Berserker MP Consumption?

Does anyone else think that kamael skills cost way too much MP?
They should balance the Mp/Effectiveness abit in my opinion, i don't know for the other classes but got issues with the zerker..if i open True Berserker and play with skills abit the MP pool goes to zero without even noticing, you need a SE recharging all the way if you want to play the zerker in full potential.. it's the same for the other classes(daggers?) you will say probably but thing is that zerker skills aren't that effective, so MP consumed should be less.

So far that's the only issue i got(not to mention the insufficient SP problem)

No class except necromancers and spellhowlers can maintain 'full potential' skill use over prolonged periods of time without a recharger.

I'm not sure how much you are trying to spam, but in general melee classes aren't meant to use more than a handful of skills in PvE. Spamming is for PvP. :3

Having True Berserker on(Don't know mp/sec because it's not displayed)Shoulder Charge to some mobs and then Dark Smash in order to overhit and that's it, no skill spamming or something...maybe if the mp consumption was less for True Berserker things could be better.

I wonder if anyone else is having issues, but hey.. maybe it's just me :P

fatal strike 3, destroyers learn at 40, power 694, mp 43.
dark smash 3 berserkers learn at 40, power 694, mp 34.

kameal skills use less mp already due to the requirement of souls, as for the toggle skills, no mellee toon can regenerate mana equivelent to the use by the skill with the exception on knight classes with focus mind.

Well one you don't have to use true beserker its only a small boost you can either use skills w/o TB or use TB w/o spaming skills and yes rushing to every thing(which costs alot of mp) and trying to overhit everything(which cost mp and sp) is spamming for pve which is bad to use with a toogle... btw I tested it after you hit about high 40s low 50s it only drains when you run and slowly when you stand it regens slowly when you walk it doesn't move when you sit it regens slow

Overhitting does not cost you SP. When will people learn this? =_=

No, but it will leave you lacking millions of SP at high lvls if you go thru 1-75 with overhitting almost all mobs. Thanks to the boosted EXP ratio from overhitting compared to the SP ratio which stays the same.

Yes - it means you'll have an extra level or two over people with equivalent SP. "Boohoo, I'm too high level." Is it really so horrible to wait for skills? Cuts the grind to have something other than the level to work towards.

It is horrible to wait for skills if the only meaning of that level is to get that one skill that will make you able to perform better. Now, I would be really ****** off if I hit 79 and didnt have the SP to get OTB, hence why I'm trying to avoid overhitting anymore, I'm already lacking SP(altho active sieging and some wars have balanced the situation somewhat in the past).

My point exactly... Unless you waste you AA on sp scrolls(which amazes me cause theres an easy level 25 quest which gives you 42k sp and is repeated and cheaper than spending hordes of AA on a 100ksp scroll).

Never tried that quest, but wouldn't it just be faster to kill 30-50 mobs at higher level to get the same SP in way less time :p

Yes - it means you'll have an extra level or two over people with equivalent SP. "Boohoo, I'm too high level." Is it really so horrible to wait for skills? Cuts the grind to have something other than the level to work towards.

Overhitting essentially costs you SP.

You are thinking in terms of getting an SP penalty from overhitting in that you get more XP but the overhit nuke makes the mob give less SP. Of course, it doesn't work like that.

What overhitting does is throw off the XP:SP ratio. Repeating trivial info for those who don't know: You get more XP, but your SP gain stays the same - unaffected by the overhit skill.

It seems that under normal circumstances, you get about 9-10% worth of SP when you compare it to the XP you get. When you overhit often, you degrade you SP gain alot. You lose SP as you level due to overhitting often. This is bad because NCSoft adjusted skill costs based on how much XP is needed per level. When you overhit alot, you get all the XP, but you don't get all the SP. That is why classes like Necromancer often can get all their skills at every skill level, even though they have more skills than most classes in the game - but classes that overhit often like Spellhowler and Spellsinger often have trouble getting all their skills and have to "skip the 'useless skills'" as a result.

When you overhit alot, you may think it's okay since you can just "skip the 'useless skills'" as you level, but when you get to S Grade it will come back to haunt you.

Half of level 76 wasn't enough for me to buy just Ice Vortex as 77 due to often overhitting mobs. I was over 2.1M SP short. Half of level 76 is alot of XP, but I basically went 15% faster becuase I overhit like 80% of the mobs (using both high level and D Grade Overhits) to level as fast as possible. Had I not overhit so much (like, had I been a Sorc), I would have probably had more SP than I needed.

How much SP do you think you'll be able to rack up for level 78+ skills seeing as how there is still a skill at 77 (the Fusion Seed) to get and there are like 3 level 78 skills. If you overhit that many mobs, that is.

Skill OE is in S Grade. Overhitting may level you fast, but once you get to S Grade you will essentially level slower than everyone else because they will have all the SP they need to OE their skills, and you will often not have enough because everytime you gain the necessary XP you will be too low on SP due to overhitting.

Skill OE costs uses the same formula that NCSoft uses for skill set cost per level.

The SP required is roughly 10% of the XP required. Actually, I think it's a clear cut 10%. Currently OE'ing skills at 0%, I always end up with .02-.05% left over after I go +1 a skill and that's becasue of the overhits :)

I guess if you eventually get there, you will see why people say they "lost XP from overhitting". ;)

Oh, and BTW, the amount of SP scrolls I had to buy to cover that 2.1M+ SP I needed for that skill (cause I was burnt out from levelin at that point) is not worth the extra speed in leveling.

With the way NCSoft balanced the Skill Set/OE costs in the game, you should not have to wait for much of anything if you don't "abuse" overhit skills (which normally come at a hefty MP cost anyways).

Trensharo, the whole point is that when you overhit, you get more levels per time, but not less skills. Which means you can either be level 58 with level 56 skills or level 56 with level 56 skills. It doesn't take a genius to see which of those can likely hunt faster, miss/fail less and therefore get more SP.

Yes, you will be ahead of your skills. No, that's not a bad thing. You get more SP per time the farther along the level curve you are, so in effect you are getting your skills faster.

And if it really should bother you that much to be ahead, just PvP a bit.

I have an SE but I've hunted alone for a while when my SE account was inactive. I still managed to keep my Berserker MP rather ok, I rarely sat down even if non-herb areas.

But the main problem is the toggles, if you just use ONE toggle (ex True Berserker), try to pay attention to your mana. When it gets to a certain low level, untoggle it and just hunt normally. Shoulder charge only mobs that actually need to be stunned (ex: you won't shoulder charge mobs that you can kill in two, three hits because it'd be a waste of MP. You would want to shoulder charge those that either hit you hard or are longer to kill), you can manage your MP fine with it.

But yeah, the toggles are MP's worst friend and Berserkers get a lot of those :(

Ehh, no class can keep their MP up while spamming skills and having several toggles up. I have War Frenzy, Accuracy and VS. If I put all those on and spam skills, I'm OOM faster than a SPS spamming nukes with full cast speed buffs. The toggles were never meant to be on all the time, especially all of them. They're situational skills that you turn on and off.

In fact that's what I was telling the OP. He can't expect to have MP if the toggles keep on being on all the time. He can even hunt with True Berserker on, but he has to keep an eye on his mana to untoggle it as soon as his MP gets to a medium-low level (so he still has MP for "emergencies").

What I meant is that the Kamael have LOTS of interesting toggles that in some cases could be useful if they had been buffs. But oh well.

If they were buffs, you'd be out of buffslots very fast. Toggles are good for a few reasons, and when you need them, the MP usage hardly matters.

They probably would had made it a stackable bezerk however I like it better as a toggle due to the fact that buffs do infact get fully quickly although in ct1.5 I would want it as a buff :D

True berzerker is not bad for ur mp, it drains very very slowly. I keep it on at all times (I dont think any toggle that increases that many stats should be left unused).

I do use an SE to be able to Violent temper everything, but my other Berzerker friend dont require much mp at all, and we go for long grind sessions where we both leave TB on at all times.

Oh, and the SP problem fades when u hit mid 60. Its alot of skills to get in the beginning, often 3 lvls at a time too. At higher lvl u get only 1 or 2 lvls of the skill at a time, and u catch up in SP.