I guess most bots will close accounts(like 1/3? of them). Since most are companies that sell to all servers.
About the servers I really dont care. Just merge 3 Gustins in 1 Gustin then we get to see some live players :)
Watch out, they're gonna lock this thread too, just like the 2 others about Server Transfer/Merge :mad:
It seems that we've hit a soft spot here...
The previous threads were not locked because of the server transfer/merge discussion. We welcome the discussions about this topic (try to keep it in one thread though, please). The other threads were locked due to several forum rule violations (one of which I explained).
As long as the discussion remains constructive, this thread will remain open.
which servers do you think should be merged? and which server would you "be able to stand" getting merged into.
I think we should wait and see what happens after transfers are added. Let the "market" determine which servers die. If they would convert some to EU servers, I think that would go even further to getting the populations consolidated of their own accord.
The problem with the idea of "possible" mergers hanging out there is if everyone hangs and waits around for what would be a free transfer (cause they surely can't force you to pay to be moved against your will), many people won't move and the servers may stay like they are.
I'm more for making servers 6, 7 and 8 into EU servers and leaving them all up.
I mean why pick those? why not make 1 2 3 EU servers?
the lest populated.
After server transfers some servers will die hard. While some will improve in number of players on it. IMO hidmith, bratz, teon, franz will improve, While kain, erica, devidane will die. Lionna might improve.
Will deffently will need another Euro server. I think NCsoft isn't looking ahead at how many Euro players will switch after they allow players to move from one server to another server. Euro players would finally be able to take their noble mains to Teon or frantz. Where they would be more happier on a server designed for their play style.
The world is getting bigger, the level gaps are getting bigger AND the population is getting smaller. Don't need to be Einstein to see there's a problem.
Server mergers will be nasty specially if you own a clan hall or castle on your previous server. Loosing the CH will be enough to make me hang it up for good.
Server mergers will be nasty specially if you own a clan hall or castle on your previous server. Loosing the CH will be enough to make me hang it up for good.
I don't think there will be any merges for the above reason.
If they did to merges they would have to strip all clan halls and castles from the clans that own them, returning them to NPC control.
Server mergers will be nasty specially if you own a clan hall or castle on your previous server. Loosing the CH will be enough to make me hang it up for good.
Considering a Fortress is just as good (sometimes better) then a CH..
An Castles are just as good (now better) then a CH...
If people wanna play a single-player RPG, they should go out and buy one. This game was made to have tons of people on 1 server, everything that is developped is in that light: olympiad, castles, forts, pvp,crafting system...
I'm betting that all these people that don't want a merge play with a 2nd account (to help their grind) and don't care about human interaction/ mass pvp...
If they are considering merging servers they could think of increasing CH's to begin with.
Those that own castle/fortresses are just out of luck. Those are up for battle's anyway so you can't claim those.
So I say double the CH's when 2 servers are merged. Those that transfer will have first rights to those additional CH's on "a first come first serve base".
Ok. I wont copy paste , but basically what I said on the other posts.
Ncsoft tries to make us organise into big clans.Hence the OL nerf , the lvl 10 clans and so on. Add a few chs more . If servers are merged some clans will have to merge themselves with bigger ones. Inactive clans won't have access to chs like they do now , because they bought them in c1 and left for wow leaving a bil in ch wh.
About castles , they are siegeable anyway. Will make really minor difference. Imagine the first Aden siege on the new merged server. All the elite allies from the servers will go for it. Imagine a battle with close a thousand people . Laggy probably , but would be awesome if you ask me.
About castles , they are siegeable anyway. Will make really minor difference. Imagine the first Aden siege on the new merged server. All the elite allies from the servers will go for it. Imagine a battle with close a thousand people . Laggy probably , but would be awesome if you ask me.
Hell ya. Would be amazing. With the new "4% death rule" at sieges, NcSoft has basically killed the castle sieging fun for a lot of the NA servers because we simply don't have the population to have many "major" sieges.
there's a very simple solution to the problem of clanhalls.
that is... instanced clanhalls. or... multi-level clan halls.
think about it. it'd be like an apartment complex within each clanhall. with each story belonging to a different clan. soe takes you to your clanhall.
and if you want other people to be able to get into yourclanhall, you might be able to set up an "allowed" list.
or even failing that, set it in permissions whether or not the doors are open. and people can click on the clan hall gatekeeper outside and click on your clanhall and be ported in. clicking on them from the inside would give them the option of being ported out.
I don't have too big of a problem with the new XP loss on sieges, cause frankly, if the people next to me have such a big problem with XP loss, I really wouldn't consider them reliable in PVP anyways.
This chatter is based on the false assumption that there is some illdefined necessary minimum number of players to make a server viable. This is not true.
Perhaps (most) people playing on the lighter servers LIKE playing on lighter servers and do NOT want to play on a more heavily populated server. Forcing increased server population could make more players unhappy than currently are, so would make the situation worse, not better.
Those who prefer more heavily populated servers have always been able to transfer via rerolling on them. Now we will soon have server transfers for those too lazy to reroll where they want to play.
Those who want more populated servers can go to them. Those who like the lighter servers can stay on them. Server mergers would ruin the societies we have built on our various servers.
Server mergers are a misguided solution to something that is not a problem.
I'm completely with RP on this one. Erica has a lower population, but it has enough people for what you need. I don't want to play on a server that's so crowded you have no place to hunt.
So, having 50vs50(or so) Aden sieges is not a problem? Aden being one of the MOST important castles in the whole of L2. Just go and check the last Sieghardt siege fraps and you'll realise how pathetic it looks. A huge field, used only by a few players. When the field is meant for hundreds and hundreds of players clashing in major battles. Without merges, there's several servers that will not have any real epic battles or competition for castles etc. Low lvl people might be fine with that, but the rest arent. Heck, people are leaving L2 like rats fleeing from a sinking ship and no wonder when it takes them this long to implement something that has been in Korea for ages.
As soon as WAR comes into open phase, I'm out and I play on the most populated server.
Raise your hand if you've seen over 500 at sieges in the last month....
<raises hand>
<watches Charm raise hand> <watches some player from Franz raise hand>
Everyone else? Didnt think so.
If you like playing on light servers, go play a single player RPG as has already been said... this is a (I'll do a grak..) MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER..yadda yadda
It's hard to say which servers and so on before the transfers start.
But once those are on and it clearly shows if some servers population shrank lilke a nut sack with an ice cube on it. Then NCsoft might close that server and offer the remaining players to move to which ever server they prefer, or quit.
Just an idea.
RumPunch I dk what server you playing in , but in Gustin things are horrible. And I think the majority of people left in there(excluding PVE clans only,not even all of them) would love to see a huge increase in server's population for the various reasons as they have been told before.
And about the rerolling thing , I don't think I could have predicted about 1.5 year ago or so that Gustin on 15 / January / 08 would be so dead. And my main concern isn't really toons gear or level itself (thought that is a very hard thing to achive) , but it's the level 7 clan I helped to make , the friends I made , the enemies I love to kill. And I really cant transfer all these with just rerolling.
I could be wrong, but I get the impression that most of those who are happy with the current server population issues are not the 'hardcore' players. It seems like (for the most part...) they fall more in the casual/pve/lower-level categories. And it seems like those that would like to see the transfers are those that are more competition oriented, higher level, pvp-centric. Those of us who have seen the 'glory days' of L2, w/ massive pvp battles at every siege, over raid bosses, over hunting grounds, etc. can't help but to compare the current state of the servers to those days. Someone who was not at a competitive level in C4 and before may not realize what they're missing. And for someone who does not care about pvp, the server might seem great to them!
They're never gonna make anyone happy, but maybe if they do merge servers, they can leave one or two 'light' w/ the option to transfer to them. Or even change one of them into a casual server. People have been asking for that for ages. I would suggest leaving Bartz, Franz and Teon alone as their population seems to be ok. Then, after leaving 1-2 light, they could merge the remaining 5 into one or two larger servers.
Oh and RumPunch, too lazy to reroll? That's ridiculous. I take it you have never leveled legit to 76? You wouldn't say something so stupid if you had. I've put 3+ years of hard work into my characters, if I were to reroll legit, with no gear, no money to help me, by the time I reached a decent level again this game would be dead. Or maybe you're just talking about rerolling unlegit, because that's really the only way anybody does it anymore... (I'm not rerolling, just fyi.)
Rumpunch just doesn't get the premise of the game. He plays to relax and PvE with his friends in his tinny world.
Many other people on the other hand strive to achieve goals that will allow them to PvP, and compete in high lvl content such as: raids, castle sieges, fortress sieges, PvP gank runs...etc.
Alot of the high lvl content sucks. and example would be that UR left bartz because there was no more compatiction(SP?) for them any more, they had at the time achieved everything they could achieve.
Now with all servers except Bartz, Teon, and Frantz remaining on light status 90% of the time, you'd have to wander how good is this game that has 7 out of 10 servers constantly as light status.
If I was a new player and saw that I'd start to ask question. if I was a new player and wasn't ingolfed in the game, I'd quite right then and there. I wouldn't want to waste time or money in something that has no value!
As it stands it takes an average player about 1 year to get to mid 60's if they play often. Hardcore players can get to 76 in only a few weeks (2 months max). with the average players only making to mid 60 in 1 year then you have to wander why would they waste all that time just to reroll. they would rather spend some cash and change servers to be on a more populated server and have their goals for filled.
I can understand the reroll problem... like Mat and Listof have said, legitly leveling a toon equal to the one I have now, it would take a long time... I've already put in the effort honestly, and don't know that I could do it again. Those who love to level alts, they probably don't understand... yet they probably don't have 3rd class noble toons either.
I was just talking to a friend last night, that if they had announced Lionna was going to be made a Euro server (pretty simple... just change the Oly and Siege times, etc.) i bet many would have stayed. There are such simple ways to fix the mass exodus. I'm just sorry it hasn't been done.
Mergers is an open admission that Lin2 has failed or is dying.
Upon seeing that, who would want to sign up for the game?
How many would want to keep investing their time in a grind-intensive game?
As a corporate strategy, it only makes sense as a last-ditch effort to squeeze more revenue from the game, something you do when individual servers are unplayable.
Losing a clan-hall, regardless if fortress or castle is better, would be a nasty slap. My CH cost a lot (~800M) and it's not even the top kind. A general principle of biz: you can only jerk your customer around for a little while before they switch their money to a competitor.
Mergers would prob'ly not save NCNA much money. They've already sunk the cost for the hardware. They wouldn't pay any less for GM support. Minimally their support cost would go down, but they'd still pay the same to translate from Korean to NA.
Instead of merging, if I were NCNA I'd get off the $%^& pot and get server transfers out, as that's by far the best chance they have of getting more revenue from this title. Then wait and see how things work out -- if a server or two are truly empty to the point of being unplayable, offer free transfers to it. Or if the numbers are already low, they could set it up that certain servers are free to transfer to from the get-go.
But keep mergers as a last ditch option, as it represents a big problem for players (losing their in-game clan assets) and it essentially equates to a concession-speech that lin2 failed in NA.
Oh and RumPunch, too lazy to reroll? That's ridiculous. I take it you have never leveled legit to 76? You wouldn't say something so stupid if you had. I've put 3+ years of hard work into my characters, if I were to reroll legit, with no gear, no money to help me, by the time I reached a decent level again this game would be dead. Or maybe you're just talking about rerolling unlegit, because that's really the only way anybody does it anymore... (I'm not rerolling, just fyi.)
I understand why people want a heavier populated server. I like the lighter populations and it's BECAUSE I remember the times when you had to fight over every XP spot.
I can't speak for RP but I'm positive that he is legit and knows the pain more than most about leveling to a very high level... the slow painful 'legit' way.
Mergers is an open admission that Lin2 has failed or is dying.
Upon seeing that, who would want to sign up for the game?
How many would want to keep investing their time in a grind-intensive game?
As a corporate strategy, it only makes sense as a last-ditch effort to squeeze more revenue from the game, something you do when individual servers are unplayable.
Losing a clan-hall, regardless if fortress or castle is better, would be a nasty slap. My CH cost a lot (~800M) and it's not even the top kind. A general principle of biz: you can only jerk your customer around for a little while before they switch their money to a competitor.
Mergers would prob'ly not save NCNA much money. They've already sunk the cost for the hardware. They wouldn't pay any less for GM support. Minimally their support cost would go down, but they'd still pay the same to translate from Korean to NA.
Instead of merging, if I were NCNA I'd get off the $%^& pot and get server transfers out, as that's by far the best chance they have of getting more revenue from this title. Then wait and see how things work out -- if a server or two are truly empty to the point of being unplayable, offer free transfers to it. Or if the numbers are already low, they could set it up that certain servers are free to transfer to from the get-go.
But keep mergers as a last ditch option, as it represents a big problem for players (losing their in-game clan assets) and it essentially equates to a concession-speech that lin2 failed in NA.
Whether you want to admit it or not, the fact is this game is dying, the servers are becoming less popular, and this is a trend that will not ever get better as this game has drastically aged both visually and game play wise. Newer games which have or are going to come out are more visually appealing and more pleasing to the population at the time.
A general strategy of electronic business, its all only date which we can just make more of. There is no reason why a server merge need result in anyone losing a clan hall. All NC would have to do is double the number of clan halls in each town, a fairly easy project given that every town is already full of buidlings which don't do anything already.
From a hardware standpoint, a server merger is superior to a server trasnfer system in the same way that dividend pollicy is meaningless. If players want server mergers, they will simply all transfer from server A to server B, doubling the load on server B while severally reducing the load on server A. In this case they would end up with an inadequate amount of hardware on B while the hardware on A is being wasted. This is of course a more simple example, this becomes more difficult when you have 4 or 5 servers, and you don't know which server is going to act as the merged server. It gets even worse when 1/4 leave from each of servers A thourgh D for E, but no one leaves E, only slightly reducing the congestion on A through D but doubling it on E. And because only 25% of each server left, you can't as easily combine the actual servers which make up the server to service the higher number of customers, resulting in a reduced and very laggy gameplay experience for everyone on E. Had they instead merged servers A and B, C and D, and done I don't know what with E, they could have made the best use of the equipment they had to provide both the elast laggy and most populated experience possible. And the point of the matter is thus that allowing server transfers could severely congest servers if these transfers are used as a way to merge servers without allowing NC to merger hardware which would have happened with a server merger.
You are all wrong about which servers are most populated.
Yes you heard me.
Franz, Bartz and Teon are not even in the top 3.
The most populated servers are in order from most to lesser:
Hinde, Gustin and Lionna.
The light/heavy meters in log in aren't anywhere near correct.
They list toons online. Not real player activity.
But if you look at which servers have most forum activity you can easily detemine where the "real" players are.
So stop fooling your selves with those meters, it's just dsfljhg and friends :)
Everyone transfer to Hinde and Gustin once the option arrives.
Ok this might not be entirely true, but let's pretend atleast, please?
From my experience, the majority of those who whine and complain the most about not having enough people to 'play with'...are the same ones who have done everything possible to *drive off* the players who could (and would) make their server more populated and healthy. (Above and beyond the crap the Developers shovel around.)
By means 'fair and foul' they can take a big heaping of the 'empty server' blame on themselves. Even if we stuffed them all on the same server, they would find ways to drive each other off (probably back to the other servers if not completely away.) just by behaving like they do right now.
NC could do all the 'right things' to get people to start...and it wouldn't matter in the end to these people. Because when new players start, they start at L1! And most of those complainers are higher level...high enough it will take *months* for the lowbies to catch up.
If you want higher population servers...how about helping to re-populate them by creating a game environment that encourages people to play instead of fouling it up royally?
If you want higher population servers...how about helping to re-populate them by creating a game environment that encourages people to play instead of fouling it up royally?
I do believe in what you say. Respecting others is important even online and is unfortunately something that many do not realize. However this has nothing to do with merges. There will always be disrespecful people, but the number of respectful people will (hopefully) always outnumber them. We are all different and must learn to live with others' differences.
Merges are needed to help recreate a game environment with human interaction. This is an MMORPG, and very often doesn't feel like that.
For those that don't want to fight over a spot, learn to go somewhere else - at present there are plenty of empty places to hunt that are still very decent exp/good spoils/drops/quests.
For those that don't want a merge, I'd like to know why they play this game. I started this game because of castle sieges and have learned to enjoy many aspects of it. Unfortunately, lower populated servers don't allow this. Other than 1) free hunting spots and 2) less lag, what other advantages are there not to merge?
From a hardware standpoint, a server merger is superior to a server trasnfer system in the same way that dividend pollicy is meaningless. If players want server mergers, they will simply all transfer from server A to server B, doubling the load on server B while severally reducing the load on server A. In this case they would end up with an inadequate amount of hardware on B while the hardware on A is being wasted. This is of course a more simple example, this becomes more difficult when you have 4 or 5 servers, and you don't know which server is going to act as the merged server. It gets even worse when 1/4 leave from each of servers A thourgh D for E, but no one leaves E, only slightly reducing the congestion on A through D but doubling it on E. And because only 25% of each server left, you can't as easily combine the actual servers which make up the server to service the higher number of customers, resulting in a reduced and very laggy gameplay experience for everyone on E. Had they instead merged servers A and B, C and D, and done I don't know what with E, they could have made the best use of the equipment they had to provide both the elast laggy and most populated experience possible. And the point of the matter is thus that allowing server transfers could severely congest servers if these transfers are used as a way to merge servers without allowing NC to merger hardware which would have happened with a server merger.
And the point of the matter is thus that allowing server transfers could severely congest servers if these transfers are used as a way to merge servers without allowing NC to merger hardware which would have happened with a server merger.
Well its not to say that the hardware or software would go unused.
If they take down 3 servers and let those players merge into 3 other servers with free transfers then you'd have 7 higher population, while freeing up 3 servers and their software for use to another application.
People have been asking for a few years now to have relaxed and no pvp servers.
What would happen if NCsoft took down 3 servers, and made those 3 into relaxed/ pvp only/ no pvp servers. That would make several changes to the game. Like wise I think we need atlest 1 more Euro server.
it would: 1) increase population on 7 servers. 2) would create alternative servers for those wishing to remove them selfs from the people that don't play the way they wish to play. 3) would thin out the over all game. 4) would increase NCsofts revenue by targeting a higher player base. 5) and there is probably more reason I failed to mention...
Ok, here's an idea :
- Leave Teon & Franz as the 2 Euro servers
- Leave Bartz as a US server
- Make Lionna the official RP server
- Merge all the remaining servers into 2 ones : another US one to accompany Bartz, and a relaxed one
:D
ok well everyone's analyses of our current Servers are wrong! just plain wrong!
First of all, lets determine which Servers are worthy of Godliness:
2 servers come to mind when I think of Godliness. Bartz and Lionna. If you look back at 3 years of history, Bartz is by far the most active pvp server however, lionna would be the most organized. How do i know Lionna is most organized? Look at their forum activities... they are the most outspoken and politically active server out there. Call them forum warriors or call them organizers, it is by far the most outspoken community. Second they have a large RP community. Like it or not... it takes organization to hold a massive RP community. Last, keep in mind, Lionna was the first to take down Valakas when heroes didn't exist and level 78 buffs didn't either.
Lionna may not be how it use to be but in its peak days, this server would outsiege any server any day. And I guarantee you, if we ever merge server.... lionna will bring back its best players and leaders just to prove it.
So, there you go. Yes, i said it. Remember, PVP is only 10% of the fight... it is the planning, the politics, the forums and the swaying of hundreds of neutral player's opinion that's the 90% of the rest of the fight....
So, here is a challenge to NCsoft. If the ultimate goal of Lineage 2 is Sieging, Community and ultimately Power then you must somehow allow the most powerful Alliances to prove it, across all servers. Whether it's through server merging or perhaps allowing Alliance Transfers/Temporary Portals so that the most powerful organize players can merge on the battle field then i say you have that obligation to do so.
P.S. I may have overdramatize this post but hey it's just to stir things up, get people mad, increase the competiveness that stirs within and ultimately... ultimately... get NCsoft to finally do something! ;)
So, there you go. Yes, i said it. Remember, PVP is only 10% of the fight... it is the planning, the politics, the forums and the swaying of hundreds of neutral player's opinion that's the 90% of the rest of the fight....
These Official Forums board are not a good venue for that kind of stuff, this is just a place for newbies to learn, question and or rant on L2 developments, for everything else there's Blah.
the problem is sure, there is 200 of them on for sieges, i remember when i could log on and i would find 10-15 war tags easy a night hunting.
No matter when i went hunting.
Yesterday the Dual swords dropped, i had a store in town on my laptop. I logged my alt kamael in cos it was in schuugart and it dropped near there... logged it in on my desktop (had to leave counterstrike!), took it out there, and only saw 1 other person go for the swords.. it took me a good 4 minutes to log in.. thats how dead the server is (sure it was a sleeping hour for euros + americans but still, some are up).
Also there is 336 hours in a fortnight, the server is populated for 6 hours of that on sieges thats about all. I want to see it get populated all the time.
I remember seeing "L2 Doom and Death Prediction" threads before. I saw them in:
2004 They were wrong
2005 They were wrong
2006 They were wrong
2007 They were wrong
2008 They are wrong
LineageII is an Excellent game. It is not for everyone, it is a niche market game.
Becuause it is designed for certain kinds of gamers (more experienced, hardcore, older, persistent, thoughtful....) there are a LOT of people who try it and who decide it is not for them. There is nothing wrong with that at all. However, some people misinterprete that player turnover as implying that the game is in bad shape somehow. That is a misinterpretation. The fact that there is a core of L2 players who have been with the game for years, who play it constantly, and who love it shows that it is a success. I also understand why many people don't fit into the L2 mold and they prefer softer games, like aion or wow or checkers.
Perhaps it would help if I used a couple of examples of 'real world' products with a similar marketing plan.
1) Automobiles/sports cars. Gamers would be like drivers, L2 gamers like those who own high performance sports cars (Jaguars, Corvettes, etc.). The sports car makers don't expect everyone to use their products, most people drive mini-vans or Toyotas and that's OK. It is a special kind of person who drives a Jag. Lots of mini-van drives will wish they had Jags, but they can't afford them or lack the cojones for them and thats OK...the sports car companies are still in business and the sportscar drivers enjoy their Rides. Some people age out of sports cars and drive caddies when they get too old, and that's OK.
2. Drinkers/Single Malt A lot of people drink, most drink wine or beer. A few drink Single Malts. Lots of bud drinkers try an Oban or Glenfiddich and don't like and switch back to bud or coors. That's OK, L2 is like the Single Malt and bud is wow. The Single Malt refineries are healthy even if 1000 more people drink bud and even if 2/3 of the bud drinkers who try Oban never buy a second bottle. A few will delight in the taste, most won't. Many people can't plunk down $125 for a bottle of Scotch so they put down $5 for a six pack, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with Scotch...its a niche product with a niche market and exclusive clientele. Just like Lineage2.
I am looking forward to playing Lineage2 on Erica 17 years from now. Of course, there will still be threads about the "Doom and Death of LineageII' in 2024.
3. like marriage. Some never make it to the alter, others don't last long, while some stick out out forever. I would have added comments about fat, short, beautiful and ugly but I learned and now understand what someone once told me that "in the end the worms will equally feast on us all."
I remember seeing "L2 Doom and Death Prediction" threads before. I saw them in:
2004 They were wrong
2005 They were wrong
2006 They were wrong
2007 They were wrong
2008 They are wrong
LineageII is an Excellent game. It is not for everyone, it is a niche market game.
Becuause it is designed for certain kinds of gamers (more experienced, hardcore, older, persistent, thoughtful....) there are a LOT of people who try it and who decide it is not for them. There is nothing wrong with that at all. However, some people misinterprete that player turnover as implying that the game is in bad shape somehow. That is a misinterpretation. The fact that there is a core of L2 players who have been with the game for years, who play it constantly, and who love it shows that it is a success. I also understand why many people don't fit into the L2 mold and they prefer softer games, like aion or wow or checkers.
Perhaps it would help if I used a couple of examples of 'real world' products with a similar marketing plan.
1) Automobiles/sports cars. Gamers would be like drivers, L2 gamers like those who own high performance sports cars (Jaguars, Corvettes, etc.). The sports car makers don't expect everyone to use their products, most people drive mini-vans or Toyotas and that's OK. It is a special kind of person who drives a Jag. Lots of mini-van drives will wish they had Jags, but they can't afford them or lack the cojones for them and thats OK...the sports car companies are still in business and the sportscar drivers enjoy their Rides. Some people age out of sports cars and drive caddies when they get too old, and that's OK.
2. Drinkers/Single Malt A lot of people drink, most drink wine or beer. A few drink Single Malts. Lots of bud drinkers try an Oban or Glenfiddich and don't like and switch back to bud or coors. That's OK, L2 is like the Single Malt and bud is wow. The Single Malt refineries are healthy even if 1000 more people drink bud and even if 2/3 of the bud drinkers who try Oban never buy a second bottle. A few will delight in the taste, most won't. Many people can't plunk down $125 for a bottle of Scotch so they put down $5 for a six pack, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with Scotch...its a niche product with a niche market and exclusive clientele. Just like Lineage2.
I am looking forward to playing Lineage2 on Erica 17 years from now. Of course, there will still be threads about the "Doom and Death of LineageII' in 2024.
Hmm, ya. I was expecting some kind of post like this. Your logic is all flawed and so are your examples. Analysing a market doesn't work by just picking up any product, talking about it and saying any other product is the same. Sports cars/ Drinks are targeted to individuals and whether an individual buys the car/drink or not, has no effect on others. Sorry but no cigar. As said before, if you wanna play a single-player rpg, go ahead, but don't condemn the rest of us by limiting the people we see/interact with in game :p
On another note, I've also seen these threads over the years and many people have voiced their dissaproval of server merges. However, I have noticed that 2 years ago, most disagreed. Now is not the case, most agree to merges (at least in this thread). Times change people, deal with it and accept the facts.
Actually Rum, they were 100% right in saying L2 is a dead game. It is a dead game because the overall population has never really grown, only shrunk, and this from a population which was never all that big (outside of Korea) to begin with.
When we say dead, we of course mean low population, not zero population, perhaps this is where you became lost.
L2 has never been an excellent game, when it came out the graphics were pretty good, though not the best even then. Now they are just abyssmal by today's standards. The game's point and click game-play itself had been reused many times before this game was released and was reused many times after it was released; L2 added nothing. It wasn't even so much as designed for a certain niche, as it was designed to be a way of life for the average Korean mmo player at the time of its release. Here we could recall the news stories of the real life pking and the man who died from playing too much Lineage (all of which occured in Korea).
Thus the game for Korea was not designed to capture a specific market in America, rather it was translated and sold in the US under the assumption that it would be able to acquire some of the still large uncaptured market share, and result in producing positive profits for the US NCSoft. Since the game had already been designed and needed only to be translated and given ahrdware, the number of accounts needed before NC broke even on their investment was fairly small, which was good because WoW was released a few months later. There wasn't ever any large marketing campaign then or now, because the game was never really targeted at any specific audience, and the lack of popularity amongst those who do try it would make any marketing effort a negative NPV project. There is no point in paying for advertising if the cost of the advertising is greater than the long term revenue garnered it. And unlike many games, L2 didn't last long before it made its way first to the bargain bin, and then simply off of any retail shelves altogether. The true fact is L2 has proven its unpopularity in the states, and its continial and ever worsening population problems (the number of old players [those who play for a year or more] who make up the majority of the population is always slowly falling and the number of new players entering the game decreases continuously, with a very high fail rate amongst new players who do try the game). When you try to say L2 is a good and successful game, you are grasping at straws and shadowy fake truths which do not hold up to the light of the real situation. People playing a gameand people calling it a good game do not make it a success. What makes an MMO, or any product, a success is one which sells well, something which EQ and then WoW did (as well as L2 in North Korea for its first 2 years).
Now as for your examples, Ihave to agree with what was already said, you cannot compare a market for one product with the market for a completely different and incompatible product. The reason why someone buys and uses an mmo is unrelated to the reason why someone buys and uses a car. The consumer might be the same (though I doubt the average L2 player will be able to go out and buy a new Jaguar at the drop of a hat), however the product is not. However if you were going to compare L2 to a car, you might want to try using the Pinto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto) . You only called L2 the more expensive product out of fanboyism, not because it bares any actual resemblance to such a product class.
In my previous post I was thinking about mergers from NCSoft's point of view.
It's like admitting failure. Recent example: how many people went to CompUSA last month before they finally closed?
From players' perspective, it could be okay, to get a bit more play out of the game.
Myself, I don't want to be the last person playing a game. I did meet someone who plays EQ1, even still, after a LOT of merging. It really only takes a few dozen people to make for a mmog.
In my previous post I was thinking about mergers from NCSoft's point of view.
It's like admitting failure.
You are right. But if you had lets say a fast food shop and most customers(like 50%+ ) complained about chicken not being fried enough , wouldn't you let the chicken fry an extra minute to make em happy next time?The minority of your customers might complain the next time that the chicken is too fried , but you would still have a lot more happy faces than sad ones.
Well it might not be that simple , but a poll about it would show( at least thats what I think ) an 60% yes I want merge 40% no I dont want, in the dead servers.
A few people in a thread doesn't translate into the entire population of L2. If you really want more activity so badly, just server transfer when it becomes available.
A few people in a thread doesn't translate into the entire population of L2. If you really want more activity so badly, just server transfer when it becomes available.
Nor does your opinion translate to most that play either. I fail to see your point - we are giving reasons why we think a merge would be good and all u can come up with is that!?!
this isnt a why we think merge is good thread, its a "what if" thread. and if you really want to keep playing and think your server is dead, go to one of the FULL servers if that option ever does become available (i dont see why you take such offense to this suggestion, it wasn't a personal blow against you) and enjoy your lag. as for the "what if merges happened" (assumably out of our control) im sure we would all adapt to the new community the best we can and try to move forward :)
It really only takes a few dozen people to make for a mmog.
Uh....
The very first letter in mmog (or mmorpg) clearly says a few dozen people do not make one.
Unless you consider Unreal Tournament, Counter Strike, etc MMOG?
Multiplayer games are anywhere from 2-4.
Go ten times that and I give you permission to call it massively.
In the case of EQ, you need about 50 or 60 to have a good raiding group.
In WoW you can get by with less than that and have a good raiding group. With cross-server arenas, you need just a couple dozen to fill out your pvp brackets.
Lin2 with its market-based gear ladder and sieges you do need more than for PvE games like EQ and WoW.
It really only takes a few dozen people to make for a mmog.
Uh....
The very first letter in mmog (or mmorpg) clearly says a few dozen people do not make one.
Unless you consider Unreal Tournament, Counter Strike, etc MMOG?
Multiplayer games are anywhere from 2-4.
Go ten times that and I give you permission to call it massively.
In the case of EQ, you need about 50 or 60 to have a good raiding group.
In WoW you can get by with less than that and have a good raiding group. With cross-server arenas, you need just a couple dozen to fill out your pvp brackets.
Lin2 with its market-based gear ladder and sieges you do need more than for PvE games like EQ and WoW.
You've got a extremely weird view of what massive means you know? ;)
Massive dosent imply 50-60. It implies thousands.
Its not about what you NEED to do certain things, its about what what the GAME needs. And a game certainly isnt going to stay running with 50 or 60 players. (The servers alone would cost more upkeep then 50 players paying 14.99 a month)
It really only takes a few dozen people to make for a mmog.
Uh....
The very first letter in mmog (or mmorpg) clearly says a few dozen people do not make one.
Unless you consider Unreal Tournament, Counter Strike, etc MMOG?
Multiplayer games are anywhere from 2-4.
Go ten times that and I give you permission to call it massively.
In the case of EQ, you need about 50 or 60 to have a good raiding group.
In WoW you can get by with less than that and have a good raiding group. With cross-server arenas, you need just a couple dozen to fill out your pvp brackets.
Lin2 with its market-based gear ladder and sieges you do need more than for PvE games like EQ and WoW.
You've got a extremely weird view of what massive means you know? ;)
Massive dosent imply 50-60. It implies thousands.
Its not about what you NEED to do certain things, its about what what the GAME needs. And a game certainly isnt going to stay running with 50 or 60 players. (The servers alone would cost more upkeep then 50 players paying 14.99 a month)
I think lin2 in NA can get by with a very small subscription base (hey, it has since launch), since they don't spend hardly anything on the game with most of the work done by NCSoft-Kr.
"Massively" legitimately can be applied to pretty small groups. When mmogs started, it was a big deal to have 4 players in a LAN party. I've heard MMOG applied to Neverwinter Nights, for example, even tho I never saw more than a few people at a time in it.
With Lin2, the most important parts of the game require large amounts of people.
Character improvement requires a large market of gatherers.
Siege participation is the main focus, requires at least a couple dozen to be fun.
Socializing is the only way to take the grind out of the grind, requires a decent #, too.
So of all mmogs, I think lin2 has pretty high requirements for # of players.
As far as admitting mistakes and stuff, maybe current corporations have it wrong (and sports teams and politicians and everyone else who believe it's bad bizz to admit defeat).
But just a couple recent examples:
Sony (at the CES show last week) didn't even say the word "Playstation 3" in their keynote address.
Toshiba still talks like HD-DVD is the way of the future.
Microsoft, who badly mangled the service pack for Office, still won't admit it was a mistake per se but gives you a place where you can DL replacements your deleted codecs.
Huckabee calls getting ~10% of the vote "winning a bronze medal."
Did even the Dolphins admit they had no hope before the Patriots game?
I'm not even sure how l2 would handle, thousands of players on at a time on one server. Esp seeing that the goal is to get as high as possible as FAST as possible. Do we really want the mob to player ratio to be 1-1? Not that that will never happen XD
I'm not even sure how l2 would handle, thousands of players on at a time on one server. Esp seeing that the goal is to get as high as possible as FAST as possible. Do we really want the mob to player ratio to be 1-1? Not that that will never happen XD
Handles it just fine as the mob's speed up respawn rate.
Most I've ever seen is 10,000+ concurrent connections.
I'm sure you've played the areas, at different points in the game, where there were many more players than mobs. Thats not fun.
But like I said, will never happen anyway, so I'm not gonna worry about 10's of thousands of players on one server.
Agreed, but if you've noticed.. the mob spawn rate largely depends on the number of players.
Ever walk into a area and notice it has few mobs, start hunting, and more mobs pop?
A classic example also is Pavel Ruins. (Near the Lab) The more people, the faster those mobs spawn to the point of being no downtime for 5-6 people even.
Honestly not sure when that was changed. I know for a fact it wasnt like that in Prelude, C1 or C2. Its almost as if under no player conditions it goes into a "light" state around the area, and the more load, the more mobs.
Pavel ruins is very fast, even if there is only person there, and there are also a very large number of mobs in one tiny area. I don't think there is any evidence that mobs spawn any faster with more players, it is simply that Pavel ruins condenses five normal spots into an area of a size usually only given to 1-2 spots.
In my previous post I was thinking about mergers from NCSoft's point of view.
It's like admitting failure. Recent example: how many people went to CompUSA last month before they finally closed?
From players' perspective, it could be okay, to get a bit more play out of the game.
Myself, I don't want to be the last person playing a game. I did meet someone who plays EQ1, even still, after a LOT of merging. It really only takes a few dozen people to make for a mmog.
Whether or nor CompUsa publicly said they were failing made no whit to whether or not they would fail. If they were failing, it was because no one was shopping there, not because their saying no one was shopping there caused no one to shop there. Maintaining their silence wasn't going to solve the problem of too few shoppers shopping there.
In the chicken example, a company maintaining its silence after it knew that it was serving a potentially dangerous product isn't going to save it in the long run. Eventually enough people are going to get sick from it, sue the company and bring to light the information you were trying to hide, making your company seem more negative in the consumers mind (with reduced profits from all the lawsuits)than if you had just openly admitted the problem and showed you were making an effort to fix it.
You have failed to show or make sense of why a company refusing to admit its obvious failures is going to produce a more positive outcome than admitting and fixing the shortcoming.
Pavel ruins is very fast, even if there is only person there, and there are also a very large number of mobs in one tiny area. I don't think there is any evidence that mobs spawn any faster with more players, it is simply that Pavel ruins condenses five normal spots into an area of a size usually only given to 1-2 spots.
I can give more examples if you want ;)
Alot of the "older" area's dont have it, but the majority of new area's do. (Older area's are just being completely phased out as time goes by)
In my previous post I was thinking about mergers from NCSoft's point of view.
It's like admitting failure. Recent example: how many people went to CompUSA last month before they finally closed?
From players' perspective, it could be okay, to get a bit more play out of the game.
Myself, I don't want to be the last person playing a game. I did meet someone who plays EQ1, even still, after a LOT of merging. It really only takes a few dozen people to make for a mmog.
You can't even do an end-game raid in EQ1 with a few dozen people per server, unless all those people are in the same guild. And you need more than that in a guild because everyone doesn't want anyone else to dictate what class they are playing. There is no sub-classing in EverQuest (a bad system all-around, esp for balancing reasons in a PvP game).
If you think end-gamers in EQ are doing "epic" level raids with 2 a couple of Ranger or Mage/Wizard/Necromancer groups then I don't know what to tell you.
M is for massive. L2 is boring because there aren't that many people. This game is supposed to be a political hub (figuratively speaking) where conflicts and resolutions are going on ALL the time. There is not supposed to be more castles and fortresses than factorable clans and alliances on the server. Someone should always end up "wanting" to fuel the in-game political vehicle.
That is just not happening atm. Monopolizing of Epics/Olympiad, server 1-siddedness, and empty conquer clan halls and fortresses pretty much tell that story.
And for those complaining about botters/farmers. If there were alot more people per server farmers would have a much harder time farming, and botters would have a much harder time botting due to the fact that every area on the map would probably get used to a certain extent (wars, other areas full, etc.). I don't think adena farmers would be able to supply much higher populated servers with the amount of cheating that goes on in Lineage II.
And before anyone mentions Teon and Franz on Heavy, think a little ;)
Of course fixing a problem is the best solution.
But in many cases, there's no way to fix your problem.
Huckabee was losing elections. I'm sure if he had any way to get more votes in New Hampshire, he would have (but having grandparents in NH, I think the only way he'd have won was if every other candidate had a beard and/or was from California). So, faced with no way to win, he redefined losing badly to mean getting a bronze medal.
Now at some point, positive spin becomes Polyanna. But regardless, you don't see Wendy's talking about fingers in their chili, nor Sony talking about PS3 sales. Obviously they'd rather have PS3 be as sought-after as Wii. But given slow sales, the standard corporate approach is to change the subject.
I think for NCSoft, staying the current course, and milking their current subscribers for as much as they can (server transfers, identity-washes, and sex-changes for a fee) makes good business sense. Admitting they totally bungled what could have been their flagship product, and have to merge their NA servers despite having only 10 total to begin with... that's like Edwards telling his donators he's really just hanging on hoping for either a good cabinet position, or a regular guest-spot on CNN.