How the bots are influencing the adena economy?
Obviously they are pouring huge money in the game this changing the game balance:
From one side they put a downside pressure on the mats prices selling tremendous amounts of mats.
On the other side the money are sold to real players and they in the game should cause inflation. After the commodities prices are under downside pressure then the only way the surplus adena to be spent is by buyng top items. Which means the prices of the top items must be growing relatively quickly.
Which benefits the manufacturers. But they should spend their money on something. What?
How the bots are influencing the adena economy?
Obviously they are pouring huge money in the game this changing the game balance:
From one side they put a downside pressure on the mats prices selling tremendous amounts of mats.
On the other side the money are sold to real players and they in the game should cause inflation. After the commodities prices are under downside pressure then the only way the surplus adena to be spent is by buyng top items. Which means the prices of the top items must be growing relatively quickly.
Which benefits the manufacturers. But they should spend their money on something. What?
Here's the thing about an artificial economy like L2's:
Inflation is a direct result of the supply of money (in this case adena) in circulation. The more adena people have, the higher prices go, since the value of that same adena is lessened.
L2 has very few adena sinks, and the only ones I can readily think of is buying things like Soul Ore/Spirit Ore and certain functions like the NPC Blacksmiths, Gatekeepers and Skill Enchanting.
However, the prices of these goods and services is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the millions of adena generated every day in the course of regular hunting.
Buying an item from another player removes exactly 0 adena from the economy, it simply moves it from one player to the next.
What farmers do is two-fold, as you mentioned. First, they provide a nearly limitless supply of crafting materials, keeping prices on such things relatively low. Secondly, through the "black market" of Ebay, they provide a near-limitless supply of adena to those with the RL money to pay for it. This adena is, in turn, handed right back to the farmers when the Ebayer buys their materials or items, just to have the same adena re-sold and put right back into circulation.
Vicious circle, that.
Had RMT never come to L2, it would be a very different landscape on the servers, indeed.
Mats are not money. You have to sell them to players to get money from those.
Also i see some money sinks. I spend money on haste/acalarity/healing pots/seeds. The seeds actually cost money, i get mats which i sell which moves money around.
Actually there's a whole bunch of adena sinks, or ways of removing wealth (which matters more than adena) in the economy.
Ports, Pots, Shots, Scrolls. Shots are particularly notable because they remove real wealth (items/crystals) as well as adena.
Crafted items take a lof of gemstones. Crafted shots and some spells use spirit/soul ore.
When you apply a SA or augmentation, or take it off, that removes a bunch, too.
Craft failures and OE failures remove wealth. Especially OE failures.
As far as the role of farmers, like in RL they add real wealth by contributing to the GNP. Ebayers, like teenagers, remove wealth. Ideally, they do it at close to the same rate, so that our overall economy has a nice slow but steady growth.
you guys forgot that when you buy from npc stores, only about 85% of that adena is lost and the rest goes to the castles owners, same with port fees.
i hate to say that there should be more taxes to leech out excess adena because i dont want to pay more than i currently am to make soulshots or whatever.
many of the methods of removing adena from the market merely shift the adena source. IE, buying soul/spirit ore to make shots provides the seller with a profit.
the holloween event last year(pay 50k for a box with random loot) is actually making me a lot of money now from selling the hair accessories at 8x what i bought them for....
at the end of the day, its probably crafting fails that help the economy the most, even though its the most painful method.
Yet our timeless "Fiends" show us the true way of how to play this game. But NO, this game is too HARD, so we must bot buffers and use shots the entire time!
How the bots are influencing the adena economy?
Obviously they are pouring huge money in the game this changing the game balance:
From one side they put a downside pressure on the mats prices selling tremendous amounts of mats.
On the other side the money are sold to real players and they in the game should cause inflation. After the commodities prices are under downside pressure then the only way the surplus adena to be spent is by buyng top items. Which means the prices of the top items must be growing relatively quickly.
Which benefits the manufacturers. But they should spend their money on something. What?
get off the message boards don't post this crap again!
The shots are made by stuff bought at fixed prices from official shops; so no inflation for them;
On the other side FelineFury is correct - mats are not direct money. You need to pay for them with already earned money. So this only increase the downside pressure on the mats prices. But the money drops are not insignificant - even the low lvl mobs drop few hundreds. And this is limitless. Actually the real money in the L2 are not the adena, but the time. A player can earn some adena per hour grinding and he can increase this 2-3 times if he chooses the right mobs; but he cannot increase this limit 10 times. On the other hand the real player buys expensive stuff - like +16 staff for XXX zillions of adena. So the equation is "invest time to buy stuff". On the other hand the bots don't buy stuff and they have limitless time. Actually the time is not limitless - it is still 24 hours - but the bots are limitless - you can add for relatively small money 5, 50 or 500 bots. Actually there the real equation is the number of ppl willing to pay RL money for adena. So you can say the real money spent increase the inlfation in L2, not the bots itself.
But at the last it seems to me the only way the addional adena to be absorbed is to buy fancy enchanted stuff for huge money. Because what can be done with Staff of Life +16 can be done with just staff of Life too. You buy SOL +16 only of you have adena to spent in abundancy. So one of the real adena sinks is the overenchantment. If the adena supply gets out of countrol the only thing the devs must do is to reduce the chance of successful overenchantment.
With 60% chance of success the chance of +6 overenchantment is 0.6x0.6x0.6=0.216 or slightly over 21%. Only a 10% decrease the chance of overenchantment - from 60% to 50% gives chance of success 0.5x0.5x0.5=0.125 or almost TWICE less! This will increase the money sinks tremendously.
The shots are made by stuff bought at fixed prices from official shops; so no inflation for them...
WRONG. D/C-grade shot prices are subject to change according to the Castle tax of the region among other things. For higher lvl shots, the prices depend not only on Tax rates, but also on the current crystal prices on the market, which is a sum of many things. Overenchanting produces crystals, crafting produces crystals, mammon and castles can produce crystals. All are ways of bringing more crystals to the market. But, they have very different mechanics and prices involved in them. Not to mention that OE and craft crushing both also _remove_ crystals from the game since in both cases, there is a need for crystals to initially create the item.
For A/S-grade, higher mat prices usually result in higher crystal prices which leads to higher overall shot costs. Especially if the AA market prices are going up too, preventing any corrections to the prices with the use of mammon(he is way too expensive anyway).
B-grade shots have a "price roof" thanks to the possibility of producing B-grade items with NPC shops, but they too are subject to taxes and Material price inflation somewhat(if SOPs suddenly start selling for 60k, making dual SLS becomes much more expensive ^^). And usually it is cheaper to produce crystals with craftcrushing compared to using the NPCs. Especially when taxes are high.
OMG if there weren't bots teh prices wuld be 2 hiiigh!!!!1
Bots r necesseryyyy!!!!!
Another stupid thread about effect of bots on economy with the same old arguments. Already discussed, and still there are some people who are trying to bring a "new light" in the topic... yeah how could we play without bots, I really wonder... whatever...
You cast golden padlock.
3 S-Grade Crystal(s) have disappeared from your inventory.
The effects of golden padlock are flowing through the thread.
Not saying it can't be done... but the question is, would people want to? I, for one, lack faith in the altruism of other people. I have no doubts that, lacking the supply that currently exists, others would charge a premium for mats gathered in the "normal" manner.
get off the message boards don't post this crap again!
Getting tired of the bot discussions!
How about - there are a lot of people still new to the game, and THEY may be interested in this subject matter?
If you aren't interested in a particular thread/subject/whatever - why do you bother posting to it? ignore it and move on.
</2p>
The problem with this thread is there are a LOT of misconceptions. For instance, many of the money sinks listed (pots / shots) are NOT adena sinks, but ANCIENT ADENA SINKS. So whenever you spam a greater magic haste or a greater swift attack potion, you're getting rid of a lot of ancient adena, but very little adena. As for shots, a large part of the price comes from the crystals, which are also mostly gotten from the trade of mammon (i.e. ancient adena again). Thus, shot prices are VERY volatile and vary based on wether ancient adena is worth 1.4:1 or 5:1.
Secondly, cheap things like soul ore and spirit ore make really little difference in the grand scheme of things. Farmers work with this specific way: 1) they gather things players could not gather themselves. 2) they sell adena to those players to buy those things.
For example: back at the end of prelude / early c1, a katana (top sword at the time) was worth 6m, while 1m was worth around 30$, so a katana was worth 180$. Most (99%) of legit players couldn't afford a 6m weapon at level 40, so most katanas that we saw were obtained by ebay.
Nowadays, if we take a +3 drac bow / focus, it is worth roughly 800m on my server, and adena is worth about 27 cents per million, so a draconic bow is worth 216$ and is equally hard to obtain legitly as the katana was. That doesn't mean there are no legit people who owned katanas, and same goes with drac bows nowadays. But it is hard and requires a LOT of playing the market.
Same thing applies with epics. Farmers provide epics which most players couldn't obtain without cheating. Then they sell adena to those players to buy their epics. That way overall they keep the adena in their possession.
That's how they make their money. They put the prices of elite stuff so high that mostly only ebayers can buy them. That means that whenever someone buys one of those elite items, they will have bought it through ebay money, which means they made real life money selling their items.
Farmers don't really sell items, they lend you money that you will use to sell items. And in the grand scheme of things, the money sinks in this game are too little compared to how much money farmers are "lending" people.
So if a farmer "lends" 2b to someone and that person wastes 1m in spirit ore, 1m / 2b is pretty unsignificant.
That's how and why inflation is created. Ores and basic mats have about no weight in the matter of inflation. Recipes, blades and full items / epics are what's important and where real money is made by farmers.
One solution that I liked that an other game used, is they took the elite items and made no_trade no_sell versions of them that were easier to obtain, so the person who wants a REAL baium ring has to kill baium, but the one who wants a ring that does the same thing, could do a quest and get it easily. Except his cannot be traded / sold, so it has no real value. But it gives him an option other than ebaying if he wants to have a baium ring and be of competition also.
Okay, but D/C shots aren't ancient adena sinks. As far as I know B shots aren't either, you make them by making B duals from C grade swords. A and S shots could be only aa sinks.
The problem with this thread is there are a LOT of misconceptions.
Indeed.
So if a farmer "lends" 2b to someone and that person wastes 1m in spirit ore, 1m / 2b is pretty unsignificant.
Dunno about you, but I can easily waste 1m in spirit ore over a weekend. The adena drops alone more than cover these expenses, though, so I wonder how much adena (not AA, not boss jewels, not draconic bows, just plain adena) the bot train grinding without shots/major heals in the room nearby produces.