We, dorfs, all know that dorfs aren't the best class in L2.
So, here's the question : What can be done to improve dorfs, BH and/or WS, in PVE and/or in PVP?
it will more easy to have ideas for your own class, but we may try to think for the whole classes (it's easy, there's only 2 :D)
i'll begin :
Dorfs
- PVE / PVP :
- increase damages coz we have a great STR (but not the best)
- create a selfbuff for dorfs. Dorfs is prolly the only race without selfbuffs.
- PVE : create a skill that can be used only if the 2 classes is in a party. This skill could be for the economic side of dorfs.
BH
- PVE :
- due to the economic specificity of dorfs, it will great if a part of spoil can be only for BH, even if the party is in "by turn including spoil".
- do RB spoilable, coz BH are really useless at RB
- PVP :
- create a range skill. it's lame to have to run after ppl without doing anything. Of course we can use bow but with our *caugh* great accuracy *caugh*, it's laughtable.
- spoil could be used in pvp to unequipe an armor piece. this piece could be moved into the target's inventory. Same for spoil festival.
WS
- PVE :
- i really dunno what WS could have, but it's sure they have nothing. Maybe a skill that could decrease the Pdef of the target coz of knowledge of armors.
- create a skill that allow WS the repare their golem (mechanic one and siege one)
- give a skill to the mechanic golem that regen MP to the WS.
- PVP :
- there could a possibilty that the mechanic golem exploses after been killed. i dunno if it's balanced, but why not.
- theirs damages could be higher coz of their knowledge about armors' weakness.
All those ideas are just what they are : ideas.
You can comment and give your ideas.
/discuss
We, Dwarfs, all know that Dwarfs aren't the best class in L2.
So, here's the question : What can be done to improve Dwarfs, BH and/or WS, in PVE and/or in PVP?
it will more easy to have ideas for your own class, but we may try to think for the whole classes (it's easy, there's only 2 )
I'll begin :
Dwarfs
- PVE / PVP :
- increase damages coz we have a great STR (but not the best)
- create a self buff for Dwarfs. Dwarfs is prolly the only race without self buffs.
- PVE : create a skill that can be used only if the 2 classes is in a party. This skill could be for the economic side of Dwarfs.
Dwarfs are made to make money better then any class they are just not meant to be PVP Champs you want more STR get a tattoo you have a ton CON make use of it
BH
- PVE :
- due to the economic specificity of Dwarfs, it will great if a part of spoil can be only for BH, even if the party is in "by turn including spoil".
- do RB spoilable, coz BH are really useless at RB
Nice Idea but do like me be the party Leader and Set party to Turn only ;)
- PVP :
- create a range skill. it's lame to have to run after ppl without doing anything. Of course we can use bow but with our *cough* great accuracy *cough*, it's laughable.
- spoil could be used in pvp to unequipped an armor piece. this piece could be moved into the target's inventory. Same for spoil festival.
Lot of classes don't have a Range Skill get a bow and +4 or 5 Dex or deal with the fact you don't have Range skills
WS
- PVE :
- I really dunno what WS could have, but it's sure they have nothing. Maybe a skill that could decrease the Pdef of the target coz of knowledge of armors.
- create a skill that allow WS the repair their golem (mechanic one and siege one)
- give a skill to the mechanic golem that regen MP to the WS.
Dwarfs have no magic skills they are meant to be that way no point in changing it now a
- PVP :
- there could a possibility that the mechanic golem exploses after been killed. I dunno if it's balanced, but why not.
- theirs damages could be higher coz of their knowledge about armors' weakness.
Have you seen a WS in the OLY........I have this one WS name Sunshine dam near own every class and because of her money making (best thing Dwarfs do) She had a Weapon and Armor for each different class she had a fight with she just change at will and with a Dwarf Weight limit she had a lot A and S armor and S grade bow right on her + her golem.
All those ideas are just what they are : ideas.
You can comment and give your ideas.
/discuss
The One thing Dwarfs need that stay with what they are is Sweep Festival for BH and a Crystallize Shop for WS (were some one can Crystallize a Certain Grade Item for a Fee
Dwarfs are made to make money better then any class they are just not meant to be PVP Champs you want more STR get a tattoo you have a ton CON make use of it
i have a +4 STR/-4 CON tatoo, i'm 79 with full S gears+3, and believe me, my damages are low.
Nice Idea but do like me be the party Leader and Set party to Turn only ;)
but if spoil isn't share, we won't have paties anymore. it could be nice that spoil stay shared, but more items spoiled for BH.
Lot of classes don't have a Range Skill get a bow and +4 or 5 Dex or deal with the fact you don't have Range skills
when i mean range skill, i mean BH have nothing to hit at range, like golem can do. I tried +DEX tatoo, but even a +4 DEX tatoo give +2 in accuracy... just lol :(
Dwarfs have no magic skills they are meant to be that way no point in changing it now a
you're right for PC, but there are dorf priest in NPC. and in the mechanic game, archers aren't magical character, but they have selfbuffs, isn't it?
Have you seen a WS in the OLY........I have this one WS name Sunshine dam near own every class and because of her money making (best thing Dwarfs do) She had a Weapon and Armor for each different class she had a fight with she just change at will and with a Dwarf Weight limit she had a lot A and S armor and S grade bow right on her + her golem.
i confess i don't really know WS in PVP. it just was an idea. it seems it was a bad idea :)
The One thing Dwarfs need that stay with what they are is Sweep Festival for BH and a Crystallize Shop for WS (were some one can Crystallize a Certain Grade Item for a Fee
Sweep festival is not really usefull and a poor improvment in front of other classes improvment imo. i dunno what Crystallize Shop could change for market. good or wrong thing for WS... i really dunno, but why not. i think a WS could have a better answer than me.
Sweep Festival is not really useful? Your kidding right?
Warsmiths NEED to be able to repair their **** golem. I mean COME ON. Yer telling me they can build em but not fix em? FFS, make it require a NEW item sold in shops, call it Golem Lube or something. :p
repair is a good idead for WS I give you that but Humans have no self buffs. DA does becasue he studies Dark magic . Dwarfs are just not magic users get a bow with +++ accuracy or get a LS and try get it you have The money as a dwarf to make things work for you. and a Bow works mages have no were near your accuracy yet they felt is was needed nerf on mages with bows.
dorf priest might be a New class they will come out with later but that will be a mage class still not a Fighter class.
Dwarfs are A money making Fighter class they are what you call the Weapon sellers that supply the war but they don't really get involed in the wars.
come on Sweep festival I can't came 1 BH That don't want that skill
Also On the PTS the first week everyone was lvling and getting gear but they were poor you had 20+ in no grade yet they were pvp with that gear. I made a Dwarf by lvl 20 my Scavy was in full D grade weapon armor Jewery an all. I know how play a dwarf to its fullest I play dwarf every time on PTS.
A group out side town was killing anyone leaveing town so people were standing at gate I knew I was in top gear and top jewery and I wanted 2 delvl so I can make a little more money in time for C grade. I run out they all tattack me. mind you they are 20 + but in no grade and some in cheap no grade not even top. and way I use stun and SS and few mins later 5 dead bodies on the ground and I still had cp they were like dam did Dwarfs get buffed up. I said no you guys are just poor and I'm not...care for round 2?
I never got round 2 ;)
of course after the boost and everyone got 100 mill I rerolled a Tryant :D
repair is a good idead for WS I give you that but Humans have no self buffs. DA does becasue he studies Dark magic . Dwarfs are just not magic users get a bow with +++ accuracy or get a LS and try get it you have The money as a dwarf to make things work for you. and a Bow works mages have no were near your accuracy yet they felt is was needed nerf on mages with bows.
dorf priest might be a New class they will come out with later but that will be a mage class still not a Fighter class.
Dwarfs are A money making Fighter class they are what you call the Weapon sellers that supply the war but they don't really get involed in the wars.
come on Sweep festival I can't came 1 BH That don't want that skill
Also On the PTS the first week everyone was lvling and getting gear but they were poor you had 20+ in no grade yet they were pvp with that gear. I made a Dwarf by lvl 20 my Scavy was in full D grade weapon armor Jewery an all. I know how play a dwarf to its fullest I play dwarf every time on PTS.
A group out side town was killing anyone leaveing town so people were standing at gate I knew I was in top gear and top jewery and I wanted 2 delvl so I can make a little more money in time for C grade. I run out they all tattack me. mind you they are 20 + but in no grade and some in cheap no grade not even top. and way I use stun and SS and few mins later 5 dead bodies on the ground and I still had cp they were like dam did Dwarfs get buffed up. I said no you guys are just poor and I'm not...care for round 2?
I never got round 2 ;)
of course after the boost and everyone got 100 mill I rerolled a Tryant :D
Sure I can make billions of adena on the PTS in 1 week, but on the live server the things are very different.
Farmers is gathering all the materials needed to craft stuff and under priced craft shops are taking away the benefits that we have on the PTS (for both BH and WS).
The things I earn more adena from than anything else is playing the marked, but that is a thing that every class can do. I can get more materials from manoring than I can get from my BH...again every class in game can do that.
I don't see how you can compare the PTS with the live servers...
I like all the ideas of the OP although making the golem recharge the WS is a bad idea (no matter how much I wish they already had it) as dwarfs can't do magic.
Allowing the WS to repair the summons is a must and make the summons immune against sleep, bleed, poison, fear and erase as they are machines and not creatures/spirits or what ever.
I would say that battle roar, duelist spirit, a tyrants totems are self buffs and they are non magic since you don't need a spell book for them so why not give some skills like those to the dwarfs to? Are you afraid a dwarfs will come and kill you if they get that?
As it is now a dwarf can't win over the classes they are supposed to be wining over according the the triangle (without using pots).
And how come a dwarf can carry 4 times more than any other race and only be able to hit little harder than a tank? Isn't strength needed to carry stuff (if not then how come I can't carry an elephant with my little finger?)? Doesn't a WS (blacksmith) in real life get strong arms from all the armor and weapon crafting? BH should get good training from all the running around to gather and search for materials.
wow comparing PTS to live GG
mechanic golem is magic, maybe back in C3 you could argue it was a contruct but mysteriously the second NC decided to add erase to the game they changed the description to [paraphrased] "magical creatures - the name for biotechnological items of the magic and titan age, their magic is strong and they sometimes use strong magic like teleportation"
in case your L2 lore isn't up to date i interpret that to mean that golems are summoned from the past. all that however is irrelevant, the change to the description from construct to summon was an excuse for NC to give healers the ability to erase the golem even though in their awesome balance triangle dorfs are meant to beat healers
description of spoil
Imbues a monster with magic that renders it susceptible to the Sweeper skill.
you want to keep arguing that dorfs don't use magic? well i don't care either way, the fact is L2 is a game not some form of science or a study in tolkian lore and does not need to follow any form of logic. if NC decides to add what you would consider a magic skill all they need to do is write its description like this:
magic dorf buff skill - magically buffs the dwarf with the magical ability to do some magic crap (BTW this skill isn't magic it's actually a physical skill because dwarves can't use magic, even though the skill kinda looks like its magic)
in case you still disagree for some ******ed reason then keep in mind how many skills destro have and the fact that none of them are magic
now back to topic
problem with WS is their inability to get parties
problem with BH is their inability to get parties without giving away their only unique skill (spoils)
give BH the ability to keep a portion of their spoils or add a second secret spoil table
give WS a reason to be in party besides "well its the clan WS we better let him leech xp till lvl 70 so we can craft top gear
"
alternatively just ban all the farmers (both BH amd WS) so dorfs can regain their place as a money making class
repair is a good idead for WS I give you that but Humans have no self buffs. DA does becasue he studies Dark magic .
Hello there MR PTS.
Hawkeye: Soul of Sagittarius, Hawk Eye, Blessing of Sagittarius, Spirit of Sagittarius
Gladiator: War Cry, Lionheart, Battle Roar
Warlord: War Cry, Battle Roar, Focus Attack, Thrill Fight, Lionheart
Yeah, you're absolutely right... NO selfbuffs for humans. Thats just a quick list that comes to mind, but ****, they must all be something other than buffs, right?
Then, using Olympiad as an example of how a class is balanced or not... get real will ya? Olympiad is perhaps the most broken part in this game and does not in any way or form show the true balance between classes. And if only WS on your server has multiple armors and weapons in the Oly, then your server is A. Dead. B. Full of incompetent tools fighting in the Oly.
WS gets owned by 90% of classes in olympiad (even with full gear) and as for BH... well they are nothing more than a WS without a golem and 100ish more hp
yes WS owns PTS olympiad when played right but keep in mind everyone is rockin +0 gear with no SAs and 99% of the server is kameal
a point i might add that i find abit ******ed is the fact that even with Blunt weapon masteries we dont get the highest DPS with a blunt, if you just add PP buffs we start haveing higher DPS with a sword then the blunt (this is especially true if you go +str). and when fully buffed we have highest DPS with a focus sword or dagger and the lowest with blunt weapons.
a point i might add that i find abit ******ed is the fact that even with Blunt weapon masteries we dont get the highest DPS with a blunt, if you just add PP buffs we start haveing higher DPS with a sword then the blunt (this is especially true if you go +str). and when fully buffed we have highest DPS with a focus sword or dagger and the lowest with blunt weapons.
This only hold true till A grade when you can aquire an Meteor shower with Focus, but before this this is true yes.
Our raw damage is not really that bad but our problem for DPS, as an warior class we got no skills related to damage at all except one spear attack ( who is pathetic damage but AoE ) and hammer crush who is well a stun with some OK damage ) problem is the rest of the warior classes got way more to add up there damage to this, and also evil self buffs some of the warrior classes gets, well all BUT Dwarfs get them.
My tyrant sub out damaged my main BH at lv 43... My main in Full A grade btw.
Biggest problem I see so far is that somehow there seem to be some unwritten rule that dwarves is not suppose to be PVP class, well the thing is, this is a PVP game, and you won't be able to run away from it, hence you need ot PVP and yes your a PVP class.
It's true that dwarves where ment to offer some of there skills to proffit related things and 'fight' with that in regard problem is that that ain't working either, it would work if there was like dwarf only really expensive gear and stuff like that.
They also promised like 2 years ago now that they will fix the dwarves economy problem, yes even they mentioned it a while ago that there was one, nothing have however ben done since then, and every expansion comes with a passive nerf instead. Like no mats after 60+, Recipes is quest only, key items is raid boss drops ( ad spoil for the mater but since it's easier to acquire by bosses anyway ) So for this regard an BH above lv 60 is 100% pointless. WS have the same problem at lv 70.
In any event, argued and talk so much about this so many times over at this forum and to tired to really continue about it, nothing will ever be done about it anyway. They won't tutch the class as it's been sold off to farmers.
well there is also a problem with how to improve the 2 different classes. BH and WS.
if they give the same stuff to both classes WS will come up ontop in PvP because of their golem, it will most likely be the same in PvE where WS already have a good advantage with their golem.
what comes to my mind would be some sort of selfbuff, atm i think all warrior classes have some sort of self buff, except dwarfs. Something like a crit rate, haste or patk selfbuff. or give an attack skill much like armor crush wich reduces pdef (would make them more wanted in parties too, especially if they could "spam" it)
imo this game have too many shared skills that are exactly the same for all clases that have it. some alterations on skills to balance the different classed up better should be made.
My point in that if you guys whould take the time and read is that before all the bots and ebay and it was more balance but now with all the dam cheating it's unbalance. so Dwarfs edge on everyone was more money but that got killed with all the cheating. the reason I use pts as an example because at the start it was the way the game was ment be no bots no ebay. The boost was like ebay coming in and giving everyone 100 mill and boosting they lvls. From my example you can see at the start the dwarf is has more money then the other classes so they would have the better gear and more money spend on supplies and stuff they also supply the weapons we use and armor.
Dwarfs has the uperhand till the cheating starts then they loose that upper hand
a more powerful toon only needs a fraction of the adena a dwarf does in order to be successful while a dwarf won't leave town with any less than a pole, a blunt and a bow.
archers and nukers only need 1 weapon and they are set. that is the minimum set up for a dwarf BTW, realistically you also want a dagger or sword for more effective soloing (since blunts suck so bad) and multiple sets of armor
you also might want to have a few extra +'es on your gear since if you have equally enchanted gear as your opponent you stand no chance of winning
whether or not an archer or a mage could afford to buy their one weapon while dwarves buy their 4 in an ebayless bot free world we will never know since we don't have access to a world like that
so yeah saying dwarves are balanced because of their economic skills on a bot free server while NC has the banning skills of a 2 year old with a tickle me elmo keyboard is a moot point
AshleyHunter: I agree with that and I know that would be the case in the begining of a cheatless server, but over time those players would catch up with the dwarf in gear and have the upper hand again as they can manor more efficient than what we can to gather alot of adena...maybe the dwarfs would had the edge by being the ones that could afford shots, but then again the other classes have powerful skills to back them up.
I started a dwarf on Franz when it was opened hoping for a new and better start, but withing 1 week the cheaters was already in top c grade equipment while I had barely managed to get to lvl 20 and crafted low d grade armor.
Nanashi_Naomhan: Saying that a dwarf needs multiple weapons and armors in the situation that AshleyHunter described is [censored]. A dwarf would do just fine in 1 kind of armor (depending on the dye setup and weapon choice) and 1 kind of weapon (pole or blunt depending on their play style).
Nanashi_Naomhan: Saying that a dwarf needs multiple weapons and armors in the situation that AshleyHunter described is [censored]. A dwarf would do just fine in 1 kind of armor (depending on the dye setup and weapon choice) and 1 kind of weapon (pole or blunt depending on their play style).
sorry i meant a dorf that does something besides pve :P
and if you are using a blunt before mid 60's you have bigger problems then how gimp dorfs are
the point the game currently is they should delete dorfs and let you pick any fighter class instad as your main
that would proably the easiest way since dorfs are atm very broken since they cant do anything in pve or pvp but there economy advantage is minior at best (and in case of the bh any of your pertymembers has the same economy advantages as you do)
rolling back to somewhere before c4 might also work for dorfs since then they still had somewhat of an use
I ain't gonna reply to everything here but only the second post in the thread.
The moneymaking abilities is shot to hell for a dorf, don't even mention it. Anyone can make the same or more money as a dorf trying to make money the "dorfie exclusive way" (as in craftshops and spoils).
It doesn't matter what toon you have, if its dorf, elf, orc, human, the upcoming kamael or dork elves(sorry i just dont like this race much, lol, bad past experiences and nightmares o.O... :P lol) the only thing that matters in making money in l2 is how you use your brain, lol.
I ain't gonna reply to everything here but only the second post in the thread.
The moneymaking abilities is shot to hell for a dorf, don't even mention it. Anyone can make the same or more money as a dorf trying to make money the "dorfie exclusive way" (as in craftshops and spoils).
It doesn't matter what toon you have, if its dorf, elf, orc, human, the upcoming kamael or dork elves(sorry i just dont like this race much, lol, bad past experiences and nightmares o.O... :P lol) the only thing that matters in making money in l2 is how you use your brain, lol.
you must never made a BH. why you think Farmers use BH. because they flat out make money. the matts you get from the catts alone you make a ton of many. just spoiling animal bones which i get about 1k of animal bones an hour at witches (you get a lot more then just animal bones) you go giran and sell that for 800 to 1k each to shops that's buying you don't even have sit and sell them and that's 800k to 1 mill alone just on the dam animal bones.
You take a dwarf with only a blunt, I'll take a SR. You wont even touch me.
If I remember correctly from the PvP triangle fighters aren't supposed to win over archers.
And I was referring to the case that was described where there was no botting and no ebaying where the dwarfs was the only ones with top equipment. I bet you would had problems beating a dwarf in top b grade when you barely could had gotten even low b grade.
I have done duels against archers (in the open and the arena) and the outcome was: WS 2 - HE 6 (we was both evenly buffed, majestic armor, HE had top a grade bow and WS had top b grade blunt)
So it isn't impossible for me to tuch a SR....I jusdt have to land stun a few times.
I have gone through daggers that didn't land any lethal strikes on me like they where made of paper...yes with a blunt and the daggers was even or higher in lvls than me in top a grade equipment.
Nanashi_Naomhan: Saying that a dwarf needs multiple weapons and armors in the situation that AshleyHunter described is [censored]. A dwarf would do just fine in 1 kind of armor (depending on the dye setup and weapon choice) and 1 kind of weapon (pole or blunt depending on their play style).
sorry i meant a dorf that does something besides pve :P
and if you are using a blunt before mid 60's you have bigger problems then how gimp dorfs are
As I just told Charmille I don't have any problems in PvP against daggers and few archers (if I manage to get close and land stun) when using a blunt.
Why should I as a dwarf carry a bow or sword when I don't even have masteries for that? I want to play the class the way it is designed to be and not force every class in the game to use a bow just because some kids that don't have what it takes to go on a hand to hand fight that requires some skills instead of just pushing one button every now and then.
the point the game currently is they should delete dorfs and let you pick any fighter class instad as your main
that would proably the easiest way since dorfs are atm very broken since they cant do anything in pve or pvp but there economy advantage is minior at best (and in case of the bh any of your pertymembers has the same economy advantages as you do)
rolling back to somewhere before c4 might also work for dorfs since then they still had somewhat of an use
From all the replies here I have come to the conclusionn that they should transform every player on all the servers into HE, SR and PR and delete all the other classes. Only have bows in the game since the bows are the only weapon that works in this game.
Because all other classes are gimp and useless or need a bow to be useful.
Or heck why not give all classes bow masteries...that would make 90% of the PvPers happy.
Back on topic:
Learn how to play your class before writing stupid things about not being able to do anything and please DON'T post unless you have a dwarf as your MAIN because you have no clue what you are talking about.
if you can beat an archer as a dwarf the only logical conclusion is that the archer sucks
an archer doesn't need full boss jewels and maj to resist your stun because if they have the slightest clue how to play you will never get close enough to hit them and your golem should get 1 or 2 hits in before it is dead
the reason farmers make BH is because they own the other 8 toons following them around doing all the damage but not keeping 8/9th of the spoils
the reason smart dwarves don't use a blunt is because the tiny difference between no masteries and blunt masteries does not add up for the fact that blunts have a crap crit rate and in L2 crit rate is all that matters
you can beat daggers who don't know how to play, not all the time mind you because it doesn't take much luck to two hit you but it does happen
if you can beat an archer as a dwarf the only logical conclusion is that the archer sucks
an archer doesn't need full boss jewels and maj to resist your stun because if they have the slightest clue how to play you will never get close enough to hit them and your golem should get 1 or 2 hits in before it is dead
the reason farmers make BH is because they own the other 8 toons following them around doing all the damage but not keeping 8/9th of the spoils
the reason smart dwarves don't use a blunt is because the tiny difference between no masteries and blunt masteries does not add up for the fact that blunts have a crap crit rate and in L2 crit rate is all that matters
you can beat daggers who don't know how to play, not all the time mind you because it doesn't take much luck to two hit you but it does happen
My opinion anyways is that archer and nuker classes are for cowards that don't dare to come close to it's opponent.
Players that need a weapon other than the main weapon for their class should considering rerolling as they clearly are playing the wrong class.
I am still gonna play my dwarf the way it was designed with pole and blunt (specially after hammer crush got boosted in Interlude)
Players that need a weapon other than the main weapon for their class should considering rerolling as they clearly are playing the wrong class.
every class in game except for archer, mages and healers need a second weapon
the difference between those classes and dwarves is blunts are so gimp that almost any other melee weapon will give more DPS
you can spin it however you like that you are playing the way the class was designed but if another weapon gives you faster xp or more PVP points then thats what you should use imo
Players that need a weapon other than the main weapon for their class should considering rerolling as they clearly are playing the wrong class.
every class in game except for archer, mages and healers need a second weapon
the difference between those classes and dwarves is blunts are so gimp that almost any other melee weapon will give more DPS
you can spin it however you like that you are playing the way the class was designed but if another weapon gives you faster xp or more PVP points then thats what you should use imo
Get a blunt with focus and you are doing great DPS...can't wait to get my hands on a Barakiel's axe.
I am supposed to use blunt and if it is so [censored] weak they need to boost them, but wait...no one wants that the dwarfs gets boosted because they are scared they will get their [censored] kicked by them.
If I was gonna use a bow I would had gone for an archer, sword I would had gone for a destroyer, duals I would had gone for a gladiator, pole only I would had gone for a warlord, fist I would had gone for a tyrant, dagger I would had gone for a dagger class.
dwarf has pole skills why would you need be a warlord with a Pole?. And my BH use dules and they work just find I don't like a blunt becasue I tend use stun and that use up my spoil mp so i use dules to keep me from useing stun (I really like to stun) so i just kept the blut you get when you start the game so if I really need stun I can but I don't have 2.
so i guess if your a Dwarf that levels a pet you should go summon class or if you want 2 use a Blunt make a DA. The way you sound the only reason for a dwarf is 2 sit in shop mode drinking Beer.
I ain't gonna reply to everything here but only the second post in the thread.
The moneymaking abilities is shot to hell for a dorf, don't even mention it. Anyone can make the same or more money as a dorf trying to make money the "dorfie exclusive way" (as in craftshops and spoils).
It doesn't matter what toon you have, if its dorf, elf, orc, human, the upcoming kamael or dork elves(sorry i just dont like this race much, lol, bad past experiences and nightmares o.O... :P lol) the only thing that matters in making money in l2 is how you use your brain, lol.
you must never made a BH. why you think Farmers use BH. because they flat out make money. the matts you get from the catts alone you make a ton of many. just spoiling animal bones which i get about 1k of animal bones an hour at witches (you get a lot more then just animal bones) you go giran and sell that for 800 to 1k each to shops that's buying you don't even have sit and sell them and that's 800k to 1 mill alone just on the dam animal bones.
Or as another type of toon (anyone you chose, except maybe a buffer.. unless the buffer/healer-type parties with a DD or do disrupt undead or equivalent and goes against undead mobs) you can go to a manor of your choice in a town of your choice do some research, buy the seeds of choice that you either need for crafts or want to get to sell for profits and viola, even a halfassed nuker that has problems finding and seeding mobs that are suitable to them can make more money a night than a BH that just goes out to spoil.
Dont get me wrong, BH's can do manor too but if they do they're NOT making money the BH way. The BH way of making money is by spoil alone, once you do manor you're on the generic path that anyone else can do.
Manor>spoil if you know what you're doing. So any class can make more money a night than a BH on a spoiltour. BH moneymaking is shot to hell thanks to the manor system.
Now if only manor system wouldn't exist then yeah they would definately have an edge when it comes to sustaining themselves and their economical needs for gears shots and other consumables...
All you need to do is set a clock specifically for the manor system and know the time that you can start turning in seeds, load up the fruits, get ready for what town you wish to sell and just have that one button you need to click in order to have your fruits sold.. and the split second the time slips over that golden line, SELL! you can beat the unmentionable this way. Me and my g/f have done it plenty of times... its a pain in the [censor hole] but its quite doable and not too terribly hard :P
You take a dwarf with only a blunt, I'll take a SR. You wont even touch me.
If I remember correctly from the PvP triangle fighters aren't supposed to win over archers.
Fine fine, you take a blunt, I take a buffer, root you and plink you to death while you stand there helpless.
I have done duels against archers (in the open and the arena) and the outcome was: WS 2 - HE 6 (we was both evenly buffed, majestic armor, HE had top a grade bow and WS had top b grade blunt)
So it isn't impossible for me to tuch a SR....I jusdt have to land stun a few times.
Know the difference between HEs and SRs? Apparently not. You cant land stun on someone who is never even within 500 range of you. SR has the range and the speed to kite you without you ever getting close enough to touch it.
Know the difference between HEs and SRs? Apparently not. You cant land stun on someone who is never even within 500 range of you. SR has the range and the speed to kite you without you ever getting close enough to touch it.
My golem has a nuke.
And I'm pretty sure you'll run out of MP (and most buffs) before I run out of C-crystals to resummon it and GCP pots to heal your damage. :)
In responce to your request for a funny dorf sub - Female I would say Elven Summoner (Big Pony stands next to ikkle girly dorf ftw), male I would say Necromancer (massive summon twice the size of teh dorf who owns him)... :p
I usually take a BH with me when i go big booming, when we time it right he'll mass spoil, and boom will go off killing the mobs. Now, we can get about 4-5 sweepers off, before the mobs disappear. To counter this make the mobs' boddies, once spoiled, not disappear for around 2 minutes, then they wont have to make sweeper festival, as all us dwarves know they won't :)
<blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:<hr />
I have so much more fun in PvP on my dorf than I ever had on my paladin - go dorfs!
On my dwarf ive not fun for pvp.... when people lose too much life, they run .... and humans and elves are run always faster than my dwarf !
btw my question is :
dyes dex+4 con+4 isnt good for attack speed? i saw someone said it put only +2 but, its the same at low lv and hight lv?
actually my dwarf 6x has no tatoo.... and its becoming to be really hard to exp without buffs and just with a gsap ^^.
I am supposed to use blunt and if it is so [censored] weak they need to boost them, but wait...no one wants that the dwarfs gets boosted because they are scared they will get their [censored] kicked by them.
If I was gonna use a bow I would had gone for an archer, sword I would had gone for a destroyer, duals I would had gone for a gladiator, pole only I would had gone for a warlord, fist I would had gone for a tyrant, dagger I would had gone for a dagger class.
while i do agree that a dwarf is suposed to use a dwarf i aslo feel there should be a benefit to use for using it (not just for the skills) i mean as it stand atm we will have the lowest meele DPS (of figther type) in a party with sws, bd and PP or WC buff.
if we look at a dwarf using a blunt his DPS will increase by about 4x endgame buffed while if he had used a sword it would have increased by almost 5x and bow by more then 6x.
all these comparesions were made with no SAs, adding focus would make sword 6.3x and bow 7.4x. and in S grade there is no focus blunt, even using the top A grade focus blunt you just barley make it over the DPS of the S grade blunt (6% increase or about that). and all the weapons i listed started with a lower DPS but as buffs were added ended with a higher DPS then the blunt. most difference on bow, from about 2/3 of the DPS of a blunt to almost 10% higher DPS (no SA).
whats even more depressing imo is that already with just PP or WC buffs a sword gives almost the same DPS as a blunt.
something should be done with our blunt masteries to make them usefull even when fully buffed as it stands atm there is really nothing to gain for using a blunt in party for a dwarf other then to stun.
as for beating archers in the open, i only can say that those archers must have sucked bad. if they knew what they were doing you wouldnt even be close enough to ever hit them, and your golem should be droped rather quick each time it got summoned. olympiad and arena is a different matter since they wont have much space to kite in.
btw all comparisons were made as a 80 maestro with +5str, +4dex -9 con at http://l2calc.l2blah.com
this do ofc make the benefits of buffs greater then if i had compared with a -9str dwarf, but i dont think anyone would go -9str on a dwarf if he wants to be usefull for XP parties.
Heh, was wondering when this thread would resurrect in the dwarf section...
First off, I love my dwarf. Lvl'd a Plainswalker sub to 75 and although fun, just wasn't the same as playing my Maestro. My main has become my favorite class hands down, so I guess I did right when I first chose long ago.
That said, there are HUGE problems with dwarves, I think everyone already knows this though. In the early days dwarves were exactly what they were supposed to be, that is they had the gear advantage over other races/classes simply because they were dwarves. This was always meant to be th e case, but since C3 or maybe even earlier it's no longer working. If our money-making ability no longer allows dwarves to be the only ones able to afford top-end gear (that just sounds silly saying it now) as NC had originally planned, then our 'advantage' over other players is lost.
As far as pve lvl'ing goes though, if you have a polearm and some friends then you've got nothing to complain about. Sure destroyers are faster/better polers, and warlords can lay down stuns, but dwarves also swing poles and connect with the maximum limit of mobs. I know poling is gonna suffer a bit in CT1, but up until now it's been incredibly fast xp and very cost efficient also. If your a blunt/single target only type person who would prefer to solo, then yeah lvl'ing will be slower, but there's not much to be done to counter that.
Now in pvp we most definatly have a disadvantage in 2 areas. I'm not gonna talk about rogues or nukers (who are supposed to beat us) or tank and bards (who we are supposed to beat) because in top end pvp (oly style) we should be right where were supposed to be against them. One problem is against support (buffers and healers) who we're supposed to beat consistantly, although most classes have problems against buffers in current 1v1 pvp so that's not so much dwarves broken as buffers broken. The biggest problem i see is against our equal's...other warrior types. We should have an even chance against other warriors, but against Gladi's, Destro's, and Tyrants I think we fall short more than equals. That's the only problem I really see from NC's 1v1 RPS style 'balance'.
In open field mass pvp, dwarves can be the most fun class ever...if you have a polearm and tight groups of enemies. With small skirmishes most dwarves would switch to a bow...but that's not as much as a dwarf negative either, more of a low dps melee vs ranged. It's not just dwarves using bows here...you'll notice most all melee pull them out. Not saying it's how it should be, just saying it's not a dwarf sucking at pvp thing.
The big issue I see is our 'financial advantage' though. If we have to accept the lesser end of the skill chain because we have a financial advantage...where's our 76+ financial abilities? Spoil and Craft are our supposed money makers, but they top out at lvl 74 and lvl 70 respectively. Why isnt there another lvl of spoil for new upcoming stuff and higher lvl mobs? Why can a lvl70 WS craft S80 gear? This is my biggest issue with dwarves anyhow.
plz...i just came from MOS pole...is way dissapointing
2 maestros with PP 78+ buffs and WC 7x and BD not be able to pull nonstop 2 angelgroups? plzz..i wonder why we discusss about improve dwarfs, our siege golems are nerfed coz overpowered mages,
now they nerf pole....mos was the only place that a dwarf can take a buffer and go make some good xp..but no NCSOFT thinks we dwarfs are overpowered??? no just they dont care..they cared to nerfed some other chars, and that means nerf us as well...what are we talking about improving, each chronicle its more bad....well yeah applause we got some usage in fortress ..but hell no i didnt spent all this time make good gears crafting Top armors/weap and not be able to kill at 3rd class 2 **** group of angels...or Ncsoft wants to have full party to kill 2 **** mobgroups...
want to imrove dwarfs (ws) ...make castle doors unbeatable..so only ws can take them down..MAKE THEM USEFULL... and why the hell....siege golems stops at 68lvl? ROFL.(and make them be IN the golem for more defence protection) ..u forget smth or is a reminder that dont lvl a dwarf more than 70lvl has no usage at all (make only maestro to use fortress that will be a good change)....its pathetic...
sorry for this post...just im sad about this new chronicle
3> my dwarf
well i belive they did the VR nerf on pole to stop solo polers gaining XP faster then anyone else as they now would need a healer aswell.
after all haveing like 20-30 mobs hitting you and still GAIN 1-2k HP each swing isnt really whats suposed to happen i feel. but then i had basicly full buffs from, mostly, boxed chars.
the only reason to carry a blunt for a dwarf would be if he wants to stun in pvp for anything else
any weapon(apart from fists) > blunt
nah, not really true, you will need to add atleast SwS and BD before blunt start losning in DPS compared to other weapons. with just PP or WC buffs the blunt is still the best weapon to use. i belive focus swords are the only weapon that might surpas the DPS of a blunt for a dwarf with just PP or WC buffs
i just checked and it all comes down to weapon SAs
its pretty **** hard to beat the DPS of a forgotten blade with focus since there is no S grade blunt with focus
the second you add COV and/or hunter its game over and the forgotten blade is rocking well over 10% more dps
i suspect that even if S grade had a focus blunt the forgotten blade would still have more DPS with only COV and dances
I've been in L2 for just under 2 and a half years now. If i've learned one thing it that ENTIRE time, it's that if anyone besides Dev's has this game figured out, it's our little automated enemies. Don't know how to properly play a class? Go watch a party for an hour, you get a **** good idea how to do it.
Just my 2 cents.
(I am in no way supporting automated play or anything illegal in regards to the EULA ~ Just a little disclaimer :D)
i just checked and it all comes down to weapon SAs
its pretty **** hard to beat the DPS of a forgotten blade with focus since there is no S grade blunt with focus
the second you add COV and/or hunter its game over and the forgotten blade is rocking well over 10% more dps
i suspect that even if S grade had a focus blunt the forgotten blade would still have more DPS with only COV and dances
we got a winner
thats why a forgotten blade used to be better in oly then a basalt
if your enemies had boss jewels