I Had a very frustrating evening a few weeks ago. I was trying to level up in NOS. Every room but three or 4 were occupied by bot trains. I finally after /petition a few times had the honor of speaking with a live GM. I was told to place my suggestions and questions here as they could not be answered by the GM.
So here goes..
#1 Why doesnt the Gameguard/Punkbuster block walker?
#2 If a company is using PMs to harass me, why not take that company to court and sue them for harassing your customers and causing them to leave, thus taking revenue away from NCsoft? Same for Companies selling adena. They are violating your EULA and Profiting from it.
I know there are lots of posts about this issue. I do not want to start a huge 900 response whine fest. I would just like the questions answered by the powers that be please.
Thanks.
Gameguard was never designed for l2xxxxxx (I thought) it was designed for keyboard hacks / loggers.
You must understand that the people behind l2xxxxx make a whole lot of money off of that program. They also use 3rd world programmers which are hella cheap. Put those two things together and there is no way NcSoft can outspend or out program something like that.
The other issue is that l2xxxx works with the current client, not as another client so by hiding in the memory of the machine, GG would need to be updated with the current signature of each version of L2xxxx. Since once that happens, the L2xxxx would need to change that part, they would, then it would be back to GG to do the same thing again.... The apporach to infinity gets nearer and nearer.
On the 2nd issue.
The people who allow others to ebay the adena are not the same people who are actually using the l2xxxx in game to help them. The sellers are actually middle men who faciliate the exchange of bits for money. Technically, they are not the ones doing anything wrong. Morally they are. To start law suits means money and lawyers. You also have mostly off shore sellers so trying to get a USA lawyer to sue someone in another country is very very difficult and would cost extreme amounts of cash which should be re-invested into the game (in my opinion)....
These are not super answers, but I belive they are quite factual and close to the truth of today.
#1 Why doesnt the Gameguard/Punkbuster block walker?
Because Texas Ranger does not have anything like that in itself. Firewall cannot block any traffic if you do not actually start the firewall program as well. So your question should be:
#1 How is it possible that you can connect to game server with unoriginal or modified client?
#1 Why doesnt the Gameguard/Punkbuster block walker?
L2Blah forum boards users would explain it better than anyone here and without the stress of being looked upon as a cheater and without fearing to get the thread locked.
Basically, it seems that there's a version of the illegal program which deals very well with gameguards packets in order to make believe GMs it is a regular client. I'm not sure HGM Spam would appreciate those details, so if he feels it's bad to post here what's openly discussed on L2Blah, just edit/delete this post.
For the second issue, I don't know how that works and all the problems they may encounter, so I won't make theories from my ignorance in order to blame or worship NCsoft.
I Had a very frustrating evening a few weeks ago. I was trying to level up in NOS. Every room but three or 4 were occupied by bot trains. I finally after /petition a few times had the honor of speaking with a live GM. I was told to place my suggestions and questions here as they could not be answered by the GM.
So here goes..
#1 Why doesnt the Gameguard/Punkbuster block walker?
#2 If a company is using PMs to harass me, why not take that company to court and sue them for harassing your customers and causing them to leave, thus taking revenue away from NCsoft? Same for Companies selling adena. They are violating your EULA and Profiting from it.
I know there are lots of posts about this issue. I do not want to start a huge 900 response whine fest. I would just like the questions answered by the powers that be please.
Thanks.
some things indicate to me your story is LIKELY full of lies.
1: a GM does not direct you to the official website to discuss botting programs.
2: a GM does not direct you to the official website to submit a support ticket for harrassment.
3: GM's refuse to answer GAMEPLAY related questions. not harrassment questions. bad press like harrasment is usually kept to a dull roar (pardon the pun) within the game. open accusations are bad for investors.
4: youre implying NCSOFT doesnt already sue people for loss of income. i suggest you look up the case in NC's and the FBI's case file publications regarding the closing of private servers. wasnt one guy sued for over a million dollars in lost revenue? i do believe so.
i am not saying i dont believe this is what happened to you, but it doesnt make a lot of sense. my dealings with GM's say otherwise. GM's may not be as smart as we would like them to be, but NCSoft is.
I am not interested in wether or not you call my story valid.
Infact, posts like yours are the last thing i was looking for.
I am asking for someone who is an official representative of NCsoft to answer my questions.
I value everyones theories in their answers, but i do not wish to start a long flame filled whiney thread as the rules ask i do not. Im just asking for some answers from an official.
Many people asked the same questions a lot of times and no one got answered. Either take the other players feedback or get out. Go play tabula rasa. :D
Unfortunately, you're pretty much only going to get comments from other players, as those responsible for GameGuard don't read these forums, nor do they play this version of L2. GG is a Korean import, just like the game itself.
In order to get answers from an official you will more than likely need to contact them off of the forums. Most often the 'powers that be' do nothing more in threads like these than lock them after a time. I am amazed at how often this is a new topic, you can find others by using your search feature. You will also, as you can see, get a lot of player based opinions on your questions and you are bound to get them on these forums. As these are the General Discussion forums, you are not going to be able to avoid getting, well, general discussion about your post.
If you dont want to start a long flame filled thread I would suggest picking a topic that hasnt been beaten to death already and, obviously by the countless other threads that go unreplied to by the 'powers that be', one that wont be answered by any officials.
The above mentioned thread might actually answer some of your questions, I didnt read through the stack of pages myself :)
Get some screenshots, go to the support site, report the bots, and attach some screenshots with your report. This is about the only way you're likely to get action. Be prepared to repeat this periodically.
Are you sure the GM directed you here? It seems more likely he told you to fill out a support ticket on the NCsoft web site. If he did direct you here it was most likely to get rid of you.
Thank you for your advice, All of the community members who posted here. What the GM said was you can try posting these questions and suggestions on the forum. I did and it seems they are going to go unanswered here as well. At least now if i have some negative thoughts about the service, I tried this first. I think the message is clear, this is just how it is and you can either take it or leave it. The rest is up to me. It is interesting how the community always justifies or slams situations on these forums with barely a word from someone official. Its almost like if we let them argue about it long enough they will forget what the question was in the first place. Thanks again and have fun in game
I would say from their side, if GMxxxx came in here and started to discuss this with you, it would turn into a round robin never ending thread until either Hell freezes over or you get your way. Some of the issues go back to the game design. Some issues go to the way players want to play vs how the game mechanics work. Some issues are because people have found a way to expolite the system. Same as in real life....
I gave you real life answers. You want an offical answer, well, write support, call support or do something. These are NOT the offical bi-directional communications between us and them. They monitor this, and in some cases step in when there is a cut and dry answer that does not effect game play, but I can't see as how answering you by an offical would accomplish much other than make you feel good or make you leave.
Gameguard doesn't really work, the things it really needs to block it doesn't. and it messes with completely unnecessary things, such as Firefox.
Gameguard is as far as i know not made for lineage, its made for a bunch of different things. so the chance of it getting an upgrade to actually work against the various bot programs out there is incredibly tiny.
And i don't think NC soft has any interest in stopping botters. they are making a fortune from the account fees that the bot accounts pay.
I still don't understand why people think gameuard is an anti-boting add on, it isnt. GameGuard was added to the lineage client to prevent passwords from being stolen by malware at internet cafes. This is important because the majority of Lineage 2 income comes from Korea, and the majority of Korean players play at internet cafes. The reason it tends to fudge other parts of your system when it is running, and sometimes gets caught as a virus or malware by filters is because of how it goes about checking to make sure there isnt a keylogger or other malware on the computer stealing your password.
Personally I hate it, but I also understand that NC Korea will probably never get rid of it, and NC NA probably does not have permission to remove it from the client side code(not sure about this part, or if it is even feasable). If you tend to run without an anti-virus/anti-spyware program then be glad it is there because it is probably saving your account from being hacked. If you have half a brain and have up to date AV and ASW programs then it is more of an annoyance, but you just have to live with it,
Six easy steps of getting rid of 3'rd party bot software safe and forever.
1. Make the server side code understand a few different network-packet data layouts. This code is in your hands, whoever is making the 3'rd party software does not know these possible layouts.
2. Make impromptu client executable updates that update the game to use network packets with a different data layout. This does not require a server restart since the server understands a few different layouts.
3. After the update, have the servers record the accounts that log in and use the "old style" network packet layout (that means they did not use the certified game client.. bannable offense according to EULA).
4. There's no need not take immediate action so you do not alert the 3'rd party software developers: do this over the course of a few weeks or even a month, gather a list, cross reference to see who is using 3'rd party software more and who is using it less. Make a chart if you want :).
Look, the automated player problem isn't a Lineage 2 only issue. Just about every mmo out there has these. The reason why it's so in your face in Lineage II. Is the fact that there is no instances where the "crew" can hide. If wow, Daoc and so on didn't have instances, the problem will would just as bad there. It is impossible for NC to combat the programmers. They work for next to no money and there are huge profits to be made so you a lot of money is put into making sure that various 3. party programs are always up to date and working 100%. Same goes for every other mmo out there
Well I still don;t see how the system described above would fail to work. Give me a valid logical reason why the steps above would not work :). Well i have already started this discussion is game suggestions :P, better reply there and not hijack this thread :).
A gm will most likely ignore a botting issue.
If the user persists in submiting petitions and the gm cant/wont do anything he'll direct him to the SUGGESTION forum, not GENERAL.
Nevermind that, the topic on the suggestion forum was locked. I can only draw the conclusion that a moderator has seen it, had no proper answer and decided not to answer and lock the topic instead. Utterly disappointing.
Six easy steps of getting rid of 3'rd party bot software safe and forever.
1. Make the server side code understand a few different network-packet data layouts. This code is in your hands, whoever is making the 3'rd party software does not know these possible layouts.
2. Make impromptu client executable updates that update the game to use network packets with a different data layout. This does not require a server restart since the server understands a few different layouts.
3. After the update, have the servers record the accounts that log in and use the "old style" network packet layout (that means they did not use the certified game client.. bannable offense according to EULA).
4. There's no need not take immediate action so you do not alert the 3'rd party software developers: do this over the course of a few weeks or even a month, gather a list, cross reference to see who is using 3'rd party software more and who is using it less. Make a chart if you want :).
5. Bam! ban hammer.
6. Repeat every month.
Is THAT easy. There is a way. Is there a will ?
Hmm I'm gonna post this in game suggestions :)
oh its quite easy detecting them. but if they suddenly start banning 2/3rds of the accounts that have botted they are going to lose a ton of money from subscriptions, and I'm afraid that for this reason alone, nothing will ever be done.