While walking around Akihabara today looking for some exotic power cable, I noticed that all the PC shops are really marketing Lineage 2 Chaotic Throne. There were even full size standup cardboard displays with a DE on it and a huge L2 logo, very nice. I would have taken a picture of it, but japanese businesses tend to get annoyed the second you pull out a camera in the store.
Just about every other PC store had a PC setup to play the newer CT videos and some sort of paper display, from a regular sheet of paper sized to poster sized. I even found one shop that bundled the game with the PC itself. I simply do not understand why this is so difficult to do for the NA servers. At least start selling the t-shirts again so that the players can have the option to pay to promote the game, since no one else is willing. I'm going to hunt down the LE figure in the pic.
A fellow NA L2 player living in the same country :)
Yeah I know, the Japanese preview site for Kamael is also nicer. Went on it today and although there isn't too much info, I noticed they give the dates of when the info will be released (new info about CT1 every 2 weeks until the launch).
Under the law in 49 states: the grind and mass crit errors during sieges combine to qualify Lineage2 as an inhumane experience. It is therefore illegal to market, distribute Lineage2 marketing material, and oddly enough, it is even illegal to let your pet(yes, even a Bichon Frise no matter how annoying) play it while you are cooking dinner/at work/retiling the master bath/away on vacation.
The sole exception in the United States is Nebraska since there is simply nothing else to do. Go "Bugeaters".
Yeah, I would love to see an L2 Commercial, during Hero's perhaps? Hell, I would love to have a game store attendant not laugh at me when I ask them where the L2 time cards are.
Maybe marketing is just not that big of a priority for the NA people....or maybe its that we just can't seem to translate the Korean marketing campain into english :p
Mainly because a computer retailer in Japan will find it great to place an advertisement for a popular game in his shop window in order to sell his computers, while any living being in USA will tell you "what is Line Age? Anti-wrinkles cream?", so placing an advertisement in your shop isn't worth a peanut contrary to a World of Warcraft ad which would bring a schoolbusful of customers.
Under the law in 49 states: the grind and mass crit errors during sieges combine to qualify Lineage2 as an inhumane experience. It is therefore illegal to market, distribute Lineage2 marketing material, and oddly enough, it is even illegal to let your pet(yes, even a Bichon Frise no matter how annoying) play it while you are cooking dinner/at work/retiling the master bath/away on vacation.
The sole exception in the United States is Nebraska since there is simply nothing else to do. Go "Bugeaters".
Only time in Australia i ever found a EB games who knew [Censored] lineage2 was or even gametimecards from it, was when i bumped into my Clannies girlfriend working at one, she laughed and said goodluck :>
Under the law in 49 states: the grind and mass crit errors during sieges combine to qualify Lineage2 as an inhumane experience. It is therefore illegal to market, distribute Lineage2 marketing material, and oddly enough, it is even illegal to let your pet(yes, even a Bichon Frise no matter how annoying) play it while you are cooking dinner/at work/retiling the master bath/away on vacation.
The sole exception in the United States is Nebraska since there is simply nothing else to do. Go "Bugeaters".
are you robert downey junior?
Cesar Milan. I put threads into a "calm submissive" state.
Only time in Australia i ever found a EB games who knew [Censored] lineage2 was or even gametimecards from it, was when i bumped into my Clannies girlfriend working at one, she laughed and said goodluck :>
EB and GameStop sell PlayNC cards now instead of specific time cards for specific NCSoft games. So next time ask for a PlayNC game card, if they have em down there.
Only time in Australia i ever found a EB games who knew [Censored] lineage2 was or even gametimecards from it, was when i bumped into my Clannies girlfriend working at one, she laughed and said goodluck :>
EB and GameStop sell PlayNC cards now instead of specific time cards for specific NCSoft games. So next time ask for a PlayNC game card, if they have em down there.
trust me i knew that, and that was like c3 when it was popular, they havnt ever stocked them in australia... only recently stocked l2 in like c4+, and its like $80 for epic collection.... saw it after i came back from america and picked up a copy for $9.99
L2 credit cards? I'll have to get one of those, I'll be here until January. Do you get free play time the more you use the card? Would be nice, lol. :D
Last week I was in Best Buy and boxes of Tabula Rasa got my attention. For a moment i thought Nsoft finally put their products on the shelf, but for my disappointment it was only Tabula Rasa advertisement discs or credits. ( not sure)
Lineage2 is amazing game and now with the upcoming update management should make much much much more NOISE about it.
One reason why not in NA is we don't even have a release date for the product.
The other reason why not in NA is there's no %$^& product, just a free expansion.
Why advertise something that doesn't exist and you can't even sell?
L2 has been in Japan for almost a year. So it's not totally new, and as such, neither is the expansion, in your eyes. Also, please read the thread responses.
I did read the thread. Perhaps you didn't understand my post.
Imagine yourself the manager of a software selling business. Do you want to make an elaborate display for a product you don't sell? Or do you want to pump up Halo3 (or whatever) which is actually on your shelves, being purchased, drawing people into the store, and making you money?
In other countries, a reasonably large number of people play the game, so hopefully a store will make money by promoting it. Perhaps there's actually something to buy overseas, too. Here in the USA you'd come in to a store with no product.
I like lin2, don't get me wrong, but if it were my store, I'd not sacrifice my livelihood just to be a fan-guy.
I believe the store promotion is to encourage new players to purchase the game, not existing ones. For existing players, you're right, there is no "product" because we already own the game and it is just an update. But for those new players, the product is a game with 6 updates. Maybe if there were more promotions in US for the chronicle updates this game would have more people playing it.
Then again-- you can buy 99% of all PC games online and download them directly... so why have any store that promotes or sell them, right?
L2 has been in Japan for the same time as NA, more or less.
And they made big re-release campaigns everytime a new expansion came out. I should know, not only have I been living here for the last 7 years, I also reported about these events (including having release parties with people in costumes and semi-celebrities) here a few times.
And these campaigns/events are maybe 25% a nod to the existing players and 75% about new players and/or selling the "Lineage2" game PC or notebooks the local shops churn out. Oh and of course there is always a new box for each expansion in the shops to draw in new players.
Imagine yourself the manager of a software selling business. Do you want to make an elaborate display for a product you don't sell? Or do you want to pump up Halo3 (or whatever) which is actually on your shelves, being purchased, drawing people into the store, and making you money?
That's a perfect example. You use your shelf and ad space for what will attract shoppers and what will make shoppers say "Hey, this place has the best stuff." 2 million people across America play WoW. A million or so people across America have bought HALO3. The chance of an ad/signage for those games hitting the target audience is high.
But if there's only 60,000 people in North America that play L2... what's the chance many of them will walk by or into your store?
Had I never played L2 before... I probably would. Since there's been next to zero promotion for the game since launch there's a good chance people who've never heard of it would think it's a brand new game and go check it out. At least-- that's the optimistic side of it.
Try the UK. I've not seen a single copy of Lineage II (any edition) in stores. I've seen time cards which are usually placed near the desk, Guild Wars, CoV/H but never Lineage II. You can, however, get it online from most British stores.
I did read the thread. Perhaps you didn't understand my post.
Imagine yourself the manager of a software selling business. Do you want to make an elaborate display for a product you don't sell? Or do you want to pump up Halo3 (or whatever) which is actually on your shelves, being purchased, drawing people into the store, and making you money?
In other countries, a reasonably large number of people play the game, so hopefully a store will make money by promoting it. Perhaps there's actually something to buy overseas, too. Here in the USA you'd come in to a store with no product.
I like lin2, don't get me wrong, but if it were my store, I'd not sacrifice my livelihood just to be a fan-guy.
I honestly doubt its the game stores that decide what their displays will be. I'm pretty sure its who ever pays them the most / meets their ad space cost requirement that gets the ads put up. Im sure if NCsoft paid GameStop to put a display up, they would.
I think I'd just dropped dead if I saw that! Right in the middle of Shibuya! And on ALL the screens, not just the Q-Front!!!
This is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE! What the heck is NCSoft NA doing, while NCJapan has it's game together! This isn't a case of single shop advertising, NC Japan put some big money into this!!! Closing down THAT particular intersection to promote a game = MONEY SPENT.
I'll be here until January, please keep me informed if you don't mind, ty.
Under the law in 49 states: the grind and mass crit errors during sieges combine to qualify Lineage2 as an inhumane experience. It is therefore illegal to market, distribute Lineage2 marketing material, and oddly enough, it is even illegal to let your pet(yes, even a Bichon Frise no matter how annoying) play it while you are cooking dinner/at work/retiling the master bath/away on vacation.
accordingly windows is illegal as well...keep in mind The "blue screen":P
L2 is not a Western-friendly game, especially in the wake of the Blizzard.
Most of us have been here long enough to recall a fairly large number of people who have come and gone from the game and these very forums either from that three-letter-acronymn game (henceforth TLAG) to L2, or from L2 to TLAG.
The market of American gamers is finite. Many industry analysts say that it's already reached its peak and has plateaued, if not begun to already decline.
If NC-NA spent, let's say, $1 million dollars on a stunt like this (and you can bet that closing, say, Times Square in NYC for a day will cost at least that) in the US, and it garners them 1000 subscriptions that stick around for a full year... well, NCS only makes $210,000 and that includes $30 for the game itself.
Sounds like an $800k loss to the bottom line, and a very strong incentive *not* to do something like this to me.
L2 is not a Western-friendly game, especially in the wake of the Blizzard.
Most of us have been here long enough to recall a fairly large number of people who have come and gone from the game and these very forums either from that three-letter-acronymn game (henceforth TLAG) to L2, or from L2 to TLAG.
The market of American gamers is finite. Many industry analysts say that it's already reached its peak and has plateaued, if not begun to already decline.
If NC-NA spent, let's say, $1 million dollars on a stunt like this (and you can bet that closing, say, Times Square in NYC for a day will cost at least that) in the US, and it garners them 1000 subscriptions that stick around for a full year... well, NCS only makes $210,000 and that includes $30 for the game itself.
Sounds like an $800k loss to the bottom line, and a very strong incentive *not* to do something like this to me.
And if they just made some cardboard standup displays to put up in some game stores, it would cost them a few grand and maybe get them just as many subscriptions.
Honestly, times square is not the right audience. Target those that are likely to play (and keep playing) rather than those that might pick up the game cause of a stunt and then find out they dont want to play a video game that cost them $15 a month.
Cardboard stand-ups cost a lot more than "a few grand". Blizzard, Sony, etc. pay hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars for shelf-space and floor-space to national retail chains for those stand-ups, displays, banners, etc.
A store of a given size can devote only so much space to displays and stands and the like, before getting into problems with fire-safety ordinances, freedom of access laws and the like. So let's say that a given Wal-Mart allows 500 square feet of space for displays and stands and such in its Electronics/Games department. The big players like Blizzard, Microsoft and Sony are going to snap up as much of that as they can, competeing with each other to wave the highest bid under Walmart's nose for that space. Remember that, in advertising, there's no "equal exposure" law! So Blizzard grabs 200 sq. feet, MS grabs 190 square feet and Sony grabs 110 square feet, at a price that averages out to about $50k per square foot.
There's simply nothing left for smaller developers or less-popular (or bad-rep) games.
Honestly, times square is not the right audience.
Indeed, but where is the "right audience" for L2? Coffee shops? Concerts of a wildly-divergent musical genre? Hole-in-the-wall game stores that might last 3 years in business?
Heck, who buys their games from a bricks-and-mortar store anymore? Of the last dozen games for the PC, Xbox and PS2 that I've purchased, only 3 were from an actual store. The rest were ordered online and mailed to me.
Yes, it would cost you next to nothing to design and produce the cardboard standers, but like Wardancer said, shelf space is PURCHASED also. If you want 500 boxes of your product on someone's shelf, you have to PAY for those 500 spots. Did you know that you also pay more to have an item displayed at eye level? For any national chain this will be the case, there's always the independant shops that set stuff up solely at their own discretion, but even they will opt to put the most popular games on their shelves as they need the income.
Understanding the costs associated with marketing a product makes it plain to see why NCSoft has done so little here.
i don't think is a matter of money when it comes to adds. i have reading a well known uk magazine for pc games and it reffered to this game as a copy of WOW. which is totally crap. i think the NA department and EU department of NcSoft need to consider few thinks before they start recruiting people. this is like a statistical market analysis went wrong. they believed that this game will not sell and they let it there doing nothing. in europe there are near to none shops that sell time cards which is frustrating if you are a new comer. on the other hand eastern Europe is different. in Greece which i visited the summer i found plenty of stores advertising the game in a proper way.
about money ncsoft made last year some nice billions (refference: NASDAQ) so i don't think that they will have any problem to advertise this game properly at least money wise.
if i was in their shoes i would change adds company not because they don't advertise the game but because after 4 years there are people which they don't know that this game exist.
Yeah. I think L2 just isn't marketed towards the western consumer base. Euro/NA mmo'ers want casual pvp with no penalties, pve with no grind, and the ability to thoroughly individualize your character. I consider Guild Wars and City of Heroes to be more typical western mmo's.
I read in an interview - might even have been linked on this forum - where they talked about catering granado espada more towards the western market. Originally it didn't have any form of character customization, and the only reason they (reluctantly) added some, was to make it more appealing to us.
I've no idea about the logistics behind advertising but surely it couldn't hurt, especially now with kamael coming up. The stands in the original post look awesome and I could definately see a lot of people having never heard about L2 checking it out because of that stand.
A while ago I went to the local EBGames and asked if they carried Lineage 2 gamecards. He stopped a moment and looked at me while asking "Lineage 2?". I said yeah, the mmo (ummumoh!). He hit some keys on the computer, and after a few seconds he mmm'ed and asked "is that a pc game?".
I don't know how many of you here were around for the original open beta. I was and I remember the reviews. NCSoft got burned badly then. I don't think L2 ever quite recovered in NA from that opening. It was really unfortunate, especially because now the game is 'older' and although the graphics have held up really well, there are other things that would be considered 'outdated'.
The popularity of WoW is not going to help Lineage II greatly. There are too many things people have come to expect in games being released currently that Lineage II does not have.
I read some statistic that the gaming population's average age was in their 30s. People in their 30s usually have jobs and relationships and responsibilities. Those kinds of things don't lend themselves well to playing a game that has the kind of time requirement that Lineage II has. That's another strike against it.
Don't get me wrong, I love the game, but to think that it can be marketed and suddenly have an explosion of new players here, is not going to happen. I think the player base can be increased, but it is past the time where NCSoft is going to pour a ton of money into marketing it here.
I don't know how many of you here were around for the original open beta. I was and I remember the reviews. NCSoft got burned badly then. I don't think L2 ever quite recovered in NA from that opening. It was really unfortunate, especially because now the game is 'older' and although the graphics have held up really well, there are other things that would be considered 'outdated'.
The popularity of WoW is not going to help Lineage II greatly. There are too many things people have come to expect in games being released currently that Lineage II does not have.
I read some statistic that the gaming population's average age was in their 30s. People in their 30s usually have jobs and relationships and responsibilities. Those kinds of things don't lend themselves well to playing a game that has the kind of time requirement that Lineage II has. That's another strike against it.
Don't get me wrong, I love the game, but to think that it can be marketed and suddenly have an explosion of new players here, is not going to happen. I think the player base can be increased, but it is past the time where NCSoft is going to pour a ton of money into marketing it here.
To address this further, baium raids are impossible for people with lives to do,
all other "big raids" have to be put on a "perfect time" to suit everyone
I guess thats the one big thing WOW has with instanced raids compared to l2 not to mention their always up for u.
L2 is pretty popular here still, that's why. Whenever I go down to my local game centre there's usually at least 50 people playing Lineage 2 on the PC's there.
I don't know how many of you here were around for the original open beta. I was and I remember the reviews. NCSoft got burned badly then. [...]The popularity of WoW is not going to help Lineage II greatly. There are too many things people have come to expect in games being released currently that Lineage II does not have.
Indeed. In as much as advertising might help get folks to try it the retention rate would probably be horrific. L2 is a hard game with a steep leveling/gearing curve and the game itself is no where near as thoughtfully crafted as World of Warcraft.
People can hate WoW as much as they want for offering pedestrian PVP and carebear gameplay but it was groundbreaking when it was released and they have jumped through hoops ever since to keep it ahead of the pack in almost ever forseeable way.
- Constant tweaks to keep classes balanced
- Integrated voice chat
- Repsonsive customer care with an iron fist death grip on the farmer issue
- Tweaks to older content and pvp instances to keep those areas/options feeling fresh
They seriously bust their [censored] to make the product that they do and it shows in the form of constant and significant updates. In a vacuum, taking both games at their face for what they purport to be: World of Warcraft is simply a ridiculously more polished game that continues to break new ground.
If L2 ever started advertising again they should state how different it is from WoW and why that's a good thing. In an apples to apples comparison(just as generic MMO's) WoW spanks L2 in ways that aren't even allowed amongst consenting adults.
- Constant tweaks to keep classes balanced
- Integrated voice chat
- Repsonsive customer care with an iron fist death grip on the farmer issue
- Tweaks to older content and pvp instances to keep those areas/options feeling fresh
They seriously bust their [censored] to make the product that they do and it shows in the form of constant and significant updates. In a vacuum, taking both games at their face for what they purport to be: World of Warcraft is simply a ridiculously more polished game that continues to break new ground.
Just to be straight here, WoW didn't invent those things. For instance voice chat was done in Dungeons and Dragons Online and then in Lord of the Rings Online before WoW did it.
I don't know of any game out there that does not constantly tweak character classes.
People often think WoW is very innovative when what they really just have built on what others have done before them.
I don't know of any game out there that does not constantly tweak character classes.
I included the word balance. Does L2 have balanced classes? WoW has nine classes and each has three talent trees. With the exception of maybe one or two trees all of them are viable in that most knowledgable players won't laugh at you when you tell them what you spec'd. Every class can solo effectively in WoW and you won't get ridiculed in PVP.
I don't know of any game out there that does not constantly tweak character classes.
I included the word balance. Does L2 have balanced classes? WoW has nine classes and each has three talent trees. With the exception of maybe one or two trees all of them are viable in that most knowledgable players won't laugh at you when you tell them what you spec'd. Every class can solo effectively in WoW and you won't get ridiculed in PVP.
Dwarven Bounty Hunters? Warsmiths? SEs? Prophets?
I am not talking out of my rear about this game. I played a Discipline Priest in WoW in a hard core raiding guild. My boyfriend is a WoW devotee. I'm very, very familiar with the game. I don't think they have a lock on balance. I do think that characters there have more solo options...but L2 wasn't intended to BE a solo game. That's a major difference between the American/European mindset.
WoW copies everything that seems to work or is popular, whether in other games or in user-created addons.
They do not, however, in any way control the farmer problem. In fact they even go so far as to say (in blue posts) that the worst punishment you'll get for ebaying is losing what you bought, not a ban or anything. There's a massive, much larger than lin2, RMT market for WoW. It remains even after they implemented daily quests that flooded any serious player's pocket with more money than they can use. The so-called pvp system has a long history of being heavily botted or hired out to the same Chinese farmers that run our lin2 bot trains.
By being more accessible to casual players than prev mmorpgs, WoW has a bigger problem with RMT/cheaters, not less.
But let's be realistic. Take WoW's popularity in context. They've sold millions world-wide, but still not made much penetration to the US market. The total sold units of WoW are 1.5 million in the US last I looked (i.e. about 1/2 of a % of the ~300 mill living in US). It's much more popular in the Asian markets, and hasn't approached here anything like what other games have over there. MMORPGs an PC games lack the appeal here that they have in other countries. I guess we're more Xboxish.
I do think that characters there have more solo options...but L2 wasn't intended to BE a solo game. That's a major difference between the American/European mindset.
Valid point, but the problem is that we're talking about advertising a game with a hardcore leveling curve, many classes that do not solo well, and an already shrunken player base that has long since left Talking Island behind. That's asking an awful lot of new players considering they will most likely need to solo grind to 52+ before anyone pays attention to them and 70+ before they will be considered a pvp threat.
This is a hard game. The best advertising it can get is word of mouth from established players to friends since those friends will support them. Trying to attract gamers into L2 years after they might have actually gotten parties in Gludio or Cruma just seems counter-productive.
Giving long tenured players tons of free guest passes and some sweet lowbie gear to hand out seems like a much more effective recruiting strategy.
Good point, I believe we as gamers need to promote this game to our friends and other mmo players we know to get more people in. My selling point for this game is very simple. Right now there is no other game that offers the hardcore pvp and castle seiging this game has. Age of Conan I believe will be the first big challenge to L2 in this regard and at that point perhaps L2 will die (I hope not :(). Right now its up to Ncsoft to ramp it up with some serious improvements in the next few chronicles or the end is inevitable for this game.
I have played many games, and know players who play those games more than the hardcore Olympiad campers on popular NA/EU servers, and they wouldn't play Lineage II for a number of reasons. Most notably:
* The Crafting System is Rediculous
* The skill system is barebones
* The "Set"-based Armor System is too restrictive
* Damage Calculation and Resist System is out of whack
* Support classes are to boring in PvE or PvP for the most part
* NCSoft doesn't really add much new factorable content in chronicles anymore, or "revamp" old content to encourage lower level players to go back to them
* At high levels, some classes are dependent on [many] other classes to XP at an acceptable rate
* PvP is fun the first few times you do it, but then the imbalances make it seem "not worth it"
* Some classes have murky or no really defineable role in PvE or PvP
* NCSoft doesn't really practice good communication with the gaming community - you can often see EQ Devs and Designers post on their forums. You only get a rare sarcastic remark from HGMSpam
* Compared to SOE, NCSoft really fails horribly at investigating illegit gaming activity.
* The only factorable changes that NCSoft implements are to make things harder for people to level, which totally downgrades the fun-factor of this game
* NCSoft does not know how to split their priorities and [if possible] cater to both gaming communities [Asian + EU/US] efficiently.
Do group PvP in Guild Wars, then do group PvP in Lineage II. You will see what I mean. I'm not sure if NCSoft actually created GW or if they just Brand/Market it, but whoever did really did good with the PvP system there, as well as the class/subclass system.
People don't like such little finite gear choices for their toon. People don't like the only factorable effects on jewels coming from epic bosses that are perma-farmed by farmers and botted-up clans. People don't like being gimped into oblivion because someone brought a nostromo, ebayed some adena, and has an infinite amount of CP pots to spam.
People don't like that crap. Lineage II is atm the epitomy of what a vast majority of US/EU gamers dislike in a game. It's very hard to sell that no matter how hard you try or what kinda pictures you paint on those billboards.
The truth is evident the minute that level 1 toon logs into the game and tried to kill a mob that is targeted and 1/2 shot by "gfkdghf" before he can even get to it.
Also, "for the mass PvP" or "for the challenge" is not really a goal in a video game. You can do that at any level. Lineage II really has no progression path in it. You can level up and buy pretty much ANYTHING that you would need to make a toon "own". There is no work involved othan leveling the toon up or RL work required to have the funds to charge it to a Visa or MC.
* Support classes are to boring in PvE or PvP for the most part
* At high levels, some classes are dependent on [many] other classes to XP at an acceptable rate
* Some classes have murky or no really defineable role in PvE or PvP
* The only factorable changes that NCSoft implements are to make things harder for people to level, which totally downgrades the fun-factor of this game
* NCSoft does not know how to split their priorities and [if possible] cater to both gaming communities [Asian + EU/US] efficiently.
Okay I just have to respond to a couple of these...
Set based armor.... I spent so much time in Molten Core that I thought my eyes would bleed lava... Set based armor has been a restrictive staple in many games and WoW is certainly one of them.
Boring support classes... this is a common complaint in WoW. The boards used to be full of people complaining about how boring things are for support classes and how no one wants to play them and how they are the first to die in PvP so they are no fun.
Class dependency... The constant complaining about how you needed this class or that class to do a certain thing seems to be a core part of most of the games I've played.
Having no definable role is another common complaint in many games. These 'fringe' classes always complain about how difficult it is to level because no one wants to take them in groups and instead they want 'X' class that is needed.
As to making it harder to level...man, you must not have been around when the game first started. I can't believe how much easier it is to level a character to 40 than it was when I first played the game. There have been a lot of changes (increased XP, newbie buffs, herbs, etc.) that are specifically to help you level faster.
There have even been some changes that have supposedly been specifically for the NA market. Apparently a lot of the PvP changes have to do with our specific skills in griefing other players with PvP.
Set based armor.... I spent so much time in Molten Core that I thought my eyes would bleed lava... Set based armor has been a restrictive staple in many games and WoW is certainly one of them
Sure, in WoW I suppose that is the case. Personally, I have never played it. In another major MMO, your set armour is the penultimate end of your career. It's what you strive to reach at the apex of your ability. At every moment before then, you choose to wear hundreds, if not thousands of possible combinations of gear.
L2? You wear a specific set for a specific class/role within a specific grade... or you fail. It's Doom-or-Bust, NM-Light-or-Nothing, Maj-or-Fail, or whatever is the most appropriate set for your class. Sure, you *can* wear something different, but in doing so you gimp yourself in whatever role it is you're supposed to be filling.
Boring support classes... this is a common complaint in WoW. The boards used to be full of people complaining about how boring things are for support classes and how no one wants to play them and how they are the first to die in PvP so they are no fun.
Support classes in many games *are* boring, sacrificing a lot of potential for what it is that they do for other classes. That said, in most other MMOs they can still effectively progress without requiring a party or an ever-full amount of coin to fund potions, scrolls, elixers, etc.
One of the most effective soloing classes in EQ2 is a variant of the healer, for general XP... while the most effective classes at soloing the Heroic and Named mobs is a light-armour meleer.
There have even been some changes that have supposedly been specifically for the NA market. Apparently a lot of the PvP changes have to do with our specific skills in griefing other players with PvP.
That has been so since Open Beta. We gain slightly more XP per kill than Korea does. Other than that, our content is identical.
You don't get it because you think I'm talking about WoW, which I'm not. Others have plainly stated why WoW is > L2 to the average NA/EU gamer. I don't care for WoW. The type of game I was used to before Lineage II had more going for it than its graphics and PvP system (which is/was suprisingly similar and unbalanced on the PvP server, btw). The game is EverQuest, and I played it for 5 years.
IRT set-based armor system. You would have to check some profiles to see my point. You can tell what items belong to a certain "set" but the game doesn't force you to have all items from a certain set to get more than P.Def/AC benefits from you armor:
Also, the skill system in L2 really is rather barebones. Same skills for most of your character's life. Only "power/effect" upgrades. Long boring grind but looking at the same graphics for months at a time... A PvP game should have alot more complexity in the skill system to encourage multiple playstyles, the same way the armor system should be similar. ATM there is very little to choose in the way of controlling you toon and equipping it. Even tatoo setups are fairly "template".
Some other games haev alot more depth in their skill system (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spelllist.html?classes=NEC&source=Live&page=6). This isn't just to have more pwnz0r skills, but to make the game less monotanous to play and encourage a variety in playstyles to makes it less monotanous to even look at. Friends see me spamming the same nuke in L2 and kinda chuckle... "That's all you do to XP is spam the same skill all day?".
Clerics, Enchanters, Druids, Shaman, etc. in EverQuest have alot more to do than just buff and heal. A Prophet can hardly do anything but sit in L2 after buffing a group (unless it's recharged) and EE/SE got recharge nerfed which hurt their MP Management alot. Most groups will kick a Bishop that did anything other than heal, Lol.
Class dependency because at 78+, in order to get any XP worth talking about you aren't soloing. And if you're getting that XP you are in a group with rigid requirements for OOP Buffers/Dances/etc. That's restrictive, because there is little varriance in group setup for those levels. What classes you need, you don't go without. I'm not talking about the usual "we need a tank/healer, or we can't go anywhere". I'm talking about "We need a Bishop/EE/WC or SE/BD and SWS, or we can't go anywhere...".
If you think I'm worrying about how hard it is to level, Lol. Seriously, Lineage II is the easiest grind game out there. The only difficulty is finding the time to actually doing it. Unlike people in Korea, a majority of US/EU players have lives that don't revolve around the game and do not get turned on by their toon sitting at the same level for months on end, having to look for perfect parties to get XP, etc. It requires alot more XP to max out your toon in EQ than it does in Lineage II - and at least 100x the effort to gear it out due to the fact that you cannot buy anything worth wearing from player shops. You either have to run numerous (hundreds?) of missions (but not the same ones all the time, unless you choose to, of course) to buy it or raid for it. Raids are all varied and different.
Progression exists in EverQuest, but not in Lineage II. Yes, there is seige and everything else but those are open to all players (even level 1's if they so choose, doesn't mean they will win). All most players feel like they are doing is leveling up to have more people to play with (since most servers are top-heavy nowadays).
So, now that you know WoW isn't the only other MMO out there that people play - thoughts?
what nc soft should do is go to colleges, or to pc clubs, and go all out, i told several friends of mine to start playing and are going to start soon, and a few of them are in school, a few just work, but if you set up something that shows the product, show how good it looks, and have hot girls on their people will buy, i know i would, heck give me a free G baggy, i'll buy two
You are making the mistake of assuming I'm only talking about WoW. I played Everquest from the time it came out until I quit sometime around the Luclin expansion. EQ has changed and evolved I am sure, but at that time, set armor was the thing (god, anyone remember trying to kill the bosses for set pieces?) and Clerics were nothing but heal/buff/rez bots. As long as you stood and cast complete heal at the right part of the rotation you did what was needed.
I've played most of the major games out there. I know what I believe the gaps are in L2 and there are gaps as there is in any game.
So..now you know I'm not talking just about WoW either. ;)
They might start, but I wouldn't bet money on them staying past 6 months. Most college students don't really have the time to grind to 7x, but they do have a fair amount of disposeable income. Either they'll quit within 6 months, or they'll be Olympiad Champs by Valentine's Day.
You are all totally in the wrong Ball Park. While many of the points you have all stated are true and SHOULD be functional, the point is that NCSoft NA has NEVER done any major promotion of the game at this same magnitude. It does not matter that it should be done now, it matters that it was never done at all!
L2 came out a good 5 months before WoW, the biggest adversary to any MMO out currently. What NC NA did was just drop the gloves and say "I quit". It is obviously true that it is too late now for any advertising, but 3+ years ago, that was not the case. Any sort of propagation of the game, even if not pointing out the inherent individual qualities of the game, would have helped. This is the MAJOR failing point of NCNA to it's current player base and even more so to the population that has already left it. :mad:
Well, they actually did do a great deal of promotion at the NA launch. I have the posters and tshirts to attest to it. The problem was they got hit hard by bad press. REALLY hard. For what ever reason they either didn't do damage control or it wasn't effective.
Yes, now is too late...but it would be good for them to analyze what went wrong in that first launch so it's not repeated. Since that time they've done City of Heroes/Villains and Guild Wars. Those have been much better received, but they were also not the same kind of thing (game designed in Korea and brought here later).
The assumption might have been that five months of a head start should have been enough to secure whatever advantage they were going to have advertising or no. Five months is a long time and anyone with disposable income isn't really going to flinch when it comes to the decision of having something to play right now or saving a mere $40 just to end up playing the same tired game that they were already playing for another fice agonizing months until [whatever game is next] comes out.
The hardcore pvp folks who grew up on D&D are still here. In my mind they really didn't need to be advertised to. They pretty much had no place to go to other than L2 back then and they won't have anything to go to beyond L2 until Age of Conan or whatever it is that will ultimately replace L2 comes out.
NCsoft's fantasy-themed massively multiplayer game, Lineage II: The Chaotic Chronicle, definitely isn't for everyone. While it's certainly pretty to look at, the game focuses primarily on fighting monsters repeatedly to earn enough funds to purchase the exorbitantly priced weapons and armor you need to survive--a decidedly different approach than that of most other recent online role-playing games, which have attempted to alleviate these very issues. This differing emphasis is likely due to the fact that Lineage II was originally developed for the Asian market--so a few things may have been lost in translation.
Sounds like they had it pegged rather perfectly all the way back in June of 2004.
Depending on how you look at it, Lineage II offers either a repetitive grind or a stiff challenge. In any case, the game isn't suited for more casual players who may only have time to play for 30 minutes to an hour. But if you're looking to test your mettle at hacking through many, many monsters, Lineage II will definitely give you that much.
It's a niche game. It's a good game, but it's not really suitable for mass consumption. Hardcore pvp types tend to congregate together so that's why I brought up tossing guest passes to current players to snare their friends. Advertising in general interest gaming mags and on Adult Swim like WoW does? Meh, I just think they are apples and oranges.
You are making the mistake of assuming I'm only talking about WoW. I played Everquest from the time it came out until I quit sometime around the Luclin expansion. EQ has changed and evolved I am sure, but at that time, set armor was the thing (god, anyone remember trying to kill the bosses for set pieces?) and Clerics were nothing but heal/buff/rez bots. As long as you stood and cast complete heal at the right part of the rotation you did what was needed.
I've played most of the major games out there. I know what I believe the gaps are in L2 and there are gaps as there is in any game.
So..now you know I'm not talking just about WoW either. ;)
And who was going to PoFear to get armor during Shadows of Luclin expansion, which introduced low level armors that were even better than those old world planar armors. Also, it was perfectly possible to wear half PoFear gear and half Luclin gear and not feel like you armor was just there for looks.
Can you wear a DC Robe Set with a NM Helm and Boots without feeling totally useless in Lineage II? I don't think so.
If you had clicked on the link to the magelo i provided, you could see (from the name of the gear) that most of the player's gear was from a set, while his robe wasn't. This is becasue every piece of gear has something on it other than P.Def/AC and you aren't required to get a FULL SET of it for it to be "useful". If sets in EQ works the way they did in Lineage II, he would be in a totally different gear setup ATM, most probably full Anguish Gear.
And quest passes to existing players will just mean more bots running around. No one needs that and it won't help bring new players to the game IMO.
Uh, I said "long tenured players". If a bot account has been active for more than 2-3 years then that's the in-game staff's fault not the marketing dept.
There is no assumption that they did nothing to promote the game at the same level as they have in Japan, it's simply fact that they never did. They did nothing even remotely close compared to closing a major intersection and literally having a parade to advertise the game. 5 months or not, it was never done.
There is no assumption that they did nothing to promote the game at the same level as they have in Japan, it's simply fact that they never did. They did nothing even remotely close compared to closing a major intersection and literally having a parade to advertise the game. 5 months or not, it was never done.
Of course it wasnt. This game never, ever, had the potential to be as strong as it is in Japan or China. (Although lets be honest here, WoW is kicking [censored] their too...)
Its a Asian geared game, one which requires extremely long grinding even if you know the way to do it, and one that seems impossible if you dont to even be able to compete with anyone else.
That isnt the US market. NCSoft isnt stupid, they knew that.. why blow millions of dollars on a marketing campaign that will net you.. nothing? Better spent elsewhere, where the game fills a broader appeal.
There is no assumption that they did nothing to promote the game at the same level as they have in Japan, it's simply fact that they never did. They did nothing even remotely close compared to closing a major intersection and literally having a parade to advertise the game. 5 months or not, it was never done.
Because that wouldn't work in NA. Our communities are too large and, specifically, our gamer communities are spread too far apart for that to be effective.
Let's take Seattle (the city I live in) as an example:
The city of Seattle itself is rather small, with a bunch of 2-3 lane, one-way streets as the main thoroughfares for the half a million (2000 census) that live here.
Lots of people who live in Seattle actually work for Microsoft... the main offices of which are in Redmond. Thus, many people commute to work... that's 20 miles away, by the way. Myself, I live in Seattle and commute to Kirkland... also 20 miles away from my residence.
Now, if NCS were to have a parade in downtown Seattle, they'd be parading around in front of a lot of bankers, lawyers, financial advisors, investors, hot-dog vendors, cabbies, white-collar office staffers, bike messengers and a *****load of homeless drunks.
Not exactly your target audience.
Redmond? You're never going to get the permit, you'd be in competition with the Microsoft Game Studio.
Kirkland? Not a huge tech-base here, though there is some. Still, even if you were to parade down 124th avenue, you'd be parading in front of a few banks, couple restaurants, a tire place, a Jiffy Lube and a mom&pop grocery store run by some Chinese immigrants who advertise Beer, Cigarettes and Adult Novelties on their sign.
Yes, we do have a lot of Starbucks here. Not surprising, since the chain started here. Despite marketing to the contrary, as far as espresso goes, it's solidly mediocre.
The Pike Place Market is... well... a tourist trap, really.
On the EU part i think it will be Aion that will hit the sotres with a big promotion. Since it was partially adapted to the western gamepla so it is competable to WoW and their gang
While walking around Akihabara today looking for some exotic power cable, I noticed that all the PC shops are really marketing Lineage 2 Chaotic Throne. There were even full size standup cardboard displays with a DE on it and a huge L2 logo, very nice. I would have taken a picture of it, but japanese businesses tend to get annoyed the second you pull out a camera in the store.
Just about every other PC store had a PC setup to play the newer CT videos and some sort of paper display, from a regular sheet of paper sized to poster sized. I even found one shop that bundled the game with the PC itself. I simply do not understand why this is so difficult to do for the NA servers. At least start selling the t-shirts again so that the players can have the option to pay to promote the game, since no one else is willing. I'm going to hunt down the LE figure in the pic.