I don't know if it was posted somewhere else before. Didn't find something so far and I don't want to spend an hour searching.
All the stacking magic crit buffs turn out to be really annyoing. Especially Wild Magic augmentations. It's just overpowered. An unbuffed SH nuking 1000 mdef for 8600dmg each second shot is not what you can call pvp. The funny thing is with some luck nukers can have wm augment passive and active. You can get 100% magic crits that way easily. A friend told me a single nuker took out his 9 man pvp party incl. SWS same lv.
Physikal crit rate is maxed at 50%. So why is it possible for nukers to have 100% magic crits? Put a cap for it too. It's not funny to spend over half of your buffslots for mdef and resist buffs for not being a twoshot.
We've been over this before, but you need to be exceedingly lucky and/or spend A TON of adena to get a WM augment, passive/active/chance whereas the focus SA is 100% assuming you get the crystal for it.
There there are like 20 different resist nuker spell buffs, and resist arrow is only self buffable for a few non-pvp classes.
And that party had a sws in it and they lose 9 to 1??? LOL.. what were they, afk? crazy. Jewelry, song of warding, resist wind, resist fire, resist aqua, resist holy, resist unholy, divine protection, mental shield, etc etc etc. At least other classes have countering effects to mages that to me, balances the WM mess. Not to mention being robe wearing squishies.
The chance to get such an augment is low, that's right. But there are more people running around with this stuff than you think. With passing time there will be more and more. And once you get it it's a licence to [Censored]PWN everything. Tell me an augment a dagger would be so overpowered with to solo a party? Or an archer? Or what ever?
The chance to get such an augment is low, that's right. But there are more people running around with this stuff than you think. With passing time there will be more and more. And once you get it it's a licence to WTHPWN everything. Tell me an augment a dagger would be so overpowered with to solo a party? Or an archer? Or what ever?
See?
Valakas trinket is already licence to WTHPWN everything. Fortunately it's not for sale in every jonnys' shops.
Personally I don't thing one-shot is a good thing in PvP.
Physikal crit rate is maxed at 50%. So why is it possible for nukers to have 100% magic crits? Put a cap for it too. It's not funny to spend over half of your buffslots for mdef and resist buffs for not being a twoshot.
Magic critical damage is capped at x4 though, and in fact it cannot be modified in any way ( maybe with the new buff in CT1 to reduce critical damage. I don't know yet if it works on magic or only physical hits ). On the other hand physical critical damage has no cap at all and it can hurt lots when you stack the truckload of critical damage amplifiers available in the game.
I understand your point about needing lots of buffs to NOT be 2-shot by magic criticals... but hey guess what. When you're a nuker it's not fun to *not even have* any buffs that can save your skin from being 2-shot ( or in fact even 1-shot ) by most DDs either ^_^
If they cap magic critical rate then I will come moan for a cap for physical critical damage all day and all night :O
By the way 8600 damage on a m.critical hit would imply regular hits of 2150 so I firmly doubt that SH was unbuffed. You don't nuke for that much on 1000 m.def, in fact you would need a more than decent buff setup to achieve that and even then it would require to land both a surrender and a vortex first.
PS. Maybe that 9 dudes party was um you know... 9 of the letter soup friends that walk across all of Aden and Elmore. Either that or they were total and utter tards AND at least 20 levels lower than the nuker. Or they left their jewelry in their WH ( it is possible. It happened to me once ). Otherwise that just won't happen :)
every1 needs to stop crying... ncsoft isnt gonna do anything just cuz u guys r crying.
Yup. They have never done anything to reduce ridiculous archer damage, so why should they reduce (less) ridiculous nuker damage. Against a properly buffed opponent, a magic crit should not be more than 3-4k damage. That's about the same as a fully buffed archer crit on a robe user with proper (non-hero) buffs. And it's way harder to get a high magic crit rate, since lots of luck is involved in getting the augmentation, while you can just go to Giran and buy your drac/focus.
I'm not saying it's good that you can get a magic crit rate that high. But I do not think it is in any way worse than archer crits. Both need to go.
archers already got nerfed.
i dont crit 10k each shot anymore like before.
nukers r overpower.even without valakas or wm passive they crit well with pow+siren+wm.
in other hand main skill archers have to kill any nuker 1 vs 1 is stun.
but nukers can get stun resist on CH and jewel while rest of ppl cant get elemental protection on CH or from jewels.
Magic critics are overpwned. for exemple, i'm a fortuneseeker 79 with full tateo +3. in pvp i'd been 3 shoted by a sps (i don't remind the 3red class name) 79...
lol i had 15k HP+CP : 3 shoted. i even havdn't had time to reach my opponent : 3 magic crits in a row...
And that party had a sws in it and they lose 9 to 1??? LOL.. what were they, afk? crazy. Jewelry, song of warding, resist wind, resist fire, resist aqua, resist holy, resist unholy, divine protection, mental shield, etc etc etc. At least other classes have countering effects to mages that to me, balances the WM mess. Not to mention being robe wearing squishies.
progamer = boom boom headshot headshot headshot. You can have all those buffs but when you get Toe to toe with lvl 80 STS with Valakas, WM10, Hero status and all the possible buffs, you're gonna get screwed. Especially if you were exping and he gets the jump on you. There's several other nukers with close to same DPS out there. Pretty much any one of them can drop a 9 man exp party.
Then again, I'd be all for changing bows to blunt crit rate and capping mcrit rate at 50% ^^
I don't think it's fair to nerf nukers, who have gotten screwed so many times I'm surprised they aren't on maternity leave yet, just because a super end game StS owned what was likely a PVE party.
in other hand main skill archers have to kill any nuker 1 vs 1 is stun.
Why the heck would they want to stun a nuker when they crit for 3-4k almost every time (I mean in 1 on 1, i.e. without dances or cat buffs). A nuker hits back for 1-1.5k and gets 2-shotted in any case. Good game.
Whatever OP need to get a grip. Same post every month from some butthurt person. Get over it. Nukers have to deal with archers critting on them for 5 to 8k why the hell cant we crit like that too? Cant take the pvp damage then you shouldnt play a pvp game :)
.. 1-2 shotting isn't PVP, whoever thinks that is a ****. Yes, that' means half the people in this thread. Shame on yourself!
<whine whine> why can't nukers do what archers do.. nananana whiine whiine.. morons. nananana buff resists nanananaaa use a shiieeelldd naaaanaaaaaa whiiine.. whatever. 2 sec PVP isn't fun. End.
Rumor has it that WM augment is nerfed in CT1, no confirmation of that yet from what I've seen on forums at least.
There are so many things that needs to be fixed in this game, whining about just one thing will imbalance another. The whole shebang needs to be redesigned.
Whatever OP need to get a grip. Same post every month from some butthurt person. Get over it. Nukers have to deal with archers critting on them for 5 to 8k why the hell cant we crit like that too? Cant take the pvp damage then you shouldnt play a pvp game
so basically you are balanced because a class can beat you?
There are so many things that needs to be fixed in this game, whining about just one thing will imbalance another. The whole shebang needs to be redesigned.
That's right! Until elpies can wipe out a fully buffed lvl 80 party, this game is completely *****red. Nerf everything. :P
I love dd's criticizing each other. When I played a healer, everyone could 1 shot me, and noone lived long enough to get healed. You should all be nerfed so healers have something to do in PvP.
You should all be nerfed so healers have something to do in PvP.
Now THAT is something I can agree with :)
And it is true - the game needs a complete redesign, but that of course will not happen. As soon as one unbalanced class gets "fixed" (=nerfed), of course another class becomes the new one to reroll to. So what we would need is to rebalance every class at the same time - boost some, nerf others - so that in the end everything is balanced. But it seems the devs cannot handle fixing more than one thing at a time.
You and your friend, are full of crap. If a single mage takes out a 9 man party, then that party was either afk, inthe process of being registered as disconnected by the client, 40 levels lower than the mage, or mentally incapable of understanding they need to hold down control to force attack a player character.
Yes you can get 100% magic crit rate, but you can also reduce magic damage by more than 50% using just elemental resistance buffs and not even considering magic barrier and song of warding (you can get at least 110% elemental defense in C7 which is just around the corner <(o.O)> magic damage is going to start healing you?) yet there are no buffs you can get to so greatly reduce physical damage.
Equipment, and specifically boss jewelery, is already starting to have elemental resistances (dark resistance and I believe fire resistance because NC hates sorcerors). You can safely bet that there will be more boss jewels added with additional types of elemental resistances (specifically water resistance when they add the water dragon Fafurion because NC also hates elves). S grade armor is going to have the ability to carry elemental resistance in a move which directly and negatively effects spellsingers, spellhowlers and necromancers (what kind of schmuch is going to get fire resistance over water, earth over wind and holy over unholy?). Where is the ability to add arrow resistance to robes?
What about overenchanting. Since m attack is square rooted, a mage gets about 50% less of a damage increase from overenchanting their weapons compared to every other class. That right there is more than enough to compensate.
Yes mages can reach achieve magic crit rates above 50%, however this requires a level 77+ eva's saint, valakas necklace, and a wm 10 augment; all of which are exceedingly rare, especially a wild magic augment. Out of many mid grade or higher stones I have never gotten a single wild magic augment of any level.
All in all, it's perfectly fine that mages can get such a high crit rate, seeing as they are the most squishy and easily killable class, and are supposed to be the top damage dealers (though they aren't as this spot has been firmly taken by archers who do more damage on a crit in buffed pvp and have a much higher survivability everywhere when buffed, and used to be taken by orchers with bow crits exceeding 10,000 damage).
Ellisande, u never saw mage with wn10+valakas in action, did u?
Well, not 1x9, mage still need SD + ES. But still, if 9ppl party didnt see mage coming, they will be forsed BSOE, or die. Even with Sws.
Augumentation is not about luck. Its about amoun of adena u can spend. Sad true, u can get unlimited adena from black market...
The only hard thing is Valakas necklace, its hard to get it even in black market.
Well, Ellisande seems to be under the assumption that you can only get a WM augment from mid or higher stones (thus the "Out of many mid grade or higher stones I have never gotten a single wild magic augment of any level.")
Which could be why perhaps hasnt gotten it. Its not exactly "hard" par say to get, it just requires 200-400 million sunk into it for regular 76 LS's depending upon server price of said LS.
Not to get into the whole argument :P Eventually you might need to nerf it, but right now Siren+Valkas+WM10 is so rare that its not a huge issue.
I seen a level 78 Sps (forget what they are called) with a level 78 EE and level 78 BD take a full archer party.
The only hope u have against a nuker is they run out of mana or you get a lucky stun in, if not your dead.
Ganking mages are more successful then archers because they dont miss and by the time you realize u are being attacked you are dead. Party vs Party all it takes is a mixed nuker party and your royally screwed because your resistances are not for all nukers they are based on which elementals you have protected against and then you want to go with full defensive buffs or full offensive buffs.
People only get 24 most only have 22. So that limits how many resistances you can actually have, I have never seen a nuker complain they are underpowered, why you think that is?
Archer Damage is too much.
Mage Damage is too much.
Duelist Damage is too much.
Tyrant Damage is too much.
Dagger Damage is too much.
and on, and on and on ....
If its not someone [censored] about one class, its someone [censored] about another. Welcome to LineageII, the one thing people keep ruling out of all these equations is that the majority of these complaints come via the opposite end of some assortment of boss jewels.
People complain about WM Augments.... yet I have seen about 100x more Dual Critical augments, than WM Augments.
Also, I can't comprehend why people cry about the Valakas necklace. The thing is so **** rare to begin with that its stupid people even attempt to use it as a legitimate source of concern as being a problem in PvP, and it amuses me that they are like "OMGZ, with like the Powz and the Hero, and the WM Augment and like the Valakas Necklace, its Soooooooooooooooooo Unfair..." First off, how many people even have that set-up on your server, let alone NA combined? Hell, How many Valakas Necklaces are there even in NA? - Exactly. The day I see them as readily available as I see Ant Queen, and Baium Rings is the day I will start to give some credit to that noise.
Also, the fact that in CT1 you can get elemental resists even beyond buffs, its annoying that people keep coming back to this age old problem still.
There are far more archers running around with Baium/Ant Queen set ups that there will EVER be mages with Valakas Necklaces, so people need to give up on even remotely attempting to use that as a legitimate argument.
I seen a level 78 Sps (forget what they are called) with a level 78 EE and level 78 BD take a full archer party.
The only hope u have against a nuker is they run out of mana or you get a lucky stun in, if not your dead.
Ganking mages are more successful then archers because they dont miss and by the time you realize u are being attacked you are dead. Party vs Party all it takes is a mixed nuker party and your royally screwed because your resistances are not for all nukers they are based on which elementals you have protected against and then you want to go with full defensive buffs or full offensive buffs.
People only get 24 most only have 22. So that limits how many resistances you can actually have, I have never seen a nuker complain they are underpowered, why you think that is?
That must have been one hell of a pathetic archer party then, and why in God's name would you even use stun? Archers are very simple, Point and Shoot - With 3-4 Archers, your bound to get at least 1 crit per firing round, and there is no class that can keep someone alive against that kind of DPS. So your either Lying, Embellishing or Leaving out a lot of Facts.
I seen a level 78 Sps (forget what they are called) with a level 78 EE and level 78 BD take a full archer party.
The only hope u have against a nuker is they run out of mana or you get a lucky stun in, if not your dead.
Ganking mages are more successful then archers because they dont miss and by the time you realize u are being attacked you are dead. Party vs Party all it takes is a mixed nuker party and your royally screwed because your resistances are not for all nukers they are based on which elementals you have protected against and then you want to go with full defensive buffs or full offensive buffs.
People only get 24 most only have 22. So that limits how many resistances you can actually have, I have never seen a nuker complain they are underpowered, why you think that is?
even 50% magic crit rate is completely overpowered.
Indeed.. 20% is more like it.
Wm augment is way too easy to get considering how overpowered it is.. You'll notice Valakas necklace is a real issue when 3 mages in one clan has one.. like on Lionna.. gg
ok first of all - this isnt l2blah so stop flaming we are trying to have a good discussion in here.
The only point about that magic crit problem is competition ... wouldnt u all agree that a robe wearing mage, should be dead when forced into melee fight with letz say a blade stirring tyrant ?
ok im a blade stirring tyrant whos pvp looks like that - buff buff buff -> >900 mdef (tat +3) resist 110xx hp
-> find nuker -> wolf aura -> run -> vortex no resistance anymore no run speed nothing -> W00t ill get him 9k hp left -> magic crit -> 3k HP left jeah jeah -> hit him with hurricane assault 3XXX dmg -> the nuker easily pots the dmg with cp pots while im still w8ing for reuse timer of any of my skills and just kills me ... the end
this is NOT a very lucky nuker, not even a skilled nuker ... but playing a tyrant or a gladiator against - nuker, archer is completly whack - better bsoe, so why are we pvp melees so underpowered against the other classes espicially first targets like robies ?
no one know the answer... ill not stop arguing until u show me a party which is competitive to a nuker party.
The only point about that magic crit problem is competition ... wouldnt u all agree that a robe wearing mage, should be dead when forced into melee fight with letz say a blade stirring tyrant ?
True, when a melee reaches a robe user, the robe user should be at a heavy disadvantage or, as you put it "should be dead".
But when I read your post, it seems to me that not only do you want the robe wearing mage to be dead when the melee reaches him, you also want the melee to not die while trying to reach the mage.
Or, in other words, you want the melee to win, 100%, all the time (since the nuker should not be able to kill the melee while the melee tries to get close).
IMO, when the fight starts at range, the nuker should have a heavy advantage. When the melee gets close, the melee should have a heavy advantage. So in a normal pvp which starts at range, you need HELP as a melee to survive and get close, since you are at a disadvantage, as it should be. You either need other ranged attackers on your side which the nuker has to deal with first, or buffs/heals which allow you to survive long enough to get close. Those are available, even against nukers which crit a lot (a cardinal SHOULD be able to outheal nuker damage when buffs/dances/songs reduce normal nukes to around 500-600 damage). Yes, a normal player will not win against a nuker with 100% crit rate and all the buffs in the world, but that's an extreme situation (just like a normal nuker who doesn't crit all the time won't win against a fully buffed and boss-jewelled dagger),
Haven't you heard, one archer can take out a fully stacked augmented mage party :'(
So nukers aren't overpowered at all!! buahahahhaha.. wait.. I must be kidding now.
Could write along list of nerfs and boosts that's neededm but it won't help here.
Just bring it back to C1 standards lol
Boss jewels, max +4-10% to any stat.
Lower nuker cast speed, critical damage (2x, you get some sort of thing that increase magic crit damage in ct1) and cap/redesign stacking of critical rate.
Lower stacking of physical crits.
Glads and Tyrants needs the nerf stick too lol
Daggers needs it too, hard as hell.
Remove instant pots, or make them HoT instead.
Anything that does instant kills or close to it should be nerfed hard IMO. Fun fights doesn't last 3 sec, they last for minutes. Then again, a 1v1 shouldn't last much longer than a normally equipped person with PP buffs either.
The past weekend a SS with cyclone killed about 40 enemies with ONE nuke. Of course it were all magic crits. Everbody got hit for 30k dmg in average. Nobody made it out of cyclone.
Please tell me again magic crits are not overpowered. Thx.
The past weekend a SS with cyclone killed about 40 enemies with ONE nuke.
Correction: he killed about 40 idiots that rushed up to him and got within range and let him cast the nuke instead of just 2-shotting him first, from a good distance. Oh well maybe they should have a whole archer party to target him first and assist, in case they were not sure each of them could 2-shot the mage.
And in general, you sound like every server is fully packed with lvl 80 nukers that have both Valakas necklace and WM10 augment.
For example, on Gustin there is exactly one active lvl 80 nuker, and one nuker with Valakas+WM10. They two are surely making a huge impact compared to countless HORDES of archers with Drac bows and rings of Baium/AntQueen.
Even if there's more than one lvl 80+ nuker with 100% magic crit rate on your server, I seriously doubt they can outnumber and outgun your average archer zergs.
Once again: no matter how powerful a mage's nukes are, he can't do much against archer crits. A dead mage has a 0% magic crit rate, plain and simple. :p
The past weekend a SS with cyclone killed about 40 enemies with ONE nuke. Of course it were all magic crits. Everbody got hit for 30k dmg in average. Nobody made it out of cyclone.
Please tell me again magic crits are not overpowered. Thx.
This is Simple. Whats the Range on Cyclone? Whats the range on a Level 78+ Archer?... I'm sure the rest can be figured out.
Aconyte is right, 40 idiots died cause either A) Wonderful Siege planning, and targeting that this guy was still standing to even do it B) They let themselves even get within that range (Real Smart) C) Your servers archers Fail.
Its amazing how 40 people died to a skill that requires getting charged, and being immobile to even use.
Nukers are just fine compared to other classes. Fully buffed a necro hit me for around 250 dmg and other nukers would hit me for 350.. So ~1400 dmg crits at most on my Eva's Saint.
While archers do 1500 dmg on shield block crits and ~2k without. And I have seen hero daggers and destroyers take out full partys by themself (pve'ing ofc but still).
You guys compare end game nukers (billions in gear) to some half ***** dorf with no decent buffs..
Have to agree with Nanashi here. Last time I checked there were more then only archer/nuker classes in game. And I could name a few situations where Cyclones would wreck havoc TBH and be a game ender cause by 1 (3 if you count the whole fusion group).
although I don't really care about Mcrits tho, archer crits are something different.
even 50% magic crit rate is completely overpowered.
and for those of you saying healers have nothing to do in pvp you obviously don't pvp.
Not at sieges. 4 archers with warlock, sws, bd, wc, and drac bows with focus will kill anything in 1 volley. 4 mages can do the same really. Where's the place for a healer there?
It doesn't matter how low the chances are to wm augment.
It doesn't matter how few nukers are lv80 with this stuff.
What matters is only one thing:
Take a lv80 Duelist with +20 wep, +20 armor, +20 boss jewels, +30 power on all dmg skills, perfect buffs, augments of your choice.
Will he be able doing 10% that dmg? - No !
Also there is no HE out there doing 30k dmg crits on half an attacking ally.
LOL, are you serious? Make it easy on yourself, Re-Roll a mage since you think they're Godly. You clearly don't understand the game mechanics, or even how PvP functions in this game if you’re making posts like this.
You need to look at the game as a whole, or pretty much The Big Picture. Every class has a purpose/role in that big picture. Essentially for every scenario/attack/situation, there is a counter scenario/attack/situation. This is the huge fork in the huge fork in the road that determines the success in this game. People either understand the above lying concept and work it, or they just don't and sit there all upset, and make endless posts and threads that are pretty pointless cause they failed to understand the game mechanics.
Not trying to flame you, but from the sounds of it your one of those people who feels that every class should have the same abilities. That's what makes this game great because you need to find the right mix, and work it. Classes rely on other classes for ultimate success.
It doesn't matter how low the chances are to wm augment.
It doesn't matter how few nukers are lv80 with this stuff.
What matters is only one thing:
Take a lv80 Duelist with +20 wep, +20 armor, +20 boss jewels, +30 power on all dmg skills, perfect buffs, augments of your choice.
Will he be able doing 10% that dmg? - No !
Also there is no HE out there doing 30k dmg crits on half an attacking ally.
LOL, are you serious? Make it easy on yourself, Re-Roll a mage since you think they're Godly. You clearly don't understand the game mechanics, or even how PvP functions in this game if your making posts like this.
I don't see any argument in this post proving me wrong.
but nvm - hes right - Jyrki look at ur own signature ... what do i see ?
melees are strong underpowered in pvp against archers and nukers ... just look at the lvl 78 masteries its the ridiculous sign of it : Archers get ? 300 range !!!
Nukers get ? 30% more MATK !!!
we get ? 100patk and 100 cp <- LOL
but nvm - hes right - Jyrki look at ur own signature ... what do i see ?
melees are strong underpowered in pvp against archers and nukers ... just look at the lvl 78 masteries its the ridiculous sign of it : Archers get ? 300 range !!!
Nukers get ? 30% more MATK !!!
we get ? 100patk and 100 cp <- LOL
What does my Sig prove? If you have been reading my posts throughout, me being the classes I have don't quite match up to what I'm posting.
Awesome! I'm a Sagi and a STS... yet I don't play either. What you don't know is I also have been a 7x DA, I was a Glady LOOOOONG before they were great... So if your point is to try to debunk what I'm saying simply because of what's in my sig that pretty silly. :P
nah, i dont debunk what u r saying - it just proves that some classes have a big advantage over nearly ALL other classes i didnt meant to attack u directly - it just has a cause there are quadriliards HE's and and another trialliards nukers on the servers
nah, i dont debunk what u r saying - it just proves that some classes have a big advantage over nearly ALL other classes i didnt meant to attack u directly - it just has a cause there are quadriliards HE's and and another trialliards nukers on the servers
Yep - I Agree, and for various reasons.
Although, I created this archer far before all the hype, it was actually the second Hawkeye I had. The SH was created after I deleted my first subclass (70 DA) because a friend and I decided we we're going to go for Noble asap, so she rerolled into a SE (from an SR) and I did the SH from the DA.
Reason most people pick these classes - They involve little to no skill, and can kill. Archer being the easiest, I mean .. LOL POINT - CLICK - SHOOT - DEAD!!! YAAAAAAY..... Trust me, Aldemir can prob. understand me here, watching a bunch of people reroll into your class because it has become Super-Strong, yet they make your class look terrible. Not to mention HE's get boosted Carry weight, CP pots spammable, they allow the use of G15/Nostromo and HE's have a stupid amount of HP/CP!... so yea, trust me I know LOL.
but nvm - hes right - Jyrki look at ur own signature ... what do i see ?
melees are strong underpowered in pvp against archers and nukers ... just look at the lvl 78 masteries its the ridiculous sign of it : Archers get ? 300 range !!!
Nukers get ? 30% more MATK !!!
we get ? 100patk and 100 cp <- LOL
lol yeah good point
BTW the pattack increase isn't a fixed amount but the cp is
anyway once again i will sum up this thread to save ppl the time of reading it for the millionth time
gimp melee: OMG nukers are overpowered
mage: R not. dem archers be kill'n us most of the time
archer:yeah but it's all good yo cos L2 is about balance and you need da right partiez to be taking out da right classez and everybody gots a place in PVP hommies
every1 needs to stop crying... ncsoft isnt gonna do anything just cuz u guys r crying.
Yup. They have never done anything to reduce ridiculous archer damage, so why should they reduce (less) ridiculous nuker damage. Against a properly buffed opponent, a magic crit should not be more than 3-4k damage. That's about the same as a fully buffed archer crit on a robe user with proper (non-hero) buffs. And it's way harder to get a high magic crit rate, since lots of luck is involved in getting the augmentation, while you can just go to Giran and buy your drac/focus.
I'm not saying it's good that you can get a magic crit rate that high. But I do not think it is in any way worse than archer crits. Both need to go.
They have never done anything to nerf archer damage? Are you joking me? Please double check the updates for Interlude, before posting anything like that. Archers have been nerfed enough.
By the way I think WM augment is extremely easy to get (if you have luck :) ) , third augment I made on my weapon gave me WM lvl 10 passive.
I agree with everyone who says 1 - 2 shots PvP is not fun. Archers do not 1-2 shot anymore (especially when nuker target has shield + bless the shield & advanced block). Oh and by the way spellsingers in full buff will crit almost all the time, this is not fun, really ...
I've experienced the level 80 nuker skill up close many times, both in sieges and normal PVP/Gank/Raid-gank etc. Doesn't matter if you're a n00b or what:
Nuker gets those charges, yay ready to cause havoc!
Nuker gets invincibility or Hero UD and runs into mass of people!
Nuker collects 30+ kills..
Absolutely nothing you can do to get away but run and hope he misses a crit on you, that's 3-5K instead of 15-20k damage lol It's 900 range AoE, plenty enough range to stop anyone from entering a choke point. Either way he'll get most of the people he aimed for, only takes 1 hit, or 2 if you're lucky lol
Also very fun to see a 80 nuker port into 2-4 groups and just use AoE and Mcrit them all to death..
An archer doesn't even get CLOSE to that kind of carnage.
/envy!
Disclaimer: It's not easy to get the setup that's needed, but any top PVP clan will have it. If your clan doesn't, you're not on the top.
Reason most people pick these classes - They involve little to no skill, and can kill. Archer being the easiest, I mean .. LOL POINT - CLICK - SHOOT - DEAD!!! YAAAAAAY..... Trust me, Aldemir can prob. understand me here, watching a bunch of people reroll into your class because it has become Super-Strong, yet they make your class look terrible. Not to mention HE's get boosted Carry weight, CP pots spammable, they allow the use of G15/Nostromo and HE's have a stupid amount of HP/CP!... so yea, trust me I know LOL.
I've experienced the level 80 nuker skill up close many times, both in sieges and normal PVP/Gank/Raid-gank etc. Doesn't matter if you're a n00b or what:
Nuker gets those charges, yay ready to cause havoc!
Nuker gets invincibility or Hero UD and runs into mass of people!
Nuker collects 30+ kills..
Absolutely nothing you can do to get away but run and hope he misses a crit on you, that's 3-5K instead of 15-20k damage lol It's 900 range AoE, plenty enough range to stop anyone from entering a choke point. Either way he'll get most of the people he aimed for, only takes 1 hit, or 2 if you're lucky lol
Also very fun to see a 80 nuker port into 2-4 groups and just use AoE and Mcrit them all to death..
An archer doesn't even get CLOSE to that kind of carnage.
/envy!
Disclaimer: It's not easy to get the setup that's needed, but any top PVP clan will have it. If your clan doesn't, you're not on the top.
As far as I'm aware, you can't move using the 80 AoE Nuke? Is it that hard to kill a Mage? An archer of equal level out-Ranges, and Out-Damages... Only way skills like that work in mass PvP is people not knowing how to PvP in the first place.
Not at sieges. 4 archers with warlock, sws, bd, wc, and drac bows with focus will kill anything in 1 volley. 4 mages can do the same really. Where's the place for a healer there?
Wrong. Get a Destroyer in +++HP build with shield and all defensive buffs. Thats around 30k HP+CP to go thru in that one volley. So, they'd need to do around 7,5k crits each.
Not at sieges. 4 archers with warlock, sws, bd, wc, and drac bows with focus will kill anything in 1 volley. 4 mages can do the same really. Where's the place for a healer there?
Wrong. Get a Destroyer in +++HP build with shield and all defensive buffs. Thats around 30k HP+CP to go thru in that one volley. So, they'd need to do around 7,5k crits each.
Ok, I'll fix it. Anyone worth killing will go down in 1 volley. A destroyer built like that isn't worth killing anyway. They'll never do more damage with a ++HP setup than you can overcome with cp pots. So, again....no use for healers.
++HP Build in Frenzy still has 7k pattk, come again, thanks ^^
Now if he could only catch up with archers with all that run speed. Oops. Face it, you're one build isn't going to make up for the overwhelming uselessness of healers, especially after CT 1 when frenzy goes away after you're healed.
After healed over 30% it turns into 50% pattk buff instead of the 300% it is now for 2handers. It does not go away. And the runspeed is just fine, same as it would be for a STR build actually.
- Nukers dont miss nukes, archer do miss lots of shots.
- Nukers have Acumen3, +15% cast speed robe bonus, Acumen SA(+15% cast speed), Blessed SpiritShot that doubles power and cast speed. Archers have Haste2 and zerk.
- A normal nuke from a unbuffed nuker is like a critical from a unbuffed archer, - the misses, - the chace to get the critical.
- Nukes have Anti Magic passive (+m.def) and robe mastery(+p.def). Archers does not have Anti Magic. The only thing that protect them against nukes are the jews.
- Nukers got all kinds of debuff skills. Archers have what? The neverlanding StunShot?
tbh anyone who thinks archers arent overpowered is pretty outta the loop, boss jewels take it a bit too far (understatement) this is a diff subject though
while yes you can argue that theres a billion buffs to resist nukers, no archer takes all of them over those nifty lil offensive buffs (i understand the point you try to make just if you took all the resist you wouldnt do massive amounts of damage anymore......... youd only do alot >< )
i am gonna have to say though, simply put a cap on magic crits, nothing more.
- Nukers dont miss nukes, archer do miss lots of shots.
- Nukers have Acumen3, +15% cast speed robe bonus, Acumen SA(+15% cast speed), Blessed SpiritShot that doubles power and cast speed. Archers have Haste2 and zerk.
- A normal nuke from a unbuffed nuker is like a critical from a unbuffed archer, - the misses, - the chace to get the critical.
- Nukes have Anti Magic passive (+m.def) and robe mastery(+p.def). Archers does not have Anti Magic. The only thing that protect them against nukes are the jews.
- Nukers got all kinds of debuff skills. Archers have what? The neverlanding StunShot?
2nd
nerf the nukers
3rd
screw HarryPotter fans
People who try to draw comparisons between Archers and Numkers, and make Nukers sound like the Overpowered ones makes laugh. I'm sorry.
simply put, if your getting 1 shotted by a mage crit, then quit the game.
my 78 hawkeye at sieges has 3.5k cp and 11k hp, always holding elemental, max ill get nuked for is 10k thanks
oh and yea if they have enough buffs to get their crit rate, then obviously u will have resiist buffs
True,
I don't think I have ever managed to be one shot mage crit on my archer, vortexes included. Although I have never been hit with an 80 nuke, but they're so rare and avoidable that its stupid to even use them in any form of an argument as to mages being overpowered, and normally I run around with 74 Prophet buffs, and a LvL 3 resist of a particular element. So yea...
Its pretty simple, Resistance + Elemental Protection + Warding is what... 60%+ resistance? I don't know about you, but aside from a UD, or Guts... Do you see any skills out there that cut P.Attack by so much?
As far as I'm aware, you can't move using the 80 AoE Nuke? Is it that hard to kill a Mage? An archer of equal level out-Ranges, and Out-Damages... Only way skills like that work in mass PvP is people not knowing how to PvP in the first place.
Read what I wrote again please. The nuker runs into or ports into a bunch of people, often with invincibility. In that chaos you won't have a chance to run away. Doesn't matter if you have all the resists in the world, you're gonna die unless you're outta there within 2 sec.
Yes, a party of 78 archers can probably kill the nuker if he doesn't have invinciblity or UD.. or 2K pdef with a Bishop on his [censored]. Either way a lot of people are going to die.. so he dies and he gets instantly rezzed and starts spamming AoE's.. Seen it happen a dozen times.
Obviously you've never met a Sorc or an SPS that goes ballistic with AoE's with 100% crit rate.
And to the MORONS that can't read, nobody is saying archers AREN'T overpowered, just that nukers are as well. Jeez..
the problems with Nukers and Archers are the skills. Damage Dealers should deal damage, but not with simply hitting but with using their skills to deal that damage (for Nukers, for example some combo nukes that do the damage).
And imho, the whole boss jewelry is a huge crap and should be altered, too much botters farming that stuff.
Take a lv80 Duelist with +20 wep, +20 armor, +20 boss jewels, +30 power on all dmg skills, perfect buffs, augments of your choice.
So?
That duelist will be able to 1-shot any mage with his skills.
At the same time, a lv80 DWARF with +20 wep, +20 armor, +20 boss jewels, +30 power on all dmg skills, perfect buffs, augments of your choice, won't be able to outdamage the aforementioned duelist.
Therefore, duelists should be nerfed to a dwarf's level.
Quod erat demonstrandum.
Duelist can 1 shot you if he is in melee range. There is a difference between 1 shotting people at 900 or greater range and at point blanc.
While dwarfs and Duelist are in the same warrior category they were designed with a differences. Where a dwarfs abilities are at economics (whether they shine in economics is some other discussion) and duelist is in raw damage. Comparing those two with damage its stupid.
"Take a lv80 Duelist with +20 wep, +20 armor, +20 boss jewels, +30 power on all dmg skills, perfect buffs, augments of your choice."
Such a duelist will NOT one shot a nuker buffed for siege. (greater shield, CoV, Song of Earth, Song of Vitality, Valor)
Nor will he One Shot 40 people with help of a Symbol of Engery.
"Take a lv80 Duelist with +20 wep, +20 armor, +20 boss jewels, +30 power on all dmg skills, perfect buffs, augments of your choice."
Such a duelist will NOT one shot a nuker buffed for siege. (greater shield, CoV, Song of Earth, Song of Vitality, Valor)
Nor will he One Shot 40 people with help of a Symbol of Engery.
But he will get every hero there is for his alliance if he puts the time into it. And thats worth alot more ..
Everyone complains about dmg from nukers/archers. But ncsoft nerfs prophets/ses. Way to go.
I think Lyrene established long ago that you simply [censored] too much, and prob. have no clue how to properly play a prophet since you seemingly complain so much about them.
Everyone complains about dmg from nukers/archers. But ncsoft nerfs prophets/ses. Way to go.
I think Lyrene established long ago that you simply [censored] too much, and prob. have no clue how to properly play a prophet since you seemingly complain so much about them.
Wrong. Nya is probably the best prophet I've ever partied with. Knows quite well how to play her class.
You do play too much tho.. :P Level 80, 100%, and +9 all skills.
Jyrki/Kaysoni
yea, prophet has some pvp skills bww against runners or to run away, bs, burn, erase, root, MI...but you missunderstood my post...majority of ppl are complaining about archer/nuker dmg...and ncsoft doesnt nerf those or boost defensive capatabilities, but they nerf manaburn, erase...and elemprot song makes prophets even less useful in pvp group
and no, BS/BWW dont own ppl, but bww is nice against runners or when I am with melee dds
blockshield = -shield-10%, if you get oneshot w/ blockshield...you will not bwe able to outpot the dmg without BS
i know proph is not that bad in pvp, but most pvp groups will take rather cov+bish or another dd or ee than pp for BS/BWW
but again, tahts not what was my post about, it was about ncsoft nerfing what doesnt reall yneed nerf (se/pp) and not nerfing what needs it (nuker/archer dmg)
Native armor resistances are only for those with knight heavy armor masteries (not sure if you mean this one). Anti Crit damage buff comes at 79 but so does the debuff daggers get that increase crit damage by 30%.
But again, why are we comparing archers with mages and vice versa. Its like the whole ballance of this game is on the fine line of Archers vs Mages...
blockshield = -shield-10%, if you get oneshot w/ blockshield...you will not bwe able to outpot the dmg without BS
Speaking from my experiences with mages. Its a well know fact that mages take zerk were most melee would think twice. Now when you strip their shield buff from them and additionally lower their pdef + plus the fact they have zerk equals a very very low pdef to absorb your damage. High patk + high power skill vs a very low pdef opponent = effectively oneshotting them the majority of the time.
Native armor resistances are only for those with knight heavy armor masteries (not sure if you mean this one). Anti Crit damage buff comes at 79 but so does the debuff daggers get that increase crit damage by 30%.
..and all rogues' light armor masteries decrease critical chance..
# Critical Damage-decreasing effect has been added to the Light Armor Mastery skill that can be learned by Rogues, Elven Scouts, Assassins, and Orc Monks.
# A Critical Damage-decreasing effect has been added to the Heavy Armor Mastery skill that can be learned by Knights, Elven Knights, Scouts, and Palus Knights.
As you can see only Tyrants get it for the orcs. All other warriors gets nothing.
Just noticed they also mention Scouts among the heavy armor masteries.. must be a typo.
Yeah, we'll have to wait and see. But it's same thing they said during Korean beta, so I guess it's more or less correct. Question is how much does it reduce? I've heard Heavy armor reduce crit dmg by about 30%. Probably along the same lines with light armor reducing crit chance as well.
It's a nice change IMO, the tougher get tougher and the agile get more agile. We'll see how it plays out.
Didn't even read any of the posts apart from first one, why would mage crits need to be nerfed? The only way to get an awesome magic crit rate is valakas, pow, siren, and an active or passive WM augment, and to get all this stuff is extremely hard and for nukers to go for all that effort to get all this stuff, i think they deserve something in return.. they still get one/two shot by archers so whatever
# Critical Damage-decreasing effect has been added to the Light Armor Mastery skill that can be learned by Rogues, Elven Scouts, Assassins, and Orc Monks.
I hope this is only for melee crit. Nothing is more beautiful than turning your enemy extra crispy inside and out with a prominence crit! They should have an animation of someone crumbling into dust for that one.
Didn't even read any of the posts apart from first one, why would mage crits need to be nerfed? The only way to get an awesome magic crit rate is valakas, pow, siren, and an active or passive WM augment, and to get all this stuff is extremely hard and for nukers to go for all that effort to get all this stuff, i think they deserve something in return.. they still get one/two shot by archers so whatever
If you didn't read the whole topic, don't post your message, jonny.