You know what grinds my gears.....??

Transformations and their super high costs. I mean, what's the catalyst for transformations nowadays? Crude Oil?

Don't get me wrong...I appreciate NCSoft for finally putting a fun aspect of gaming into L2 that was old in L1, but why on earth does everything have to be so freaking difficult in this game. I mean EVERYTHING!!

Please NCSoft...please..try to be kinder to your loyal fans. We've paid the money, played the game for years, and gotten to semi-high levels (with zilch reward I might add). Why not throw the player base the proverbial bone every now and then and actually make at least one gentle experience in this game. Just one thing you don't have to organize your butt off for or pay through the nose to get.

We should have been able to get different transformations at different levels. With the best transformations being allocated for Noblesse and level 80+ characters. As it stands, I could care less if I never get another transformation beyond the lousy 30 minute tiger. I used to look forward to Entertainment Island or Carnival Cove...whatever the devil they're calling it nowadays. But I'm fully convinced that it will just be some of the same nonsense. You'll probably end up spending 100k to join a game, have to win 10 rounds consecutively to win, get a box for a prize with a 40% fail rate when opening the box. Then on the off-chance that you get the box open...

"You have earned 5 Mithril Ore"
"Wait...stop crying"


Da Smookster...

Well said.

Yes, I agree.

Can't say i really care much for the transformations personally but i know what your getting at and i can sympathise.

I was more intrigued by the title of the post... a possible Family Guy reference... perhaps? lol

~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Eggy ^_^

Can't say i really care much for the transformations personally but i know what your getting at and i can sympathise.

I was more intrigued by the title of the post... a possible Family Guy reference... perhaps? lol

~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Eggy ^_^

My bet is on Bender from Futurama.

Nah. Peter did a news segment called "ya know what grinds my gears?"

Its what I thought of when I saw the title to.

The life crystal system sucks. That's the kindest words I have. The prices for full items from the adventurer's guide is ridiculously high making you think these items drop easily. I got a better chance grinding for the full item than trading it through the adventurer. I hope in the future the life crystals will drop from normal mobs even if rare or can be obtained through a quest.

/signed

Transformations FTW! :D

i read the thread 3 times i still cant figure out why he hates transformations so much... oh well

Its not them, themselves, its the process that is needed to get them. Why do they need to make them so difficult to get. Its not like they are end game things.

People want everything handed to them. Hence why WOW does so well in NA is simply because of the lazy game play, and lack of losses/risk's involved. Transformations are totally fine the way they are, in fact I find them a bit too easy to obtain. People expect everything to come easy, this game was created for an asian market where people work hard for what they have, not keel over and cry when new challenges aren't simplistic and dumb'd down.

u obviously don't raid much, before ct1 it was considered lucky to see an a grade life stone off a RB, and they went into the clan warehouse to be used for clan skills. to buy the life crystals from other players would probably cost u 50-100 mill depending on current prices, but probably more since ct1 launch, and u would be able to get 2 transformations mabey.

Actually, I raided quite a bit, and we obtained plenty of crystals... It wasn't a challenge at all, so not sure where you would assume that I wouldn't have. As for crystals costing 50-100mil, not sure who would have even been buying them for that much, since the only use for them was for Clan Skills, so Gratz to those on yoru server that managed to sell them for that much.

People want everything handed to them. Hence why WOW does so well in NA is simply because of the lazy game play, and lack of losses/risk's involved. Transformations are totally fine the way they are, in fact I find them a bit too easy to obtain. People expect everything to come easy, this game was created for an asian market where people work hard for what they have, not keel over and cry when new challenges aren't simplistic and dumb'd down.

Oh, I don't know, I think L2 quests are pretty dumbed down as they seem to consist of running around only to be sent on another subquest to run around.

They do tend to be tedious however.

People want everything handed to them. Hence why WOW does so well in NA is simply because of the lazy game play, and lack of losses/risk's involved.

No offense, but I ran a high octane raiding guild and the amount of time, resources(in-game), and coordination that it took to roll Molten Core, Blackwing Lair, and other 20/40 person raid instances was more than comparable to L2. The amount of individuals required to be competitive in PVE and PVP alone presented a hurdle that most people running clans in L2 might find daunting.

Playing on a mediocre level by yourself? Yes, that aspect of WoW can be considered exceedingly easy and accessible. Running a raiding/PVP guild with 167 people, 300+ accounts, multiple raid calendars, and planning guild progression 6, 9, or 12 months out? Not easy. What my officers, raid leaders, and raider/PVP regulars did to keep that train rolling? Not easy.

The difference as I see it is that L2 rises and falls are in the blink of an eye where WoW was a much, much slower paced game. To say that one requires substantially less commitment than the other is only a half-truth. To play any game at a high level requires more time and effort than most players are unwilling to commit to. To each there own. I did it once and it was an eye opening experience even for a person who had spent years in the military in charge of soldiers while simultaneously being responsible for millions of dollars worth of vehicles, equipment, and weapons.

Hell, to play checkers at a "high level" it probably takes effort and fortitude.

http://s163696184.onlinehome.us/dalaran/images/hardcore.jpg

to buy the life crystals from other players would probably cost u 50-100 mill depending on current prices

20 mil got me enough crystals to buy two transformations, after I traded extras for the ones I needed. The trouble is just finding someone selling, but even then 100 mil seems pretty steep. The raid boss transformations, sure, those should be costly and owning one would be a special thing. And they probably will be.

And yeah, I'm all for making them easier to obtain as well. Or at least offer more that are obtainable through the simpler methods, and make them suck less.

Actually, I raided quite a bit, and we obtained plenty of crystals... It wasn't a challenge at all, so not sure where you would assume that I wouldn't have. As for crystals costing 50-100mil, not sure who would have even been buying them for that much, since the only use for them was for Clan Skills, so Gratz to those on yoru server that managed to sell them for that much.

So how long did you raid and how many full items were you able to trade in with the crystals you got? The cost for transformations is not bad compared what is needed for full items which is just way out of line.

People want everything handed to them. Hence why WOW does so well in NA is simply because of the lazy game play, and lack of losses/risk's involved. Transformations are totally fine the way they are, in fact I find them a bit too easy to obtain. People expect everything to come easy, this game was created for an asian market where people work hard for what they have, not keel over and cry when new challenges aren't simplistic and dumb'd down.

I think you need to reread your post, go look up the definitions of the words "game", "play" and "fun", take a break from L2, play a few single player games, come back, reread your post again and then offer further comment.

People want everything handed to them. Hence why WOW does so well in NA is simply because of the lazy game play, and lack of losses/risk's involved. Transformations are totally fine the way they are, in fact I find them a bit too easy to obtain. People expect everything to come easy, this game was created for an asian market where people work hard for what they have, not keel over and cry when new challenges aren't simplistic and dumb'd down.

I think you need to reread your post, go look up the definitions of the words "game", "play" and "fun", take a break from L2, play a few single player games, come back, reread your post again and then offer further comment.



What Listof said.

People want everything handed to them. Hence why WOW does so well in NA is simply because of the lazy game play, and lack of losses/risk's involved.

No offense, but I ran a high octane raiding guild and the amount of time, resources(in-game), and coordination that it took to roll Molten Core, Blackwing Lair, and other 20/40 person raid instances was more than comparable to L2. The amount of individuals required to be competitive in PVE and PVP alone presented a hurdle that most people running clans in L2 might find daunting.



I'll follow on here. WoW is more popular abroad than in USA if you measure that by # of players, so it's not a lazy/ugly American thing.

For PvE, WoW has far more sophisticated challenges to players. Most of the people I've partied with in Lin2 don't show the skills it'd take to do a heroic 5-man in WoW, let alone harder dungeons.

They're very different games -- WoW is about teamwork, coordination, timing, situational awareness. Lin2 just doesn't pose those sorts of challenges. My WoW character has gear from server-first kills of T5 bosses. For those fights, 25 people need to move/act in concert - if someone's off by 1 sec you'll likely wipe. And you can't zerg to make up for a weak line-up.

On the other hand, pvp in WoW is pointless, just a system to give freebie epics.

But back to the original topic: lin2 devs seem to forget the basic things needed for a game. It should be fun, pose various challenges, and be rewarding. Instead there's one continual challenge, the mind-numbing grind (whether you're grinding to exp, to earn wealth, get the stuff for transforms...).

It seems in principle to be something they could improve, make the game more dynamic or interesting. But after these many chronicles, there may be too much inertia.

so it's not a lazy/ugly American thing.

You know, I'm standing right here. :)

People want everything handed to them. Hence why WOW does so well in NA is simply because of the lazy game play, and lack of losses/risk's involved. Transformations are totally fine the way they are, in fact I find them a bit too easy to obtain. People expect everything to come easy, this game was created for an asian market where people work hard for what they have, not keel over and cry when new challenges aren't simplistic and dumb'd down.

I think you need to reread your post, go look up the definitions of the words "game", "play" and "fun", take a break from L2, play a few single player games, come back, reread your post again and then offer further comment.



I don't see why I would need to do such a thing. Frankly you need to do what you just said, and tell me how my view is any less of a correct one than anyone else's. Because your view of 'fun' and 'play', etc are different than mine dosen't make you anymore correct here, and your ignorant if you feel so. I have fun playing the way I do, and earning the things I have, which is essentially why I play... for the challenge involved in L2, and the amount of time you actually need to work for those things overtime and the risks involved in getting them, and frankly plenty of people seem to be content with the game as it is, otherwise there wouldnt be such a small ratio of forum poster's to actual players complaining about little aspects of the game if that was the case. So do us both a favor and get your head out of your [censored], and try not to be so ignorant.

A thread of three pages, about an aspect of the game in which people feel should eb made easier dosen't really bode well for your crusade of trying to validate my views of being fun here, and franky it seems like this topic is in the far minority of people who actually feel this is an issue.

So yes, once again... Get your head out of your [censored], revaluate what your posting, and essentially try to be less ignorant next time.

People want everything handed to them. Hence why WOW does so well in NA is simply because of the lazy game play, and lack of losses/risk's involved.

No offense, but I ran a high octane raiding guild and the amount of time, resources(in-game), and coordination that it took to roll Molten Core, Blackwing Lair, and other 20/40 person raid instances was more than comparable to L2. The amount of individuals required to be competitive in PVE and PVP alone presented a hurdle that most people running clans in L2 might find daunting.



I'll follow on here. WoW is more popular abroad than in USA if you measure that by # of players, so it's not a lazy/ugly American thing.

For PvE, WoW has far more sophisticated challenges to players. Most of the people I've partied with in Lin2 don't show the skills it'd take to do a heroic 5-man in WoW, let alone harder dungeons.

They're very different games -- WoW is about teamwork, coordination, timing, situational awareness. Lin2 just doesn't pose those sorts of challenges. My WoW character has gear from server-first kills of T5 bosses. For those fights, 25 people need to move/act in concert - if someone's off by 1 sec you'll likely wipe. And you can't zerg to make up for a weak line-up.

On the other hand, pvp in WoW is pointless, just a system to give freebie epics.

But back to the original topic: lin2 devs seem to forget the basic things needed for a game. It should be fun, pose various challenges, and be rewarding. Instead there's one continual challenge, the mind-numbing grind (whether you're grinding to exp, to earn wealth, get the stuff for transforms...).

It seems in principle to be something they could improve, make the game more dynamic or interesting. But after these many chronicles, there may be too much inertia.



Player skill has nothing to do with why WOW is more popular than Lineage 2, that makes no sense.

- World of Warcraft is more popular because it actually markets to its gamers far more than Lineage 2. Little things like the dance moves that people can actually relate to, the commercials, the fact that they're has been South Park episodes about World of Warcraft. Heck, the most play I have ever seen Lineage 2 get was when MTV made that music video about what, 3-4 years ago now? lol. Frankly, even if Lineage 2 did market its product, it would never do as good as WoW simply because the style of gameplay Lineage2 incorporates Vs. that of WoW to the general populus, nothing to do about which is better than the other.

- World of Warcraft is more popular because it offers a more Lax gameplay to its players than Lineage 2. No xp Loss, Bonus on your XP when you login after not being in game for prolong periods of time. The fact you can Cap out in WOW in no time. If your telling me that this isn't a lazier style of play, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Lineage makes you work harder for what you have, no silly XP bonuses and what not. Its an Asian game made essentially for an asian market who play these games on a level far more competative than you will ever see from NC North America.

I can go on about listing off points, but I don't really see any point about getting into this whole age old debate of World of Warcraft Vs. Lineage 2. They are two different kinds of games, that essentially offer two different kinds of game play, so one can't really compare them in the same league.

But your view is wrong. You are calling a time sink a challenge, yet there isn't anything particularly stimulating about something which is only a matter of time.

And to then say that we must accept your opinion because it is your opinion, and then utterly fail to show the courtesy to us which we are expected to show you, quite frankly is not going to get you anywhere since you are neither king, nor big wig nor VIP nor genius.

We are not saying the transformations should be made easier to acquire in such a way that we should be given one every time we get up to take a dump (though in my opinion this is actually what you are asking for, as killing a raid boss is a ridiculously easy thing to do, but it is incredibly boring and unchallening because it takes so many people to do it, that each persons involvement becomes unimportnant we end up feeling more like a wheel in a machine unable to perform any function than the turning we were machined for, and then we do so only passively with no thought involved towards being able to change the outcome through personal skill; raiding is anathema to the idea of personal skill, growth, and accomplishment).

What we are asking for is a way to get some new and fun aspect added to the game which challenges us in way that adheres and is adapted to our preferable style of game play. This is of course a direct challenge to the developers of the game, as there are several styles of playing, however I consider the accomplishment of such a task to be a chance for the desingers to show their mettle.

People want everything handed to them. Hence why WOW does so well in NA is simply because of the lazy game play, and lack of losses/risk's involved. Transformations are totally fine the way they are, in fact I find them a bit too easy to obtain. People expect everything to come easy, this game was created for an asian market where people work hard for what they have, not keel over and cry when new challenges aren't simplistic and dumb'd down.

I would really like to know what challenges are involved in getting the lifestones for the transformations. L2 isn't a game built upon difficulty of gameplay, it's built upon length of gameplay. The hardest part of this game is motivating yourself to keep doing extremely boring and repetitive tasks over and over again for a meager reward. And I do mean "meager". I feel like I've put my time in getting a level 79 character and subclassing. Theoretically I should be in the upper echelon of the elite player base. As it stands, I'm just one more schmoe with too much time on his hands. So am I interested in forming a ton of raid parties just to get enough life crystals for just me and maybe 2 other people in the raid to benefit from? Heck no...and why should I be? Just to be able to transform into something for a buff cycle and then have it unavailable to me for god knows how long. It's a crazy proposal and the entire implementation is flawed.

It's the same kind of craziness that only awards clan leaders agathions and wyverns for taking over fortresses and castles. Like the clan leaders are able to take over these resources all by themselves. And even if you take over castles and the like, you have to spend money to get your crowns! Nothing is given away in this game. I, for one, and tired of the constant drudgery. We pay to play, we deal with the bugs, the bots, the constant adena advertisements, the lack of customer support, the repetitive events, the unfair olympiad, the clueless gm's, and the draconian xp requirements. I believe that we deserve a bit of tranquil relief.

And BTW... How dare you say that Americans want stuff handed to them and don't compare to the hard working asian market. We aren't the ones with the relax servers with the increased drop rates and lower XP requirements.

WE DO L2 THE HARD WAY!!!

(and we demand our respect for it)

Da Smookster...

But your view is wrong. You are calling a time sink a challenge, yet there isn't anything particularly stimulating about something which is only a matter of time.

And to then say that we must accept your opinion because it is your opinion, and then utterly fail to show the courtesy to us which we are expected to show you, quite frankly is not going to get you anywhere since you are neither king, nor big wig nor VIP nor genius.

We are not saying the transformations should be made easier to acquire in such a way that we should be given one every time we get up to take a dump (though in my opinion this is actually what you are asking for, as killing a raid boss is a ridiculously easy thing to do, but it is incredibly boring and unchallening because it takes so many people to do it, that each persons involvement becomes unimportnant we end up feeling more like a wheel in a machine unable to perform any function than the turning we were machined for, and then we do so only passively with no thought involved towards being able to change the outcome through personal skill; raiding is anathema to the idea of personal skill, growth, and accomplishment).

What we are asking for is a way to get some new and fun aspect added to the game which challenges us in way that adheres and is adapted to our preferable style of game play. This is of course a direct challenge to the developers of the game, as there are several styles of playing, however I consider the accomplishment of such a task to be a chance for the desingers to show their mettle.

Your first sentence alone is exactly my point of your ignorance. To you its a time sink, to others its raiding to get them, which ironically is somewhat like WOW, but im going to assume the WOW Raidning for gear is different. You think raiding is a time sink, others find it fun and a chance to group together with their clan members and work together for something. Not even going to bother reading the rest of yoru post because your so blind with your own ignorance its amusing.

People want everything handed to them. Hence why WOW does so well in NA is simply because of the lazy game play, and lack of losses/risk's involved. Transformations are totally fine the way they are, in fact I find them a bit too easy to obtain. People expect everything to come easy, this game was created for an asian market where people work hard for what they have, not keel over and cry when new challenges aren't simplistic and dumb'd down.

I would really like to know what challenges are involved in getting the lifestones for the transformations. L2 isn't a game built upon difficulty of gameplay, it's built upon length of gameplay. The hardest part of this game is motivating yourself to keep doing extremely boring and repetitive tasks over and over again for a meager reward. And I do mean "meager". I feel like I've put my time in getting a level 79 character and subclassing. Theoretically I should be in the upper echelon of the elite player base. As it stands, I'm just one more schmoe with too much time on his hands. So am I interested in forming a ton of raid parties just to get enough life crystals for just me and maybe 2 other people in the raid to benefit from? Heck no...and why should I be? Just to be able to transform into something for a buff cycle and then have it unavailable to me for god knows how long. It's a crazy proposal and the entire implementation is flawed.

It's the same kind of craziness that only awards clan leaders agathions and wyverns for taking over fortresses and castles. Like the clan leaders are able to take over these resources all by themselves. And even if you take over castles and the like, you have to spend money to get your crowns! Nothing is given away in this game. I, for one, and tired of the constant drudgery. We pay to play, we deal with the bugs, the bots, the constant adena advertisements, the lack of customer support, the repetitive events, the unfair olympiad, the clueless gm's, and the draconian xp requirements. I believe that we deserve a bit of tranquil relief.

And BTW... How dare you say that Americans want stuff handed to them and don't compare to the hard working asian market. We aren't the ones with the relax servers with the increased drop rates and lower XP requirements.

WE DO L2 THE HARD WAY!!!

(and we demand our respect for it)

Da Smookster...



Same for you. I'm glad you feel your OPINION is the correct answer, so I'm sorry you don't feel like you should work for something in game, and I'm sorry you feel it isn't a challenge but instead a waste of time. I'm sorry your too ignorant to realize that because YOU lack the motivation/desire to earn something that its a waste of time. Ignorance.

I agree with your second paragraph, that its a bit unfair (Prob Lazy on the Devemopers side) that normal players can't get to use fun things like Wyvrems and the lil angel/pig thing.

Also, if you think we do L2 the hard way opposed to our asian counterparts, your very uninformed on how thigs happen in korea.

People want everything handed to them. Hence why WOW does so well in NA is simply because of the lazy game play, and lack of losses/risk's involved. Transformations are totally fine the way they are, in fact I find them a bit too easy to obtain. People expect everything to come easy, this game was created for an asian market where people work hard for what they have, not keel over and cry when new challenges aren't simplistic and dumb'd down.

Your kidding right? Where do you think the RMT business started and thrives. NA players didn't create it RMT's were making millions before it even got to Na. Only thing that would be hurt by making stuff easier to obtain would be the RMT's business.

On the other hand, what brought me back to L2 was knowing at any time I could hit the jackpot just from killing mobs even though it hasn't happened yet LOL. I left for a while and tried a few other games that were a lot easier than L2. Played LOTR for a month hit lvl 50 and had top gear you could get, people still complained it was to easy and the auction house filled with overpriced item people ebayed for.

You are right saying people want everything handed to them. But it is no different in Na than it is in the EURO and Asian markets.

They may play the game differently but they still want it handed to them, or they just go out and buy it.

also helps there are no copy-right laws in korea where walker is legal they even use the L2 logo on the **** things. which would make getting things easier/lvling easier not like NA where one person reports another person that ain't even been on for a month gets banned.

plus i have a job, g/f, soon to be a baby in the house, dogs, rl friends (not sayin anyone else doesn't) but for the amount of time i do have to play, would like a bit more reward than 2 stems for my hard work. i see all these sig's with multiple 7x listings, how do ppl find the time to play that much? independantly wealthy? spoiled brats that mommy and daddy pay for everything? sure when VR was good, was fairly easy to get from 1 to 60, but 60 -80, hell, i still aint to 70 and been playin since OB (re-rolled a few times but not that much). all they gotta do is increase drop rates to what they were in c1/2 where a person "could" get a decent drop once a month instead of the soulless players gettin then sellin on ebay.

I wasn't disagreeing that WoW is more popular largely due to it being easy. It IS famously easy to get max level, 2 weeks play time max unless you mess around a lot. However it is much richer PvE than lin2, and success at the end-game levels takes more skill than lin2 (by a long shot), despite it being famously easy to get to max level.

But it's famously easy to Asians, Europeans, S Americans, etc. too, and more popular than lin2 in other areas as well. The 9 million WoW accounts are only 1/6 in the same market as lin2/NA, i.e. most WoW players don't use the Roman alphabet for their native language.

The so-called Asian play style is a false myth -- Asian people, just like anyone else in the world, enjoy having fun more than they enjoy mindlessly grinding thru unimaginative gameplay.

I don't see why I would need to do such a thing. Frankly you need to do what you just said, and tell me how my view is any less of a correct one than anyone else's. Because your view of 'fun' and 'play', etc are different than mine dosen't make you anymore correct here, and your ignorant if you feel so. I have fun playing the way I do, and earning the things I have, which is essentially why I play... for the challenge involved in L2, and the amount of time you actually need to work for those things overtime and the risks involved in getting them, and frankly plenty of people seem to be content with the game as it is, otherwise there wouldnt be such a small ratio of forum poster's to actual players complaining about little aspects of the game if that was the case. So do us both a favor and get your head out of your [censored], and try not to be so ignorant.

A thread of three pages, about an aspect of the game in which people feel should eb made easier dosen't really bode well for your crusade of trying to validate my views of being fun here, and franky it seems like this topic is in the far minority of people who actually feel this is an issue.

So yes, once again... Get your head out of your [censored], revaluate what your posting, and essentially try to be less ignorant next time.

I knew you were going to come up with some predictable bull answer like that. Get your own ignorant head out of your own behind and stop assuming you have any clue what my idea of fun is. I never said I was a WoW fanboi(girl) did I? I happen to like L2, would I be here if I didn't? I've never even tried WoW out and never will.

Obviously people have different ideas of fun and frankly, I find you to be quite dull-witted for even commenting on that when in a conversation with an adult. Does everyone on this planet play L2 and enjoy it? Um, no? Does everyone on this planet play video games and enjoy them? Again, no. So that's a completely moot point in this argument.

I actually wasn't even commenting on L2 at all but rather your completely asinine post. My point was that your post (all of your posts, actually) are filled with words like "work", "earn", "risk", etc., heck, you even throw in "overtime" for good measure! Anyone with the ability to understand English will feel more like they're reading a business memo than a post on a *game* forum. Even if you do enjoy a challenge, even if you do like setting goals and achieving them (that's what I like, personally), it is still supposed to be a GAME.

Since you obviously did not do what I suggested and still don't comprehend the meaning of the words:

Game --> an amusement or pastime
Fun --> something that provides mirth or amusement

And lastly:

Work --> exertion or effort directed to produce or accomplish something; labor; toil

Ive havent read all this cause Im at work and havent got time.

But ffs cmon grow some balls, Im glad this game aint easy, then I would have stopped playing it after 3 months.

Im glad you need to raid and earn stuff to get transformations. Makes it a goal...and a reward.

Cmon they combined the C/B/A into one, that has made me happy enough.

Harder = more satisfaction when u finally achieve it.