This is not a suggestion thread. Some of the following are simply impossible to implement (that's why I put it in general discussion). It is just a "what if" thread. How would I alter the game today if I had the magic wand? Of course I haven't played all classes, but from the interaction I had with several, this is how I would like it to be:
CLASSES
I. Support characters
-Bishops would still be the best healer in-game
-Prophets wouldn't exist (sorry for all PP's out there). Some of their buffs would be shared among other buffers
-EE/SE and SwS/BD would be counterparts in an almost role play basis. The LE would provide all magical buffs/protections as well as the holy attacks/resists. The DE would do the same for melee buffs/protections and dark attacks/resists. Buffers (SE/EE) would not have any kind of heals (only good self heals) but they would share a number of skills: a small rez ability (lesser of course than bishop's), return, maybe blesses, crowd control skills, etc
-Orc mages would be jacks of all trades: less buffs (basic staff), slightly better heals, few single target debuffs or crowd control skills for WC (OL already has AoE). I would add a party/clan MP recharge skill (WC's stronger, OL's weaker) with a rather big reuse delay. Best of course (single target) recharges would still come from SE/EE.
II. Summoners
-Necro would be the best debuffer but with no attack spells (death spike, CDL, etc). Paralyze skill would not exist (or would have a really small land rate).
-True summoners (not the summons) would get more debuffs than they have now (maybe add a DoT attack)
III. Mages
-I would not give mages any kind of debuff or crowd control skill. Only damaging magic.
-For mages without dark magic (vampiric claw, corpse life drain, BtM) I would add a self heal spell and a small version of invocation skill (mana regen)
IV. Archers
-Bow damage would be much lower against heavy and light armour with few chances of scoring a critical hit against them. (even more than I expect we will see in CT1)
-No entangle skills but better speed and evasion
-Stun shot would work only against robe users (archers still should be able to kill robe users easily, nothing more)
V. Tanks
-Their hate would be much stronger so they wouldn't loose aggro even from excessive critical hits by other party members (hate lock effect for some time in PvE too)
VI. Melee DD (Tyrant/Destro/Glad/Dagger/Warlord)
-A way to boost their Mdef for a brief time (enough to cover some distance from a ranged unit)
-For warlord, I would add a short of parry stance from lower levels (buff or passive). He uses polearm to deflect some hits from opponents. That would work randomly as a shield block (reduced damage) or complete avoidance (evasion effect).
VII. Dwarves
-I would add Mdef passives (racial feature), so that dwarves have at least 20% more than any non-mystic class. Also, they would get passive resistance to both buffs and debuffs. That means that when one casts buffs or debuffs on a dwarf, there is a good chance to fail (dwarves distaste magic, good or bad).
-I would add a chaotic AoE skill. Usable with a polearm equipped. 360 degrees radius, 200-300 range. It does damage and it has a chance to randomly cast debuffs on surrounding enemies (stun, weapon disarm, temporary target loss, fear etc.).
-More Patk through blunt masteries (not more masteries, just stronger)
GAME MECHANICS
-No Brez. Bishop rez for up to 90% exp return, the rest of the buffers for much less (but more than CH's).
-No CP pots and QHP with reduction of PvP damage accordingly.
-Balance between statistics. Let me explain.
1) First case:
Assume a 74 SH (som.w/acc, DC, majestic jewels, no enc., unbuffed). Applying dyes, we have:
+4 MEN results in +3,6% Mdef.
+4 INT results in +16% Matk.
+4 WIT results in +22% casting speed.
See anything wrong? I would increase some and decrease other so that boosting one stat result in equally gimping another (not absolut, rather in effect).
2) Second case.
A human dagger has 11 more CON than a DE tank. See anything wrong?
Although both are considered fighters, their role is different. Statistics should be applied both on racial and class basis. Begin with basic racial stats (separate for fighter/mystic) and then apply the class’ ones (for example, daggers would get -CON, +DEX, while tanks would get +CON, -DEX).
-Melee characters would be aloud to change their MEN in expense of either WIT or INT (like mages do for CON)
-Armor would have some impact also. For example, heavy should give -run speed, etc.
-A buffer can buff only within party. No OOP buffing. If a buffer leaves party, all the buffs he applied start to have a 1 min countdown (enough for a party to get out of a tight spot in case of buffer DC)
-Casting penalty or spell failure chance for mystic classes using shields.
-Bow would have severe penalties (- accuracy and attack speed) for any class without the relevant masteries (not only mystics).
-I would make force-logging on a 40 seconds timer. When you press OK at log in screen (and you are already logged), your character freezes in-game (but can be damaged) and logs out after 40 seconds with the relevant message.
I know this has a lot of RPG stuff in it and maybe I forget a lot of important things but, would this be a better or worst game?
-Necro would be the best debuffer but with no attack spells (death spike, CDL, etc). Paralyze skill would not exist (or would have a really small land rate).
How would they level then? Debuff the mobs to death? :P
A buffer can buff only within party. No OOP buffing. If a buffer leaves party, all the buffs he applied start to have a 1 min countdown (enough for a party to get out of a tight spot in case of buffer DC)
This one is the only which I completely disagree with.
What happens if the buffer disconnected in the middle of a raid, siege or other group? You'd then have 8 dead party members.
Obviously by using their skills. Summon reanimated man, summon cursed man, DoT's and debuffs. For solo that is, because there is also another game function called "party".
A buffer can buff only within party. No OOP buffing. If a buffer leaves party, all the buffs he applied start to have a 1 min countdown (enough for a party to get out of a tight spot in case of buffer DC)
This one is the only which I completely disagree with.
What happens if the buffer disconnected in the middle of a raid, siege or other group? You'd then have 8 dead party members.
Well you have one minute to decide what to do.
-Exp group: get to a safe spot, wait for buffer to relog.
-Raid group: same thing happens if your tank or bishop dies and you don't have a backup.
-Siege: in one minute you have the time to redraw or rush and win the battle. A backup buffer also helps.
If buffs are so important (the difference between life and death) then buffers should be equally important.
In one minute you can be completely rolled and lose the castle. There is no such thing as a backup buffer because just about every party will have their own, maybe even 2 who will be MP'less after a full buff round.
...With Curse Death Link AND Death Spike no Necro even needs to use them, except for using them as HP batteries with Transfer Pain.
And I still think Necro's Transfer Pain should work in reverse, sharing damage from the summon and giving it to the Necro, who has all those 'Dark' HP recovering skills as well as CDL.
-A buffer can buff only within party. No OOP buffing. If a buffer leaves party, all the buffs he applied start to have a 1 min countdown (enough for a party to get out of a tight spot in case of buffer DC)
Totally and completely agree with this. Never understood why it is allowed for some buffs and not for others, but then I'm not perfect.
If siege is problematic, then just make exception for sieges.
In one minute you can be completely rolled and lose the castle. There is no such thing as a backup buffer because just about every party will have their own, maybe even 2 who will be MP'less after a full buff round.
I know things change fast in a siege. But most siege buffers are boxed ones who buff parties at the nearest town. Then they add a high level WC/PP/SE for some prophecy or CoV and there they go.
But if this is such a huge issue, sieges can be an exception as the previous poster indicated.
Just checking I understood correctly - are you suggesting the BD/SWS would always be in a party together?
If so (and I'm answering on that assumption so ignore me if it's not what you meant) I wouldn't be happy with that at all. It can be hard work sometimes soloing as a BD (though obviously not impossible) and if the only way I can party is if there is an SWS in the same group then I'd be losing out again (and same for SWS) - no SWS = no party.
Just checking I understood correctly - are you suggesting the BD/SWS would always be in a party together?
If so (and I'm answering on that assumption so ignore me if it's not what you meant) I wouldn't be happy with that at all. It can be hard work sometimes soloing as a BD (though obviously not impossible) and if the only way I can party is if there is an SWS in the same group then I'd be losing out again (and same for SWS) - no SWS = no party.
Maybe I didn't use the word "counterpart" correctly. I meant opposites. Light/Dark, melee/magic (at support level at least). Not forced partying or anything.
-Prophets wouldn't exist (sorry for all PP's out there). Some of their buffs would be shared among other buffers
-EE/SE and SwS/BD would be counterparts in an almost role play basis. The LE would provide all magical buffs/protections as well as the holy attacks/resists. The DE would do the same for melee buffs/protections and dark attacks/resists. Buffers (SE/EE) would not have any kind of heals (only good self heals) but they would share a number of skills: a small rez ability (lesser of course than bishop's), return, maybe blesses, crowd control skills, etc
Then you are better to remove EE/SE and keep PP with all the buffs.
I agree with alot of what you said here. Can't agree with the prophet bit thou, way to drastic, and unrealistic. Than again this is an "what if?" thread so... knock yourselves out :).
The 1 minute counter when the buffer falls seems cool too, even within siges. (there are workarounds)However, tell me one thing that matters within a BIG positive change for the better that NCSoft ever considered?
Afaik only Coreea's opinion matters for big changes.
I heard "Bishop best healers", "no more paralyze nor silence for nukers" and "no BRez". I would fall in love for less! :)
I hate you all SH with your dirty Silence spell! >:0
Why not, if you're gonna go to the point of considering a complete revision of the game, why not go ahead and make a whole brand new game?
This sounds like an alternate-universe lineage2 (which may or may not be balanced) -- take the musings to another step and at least make it Lineage-Unleashed or Mega-Lineage or Heroes of AndreasK Land
Dark age of camelot had similar problems with "buffbots", that was the term there. Best change they ever made imho to their classic servers was to not allow buffs outside group.
Well you have one minute to decide what to do.
-Exp group: get to a safe spot, wait for buffer to relog.
The buffer logs in...and dies, because his party ran to a safe spot?
I personally would definitely not like the changes to EEs. I like that we're at least a little versatile at the moment, and wouldn't enjoy being changed to a mage buffer, crowd controller, with some rarely used utility spells.
EE would have no place in a melee exp party at all, except for recharge. EEs would become the new SE (nuker duo chars), but to an even greater extent than SEs are now, since we wouldn't even be able to offer a melee party VR or any basic melee buffs.
Dark age of camelot had similar problems with "buffbots", that was the term there. Best change they ever made imho to their classic servers was to not allow buffs outside group.
L2 should have the same.
I didn't know that. But if it worked for other games, it would work for this.
A buffer can buff only within party. No OOP buffing. If a buffer leaves party, all the buffs he applied start to have a 1 min countdown (enough for a party to get out of a tight spot in case of buffer DC)
This one is the only which I completely disagree with.
What happens if the buffer disconnected in the middle of a raid, siege or other group? You'd then have 8 dead party members.
Thats how it works in Dark age of camelot, really nice actually. Forcing you to group :) There are like 2-3 buffs (out of 60?) that you can do oop, and they only last for 10min
As soon as you leave group or teleport away (aka get out of exp range) the buffs disappear, awesome idea if I may say so myself
As soon as you leave group or teleport away (aka get out of exp range) the buffs disappear, awesome idea if I may say so myself
Considering how stable L2 client is, I would not consider that as an awesome idea. Imagine 2/3 of ally got crit error on last siege, not to mention crit errors on epic raids are way too common too.
Hm, being a BD - i have a question. If SwS is all for nuker, and BD is all for melee, do they share protective buffs? or have none whatsoever? See the way damage-oriented lineage-thinking getting to you? =)
As soon as you leave group or teleport away (aka get out of exp range) the buffs disappear, awesome idea if I may say so myself
Considering how stable L2 client is, I would not consider that as an awesome idea. Imagine 2/3 of ally got crit error on last siege, not to mention crit errors on epic raids are way too common too.
Its different in pvp areas, in all pvp areas buffs stay no matter how far away you are, but I'm sure something similar could be added in L2, it'd be a lot easier to make groups then
This is not a suggestion thread. Some of the following are simply impossible to implement (that's why I put it in general discussion). It is just a "what if" thread. How would I alter the game today if I had the magic wand? Of course I haven't played all classes, but from the interaction I had with several, this is how I would like it to be:
CLASSES
I. Support characters
-Bishops would still be the best healer in-game ( we are and always will be )
-Prophets wouldn't exist (sorry for all PP's out there). Some of their buffs would be shared among other buffers ( the [censored]? pp are immesurable to groups at sieges )
-EE/SE and SwS/BD would be counterparts in an almost role play basis. The LE would provide all magical buffs/protections as well as the holy attacks/resists. The DE would do the same for melee buffs/protections and dark attacks/resists. ( so wait, what about the dances/songs they have already?Buffers (SE/EE) would not have any kind of heals (only good self heals) but they would share a number of skills: a small rez ability (lesser of course than bishop's), return, maybe blesses, crowd control skills, etc ( LOL WORST IDEA EVER )
-Orc mages would be jacks of all trades: less buffs (basic staff), slightly better heals, few single target debuffs or crowd control skills for WC (OL already has AoE). I would add a party/clan MP recharge skill (WC's stronger, OL's weaker) with a rather big reuse delay. Best of course (single target) recharges would still come from SE/EE. ( orcs are already gods of buffing. no need to give them anything else )
II. Summoners
-Necro would be the best debuffer but with no attack spells (death spike, CDL, etc). Paralyze skill would not exist (or would have a really small land rate). ( necros are a useless class in pvp for people that know how to pvp. you obviously dont. buffed correctly for pvp necros hit me for 400 damage or even less if i have invoc from an sws. then the damage goes to 200, and people still say necros are OP lol! )
-True summoners (not the summons) would get more debuffs than they have now (maybe add a DoT attack)
III. Mages
-I would not give mages any kind of debuff or crowd control skill. Only damaging magic. ( lol what? ok, so take away a nuker *when i say nuker i mean a reg nuker, not your guy with a Wm 10 augment valakas necklace pow/siren etc. * only chance at beating an archer 1v1. k )
-For mages without dark magic (vampiric claw, corpse life drain, BtM) I would add a self heal spell and a small version of invocation skill (mana regen) ( then already have this. Its called Clear mind and battle heal lvl 9. )
IV. Archers
-Bow damage would be much lower against heavy and light armour with few chances of scoring a critical hit against them. (even more than I expect we will see in CT1)
-No entangle skills but better speed and evasion
-Stun shot would work only against robe users (archers still should be able to kill robe users easily, nothing more) ( LOL ARE YOU SERIOUS? nothing more to add here )
V. Tanks
-Their hate would be much stronger so they wouldn't loose aggro even from excessive critical hits by other party members (hate lock effect for some time in PvE too)
VI. Melee DD (Tyrant/Destro/Glad/Dagger/Warlord)
-A way to boost their Mdef for a brief time (enough to cover some distance from a ranged unit)
-For warlord, I would add a short of parry stance from lower levels (buff or passive). He uses polearm to deflect some hits from opponents. That would work randomly as a shield block (reduced damage) or complete avoidance (evasion effect).
VII. Dwarves
-I would add Mdef passives (racial feature), so that dwarves have at least 20% more than any non-mystic class. Also, they would get passive resistance to both buffs and debuffs. That means that when one casts buffs or debuffs on a dwarf, there is a good chance to fail (dwarves distaste magic, good or bad). ( good luck on getting xp as a dorf. i know i would love to be a wc and have to buff the party 4 [censored] times because the dwarf resisted my buffs. )
-I would add a chaotic AoE skill. Usable with a polearm equipped. 360 degrees radius, 200-300 range. It does damage and it has a chance to randomly cast debuffs on surrounding enemies (stun, weapon disarm, temporary target loss, fear etc.) ( LOL )
-More Patk through blunt masteries (not more masteries, just stronger)
GAME MECHANICS
-No Brez. Bishop rez for up to 90% exp return, the rest of the buffers for much less (but more than CH's).
-No CP pots and QHP with reduction of PvP damage accordingly. ( you have obviously never played high end pvp. just shut up )
-Balance between statistics. Let me explain.
1) First case:
Assume a 74 SH (som.w/acc, DC, majestic jewels, no enc., unbuffed). Applying dyes, we have:
+4 MEN results in +3,6% Mdef.
+4 INT results in +16% Matk.
+4 WIT results in +22% casting speed.
See anything wrong? I would increase some and decrease other so that boosting one stat result in equally gimping another (not absolut, rather in effect). * wait what? any nuker worth his salt goes +4 con -4 str +4 wit -4 men +4 int -4 men. learn this game before posting lol....*
2) Second case.
A human dagger has 11 more CON than a DE tank. See anything wrong?
Although both are considered fighters, their role is different. Statistics should be applied both on racial and class basis. Begin with basic racial stats (separate for fighter/mystic) and then apply the class’ ones (for example, daggers would get -CON, +DEX, while tanks would get +CON, -DEX). ( ITS CALLED RACIAL STATS FOR A REASON YOU IDIOT )
-Melee characters would be aloud to change their MEN in expense of either WIT or INT (like mages do for CON) ( finnaly something we agree on )
-Armor would have some impact also. For example, heavy should give -run speed, etc. ( lol tanks are sol then huh? )
-A buffer can buff only within party. No OOP buffing. If a buffer leaves party, all the buffs he applied start to have a 1 min countdown (enough for a party to get out of a tight spot in case of buffer DC) ( shut the hell up. there are OOP buffers for a reason. )
-Casting penalty or spell failure chance for mystic classes using shields. (so, do you just hate mages? seriously)
-Bow would have severe penalties (- accuracy and attack speed) for any class without the relevant masteries (not only mystics). ( you [censored] serious? they already have less attack speed then archer because of no rapid shot, and less range. get the hell out lol )
-I would make force-logging on a 40 seconds timer. When you press OK at log in screen (and you are already logged), your character freezes in-game (but can be damaged) and logs out after 40 seconds with the relevant message.
I know this has a lot of RPG stuff in it and maybe I forget a lot of important things but, would this be a better or worst game?
added my [censored] in in ( ) or * * after your terrible ideas/
Making necros, as a summoner class , actually USE their summons for something other than HP batteries is ok with me!
Right now a Necromancer only has the following pet skills:
Servitor Heal, Servitor Recharge and Servitor Wind Walk, every single one of which is a pre-40 skill.
Good luck solo-summoning on your necro with just those buffs. ;)
PS: People need to quit [censored] about Necro's. Look at what we have now: Erase, Dark Resist buff.
If a necro's pet is erased, and there aren't any nearby mobs, how is he supposed to resumon?
In CT1, every S80 armor will have Dark Resist, every Shoulder Pad set for that armor will be an additional Dark Resist. There will still be Dark Resist mobs, Dark Resist Buffs, Erase buffs, and Bladedancers will get a Dark Resist song. So now my damage just dropped to 150-200 per nuke. How much more necro's need to be nerfed before people will shut their trap about them?
So Necro's are getting screwed hard when CT1 comes out. To all the whyners out there, I say shuddup.
As soon as you leave group or teleport away (aka get out of exp range) the buffs disappear, awesome idea if I may say so myself
Considering how stable L2 client is, I would not consider that as an awesome idea. Imagine 2/3 of ally got crit error on last siege, not to mention crit errors on epic raids are way too common too.
when that happens to the healer, the ---- pretty much has hit the fan anyways though, right?
added my [censored] in in ( ) or * * after your terrible ideas/
Your ideas would make this game much, much worse.
AndreasK has explained his/her ideas respectfully. Even if you dont agree with them, SHOW RESPECT TOO, or just shut up.
About the topic, I like some things, but not all of them. I really liked the m.def thingie on dwarfs :eek:
Almarë
awww someone is a hypocrit :(!
Cant take the heat? stay out of the fire.
What does that even mean? Are you channeling Ricky Bobby or something? Do you know what hypocrisy is or did you just hear it someplace and decide to throw it into the mix since it sounded cool?
There are 2 things. What you say and how you say it. First part I will not comment. Your opinions is your prerogative, so are mine. Just a reminder: this is not a suggestion thread, just a what if. Second part: people resort to insults and flames when they lack good arguments or are very uncertain of themselves (or when they are bored in forum as you suggested once). I don't know when you come from though.
PS. I have a pretty good understanding of the word hypocrisy since it comes from my native language. You clearly don't.
Isn't "I won't be in the target audience of the proposed game" a good enough argument?
Of course.
By the way, how do you see your target audience?
People that love L2 but are not happy by the way it has evolved.
Who do you think would want to play such game? Besides you as a WC, of course :p
Really don't know. That's why I made the thread in the first place. As for the WC comment, do you imply that what I described would be good only for WC's to play?
There are 2 things. What you say and how you say it. First part I will not comment. Your opinions is your prerogative, so are mine. Just a reminder: this is not a suggestion thread, just a what if. Second part: people resort to insults and flames when they lack good arguments or are very uncertain of themselves (or when they are bored in forum as you suggested once). I don't know when you come from though.
PS. I have a pretty good understanding of the word hypocrisy since it comes from my native language. You clearly don't.
it is unfortunate that i cannot respond to this the way that i want to without risking my forum account.
Ill just say this.
My arguments were not lacking.
IT IS MY OPINION that your knowledge of how this game actually is, is the thing that is lacking.
anyone that plays this game at the end game level knows that necros are nothing to worry about.
it is unfortunate that i cannot respond to this the way that i want to without risking my forum account.
A silly forum account should be the least of your concerns. Someone tried to spark a discussion, and instead of being secure enough in yourself to either:
A. Not respond. Seriously they didn't hurt you.
B. Respond constructively and respectfully.
...what did you do? You posted gems like:
added my [censored] in in ( ) or * * after your terrible ideas
( LOL )
( LOL WORST IDEA EVER )
( necros are a useless class in pvp for people that know how to pvp. you obviously dont.)
( LOL ARE YOU SERIOUS? nothing more to add here )
What was even better? Well you did follow that up with...
Ill just say this. My arguments were not lacking.
Yes, as we can all see your arguements were brilliantly formatted and divinely inspired.
IT IS MY OPINION that your knowledge of how this game actually is, is the thing that is lacking.
Ah, there it is. You know more about the game so that makes you a better person and therefore it gives you carte blanche when you cut someone down anonymously over the internet. I genuflect before your omniscience. By knowing all and seeing all in L2 you truly have won the internets.
I mean that in the nicest way possible.
Uh huh. That was the problem in the first place champ. When I say pointless, hurtful things I am ashamed of it. Take it from an expert in bitterness; the venom in your original post had nothing to do with the author of the thread. Look elsewhere.
The OP did nothing to you and they made no offensive gesture to anyone else. Let them share their ideas without being ridiculed.
it is unfortunate that i cannot respond to this the way that i want to without risking my forum account.
A silly forum account should be the least of your concerns. Someone tried to spark a discussion, and instead of being secure enough in yourself to either:
A. Not respond. Seriously they didn't hurt you.
B. Respond constructively and respectfully.
...what did you do? You posted gems like:
added my [censored] in in ( ) or * * after your terrible ideas
( LOL )
( LOL WORST IDEA EVER )
( necros are a useless class in pvp for people that know how to pvp. you obviously dont.)
( LOL ARE YOU SERIOUS? nothing more to add here )
What was even better? Well you did follow that up with...
Ill just say this. My arguments were not lacking.
Yes, as we can all see your arguements were brilliantly formatted and divinely inspired.
IT IS MY OPINION that your knowledge of how this game actually is, is the thing that is lacking.
Ah, there it is. You know more about the game so that makes you a better person and therefore it gives you carte blanche when you cut someone down anonymously over the internet. I genuflect before your omniscience. By knowing all and seeing all in L2 you truly have won the internets.
I mean that in the nicest way possible.
Uh huh. That was the problem in the first place champ. When I say pointless, hurtful things I am ashamed of it. Take it from an expert in bitterness; the venom in your original post had nothing to do with the author of the thread. Look elsewhere.
The OP did nothing to you and they made no offensive gesture to anyone else. Let them share their ideas without being ridiculed.
lol get off me.
Check it buddy.
you pulled 4 out of how many things i said.
actually only 3 of them make sence, the one about necros is true :).
Oh bitterness master can you please please please show me your ways =[.
" I genuflect before your omniscience" Using big words to make yourself sound smarter is not the way to make someone belive your smarter, just fyi.
Oh, and
"Ah, there it is. You know more about the game so that makes you a better person and therefore it gives you carte blanche when you cut someone down anonymously over the internet. I genuflect before your omniscience. By knowing all and seeing all in L2 you truly have won the internets.
"
Look, pal, its an internet forum. OMG YOUR CUTTING ME DOWN ANONYMOUSLY. SOMEONE CALL THE INTERNET POLICE. THIS GUY MUST HAVE BEATEN THE INTERNET.
Its a Lineage 2 forum buddy, for a game that we play.
Yea, i know l2 better then this guy, and probly better then you.
Therefor, i am better at this forum, and at this game, then you.