Since Monday I have been playing the public test server on Lineage 2. After making the mistake of offering an opinion on the community message boards, I discovered there is a new deadly insult in the world of Aden. It is "Carebear".
It means, roughly, "mentally impaired glob of decomposing matter I scrapped off my boot after walking through a cesspool". Or maybe something less. I am sure there are overtones of sexual impotence or deviance, and insults to your parentage in there as well.
In equal strangeness, the highest compliment you can receive is "Hardcore". Which appears to mean, "Protector of the innocent, defender of the Faith".
Games are always a balance between being too easy and too hard. A "Carebear" player is someone looking for a fast fun game, that you can play for 15 minutes once or twice a week and find entertaining. A "Hardcore" player is someone who wants a lot of depth to their games. Something that can not be developed without the commitment of time.
Personally I am more "Carebear" than "Hardcore". To me a "Hardcore" game is one that you spend hours pushing one or two buttons in order to kill the same mob 2,000 times to complete one quest or get one rare drop, etc. That type of game only holds people who play for hours every day. The slow build up of games to that formula is like brainwashing. If you ever come up for air, (take a couple days off), you don't go back. Since that kind of repetition is not fun at all. Remember that South Park episode where the boys were grinding (killing boars for days on end) warcraft? They turned into zit covered, obese slugs that could barely move their fingers to play the game, and couldn't even make it to the restroom anymore, after eating Hot Pockets. That is my opinion of "Hardcore".
Of course "Carebear" has it's own faults. If a game is too easy, it too will not hold your attention. Although it may be fun to play for that first 15 minutes, if there is no carrot in front of you, you are just as likely to try another game, as go back to that one. The web Games on Yahoo are perfect examples of this type, (with the exception of chess, but that game is a world of it's own and has been for centuries).
For financial reasons game makers should be making games that are more carebear then Hardcore. Although a game that was both would be the perfect solution. I say this because there are far more people able to devote 15 minutes to a game then individuals that can play 140 hours out of the 168 hours in a week. Especially people who can pay. Since if you are playing a game 20hrs a day, when are you working? The main group of people who could do that are children.
"Hardcore" players love to say "Poor players are poor by choice" or similar. This is a direct quote from _Charmille_ On the Lineage 2 boards. And yet hardcore players win, not by their wits, planning or reflexes, but simply by the application of time. _Charmille_ goes on to say "Don't they have as many hours in their day as we do?" And the answer to that is No. We all have very different demands on our time, leaving us with very different amounts of time that can be devoted to killing boars.
Unless _Charmille_ is talking about botting and ebaying. However both are forbidden by the ELUA.
P.S. I did not intend any slight against _Charmille_. I cut and pasted this off another blog. After Reading the first responses, I realized I should have edited his/her name out. I am using his/her quote here only to show that "Hardcore" is time. I think even _Charmelle_ will agree that He/She is a "Hardcore" player.
Huh? You go on a long rant like that and in the end it turns into a personal flame, implying that a fairly well known player is an ebayer? You, sir, are a failure. I believe I'd know if my brother over there in the next room was ebaying or botting. He has a job, a life and he goes to a uni. Same as I do, yet I still manage to play enough to finally reach lvl 75 and pretty soon 76. If you're seriously stupid enough to think that to make money in L2 requires you to actually sit there, you are really playing the wrong game. If you can't keep your computer on for the night to have a buy shop/sell shop, sucks for you. Also, news flash: to gain levels in this game, you indeed do have to hit two buttons and kill the same mob 2000 times in a row.. And I think everyone has the same 24 hours in their days too.
There is nothing HARD in L2, it just takes time. I don't really understand why you even posted that, or what the hell your point is :)
I'll be blunt...I don't like this topic for a lot of reasons:
A. Definitions of Hardcore vs. Carebear are as varied as the people who use the terms.
B. Everyone has their priorities and they are as unique as the individual. Short of criminal violations someone's priorities are just that: their priorities. I don't fault people for what they do or don't do not because a case can't be made against them, but because it's completely pointless.
C. What's your question? What are people supposed to be responding to? What's being debated? Or...is this just a thinly veiled slam on Charmille?
I am not a fan of Charmille, but you're talking about one person saying something on an internet forum to another person in regards to a videogame. Sticks and stones...
L2 is a game that lets the players sort out their own problems. NCSoft rarely(ever?) gets involved in what takes place on the servers and the ruleset all but dictates in block lettering that might makes right. Got a problem with Charmille? PK that [censored]. No? Then try not to let it get to you and move on.
By EULA >.> Are you perhaps an forum alt of Piro? If you would have read further, I did state that I have a job(with very demanding hours) social life and then some uni stuff too. But hey, it is always nice to be part of the starting speech :)
You've also made one big mistake in your post so far. Carebear is used commonly to describe people who dont want to PVP or feel that there is something wrong in the current PVP system. It has nothing to do with how much you play. The term you were seeking would be casual, which is the term used to describe people who have very limited amount of time to play this game or who go with a very slow pace by their own choosing.
You can be carebear, casual or hardcore, but it will not change the fact that unless you work for it, you will be poor. Poor players _are_ poor by choice. Even with 1h per day playing, you can amass way more adena than you will need to sustain that playstyle.
Games are always a balance between being too easy and too hard. A "Carebear" player is someone looking for a fast fun game, that you can play for 15 minutes once or twice a week and find entertaining. A "Hardcore" player is someone who wants a lot of depth to their games. Something that can not be developed without the commitment of time.
Difficulty in a game has nothing to do with being "carebear" or "hardcore". L2 is not, in any way, shape or form, a "difficult" game. Anyone can level a toon from 1 to 80, if they can stave off the boredom long enough. You could, technically, even do it with your newbie gear (though the cost in pots would be incredible).
Many people decry Everquest as "carebear" because, on the majority of its servers, PvP is consensual-only. However, as far as time-investment is concerned, it can be on par with L2 in some instances. It also has a much deeper storyline, more involved quest-lines, and an item database that puts this one to shame. I have more unique shoes for my level 10 alt in EQ than there are items in all of L2.
The real difference between being "carebear" and being "hardcore" is a matter of attitude. The "carebear" player tends to avoid PvP for the sake of PvP, will avoid cheating and scamming other players, and has, generally, a socialble attitude towards other players. The "hardcore" player does not.
dont be too hasty here, remember that in some places of the U.S. and Canada old aged homes are giving their residents a Wii. and to many people's astonishment, a LOT of the residents have taken up Wii for onnline play.
there are Bowling Tournaments held Online now for some citizens of Ontario.
hardcore isnt an age thing. the working poor class of North America are NOT the people who become great at a time or Money investment. and contrary to popular belief, no, the majority of North America are NOT working poor. the majority are middle class mid-tier laborers with two incomes. Hardcore is a term for a minority - both in game and out of game. you "become" hardcore the more time you spend in game clicking mobs/noobs. to this end, those that strive to _BE_ hardcore but can't spend the time away from work devote the first part of the game to the bot programs and other forms of cheating.
what you should be concerned with, however, is not who is hardcore. its how you intend to compete.
there are a few that CAN be uber but chose not to. and there are some that stick-to-legit means of levelling and just bide the time until those with no lives give up waiting and /quit.
Call me carebear (or hardcore) but when a thread turns to having one poster make accusations of the others, I'm done with it. There's l2orofice errr blah for that.
Although i think it's quite clear to everyone that i'm not a very big fan of Charmille :) i dont really see the point of this thread... Why such a personal attack ?
And, yes, Charmille's right, the word you were looking for is casual, not carebear.
I'm surely casual, but i'm surely not carebear, i love PvP, even if i lose 99% of the time because i lack the experience and the lv to really compete, but i do love the rush of adrenaline you get when you see dozens of toons rushing towards you and trying to get your castle :p
Since Monday I have been playing the public test server on Lineage 2. After making the mistake of offering an opinion on the community message boards, I discovered there is a new deadly insult in the world of Aden. It is "Carebear".
It means, roughly, "mentally impaired glob of decomposing matter I scrapped off my boot after walking through a cesspool". Or maybe something less. I am sure there are overtones of sexual impotence or deviance, and insults to your parentage in there as well.
In equal strangeness, the highest compliment you can receive is "Hardcore". Which appears to mean, "Protector of the innocent, defender of the Faith".
Games are always a balance between being too easy and too hard. A "Carebear" player is someone looking for a fast fun game, that you can play for 15 minutes once or twice a week and find entertaining. A "Hardcore" player is someone who wants a lot of depth to their games. Something that can not be developed without the commitment of time.
Personally I am more "Carebear" than "Hardcore". To me a "Hardcore" game is one that you spend hours pushing one or two buttons in order to kill the same mob 2,000 times to complete one quest or get one rare drop, etc. That type of game only holds people who play for hours every day. The slow build up of games to that formula is like brainwashing. If you ever come up for air, (take a couple days off), you don't go back. Since that kind of repetition is not fun at all. Remember that South Park episode where the boys were grinding (killing boars for days on end) warcraft? They turned into zit covered, obese slugs that could barely move their fingers to play the game, and couldn't even make it to the restroom anymore, after eating Hot Pockets. That is my opinion of "Hardcore".
Of course "Carebear" has it's own faults. If a game is too easy, it too will not hold your attention. Although it may be fun to play for that first 15 minutes, if there is no carrot in front of you, you are just as likely to try another game, as go back to that one. The web Games on Yahoo are perfect examples of this type, (with the exception of chess, but that game is a world of it's own and has been for centuries).
For financial reasons game makers should be making games that are more carebear then Hardcore. Although a game that was both would be the perfect solution. I say this because there are far more people able to devote 15 minutes to a game then individuals that can play 140 hours out of the 168 hours in a week. Especially people who can pay. Since if you are playing a game 20hrs a day, when are you working? The main group of people who could do that are children.
"Hardcore" players love to say "Poor players are poor by choice" or similar. This is a direct quote from _Charmille_ On the Lineage 2 boards. And yet hardcore players win, not by their wits, planning or reflexes, but simply by the application of time. _Charmille_ goes on to say "Don't they have as many hours in their day as we do?" And the answer to that is No. We all have very different demands on our time, leaving us with very different amounts of time that can be devoted to killing boars.
Unless _Charmille_ is talking about botting and ebaying. However both are forbidden by the ELUA.
P.S. I did not intend any slight against _Charmille_. I cut and pasted this off another blog. After Reading the first responses, I realized I should have edited his/her name out. I am using his/her quote here only to show that "Hardcore" is time. I think even _Charmelle_ will agree that He/She is a "Hardcore" player.
"Hardcore" players love to say "Poor players are poor by choice" or similar. by _charmaille_
LOL. What about the botter/farmers? they are uber hardcore doing nothing and become rich. That quote doesn't apply to this game. this game is not hardcore at all anyway.
Well, I have been aggreeing with Charmille all day, so I will come to the defense. I am a semi hardcore player, and people are poor because they choose to be. I say semi hardcore, because sometimes I play 4 hours a day, sometimes I dont play at all. I generally make my money from fishing or manoring. Now, I can pull in about 5 mil adena on a slow week, and the funny thing is most of that comes from times where I only get about 30 minutes to play. I go fish and chat with clannies, or go manor on my manoring alt. The point we were trying to make in the other. thread before it got locked for the reason this thread was apparently started is that you dont need to have a lot of time, you just have to commit the time you do have to it, and you can make money. Ok, bash away I guess. (Before you say I don't have a job or a life, I work 45-50 hours a week, go to school and manage various other social activities like going out with friends, using my hockey season tickets etc., as well as play Lineage 2).
In terms of money, the richest players I know are pretty open about getting regular withdrawals from paypal, and have bright glowing weapons (even a red one! :o). If you want to be rich, if you want top equipment, if you want to rule pvp, it's easy to get and they'll deliver to fit your limited playtime schedule. :p
Is that hardcore or what?
If you're going that route, that in game richness or time has anything to do with hardcore/carebear, then WoW is a much more hardcore game than lin2. The only way to top raid gear is to be on a successful raid team. But WoW made millions by being famously easy, the very opposite of hardcore.
Anyway...
Carebear = "still at least half a decent brain"
Hardcore = "zombie"
So that's totally logical that Hardcore are mad at Carebears, they want to eat theirs brains! :D
Anyway...
Carebear = "still at least half a decent brain"
Hardcore = "zombie"
So that's totally logical that Hardcore are mad at Carebears, they want to eat theirs brains!
Anyway...
Carebear = "still at least half a decent brain"
Hardcore = "zombie"
So that's totally logical that Hardcore are mad at Carebears, they want to eat theirs brains! :D
Anyway...
Carebear = "still at least half a decent brain"
Hardcore = "zombie"
So that's totally logical that Hardcore are mad at Carebears, they want to eat theirs brains! :D
L2 was my first MMO :p
Now that's embarrassing!
I mean, not the accumulation of quotes, but where do you pull out your mention of AC from? :confused:
Source?
****, I need to start a "Not fan of Charmille" -fanclub :P
Haha you gotta admit, either positive or negative, you do leave quite an impression on people :p
And considering that even a Negative Publicity is better than none at all, it's sure fun throwing a stick into the fire to see how much longer/brighter it will burn =)
quote from wikipedia:
"Some elements of the Care Bears franchise pay homage to the legend of King Arthur. For example, the name of the main characters' residence, Care-a-lot, is a play on King Arthur's legendary Camelot castle. The Care Bear Family sits around a heart-shaped table, similar to the Round Table used by Arthur and his knights. In addition, Sir Lancelot's name inspired that of Love-A-Lot Bear"
****, I need to start a "Not fan of Charmille" -fanclub :P
I wanna join :p . But only if you're present at all meetings. j/k
Now, question, who cares?
I remember a quote from a very ret***** picture with a fluffy bear: "This little bear may care, but the rest of us don't give a f...".
In my book, carebear is an insult, as this is what it is used for, and the mental state involved is "to insult".
Hardcore is just that, hardcore, playing with a pereverence that is not specific to other players more casual, hardcore. So hardcore can't really be opposed to carebear but more to the "casual" term.
What I have to disagree with is someone calling someone else a carebear for not pvping them. Why? You can't duel? Oh wait, then you can't add +1 ? Or what? That's plain stu..pendous.
I have to agree; anyone is hardcore if they spend a lot of time in anything (not limited to videogames). pvp/pve have nothing to do with it.
IMO a hardcore player can be carebear however. Since hardcore only defines his/her dedication he or she can still be a person not wanting to fight anyone and just enjoy a pve world in a pvp game.
Any combination is possible. Casual carebears would be ppl logging in now and then to pve a little, Hardcore carebears would be the lvl 80/80/80 guys who don't pvp/nearly don't, Casual aggresive would be the person logging in now and then to pvp (probably perma-reds or ppl who botted since they don't enjoy pve). Aggresive hardcore are the typical "clan breakers" who join raid/pvp clans and hop to the next because they selfdestruct due to their innate behaviour :p
Using above theory I'd define me as hardcore leaning a lot towards carebear. I do pvp whenever I can, but I'm not aggresively seaking and even though I've been pvp "officer" in some alliances I usually solved stuff politically without bloodshed. Funnely enough my ingame friends typically define themselves as a lot more aggresive :)
What I have to disagree with is someone calling someone else a carebear for not pvping them. Why? You can't duel? Oh wait, then you can't add +1 ? Or what? That's plain stu..pendous.
What I can't understand is why a lot of people refuse to PvP on the PTS.
Ok, you may die, but then kill 1 mob and your back where you was, xp wise. There is 0 fun in killing mob after mob. Killing players is 'usually' a challenge, especially on live servers where the BSOE scrolls are running rampant.
What I can't understand is why a lot of people refuse to PvP on the PTS.
Ok, you may die, but then kill 1 mob and your back where you was, xp wise.
You may turn red as well, and then say bye-bye to your traveller's weapon.
There is 0 fun in killing mob after mob. Killing players is 'usually' a challenge, especially on live servers where the BSOE scrolls are running rampant.
Come on, there is 0 fun in killing kamael after kamael.
Sir Lancelot's name inspired that of Love-A-Lot Bear
That must have been one ***** bastard :p
heh -- as a parent I'm curious what goes thru the minds of people who create stuff like that. Whether it's carebears or telly-tubbies or my lil pony or whatever, the stuff is so flagrantly fay, you have to know that people are gonna turn on it.
Gotta pity the nerdy kid who brings a masters of the universe or star wars lunch box on the bus with the big kids.
Games are always a balance between being too easy and too hard. A "Carebear" player is someone looking for a fast fun game, that you can play for 15 minutes once or twice a week and find entertaining. A "Hardcore" player is someone who wants a lot of depth to their games. Something that can not be developed without the commitment of time.
Difficulty in a game has nothing to do with being "carebear" or "hardcore". L2 is not, in any way, shape or form, a "difficult" game. Anyone can level a toon from 1 to 80, if they can stave off the boredom long enough. You could, technically, even do it with your newbie gear (though the cost in pots would be incredible).
Many people decry Everquest as "carebear" because, on the majority of its servers, PvP is consensual-only. However, as far as time-investment is concerned, it can be on par with L2 in some instances. It also has a much deeper storyline, more involved quest-lines, and an item database that puts this one to shame. I have more unique shoes for my level 10 alt in EQ than there are items in all of L2.
The real difference between being "carebear" and being "hardcore" is a matter of attitude. The "carebear" player tends to avoid PvP for the sake of PvP, will avoid cheating and scamming other players, and has, generally, a socialble attitude towards other players. The "hardcore" player does not.
Yea, and if people think leveling a toon to 80 in Lineage II is hard, they should go level a toon to 75 and max out their Alternate Advancement points (they add some every update, or almost every update) in EverQuest.
Forget buying gear, you have to be fairly hardcore to get the best gear in the game. NO DROP items aren't sold in Bazaar - sorry :(
Carebear players run around looking for items in Lineage II.
Hardcore players spend 5-8h a night raiding 5-6 (sometimes 7) nights a week in EverQuest hoping their *rare* item will drop and they will be able to outbid the other person who is same archetype/class in the guild for it with the DKP system that most guilds use in that game.
Hopefully you get the drop before the guild moves on to bigger and better things.
Many casual players actually play Lineage II BECAUSE of some of the design of the game. You really aren't all that "tied" to a clan or alliance to progress in Lineage II. You can buy everything from basic gear to lifestones to boss jewels to weapons to SA crystals, Ancient Adena, etc. You can solo to max level, OE your skills, buy top gear and boss jewels and do what you want to do - by yourself/on your own. That is, if you have the time, proficiency, market savvy, and [in some cases] Luck.
That makes L2 rather carebear in comparison to other MMOs.
You can even use your level 76+ skills when you delevel a level in L2. God forbid I deleveled from 70 to 69 in EQ during a raid. I just lose 200+ DPS on my Necro (No Dread Pyre, Ancient Curse, Ancient Tap, and I couldn't even equip most of my gear since it was raid gear and had Required: Level 70 on it.)
Lineage II has very little depth, there is really not much to complain about IRT Casual/Carebear/Hardcore playstyles.
Well said... and I remember doing those mini-raids in pre-OoW EQ for my Planar armor, before then Ragefire before he was a trigger, later the Fabled camps (27 hours in L'Guk for the Fabled FBSS and Fabled SSOY)....
Carebear has nothing to do with casual. IMHO carebear is being 30 lvl and when you hear "RED outside DION" you ran to help no matter what the PKer's level while on the other hand when someone flags you you dont respond to his/her flag.
On the other hand, in EQ it was against the rules to scam, if someone kill-steals you, you can't PK them. It's against the rules to train people and a whole bunch of other things that fall into the "Play Nice!" category.
Puh! I am I HARDCORE CareBear, and that takes a lot more than som FOTM. Any major DPS class is just an excuse for saying I lack the power to frak even "My" Self!"
On the other hand, in EQ it was against the rules to scam, if someone kill-steals you, you can't PK them. It's against the rules to train people and a whole bunch of other things that fall into the "Play Nice!" category.
Not really. "All trades are final", as one of the log-in messages stated.
Yes, it was against the PNP to train someone, but, then, so was KSing someone in the first place. Besides, if you really wanted to train someone, it wasn't hard to arrange it accidentally. LGUK AOE parties come to mind.
IMHO carebear is being 30 lvl and when you hear "RED outside DION" you ran to help no matter what the PKer's level while on the other hand when someone flags you you dont respond to his/her flag.
If you're not PvP-buffed, let them flag, since they're probably stacked to PvP. If they do like 1 damage, you're being baited for the +1. If not, let them kill you, at least then there's the slim chance to catch them Red at 6+.
I've never claimed to be anything other than Carebear.
Having said that, just because I suggest its generally a better tactic to engage in PvP only when one is prepared for PvP doesn't mean I follow my own advice. It is, however, sound tactical advice. Fight on your terms, not the terms of the enemy, to paraphrase Sun Tzu.
I have also, as previous posts on these forums will attest, never claimed to be free from hypocrisy.
You are dropping players/bots on your SE? kewl, how?
Hey, give us SE players a little slack.
I'm confident that if someone is AFK that I could prob'ly kill them on my SE. Well, given a mountain of SS and maybe GSAP I can at least keep up with their hp regen rate. :mad:
Carebear has nothing to do with casual. IMHO carebear is being 30 lvl and when you hear "RED outside DION" you ran to help no matter what the PKer's level while on the other hand when someone flags you you dont respond to his/her flag.
I am a socalled carebear because I don't PvP, but if I spot a red player and he/she tries to kill me I will go after them no matter what the lvl difference is. Because I know that if he/she kills me it will only mean +1 PK and more karma as you don't flag when attacking a red player.
So what if a players flags? If he/she wants me dead then go red, but while the player is red I will port out to same spot and hunt him/her down. If I win the fight he/she looses 4% (unless he/she has clan hall) and if I loose he/she gets +1 PK and more karma and I loose another 4%.
I have so far never BSoE'd from players I knew where after to kill me...heck I even unequip my armor and HP up weapon to help them kill me faster lol (SP is always needed). How many of you socalled non-carebears have chosen a death instead of BSoE from an un wared player? Why are you ALWAYS standing at the gate (fully buffed with buff pets outside the arena ofcourse) at the arenas and kill everyone, but as soon as someone fights back you run out to not get killed...does that make you more brave than a carebear that don't want to PvP in the open?
Offer me a duel or a fight at the arena and I will show up, but open PvP where there are 3 fully buffed for PvP S graders with epics vs 1 that is exping in A grade with normal buffs (no CoV, PoW or PoF or what ever) and no epics I choose not to fight and let them go red instead...why fight back when you know you don't have a chance?
I managed to take out a 6x Necromancer that wasn't AFK. Use of terrain to interrupt spells, mana burn, rooting, erasing the pet, and then a set of duals and down he went.
I managed to take out a 6x Necromancer that wasn't AFK. Use of terrain to interrupt spells, mana burn, rooting, erasing the pet, and then a set of duals and down he went.
That is what I like about this game. If you play smart you can win a fight even with the worst class in the game.
edit: worst class doesn't have to mean SE. I know other classes that are worse.
PVP-wise, there are few classes as gimped as the SE if they're alone. I had to be REAL smart, and REAL careful. There was a certain bit of luck to it too, I'm sure.
I managed to take out a 6x Necromancer that wasn't AFK. Use of terrain to interrupt spells, mana burn, rooting, erasing the pet, and then a set of duals and down he went.
Yeah, it certainly can be done. I got owned by a Bishop once too. Sleep & Mana burn ftw =)
You can be a carebear and hardcore gammer at the same time, but you can't be a carebear and agressive gammer at the same time.
I'm a hardcore player (I play several hours a days) and I am a what you agressive PvP players like to call carebear whitch means I don't like to PvP. L2 is I would say 60% PvE (leveling and quests) and 40% PvP so what's wrong with PvE? Everyone does PvE.
lol, let me tell you, EVERYONE who plays L2 is carebear at some point in their heart. From the lv10 noob to the lv80 10x hero, they all are, trust me :p
Holy crap...that granny is my Mother in 15 years only its all about online games (L2, WoW) luckily she is in a seperate room so my kids dont hear her cursin like that lol
On the other hand, in EQ it was against the rules to scam, if someone kill-steals you, you can't PK them. It's against the rules to train people and a whole bunch of other things that fall into the "Play Nice!" category.
Carebear Cheer!
Do your research. EQ had a NO Rules OPEN PVP server called Sullon Zek which made KSing, Training, and even camping the entrances and exits to cities to kill people going in/out legal. The only thing that wasn't legal was using 3rd party programs and corpse camping people until their corpse decayed (i.e. you lose all items).
On the other PvP server, the person that killed you could loot a droppable item off you corpse (as well as your money) after he killed you.
In Lineage II, you have to wait for someone to go red now with 6+ Pks for them to drop anything.
Also, if L2's PvP was balanced and players didn't 1 shot you when you were outlevel'd and outgeared 50+% of the time, people wouldn't be running into town, and would be more apt to fighting on a whim and just for the fun of it.
I don't need a lesson about a game I played for almost 6 years in end-game guilds.
There is no point in being hardcore when the odds are heavily stacked against you, and you're almost certainly going to lose. People don't like to lose. This is a competitive PvP game. When you die at 3x alot, the people who killed you are most probably going to clown and ridicule you about it at 7x. It's called respect, and you hardly earn any when you get the short end of the stick.
For me someone is hardcore when in tough/risky situations he has the strength to go the hard way, someone who likes to take up the challenge. Carebear is someone who follows the easy mode.
Grinding alone in L2 is harcore because you have to be motivated to do it all the time. So the ones who bot in this game are carebear for me :P
Even if someone is not playing much but he has the strength to play L2 without entering unlegit way is hardcore for me.
In PVP the carebears are the ones running away from enemies when they have a chance of winning but also the ones who are killing weaker enemies than themselves just to show off.
Being a clan leader is also a bit hardcore because you have to deal with very fragile political situations and have the strength and patience to listen to clan members problems.
thats easy just make a slider bar like this
brave = charge in and get self killed
dead|--------brave---------------------wimp------------|alive
and maybe somewhere in the middle you put the intelligence slider so it can move up and down depending on how brave or how wimpy they are lol
So the ones who bot in this game are carebear for me
I agree strongly with this. All of the people that bot their characters are freaking noobs, and when i say noob, i dont mean just any noob, i mean like noobs that die from slipping on elpy skat.
Anyone who bots is nothing more than a crappy player, and no one can say that "they have to" because they want to be noble etc, because i have known many people noble, heroes etc that didnt bot at all, they played the game and reached there goals.
Harecore: Someone who works hard in-game, devotes time to there charaters and are successful in rising to a legit power.
Carebear: 1.Botters who cheat to be higher than everyone else so they dont have to feel bad by dieing so much they typcially log off 25% under what they started with.
2. someone who is scared to fight a fair fight in a pvp video game...
I don't really like _Charmille_ . Every comment she/he make is putting the other down. I guess because he/she is at the end game of L2 she/he is better then everyone.
My2c. To: _Charmille_ and everyone in this Board..PLEASE REMEMBER IS ONLY A GAME.
Yes, supposedly...what's really fun is to start killing off trains in a catacomb and see which of the "hardcore" players show up to defend it.
LOL yea, it's always fun to see the "hardcore" clans of the server come down with a full party in S grade just to kill 1 guy that can be 40 lvls lower than them. Some even drop clan just to PK you and then rejoin the clan the next day.
Even more fun is that the same clans claims that they are 100% legit and doesn't 01010101 or power level their chars with 01010101.
Anyone who bots is nothing more than a crappy player, and no one can say that "they have to" because they want to be noble etc, because i have known many people noble, heroes etc that didnt bot at all, they played the game and reached there goals.
Harecore: Someone who works hard in-game, devotes time to there charaters and are successful in rising to a legit power.
Carebear:
1.Botters who cheat to be higher than everyone else so they dont have to feel bad by dieing so much they typically log off 25% under what they started with.
2. someone who is scared to fight a fair fight in a pvp video game...
Not everyone who bots is a crappy player, some people bot because they don't have the time to devote like other younger players. Now is this the right course of action to take to keep up with the everyday grind? That depends on your personal morals and if you care if you cheat or not. Granted I will agree that a good deal of the people who bot are just lazy/crappy players. But then again botting your character to 70+ and not actually learning how to play it can cause this, side affect if you will.
Hardcore players are :
-People who know how to manage their time during the day in order to allow themselves hours to play.
-Kids with no lives what so ever after school who play until their parents kick them off
-Every Day people who just generally love the game and therefore spend a good deal of their time on it.
-Some of them are just flat out jerks that have no manners what so ever, and you end up asking yourself where is his mother, and why is an 11yr old saying words he shouldn't even know. (high-strung, stressed out, angry people)
Carebears players are:
-People who work a LOT during the day and when they log in they don't want to go PvP because they have had enough drama for the day at their job.
-Role Players who just don't really care about anyone else but their role playing friends. (props to all of you who have managed to maintain this game as an RP one)
-Are actually hardcore players who see no reason to boast their accomplishments because they don't need the satisfaction of stepping on others to be happy.
-People who just don't like to PvP
A HUGE misconception is that Carebears are "afraid" to PvP, where in actuality they just don't give a rats-[censored] about you enough to PvP you. Some Carebears are amazing PvPers because they KNOW how to play their characters from having a lot of practice. Just because someone doesn't feel the urge to run around shouting I'm better than everyone else, doesn't mean they don't know how to PvP or couldn't kick your butt in a fight.
Another HUGE misconception is that Hardcore players are slobs and have no lives. It's not that they have more hours to play the game it's that they manage their time better than you do. Granted, some people out there do have all the time in the world and play for hours on end because they have nothing else to do. Just because someone is able to devote a good amount of time into a game doesn't make them a "slob" it's makes them dedicated, for whatever reason they are, they are.
These words are just plains stereotypes with tons of different meanings that people don't consider because well hell we are humans and judge quickly don't we?
Carebears players are:
-People who work a LOT during the day and when they log in they don't want to go PvP because they have had enough drama for the day at their job.
-Role Players who just don't really care about anyone else but their role playing friends. (props to all of you who have managed to maintain this game as an RP one)
-Are actually hardcore players who see no reason to boast their accomplishments because they don't need the satisfaction of stepping on others to be happy.
-People who just don't like to PvP
A HUGE misconception is that Carebears are "afraid" to PvP, where in actuality they just don't give a rats-[censored] about you enough to PvP you. Some Carebears are amazing PvPers because they KNOW how to play their characters from having a lot of practice. Just because someone doesn't feel the urge to run around shouting I'm better than everyone else, doesn't mean they don't know how to PvP or couldn't kick your butt in a fight.
You hit it spot on...to bad no one else sees it like this :(
btw I didn't like how you started your post...there is no excuse what so ever why you shouldn't play the game the legit way, if you don't like the grind then play something else.
if you don't like the grind then play something else.
no apparently if you don't like the grind you should bot and then run around calling ppl carebear because for some funny reason they care about xp loss
hey being a carebear not a bad thing and to prove that go lvl a flipping dorf and have some nuker drop you in 2 or 3 shots just because they think they a great pvper then tell me why its bad to be a carebear and just in case some noob thinks of doing that to me i have a high lvl SH and will hunt your a ss down ;)
Rampantliones
IM ONLY CAREBEAR ON MY DORF AS IT TAKES ME LONGER TO GET 4% THAN ANY OTHER CLASS IN GAME BUT DOESNT MEAN I WONT FIGHT BACK SO BEWARE THE WRATH OF THE DORFS :P WE GOT LONG MEMMORIES ;)
I'm Not fan of Charmille (do I get join the club? :p) we don't see eye to eye mostly but I don't have a problem with her/him. However, with all you said this was basicly a stab at Charmille nothing more this post should just be deleted.
my 2 cents
Also Charmille is right Carebear is used commonly to describe people who dont want to PVP or feel that there is something wrong in the current PVP system
And I'm a Carebear yet I'm Hardcore also you don't get 5 70+ players playing casual.
if you don't like the grind then play something else.
no apparently if you don't like the grind you should bot and then run around calling ppl carebear because for some funny reason they care about xp loss
For once I agree with you...that is what most of the "hardcore" players are using as an excuse to call others for carebear or use the classical "QQ more" or "cry more".
Not everyone who bots is a crappy player, some people bot because they don't have the time to devote like other younger players. Now is this the right course of action to take to keep up with the everyday grind? That depends on your personal morals and if you care if you cheat or not. Granted I will agree that a good deal of the people who bot are just lazy/crappy players. But then again botting your character to 70+ and not actually learning how to play it can cause this, side affect if you will.
Hardcore players are :
-People who know how to manage their time during the day in order to allow themselves hours to play.
-Kids with no lives what so ever after school who play until their parents kick them off
-Every Day people who just generally love the game and therefore spend a good deal of their time on it.
-Some of them are just flat out jerks that have no manners what so ever, and you end up asking yourself where is his mother, and why is an 11yr old saying words he shouldn't even know. (high-strung, stressed out, angry people)
Carebears players are:
-People who work a LOT during the day and when they log in they don't want to go PvP because they have had enough drama for the day at their job.
-Role Players who just don't really care about anyone else but their role playing friends. (props to all of you who have managed to maintain this game as an RP one)
-Are actually hardcore players who see no reason to boast their accomplishments because they don't need the satisfaction of stepping on others to be happy.
-People who just don't like to PvP
A HUGE misconception is that Carebears are "afraid" to PvP, where in actuality they just don't give a rats-[censored] about you enough to PvP you. Some Carebears are amazing PvPers because they KNOW how to play their characters from having a lot of practice. Just because someone doesn't feel the urge to run around shouting I'm better than everyone else, doesn't mean they don't know how to PvP or couldn't kick your butt in a fight.
Another HUGE misconception is that Hardcore players are slobs and have no lives. It's not that they have more hours to play the game it's that they manage their time better than you do. Granted, some people out there do have all the time in the world and play for hours on end because they have nothing else to do. Just because someone is able to devote a good amount of time into a game doesn't make them a "slob" it's makes them dedicated, for whatever reason they are, they are.
These words are just plains stereotypes with tons of different meanings that people don't consider because well hell we are humans and judge quickly don't we?
This was a very good post, with the exception of the first part. Botting is never the right way in my book. I work my tail off in this game in the hours alotted to myself after work and taking care of my boy.
However, the rest of this post was just quite simply awesome. Well said!!
I'm not promoting botting, I'm just saying that some people who do, do it, do it for those reasons. Personally if it's against the rules I feel you shouldn't do it, but people do and theres nothing I can do about it. Reporting doesn't ahem ALWAYS work.
I'm not promoting botting, I'm just saying that some people who do, do it, do it for those reasons. Personally if it's against the rules I feel you shouldn't do it, but people do and theres nothing I can do about it. Reporting doesn't ahem ALWAYS work.
Not everyone who bots is a crappy player, some people bot because they don't have the time to devote like other younger players. Now is this the right course of action to take to keep up with the everyday grind? That depends on your personal morals and if you care if you cheat or not.
No, thats wrong. all people that bot are crappy players, either way you look at it. Im married, have a kid on the way, go to college, work full time and do other things with my life besides playing L2. Just because someone doesn't get 16 hours a day playing doesn't mean its ok to cheat. If it was the right course of action, then there would be a bot button in the game, or better yet, there wouldn't be levels, just open pvp. If thats what someone wants, then go play a game like that. Long story short, a lvl 65 legit is more hardcore and elite over a lvl 80 botter, cause he did something for his lvl.
It sure isn't L2 that makes the 11 year old that way.
PS Botters = losers, always. If you bot, it proves you don't have what it takes to make it legit. Everything else is just an excuse (not enough time, for example. Everyone in the world has the same amount of time, we just allocate it differently).
It sure isn't L2 that makes the 11 year old that way.
PS Botters = losers, always. If you bot, it proves you don't have what it takes to make it legit. Everything else is just an excuse (not enough time, for example. Everyone in the world has the same amount of time, we just allocate it differently).
you all are care bears because you talk in this topic...
hmm community forum kind of requires a community to talk about things like this :)
And if you had a tone would it be negative. If so, why, being a carebear is fun, you get to shoot rainbows out of your tummy. :D
Surprisingly my only really big concern about L2 is the corruption it causes on little kids :P
When you're sitting in town listening to an 11yr old cussing left and right and running his mouth, you start to get a little concerned.
On the other hand, this kid's parents have to be paying for his account, right?
The fault doesn't lie with the game, it lies with the parenting. My son has an account...he's not a big player of L2 at 15 years old, prefering FPS games.....however, I get on his toon every so often, as is my right since *I* pay for it, and see how things are. I get a lot of angry messages, then I know he's not doing right and I will immediately pull his account access. And he knows this. He's been playing online games for several years under my supervision, the rules are clear.
Just because this is a game, doesn't mean you should not show the players the same respect and courtesy you would show a real life person.