I know magic criticals are overpowered inflicting devastating damage and can be ludicrisly common wih the right buffs/gear.
The thing is though that with no buffs/gear skill critical rates seem stupidly commmon which severely affects olympiad and regulaer pvp.
For example skillcrit rate is based on str, a +7 str (with armor) gladiator skillcrits about 1/4, same with TH/HE. Dark elf classes crit even more, its waaay too common to get crit for 6k damage from a backstab off an abysswalker.... that's 1 shot to almost any class.
Perhaps we need a new skill/buff that reduces your chances to suffer being critically hit.
On the one hand, a lot of gear & skills are oriented toward maxing your crits, particularly for some classes. But with all the boss-drop and armor set bonuses that negate sleep/hold/poison/bleed/stun, why not something with "40% chance to avoid criticals."
Or leave melee skills at the same skill crit rate and reduce ranged skill crit rates.
I dunno if anything needs nerfing.
If the crit rate is high in pve, I'm all for that.
What we need is defense against it on the pvp side.
Is better to beef up players' defense than to nerf offense, cuz not everyone is 80/80, eh.
You don't have to be 80 for high damage. A 74 Glad or dagger can eaisly one shot my 80 mage. One of the things I hate about this game... level difference means almost nothing.
You don't have to be 80 for high damage. A 74 Glad or dagger can eaisly one shot my 80 mage. One of the things I hate about this game... level difference means almost nothing.
Yep it's not so much level difference but class,race grade and gear diff, and there's a little bit of influence with knowledge/skill
So its ok for a mage/range to one shot opponents, but not melee? It seems like people always have something to complain about. The classes can not be "balanced" its impossible with the way this game is made, when my lvl 78 duelist one hits a mage, i feel great, but then when a mage turns around and crits me for 19k its kinda of overkill, or when an archer crits me for 6k 2 times in a row, or when a dagger one shots me with mortal blow(the one that they stop getting updates at lvl 40) because every dagger stab has a "chance" to lethal shot its opponent, thats kind of rediculas to me. I constantly hear people complain about my skill crits, but remember I didnt have them till C5, but mages, and range have had crits since closed beta, so give us a break when it comes to being overpowerd.
Perhaps we need a new skill/buff that reduces your chances to suffer being critically hit.
On the one hand, a lot of gear & skills are oriented toward maxing your crits, particularly for some classes. But with all the boss-drop and armor set bonuses that negate sleep/hold/poison/bleed/stun, why not something with "40% chance to avoid criticals."
its coming in CT1:
- Song of Guardian (wc) - lowers party dmg when under critical attack
in other words lowers the damage you recieve when someone crits you.
The classes can not be "balanced" its impossible with the way this game is made, when my lvl 78 duelist one hits a mage, i feel great, but then when a mage turns around and crits me for 19k its kinda of overkill
I didnt have them till C5, but mages, and range have had crits since closed beta, so give us a break when it comes to being overpowerd.
so what? Who cares when you got the overpowered skill.
If a skill is overpowered it needs to be changed. It doesn't matter if you only got to be overpowered for just 1 day. Overpowered is overpowered.
I don't know if skill crit is overpowered. I'm not noble and in open pvp I haven't really noticed, but saying that you were overpowered before and now I get to be is -_- rediculous.
I didnt have them till C5, but mages, and range have had crits since closed beta, so give us a break when it comes to being overpowerd.
so what? Who cares when you got the overpowered skill.
If a skill is overpowered it needs to be changed. It doesn't matter if you only got to be overpowered for just 1 day. Overpowered is overpowered.
I don't know if skill crit is overpowered. I'm not noble and in open pvp I haven't really noticed, but saying that you were overpowered before and now I get to be is -_- rediculous.
so when I crit someone for 7k its overpowerd, but when a mage crits me for 10k+ its not? if your going to nerf my crits then you **** well better nerf every other crit and take away lethal chance on all dagger skills because those are more overpowered than mine. As to people saying gladis crit 1/4 chances, thats not true at all, in the last week in all the pvps ive been in (100+) ive crit 2 times, and niether of them 1 shot anyone, so to say we are overpowered is kind of overstating facts a bit.
First it was 19k, now it's 10k... so which one is it?
(the correct answer is neither, because a mage can't crit an equal level character for that much, even if you don't have resist buffs and they are fully buffed)
do you not know how to read also? I said 10k+ and if my math is correct 19k is more than 10k. Yes they can crit that much it's called being too poor to afford top gear, and only able to afford B grade jewels at 78 (**** enocomy) I have clannies who have top gear with S jewels and they still get crit for 10k+ but obviously since your not class that has less than 1k mdef with S grade jewels you wouldnt know that.
You don't have to be 80 for high damage. A 74 Glad or dagger can eaisly one shot my 80 mage. One of the things I hate about this game... level difference means almost nothing.
You mean if he EVER come close to you.... Thats what is supposed to happen in robes when a sword approaches them isn't it? On any other case its most probable that you will 1-2 shot the melee that will try to reach you.
Ok, first of all, I do have less than 1k M.Def. in S jewelry. Mages do -10 MEN... remember? I don't ever EVER get crit for 10k. I'm sorry you are in B grade at 78, get better gear like the mage that is supposed to hit you for 19k has (which didn't happen).
I want you to post a screenshot of a mage hitting you for 19k with you B jewelry on. I don't care what kind of buffs/level they are, it won't matter, because they can't hit for 19k. I'm getting tired of people coming on here and spewing out junk that isn't true.
Second of all, a Glad gets dash, if you didn't know. I see 78 Glads beat mages ALL THE TIME. And even if you don't use it, any 78 Glad can spam sonic rage and kill a mage :)
so what im getting from this thread is, its ok for dagger classes, and mage classes, and sometimes archers to have 1 shot kill skills/crits but when gladi's get it its overpowered and must be removed or nerfed.
I dont have to post a screenshot of anything, cause if I do it will just turn into "omg thats photoshopped" so its pointless, you dont belive mages can crit for that much, i know they can, oh well.
its no use in arguing, or even fighting to keep any skills gladis get, cause someone somewhere is just going to say its overpowered, and this will start all over again. I just find it funny, the first time someone got crit from a gladi there was a post saying it was overpowered, but i dont see many posts about the other classes that have 1 hit skills, and when i do, people just say thats a fact of the game and live with it, but now people are wanting gladi skill crits nerfed/removed and i havent seen anyone say its just a fact of the game and live with it, its all "yea it has to be nerfed/removed" or "ive never been hit by a gladi, or seen a gladi hit anyone but if peole say they are overpowered then we must nerf them, or remove thier crits"
so what im getting from this thread is, its ok for dagger classes, and mage classes, and sometimes archers to have 1 shot kill skills/crits but when gladi's get it its overpowered and must be removed or nerfed.
Thats basically the same reason for Frenzy nerfing. OMG, a melee can do more dmg, NERF!
do you not know how to read also? I said 10k+ and if my math is correct 19k is more than 10k. Yes they can crit that much it's called being too poor to afford top gear, and only able to afford B grade jewels at 78 (**** enocomy) I have clannies who have top gear with S jewels and they still get crit for 10k+ but obviously since your not class that has less than 1k mdef with S grade jewels you wouldnt know that.
Only thing I can say is QQ more.
If you are not geared for END-GAME PvP, then you should not be trying to get involved in END-GAME PvP if you are going to do anything but complain about it. End-Game buffs are also a factor. Maybe you should drop some of your melee buffs and get some more resist buffs so that you won't be so rediculously crappy in PvP...
Impossible to crit for 20k even if u wear BO . You must have been gloomed/surrendered had no buffs and the other guy had all the possible boosts in this game and i still doubt.
pretty sure i've been hit for over 10k damage but don't think i've ever seen a 20k crit
my set up is full +3/4 tat and the guy who hit me had +4 arcana and full buffs (BD, PP, SE) i got hit with surrender and vortex and was unbuffed
If you don't want to post a screenshot, then post a replay. Don't forget that when you do it, to not take any magic resist buffs and no M.Def. buffs, because those don't exist in your little world :)
I was thinking more importantly the olympiad when gladiators 1 shot most classes regularly, as well as being totally overpowered in there.
............................dot dot dot
if you balance for olympiad then you are a fool. Olympiad is broken. Until they make it class specific, it will ALWAYS be broken.
I was Magic Crit by ViveQuebec on Lionna for 22k, I had jewels on and full buffs, I was in my 70s on a Bounty Hunter. Please stop saying it cant happen. If you want to SEE it happen, watch Neozse on Lionna sometime. Worlds most dangerous Sorc(Valakas, Antharas, WM10+WM). Volcano is quite nasty.
For the CT1 update, effects that minimize the critical damage on Heavy Armor Mastery were added, as well as increased shield defense ability and the success rate of defense by improving the shield mastery skill.
Do you have the AoE nuke Gnata(you're lvl 80 after all)? Seen the pictures of Nestia killing high, endgame people in sieges by the dozens with it?
1 person killing 10+ at the same time is the most overpowered thing there is. Even with no crits, it is still devastating. Skill crits can never compare to that, EVER.
Also, if you actually read what Canto wrote, you'd notice he talked about _2_ different persons. One crit him for 22k, the other just about crits 9/10 of his nukes. Both are overpowered to the core.
If you don't want to post a screenshot, then post a replay. Don't forget that when you do it, to not take any magic resist buffs and no M.Def. buffs, because those don't exist in your little world :)
It seems like all you do is ignore all the people that have said crits can get that high, and go straight to insults and denial. I don't have BD, SWS, healer, resists all at my disposal, I pvp with what I have, which is usually just clan hall buffs.
I dont like gettng magic crit, but oh well ive learned to live with it, ive also learned to live with daggers and their lethals, but it seems to me alot of the L2 community has also learned to live with these, but when another class gets a chance to do the same thing..."oh no thats got to go, our over powered classes cant have someone that can kill us ranged classes up close" it seems to me that the people that are complaining about skill crits need to learn how to kite, and play range classes, because you should be able to kill me before i can kill you, and learn to live with the changes in the game.
chance for them to 1 crit u is 1/25 let say. for a nuker at lv 80 you can kill any lv 74 toons with 3-4 shots. so you're so better off. anyway nukers deal too much damage in this game. speed + high damage = win,
"In the case of destroyers, we have seen huge differences in the results than we originally had intended. This is due to increased PC ability and strengthened buffs.
The skills given for lowering the threat is intentionally creating threat itself and is being used for hunting. As a result, we have changed the relevant effects."
First it was 19k, now it's 10k... so which one is it?
(the correct answer is neither, because a mage can't crit an equal level character for that much, even if you don't have resist buffs and they are fully buffed)
Actually, it's both. I am a mage and I have done both crits. TYVM. Next?
That's great, and I get hit for 20k in no grade, what's your point? Everything is POSSIBLE to do, but don't come here and complain about mage damage when you don't run in with resists, and you have B grade jewelry at 78.... that's dumb.
10k is possible on an equal level if you are fully buffed and they are not, of course. 19k however, isn't. That means your regular hits would hit for almost 5000. Is anyone thinking about this? 5000 on a regular shot? HELLO!?
I'm not going to deny that they don't crit hard, because they do. And I'm not going to argue that close range skills critical too much, because they don't at the moment... though I would like a damage reduction of all the high hitting classes (mages, Glads, archers, daggers, ect.) in PvP because I hate getting one shotted, as I'm sure many of you do. I also don't like the fact most things that help against mages come at 76+, but if they are there... then they are there. I'm sorry you don't have them, that isn't my fault, its yours.
I don't have access to empower and dances and S grade and acumen, I PvP with what I have and I don't do any damage, boost mages! :eek:
I think the mechanic needs tweaking. Mage crits originally were given 4x damage because of their rarity. With proper buffs+gear this is no longer the case.
Then again, with stacked 76+ resistance buffs maybe it isn't too bad.
It's a crit. And to sit there and tell me, who has done it - and no - not on a no grade, stop being stupid - that it isn't possible... just because YOU haven't experienced doesn't mean IT HASN'T HAPPENED.
<--76 necro, 75 sps, I also have acess to a 77 storm screamer.
It doesnt matter what level you are, you dont do 5k dmg normal hits on s jewels. If you somehow hit someone for 5k, they were likely NOT in s jewels, and likely had no resist buffs whatsoever. So what does that have to do with anything? If you're pvping without resist buffs and in lowbie jewels a mage is going to 1 shot you, just like if you took your armor off, a glad would 1 shot you. What does that have to do with anything? Mages do loldmg with resist buffs. You're dumb.
Not calling her a liar, just think she is exaggerating too much. I have a high... in fact higher level mage, and I have two, and I never get that high.
I dont have all those super bufs.My chars lvl are 6x.
What im sure is that my profet do crit every 5 hits and my sorc do single one in an hour or two. That is for self buffed PvE char. Even if my sorc do crapy mele he do more crit with mele than with nuke.
<--76 necro, 75 sps, I also have acess to a 77 storm screamer.
It doesnt matter what level you are, you dont do 5k dmg normal hits on s jewels. If you somehow hit someone for 5k, they were likely NOT in s jewels, and likely had no resist buffs whatsoever. So what does that have to do with anything? If you're pvping without resist buffs and in lowbie jewels a mage is going to 1 shot you, just like if you took your armor off, a glad would 1 shot you. What does that have to do with anything? Mages do loldmg with resist buffs. You're dumb.
You know you could have left out the name calling and had an intelligent conversation. I don't even KNOW you - and I can tell I don't want to. I fail to see how people can't have a conversation without resorting to name calling and attempting to put people down in a feeble effort to bolster themselves.
Good luck with that - you're failing miserably, btw.
I love how nukers are so quick to throw out the "use resist buffs" line... I wonder how many of them actually stop to remember that surrenders REMOVE resist buffs AND make you weaker towards that element... Resist buffs are pretty useless against a nuker with any kind of brain.
Nukers are pretty much out of control with the speed at which they can shell out high damage, without even considering crits.
<--76 necro, 75 sps, I also have acess to a 77 storm screamer.
It doesnt matter what level you are, you dont do 5k dmg normal hits on s jewels. If you somehow hit someone for 5k, they were likely NOT in s jewels, and likely had no resist buffs whatsoever.
It's rare, but not impossible with extreme endgame buffs. 78 Stormscreamer with +3 arcana mace, major arcana set, emp3/zerk2/mystic/magnus/arcane roar/arcane power/+4 int/hero zerk has 6700 matk
wind vortex with 6700 matk against a target with s grade jewels+3 plus magic barrier plus clan mdef passive plus warding (let's say ca. 1500 mdef) would do
sqrt(6700/1500)*9.1*140 = 2692 damage
times 2 for blessed sps, and you have your 5k+ damage
I've been vortex crit plenty of times for 10k+ damage, with s-grade jewels and buffs, etc. Hell, mages dont need to crit tbh. Nukers can cast so fast that even 2k dmg every 3 seconds is more than most people can put up with unless they spam pots nonstop.
They really need to rework Surrenders and Vortex's. The two SHOULD NOT STACK.
Surrender to ____ = -30% resistance to ____
_________ Vortex = -20% resistance to ____
Resist ___________ = +30% resistance to _____
Elemental Protection = +30% Fire Resist, +20% Wind/Water/Earth Resist
Even if you have Resist _____ and Elemental Protection theres a dilema... Surrenders completely remove your Resist buff while giving you a debuff which cancels out your elemental protection resistance to that type, and then you get nailed with a vortex so youre really screwed.
1 debuff completely destroys 2... thats stupid. The vortex debuff should overwrite the surrender debuff.
Some changes that will help...
Starting a lvl 70 you will gain more stats per lvl than you do now. I.e. you will gain more mdef, pdef, accuracy, evasion, etc. than you do now.
Elemental Resist buffs are reduced in effectiveness 30% -> 20%. However Resists are now additive instead of multiplicative. Eg. Resist Fire 20% + Elemental Protection 30% = 50% Resist Fire.
Also... I have a Gladiator sub. While a Glads skill crits are very beefy, theyre no more beefy than a nukers mage crits. A Gladiator burns through MP way faster than a nuker, has to charge up skills, etc. What does a nuker have to do? Nothing but spam F1. gg.
<--76 necro, 75 sps, I also have acess to a 77 storm screamer.
It doesnt matter what level you are, you dont do 5k dmg normal hits on s jewels. If you somehow hit someone for 5k, they were likely NOT in s jewels, and likely had no resist buffs whatsoever.
It's rare, but not impossible with extreme endgame buffs. 78 Stormscreamer with +3 arcana mace, major arcana set, emp3/zerk2/mystic/magnus/arcane roar/arcane power/+4 int/hero zerk has 6700 matk
wind vortex with 6700 matk against a target with s grade jewels+3 plus magic barrier plus clan mdef passive plus warding (let's say ca. 1500 mdef) would do
sqrt(6700/1500)*9.1*140 = 2692 damage
times 2 for blessed sps, and you have your 5k+ damage
Where did you get those numbers? Something seems fishy about that...
I put in a few numbers that I usually have, which is with basic buffs I have around 2k M.Atk., and another player would have around 900 M.Def.
Now if we plug those numbers in... sqrt(2000/900)*9.1*140 = 1899 damage. Now, add in the surrender first... that's another 30%, giving 2468. I don't know about the rest of you mages out there, but I don't know how to hit for almost 2500 on a vortex to another S grader without spiritshots :confused: Seems a little high to me
In fact, I just tested it, and the formula said I would hit about 300% harder than I did. Not to say it's 300% off, those are just my results. My guess is there is a piece to the puzzle missing
And Valdor, please make a mage and 1v1 me and only press F1, I bet you lose.
The point I made is that more goes into a Glads crits than a Nukers. A Glad has to charge up his skills before he can even use them to crit, a Nuker can just use his nuke and crit. Also, Glads dont have debuffs that would render 2 buffs useless. But nice attempt at trying to give a smart remark, gg
The point I made is that more goes into a Glads crits than a Nukers. A Glad has to charge up his skills before he can even use them to crit, a Nuker can just use his nuke and crit. Also, Glads dont have debuffs that would render 2 buffs useless. But nice attempt at trying to give a smart remark, gg
No, the point you made was that a mage only has to press one button to win, and I told you that you are wrong. Just because you see people press one button and win, doesn't mean you have to do that to win against a good player. A Glad can hold one button down and beat a mage in a shoot out easily with sonic rage, but if the mage is good, they will keep them at max range as much as they can. A dagger can kill someone by running up and using backstab once, but does that mean it's easy to play a dagger? No way!
Your argument of that you need to charge up before you use your skills is stupid. A lot of classes have things they have to do before they do their main attacks. A mage needs to usually surrender and slow for a Glad, so they can kite them. A dagger has their 76+ toggles and some have might mortal. Destroyer has things like rage, zealot, frenzy that they have to turn on, and you have them too. If you play a Glad and you aren't happy with your class, I suggest your find another game, because you can't get any better than the FoTM class for Interlude :)
If you want to nerf skill crit rate it's ok with me, but don't change the dwarfs...they almost never crit because of the low crit rate that blunt gives.
<--76 necro, 75 sps, I also have acess to a 77 storm screamer.
It doesnt matter what level you are, you dont do 5k dmg normal hits on s jewels. If you somehow hit someone for 5k, they were likely NOT in s jewels, and likely had no resist buffs whatsoever.
It's rare, but not impossible with extreme endgame buffs. 78 Stormscreamer with +3 arcana mace, major arcana set, emp3/zerk2/mystic/magnus/arcane roar/arcane power/+4 int/hero zerk has 6700 matk
wind vortex with 6700 matk against a target with s grade jewels+3 plus magic barrier plus clan mdef passive plus warding (let's say ca. 1500 mdef) would do
sqrt(6700/1500)*9.1*140 = 2692 damage
times 2 for blessed sps, and you have your 5k+ damage
Where did you get those numbers? Something seems fishy about that...
I put in a few numbers that I usually have, which is with basic buffs I have around 2k M.Atk., and another player would have around 900 M.Def.
Now if we plug those numbers in... sqrt(2000/900)*9.1*140 = 1899 damage. Now, add in the surrender first... that's another 30%, giving 2468. I don't know about the rest of you mages out there, but I don't know how to hit for almost 2500 on a vortex to another S grader without spiritshots :confused: Seems a little high to me
In fact, I just tested it, and the formula said I would hit about 300% harder than I did. Not to say it's 300% off, those are just my results. My guess is there is a piece to the puzzle missing
And Valdor, please make a mage and 1v1 me and only press F1, I bet you lose.
u put mdef INSIDE sqrt? omg. thats terribly wrong. no wonder damage is way off
im 99% positive Magical damage = Skill Power*91*Sqrt(MAttack*[2 for sps/4 for bsps])/Mdef
78 SH with arcana mace +3/s robe set/+4int+empower3+dance of mystic+zerk2+magnus chant+heroic berserker+arcane power+clan empowerment lvl 1 = 7069 M.atk.
casts surrender to wind and wind vortex to a 75 human fighter class with full 78 prophet buffs+maj jewels. [M.def = 676]
well i got hit for 2k from a lvl 78 sh with only emp and zerk the other day (i was unbuffed +3 and 4 tat)
so once you start throwing in pow and dances and crap you will get some pretty high damage but like i said i don't think i've seen a 20k crit yet
well i got hit for 2k from a lvl 78 sh with only emp and zerk the other day (i was unbuffed +3 and 4 tat)
so once you start throwing in pow and dances and crap you will get some pretty high damage but like i said i don't think i've seen a 20k crit yet
pow sux. serious dawgz roll with magnus now sis :p
ps: how about a surrender to wind, wind vortex with full effect and then wind vortex again. maybe can break 5k dmg. would be fun to try to reproduce it in arena
u put mdef INSIDE sqrt? omg. thats terribly wrong. no wonder damage is way off
im 99% positive Magical damage = Skill Power*91*Sqrt(MAttack*[2 for sps/4 for bsps])/Mdef
Yes you're right, the mdef should probably be outside the sqrt (otherwise damage without sps is too high).
Still, the good old prima guide even says
magical attack damage
(square root of [attacker's matk/defender's mdef])*[skill's power]x91
which gives even more ridiculous magic damage :)
The formula you mention above, sqrt(matk)/mdef*power*91, looks correct (at least the damage I calculated for my nukes seems to be close to what I remember from in game, I am at work right now and cannot compare exact numbers). Guess I should not have trusted old hand-scribbled notes lol.
Well using that, you would have to have 14581 M.Atk. to hit for 2.5k (which would be 5k with shots) on a regular 800 M.Def. target, and that is including using surrender first.
yea, the way magical damage is calculated has changed since then.
@gna: well i think the guy who said that he got crit for 20k said that he doesnt have the money for s grade jewels or the luxury for nice endgame buffs/resists. so he might roll with black ore or maj set with lets say SE buffs and an alacrity pot. i showed in my post that u can crit someone like that for 20k. if you are looking to do that on a full s grade with at least 52 prophet buffs, u will NOT. thats for sure. hope everything is clear now
If you play a Glad and you aren't happy with your class, I suggest your find another game, because you can't get any better than the FoTM class for Interlude :)
Where in my post did I say anything about being unhappy with my classes? I play a HK/Glad and love both classes and neither one is overpowered. I love how you play a nuker/necro and propose to talk about FotM toons... What are you gonna complain about next? Anchor not I win enough for you?
or when a dagger one shots me with mortal blow(the one that they stop getting updates at lvl 40) because every dagger stab has a "chance" to lethal shot its opponent, thats kind of rediculas to me.
are you an idiot?
First: mortal blow ends at 36, not 40.
Second: Lethals only apply 2nd and 3rd class change skills.
Third: Skill crts only apply to 2nd and 3rd class change skills.
There is no way Mortal blow did that much dmg to you..its not that powerful!
If you play a Glad and you aren't happy with your class, I suggest your find another game, because you can't get any better than the FoTM class for Interlude :)
Where in my post did I say anything about being unhappy with my classes? I play a HK/Glad and love both classes and neither one is overpowered. I love how you play a nuker/necro and propose to talk about FotM toons... What are you gonna complain about next? Anchor not I win enough for you?
Why should I complain? I barely ever play this game anymore :p I assumed you were not happy with your class because according to you, they are so much worse than a mage is. And by the way, yes, they are a FoTM class, kind of tied with Destroyer at the moment.
As for my classes... I'll repost AGAIN why my classes are the way they are.
How many times do I have to explain this? I went Spellsinger in open beta. I got my subclass in C3, and went Necro because I was poor. I was using a +5 Homu sword at 75. I went Tyrant right when C5 came out, but instead of leveling it, took my Muse to 80 instead. Got to about level 60 before Interlude hit.
Of course we all know and Elf Wizard was so overpowered in open beta. Before C2 hit I was already 5x (was C2 when people discovered cancel/aura flare, or was it C3?). If you want to go mage to save gear/money, but still be able to solo, and you are a Spellsinger, your choices are... Necro, Sorcerer, Spellhowler. Can't go Spellhowler, they are Dark Elves. I wanted to go Sorcerer, but it ends up I forgot about the "like" classes, and you can't do that either, so I went Necro.
There is a HUGE difference between playing a FoTM class, and rerolling to one. I never said you rerolled to one, I just said you played it. If I came on before cancel and aura flare got nerfed, and complained about my Spellsinger, I would hope everyone here would make fun of me.
Oh and by the way, a Glad and a Tyrant are the same idea. Would I sit here and argue against my own class without a good reason? No
I've been hit for 18k by a sorc, on the opposing side, had that 77 prophet buff that increase matk, prophecy of water, zerk, bd and all the other buffs.
I think one thing we need to take into account is that elf classes as well as all mage classes get passive mdef skills, unlike most melee classes(excluding elves). To say TSS is a bit too powerful is kinda outlandish. Yes it hurts, but its suppose to is it not? I think people are here whining for no reason at all. For a mage to crit me every 15 hits should be okay, being as though they're paper cannons, need to keep distance and arent good at anything else except nuking, lol?
Tyrants can do the same thing as Glads, its just that they're far more scarce so no one notices it.
I've been hit for 18k by a sorc, on the opposing side, had that 77 prophet buff that increase matk, prophecy of water, zerk, bd and all the other buffs.
I think one thing we need to take into account is that elf classes as well as all mage classes get passive mdef skills, unlike most melee classes(excluding elves). To say TSS is a bit too powerful is kinda outlandish. Yes it hurts, but its suppose to is it not? I think people are here whining for no reason at all. For a mage to crit me every 15 hits should be okay, being as though they're paper cannons, need to keep distance and arent good at anything else except nuking, lol?
Tyrants can do the same thing as Glads, its just that they're far more scarce so no one notices it.
First of all, Hi Coldfyre <3
Second of all - courtesy of Hughy aka Mesphito...
A 19k crit on s grade is entirely possible, but not very likely.
The damage formula nukes is:
damage = (sqrt(matk)*skill power*91)/mdef of target
debuffs like surrenders, glooms, vortexes increase damage by a factor of 1.3, 1.3 and 1.2 respectively. Gloom actually lowers the targets m.def by 23%, this is essentially the same as increasing the nukers damage by 30%.
Therefore, if a target was gloomed, surrendered and vortexed, damage would be 2.028x (1.3*1.3*1.2) more than if the target was unbuffed.
damage = 2.028 * [(sqrt(matk)*skill power*91)/mdef of target]
Bsps increases the nukers m.atk by 4 (sqrt of 4, is 2, which is why bsps doubles your damage), so with bsps the damage formula would be:
damage = 2.028 * [(sqrt(matk*4)*skill power*91)/mdef of target]
For a crit to do the most damage (not including fusion/lvl 80) it would have to be done with a wind vortex which has 140 power. There are screenshots floating around of sh's with 7k m.atk also, so we can use those values.
damage = 2.028 * [(sqrt(7000*4)*140*91)/mdef of target]
people are saying a 19k crit on s grade jewels isn't possible which means the damage of a regular nuke would have to be 19000/4 which is 4750
4750 = 2.028 * [(sqrt(7000*4)*140*91)/mdef of target]
rearranging you get:
mdef of target = 2.028 * [(sqrt(7000*4)*140*91)/4750]
mdef of target = 910
That means that a 19k crit from a wind vortex from an sh with 7k m.atk on a target that is gloomed/surrendered/vortex'd is entirely possible on someone with s jewels however unlikely it is.
Something else to think about is the damage a CDL crit would do vs a gloom+vortex'd target. I'm not sure if it would be higher than a wind vortex crit but it would be right up there.
Forgive the lack of spaces - seems it does that when quoting. He can't post on forums for some reason - so he asked me to post it.
I've been hit for 18k by a sorc, on the opposing side, had that 77 prophet buff that increase matk, prophecy of water, zerk, bd and all the other buffs.
I think one thing we need to take into account is that elf classes as well as all mage classes get passive mdef skills, unlike most melee classes(excluding elves). To say TSS is a bit too powerful is kinda outlandish. Yes it hurts, but its suppose to is it not? I think people are here whining for no reason at all. For a mage to crit me every 15 hits should be okay, being as though they're paper cannons, need to keep distance and arent good at anything else except nuking, lol?
Tyrants can do the same thing as Glads, its just that they're far more scarce so no one notices it.
melee skill crits like TSS and the tyrant Force Blaster/Flurry are STR dependent. this means (with the help of blah) that basically since human Str and Orc Str are the SAME BASE VALUE of 40, the only reason you see Glads spamming TSS faster than orcs is because of Dex. the Reuse base delay is LOWER with higher Dex. the amount of time you crit is STR dependent, but the speed with which you fire off skills is Dex dependent. shooting more means POSSIBLY CRITTING MORE! so the Glad will always end up nuking better than the Tyrant, but the Tyrant will always closecombat outdamage the Glad.
I never said TSS was overpowered, I just simply said if you are getting hit for 19k, you are not 78 in S grade. Thanks for finding that formula, it seems to work correctly.
However, you can't count gloom + surrender + vortex, because that is now two people attacking you. If you do what he did again with just surrender and vortex, you come out with about 700 M.Def. Most 76 classes that I looked at have 710+ M.Def. with +0 S jewelry.
Glads dont have stacking debuffs to make him hit you harder, now does he? Also, a Glads skills are never released at full potential unless he's fully charged, and when doing chain combos his skills power have diminishing returns.
Glads dont have stacking debuffs to make him hit you harder, now does he? Also, a Glads skills are never released at full potential unless he's fully charged, and when doing chain combos his skills power have diminishing returns.
Uh what debuffs? The only debuffs a tyrant can give you are stun and slow. Their other skills are just buffs to themselves, not debuffs...
Glads dont have stacking debuffs to make him hit you harder, now does he? Also, a Glads skills are never released at full potential unless he's fully charged, and when doing chain combos his skills power have diminishing returns.
Uh what debuffs? The only debuffs a tyrant can give you are stun and slow. Their other skills are just buffs to themselves, not debuffs...
I was making reference to the argument earlier comparing Glads and nukers. Nukers can make people weaker to their attacks, whereas Glads cant.
I never said TSS was overpowered, I just simply said if you are getting hit for 19k, you are not 78 in S grade. Thanks for finding that formula, it seems to work correctly.
However, you can't count gloom + surrender + vortex, because that is now two people attacking you. If you do what he did again with just surrender and vortex, you come out with about 700 M.Def. Most 76 classes that I looked at have 710+ M.Def. with +0 S jewelry.
lol wow split hairs more? I'm hughy btw, the person who proved that a 19k wind vortex crit is entirely possible on s grade jewels. If you're gonna QQ about the target being gloomed go for it, but there are far more things you could pick to question the validity of what I said, i.e. the fact that you need 4+ support classes buffing you to get the m.atk I used in the formula.
Either way, you're wrong. A 19k crit is possible on s grade jewels (with mbarrier+zerk even) so you really shouldn't talk anymore but just to shut you up I'll throw out another incredibly unlikely scenario where a 19k+ crit is possible:
A sorc cancels your mbarrier, but not your zerk, surrenders, crit vortexes.
On a 78 gladiator with +3 tat jewels that gives him 624 mdef.
Again, easily possible for a 19k crit, and this fits in nicely with your new ridiculous rule of having only 1 player debuff.
If you still have doubts feel free to voice them so I can shut you down again =D
Just fyi, I'm a storm screamer with a valakas necklace and wm augment. Earlier today I critted a lvl 76+ tyrant in s grade for 15k damage, that was with out POW. Yeah, it's not 19k, but it's pretty close.
I also play a 78 tyrant and I can tell you from experience that as a nuker it seems like you get critted by glads/tyrants a lot more than it seems you crit people on a tyrant/glad.
I also agree with the thread starter, in that, unbuffed glads/tyrants simply crit TOO much. My main is a hero warlock and if I get crit in olympiad by a glad it does 5k damage. It's just dumb.
There should be buffs that increase the amount of skill crits so that glads are tyrants improve just like every other class with end-game buffs. As it stands now, glads/tyrants are almost uncontested with just prophet/ch buffs vs other people similarly buffed, but when you throw end-game buffs into the equation they pale in comparison to most classes. If NCSoft was to add end-game buffs that increase skill crit rate and possibly even skill crit damage and then decrease the base skill crit rate the game would be a little bit fairer imo.
I wasn't the one splitting hairs. I said 19k crits basically don't happen, and everyone else went to prove me wrong. Do you include hex and block shield when you see how much a TSS can do normally? I know I wouldn't
I don't see how having one player debuff is a rule. If that were the case I would could say Dwarfs are overpowered. I can't kill one when a Necro debuffs me :mad:
I'm just upset that you took a simple thing I pointed out, and then attacked me with insults. Kind of childish :( Now go ahead and "shut me down" again. I need to go get on my mage and go out and PvP by one shotting every class in the game with my easy to get 19k crits.
Your buddy KoreaPL did the same thing - where was your concern when he attacked me with the name calling? Not that I particularly care, but it's just funny you are QQing about it.
And btw, you said these crits DON'T happen. In a reply to me, no less, where you implied I was dumb. But I left that part out. We can't have people think you are a hypocrite about the insulting people thing...
10k is possible on an equal level if you are fully buffed and they are not, of course. 19k however, isn't. That means your regular hits would hit for almost 5000. Is anyone thinking about this? 5000 on a regular shot? HELLO!?
You said 19k crits aren't possibly. Nice backpeddling though. You do a better job than Sharlanna. B+ for effort
First it was 19k, now it's 10k... so which one is it?
(the correct answer is neither, because a mage can't crit an equal level character for that much, even if you don't have resist buffs and they are fully buffed)
19k isn't possible on a toon with s grade jewels but 10k very much is.
He said 10k+ btw
Also on topic there is nothing wrong with the skill crit rate- it's perfectly fine as it is. I think I read the mathematician extrordainaire that is Diegeo Vargas over on blah state that a Gladi with 46 or 47 STR had a skill crit rate of 23%, less than 1/4. I could be a little off on the STR stat but if I am it isn't by much.
Show me your normal hits for 5k on another S grader in +3 S jewelry please.
How dumb are you? I mean really. Do you read what is there or just w/e it is you want to be there?
Nobody claimed there were 19k crits flying around on 76+ toons in +3 s grade gear.
Only 2tfm said that it had happened to him while wearing BO jewels at lvl 78 - probably with CH buffs I'll assume.
I've hit 78+ toons with top jewels for 11k on my 77 SH - I'd imagine that could climb quite a bit on a similarly buffed toon with vastly inferior jewels.
I've been hit for 18k by a sorc, on the opposing side, had that 77 prophet buff that increase matk, prophecy of water, zerk, bd and all the other buffs.
I think one thing we need to take into account is that elf classes as well as all mage classes get passive mdef skills, unlike most melee classes(excluding elves). To say TSS is a bit too powerful is kinda outlandish. Yes it hurts, but its suppose to is it not? I think people are here whining for no reason at all. For a mage to crit me every 15 hits should be okay, being as though they're paper cannons, need to keep distance and arent good at anything else except nuking, lol?
Tyrants can do the same thing as Glads, its just that they're far more scarce so no one notices it.
First of all, Hi Coldfyre <3
Second of all - courtesy of Hughy aka Mesphito...
A 19k crit on s grade is entirely possible, but not very likely.
The damage formula nukes is:
damage = (sqrt(matk)*skill power*91)/mdef of target
debuffs like surrenders, glooms, vortexes increase damage by a factor of 1.3, 1.3 and 1.2 respectively. Gloom actually lowers the targets m.def by 23%, this is essentially the same as increasing the nukers damage by 30%.
Therefore, if a target was gloomed, surrendered and vortexed, damage would be 2.028x (1.3*1.3*1.2) more than if the target was unbuffed.
damage = 2.028 * [(sqrt(matk)*skill power*91)/mdef of target]
Bsps increases the nukers m.atk by 4 (sqrt of 4, is 2, which is why bsps doubles your damage), so with bsps the damage formula would be:
damage = 2.028 * [(sqrt(matk*4)*skill power*91)/mdef of target]
For a crit to do the most damage (not including fusion/lvl 80) it would have to be done with a wind vortex which has 140 power. There are screenshots floating around of sh's with 7k m.atk also, so we can use those values.
damage = 2.028 * [(sqrt(7000*4)*140*91)/mdef of target]
people are saying a 19k crit on s grade jewels isn't possible which means the damage of a regular nuke would have to be 19000/4 which is 4750
4750 = 2.028 * [(sqrt(7000*4)*140*91)/mdef of target]
rearranging you get:
mdef of target = 2.028 * [(sqrt(7000*4)*140*91)/4750]
mdef of target = 910
That means that a 19k crit from a wind vortex from an sh with 7k m.atk on a target that is gloomed/surrendered/vortex'd is entirely possible on someone with s jewels however unlikely it is.
Something else to think about is the damage a CDL crit would do vs a gloom+vortex'd target. I'm not sure if it would be higher than a wind vortex crit but it would be right up there.
Forgive the lack of spaces - seems it does that when quoting. He can't post on forums for some reason - so he asked me to post it.
i fail to see how y=x/1,23 <=> y*1,3=x
maybe i just suck at math.
putting more than one ppl debuffing or using luck based debuffs like cancel is nonsence. the only "legit" way to do 19k+ dmg in s grade is to go into my example and add a heroic grandeur into the equation and there u got it.
melee skill crits like TSS and the tyrant Force Blaster/Flurry are STR dependent. this means (with the help of blah) that basically since human Str and Orc Str are the SAME BASE VALUE of 40, the only reason you see Glads spamming TSS faster than orcs is because of Dex. the Reuse base delay is LOWER with higher Dex. the amount of time you crit is STR dependent, but the speed with which you fire off skills is Dex dependent. shooting more means POSSIBLY CRITTING MORE! so the Glad will always end up nuking better than the Tyrant, but the Tyrant will always closecombat outdamage the Glad.
flurry?fluffy? what
dex generally means [censored]. plus tyrants have boost atk speed passive.in the end they have more atk speed with just fist fury, no puma. they do their skills at least 25% faster than a glad. i dont know where u've seen glads spam tss faster or whatever. tyrant nukes faster than glad and equally as hard. he also outdamages glad in closecombat most of the time. to me he is overpowered.
Woah now, calm down people.... I never attacked anyone here.
First of all, I did read that the guy in B jewelry got hit for 19k, and seeing as he is in B, that might be possible. That is why I stated:
I never said TSS was overpowered, I just simply said if you are getting hit for 19k, you are not 78 in S grade.
I never attacked you or meant to imply you are dumb, and if it seemed like I did I am sorry. When someone pointed out we were calling you a liar, I tried to defend you there with:
Not calling her a liar, just think she is exaggerating too much.
And that statement is true to me, false to you, and is the whole reason we had the discussion. I see no reason to hate each other or call each other names over something like that.
I don't know who KoreaPL is, but he is not my buddy. I didn't defend you because when I made my points YOU called ME stupid. If you would have just had the discussion with my, without all the hostility, I probably would have said something is someone went off on you.
I wasn't the one splitting hairs. I said 19k crits basically don't happen, and everyone else went to prove me wrong. Do you include hex and block shield when you see how much a TSS can do normally? I know I wouldn't
I don't see how having one player debuff is a rule. If that were the case I would could say Dwarfs are overpowered. I can't kill one when a Necro debuffs me :mad:
I'm just upset that you took a simple thing I pointed out, and then attacked me with insults. Kind of childish :( Now go ahead and "shut me down" again. I need to go get on my mage and go out and PvP by one shotting every class in the game with my easy to get 19k crits.
I agree that 19k don't happen OFTEN, but you seem to be under the delusion that they CAN'T happen EVER which is not true. If you read both of my posts I said 19k crits are very unlikely but they are still possible on s grade jewels. I didn't say you can go around critting everyone for 19k either, so don't try to misinterpret what I said just b/c you are wrong.
i fail to see how y=x/1,23 <=> y*1,3=x
maybe i just suck at math.
putting more than one ppl debuffing or using luck based debuffs like cancel is nonsence. the only "legit" way to do 19k+ dmg in s grade is to go into my example and add a heroic grandeur into the equation and there u got it.
If m.def decreases by 23% you would have 77% of your original mdef when gloomed.
1/.77 = 1.3
That's why gloom increases damage by 30%. Also, it's hardly inconceivable to have a necro gloom a target before you attack. To get the buffs required to dish out a 19k crit, you're probably going to be in a top nuker party. If there was also a necro in that party he would be casting gloom the same way BD's sometimes hex people for archer groups.
Either way, someone else complained about the target being gloomed before you so I threw out another way a 19k crit was possible. A sorc cancelling mbarrier, but not zerk, surrender, crit on fire vortex. That could easily crit for 19k if the target had no resist buffs.
Your grandeur idea would probably work too, so yet again, we have another way a 19k crit is possible on s grade.
And fyi, if someone said a 10k tss crit was impossible on robes or something, yes, I would use hex/block shield/grandeur/cancel to disprove that. If you make a statement i.e. a 19k crit is impossible on s jewels, you are saying exactly that. That it is impossible no matter what the circumstance. I simply found a circumstance where it was possible and people start crying about using a necro to debuff... Last I checked, people said a 19k crit was impossible, not that it was impossible with only 1 person. But w/e lol...
Honestly, who cares if you "Can" crit for 19k or not? 11k is enough to one-shot 90% of the classes. Are you guys trying to find out how much more xp you can get on an overhit? I will give you a clue, you dont get jack.
If m.def decreases by 23% you would have 77% of your original mdef when gloomed.
1/.77 = 1.3
yeap you're right. i multiplied mdef by 1,23 instead of multiplying it by (1-0,23). my bad my bad.
And fyi, if someone said a 10k tss crit was impossible on robes or something, yes, I would use hex/block shield/grandeur/cancel to disprove that. If you make a statement i.e. a 19k crit is impossible on s jewels, you are saying exactly that. That it is impossible no matter what the circumstance. I simply found a circumstance where it was possible and people start crying about using a necro to debuff... Last I checked, people said a 19k crit was impossible, not that it was impossible with only 1 person. But w/e lol...
and if all else fails, there are always +25 weapons on private servers. and much more... ;)
Honestly, who cares if you "Can" crit for 19k or not? 11k is enough to one-shot 90% of the classes. Are you guys trying to find out how much more xp you can get on an overhit? I will give you a clue, you dont get jack.
So, would you include everyone having +30 jewlery and weapons too? No, I'm sure you wouldn't.
By my standards, I was correct, and by your standards, you were correct. When I said it was impossible, I assumed you would not use things that could not be casted by more than one person (except buffs of course). Where as you assumed people wouldn't be running around in +30 weapons and armor. Don't see how either of us were wrong then.
I think it's gotten to the point where you have disagreed so long you keep doing it to save face. You have been proven that it is possible - just let it go! And let's get back to important topics...
WHY DO THE PROPHETS GET NO FUSION SKILLS AND NO NEW SKILLS IN CT1??????
lol. You all seem to forget that a glad needs to be in melee range to even attempt at using TSS. Even a -WIT sh can throw 2 nukes at a glad that's running to him from 900 range. Not to mention a sps nuking for 2k with 39764536 cast speed. Now cry more for glad skill crits being overpowered.
lol. You all seem to forget that a glad needs to be in melee range to even attempt at using TSS. Even a -WIT sh can throw 2 nukes at a glad that's running to him from 900 range. Not to mention a sps nuking for 2k with 39764536 cast speed. Now cry more for glad skill crits being overpowered.
Why did you quote me? I haven't said anything about a gladiators.
dex generally means [censored]. plus tyrants have boost atk speed passive.in the end they have more atk speed with just fist fury, no puma. they do their skills at least 25% faster than a glad. i dont know where u've seen glads spam tss faster or whatever. tyrant nukes faster than glad and equally as hard. he also outdamages glad in closecombat most of the time. to me he is overpowered.
Sorry but do you even own or play a Glad? Even when the Tyrant has higher atk speed, the Gladiator will refresh faster then a tyrant.
dex generally means [censored]. plus tyrants have boost atk speed passive.in the end they have more atk speed with just fist fury, no puma. they do their skills at least 25% faster than a glad. i dont know where u've seen glads spam tss faster or whatever. tyrant nukes faster than glad and equally as hard. he also outdamages glad in closecombat most of the time. to me he is overpowered.
Sorry but do you even own or play a Glad? Even when the Tyrant has higher atk speed, the Gladiator will refresh faster then a tyrant.
Show me your normal hits for 5k on another S grader in +3 S jewelry please.
How dumb are you? I mean really. Do you read what is there or just w/e it is you want to be there?
Nobody claimed there were 19k crits flying around on 76+ toons in +3 s grade gear.
Only 2tfm said that it had happened to him while wearing BO jewels at lvl 78 - probably with CH buffs I'll assume.
I've hit 78+ toons with top jewels for 11k on my 77 SH - I'd imagine that could climb quite a bit on a similarly buffed toon with vastly inferior jewels.
Ok, So why is it overpowered that a fully s grade, every buff/epic jewel in the game hero with a level 10 wild magic augment can 1 shot someone in black ore jewels? A dagger user or gladiator can do that without the above.
Second, show me a screen of 7k matk without the old empower herbs (I actually have no idea if you can get 7k matk, nor do I care because it would be on an lolsh, but ive never seen over 5k without the old herbs) Ive been hit by a mage with all of the above but 1int, valakas, no hero zerk. It was nowhere near 19k, and I was zerked. I realize I have higher mdef than most classes, but I dont see 15k more dmg as being realistic.
Third, Hughy is an afk bot. Who cares what he says, I sure dont care enough to check your math. But feel free to post a screen of this 19k crit.
Who knows, though. I have boxed siren, two wild magic augments (lvl 9 passive, lvl 10 chance) and a 75 sps sub who has pow pretty often in pvp, maybe ill lvl it to 76 and try it out. Im pretty sure if I ever see anything over 10k on a crit my first thought wont be that im like totally awesome, it will be that they must have forgot to equip their jewels. (not exactly unheard of with people sharing boss jewels)
In a nutshell for those that dont want to read a long post: If a 78 hero mage with all boss jewels (including valakas- I think theres like 5 of these in all of NA? Only 1 on my server) hero zerk up, pow, toggle, a personal necro gloomer, surrender and vortex landed, in arcana robes, and willing to vortex once, then wait for it to be up again (in arcana robes) and cast it a second time to make use of the debuff CANT 1 shot someone with black ore jewels, the game is broken. I dont understand why you use that as an argument.
dex generally means [censored]. plus tyrants have boost atk speed passive.in the end they have more atk speed with just fist fury, no puma. they do their skills at least 25% faster than a glad. i dont know where u've seen glads spam tss faster or whatever. tyrant nukes faster than glad and equally as hard. he also outdamages glad in closecombat most of the time. to me he is overpowered.
Sorry but do you even own or play a Glad? Even when the Tyrant has higher atk speed, the Gladiator will refresh faster then a tyrant.
well i was talking about cast time of skills, not refresh time. but since u wanna talk about that, i doubt a 1k atk speed tyrant will refresh slower than a ~620 atk speed glad, tho i could be wrong. never played a tyrant so i could compare it with a glad.
Ok, So why is it overpowered that a fully s grade, every buff/epic jewel in the game hero with a level 10 wild magic augment can 1 shot someone in black ore jewels? A dagger user or gladiator can do that without the above.
Second, show me a screen of 7k matk without the old empower herbs (I actually have no idea if you can get 7k matk, nor do I care because it would be on an lolsh, but ive never seen over 5k without the old herbs) Ive been hit by a mage with all of the above but 1int, valakas, no hero zerk. It was nowhere near 19k, and I was zerked. I realize I have higher mdef than most classes, but I dont see 15k more dmg as being realistic.
Third, Hughy is an afk bot. Who cares what he says, I sure dont care enough to check your math. But feel free to post a screen of this 19k crit.
Who knows, though. I have boxed siren, two wild magic augments (lvl 9 passive, lvl 10 chance) and a 75 sps sub who has pow pretty often in pvp, maybe ill lvl it to 76 and try it out. Im pretty sure if I ever see anything over 10k on a crit my first thought wont be that im like totally awesome, it will be that they must have forgot to equip their jewels. (not exactly unheard of with people sharing boss jewels)
In a nutshell for those that dont want to read a long post: If a 78 hero mage with all boss jewels (including valakas- I think theres like 5 of these in all of NA? Only 1 on my server) hero zerk up, pow, toggle, a personal necro gloomer, surrender and vortex landed, in arcana robes, and willing to vortex once, then wait for it to be up again (in arcana robes) and cast it a second time to make use of the debuff CANT 1 shot someone with black ore jewels, the game is broken. I dont understand why you use that as an argument.
lol wow.
For someone who hasn't seen over 5k m.atk since old herbs and doesn't even know how a vortex works (hint: the damage increase is included on 1st vortex if it lands, welcome to C4 einstein) you sure talk big. Do you even play L2? I have over 5k m.atk in DC robes and a little under 6.5k in arcana robes. Throw in hero zerk (+500 m.atk since you probably don't know what it does) and 7k is easily possible.
Just for fun, why don't you pm some daggers from whiteorder on lionna and ask them how much mesphito crits them for and what jewels they use. Oh wait, "you don't care enough to do that."
I havent been hit by mephisto, but Neozse hits like a **** freight train. I saw a screenshot somewhere of him critting a lvl 74 tank in full +3 maj jewels for 8k THROUGH UD. And supposedly he crits like 25% with his set up
my caster crew on kain has 68% crit rate, id rather 1 shot people with our casters, its real fun when our 80 necro who sadly dosnt have the wild magic augment yet, but still has 19% crit rate, goes in and does level 80 skill at siege ^.^
dex generally means [censored]. plus tyrants have boost atk speed passive.in the end they have more atk speed with just fist fury, no puma. they do their skills at least 25% faster than a glad. i dont know where u've seen glads spam tss faster or whatever. tyrant nukes faster than glad and equally as hard. he also outdamages glad in closecombat most of the time. to me he is overpowered.
Sorry but do you even own or play a Glad? Even when the Tyrant has higher atk speed, the Gladiator will refresh faster then a tyrant.
well i was talking about cast time of skills, not refresh time. but since u wanna talk about that, i doubt a 1k atk speed tyrant will refresh slower than a ~620 atk speed glad, tho i could be wrong. never played a tyrant so i could compare it with a glad.
Gladi's get like a 50% reuse time reduction bonus as of Interlude I believe. There's a post over on blah fully detailing it but can't be bothered to dig it out lol.
Ok, So why is it overpowered that a fully s grade, every buff/epic jewel in the game hero with a level 10 wild magic augment can 1 shot someone in black ore jewels? A dagger user or gladiator can do that without the above.
The only epic jewel in the game that matters to a nuker is valakas in terms of boosting damage as it increases m.atk and m.crit rate.
The likes of a Gladi might not need all those buffs to 1 shot someone but they have to be in melee range and their skills have much less chance of critting than a nuker will.
Sometimes you get one shotted, it's a [censored] but it happens sometimes. Most of the time on my "lol sh" I could avoid the likes of TSS, not always but more often than not. One shotting anything is overpowered, it shouldn't be possible imo but what ya gonna do? You could always run with more than prophet buffs I guess.
I don't care what you've been hit for by a nuker, it's not relevant to what was said at all. I've nuked a target for 11k who was using far superior jewels than Black Ore. The 19k damage was supposedly done to a player using BO jewels which are extremely inferior to the likes of S grade, which the 11k damage was done on. whether or not it would be 19k I do not know, never had that damage done to me and have never dealt it out myself but what I do know is that it would have been a lot more than 11k had that particular target been wearing the jewels worn by the guy on the receiving end of that 19k crit.
For someone who hasn't seen over 5k m.atk since old herbs and doesn't even know how a vortex works (hint: the damage increase is included on 1st vortex if it lands, welcome to C4 einstein) you sure talk big. Do you even play L2? I have over 5k m.atk in DC robes and a little under 6.5k in arcana robes. Throw in hero zerk (+500 m.atk since you probably don't know what it does) and 7k is easily possible.
Just for fun, why don't you pm some daggers from whiteorder on lionna and ask them how much mesphito crits them for and what jewels they use. Oh wait, "you don't care enough to do that."
If its easy to get 7k matk then post a screen of it. I didnt say its not possible, I said ive never seen it, and after a quick search on blah I still havent seen it. And again, no one cares about afk bots like you or completely ridiculous scenarios that dont exist.
For someone who hasn't seen over 5k m.atk since old herbs and doesn't even know how a vortex works (hint: the damage increase is included on 1st vortex if it lands, welcome to C4 einstein) you sure talk big. Do you even play L2? I have over 5k m.atk in DC robes and a little under 6.5k in arcana robes. Throw in hero zerk (+500 m.atk since you probably don't know what it does) and 7k is easily possible.
Just for fun, why don't you pm some daggers from whiteorder on lionna and ask them how much mesphito crits them for and what jewels they use. Oh wait, "you don't care enough to do that."
If its easy to get 7k matk then post a screen of it. I didnt say its not possible, I said ive never seen it, and after a quick search on blah I still havent seen it. And again, no one cares about afk bots like you or completely ridiculous scenarios that dont exist.
lol wow you're so dumb it's just funny.
Anyone with a grade 1 reading level would know that the scenarios I talked about were ridiculous cuz I said it in my own post. Idk who you're trying to convince here, einstein, but you're not doing a very good job. The point of my post was to prove that a 19k crit was possible, which I did. Whether or not you want to accept the fact that I'm right is up to you.
I like how you skim over the rest of my post, like the lol2vortex part and how someone from hindemith is calling me an afk bot. lol what a clown.
Sry, I don't have arcana robes and my main isn't an SH so I can't get you that 7k m.atk shot but if you go to http://l2calc.l2blah.com/ you can see that it's not impossible at all.
people who believe that nukers are imba are dumb.People who think that glads arent great and better than nukers are even more noobs.The people who said that 20 k critical is common and must be nerfed are even more idiots.The glad who started the discussion about the 20 k critical and said that he crits every 1 or 2 hours with his skills deserves to be banned from l2.It is fact that 1v1 glad > nuker ,archer >nuker and dagger >nuker end game full buffs.Nuker end game full buffs has 6k hp and cp.The above poster has 855def ,less than 1k.In theory nuker may be overpowered ,but in the game when u log in they die easy.They dont crit often and dont tell me about valakas neclase ,even m crit augmentation needs luck and money lots of money.Siren and pow are lvl 78 buffs,glad dont need them to crit and archer daggers take crit buff from chars way lower in lvl.With only wm nuker crit rate is pathetic compared with glads/tyrants and archers.Archers full buffs have 500 critical which is 50 %chance to give 3k + critical to a full buffed nuker like the above.A char with cov,elemental protection ,warding and barrier will be hitted for less than 1k dmg.In group fights resist buffs ,song and dances may take nuker dmg to 300 dmg per hit.i have seen vacxe crit 20k a b grade char with backstab ,so what it was a lvl 5x char.a 5x grade glad will take 20 k dmg from a magic crit so what?A nuker full buffs can deal good dmg ,but so does archers ,daggers and glads if they are full buffed ,they dont die in 2 shots.The only good thing nuker have is range in sieges and in pvps where the fighting sides arent close together.Nukers are imba compared to summoners ,prophet ,se and some more.the same goes if we see how imba is a archer ,glad dagger compared to a nuker.
I know magic criticals are overpowered inflicting devastating damage and can be ludicrisly common wih the right buffs/gear.
The thing is though that with no buffs/gear skill critical rates seem stupidly commmon which severely affects olympiad and regulaer pvp.
For example skillcrit rate is based on str, a +7 str (with armor) gladiator skillcrits about 1/4, same with TH/HE. Dark elf classes crit even more, its waaay too common to get crit for 6k damage from a backstab off an abysswalker.... that's 1 shot to almost any class.
You are a dominator you have zero business crying about melee skill crits. Last time I checked Soul Guard was [censored] .. especially since a you can get equal or more pdef then a tank.
To the rest of you whimpering about a dagger or gladiator getting a skill crit off .. its your own fault for not keeping your distance.
Robe users in Melee Range are supposed to be dead quickly.
I know magic criticals are overpowered inflicting devastating damage and can be ludicrisly common wih the right buffs/gear.
The thing is though that with no buffs/gear skill critical rates seem stupidly commmon which severely affects olympiad and regulaer pvp.
For example skillcrit rate is based on str, a +7 str (with armor) gladiator skillcrits about 1/4, same with TH/HE. Dark elf classes crit even more, its waaay too common to get crit for 6k damage from a backstab off an abysswalker.... that's 1 shot to almost any class.
You are a dominator you have zero business crying about melee skill crits. Last time I checked Soul Guard was [censored] .. especially since a you can get equal or more pdef then a tank.
To the rest of you whimpering about a dagger or gladiator getting a skill crit off .. its your own fault for not keeping your distance.
Robe users in Melee Range are supposed to be dead quickly.
Soul Guard? LOL. Just LOL. Sure you can turn it on for a jump in pdef to get <close to> the pdef of a *real* heavy armor user...but you don't magically get the *skills* of a heavy armor user from it! (And if you think Hammer Crush is of any use, I have a bridge I would like to sell you!)
Plus your stats just do NOT come close to those of a 'fighter' class...so yeah, turn on Soul Guard...and have to turn on Soul Cry too....and watch your MP go poof in less time than it takes a Destroyer to get kited out of Frenzy...but without any of the danger that would entail.
I thought the damage was a bit ridiculous so I pm'd him to find out if he had his jewels on, turns out he was on his TH sub with stealth on. So there we have it, yet another way a 19k crit is possible.