My suggestion is, if you have a desire to roll a Sorc, do it!
The Sorc isn't a terrible toon. That said, anything you want to do with a Sorc, can be better done with other nukers... except that ole' Prominence spell.
Now if you love that spell, you'll love the Sorc, because it's Prom, Prom, Aura Burn over and over and over.
Why is the sorc supposedly so bad? I want to make one because prominence looks straight up bad [censored], but I guess I don't if they are just awful
The bad thing about a Sorc is their lack of Mana management skills. The other thing is that their AoE abilities have been nerfed when they nerfed the general AoE abilities.
However single target(solo ftw) Sorcs are deadly in PvP and PvE, but for the most part, you'll really want a 2nd account with an SE to recharge the sorc. Also since there aren't many sorcs left, who do you know that always/usually/seldom runs around with Resist Fire buff?
Whenever I see a sorcerer thread i feel compelled to post :eek:.
I'm somewhat of a sorcerer obsessed player (in terms of nukers) so I say: PLAY IT! :D
But as they said, other nukers do all that the sorcerer does + more and better. So? I don't really know, if you'll base your whole playing on how the nuke looks I have doubts it will last very long.
In terms of pvp they can pvp very well against all other clasess, like all nukers, but they are the "gimp" side of the nuker population.
In terms of pve same thing.
Oh yeah I know if I only played for the nuke I would be bored in 2 days. I am a fan of the nukers in general. I just feel that the sorc looks the most pleasing eye wise. Yes I do have a SE I am lvling it with. Or atleast will be at 32
Why is the sorc supposedly so bad? I want to make one because prominence looks straight up bad [censored], but I guess I don't if they are just awful
The bad thing about a Sorc is their lack of Mana management skills. The other thing is that their AoE abilities have been nerfed when they nerfed the general AoE abilities.
However single target(solo ftw) Sorcs are deadly in PvP and PvE, but for the most part, you'll really want a 2nd account with an SE to recharge the sorc. Also since there aren't many sorcs left, who do you know that always/usually/seldom runs around with Resist Fire buff?
About as deadly as any other nuker in PvE.
Less deadly than the others in PvP*
Resist Fire is non-factor because you should always surrender you target before nuking it, and surrender removes Resist <Element>.
*Elemental Protection gives more fire resist than Wind/Water/Earth resist, so that's means Sorcerors is less deadly than the others in PvP due to having no shutdown skills other than Curse: Fear.
Their Vortex is nice, -30% atk speed rapes fighters and archers. But it's not a -30% Gross effect, as it ignores Atk Speed added by passives, like every other stat debuff (Weakness, Chaos, etc.).
A Nice change would be to make debuffs remove buffs the way surrender and Vortex do. Weakness = No Might, Chaos = No Guidance, Ice Vortex = No WW, Wind Vortex = No Acumen, Fire Vortex = No Haste, Disease = No Prayer. That would surely own. But it isn't going to happen, for sure.
Sorc's are not that bad. And as for MP go to area's where herb drop and you'll never run out of mp. Granted other nukers hit harder / faster, for pve a sorc has a pre that many places mobs have fire weakpoint. In group pve sorcs are very usefull for their crowdcontrol abilities. Sleep clouds lands most the times. Even now with the cast speed nerfed for the sleep it is still very usefull.
As for pvp you just have to adjust your play style towards your abillity's which is mainly support. Cancel, surrender, vortex, sleepcloud, decay. All good skills in pvp as long as you can avoid to become prime target of your enemy.
1 big disadvantage is you get only 1 vortex skill and you get it at lvl 77 instead of other nukers who get 1st vortex at 76.
A Sorc is one of the best classes to play IMHO, It's hard to beat an archer without epics but the fact you have Cancle.
SPS is the only class i dont like pvpin due to the fact they have 2 nukes and cancle also.
if you /walk and get mana pots, with B2M lvl 1 + Walk + Mana Pots + Herbs i can keep my mp up without a problem.
Only problem is in mass pvp, fully buffed archers usually 2-3 shot you but in 1 v 1 2 v 2 or 9 v 9 there a very nice class to play. Also much <3 for 3 AOE's.
A Sorc is one of the best classes to play IMHO, It's hard to beat an archer without epics but the fact you have Cancle.
SPS is the only class i dont like pvpin due to the fact they have 2 nukes and cancle also.
if you /walk and get mana pots, with B2M lvl 1 + Walk + Mana Pots + Herbs i can keep my mp up without a problem.
Only problem is in mass pvp, fully buffed archers usually 2-3 shot you but in 1 v 1 2 v 2 or 9 v 9 there a very nice class to play. Also much <3 for 3 AOE's.
SPS has two nukes but one is only an overhit (slow cast) and vortexes are slower than regular nukes anyways. No SPS will run in to Cancel a Sorceror in PvP. They will much rather nuke you down because they cannot afford to take that kind of damage running in (only Necros can afford that, IMO).
Sorc should be afraid of everyone in PvP seeing as how NCSoft owns them more than anyone else with resist buffs.
I have thought a lot about the different nuker classes and have played all 3 (well, kinda... my sorc is still a wiz), so for what its worth here is what I think.
We've all heard how the sorc is a middle ground, faster than the SH, more powerful than the SPS. All classes have their advantages and disadvantages. The advantages of the sorceror class are IMO:
The best aoe sleep spell in the game (highest chance of landing)
The most powerful aoe nuking capabilities (more aoe nukes than the SH, higher damage than the SPS)
The rarest of the nukers, and therefore the necessary component for your clan/alliance/friends to cast elemental assault
Also by virtue of being the rarest nuker, people more rarely have resist fire on in pvp
Are the advantages of the other nukers better than those of a sorc? Maybe. But if you want to be a sorc, go for it. You won't suck. (you're regular nuke can eventually 1-hit a b-grader in top jewels, believe me, I know ^^)
It allows them to 2 Shot a level 70 corrupted man trivially. It has its uses, but most of the time there are more important things to do than fiddle with servitors (which is why so many high level necros pvp with them and they don't die "all that often").
Also by virtue of being the rarest nuker, people more rarely have resist fire on in pvp
Resist <Element> is non-factor in PvP, and not many would waste the buffslot for it. The only Resist that people would give a buffslot to is Unholy, since it's only removeable via Dark Vortex and there is a non-overhit nuke of the Dark element - Death Spike : Used by two classes and is the same power as a normal nuke, one of those classes being SH which has highest nuker M.Atk.
Every nuker worth his salt will Surrender [and Vortex] before nuking, so those Resists other than Unholy really are a waste of a buffslot.
Are the advantages of the other nukers better than those of a sorc? Maybe. But if you want to be a sorc, go for it. You won't suck. (you're regular nuke can eventually 1-hit a b-grader in top jewels, believe me, I know ^^)
A Necro will outdamage a Sorceror on targets buffed against their specific elements.
The only downfall to Necro is that you cannot strip your target's Resist Unholy until S Grade (Dark Vortex @ 76). But leveling in Lineage II is easy, so you should actually factor that in ASAP. The Unholy Armor resist added for S80 in CT1 will most likely be less than or equal to the extra Fire Resist in Elemental Protection for Sorcerors.
Necros outclas Sorcerors in every way, shape, and form.
The biggest boon to the Necro class over many other classes in the game (especially nukers) is that they have multiple roles that they excellently fill.
Good job 1 shotting low B Grade targets in Arena with no resist buffs when you are 15+ levels higher with extreme gear advantages, though. That's an awesome reason to choose the worse "nuker" class in the game.
you can get a lot of resist stuff against necro because there are tons of necros
but necro can help other nukers in other ways, gloom/silence/para/etc :)
in pve i really dont think sps > sorc. all sps complaining about their mp. i can duo aoe from 40 to 75 with sorc. takes like 3-4min to do b2m for full mp.
in pvp, since there are more fighters in this game i think cancel + fire vortex are better than sh skills imo
if you have good buffs and some boss jewels you an beat soultaker with other nuker. i did it before without those stuffs with my lolsorc :)
anyway, all are chances...
Must have been a LOLSoultaker. I see alot of the Soultakers on Bartz don't know what they are doing. I PvP'd against some S Grade StSc and MM who didn't know what they were doing.
Like a 78 Storm Screamer Dark Vortexing me and nuking with Death Spike. Or a Mystic Muse running in to Aura Flash me.
A Necro will land silence more often than a Storm Screamer, and you can para nukers through DC Set. Fear lands alot with Curse Gloom, they have double the HP/CP (double effect from CP/QHP/Elixir) and you die if you try to kill it when the Necro/ST has you targetted.
There is also a Boss Jewel with 15% Fire Resist, so the Sorceror is worse off than the Necro IRT resists. The fact that people buff more against Dark doesn't change that.
I think 1 shotting Holy Weak mobs with Vortex/Overhit is better than anything a Sorc can do with Prominence unless M.Crit. When you level from 70-77 in an area filled with these mobs things look differently.
Everyone levels 52-7x in VoS, so those levels are rather non-factor, although an SPS will most probably outlevel a Sorceror in those levels even if both have only an SE buffer.
I dont think you can one shot mobs with sps unless they are 1/2hp. I used blazing circle a lot for lvling (now plus aura flash). You can still AoE as a sorcerer till 78 under gc for 23k-27k xp from 2 AoE... or in FoG/IT pole parties. Even if its lvl 1, b2m still helps me a lot :).
About PvP, there are players and players... most of them dont take fire resist because they get overbuffed or not to many sorc. to fight with. There are a lot of players on bartz that have Frint. Neck. I think Valakas was killed only one time on Bartz and also dark resist armors are coming soon :). Most parties should have someone with cleance/purify then its not a such a big problem
You can 1 shot undead mobs at tablet spot in Forest of the Dead with Light Vortex and Solar Flare. Solar Spart takes almost half the HP of Vampire Soldiers/Warriors (the small red ones, whatever they're called) so you can 2 shot them with HydroBlast + Solar Spark for a lesser overhit (those mobs Zerk themselevs :p) and save ALOT of MP over time.
The big vampires are 1 shot with Light Vortex (it surrenders before damage is applied, like every vortex) and 90% of the time also with Solar Flare; and, many others are 1 shot with Solar Flare. When it is night time, almost all the Vamps are 1 shot with Light Vortex, and many others can be 2 shot with Solar Spark + Solar Flare.
This is with A Grade gear. With Arcana Mace + Arcana Set and Emp/Acumen you would be able to 1 shot more things, and take off over half the HP of a small vamp warrior/soldier with just Solar Spark (D Grade overhit nukes Never Fail). Someone I know who levels there @ 77 1 shots everything with Solar Flare, Light Vortex, and Ice Vortex.
All the vamps are Sacred Weak, and the other mobs are rather gimp. At night 90% of the mobs there (maybe all?) are Sacred Weak.
Bishops, EE, SEs, etc. always get Targetted First. Good Necro = /Target Bishop, Gloom, Curse Disease [+Try Silence, unless they have many/a few nukers since focus fire will kill the Healer anyways], and get assisted on the healer. It's all in how you play, but Bishops and EEs usually die first if your party knows what they are doing. After the healer is debuffed you can move to other targets (like Anchoring/Fearing/Silencing others).
Dark Resist will most likely be equal to the PvP bonus on A/S Grade weapons and the higher Fire Resist in Elemental Protection (that is, 5% woohoo) and take into account that the Necro should not be feared for the damage it does with a nuke.
If you are feared or Anchored it doesn't matter if the Necro is nuking for 200, cause even if it breaks it will most likely land again you'll lose eventually. All this with a Corrupted/Cursed man hitting/nuking/stunning/backstabbing you.
And don't worry about people not buffing Fire. Things will change a bit when people will have so much Dark Resist on armor/jewels that they can afford to get other buffs.
No one in their right mind would buff Resist Fire/Wind/Aqua because Surrender will strip it right off, anyways. Waste of Buff Slot. The only resist buffs worth getting are Unholy (need S Grade to strip it), Elemental Protection, and Divine Protection.
And a Song or Dance, of course.
Like I said, Frint Neck is overrated because most Necros are very unskilled. Frint Neck is non-factor to debuffs, and that's what the class was made for. The easily obtained Dark Resist buffs should be a clue to those Necros.
I can 2 shot those mobs since like lvl 70. If sps cant 2 shot with hidro and he need a 76 skill (vortex) for that... its kinda bad imo. Overhit skills, for last hit, are bad somehow, you get more xp but less sp, you need a lot of SP for 76+ skills. At 76 I can xp there unbuffed :) I need only a SoM and major robe. Vampires are 1.5 shots buffed :). I see SH doing that even better with hurricane :)
You speak more about a solo necro. Sure he can gank some xp parties but, for example, if our enemies are prepared to pvp and have good buffs (most of them have boss jewels also) debuffs doesnt land often. Yea I agree with you with many things, its like that on paper but in practice.. really depends on many things and usually things never happend like you planned to be.
Curse disease?! If I see someone from my clan doing that I'll never pvp with him... its like using decay in pvp. Sure, you can try anchor/silence but there isnt much time for useless things. I myself got qhp/ghp/cp/elixirs and a nostromo to spam those pots.
The problem with b2m is not that it is so weak, it's only a little less usefull as you have to cast it more times for the same exact effect. (at high levels of b2m the more mana it gives the more life it steals, so in the end the effect is the same but faster (takes less time as you have to cast it less) for high level).
The problem is sorc does not have a powerfull leech spell to regain his lost life, the necro and sh do have them.
And corpse leech is unfortunatley very weak at high levels (a few hundred hp back only).
I can 2 shot those mobs since like lvl 70. If sps cant 2 shot with hidro and he need a 76 skill (vortex) for that... its kinda bad imo. Overhit skills, for last hit, are bad somehow, you get more xp but less sp, you need a lot of SP for 76+ skills. At 76 I can xp there unbuffed :) I need only a SoM and major robe. Vampires are 1.5 shots buffed :). I see SH doing that even better with hurricane :)
You speak more about a solo necro. Sure he can gank some xp parties but, for example, if our enemies are prepared to pvp and have good buffs (most of them have boss jewels also) debuffs doesnt land often. Yea I agree with you with many things, its like that on paper but in practice.. really depends on many things and usually things never happend like you planned to be.
Wow, you terribly misread. Light Vortex 1 shots all the undead there. A SPS can 1 shot with Light Vortex, Solar Flare, Two shot with Solar Flare + Spark, and Two shot with either 2 Hydroblasts or a Hydroblast and a Solar Flare.
Sorc cannot 1 shot any of the mobs there unless M.Crit. An SPS can 1 shot most there with a either a +3 SOM+Arcana Robes or DC Robes + +0 Arcana mace with 2-3 skills depending on level. No M.Crits involved, despite the fact that an SPS/MM will crit more often than a Sorceror given equivalent gear/buffs.
Curse disease?! If I see someone from my clan doing that I'll never pvp with him... its like using decay in pvp. Sure, you can try anchor/silence but there isnt much time for useless things. I myself got qhp/ghp/cp/elixirs and a nostromo to spam those pots.
Do you know what Curse Disease does? There is a big difference between a non-debuffed Bishop chainhealing itself with GBH and a debuffed Bishop chain healing itself with GBH. Curse Disease causes you to get healed for 50% of what it would normally heal for. Obviously, you should hang out wiht Necros who know what skills they have, how to use them, and who to use them.
Practice > Paper, and not alot of people actually know how practice works because either:
1. They don't play the Necro class.
2. They play Necro like a typical nuker (which it is not).
Debuffs land more than enough, and there are tons of them to do what needs to be done (weaken/eliminate the enemy). Nukes are a secondary ability of the Necro class, IMO. If the enemy knows what they are fighting, any nuker can become non-factor dmg-wise, so that argument really holds no weight. Necros nerf themselves when they try to play like faster casting, lower hitting Spellhowlers.
Decay isn't even comparable to Curse Disease. Disease isn't a DoT, it's a debuff, Lol.
You cannot spam CP Pots when youa re Feared or Anchored. 50% resist Para on DC doesn't mean it will only land 50% of the time, so it lands through that too (and I have had pretty good success Anchoring nukers - you know how they like to kite when silenced :( ).
But all this talk is useless, I have already demonstrated many of the things that I have mentioned on this or other boards in game countless times :) You are a sorceror/bishop (?) so you see things from a different perspective. You have to learn how to control a Necromancer (i.e. not like a Sorc/SPS/SH) to get proficient at it. Using Curse Disease on healers and focus-fired targets is uber, and far from useless. That statement boggles me.
Curse Disease will certainly [censored] all Kamael :)
The problem with b2m is not that it is so weak, it's only a little less usefull as you have to cast it more times for the same exact effect. (at high levels of b2m the more mana it gives the more life it steals, so in the end the effect is the same but faster (takes less time as you have to cast it less) for high level).
The problem is sorc does not have a powerfull leech spell to regain his lost life, the necro and sh do have them.
And corpse leech is unfortunatley very weak at high levels (a few hundred hp back only).
Leach spell for? The highest level of Body to Mind can be totally negated with a cheap "Healing Potion" from the Grocery Store. Using the MP to leach (Vampiric Claw) is a total waste of alot of MP. Those skills are high MP cost. Corpse Life Drain... I think the last time I used that one was in D Grade. It just stayed on my bar just in case I should need it (and never did it). If you ever are in the position where you need to CLD (i.e. you are low HP and many mobs are hitting you), it's probably a better idea to use Vamp Claw anyways. If nothing is still hitting you, you just use a Healing Potion instead.
Maybe it's just me, but there have been times when I've used CLD and it returned 0 HP. It's also very low power, and when Vampiric Claw crits it's a full heal.
But you need to be 76+ to get that light vortex. I know that SPS complaining about mp and they need like 2 rechargers... idk I wasnt one.
I know what Curse Disease does since I had 2 soultakers in my hand. Restore life and Balance life are good in this case, its like the same in 4sep quest when bishop is needed. Also cleanse is one of the good skills in pvp to remove all kind of debuffs. The bishop help the EE in party and the EE help the bishop. Healers debuffs land a lot also, dont underestimate them.
The problem with b2m is not that it is so weak, it's only a little less usefull as you have to cast it more times for the same exact effect. (at high levels of b2m the more mana it gives the more life it steals, so in the end the effect is the same but faster (takes less time as you have to cast it less) for high level).
The problem is sorc does not have a powerfull leech spell to regain his lost life, the necro and sh do have them.
And corpse leech is unfortunatley very weak at high levels (a few hundred hp back only).
Leach spell for? The highest level of Body to Mind can be totally negated with a cheap "Healing Potion" from the Grocery Store. Using the MP to leach (Vampiric Claw) is a total waste of alot of MP. Those skills are high MP cost. Corpse Life Drain... I think the last time I used that one was in D Grade. It just stayed on my bar just in case I should need it (and never did it). If you ever are in the position where you need to CLD (i.e. you are low HP and many mobs are hitting you), it's probably a better idea to use Vamp Claw anyways. If nothing is still hitting you, you just use a Healing Potion instead.
Maybe it's just me, but there have been times when I've used CLD and it returned 0 HP. It's also very low power, and when Vampiric Claw crits it's a full heal.
Uhum, I see, ok, i know pots can negate b2m easily, but in my books exping costs go even higher, so no, it's not an option for me.
As for corpse life drain.. well, I've seen (not to say experienced) CLD at lvl 65+ on a sorc returning a few hundred hp on same++ level mobs. So I don't know exactly... :confused:
Oh well, IF you have oodles of adena to spare and wanna level fast, sure, b2m yourself out and gobble up heal pots :).
The problem with b2m is not that it is so weak, it's only a little less usefull as you have to cast it more times for the same exact effect. (at high levels of b2m the more mana it gives the more life it steals, so in the end the effect is the same but faster (takes less time as you have to cast it less) for high level).
The problem is sorc does not have a powerfull leech spell to regain his lost life, the necro and sh do have them.
And corpse leech is unfortunatley very weak at high levels (a few hundred hp back only).
Leach spell for? The highest level of Body to Mind can be totally negated with a cheap "Healing Potion" from the Grocery Store. Using the MP to leach (Vampiric Claw) is a total waste of alot of MP. Those skills are high MP cost. Corpse Life Drain... I think the last time I used that one was in D Grade. It just stayed on my bar just in case I should need it (and never did it). If you ever are in the position where you need to CLD (i.e. you are low HP and many mobs are hitting you), it's probably a better idea to use Vamp Claw anyways. If nothing is still hitting you, you just use a Healing Potion instead.
Maybe it's just me, but there have been times when I've used CLD and it returned 0 HP. It's also very low power, and when Vampiric Claw crits it's a full heal.
Uhum, I see, ok, i know pots can negate b2m easily, but in my books exping costs go even higher, so no, it's not an option for me.
As for corpse life drain.. well, I've seen (not to say experienced) CLD at lvl 65+ on a sorc returning a few hundred hp on same++ level mobs. So I don't know exactly... :confused:
Oh well, IF you have oodles of adena to spare and wanna level fast, sure, b2m yourself out and gobble up heal pots :).
There are also Herb of HP that drop in field dropping areas. I don't think many people level in non-herb droping areas from 40-77 unless in a party (which will usually have a recharger/healer).
Cheap Healing potions from Giran are very cheap, and you can more than recoup those costs. 45'ish k for 100 Healing Potions is not alot of adena - at.. all...
IRT another post, Healer Debuffs work well on melee and DDs but there is seriously no reason for a nuker to really fear it. Manaburn and Trance are the only "intimidating" skills that a healer gets, and they can't even do that when they are feared/silenced/anchored/etc.
I'm impatiently awaiting CT1 so I can test out Mass Fear in PvP setting :)
Yea :(
And about necro debuffing healers, I really want to see debuffing something like this (http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1653/mec80cv9.jpg) or like this (http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9388/nhoz80ag7.jpg). You know what I mean? If you speak about end game things well this is it. Its not like a random necro will do something to players like this. I can disable too regular necro with my subclass.
Anyway, this thread should be about sorc imo
It is possible for an end-game Necro to debuff such players.
You can go see the stats of an end-game Necro on L2Calc if it's worth your time. The boss jewels can shut down some skills, but it is the same for any class with all those boss jewels.
You should watch the fraps of the Soultaker landing Silence on Prophets in Olympiad and beating them (HellBorn, or whatever his name is).
Boss Jewels aren't the end-all be all of everything, a buffed end-game Necro can get upward of 4.5k M.Atk, which makes it possible to get through 2k M.Def fairly consistently, considering that most "regular players" are sporting 1-1.5k M.Def buffed - like support classes and summoners - and Necros with 1.6-2k M.Atk can very easily debuff them. The only thing exceptional about that SS is her level, epics, and the nice P.Def from Heroid Valor. Everything else is fairly cookie-cutter.
An end-game Necro of her calibre will ahve all +9 skill which adds chance and raises the learn level of the skills (more +Chance) which overcomes a fair bit of that M.Def. The only thing left to consider is the %Chance to resist them added by the boss jewels, which comes from your character's base chances and is not a flat chance (which is why Anchor still lands consistently on Daggers in DC Light, tanks in DC Heavy - Mystic Classes/Elf Fighters only harder because of their higher M.Def, but it lands enough). Perhaps that was too verbose XD
If you can disable two Necros with a Bishop the Necros need to learn how to play. Don't even need a servitor to kill a Bishop 5-10 levels higher than you.
Well that example with necro landing silence on pp in oly is not that good, pp self buffed is not that strong as wc/ol :). If necro has good gear and enchanted skills can do a lot of things yep. Necros anchor land more on fighter not only because of m.def but MEN is much lower. If you go -10 MEN on nuker you lose only a bit of m.def but debuffs land much often on you.
I disabled necro just doing trance/turn undead/backfire/mana burn/trance so on :) but again, he has a chance to disable me and I also have a chance to disable him. I wish my sorc had that many strong skills like my sub lol
There is also a Boss Jewel with 15% Fire Resist, so the Sorceror is worse off than the Necro IRT resists. The fact that people buff more against Dark doesn't change that.
LOL, and Valakas Necklaces are just readily available, right?
And frintezza isn't farmed on a regular basis...