just trying to get a grasp on why anyone plays the class, as far as i can see it will be faster/cheaper/safer xp to nuke all the way to mid B grade and if you guys got a mid 40's nuke it would prolly be better to nuke all the way to 70
what exactly are you guys good at these days apart from owning the olympiad?
Summoner can solo in lots of places other clases can't. Summoners are good in party with their party summon.
Summoners can be played different. Some wear robes and are supports for summons,some wear lights and fight with their summon side by side.
Imo,summoners rock ^^
Pavel Ruins is about your next bet, when they go green, two shot all mobs with the summoner, then kill at same time with the cat and pull with the SE if you have that following.. you can just swamp yourself with mobs there. in the field not in the pit and just zig zag up and down.
just trying to get a grasp on why anyone plays the class, as far as i can see it will be faster/cheaper/safer xp to nuke all the way to mid B grade and if you guys got a mid 40's nuke it would prolly be better to nuke all the way to 70
what exactly are you guys good at these days apart from owning the olympiad?
not all summoner classer rock the oly.
But seriously we play because it's fun. I hate a nuker. Honestly just getting to 40 made me want to quit. I can't even bring myself to do nuker academy toons. I just don't enjoy the play style. Summoner though is a very unique experience and there is a lot of variability between players simply because there are so many options.
Who would say such things?! "Summoners suck..." :(
It is the ability to have so many play options, skills, and really, we do deal good damage. A PS can play as a healer, DD, nuker, tank... It is just really fun to be able to do all those things.
'I have the feeling you have never had a 1v1 fight with a good summoner (I may be wrong). But the fight quickly becomes 2v1, if you are stupid enough to have a servitor out, it can become 3v1, and the cubics are nasty as well, one stuns and the other debuffs (For PS). A skilled player may know how to handle a summoner, but having to fight the summoner and the servitor at the same time tends to confuse people at first and gives the summoner a slight advantage (this doesn't always happen).
Eh, sub a summoner for a while and try it out for yourself. ^^
I'd have to say summoners are some of the most well rounded classes out there.
Sure they dont have the uber highest DPS, but its pretty close and the situations they can get into and live are higher then any other solo class bar none.
Ours can solo in Cats, any group mob, non stop without herbs or with them, great in our group utility functions, no problems at all with accuracy, etc etc..
just trying to get a grasp on why anyone plays the class, as far as i can see it will be faster/cheaper/safer xp to nuke all the way to mid B grade and if you guys got a mid 40's nuke it would prolly be better to nuke all the way to 70
what exactly are you guys good at these days apart from owning the olympiad?
not all summoner classer rock the oly.
But seriously we play because it's fun. I hate a nuker. Honestly just getting to 40 made me want to quit. I can't even bring myself to do nuker academy toons. I just don't enjoy the play style. Summoner though is a very unique experience and there is a lot of variability between players simply because there are so many options.
Getting to 40 on a summoner is the same as getting to 40 on a nuker. Both nuker and summoners get the same skill sets up to 40 so they can choose identical playstyles and setups - although I hope you don't grind with servitors in D Grade :)
Summoners are powerful in the Olympiad, not so much outside of the olympiad.
Best characteristic of a summoner is self-sufficiency. With a buffstick or two and some potions you have pretty much no reliance on other players to get good XP - and you have more choices in XP spots than most other classes. Necro is probably the only non-summoner class what offers more choice in that area (better servitor and full powered nukes).
I'd have to say summoners are some of the most well rounded classes out there.
Sure they dont have the uber highest DPS, but its pretty close and the situations they can get into and live are higher then any other solo class bar none.
Ours can solo in Cats, any group mob, non stop without herbs or with them, great in our group utility functions, no problems at all with accuracy, etc etc..
There are classes that can solo better/faster than summoners, especially considering OOP Buffers (SE and/or PP) are so common in the game currently. I know a Soultaker who did 70 - 77 with a SE/PP OOP and Cursed Man very fast @ high floors of TOI.
I wonder are there other classes that might be really boring for (some) players to level that wthbbq pwn at high level? :p
Pretty much every class can/will get boring after a while. That is why NCSoft implemented the Sub Class system (other uses than Noble/Hero). With Subs you can switch and change it until you find something that you like, without having to do the useless 1-40 + Class Change Quests grind again.
Having leveled a warlock to 50, the only way I could bother to XP it after grinding to 46 or so (I already nuked for 72+ levels on main, and low level grinding with cats was boring me to death) was to put it in th group with a higher level nuker and let it leach - even if I had to play my SE actively to "trade" a service to said nuker.
It seems like you get bored faster the longer you play the game, and the higher you've taken other multiple toons. Grinding loses it's mystique :(
I'd have to say summoners are some of the most well rounded classes out there.
Sure they dont have the uber highest DPS, but its pretty close and the situations they can get into and live are higher then any other solo class bar none.
Ours can solo in Cats, any group mob, non stop without herbs or with them, great in our group utility functions, no problems at all with accuracy, etc etc..
There are classes that can solo better/faster than summoners, especially considering OOP Buffers (SE and/or PP) are so common in the game currently. I know a Soultaker who did 70 - 77 with a SE/PP OOP and Cursed Man very fast @ high floors of TOI.
Agreed, thats why I said they dont have the highest DPS, but they are up there :)
If you compare straight out DPS numbers, a Summoner is one of the top classes just because its 2 for 1.
Not to mention a Summoner brings tons more utility to a group then a Mage (hey look I got freezing skin, wee!).
I think summoners shine much more at 61+.
Almost any class can solo pretty well until A grade (buffers expected), but after A grade even a normal DD will have trouble killing fast.
Take a dagger + pp vs a summoner + pp - I would bet summoner could exp faster. The dagger's skills will help it kill faster for short time, but once all mp is gone, the summoner will kill faster.
i can grind like mad, untill im out of shots. summoners outshine alot of classes in the soloing. pvp outside of oly we get outshined fairly quick, mostly its the buffs and crit rate of summons, which is really bloodly low. not to mention that stupid pvp penalty ><, i could handle it just fine if it ONLY applied to oly.
'I have the feeling you have never had a 1v1 fight with a good summoner (I may be wrong). But the fight quickly becomes 2v1, if you are stupid enough to have a servitor out, it can become 3v1, and the cubics are nasty as well, one stuns and the other debuffs (For PS). A skilled player may know how to handle a summoner, but having to fight the summoner and the servitor at the same time tends to confuse people at first and gives the summoner a slight advantage (this doesn't always happen).
Eh, sub a summoner for a while and try it out for yourself. ^^
don't get me wrong summoners own my main in alot of ways
i'm just not so sure that a solo summoner can compete with me and my 50 boxes for xp and since thats how most of us roll i think they have lost their role as the solo class
in pvp they are slightly less scary than the average dorf (except for WK)
give me a NG set of armor and an inventory full of pots and i should be able to run back to town or outpot your damage till my backup arrives
i deleted my second sub for a WK and as much as i am sick of nuking (got 170 lvls of nuker under my belt already) it appears thats what i will be doing till 55 (already have my spot picked out)
i tried to justify actually summoning something to get some xp but the fact that POF/dances/WCer buffs is unable to compete with the xp i get with emp 3 and a magic haste potion tells me its not worth it
In non oly pvp I agree with you, but I'd like to mention you can run away from a healer in open pvp to town as well. Why am I making this comparison? My clan is one of the most pvp orientated clans on my server and I usually end up using my buffpet for the nukers and OL's. An OL can spam CP heal and a nuker gains an uzi. I'm also a meatshield for nuker parties; they let me port first, they let me walk in corridors first (i.e. pagans). I have no trouble surviving from 3 buffed lvl 78 nukers due to UD, transfer pain and the best mdef in game (WC theoretically could get more but they don't do -4int+4men do they?). Additionally I can team-cure para, silence and stun - even myself if im para/silenced - very good for pvp!
Overall I don't feel as useful as a bishop or archer, though. But my clannies seem to appreciate my class, so I'm content.
As for pve; its not uber XP solo, no. But you can solo everywhere. I can solo in FoG, Dino Island and Varka Generals selfbuffed. It would be slow XP, but I can do it (i.e. quests). I have a PP 2box and it gets even easier with just my little 58 PP. Dino Island I need vr2 on my summon to have no downtime. I don't really see a nuker do all of this really. TOI10 etc is not really worth mentionning; thats an easy place.
In the end I prefer xp in FoG (aoe w/dest) because its just sick how much XP you get. Theres really no alternative (without having to setup some perfect party - fog only needs pp,sws outside team and dest), so why not go for a fun class?
Also I think not many people know ES can selfbuff PoWa and CoV, PS PoWi and CoV and WL PoF and CoV at 77/78. My summon has around 3k-3.5k patk with the critrate and accuracy of a blunt weapon. My nuker summon (ES selfbuff PoWa and Emp3) nukes for more dmg then a spellhowler, just VERY slower. It's useful, but not as useful as the buffpony in mass pvp I guess.
You do realize NC nerfed the dmg our pet does in pvp by 30% and de-levelled enchanted summons in C5 right? My dmg is much greater in pve due to that stupid pvp dmg nerf. You just hear less because there isn't a large summoner community to whine against NC, but try nerf your patk by 400 and make it 30% less effective in pvp and see the reaction of a class that is played a lot, lol. They would have to tighten security in HQ.
You do realize NC nerfed the dmg our pet does in pvp by 30% and de-levelled enchanted summons in C5 right? My dmg is much greater in pve due to that stupid pvp dmg nerf. You just hear less because there isn't a large summoner community to whine against NC, but try nerf your patk by 400 and make it 30% less effective in pvp and see the reaction of a class that is played a lot, lol. They would have to tighten security in HQ.
That -30% dmg was a sad sad day in the summoner community. I would love to see NCsoft give back our real attack and see what these people think of summoners in PvP.... :(
Also I think not many people know ES can selfbuff PoWa and CoV, PS PoWi and CoV and WL PoF and CoV at 77/78. My summon has around 3k-3.5k patk with the critrate and accuracy of a blunt weapon. My nuker summon (ES selfbuff PoWa and Emp3) nukes for more dmg then a spellhowler, just VERY slower. It's useful, but not as useful as the buffpony in mass pvp I guess.
TBH I think people look at summon stats and go "**** thats weak.."..
When in reality its *monster* stats, not like *player* stats, and hell no thats not weak.
Heck, the level 80 pony is walking around with 5k M.atk can can one shot group mobs, its just sick.
with the cast speed of a minus wit dorf and the crit rate... of a dorf
As said before the stats are monster stats, not player stats. You cannot read the critrate as the critrate of a player. I do agree they don't crit a lot, but you can't compare it to players at all. For reference: http://l2p.bravehost.com/summon.html
My CoV/PoF-ed summon _always_ takes aggro from long(er) fights from medium DD's like BD, dagger. This is why I'm (well uh not me exactly - my pony) usually tanking in for example pagans. Sure it has 600 pdef, yet I hardly have to heal it against lvl 80 mobs with just VR dance. Try put a robe user in that position. Something smells fishy about those monster stats. How many robe users can tank dino island mobs?
Another good example is fotd; takes me 4 pony melee hits to kill a warrior @ circle, one hit if it crits (no BD dances; just PP buffs). This equals my pre-critdmg nerfed HE with the same p.atk playing there: 3-4 arrows or 1 crit. Now use my HE against a player and the summon is suddenly something you can ignore with just CP pots :angry:
I'll stress again though: in mass pvp its the buffpet and the tank ability that is the most useful.
source?
i will admit that summons seem to crit more than their lol 50 base crit rate would allow but afaik their stats are meant to work the same as normal PC stats
By "owners" do you mean the whole clan that owns the fortress/CH/castle, or just the leaders of the clans that own them? I hope it is the whole clan...
I don't meet a lot of summoners, I think I know about.. 2.. who play one as their main in my ally. Both you'll find mostly working on their sub.
Don't know much about them, but their stats definately make me o.o at times. One of my clannies often sets up crystal/book rifts, and when he starts building the party he will ask for destros, summoners, or "other dd's". Whether this is clever or nub I've no idea, but I wouldn't be surprised if a summoner can out-dps an archer/dagger/nuker in a miniraid without game over'ing if ("when") he gets agro.
No idea though. I give them props, that's for sure, if not just because they're more likely to be the kinda people who pick a class based on what they enjoy playing and not how much it pwntatoes.
Shame to see how they're primarily boxed due to the summon ability, and is one of the things which has me kinda losing faith in NC trying to remedy the boxing situation at all.
I think the reason why they are boxxed so often is the same reason buffers are boxxed so often. No one likes to play them. Summoners level slower than Nuker/Archers solo. I know they can kill group mobs with level 79 summons and they have good surviveability, but a nuker and archer with a buffbox will still outlevel a summoner with a buffbox up until S Grade. I didn't bother leveling up a PS because, well, 30% Servitor FTL :(
To add onto that, at 56+ if you want to level fast (like, as fast as a nuker at VoS/Archer at FP/etc.) you have to join parties and the summoner is basically relegated to BD/SWS status, clicking their buff every 2 minutes. Boring. Adding the support servitors is both a boon and a detriment because people ignore the Summoner's DD capabilities many times and force them to relegate themselves to Support.
I guess this is where Necros have the best of both worlds. They have their nukes and debuffs, and a Servitor Heal that does about 500[+] HP a pop, but lack the other bits that cause people to dislodge them from their primary role in parties.
Summoners own, but NCSoft changed their vision and now they are riding the fence.
Magnus indeed has nice nukes, but it's useless when you're stuck in a nuke group that demands Seraphim for the buff. Same for Warlocks and PS.
I can't comment on the gameplay of Warlocks and Elemental Summoners. But I love my Phantom Summoner. Absolutely the most dynamic class I have ever played. While yourself as the summoner can't do much more then wack your weapon and throw on some Wind Shackle, your summons are absolutely fantastic.
Shadow pet: 15% Vampiric Rage. With the addition of beast soulshots you can earn catacomb exp solo at a pretty darn good rate. Lovely pet for x2+ hp mobs. Good damage and decent defence. Somewhat cheap in crystals but very expensive in shots.
Soulles: Fast moving, hard hitting, ae poison and corpse explosion pet. Hits like a mack truck I have pulled aggro from just most with this. For your typical openfield exp, this one just simply rocks and at 10% exp drain, I doubt there are many classes that can beat or match me. Using C-Crystals it somewhat expensive to use but its A LOT cheaper on SS compared to the shadow. Overall, under most conditions, I feel that this pet is the most economical.
Nightshade: Getting love in CT1 with a fat 30% boost to P and M. Def. Basically this pet is much like your on personal paladin pet. You have taunt, AE Taunt and a Sacrifice like skill. The heal is super fast cast time and the amount of hp you loose you can easely restore as summoner. I have not grouped with anyone who didnt love this pet. Party whipe? Naah, With ae taunt and Ultimate defence on the pet, I can get any party a really good chance of recovering from a bad situation. Also, while somewhat expensive, I can always just resummon it should it run out of hitpoints. I have an almost infinitiv "mp" for healing with it, the only downtime is the resummon.
Cubics: Every darkelf debuff rolled up in a neat little box. Hex, Powerbreak and Wind shackle. Comes in person and group form. Again I havn't grouped with anyone who didnt find the cubics usefull. Once you have 3+ players attacking a mob, chances are pretty high that it will have atleast 2/3 of the debuffs.
The personal stun cubic is a winner aswell. Very high landrate on the stun and pretty good fire rate. Expensive for everyday use, but it sure does rock when your doing high hp mobs.
All in all, I love my summoner. I feel that its so much more flexible then most classes. The only negative side is that a lot of people just don't have a clue about your class and what it is you can do. Countless times I have been asked, what is the blue thing over my head? Who is healing me? and so forth.
So yeah, I wouldn't trade my PS for anything not even one of the other summoners.
Yeah I'm pretty much the only EM on server that plays their EM and not their sub 0_o My sub is still 75 and 0.01% (got it for noble/hero, and 2nd sub is 40..)
Don't agree to the "no fun" thing though. Obviously I think they are fun, or I would play my (overpowered) 75 HE sub. I pretty much soloed from 1 to 77, with some AOE parties in between (especially when there were no pet SS). With PP I'm not that far from a nuker or archer soloing in terms of XP. It all doesn't matter anyways, as fog aoe is 10 times better then anyone can solo. Now at 78 I have CoV for my summoner and take aggro from any melee DD with ease. I did not try against archers yet, but I bet they get aggro seeing my HE does way too sick damage anyways.
As for the buff pony, you don't have to use it in parties. I only use it in fog aoe so the destroyer gets a fast CoV and I get TP because I pull rooms too (its handy - mobs aggro the pet whom you put to go back to the destroyer after pulling, instead of munching on your own HP). Any other cases of teamplay I use my merrow for melee and always take aggro. It gives the healer/recharger a break too, since I can manage healing it myself. Combined tank, healer, summoner (for new teamies) and medium DD is a nice thing to have in a party. I never got anyone telling me to use Seraphim; that's forfeiting a lot of advantages of having a DD summon you as tank / secundairy tank: