I had a discussion today with an old clannie... and i discovered (well, i knew for others, but not inside the clan i was in...) that people talked and reacted bad to me because i am a role player.
Well, it's hard to be a "Role player" in a game like that. so most of players like me, just do it soft, posting some role play things in forums, talking nicely to people in game, putting a lil touch of magic in the game with some legends' references... too resume: nothing bad and not "too much".
So how ? How someone can be "against" role play ? O_o
How someone can decide to pk another's player toon, just because he "hates" role play ? If it was for some role play reason at least ! but no ! >< (true story. all my party been pked and the killer answered exactly that)
So, i wonder. Am I the only one in that case?
i don't think so.
Is it like that only in Devianne ?
Maybe.. people are taking the game soooo seriously here... :/
Why the hell people think that Roleplay = Cyber ?
How is it in other servers?
some Role players are still here ? or all left for a more welcoming communauty ?
I personally find Role Playing amusing, and weird... but thats just my personal view on it. I don't hate people who do, but I can't help but laugh at the extent's some people go with the whole Role Playing thing.
Come to Lionna it's the unofficial role play server with weekly meetings in Heine with other role players in a player event called "The whishing well".
I do it from time to time on my BH, it tends to get mixed responses, one night, in Dion it led to a 3 hour conversation and goof off session between me and another player, it was absolutely fun and I found a good friend because of it. Another time I (in a rp fashion) went up and began chatting with a young (by dwarven standards) mage in upper EV and he proceeded to set me on fire, repeatedly.
I don't think I have what it takes to rp all the time, but I certainly do enjoy it some of the time.
People forget this is a game, and take things too serious. If I want to grab 14,678 goblins and drag them into town to follow me as my personal bodyguard squadron (and shouting hysterically about how awesome I am) why should that bother other people. I dunno, I just keep on keepin on y'know? :p
I had a discussion today with an old clannie... and i discovered (well, i knew for others, but not inside the clan i was in...) that people talked and reacted bad to me because i am a role player.
Well, it's hard to be a "Role player" in a game like that. so most of players like me, just do it soft, posting some role play things in forums, talking nicely to people in game, putting a lil touch of magic in the game with some legends' references... too resume: nothing bad and not "too much".
So how ? How someone can be "against" role play ? O_o
How someone can decide to pk another's player toon, just because he "hates" role play ? If it was for some role play reason at least ! but no ! >< (true story. all my party been pked and the killer answered exactly that)
So, i wonder. Am I the only one in that case?
i don't think so.
Is it like that only in Devianne ?
Maybe.. people are taking the game soooo seriously here... :/
Why the hell people think that Roleplay = Cyber ?
How is it in other servers?
some Role players are still here ? or all left for a more welcoming communauty ?
ty for your time, and have a very nice day ^_^
/discuss
lets address your issues quickly, as this thread is about to see some big flames.
how can someone be "against" roleplay? because it "doesnt fit" in a "pvp" game nevermind how open ended the story is (there currently is NO written history of the Kamael, nor are any language words given leaving it ALL to the imagination and roleplay) nor how intense the pvp may be. people hate RP'ers for the same reason you would look down on a poet or writer or actor. people sometimes hate the roles, and without the big effects of hollywood some people find "acting" in a videogame to be melodramatic and entirely boring.
some people see RolePlay as a complicated way of playing a simple game and avoid it. some see Roleplay as something sexual and therefore due to the impersonal nature of the internet avoid it for fear of ... playing... with the wrong gender on the other end.
there are a lot of view to what roleplay IS, let alone what its implications are, nor how to do it.
for that reason, some opt to say"roleplay is for carebears" i.e. people that can't pvp properly or get to high levels quickly, etc.
but i say different. this past tuesday at the "wishing well" on lionna (thank you Rohirrim) we saw "ladyKay" a level 80 Heirophant noblesse take a break from her time in end game to come and have some fun.
this is EXTREMELY rare and unusual even for "the RP server" lionna. most of the time there are but a handful of people at the well, some not even in B grade.
people who are intolerant towards non-pvp actions in the free and open world of Lineage2 on ANY server are also ignorant to what else there IS to the game. it isnt a game of pure pvp or pve or fishing; those are what a game NEEDS. what a game IS, however... that is whats left to the imaginations of its players.
Thx all for your posts ! i never though Lionna had more RPers than others servers ! that is a really good news ! =)
btw, what is your "wishing well" ? I mean, how do you make it? like a pic nic ? dropping potions all around and Rice Cakes, and talking all together like in a Garden party ? *_*
Spudnik got a point imo.
Players got a really bad idea about Roleplayers, and all those reasons i can see them around me. Even if it's all bad reasons.
Btw, Roleplayers are not all "non factors" or "carebears", even low lvls ! If only we could remove that image of us from others players mind...
I tried once. Explaining on blah that i was Pvping like all others, xping like all others, Sieging, raiding, questing, ganking, like all others...
But my message wasn't heard.
fishing ? "for carebears"
pets ? "for carebears".
Role play ? "for carebears"
Looks like a lot of persons are confusing everything.
Is it because they just DONT KNOW?
I would like to tell them.
Listen my words friends !
We are not differents from you ! this is just a game !
I don't think Role Players are any lesser of a player, they just find a different way to enjoy the game, so all the power to them, but like I said its just not my cup of tea, and I find it weird yet amusing at times.
well, as i said, maybe it's relative of my server or my case, but what is more.. hmm.. pathetic/dramatic/impressive/a pity (take all options).. is that some players got a real hate against Rpers O_o
i am daily insulted because i am a known role players.. if that can give you an idea.. >.>
It all depends on people. I'm not a roleplayer myself, but if someone starts rp with me, I'm open for that, and I sometimes enjoy it.
If someone acts hostile towards you, just BECAUSE you are a roleplayer, he is probably very insecure about himself.
The other thing is, that you won't find many roleplayers in L2. Things to achieve in this game require too much time and "out of character" organisation so it doesn't live too much place for rp. As my friend says, "level 76 will not reach itself" ;)
pliiiz... explain me why roleplayers are scaring according to you ? ^_^
Let's try to figure out with a concrete example.
I am not hardcore roleplayer, i will just talk to you nicely and say you "May the fire of Pa'agrio protect your day". You find me scary ?
You aren't acting 'normal' according to them. They know this world isn't real and if you act like it is, that is not 'normal'. Perhaps they are wondering if people who role play actually know the difference between fantasy and reality.
I think a lot of people forget that it isn't any different than acting. Yes, some people have a reality issue, but most of the people who role play just like to pretend... they like to act.
pliiiz... explain me why roleplayers are scaring according to you ? ^_^
Let's try to figure out with a concrete example.
I am not hardcore roleplayer, i will just talk to you nicely and say you "May the fire of Pa'agrio protect your day". You find me scary ?
finally, all is prolly a question of fear...
I probably used more of a harsh word than intended. Its not as much scary as it is ..... awkward.
Theres also people like me who think roleplayers by your definition are "double roleplayers". Let me explain :) Back in the 80's when I was playing those simple RPG games (you move your ascii avatar in a dungeon and you have stats that increase etc etc). Those games are called roleplaying games in the game industry. Asia quickly became enchanted by this game style and threw out many titles for consoles like my favourite MSX (~1983-1990).
Roleplaying games received the definition of "taking the role of a character in a videogame and interact with NPC's by means of dialogue. In that sense you are roleplaying: your character talks in character (as if you could do anything else in a singleplayergame).
Now let's go back to L2 and the "double roleplaying": my summoner is the one interacting with NPC's and gaining XP just like my RPG game of the 80s. Thats roleplaying to me (in terms of video games). Once people start acting, it starts to become LARP to me, not RPG. The chat coming out of people isn't well thought out or has an epic plot, nor do NPC's care what you say. As an avid RPG gamer thats just too crude/amateur to me. People acting like that just do not fit inside that thought to me, as it doesn't belong to an "RPG game" as defined in the early game industry.
That said I'm not a roleplayer hater; I've done quite some pen and paper D&D sessions and even went to LARP a few times (didn't really make me feel comfortable, but hey, wanted to try it). I just feel that roleplaying as defined by pen and paper D&D is not the same as "roleplaying" in a software title.
They probably should've called the software differently. I wonder if people would still attempt to throw in "D&D-play" inside it. Who knows :)
As for this game: L2 is a hardcore gamer game. It discourages a typical "gamer roleplayer" in so many ways that most already left after the first few months the game was released. You are bound to find more to games catering more towards such type of players you seek, like WoW, D&D Online and LOTR online (I played em all). Other games like this one, EvE Online and many other pvp orientated games just have very little to no room for the type of roleplaying you seek.
Typically games that aim at pvp are not roleplaying friendly. On top of that the average age of the gamers is quite low, ensuring in a lot extra immature behaviour you already implied you endured. Games which are less hardcore, less pvp usually have both a higher average gamer age and are more friendly towards roleplayers. Sometimes I get the feeling L2 is as low as 17 average age, while for example Anarchy Online (old scifi MMO from Funcom, maker of coming title Conan) had a stated average age of 23 and had a very large active roleplay community.
I don't think pvp is the deciding factor in does the player base like rp or not. It's the little stuff that caters to it. Like for example, in EQ, roleplaying was fun ,cause they gave us the little things that mattered. Taverns, beer, etc etc.
In WoW, that stuff still exists, L2 on the other hand, they take away that little stuff. So, since there is less to do on a broad basis, less people will roleplay.
In general your post points out limited views of one aspect of the game--there are others.
I know players who love L2 for the fashions (no-I'm not kidding). I know players who are fascinated by PvE challenges and work very hard to be really good at it. I know a very few players like myself who get caught up in the L2 economy (as strange as that may seem) and of course I know many RPer's and am one myself.
The most typical path to uberdom on L2 now is to get your toon powerleveled (either before or after you actually get it), ebay the means to get the best gear no matter how much it costs, run a few bot trains, get some other helpful 3rd party programs running, try to join the most uber clan that will have you, and then become a hero.
And that is certainly one way to do it.
Anything outside of that is considered weird by many players.
To answer your direct question--there are roleplayers throughout L2. As for them ALL being carebears--some of them will kick your [censored] for a song and whistle the toon themselves :)
I can't hate roleplayers, they don't take many xp spots! :p
While I roleplay on Ultima Online (lots of content to help), Lineage 2 is IMO too poor in terms of roleplay content. It doesn't interrest me to struggle for roleplay in a non RP-friendly game. So like a lot of people, I often "semi-roleplay". You know just a joke about how player X or Y are elves so that explain the mistake they made in the party, or how player Z is going to try to scam you because he's a dwarf.
And for cyber, it must come from some wannabe roleplayers who use the excuse that roleplay is about every aspect of the character, including sex, in order to systematically come to cybersex. When it happens once for a character, that's not important, but when it becomes the daily roleplay... it's sad. It's not roleplay anymore.
What's the more disturbing is when a roleplayer makes his/her character react to another character, violently for example, and the player behind the other character doesn't understand it's a play and that's how the character is supposed to react in his/her world. Then you have players saying "You're mad! You're confusing game and reality!", when in fact, roleplayers are the ones making more distinction between game and reality, because they assume their characters act and think differently from them when the other players think that the reactions of the character are the reactions of the player. ;)
However, it is true that roleplayers may have more or less ease to take distance from their characters. After playing a character a long time, involving a nice story etc, it may hurt a bit when the character is in a bad situation. But it's like writing a novel. The more your characters undergo, the more the story is interresting. Novelists are sadists I tell you! :)
Good luck for roleplayers, and sorry if I'm not fond of L2 universe to roleplay. See you in UO maybe! :p
I don't roleplay but I have to say that I haven't seen many roleplayers at all on Devianne and I know you stated that that was the server you played on. I wouldn't be hostile towards a roleplayer, in fact I used to roleplay a little bit when I first started the game. I don't see why people would be threatened by them considering the amount of people who "aren't in real life" even if they are playing the game without roleplaying.
As for being a carebear...well I dunno but I'm not a roleplayer and most people would probably point at me and go "there's a carebear for you" just because I never learned the proper way to pvp ;)
i just don't really get the whole roleplay thing but especially not in L2
"i am dorerth the mighty, i am on a quest to kill 5 thousand dragons for 1%!!!"
i just don't really get the whole roleplay thing but especially not in L2
"i am dorerth the mighty, i am on a quest to kill 5 thousand dragons for 1%!!!"
I was rerolling and I had a nuker toon. I was lvling in a party and this guy started talking about all of his great victories in the game. Oh... he was the tank. He talked about how he, unsuccessfully, tanked a raid boss and all sorts of other stuff. All of his exciteing victories over mobs and the history of him...
I didn't really care cause whatever... we were xping and I didn't care about green chat...
then he had a bad pull... there were a ton of mobs on us and I as the nuker, back when sleep worked, was busy sleeping the mobs. The room kept respawning and I kept sleeping and he kept chatting about how his sword was going to smite the evil mobs...
Eventually I died. no big deal cause I was low lvl... got rezed and continued to sleep... I died again... got rezed and continued to keep the agro that he kept pulling and shouting at slept... eventually after about 3 deaths (3-4 I don't remember) the mobs were clear and we went out of the room to rest mp.
I was fine... Deaths happen. But then he started talking about how this was a great victory for him! How he defeated so many mobs and lived! How only at the loss of 1 100 mobs were destroyed!
Well this is when I asked him to flag cause I wanted to test my damage. While flagged, I happily killed him. Told him it was a misclick and he got rezed. But... he rezed purple, while naturally I killed him again. Finally he was talking about the evil nuker and I explained that my f1 key was stuck. He said that he was sry and accepted rez. At this point I pked him. THe entire party had a good laugh (random party not clan) and we worked off my karama as he screamed in the hall about how evil we all were.
That is y if I ever see somebody rping I will pk them.
I've never really tried to RP, the idea of it seems pretty awkward to me when it comes to "greetings (smiles wryly) your dark elf bossom is blocking my view of the sun" haha or w/e. i dont really connect with that... but thats not to say I don't play for the fantasy of the game. I try to think of a cool name for my toon, try to get into the game for more than Pwn@g3. But I don't get the players who name their toons things like: IMWITHSTUPID, or BUTTHURT.. it really confuses me. Maybe its just a good way to not take it too seriously though... which is probably a good thing in the end.
But if PWNZOR is hating on somebody because they are interested in things that don't involve UBER PWN should probably get their head checked. But then again, i think i would get a kick out of cruising through, lets say a picnic in shillens garden, and massacring everybody i see talking about how good the biscuits are ;P
I was rerolling and I had a nuker toon. I was lvling in a party and this guy started talking about all of his great victories in the game. Oh... he was the tank. He talked about how he, unsuccessfully, tanked a raid boss and all sorts of other stuff. All of his exciteing victories over mobs and the history of him...
I didn't really care cause whatever... we were xping and I didn't care about green chat...
then he had a bad pull... there were a ton of mobs on us and I as the nuker, back when sleep worked, was busy sleeping the mobs. The room kept respawning and I kept sleeping and he kept chatting about how his sword was going to smite the evil mobs...
Eventually I died. no big deal cause I was low lvl... got rezed and continued to sleep... I died again... got rezed and continued to keep the agro that he kept pulling and shouting at slept... eventually after about 3 deaths (3-4 I don't remember) the mobs were clear and we went out of the room to rest mp.
I was fine... Deaths happen. But then he started talking about how this was a great victory for him! How he defeated so many mobs and lived! How only at the loss of 1 100 mobs were destroyed!
Well this is when I asked him to flag cause I wanted to test my damage. While flagged, I happily killed him. Told him it was a misclick and he got rezed. But... he rezed purple, while naturally I killed him again. Finally he was talking about the evil nuker and I explained that my f1 key was stuck. He said that he was sry and accepted rez. At this point I pked him. THe entire party had a good laugh (random party not clan) and we worked off my karama as he screamed in the hall about how evil we all were.
That is y if I ever see somebody rping I will pk them.
I lol'ed. I can feel your pain tho. It's **** annoying when someone that is supposed to be a leading role in a party is taking his time typing stuff ( no matter if it's RP or hotchat :) ).
re: Sunspark - L2 fortunately has very little in the ways of 'forced content' (Guild Wars, for example, acts like the Railroading DM From Hell, forcing actions, thoughts and speech on your character). That means that considering the general lack of story content (mot quests are obviously not 'canon', seeing how only so and so many people can possibly save the damstrell in distress, and there are only so many deliveries to make). As such, with the fairly thorough lack of given storyline, there's plenty of space in which to RP.
Re: The slaying of the 5000 dragons - most RPers (except some crazy ones like Tura ;p ) don't actually consider the grind a direct part of their roleplay - roleplaying doesn't equal 'everything my character does have a meaning' but rather 'at times, I assign/assume a meaning to something my character does'. That can be more or less rarely. PvP is much easier to unite with RP than PvE, but since most RPers tend on the legit side, with obligations out of game and in game time spent RPing, it is rare that an RPer gets the opportunity to PvP much (due to the 'omg I'll birng my main/higher level clannies' syndrome).
re: HI - Funny story. :p Bad RP gone horrilby right!
I think the biggest confusion comes from outsiders not understanding the IC/OOC boundary, that is, the vast difference between player and character. It is normal for people to say "I got PKed" not "my character got PKed": on some level, there is an assumption that character and player are, in the game, linked to the point of being equal.
If you start thinking about the character more like an actual play figure, to be moved around, prodded and had fun with, RPing starts to make a lot more sense. Nobody is pretending to be a dark elf, after all - they're just - cooperatively - writing a story about a dark elf. Maybe about how her boobs block the view of the sun. :p
Most gamers don't relate to rpers, so not necessarily hate but indifference (but L2 diffenitely has the highest puppy punter per capita of any game I ever played, thats another story). On gustin I've run into 3 rpers so theres definitely not a strong rping community there (or on bartz from what I hear from guildmates). Its interesting to see rpers in this game, considering the lack of lore or storylines as well.
You all say the game is not designed for Role play (and that is the excuse for Rp haters to insult me).
What about pets ?
what about fun park incomming ?
what about weeding quest ?
what about all landscapes where mobs are not interesting enough to go xp ?
what about fishing ?
Aren't all this a support for roleplaying without being a hardcore roleplayer?
okok, people will say : carebear.
so there is 2 kind of people in this game : pvper and carebears. RPers are part of carebears
i got it ? strange point of view :/
btw, i noticed that, hopefully, Rp not only bring hate. Some people start roleplaying a lil bit at my contact. a new hope maybe ! :)
Carebearing and roleplaying /coincide/, they are not actually in any way, shape or form neccessary for each other.
L2 offers the single two most important supports any game needs to be friendly to the kind of RP I do:
- It does not railroad (few required quests, those that are are unobstrusive)
- Open PvP (being unable to fight people where you want is a severe hampener on trying to develop anything resembling a complex plotline).
It also does have plenty of lore and story. Just not shoved in your face... which is really good if you want to RP.
I do it from time to time on my BH, it tends to get mixed responses, one night, in Dion it led to a 3 hour conversation and goof off session between me and another player, it was absolutely fun and I found a good friend because of it. Another time I (in a rp fashion) went up and began chatting with a young (by dwarven standards) mage in upper EV and he proceeded to set me on fire, repeatedly.
I don't think I have what it takes to rp all the time, but I certainly do enjoy it some of the time.
People forget this is a game, and take things too serious. If I want to grab 14,678 goblins and drag them into town to follow me as my personal bodyguard squadron (and shouting hysterically about how awesome I am) why should that bother other people. I dunno, I just keep on keepin on y'know? :p
De We have to go thru this again? (grabs dagger and looks at ManicMonday )
RP is fine I have no problem with it in town or just chilling with friends. However when I'm hunting the one thing I can't stand is a person that talks to much while hunting. I Love people that RP I do it my self sometimes but if I'm hunting at the time and they are in my party RPing I'm like HIeverybody I will kick them from party if I'm the leader if not I will just PK them.
Just out of interest, what do you do when you are roleplaying?
(Maybe you've already said but I havn't read all of this post).
I think the extent of roleplaying I do in L2 is calling someone a smelly orc... haha. I've never come across someone who roleplays... I don't understand how someone can "hate" someone who does it.
In my opinion ******s, haters, griefers, people who shout insults and put you on their KOS list instead of trying to be rational and talk in full sentences, players who are all agressive and love nothing but pwn, PK, and "own" n00bs, have a serious problem and should use the money they spend on this game and any other game to go to see a good old therapist and talk about their neglecting mothers and abusive fathers, while sparing us all of their pathetic existance.
I admire role players for their efforts to make this game more deep and meaningful, bringing a little magic and fun with them. I've met some nice, dedicated role players in Lineage, and honestly i think that if everybody were like these guys, this game would be a whole lot better and even more popular! And maybe the lame ZOMGOWNTHEMALL players would return to their shooter games, where they belong.
I'm not a role player, maybe i'm a carebear from the "majority's standards" point of view, but who the hell cares anyway?I play this game the way i want it and i want to enjoy it without making it unbearable for others, its a mmoRPg not an mmoPVPg, its about playing with others and enjoying the community and the human factor, for those who cant handle it, let them go play single player games.
Just out of interest, what do you do when you are roleplaying?
That is the funniest part. People say i "rp too much" but the only things i do is being a fashion victim, having hairpin same color as my outfit, say "greeting Sir" instead of "hi man" one or two "May the fire of Pa'agrio lead your arm to crush your ennemies's heads", a funny macro for when we were going to charge in mass pvp ( "Under the protection of Pa'agrio ! For the glory ! Chargeeeeeeee !! " and emote who goes with) and being in town with a pet.
i talk funny when i post on L2blah. putting smileys and making examples like mini scenes with actors.
I really don't think that is hardcore roleplaying O_o
Most of RPers do like i do i guess.
The problem, is not the lack of "support" for RP in game (bah.. we lack of emotes !) but the community mentality about it.
Blackcat resumed it pretty good. and i agree with him about the "better go see a doctor instead of grieffing RPers in game" part.
In what role play can disturb them? I still wonder.
At the light of all posts made in that topic, i believe more and more that they "fear" it.
Is role play making me more dangerous in pvp ? in siege ? in xp group (lol.. ok.. it can with people who are typing role play instead of making their job in the party ! :P) ?
Tell me, Charmille, did you ever play when you were a kid? Did you ever tell stories? Have friends?
I feel sorry for people like you who cant PLAY a game.
You fail to see the entire point of this discussion.
Perhaps you bunch should go see therapists first. You're the ones who need to act as someone else. Coping problems?
watch movies and say the same thing ?
RP is drama. acting. singing, dancing, poetry.
movies and plays are too.
i suggest you tell Christian Bale he has problems and to go see a therapist. lawsuit to follow.
Hollywood is a puffed up fantasy world. just like L2. stop playing if you cant handle other people in your fantasy space.
QFT O_o
We are just acting. not pretending we actually ARE our toons.
I mean, the toon got a graphic. If we were supposed to BE our toon, then characters will just be our own pictures imo.
You watch movies and think you're in there? Ok buddy, I'll call that therapist for you.
I think that the issue is many fold.
RP is pretty much improv. You can go to many improv clubs and see whole scenes played out for the entertainment of a paying audience (unless of course the tickets are free for some reason).
However, the issue is that in improv, experimental theater, theater, etc, there is an implicit agreement with the audience member that they are part of the drama as well.
Go to Blue Man Group(a popular performance art show in the boston area and on tours) and you have to accept that you will in some way be part of the show. Don't like it? You don't go.
However, I suspect that roleplayers break the 4th wall (theater term indicating the imaginary wall that would be between the audience and the players if the world of the players was real) with the audience members or whoever is there to experience their roleplay.
If the entire game was marketed as a roleplay game then there would be no excuse for non-roleplayers. You would just know that it was part of the world, much like the Blue Man group example.
But the game is marketed as a pvp game. That is going to primarily attract a different set of people who are very much interested in person vs person competion.
Suddenly, you start roleplaying without the agreement of those around you and what you are doing is breaking that 4th wall and including the audience against their will.
What many roleplayers might not understand is that what they are doing is a sort of theater, and in theater you have to know your audience. And you have to know whether it is acceptable to break this 4th wall.
Complicate matters with people who think role playing is "hot chat" or whatever, bad role players, the "thee and thou" group and you just get a bad experience despite a willing audience.
The more I think about it the more I understand the reason for a role play server. I think game designers don't actually understand the community agreement that is necessary to make a role play environment feasible.
Because if I am hunting, grouping, etc and suddenly someone drags me into their own personal little passion play, I"m going to get annoyed.
Please keep in mind I've acted, directed, wrote for theater, etc. So it's not like any of this is new to me.
But take this type of theater and push it on me when I'm not interested in "attending" and I'm not going to be happy.
On top of that, add groups of people who really aren't plugged into this type of community and you are going to get people who don't get it, don't want to get it, don't understand it and aren't willing to, and generally get angry for having to deal with it.
So, long and the short of it is that role players have to practice a sort of public consideration - like cell phone users on a subway - and be mindful that not everyone wants to "hear their conversation".
Of course one could say that players shouldn't be announcing vendetta against a group just because they play differently but let's be realistic. In a game where anything can create strife between players and thus fuel the drama and politics that drives the game, roleplay is just another catalyst.
wow Sovrath ...
you gone far.. but i follow you step by step in your explanation. *claps hands, amirativly*
Never though about the "4th wall". Obviously, you got a great point on that.
Roleplaying server would be the solution, and make the game more nice for a lot of us.
BUT ! (yes yes.. there is a "but")
If i agree with you when you say the player who start L2 doesn't think playing in a role play environment but in a pvp game; i disagree about saying the game is made that way or marketted that way.
L2 is described by NCsoft as a MMORPG. please not the RPG part. "Role Playing Game"
Tell me, Charmille, did you ever play when you were a kid? Did you ever tell stories? Have friends?
I feel sorry for people like you who cant PLAY a game.
You fail to see the entire point of this discussion.
Tell me, did you ever use your brain? Obviously not.
I play the game, I dont pretend to be some frail elf maiden in need of a knight in white armor, so to speak.
What confuses me, with the logic that has been explained (and I accept it for what it is, dont get me wrong here) that there are those so called hardcore will complain about someone forcing them into their play style (RP) but they have no problem forcing others into THEIR play style, or calling them names if they dont. Double standard? I think so, of course they wont. Its your way or no way (Im not saying any *you* here, its a general statement, dont take it as starting an argument or pointing figers please :)) and the one reason *some* might say it is because they think RPers are trying to force others into their fantasy....by the same token, we are foriced into their fantasy (hardcores) by being forced to pvp when we dont want to etc. I know, clear as mud, it makes sense in my nutso head at least!
ETA...even though I am learning to RP (havent even once as of yet) and enjoy it, I wouldnt ever force MY style on anyone or require that they RP or put up with me. When I hunt and am focused, or its an intense area, I tend to just be quiet except in lull moments. I hate dying and avoid it at all costs lol
wow Sovrath ...
you gone far.. but i follow you step by step in your explanation. *claps hands, amirativly*
Never though about the "4th wall". Obviously, you got a great point on that.
Roleplaying server would be the solution, and make the game more nice for a lot of us.
BUT ! (yes yes.. there is a "but")
If i agree with you when you say the player who start L2 doesn't think playing in a role play environment but in a pvp game; i disagree about saying the game is made that way or marketted that way.
L2 is described by NCsoft as a MMORPG. please not the RPG part. "Role Playing Game"
Think about it this way,
It's like saying "I'm going to a record store". How many record stores actually sell records these days? (and how many are still around :eek: :o :eek: )
If it was automatically understood that any MMO RPG actually had roleplay automatically inorporated as a common aspect, there wouldn't be the need to make roleplay servers.
So what happens is that, on servers that are not designated as "role play" you have a mix of people. Because of this, a social convention needs to be followed.
Oh, I suppose you could say "well then, people who don't roleplay should respect roleplayer's rights". Well, killing and stealing is wrong and yet people do it.
I say understand your medium and work within its confines as you aren't going to change people's minds given the limited world of Lineage 2.
Tell me, Charmille, did you ever play when you were a kid? Did you ever tell stories? Have friends?
I feel sorry for people like you who cant PLAY a game.
You fail to see the entire point of this discussion.
Tell me, did you ever use your brain? Obviously not.
I play the game, I dont pretend to be some frail elf maiden in need of a knight in white armor, so to speak.
Uh, in a way you are pretending to be *whatever toon it is you play* because it certainly isnt YOU out there hunting mobs or other players and it isnt YOUR skills killing them is it? Cuz, if it is, are you sure its RPers that need therapy? :p
What confuses me, with the logic that has been explained (and I accept it for what it is, dont get me wrong here) that there are those so called hardcore will complain about someone forcing them into their play style (RP) but they have no problem forcing others into THEIR play style, or calling them names if they dont. Double standard? I think so, of course they wont. Its your way or no way (Im not saying any *you* here, its a general statement, dont take it as starting an argument or pointing figers please :)) and the one reason *some* might say it is because they think RPers are trying to force others into their fantasy....by the same token, we are foriced into their fantasy (hardcores) by being forced to pvp when we dont want to etc. I know, clear as mud, it makes sense in my nutso head at least!
Yes, but since it is a pvp game and since you sign into it, you tacitly agree to the rules that govern the game. And that is open pvp. It is marketed as a pvp game first and foremost. Whether you agree with how well they have implemented it, well, that's another thing...
And Charmille... you'll always be my little elf maiden ;) ;) ;)
Promoted, but that doesnt mean it has no place. There are a lot of things within the game that isnt promoted....maybe we should write to nc and have all of that removed?
Game lore allows for free RPing, and they allow mute....same thing, different style.
Game mechanics allow for free pk/pvp. They also allow you to block others so yeah, by that alone HC way is promoted, RPing is not.
there is a vague story in the lore of the game leaving RP open to interpretation for ENDLESS possibilities. its a writer's heaven.
btw, writing a story, acting a story can also involve PVP and PK. your narrow view of "light elfs in Imp. Cru. pretending to be chivalric knights of the 2nd order" is ignorance incarnate, devoid of meaning or of actual writing. FAIL.
you couldnt pretend to be .... anything ... to save your life.
how much imagination have you really got? probly none if your avatar is any indicator.
What confuses me, with the logic that has been explained (and I accept it for what it is, dont get me wrong here) that there are those so called hardcore will complain about someone forcing them into their play style (RP) but they have no problem forcing others into THEIR play style, or calling them names if they dont. Double standard? I think so, of course they wont. Its your way or no way (Im not saying any *you* here, its a general statement, dont take it as starting an argument or pointing figers please :)) and the one reason *some* might say it is because they think RPers are trying to force others into their fantasy....by the same token, we are foriced into their fantasy (hardcores) by being forced to pvp when we dont want to etc. I know, clear as mud, it makes sense in my nutso head at least!
Yes, but since it is a pvp game and since you sign into it, you tacitly agree to the rules that govern the game. And that is open pvp. It is marketed as a pvp game first and foremost. Whether you agree with how well they have implemented it, well, that's another thing...
And Charmille... you'll always be my little elf maiden ;) ;) ;)
Dont get me wrong, I'm not complaining about pvp and I dont hate people that pvp...but there is a lot of hatred and people looking down upon those that RP. Just because it isnt my *thang* doesnt mean it has no place, there is so little RPing on the servers it amazes me that utter distaste people have about it and the way it is show (in game, out of game, all over the place). Just pointing out thoughts :)
Lore has no actual meaning in the game you know. Even if the lore states that your grand grand grand fathers second cousin was the Emperor of Aden, you dont get any benefits from it. However, PK/PVP system is there and you cant do nothing about it. Unless you sit in town 24/7, in which case I'm wondering why you're not in some RP chat room instead.
Promoted, but that doesnt mean it has no place. There are a lot of things within the game that isnt promoted....maybe we should write to nc and have all of that removed?
Game lore allows for free RPing, and they allow mute....same thing, different style.
And of course there is a place for it. But since the OP is wondering why players have issue with it, I proposed my post.
At the end of the day you are going to get players who have no tolerance for it and will go out of their way to make roleplayer's lives miserable.
Since there is no recourse for roleplayers other than to fight back, you have to make choices.
However, maybe that is the choice. If roleplayers don't like being pk'ed, maybe they should rise up and pk their oppressors.
Game mechanics allow for free pk/pvp. They also allow you to block others so yeah, by that alone HC way is promoted, RPing is not.
there is a vague story in the lore of the game leaving RP open to interpretation for ENDLESS possibilities. its a writer's heaven.
btw, writing a story, acting a story can also involve PVP and PK. your narrow view of "light elfs in Imp. Cru. pretending to be chivalric knights of the 2nd order" is ignorance incarnate, devoid of meaning or of actual writing. FAIL.
you couldnt pretend to be .... anything ... to save your life.
how much imagination have you really got? probly none if your avatar is any indicator.
Oh please, a guy who has fries as an avatar is commenting on my imagination. Whats next, having a Japanese clan name?
You need an already existing story to write and act, sad. Perhaps stick to just eating those fries.
I don't think the problem is to be pked or involved in pvp.
I been long time in pvp clans doing sieges and gank and all stuffs.
The problem, imo, is being pked "because" i am a roleplayer.
If a Elf girl or man come and kill me and my team saying "I hate you disgusting orcs !" it would have more sence for me ! =)
so we will "war" him back trying to find him wherever he is and take revenge ! at least, would be fun. *evil smile*
i definitly vote +1 for the RP server
btw, most RPers are doing it so soft.. i don't think anyone feel oppressed or forced by our fantasy O_o
Game mechanics allow for free pk/pvp. They also allow you to block others so yeah, by that alone HC way is promoted, RPing is not.
there is a vague story in the lore of the game leaving RP open to interpretation for ENDLESS possibilities. its a writer's heaven.
btw, writing a story, acting a story can also involve PVP and PK. your narrow view of "light elfs in Imp. Cru. pretending to be chivalric knights of the 2nd order" is ignorance incarnate, devoid of meaning or of actual writing. FAIL.
you couldnt pretend to be .... anything ... to save your life.
how much imagination have you really got? probly none if your avatar is any indicator.
Oh please, a guy who has fries as an avatar is commenting on my imagination. Whats next, having a Japanese clan name?
You need an already existing story to write and act, sad. Perhaps stick to just eating those fries.
PS. IC is not white, please come again.
actually, youve failed YET again. as Sovrath correctly pointed out, a lot of RP is done Improvisationally. no writing or script. the imagination fuels the ongoing dramas or scenes. of course, in a game like L2, without an existing story to play upon, one can correctly write one's own if one so chose.
btw, fries is what i be eating while i watch others do their RP thing. it is no indication of my imagination. also, i never said i was a guy. i acted like one. i made you believe.
RP in l2 is open to interpretation. RP in UO, or UT, Eve, or whatever other game even WoW is very restricted and imgainative RPing is often WRONG.
If you're not a guy, then you're one hella ugly woman or posting fake pics on the internet, in which case you're in the same cast with other lowlife scumbags.
It's also nice of you to use other posts that were not quoted or discussed as your reasoning, lawl. Fail more?
Lore has no actual meaning in the game you know. Even if the lore states that your grand grand grand fathers second cousin was the Emperor of Aden, you dont get any benefits from it. However, PK/PVP system is there and you cant do nothing about it. Unless you sit in town 24/7, in which case I'm wondering why you're not in some RP chat room instead.
Lore has no meaning to you. There are many of us, not all role-players, that enjoy reading the lore. They enjoy doing the quests for the sake of the quest, not just clicking through it to get the shiny thing at the end.
There are people that collect items from quests (Galfredo's Bust, anyone?) because it suits their definition of their character.
The point that has been made several times is that role-play is a choice. Some choose to push their role-play on others, some do not.
As for myself? I speak to those I party with outside of my usual circle. If they are not comfortable with RP, I don't do it around them.
And as I first said, as long as you leave the rest of us alone, I dont care. But since all these whiny little maggots have to come cry about how "RPrs are being harassed, boohoo" this and that all the time and pretty much shove it in our face, I do mind. Stick to your RPing and stop making it into some international drama on the boards. Or are you RPing here too?
No one is shoving anything in your face. All that has happened is someone trying to understand why people don't like RPers. It is the same question I once asked, and the same question many of my clan mates have asked.
To you, that is. The game is what you make of it. You want to make it purely about smashing buttons and material things, thats your problem, not mine. No reason to hold a persons choices against them, yours, or RPers.
However, PK/PVP system is there and you cant do nothing about it. Unless you sit in town 24/7, in which case I'm wondering why you're not in some RP chat room instead.
Once again, I have nothing against pvping, obviously enjoy pve or I wouldnt be here, and dont think any less of people that choose to be big on PVP and other aspects of the game. By supporting RPing I am in no way shape or form saying that those who dont are worthless or crap or any other number of things that RPers get called. Seriously, instead of arguing for the sake of arguing, read, I am sure you will find plenty to pick apart...you always do.
Unlike those that choose not to RP, those that do are able to multitask and enjoy all eliments of L2 along with their RPing. Sitting in a chat room doesnt provide those things, L2 does. People that enjoy it can hunt and RP, they can sit in town and RP, they can RP about their hunting, etc.
And as I first said, as long as you leave the rest of us alone, I dont care. But since all these whiny little maggots have to come cry about how "RPrs are being harassed, boohoo" this and that all the time and pretty much shove it in our face, I do mind. Stick to your RPing and stop making it into some international drama on the boards. Or are you RPing here too?
You have to be kidding me, right? Now you are going to tell people what they should or shouldnt post on the forums simply because it isnt of interest to you? This is an aspect of the game that some people enjoy. Maybe not YOU, but others do and the OP was curious about why all the hate about it. So, by that logic, any topic that you dont want to hear about should just not be on the forums?
With how much you argue with people, I would imagine that would leave the forums a very quiet place indeed. :)
To you, that is. The game is what you make of it. You want to make it purely about smashing buttons and material things, thats your problem, not mine. No reason to hold a persons choices against them, yours, or RPers.
Actually, I'll rather have fun with the politics, economy and people in the game. I dont need to make any stories about this and that to interact with people.
Once again, I have nothing against pvping, obviously enjoy pve or I wouldnt be here, and dont think any less of people that choose to be big on PVP and other aspects of the game. By supporting RPing I am in no way shape or form saying that those who dont are worthless or crap or any other number of things that RPers get called. Seriously, instead of arguing for the sake of arguing, read, I am sure you will find plenty to pick apart...you always do.
Yet your brethern are telling people who PK/PVP for the fun of it to go see a therapist. The PVP part is not to you alone, it is to everyone of you that is crying in here.
Unlike those that choose not to RP, those that do are able to multitask and enjoy all eliments of L2 along with their RPing. Sitting in a chat room doesnt provide those things, L2 does. People that enjoy it can hunt and RP, they can sit in town and RP, they can RP about their hunting, etc.
So if you dont RP, you cant multitask? Right-o. First you say you dont go judging and the next instant you judge every non-RPer. And how does not RPing make you not enjoy every aspect of L2? RPing is not actually an aspect of the game, it is something that players make themselves.
You have to be kidding me, right? Now you are going to tell people what they should or shouldnt post on the forums simply because it isnt of interest to you? This is an aspect of the game that some people enjoy. Maybe not YOU, but others do and the OP was curious about why all the hate about it. So, by that logic, any topic that you dont want to hear about should just not be on the forums?
With how much you argue with people, I would imagine that would leave the forums a very quiet place indeed. :)
Nope, I'm just having fun with the expense of you lot since for some [censored] reason, the NA RP population seems to be the most sensitive and *****y one I've yet to meet when it comes to games. A few choice words and you get them all ranting and defending themselves. Weak self-esteem or wut? Cant take a little flak and move on smiling?
PS. I've played D&D(the _old_ one), AD&D, Vampire: Masquerade and Dark Ages, Hunter, a few _self_ made RPs and LARPED, OMG! Still, I find the way you lot act something totally different from the hundreds of RPers I've come in contact with and played with.
To you, that is. The game is what you make of it. You want to make it purely about smashing buttons and material things, thats your problem, not mine. No reason to hold a persons choices against them, yours, or RPers.
Actually, I'll rather have fun with the politics, economy and people in the game. I dont need to make any stories about this and that to interact with people.
Once again, I have nothing against pvping, obviously enjoy pve or I wouldnt be here, and dont think any less of people that choose to be big on PVP and other aspects of the game. By supporting RPing I am in no way shape or form saying that those who dont are worthless or crap or any other number of things that RPers get called. Seriously, instead of arguing for the sake of arguing, read, I am sure you will find plenty to pick apart...you always do.
Yet your brethern are telling people who PK/PVP for the fun of it to go see a therapist. The PVP part is not to you alone, it is to everyone of you that is crying in here.
Unlike those that choose not to RP, those that do are able to multitask and enjoy all eliments of L2 along with their RPing. Sitting in a chat room doesnt provide those things, L2 does. People that enjoy it can hunt and RP, they can sit in town and RP, they can RP about their hunting, etc.
So if you dont RP, you cant multitask? Right-o. First you say you dont go judging and the next instant you judge every non-RPer. And how does not RPing make you not enjoy every aspect of L2? RPing is not actually an aspect of the game, it is something that players make themselves.
i enjoy pvp so much that i openly called the biggest, baddest alliance to come get me, and they WOULDNT pvp me. we had a staring contest for over an hour. if anything, the pvpers are SCARED of the rpers. in general.
charm the only person crying here is you. boo hoo theres no lore for me to play with, boo hoo if i RP my clan will kick me. boo hoo i cant do anything in this game except pvp and pk.
All I can do right now is laugh at you, honestly. You take something I say and make it about something I havent said at all. Did I SAY that people that dont RP cannot multitask? No, I said that those who do RP can.
For a while, as I read the forums I thought you just liked to argue, now you look like a troll. Show me where I said non-rpers cannot multitask? Show me where I said non-rpers are not enjoying the aspects of the game that they wish to? It is an aspect of the game to those that choose to, those that dont...well, it isnt.
I believe it was you that started the run on about seeing a therapist, might be wrong, I will re-read. So, its ok for you to do it, but you get mad if others say it when its against your logic. Ok, gotcha!
I ALSO can have fun in the game with polotics and all that other jazz that you tossed in. As I said before (I wish you would read, please, try it) I havent RPd even once, but am learning. I have had a lot of fun in the game without the RP aspect, and I enjoy the RP aspect as well. I dont *need* the stories, but sometimes I enjoy them. Granted, at the moment it is as an outsider, but I enjoy it none the less.
Perhaps if you would post in a way that wasnt so attacking, people wouldnt feel the need to defend. Since I see you are using choice words and saying things just to troll and upset people, I wont reply again. I hope you had fun, I had a great laugh about ya lol
I believe it was you that started the run on about seeing a therapist, might be wrong, I will re-read. So, its ok for you to do it, but you get mad if others say it when its against your logic. Ok, gotcha!
I do believe it was that BlackKat, but whatever hun. You and Spud are providing all the entertainment for now, so easy to bait along. Jay atleast can keep himself in check ;)
betcha if i snuck in to Tsuki on an alt reroll named Zergruber who happened to be Noble, you would be kicked for FAILING to screen me properly.
betcha if i rolled a toon on Teon and started harrassing your members, messaging your wartags of your pve loc's, and generally perstering you that they would kick you if i told them thats what i wanted.
for your "hardcore"ness you forgot who was watching.
take it to blah. i am sure you have a much better opinion of yourself when youre there. you singlehandedly raise the collective Intelligence of that community by a whopping point!
ive no doubt some of you are A grade. probably few of you are S grade. probly you guys need some help at sieges and raids and fortresses.
and jute, it would NOT have progressed this far if SOMEONE hadnt decided to post their ignorance.
Where does it say endgame clan? Selfownage again buddy? Secondly, perhaps scroll down to the end of the thread. Next, check TribalUnrest thread, and read what the AW says there.
As to Fortresses, we have one, thank you very much. As to raids, we can do them, thank you very much. Now, how about you and your imaginary friends?
Nothing would go this far if you would have had even half a brain given on birth.
Where does it say endgame clan? Selfownage again buddy? Secondly, perhaps scroll down to the end of the thread. Next, check TribalUnrest thread, and read what the AW says there.
As to Fortresses, we have one, thank you very much. As to raids, we can do them, thank you very much. Now, how about you and your imaginary friends?
Nothing would go this far if you would have had even half a brain given on birth.
hmm...
i think you proclaimed yourself an end game player when you tried to flame me for making destro and tyrant setup suggestions.
yeah, you AND julia.
what do i have? i have all i need, or want. i just need to sit back and converse with my comrades. weve created more epic battles and slain more dragons than your clan could take fortresses.
I have to agree with sovrath as well even though i never considered the 4th wall bit, although I rarely have any issue with people harassing us about rping. Those that do, we challenge them and fight them, sometimes we win, sometimes we loose.
Last time I saw someone harassing some rpers on our server i privatly PMed them to please step outside town with me. They were atleast a good 10-15 levels above me, so I offered him some pvp pts instead of harassing people for enjoying their time in Giran. The harassing comments from this player stoped and he did not accompany me outside.
The two biggest lessons to learn from this thread is truely Sovraths statement and actually one from Charmille. the RP community here in l2 does not stand up for themselves, and imo likes to be martyrs at the hands of the powers that be. Stand and fight, even if you loose, dont be bullied.
i think you proclaimed yourself an end game player when you tried to flame me for making destro and tyrant setup suggestions.
yeah, you AND julia.
what do i have? i have all i need, or want. i just need to sit back and converse with my comrades. weve created more epic battles and slain more dragons than your clan could take fortresses.
Spud, why do you have to lie and always drag non related stuff into a discussion? I have stated I am end game where? Please give quote really, because I only recall giving ADVICE about it. And for flaming that’s so bs. Just because I disagree with you does not make it a flame. I have tried to keep the tone semi-nice despite you insisting on dragging in my clan and trash talking it in multiple threads. You don't play on Teon, you haven't been in Tsuki and all the contact you have to it is through a discussion forum.
Really Spud, as an adult person just for what reason than others to be an [censored] do you continuously have to spew lies and trash talk other peoples clan and members?
For the record, no Charmille wouldn't be kicked. Thing is Tsuki consist very much of a core group of friends, which keeps growing. There is strong support and camaraderie there, we have a good reputation and we are growing rapidly. Yet of course, you place yourself in a position to trash talk it all over the place because you don't like Charmille and I don't agree with you.
One thing is for sure, I will never understand people like you that are in the frame of mind that because people aren't agreeing, you got to try to undermine them with lies and insults to stuff that 'matters' to them.
Sorry for the OT, but Christ Spud, its so bloody annoying that you try to mess with a clans reputation because you don't like Charmille and apparently not me either since you gotta make up lies.
Have yet to meet any RPer on Teon though I imagine any convos could be quite interesting and refreshing from the usual chatter o.O
Besides, I've seen few people more insecure than the [Censored] waving so-called "ubers". Someone gets just a little better than them, and they throw a fit.
See thats exactly why people like you,Charmille should go see a therapist. You gotta put that anger and virtual balls of yours under control. If this was real life, you'd be the one in need of a new face for insulting so many people.
Unfortunatelly we're all stuck with eachother because neither the RPers nor the PKers would give up this game, so if we cant get along, why not just ignore eachother?Role players wont harasse you to torture you endless stories but you will pk role players. You're the one with problems, not them. You're the one who instead of ignoring a discussion that annoyes you, come here and flame, insult and make more posts that all of us. So chill, try an *****, i heard it helps :P
this hasnt been a discussion since people began HATING Rp'ers. i flamed because people needed flaming. and i do not regret one sentence.
So the XX players of tsuki and the reputation many have worked hard to build and maintain, needs to be flamed because you didn't like what Charmille said? Furthermore you got to drag me into it stating some lies? Gah...
The topic is why do people hate them, think reading these posts can give an inkling since as you stated "people began hating on them". Another factor I suspect is some people just find it "lame" and "annoying" that your EE starts praising Eva or something like it. Personally I would find it entertaining, probably kid around and offer the EE cookies to sacrifice to Eva - in a tongue-in-cheek manner ofc <.<
But Spud I still don't see where this brings in you repeatidly trying to trash my clans rep and put it down. I will fill it under because I don't agree with you and your dislike of Charmille since you chose to not give me an answer on that point.
Anyway, gl to the RPers, hope to party some one day.
Truthfully, it's been done and over done. Flamefests aren't kicking it old school, it's like living in the 90s and yall are Hootie & the Blowfish shlock.
See thats exactly why people like you,Charmille should go see a therapist. You gotta put that anger and virtual balls of yours under control, charmille. If this was real life, you'd be the one in need of a new face for insulting so many people.
Unfortunatelly we're all stuck with eachother because neither the RPers nor the PKers would give up this game, so if we cant get along, why not just ignore eachother?Role players wont harasse you to torture you endless stories but you will pk role players. You're the one with problems, not them. You're the one who instead of ignoring a discussion that annoyes you, come here and flame, insult and make more posts that all of us. So chill, try an *****, i heard it helps :P
Anger? I'm posting while smiling :P If this was real life, none of you would even come and complain at me. So, have fun and Merry Christmas ^^
Yeah, well that is no news since it seems that everyone always misses your point. Perhaps because there is no point? Other than that you're a troll feeling insulted and trying to get back in every possible thread there is. Sorry if your "builds" are laughable and you got some flak for it, get over it.
Spud was there any point to be seen amongst all the trash talking? I guess you didn't notice that just because Charmille and I, are in the same clan, it does not mean we discuss stuff in the same way or manner on a forum. You say I missed your point, fine I don't care. You still chosen to not reply to anything I asked you. I'll be an optimist and take that as a sign that you know it was OT and silly and therefore prentending you never did it.
Don't think there is much left to discuss on topic in this thread anymore as well x.x
The problem, imo, is being pked "because" i am a roleplayer.
If a Elf girl or man come and kill me and my team saying "I hate you disgusting orcs !" it would have more sence for me ! =)
Frankly, there is no reason why an L2 Elf should say that to an L2 Orc. It's probably the most common mistake of RP wannabes in L2 that they try to roleplay the race... as it happened to be in some completely different world.
The problem, imo, is being pked "because" i am a roleplayer.
If a Elf girl or man come and kill me and my team saying "I hate you disgusting orcs !" it would have more sence for me ! =)
Frankly, there is no reason why an L2 Elf should say that to an L2 Orc. It's probably the most common mistake of RP wannabes in L2 that they try to roleplay the race... as it happened to be in some completely different world.
And yes, it looks lame to non-roleplayers too.
Actually, given the history of the wars between the elves and orcs, that does make sense. Were it not for the humans and their scope of numbers, the orcs would have dominated the world.
By Einhasad's beard, this thread caught fire hastily! Yeah, I don't really see the appeal of role playing.
And I'd be unable to deactivate the shame mechanism in my brain long enough to role play In L2. If you want to act, go act. I acted for years, it's good times. But if it helps you enjoy the game more, then more power to you. To the OP: 90% of the people in the L2 community are cynical, jaded, and socially inept, so who gives a squishy [censored] what they think about what you need to enjoy the game.
- Someone who RPs at you without asking is just being rude (some RPers disagree, but even I, as someone who loves RP, hate hate hate being treated as if I was IC in a game like L2 where it just makes zero sense to be IC at all times). Consider it the equivalent of a PKer, except they don't get karma for it, they just get kicked from groups (hopefully).
- Yes, buff macros with the same line in them over and over are annoying, because the characters already say the words/prayers for their spells. Far as I'm concerned, repeated battle cries are for NPCs, not for players ... but to each their own, I suppose.
As far as I've seen it, 99% of all RPing in Lineage II consists of people who consent to RP with each other either partying up and RPing in the field or, indeed, sitting in town somewhere and RPing.
Just because the only RP you notice is that being forced on you doesn't mean that that's the way most or even many RPers behave: That's like concluding from being PKed (and not seeking out PvP) that all PvPers must be people who do nothing but pick on poor lil lowbies all day long.
If someone's bothering you with RP? Tell them in clear OOC terms to bugger off and leave you alone, or just kick them from the party.
Woah, you know what ?
I totally agree with Maline :D
I guess it must be this Xmas spirit and everything :)
Anyway, yes, L2 is clearly not designed for RP...
That's why i went back to Star Wars Galaxies a while ago when i was bored with the Lineage grind, because SWG, on the other hand, is clearly 100% designed for RP and RP only. In there, you reach high levels pretty easily, get money pretty easily, kill mobs pretty easily, because those points are not the main points of the game, all of them are there only to make RP easier. You can build your own houses, gain military ranks in the Galactic Civil War that are actually shown on your character and other ppl respect you for it, etc...
As much as i love L2, it's clearly not a Role Playing game, so no wonder we're having such a hard time finding Role Players here (even on the "unofficial RP server" which doesnt really have more RPers than the rest of the servers), it's just not the way the game was designed in the first place.
That doesnt mean that it's impossible to do some RP here and there, but the game mechanics do not allow us to make this easily (we cannot have any long-lasting effect on the environment whatsoever, 80% of the quests are plain stupid, ...).
So now, when i want to do some real RP, i play SWG (or even better, pen-and-paper D&D), and when i want to play a "hardcore" achievement-based game with beautiful graphics, deep lore but only a tiny bit of RP in it, i play L2.
Now, hating RPers ? I dont really see the point, if someone annoys me, i just use /block and go on with my business...
L2 is described by NCsoft as a MMORPG. please not the RPG part. "Role Playing Game"
/back to ontopic again ppl Oo
I'd like to repeat myself again about this "RPG" part. Ascii games back on your amiga/286/msx/whatever were called RPG games too. It's a genre dubbed by software developers. It's a different term with the same name. RP != RPG. In many cases however (MMORPG's that is) roleplay _IS_ a factor, but thats because of other things (marketing, lore etc) rather then the game being called "RPG".
RPG in this verb only means "a game where you controle 1 or more characters whom you interact with in the virtual world and gain experience for - typically by means of buying stuff for money from mobs, gaining lvls etc".
For instance, the Shillien Elder who calls for Shilen's blessings upon her party (i.e. buff macro).
The paladin who points (hate) and issues an order to his wolf to attack. (00: /useskill hate 01:%petname, Attack! 02:/petattack)
(forgive the syntax on that last one. I've not looked at it for a while).
The warlock that uses a macro to summon one of her servitors...
That is exactly what should be sentenced to be hanged by the feet and whiped with nettles.
That's not roleplaying, that's annoying your party. Type with your fingers "I will protect you with the power of Einhasad." in the beginning of the hunt and that's all. It doesn't bring anything to repeat stupidly the same thing over and over again. It's just spam.
Everyone that plays L2 is already role playing as themselves, Hence the Politics, and Drama.
Thats just my opinion.
No. There's no "roleplaying by accident" thing. Common misconception.
This is about roleplay as playing with puppets according to the world of the puppet, not about the sociological aspects of MMORPGs.
That is exactly what should be sentenced to be hanged by the feet and whiped with nettles.
Oh, now see... that's just threatening me with a good time.
But I understand your point of view, I do. Fortunately, I've moved to just one macro for the blessings, then silent macros to actually hand out the buffs.
Thx all for your posts ! i never though Lionna had more RPers than others servers ! that is a really good news ! =)
btw, what is your "wishing well" ? I mean, how do you make it? like a pic nic ? dropping potions all around and Rice Cakes, and talking all together like in a Garden party ? *_*
Spudnik got a point imo.
Players got a really bad idea about Roleplayers, and all those reasons i can see them around me. Even if it's all bad reasons.
Btw, Roleplayers are not all "non factors" or "carebears", even low lvls ! If only we could remove that image of us from others players mind...
I tried once. Explaining on blah that i was Pvping like all others, xping like all others, Sieging, raiding, questing, ganking, like all others...
But my message wasn't heard.
fishing ? "for carebears"
pets ? "for carebears".
Role play ? "for carebears"
Looks like a lot of persons are confusing everything.
Is it because they just DONT KNOW?
I would like to tell them.
Listen my words friends !
We are not differents from you ! this is just a game !
bah... T_T
Just keep doing what you do to have fun in the game. Find players who think likewise and/or respect your way of playing the game.
As a roleplayer you'll have a really hard time when it comes to interacting with non-roleplayers, ESPECIALLY IN L2, but if you can play it well and don't let anything disturb you in your fun then you'll have a long road of memories anyway ^__^
People fail to grasp this concept (and forgive me if it's been said before, I stopped focusing on the thread once the preschool behaviour emerged) but EVERYONE RP's in this game. Not just in the 'swords and sorcery' way, but we've got the insecure social outcasts who have so much internal anger that they come to the game and pretend that they're tough thugs whose balls are bigger than a pair of beach balls, and that they lay the smack down on every person that crosses their path. I've met many L2 players in real life, I've seen the fake gangster pictures on blah; everyone just comes to this game to pretend to be tough in hopes of being accepted by 'real' tough people, and in such boosting their ego out of insecurity.
That's all it is in the end, everyone is trying to find their niche in the game to be accepted in. RP'rs want to be accepted by other RP'rs, Most Pkr's want to be accepted by people who think bullying others is funny (although I'm in the aqaintance of people who like to PK/PvP but RP at the same time) Rp'rs could care less if the non-rp'rs hated our guts, just leave us be and we'll leave the pk'rs alone on the days they decide to xp and work off that karma. Most RP'rs do keep to themselves so those of you whom had bad run-ins with the rp'rs that most Rp'rs stay away from are pulling your opinions from 1% of the rp populace of the game.
well, it is. RP is a subjective word. RP is essentially just 'pretend', you've just got varying degrees of it amongst people.
Even first person shooters have some form of RP in it, even if it's within your own head.
People play this game for many different reasons, and the only "real" way to play L2 is to play the game w/e way its fun for you.
I think Narla is getting a little defensive here.. iuno why,
Most people I know play this game for the competetive nature of it. Work hard at it and play hard, and for me, the true payoff isn't omg wthownedbucket in the face or w.e you think is an ego trip. Its making friends and accomplishing things together, as a team. that sense of accomplishments binds friendships and tbh, the nature of this game is in that type of interaction.
Most of L2 is designed to make competetion from various different groups, in which there is 1 group or person who becomes the winner. And even further, most of them are based on some sort of pvp ability.
Of course there are exceptions; festivals, Hot Springs clan hall, and others, and even though they are not pvp based, they are still competetive functions of L2.
I'm not saying its a fact, but I don't personally feel that serious RP was designed for game functions in L2. I mean we got emotes and stuff lol, but I dont see many highlights for role play in the game.
Anyways, people are going to obviously make fun of those who choose to play the game a little different and that should be expected. But even so, I don't think that anyone can seriously say they hate RP-ers.
Let's just come to an agreement and say people play the game for different reasons and that's okay :O
It is noteworthy that most RPers in the commonly understood sense of the word aren't for a moment pretending they're an elf lady or brilliantly shining knight or whatever. In that sense, they use the characters as figurines rather than as extensions of themselves, like normal players do.
I suppose the type of person Narla describes is, in a way, more of an RPer, because they really get into the role and do think they're somehow tougher or more hardcore for having reached endgame and/or a high PvP count off someone's alt. :p
and the only "real" way to play L2 is to play the game w/e way its fun for you.
In a way this is true. :P I still doubt the part about most people playing for competition, because most servers wouldn't be so full of cheaters if that were the case. =)
Rainday, I frankly don't think you have an understanding of all the things RPers would be doing if there were enough of us and a clean server. Things like castle and clan hall sieges, major raids, seven signs and the open PvP are things that enable really good RP (cresting Aden castle is a lot more epic than sitting in a tavern getting drunk every night).
However, there are more things (or should I say people, lack of people) in this game that disable that RP than the mechanics can hope to compensate for.
People play this game for many different reasons, and the only "real" way to play L2 is to play the game w/e way its fun for you.
I think Narla is getting a little defensive here.. iuno why,
It wasn't my intention to come off as defensive, I apologize for seeming that way. I do have a strong opinion about this matter though so that possibly came through a bit.
But yes, you're exactly right. Everyone plays the game for their own kind of fun. I just tend to see those who 'hate rp' trying to mash their views into those who do, (same with PvP vs PvE of course) and those who do RP get accused of doing just that when they really don't.
Rainday, I frankly don't think you have an understanding of all the things RPers would be doing if there were enough of us and a clean server. Things like castle and clan hall sieges, major raids, seven signs and the open PvP are things that enable really good RP (cresting Aden castle is a lot more epic than sitting in a tavern getting drunk every night).
I'm not saying that RP-ers would not enjoy these things and that they wouldn't RP the lights outta em, I'm saying that the game mechanics of L2 make it so that these functions are to be a competetion. IE. Castle Sieges; they created them to be first and foremost, competetive in nature, and not created for their RP qualities.
There have been some very Elite top notch clans, who were also RP-ers at the same time.
IE. EternalRage and even some members of my clan StaR in c2. We had quite a few RP-ers in our ally and owned all 5 player held castles. These players however ahd pvp play 1st, and RP as 2nd in their minds.
BUT, the majority of RP-ers don't play this game as competetively. Therefore, even if they wanted to use these functions as RP functions, they wouldn't have a chance at it, Because L2 is made to be a highly competetive game. (game function)
I personally didn't understand RPing at all, but I would laugh with some of my clan members who did. I became to respect it because I could see it was fun for individuals. At a time, I was inviting RP-ers to Innadril Castle, in which my clan owned, to have their RP in the castle hall on certain days. Even featured in the l2 role players website.
Im not arguing with you about RP-ing the game at all. Im only speaking of the way I believe the game mechanics were created with competetion in mind first and foremost and RP became something that spawned out of it.
Nothing wrong with having it competitive in an RPG. Competition brings out the best conflicts, and conflicts bring out the best plots. External conflict is easier to RP than internal conflict, whether it be a clan war, a duel or a siege, and is therefore more beginner friendly.
However, your assessment is accurate: There are not enough RPers, and among them, there are simply not enough interested in playing 'at the end game' (which might or might not have something to do with the currently perceived state of that end game) or in PvP at all, to ever uncover the full RP potential of L2.
Both Mallie and JKoster have provided the clues for the basis of this disagreement imo.
There is no single "definition" of whatever RP is supposed to mean.
Consequently when a party member begins shouting "thee and thou" (which I've personally never seen and don't believe happens) it gets tagged as some kind of role-playing.
I have a more simple definition of role-playing. The character I have in game is a "something distinct"--with his basic personality and background information. That's it.
Obviously that toon isn't ME! And for a few of us that is a fun, added dimension to the game--that we can expand the imaginary world of the game a little bit. It's nothing more than that.
I've never heard an RPer shout out 'thee' or 'thou'. And I'm comfortable saying I've been around a LOT of RP in Lineage2.
It's as simple as story telling, hearing lyrics from a song (obviously not while hunting or during a seige!), or discussing a pretend issue that one of the characters may have (in-character).
I don't RP while I'm exping or engaged in other things (like seiges). I level, I party, I raid, I market, I seige, I war (and generally die).....and I ALSO role-play.
I'm in a great role-playing clan (currently with 2 wars declared against us), and we do everything everyone else does. We also happen to have background ideas about who our toon might be.
That certainly shouldn't threaten others.
The OP posed the question about "RP haters". Yes, Virginia, they clearly exist in some numbers--there really are RP haters.
There is a significant bias against RPers--and not because they run around being stupid, playing horribly, endangering others, or force their stories on strangers. RP haters exist because they dislike everything outside of their understanding.
Nothing new here. RP isn't for everyone. But if you choose to try it out and to become known as a participant, you will certainly be persecuted for it. There is no tolerance of RP anywhere in the game and there never will be.
And that's just fine. Because everyone who pays the fee gets to define what they like and appreciate about the game. An RPer gets to roleplay if they want, and [censored] intolerant ubers get to target RPers if they want--it's that kind of a game (lol).
Look at it this way--most of us actually have to grind a toon up through levels (well, not most of the heroes on Lionna--but pretty much everyone else). So you have that grind from about 53 onward that gets tedious. RP is just one thing you can do to break up the boredom.
It doesn't hurt anyone else (contrary to the fairy tales told above in this post)...and generally if you do it others will make you pay.
You just come to accept that part.
well, it is. RP is a subjective word. RP is essentially just 'pretend', you've just got varying degrees of it amongst people.
Even first person shooters have some form of RP in it, even if it's within your own head.
No. Seriously, if you define a word by "it defines everything, vaguely between the ground and the sky, with more or less atoms...", then you just remove the word itself. If it's not clear, what's the use of the word?
Roleplay is not a new thing we just discovered in video game thank to you Narla. I'm sorry if that sounds aggressive, I don't want to be mean. Roleplay in games didn't wait for you to be defined.
And roleplay is to play a role that is not you, ie acting as a different character according to it's universe and its defined personality. You are "in character" when you use your character's knowledge to act and you're "out of character" (ie not roleplaying anymore) when you introduce metagame knowledge.
With your definition, either you roleplay at work when you try to get a bonus, you roleplay when you're with friends and you use your social role to lead or undergo the activities (you're social), or you roleplay just by playing a game (you roleplay a tennisman/woman in Pong, you roleplay a hotel manager in Monopoly...). But then that's not what the OP was talking about. That's too far-fetched.
Your own friends call you a failure and wish you weren't around so plz don't even begin talking about "PKing" because you're one of the biggest noobs on your server.