I honestly think the biggest reason why people are going on and on about server merges is that they want to move to a more populated server without having to pay for it.
When i look at the servers only the two Euro servers are heavy, while bartz is the only US server with normal.
All other US servers are always light. Might be better to change some of them to Euro servers aswell and offer US ppl on them to tranfer to the remaining US servers for free.
When i look at it now i think most ppl want to tranfer to bartz or to the Euro servers Teon & Franz only.
because keeping a couple servers with a lower population could appeal to those who would like to play the game with less high levels being [Censored], allowing them to lvl in peace and eventually transfer to a bigger populated server when they are ready to be more socially into the game whether it be pvp, castle/fortress seiges, etc...
I don't think its a money thing. After lets say 3 months? Most of the servers will be completely dead. They would have made enough money from transfers already.
I don't think its a money thing. After lets say 3 months? Most of the servers will be completely dead. They would have made enough money from transfers already.
I can agree with this.
being as it is, people will want to move fast to get out of their hell hole server, and into a much more populated one. The problem is there is only 3 options for that move.
For NCsoft if they sit back wait 3-6 months (1-2 quarters) for people to decided then they'd made money. And they've had the options to see what servers has died to nearly no population at all, and make moves to merge it. or restrict epeple from moving to any server that isn't that one, two, three.
As my server has fallen into slow fading out, I wish to transfer my toons to some server which has bigger population healthy economics and active wars... I mean real wars, not game with only one goal... I can see this server dying, I can't remeber when notable amount of new ppl came last time. Yes, I wish to move to teon or franz (huh, franz seems better choice right now but I'm observing...). If they will force me to move to the server they've chosen for me, I definitely won't that transfer. Why should I go to some even more deserted server? I better stay still where I do now. LOL I'll better start all over again on the server of my choice than I'll move to some empty sever like sieghardt. Is there anybody? LOL.
indeed, in a PvP game, it seems a logical thing to do would be to reset everything (when appropriate) and let us fight from scratch to shake things up. server merges could do this, easily.
if they did we all know which certain players would be the first ones on there running their little parties and would soon enough own the server with their 9 accounts and 7x players everywhere. it would be pointless, but nevertheless would shake everythign up totally.
What happens to clanhall/fort/castle owners, heros, when servers were to be merged?
Man what a tool!!
Forts, Castles and Heroes are fought over, if you need to cry about them, you're in the wrong game to begin with.
I don't think i could say it better.
Castles where at one point NPC controlled (still is if you play PTS). Fortresses are fought over all the time on bartz, very healthy fight to control a fortress. If you can't successfully hold a fortress then you shouldn't have one.
In fact if they merged servers, theres no need to NPC fortresses considering they can be fought over every 6 hours.
clan halls might be a issue, but imo refund half the money a clan put into a hall, and put them all on auction.
castle should go to NPC, fight for them the next time you can siege. tadahhh all the issues are resolved!
now come again on a excuse why getting more people into a single server is a bad thing?
how would the identical names work, there are other players with same names on different servers, if they were to be merged then how would that be dealt with? i cant imagine nc asking every individual with an already taken name what they would want their new name to be
actually yes as that's just a script that will check which name is the oldest registered and the other will have to rename him/herself, it's like the below..
-The server has been integrated, and your Clan name, $s1, has been overlapped with another name. Please enter the Clan name to be changed.
-The server has been integrated, and your character, $s1, has been overlapped with another name. Please enter a new name for your character
-This account was converted into an integrated account and as a result may not access Lineage II.\nPlease try again with the integrated account.
actually yes as that's just a script that will check which name is the oldest registered and the other will have to rename him/herself, it's like the below..
-The server has been integrated, and your Clan name, $s1, has been overlapped with another name. Please enter the Clan name to be changed.
-The server has been integrated, and your character, $s1, has been overlapped with another name. Please enter a new name for your character
-This account was converted into an integrated account and as a result may not access Lineage II.\nPlease try again with the integrated account.
I would quit L2 if I was not only forced to change server, but also change name/clan name and I bet many would do the same.
ppl, give NC a break plz.
let them implement transfers first, after 3-4 more years, 8 more chronicles, release of Aion and LineageII, and maybe then, they ll start thinking about whats better or worse.
after all, we re a community that doesnt matter. Asian L2 communities are much more important and they should enjoy the luxuries that we never will.
maybe the koreans can open some international servers to which we could transfer too, the ping isn't going to be worse for the non NA players who are still remaining on the pre Teon servers.. haha as if but wouldn't that be fun o0
Why does everyone who opposes it act like server mergers are the same as server transfers? It's not! Server transfers cause you to leave your whole community behind, lots of friends, etc. Server mergers keep all that intact and just introduce a whole new community. IMO it wouldn't take any time at all before the two were blended into one community.
Everyone who opposes it seems to be looking on the negative, negative, negative. Those of us who are for it aren't blind to those issues, but still believe that the game needs mergers.
IMO, buyable clan halls will be the biggest obstacle. Even refunding a clan's money will not be enough, because many clans pay the original holder over and above what the auctioneer accepts. By doubling the amount of clan halls in each town (and letting clan-hall holding clans each have a hall in their original town), they could fix this. Would they do that? I don't know. But I'm not going to shoot down the whole idea just because I don't know!
The other major problem is clan names and character names. I'm all for a formula that takes both character creation date and level into account. That way somebody's level 10 from C1 doesn't get to keep a name that a noble has on another server. And w/ the name changes they are getting ready to introduce, they will probably already have a system in place to show your original name. I've also heard many suggestions from other players as to how this could be handled well.
Also, if in the future, NCsoft does introduce server mergers, they will already have had server transfers in place. So if you still want to transfer to another server, then you can.
Then why not reset everyone's level to 1 as well? And wipe all the money. "To shake things up".
You have to remeber your private servers past. When one day its admin posted on forums - "yeah, boys and girls, it's time to make everyone equal" - and wipes all the database in few moments. You definitely can remeber what protest and indignation it can make... Do you want advise that scenario? Do you want kill lineage2 at NA/EU? Do you...?
Surely, let's penalize those clans who rerolled on better servers years ahead of you, and who actually drives them to be better.
What criteria do you use to determine what servers are 1st grade, what servers are 2nd grade etc? Yeah, there is no such criteria and you cannot make one which conforms a HUGE number of questions? :D
Then why not reset everyone's level to 1 as well? And wipe all the money. "To shake things up".
You have to remeber your private servers past. When one day its admin posted on forums - "yeah, boys and girls, it's time to make everyone equal" - and wipes all the database in few moments. You definitely can remeber what protest and indignation it can make... Do you want advise that scenario? Do you want kill lineage2 at NA/EU? Do you...?
He was being sarcastic. As if having to actually compete for fortresses and castles is tantamount to wiping the servers. It's not.
Then why not reset everyone's level to 1 as well? And wipe all the money. "To shake things up".
You have to remeber your private servers past. When one day its admin posted on forums - "yeah, boys and girls, it's time to make everyone equal" - and wipes all the database in few moments. You definitely can remeber what protest and indignation it can make... Do you want advise that scenario? Do you want kill lineage2 at NA/EU? Do you...?
He was being sarcastic. As if having to actually compete for fortresses and castles is tantamount to wiping the servers. It's not.
I know that but I cant browse though such ridiculous things.
or they could just add lastnames.
I can imagine some bounty hunter with complete name of iufuihaf fjdsjkhf. :)
Server transfers will move many live players to more populated servers. Farmers move into the emptier servers and farm raid/epic bosses and then transfer a full warehouse to another server. Looks like an easy button.
Server transfers will move many live players to more populated servers. Farmers move into the emptier servers and farm raid/epic bosses and then transfer a full warehouse to another server. Looks like an easy button.
Which is exactly why there will be limitations on what you can transfer. thats what everyone's been talking about.
hmm someone from Gustin (extremely dead @ the moment) against this idea? wow
Wow and how do you detect that Gustin is dead???
First off, do YOU actually play this game? Do you raid epic bosses with your alliance, whatever it is? Do you siege every castle you want? Do you WAR the top alliances that dominate the server?
No you DON'T.
So, what on earth makes you think that it will be any better if Gustin gets merged with Hindemith or something else?
Guess what, since you can't stand your ground on the current Gustin, it will be much worse for YOU personally should the merge happen. You will be griefed out of your xp spots, your ally mates will begin to whine about getting pked for no reason any time they leave town, or about not being able to xp/raid/siege at all, etc...
what will you say then?
You think the more players the merrier? Ok let me come to your xp spot and see how fun it will be for both of us to share the same mobs. :p
Or maybe you are unhappy about the latest sieges when the top castles are controlled by a clique of the top alliances that hold each other's hand to make sure they outgun everyone else 10:1? Ok. Now, let's imagine Gustin will merge with Teon:
With Gustin's predominating mentality, it will be only a matter of a few days (1-2 weeks tops) before the aforementioned "top dogs of Gustin" find a way to fasten onto the "Teon's big guys" to hold hands and camp their siege grounds with a united 1000-players zerg, like they did it with their 100-player zergs on Gustin.
In the end, it will be as boring as before, just with more players, more lag, and more smacktalking in hero chat.
Merges will NOT help change the current situation, if players' mentality does not change.
Server transfers will NOT help increase the total population of NA servers until NCNA invests some money in advertisement and proper promotion of the game all over the world.
Let's start with transfers first. If contraction becomes necessary, then so be it. But let player migration determine that. Forcing server mergers first would not be the best course of action at this time...unless server transfers were also possible. I mean what happens after the merge and you find that you still don't like the server that you're on?
I've always been against mergers but I can sign on to the concept I suppose.
I propose we merge France and Teon with a new "server x" to put all the Euros together and give them more space and keep their 10k bot accounts off the other servers (after all--having Heavy servers is the goal, right?). We'll call the new Euro server "surrenderers".
Then, we eliminate Bartz altogether and make all of them plus 2 other servers move on one day to, oh, idk, how about Gustin? That puts 4 into one new server (6 assimilated so far for those counting) which we will call "byebyebartz".
Finally, lionna, seig, etc. get tossed 4 into one into a 3rd new server we'll call "good guys".(though i'm not biased in any way)
In the end, we go from 10 servers to 3 and EVERY single subscriber gets uprooted and bounced and NO current server remains.
We'd have all players on 3 servers, we'd have everyone uprooted equally, we'd have all euro's together. Ta-da.
Server mergers. Everyone suddenly tossed in on top of one another and chaos for every subscriber. Sounds like fun.
As for the oft-opined suggestion here from some players who are REALLY saying "collapse OTHER people's server into MY current server...."
No.
If one subscriber has their world erased then all should wake up to a new world tomorrow.
Under those conditions I have less issues with mergers.
It's unfair to have any conversation about collapsing some servers while pretending that Bartz, Teon, and Franz players would remain unchanged.
As for similar names (players/clans/etc.)? Oldest logged name keeps theirs and others all change. Castles all become abandoned on day-X. Clan halls all empty on the 3 new servers on day-X (not like you aren't just going to ebay the funds again to buy it the 2nd time anyway).
All heroes erased.
That's what is being advocated right? As long as no current server survives intact while others are eliminated (merged) then I see less of an issue.
And finally, to make sure this new 'mandated balance' REMAINS equal, the ability to have toons on more than 1 server needs to be eliminated so we don't have to 'rebalance' again a year down the road.
Why does everyone who opposes it act like server mergers are the same as server transfers?
Not me, obviously. Though, I oppose server transfers too.
It's not! Server transfers cause you to leave your whole community behind, lots of friends, etc.
Indeed. While server merges cause a big part of community to leave for better games or even for RL. Which is not a bad thing per se, but hardly what you have expected.
IMO, buyable clan halls will be the biggest obstacle.
My biggest worry are illegitly earned "tops" of those dead servers. In not the smallest part the ones who killed their servers. Do you think they will compete? They think they will. I think they will try, but then just merge their forces into a next "top". On the next server to be dead.
Server transfers will NOT help increase the total population of NA servers until NCNA invests some money in advertisement and proper promotion of the game all over the world.
Advertising can only do so much. Many new players get run off by the number of automatons and soon by the increased level gap just to be able to pvp competitively. What will you do if you pick up a new game and you need about 1 year of no life to be somewhat effective bersus 1 month somewhere else? L2 is beautiful but if the other game improves their graphics then you'll see a big exodus. I'll stick with L2 because there are many things I enjoy about it.
Server transfers can also be good for the low pop servers. I'm sure some clans/alliances in heavy servers that are underdogs there could transfer to low pop server and become top dogs.
Then why not reset everyone's level to 1 as well? And wipe all the money. "To shake things up".
You have to remeber your private servers past. When one day its admin posted on forums - "yeah, boys and girls, it's time to make everyone equal" - and wipes all the database in few moments. You definitely can remeber what protest and indignation it can make... Do you want advise that scenario? Do you want kill lineage2 at NA/EU? Do you...?
Not me. Those who propose "to shake things up".
Surely, let's penalize those clans who rerolled on better servers years ahead of you, and who actually drives them to be better.
What criteria do you use to determine what servers are 1st grade, what servers are 2nd grade etc?
Not me. Those who reroll, those who want server transfers, those who want server merges.
hmm someone from Gustin (extremely dead @ the moment) against this idea? wow
Merges will NOT help change the current situation, if players' mentality does not change.
Server transfers will NOT help increase the total population of NA servers until NCNA invests some money in advertisement and proper promotion of the game all over the world.
End of the argument.
your dumb it will bc servers that had clan wars will then work togeather dont cry
Personally I dont agree with server merger concept. But we are faced with the fact that some servers are deserted, others are dying and some others are trying to keep its population. NC needs a method to fill servers with players. I don't know wht they don't advertise their prodicts... but they need something to do with server population. it's very different from server to server. and this is the problem. personally I don't see any ways to reslove it without mergers within NC's current politics... So, one day we well have server merger to gather one filled server from 2-3 deserts. The question is not about appropriateness, but it's about timeliness.
IMO server transfer have best chance of occurring because its a paid service. Server merges will not occur because it is not a service and will take a lot more work and money on NCsofts side. Server Merges will only occur when subscription sales are less than total server maintenance costs, total server bandwidth costs, and total NCNA staff costs.
Castles where at one point NPC controlled (still is if you play PTS). Fortresses are fought over all the time on bartz, very healthy fight to control a fortress. If you can't successfully hold a fortress then you shouldn't have one.
I totaly agree if they were to do mergers all castles and fortresses would have to revert to NPC control. Then everyone could fight for them.
clan halls might be a issue, but imo refund half the money a clan put into a hall, and put them all on auction.
Here I disagree, all Ch would have to be cleared and go up for auction again. Every clan that looses a clan hall because of the merger should be refunded the amount they paid for the Clan Hall. I for one know our clan paid max bid for the clan hall we have in rune. We definatley don't have that right now and wouldn't even with half the adena back.
now come again on a excuse why getting more people into a single server is a bad thing?
Because it gives the players and future players the impression the game is dead or dying. Besided the fact that many people will quit just because of the merger.
For some people mergers sound great for others it is a sign of death to a game. I personaly think they are on the right track with transfers. If enough people leave a given server that it is basically unplayable they could transfer the rest and close it, but doing this in the beginning would be a mistake.
Quote:
now come again on a excuse why getting more people into a single server is a bad thing?
Because it gives the players and future players the impression the game is dead or dying. Besides the fact that many people will quit just because of the merger.
For some people mergers sound great for others it is a sign of death to a game. I personally think they are on the right track with transfers. If enough people leave a given server that it is basically unplayable they could transfer the rest and close it, but doing this in the beginning would be a mistake.
you must of missed my other post I made about this.
As I said: A merger is needed at this point, the game is nearly 4 years old, which for a game is old.
NCsoft needs to get out transfers, then after they wait atlest 1 to 2 quarters; they we'll have a few servers whose population has declined so much it would be more cost effective for them to shut it down. Merge the remaining players to a lesser populated server (also allow them to choose).
Then at their leisure they can use that server for a alternative type server, which would bring more players into L2, and seemly shut down the need for higher rate servers (private servers).
For instance: if NCsoft has 'transfers' up next month (Feb.) they can wait it out till the 3rd quarter and figure which servers has declined to an point where in the long term it would be more cost effective to have 6 U.S. servers, 2 Euro, then to run 8 U.S., and 2 Euro. It's currently 10 servers NCsoft runs for NA branch. Of those servers 2 of them are held over sea's in Germany at one of their offices there. Which means 8 of the rest of them are in North America. :)
So don't you think for them as a company it would benefit them to Merge 2-4 servers that have declined in population to the point where keeping them open cost them more then they make on this single game (this game, not the whole company).
Get rid of all the servers and just have one huge one.... Now that would create some real LAG ;)
fixed.
also replacable with: Confusion, anger, lost accounts, etc.
you're probably kidding :p but lines must be drawn
Yeah I was kidding, I'm just riding the wave... going where ever NC take me, if they decide to change something within the game thats their choice I wont complain but just ride it out :)
Other than the Euro servers, where are the NA servers located? Cause if they do Server Merges, its not going to be based off the servers, it will be based off Location of the servers, this is one huge thing a lot of people leave out.
I still see no point in Server Merges. Transfers are fine, but Merges to me causes more problems, and headaches than good. NCSoft needs to open up server transferring, and servers with significantly larger populations need to be allocated more resources, and also need to be allocated far more customer service that lower pop servers. I know Gustin is pretty low pop compared to some other servers, but I have no intention or desire to be forced onto another server, I would rather be given the choice then be forced into it, but if others feel the need to leave for another server, all the power to them.
There have been lots of good points made about how server mergers is a stupid idea. The advocates of mergers have made up some random 'minimum number of people needed for a good server' and allege that this isn't met. To put it plainly, that is bunk. If people are having fun on the current servers, forcing them to move is crazy and will make total L2 subscriptions go down, not up.
But over the weekend I wondered...I play on a 'light' server, does that mean that there is not this alleged 'minimum players needed'? So I did a few tests/observations just to be sure that my opinions were valid. Here is what I found:
Economic Indicators:
- Manor fruits turned in within 1/2 a second of manor reset, implies high level of activity
- active market for base mats and high demand key mats such as A/S weapon parts and recipes, fair market for 'occasional craft' mats like Rind Leather and Plated Leather
- Giran full of shops, Dion full of shops, more shops in Aden, Rune and Goddard than six months ago, implies high level of activity
- An (unfortunate) high number of spams for activities that are against the EULA. If there wasn't a large base of potential customers for these lame businesses, they would go out of business for lack of profits.
Political/Military Indicators:
- Did the Cabrio/ToI bosses twice with large groups, interrupted by PvP action more than once
- I noticed after the raids that my raid ranking kept dropping which implies that others were raiding that I didn't know about
- Castle Sieges, virtually all were contested to the point where the issue was in doubt
- Observed clan war PvPs in various hunting grounds
- Consistent level of 'trash talk' yelling
Player Density Indicators:
- lvl 60-70 areas, checked ToI 12, Ketras, FotD, WoA, Blazing Swamp and all were populated
- lvl 60 areas, Beast Farm and Seal of Shillien both had so many players it was hard to hunt at times
- Lower areas, various necros, FoM, EG, gator Isle, FP all had players hunting though open hunt spots were available
- Heard a number of LFP, LFR calls in Dion and Giran
- Observed hunting near Gludin, in OB, LankLizard, AC and around Floran...in every place I visited in fact. It wasn't crowded but ppl were there.
Note that in NONE of these comments am I considering bots as players.
So I can only speak for Erica. While I believe that the 'we need more players for a valid minimum' argument is nutty, even if it were true I am convinced that such a need is NOT present. My 'light' server is healthy indeed.
I suspect that the 'server merge' chatter is generated by a VERY small group who don't want to pay for transfers.
I'm not wanting to start a flamefest here because that's not my style, but you two are talking about a server you do not play on. I do play there... Erica is not empty. It has a thriving population. It may be lower than your servers, I don't know because I don't play there I have no concept of how many are there.
I'm not wanting to start a flamefest here because that's not my style, but you two are talking about a server you do not play on. I do play there... Erica is not empty. It has a thriving population. It may be lower than your servers, I don't know because I don't play there I have no concept of how many are there.
But maybe you just want to argue?
its been my experience that those two just like to argue.
Its been my experience you post pure and utter crap for post count.
oooo, me too, me too (sometimes),
but honestly. I keep hearing that Lionna is "dead" but I find that hard to beleive considering that I can find a PvP fight almost anytime I want and that I saw a fort get sieged nightly last week, and there was actual people fighting to both take it and defned it every night. But then again, the people calling it dead are the ones in the major allies that "uberfied" themselves and stomp out any competition as soon as it thinks of showing itself. Lionna isnt a "dead" server, yet people try to make you believe it.
I'm not wanting to start a flamefest here because that's not my style, but you two are talking about a server you do not play on. I do play there... Erica is not empty. It has a thriving population. It may be lower than your servers, I don't know because I don't play there I have no concept of how many are there.
But maybe you just want to argue?
You know, you can log on every server there is. Not really that hard to check the market areas or the most popular spots. Takes just some time to run around and avoid the aggro mobs.
Also, I think our concept of "thriving" differs greatly, since I dont really see how a server can have a thriving population with such a low number of people on it.
well charmille, as an example, my "dead" server just saw 4 NEW players to the game join us since the first of the month. just now, 2 of those 4 have graduated academy and have begun to enjoy life 40+
our clan has seen the comeback of one former member who quit months ago but willing to give the Kamael a chance.
clans that "recruit nobles" ore limit to A only rarely see new faces. rarely even accept the new faces cause an untagged fully geared A grader will no sooner leave a clan than be called a bot/hax/ebayer
this is why end game in ANY server (i dare say ALL servers) is dead. you belong to your clan and changing clans better mean changing wartag sides cause apart from that, a new face "watching" oly games gets called every name in the book before becoming part of the picture.
well charmille, as an example, my "dead" server just saw 4 NEW players to the game join us since the first of the month. just now, 2 of those 4 have graduated academy and have begun to enjoy life 40+
I'm sure those 2 that have graduated will provide greatly when it comes to taking a Fortress, Castle, or Contested Clan Hall.
You know, what this game is advertised as? I'm also sure they will be a tremendous help in your clan wars... oh wait... LOL.
When looking at the "health" of a server, you dont start at level 20's or 40's. You look at the higher end. Are your higher end players on Lionna leaving? Yes, yes they are. (About 40 have left for Bartz over the past two months)
You then analyze why they are leaving. Hell, you lost almost a entire alliance when Franz opened up. Why? If things are so "great" on Lionna, people would stay... woudnt they?
I know your going to counter with... "But I dont want to be high level! I dont want to compete, I like my little non factor life!!!" .. dont worry, we'll open up a server especially for you. I'm sure we can cap the level at 52, that way you'll actually hit end game in a few years.
well charmille, as an example, my "dead" server just saw 4 NEW players to the game join us since the first of the month. just now, 2 of those 4 have graduated academy and have begun to enjoy life 40+
New players usually quit at around 49-55. I think I've seen hmmmm, 40 go that way in a few months. They cant take the leveling curve of L2. It's a real pain in the [censored] to clean royal guards and academy all the time because all these newcomers quit. Easier to recruit ppl who have been in the game for a while, they usually will stay too.
When looking at the "health" of a server, you dont start at level 20's or 40's. You look at the higher end. Are your higher end players on Lionna leaving? Yes, yes they are. (About 40 have left for Bartz over the past two months)
/FAIL
Lower level population is CRITICAL when considering server health. Unless you consider fully equipped A and S grade players auto-magically appearing from the ether normal.
A healthy D/C/B grade playerbase indicates that you have a good number of people starting and leveling...if all you have is A/S, then your server is declining as more people are leaving through attrition than there are new players joining to replace them.
This is true in real life as well as in game. Which is why 'nations' worry about such things as birth rate and 'aging populations'.
Lower level population is CRITICAL when considering server health. Unless you consider fully equipped A and S grade players auto-magically appearing from the ether normal.
A healthy D/C/B grade playerbase indicates that you have a good number of people starting and leveling...if all you have is A/S, then your server is declining as more people are leaving through attrition than there are new players joining to replace them.
This is true in real life as well as in game. Which is why 'nations' worry about such things as birth rate and 'aging populations'.
If only that was true in Lineage 2.
Thats true in every MMO *EXCEPT* lineage 2.
Why? Because of how hardcore it is. Tell me in a year how many of those 40's are still playing. I'd bet only 1 or 2 out of 30.
Seen it time and again, as Charm said, having to clear out the Academy every month from new players who've quit.. most of which we've fully equiped in top D to even try to help.
Well, the "higher ups" on Lionna are leaving because there is no longer anyone to oppose them. If some one came up as a possible threat the over geared and over lvld big alliance snuffs them out. So they are all going to a different server where they think they wont have that problem.
The high end of the server isnt dead. The "neutrals" of the server are decently active, and I know of a bunch of wars between them involving clans with plenty of S grade wearing toons.
Don't make the mistake of judging the entire high end health of the server by the people who are leaving because they are bored with the situation they created.
Well, the "higher ups" on Lionna are leaving because there is no longer anyone to oppose them. If some one came up as a possible threat the over geared and over lvld big alliance snuffs them out. So they are all going to a different server where they think they wont have that problem.
Its the nature of L2.
Its not just the top dog that is leaving either, its opposition is leaving too. (Or have you not noticed a few characters getting into the top alliance, that were once its enemies? Why? Their guild left...)
Players swap guilds far more then one would think (nobles that is), and for the most part its a good thing. New clans form from the ashes of the old, whatever.
The amount of purely new players you see is very rare to actually hit the end game though, we all know that. Or we should at least.
RumPunch you must be lucky to play at such a server. Wanna create a toon to see how is the situation in Gustin ? I will gladly cover your porting expenses.
I ll just copy your list with a few changes who I think is valid for Gustin.
Manor. I haven't manored for ages , but 3 days ago (notice Sunday) I found out I have some seeds I had to turn ( the ones for CBP/animal bone ) I did turn them easily at best price town after 22 minutes of the manor reset.
Giran full of shops , Dion well there exist some for D weapons , Aden-Rune-Goddard like 3 shops top each town selling brezes mostly.
Spam from adena sellers as usual. More at peak time , less at evenings. Cant really say if they are more or less , but they do exist.
Market is not doing. More wts shouts than wtb ones is bad in my opinion.
Did barakiel after 6 days of shouting around and 75% of those killed it were in my flist. I see a guy asking for toi bosses for more than 10 days in hero shout.
Last castle sieges were boring you can check Gustin's threads for that.
Everyday ganking as usual. One big fight last night , which hasn't happened for a very long time my guess.
24/7 trash talk in hero shout , but heroes are 29 people playing all day. Nothing special to mention imho.
I am leaving bots out. Every spot I mention has them.
Toi 10th is dead , Varka has a very few people exping for manes , Ketra a rarely see a destro solo there , BS noone in lower spots sometimes I see nukers at the upper ones , in woa I see a tank doing aoe on banders other than that the usual ijjuu fellows , Fotd most players I saw last month was 5 all over it .
Martyrs I have been lately , I only see the same 3 people come for exp for 2 hours or so.
Less than older LFP/LFR shouts in Dion. Must have been a long time since I saw something like that in Giran as well.
So my guess we are a VERY small group of people left in Gustin , but we are more wanting to have server merges. And seriously people ebay for thousand dollars. Do you think they would care for 15-20 for a transfer?
well charmille, as an example, my "dead" server just saw 4 NEW players to the game join us since the first of the month. just now, 2 of those 4 have graduated academy and have begun to enjoy life 40+
I'm sure those 2 that have graduated will provide greatly when it comes to taking a Fortress, Castle, or Contested Clan Hall.
You know, what this game is advertised as? I'm also sure they will be a tremendous help in your clan wars... oh wait... LOL.
When looking at the "health" of a server, you dont start at level 20's or 40's. You look at the higher end. Are your higher end players on Lionna leaving? Yes, yes they are. (About 40 have left for Bartz over the past two months)
You then analyze why they are leaving. Hell, you lost almost a entire alliance when Franz opened up. Why? If things are so "great" on Lionna, people would stay... woudnt they?
I know your going to counter with... "But I dont want to be high level! I dont want to compete, I like my little non factor life!!!" .. dont worry, we'll open up a server especially for you. I'm sure we can cap the level at 52, that way you'll actually hit end game in a few years.
actually no. the new players we got Wont (with a capital W) help getting a fortress ch or castle. for two reasons;
the clan we are in is unable to compete for castles. weve been wiped, several times in fact. being a mostly casual clan we dont see many hit 66+ let alone 76 or sub-class. our eventual goal though, is to get to that point. and we will eventually. but i still dont see the benefit of a castle or ch or fortress. it would be too much hassle over a handful of buffs and elixer recipes that are otherwise unnecessary.
second reason is simply the new toons weve got arent particularly strong classes. their gear is on loan too.
our clan is doing just fine. a handful of others on lionna are too. those not doing so good are not doing so good for the reasons i listed in my previous post. the pigs are uncontested now, and thats the way its gonna stay. all those players that left lionna for bartz are making bartz feel alive again but i warrant not for long. they make a few clans feel good for a while before the same problems occur yet again.
Well, the "higher ups" on Lionna are leaving because there is no longer anyone to oppose them. If some one came up as a possible threat the over geared and over lvld big alliance snuffs them out. So they are all going to a different server where they think they wont have that problem.
Its the nature of L2.
Its not just the top dog that is leaving either, its opposition is leaving too. (Or have you not noticed a few characters getting into the top alliance, that were once its enemies? Why? Their guild left...)
Players swap guilds far more then one would think (nobles that is), and for the most part its a good thing. New clans form from the ashes of the old, whatever.
The amount of purely new players you see is very rare to actually hit the end game though, we all know that. Or we should at least.
Well, most of the original opposition left long, long, long ago, so it has been going down hill ever since for the "non-neutrals". The "new" oposition really isnt. No one is stupid enough to start fighting them because they know they will be out geared, out lvld, and out "other things that violate Eula" (not everyone, but I know plenty).
As I said, they created their own situation though and killed their own fun without thinking of what they would do when they were done slaughtering everyone.
There are alot more people on that server than just the main alliances and they have their own squabbles and the server is very much alive and kicking for them.
There are alot more people on that server than just the main alliances and they have their own squabbles and the server is very much alive and kicking for them.
I could say that 50 people would make a server "alive and kicking" but in reality, thats not the truth.
Remember, this is a company we are talking about here. They wont keep servers around when only a handful are on it and having fun.
You can all hazard a guess how this is gonna go...
Transfers... 2-4 servers go below "light" to "none" (heh)..
Those servers all get merged into one a year later, with a huge outcry from the 20-30 casual players who love not having anyone better then them playing. Outcry is ignored, merges happen anyway for simple financial reasons.
There are alot more people on that server than just the main alliances and they have their own squabbles and the server is very much alive and kicking for them.
I could say that 50 people would make a server "alive and kicking" but in reality, thats not the truth.
Remember, this is a company we are talking about here. They wont keep servers around when only a handful are on it and having fun.
You can all hazard a guess how this is gonna go...
Transfers... 2-4 servers go below "light" to "none" (heh)..
Those servers all get merged into one a year later, with a huge outcry from the 20-30 casual players who love not having anyone better then them playing. Outcry is ignored, merges happen anyway for simple financial reasons.
/The End.
heh, still fail.
all those light servers would indeed be merged - into the big servers.
and suddenly hey theres all those old players that i used to war. **** i thought i was done with them. /quit.
and suddenly hey theres all those old players that i used to war. **** i thought i was done with them. /quit.
You'd still keep a account active just to post, since without this board you dont have a life ;P
You all know its coming... so complain (bitterly!), moan (loudly!), and cry about how its all unfair to you, then /quit and head over to a game more suited to a casual playstyle. Odds are I might be with you! (If its warhammer heh)
I could say that 50 people would make a server "alive and kicking" but in reality, thats not the truth.
Remember, this is a company we are talking about here. They wont keep servers around when only a handful are on it and having fun.
You can all hazard a guess how this is gonna go...
Transfers... 2-4 servers go below "light" to "none" (heh)..
Those servers all get merged into one a year later, with a huge outcry from the 20-30 casual players who love not having anyone better then them playing. Outcry is ignored, merges happen anyway for simple financial reasons.
/The End.
You seriously underestimate the numbers of people who arent in the major alliances. if there are only 50-60 people not in major alliances then yes the servers should be merged. But that isnt the case. There are several hundred people on lionna ACTIVELY playing that are not in major alliances, if not a thousand or so.
As you said this IS a company, the majority of its subscribers are NOT in a major alliance on any server. And as long as the MAJORITY of their subscribers are having fun with the current situation, then they will allow those that arent to have paid transfers and the rest of us can go about our game, continuing to have fun. Personally, I believe the "major" alliances leaving lionna will be the best thing that could possibly happen, but thats just me.
no, see cause i play the game from home on weekends and post from work where i usually have 2 hrs of work and 10 hrs of slack. if i did have an active account i would still play, ffs. i troll more than 3 other non-l2 boards during my 10 hr slackage.
You seriously underestimate the numbers of people who arent in the major alliances. if there are only 50-60 people not in major alliances then yes the servers should be merged. But that isnt the case. There are several hundred people on lionna ACTIVELY playing that are not in major alliances, if not a thousand or so.
Take a guess how many sub's it takes to actively support a server money wise.
These arent little xion servers we are talking about here, nor are they running on brighthouse buisness connections.
If the "majority" on a server are less then 500 or even a thousand, kiss that server goodbye.
Your only saving grace will be farmers, since they vastly outnumber players. Prop the server up with their numbers, and you may stand a chance at survival.
The server will live on and do just fine long after the "ubers" leave it. They arent necessary. And chances are half the "farmers" will leave with them, since I know of quite a few that run and maintain our little friends on Lionna. Its really fun to see who shows up to defend them when they get trained repeatedly.
The server will live on and do just fine long after the "ubers" leave it. They arent necessary. And chances are half the "farmers" will leave with them, since I know of quite a few that run and maintain our little friends on Lionna. Its really fun to see who shows up to defend them when they get trained repeatedly.
Yeah but your not considering all the factors.
Ubers will *still* be on the light servers, simply because they can control them.
Especially if they are allowed to transfer stuff off. How hard would it be to xfer over 20-40 baium rings and sell them for RL cash every year? Add that onto all the other boss jewels, and a whole clan could virtually live off the income made.
You dont think Farmers arent thinking about that either? Talk to some of them. Not all are deluded, some know transfers are coming and are working hard on these "light" servers to gather up enough wealth that they can then xfer over to a server that has high demand.
The server will live on and do just fine long after the "ubers" leave it. They arent necessary. And chances are half the "farmers" will leave with them, since I know of quite a few that run and maintain our little friends on Lionna. Its really fun to see who shows up to defend them when they get trained repeatedly.
Yeah but your not considering all the factors.
Ubers will *still* be on the light servers, simply because they can control them.
Especially if they are allowed to transfer stuff off. How hard would it be to xfer over 20-40 baium rings and sell them for RL cash every year? Add that onto all the other boss jewels, and a whole clan could virtually live off the income made.
You dont think Farmers arent thinking about that either? Talk to some of them. Not all are deluded, some know transfers are coming and are working hard on these "light" servers to gather up enough wealth that they can then xfer over to a server that has high demand.
so? this game is pretty much made to resemble a real economy. its just like companies doing their manufacturing in countries that will do the work for much less than others and then selling the items in America or Japan for like a 100x profit. and if servers have a "high demand" for it, i dont really see the big problem with people wanting to sell there, people that are not in big or high alliances and dont want to leave their safety net clan cannot really get any boss jewels, so why should they suffer?
if servers have a "high demand" for it, i dont really see the big problem with people wanting to sell there, people that are not in big or high alliances and dont want to leave their safety net clan cannot really get any boss jewels, so why should they suffer?
Thats the point I was trying to make :P
It seems to be the conclusion by some here that if server transfers come, then all their ubers will quit and they will actually have a chance to compete.
That is furthest from the truth, as some will stay simply to farm the epics and hand them over to friends on other servers to sell for cash.
Not to mention Farmers. The only thing currently stopping farmers from locking down Baium, Antharas, Frit on most servers ARE those uber alliances some seem to hate. They'd have it on lockdown so fast just like they do QA/Zaken/Orfen.
You think competing with real players is bad, its nothing compared to competing against a program that you can never, ever win against.
NCsoft just needs to merge all the NA servers together, without telling anyone before hand. You sign on after update, there is one server called NAserver. Castles etc are unmanned, and its one big free for all.
We should not be discussing server "mergers" anyway. We should be discussing "server RESETS"....as I posted earlier.
If there needs to be a reshuffling (which I don't agree there does) then it's only fair if ALL players get uprooted and relocated on the same day.
Doesn't matter the final numbers. I don't care if there are, in the end, 3 'new' uber servers or 6 or 8. Since no one knows how many accounts create a 'heavy' or 'light' tag, no one but NCSoft knows how many accounts are on each server.
And as I've posted before, the thousands of bots on Franz count as 'accounts' but certainly not players--so one wonders what value is placed in pure #'s anyway.
Are the 2000 real players on Lionna (plus 1000 bots) any less valid as PLAYERS than the 3000 players on Franz (plus the 3000 bots there)? I would argue no. Sure Franz looks twice as populated--and by ACCOUNTS it is--but when we are talking about changes that effect PLAYERS they should get no more consideration than the Lionna folks (or anyone else).
*of course I made up the #'s for illustration sake--no one knows them except NCSoft.
When "server RESETS" happen, there should be whatever number of totally new servers and all players should be relocated to them. No current server should 'survive'--including yours.
And as I said before, other changes need to happen at the same time the reset occurs. For one, there should be no ability to spawn toons on more than one server--otherwise rebalance will be required before long a SECOND time.
As usual my advice to all is "be careful what you wish for and demand". You don't and can't know that you won't be the one transferred off your server--even if you currently play Bartz, Teon, and Franz (lol).
If servers must be collapsed in the future at some point the only fair thing to do is to uproot EVERYONE on ALL servers.
Sorry.
Business is not based on fairness, sorry. Thriving servers dont need any changes since they're already thriving. Saves NC money, time and effort to not touch them. Saves them also time, effort and money to collapse the light servers into a few bigger ones.
PS. NC has never been fair, so your model would be like the end of world.
Don't care how it's for you, but I find post of DrakkosIV is emo. Maybe it's cultural differece question but at ours national community forums we don't like subjects such as DrakkosIV... :)
Business is not based on fairness, sorry. Thriving servers dont need any changes since they're already thriving. Saves NC money, time and effort to not touch them. Saves them also time, effort and money to collapse the light servers into a few bigger ones.
PS. NC has never been fair, so your model would be like the end of world.
if that were at all true (businesses not being fair) you wouldnt see not-for-porfit companies as prominent in customer care-oriented areas like Medicine. like clinics for aids, like charities for children with diseases, like centers for awareness of devastating things like AIDS.
businesses are fair.
markets, however, are cuthroat an unfair. marketing is what makes a company successful in cuthroat sectors where high-cash flow is a must. example: concerts. youll hear more concert announcements with big bad noises and funky effets to draw people into pumping money into tickets.
hanna montana tickets went recently for 200 bucks for the nosebleed section. and 50thousand people went.
hockey tickets for rink-side are nearing 1000 bucks and the seats are packed for the playoffs.
superbowl ads will cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars for a 30 second spot nowadays.
thats cuthroat, and fair. everyone pais the same price. but can aids awareness groups pay for it? nope. thats whats not fair.
how does this relate to L2? server merges and transfers specifically? it costs money to operate a server. money to separate network traffic into a big server room. merging a server where 60000 people pay, into another server where 35000 people pay means two things: means youve got to give everyone the same opportunity, and chance. making a NEW server, and DELETING the old two and forcing everyone onto the new one is the only fair absolute to that.
I think it's more how the word is used these days. It's almost as if it has lost its true meaning or something. Just like lots of other words that are used to flame or insult other people, they've become popular and turned into general slurs only.
Business is not based on fairness, sorry. Thriving servers dont need any changes since they're already thriving. Saves NC money, time and effort to not touch them. Saves them also time, effort and money to collapse the light servers into a few bigger ones.
PS. NC has never been fair, so your model would be like the end of world.
if that were at all true (businesses not being fair) you wouldnt see not-for-porfit companies as prominent in customer care-oriented areas like Medicine. like clinics for aids, like charities for children with diseases, like centers for awareness of devastating things like AIDS.
businesses are fair.
Medicine companies funneling a small amount of their income to charity is not fair, its a good marketing trick, nothing more. More so, it also serves as a testing field for new drugs. And how many of these clinics and such are government run or backed up? How many of them have charity organizations running them, hmm?
If you think a company that is making hundreds of millions and handing out a pesky amount to charity is being fair, good game, thats all I have to say about it.
Business is not based on fairness, sorry. Thriving servers dont need any changes since they're already thriving. Saves NC money, time and effort to not touch them. Saves them also time, effort and money to collapse the light servers into a few bigger ones.
PS. NC has never been fair, so your model would be like the end of world.
if that were at all true (businesses not being fair) you wouldnt see not-for-porfit companies as prominent in customer care-oriented areas like Medicine. like clinics for aids, like charities for children with diseases, like centers for awareness of devastating things like AIDS.
businesses are fair.
Medicine companies funneling a small amount of their income to charity is not fair, its a good marketing trick, nothing more. More so, it also serves as a testing field for new drugs. And how many of these clinics and such are government run or backed up? How many of them have charity organizations running them, hmm?
If you think a company that is making hundreds of millions and handing out a pesky amount to charity is being fair, good game, thats all I have to say about it.
youve never even seen a company like this have you.
lets put it this way the only companies making money in medicine are twofold: private practices of general practitioners, and cosmetic medicine like liposuction, cosmetic dentistry etc.
businesses that actually have to make people FUNCTION again are government funded. ambulances and police and fire services - all government paid. in some countries (like canada) an additional portion of those incomes of the workers is taxpayers money. in some countries taxes paid by all citizens go towards public services and exploitation of that funding is national crimes punishable by the worst sentencing available.
thats fair.
if youre trying to say how a big giant company making billions per year (microHard) is not fair to dump nearly 25% of its income as a whole into goods and services (finding parts of special events like the olympics, making companies to produce special items to be displayed at those events like banners and signs and branding logos on gear), product refinement, and buying-out directly small business competition - youre sadly mistaken. spending money on charity hardly. spending money to make money, yes. thats exactly why L2 is as cut-throat as it is. those who have can spend to make more. those who do not have, simply do not have.
Don't care how it's for you, but I find post of DrakkosIV is emo. Maybe it's cultural differece question but at ours national community forums we don't like subjects such as DrakkosIV... :)
Learn to read numbskull. I don't have an emo bone in my body.
I want to upset the 'conventional' thought spewed on this subject.
"Most" of those whining and crying and begging for server mergers are on Botz....um...Bartz. Their b.s. drivel is always the same: "collapse and uproot those OTHER people and force them to come HERE for me!"
My argument is that all paying customers are absolutely equal. If there is relative inconvenience and upset and pain to be experienced by an action the company takes then it's logical that ALL customers have the same experience.
The folks paying their subscription on Gustin or Seig or Lionna haven't done anything wrong.
Just because there are 80% more bots on Bartz and Franz and Teon doesn't mean those players should have less upset than anyone else.
....and you can shove that emo and your smirk where the sun doesn't shine.
With 2 European servers clearly labeled as such, located in Germany.
Also, when talking about businesses, there is no label to start with so sorry, but my Finnish companies are as valid as your ones. Or does the word business have a NA tag on it?
With 2 European servers clearly labeled as such, located in Germany.
Also, when talking about businesses, there is no label to start with so sorry, but my Finnish companies are as valid as your ones. Or does the word business have a NA tag on it?
your finnish businesses are just as valid as NA businesses. please point out where i said only NA businesses were fair/good/valid etc.
NC the company based in Texas USA bears the title of " North American " headquarters for non-korean servers.
thats all.
Teon and Franz servers can call themselves euro servers but the only thing making them euro is the times when sieges are held. as a Canadian i am allowed, encouraged and welcome to log in and play there just as much as a Russian, Polish or Brazilian.
Well, speaking from experience, you do know that cities charge a CRAP TON if you take a ride in an ambulance right? Granted decent insurance will pay for it, but the majority of that fee goes into the city's accounts as PROFIT. I know because I have seen the books of the local Public Safery Department, and know that it is reported as a fee and that most of it is pure profit. I live in the U.S. Also, the goal of any good business is to make money, even non-profit orginizations charge fees and such that go into an account. Any good board of directors tries to make this account grow, wether it is considered a "for profit" business is all symantics. Almost every orginization out there is there to make money.
Economic Indicators:
- Manor fruits turned in within 1/2 a second of manor reset, implies high level of activity
or 3rd party programs
- active market for base mats and high demand key mats such as A/S weapon parts and recipes, fair market for 'occasional craft' mats like Rind Leather and Plated Leather
1.again my suspision is the 3rd party programs selling all the manor fruits in the 1/2 second the basic mats are availible.
2.i spoil so much rind leather i dont even want it. and plated leather mats are also easily obtained from spoils and other mobs if you hunt the right ones.
- Giran full of shops, Dion full of shops, more shops in Aden, Rune and Goddard than six months ago, implies high level of activity
duh, lots of adena to be had (see next quote)
- An (unfortunate) high number of spams for activities that are against the EULA.
I'm sure NC Soft will get right on that problem.
If there wasn't a large base of potential customers for these lame businesses, they would go out of business for lack of profits.
no doubt there is, but there is also a certain satisfaction to be had from doing things the legit way.
now i am not saying your server or any server is dead, just because the uber high high lvls are bored with their server but would think it a huge waste to start from scratch on another server (that they consider to be active)
i just don't agree that the economy is controlled by the players or even the castle lords at all. its controlled by the automated. and thats what is killing the servers.
Edit---> just my opinion.
Well, speaking from experience, you do know that cities charge a CRAP TON if you take a ride in an ambulance right? Granted decent insurance will pay for it, but the majority of that fee goes into the city's accounts as PROFIT. I know because I have seen the books of the local Public Safery Department, and know that it is reported as a fee and that most of it is pure profit. I live in the U.S. Also, the goal of any good business is to make money, even non-profit orginizations charge fees and such that go into an account. Any good board of directors tries to make this account grow, wether it is considered a "for profit" business is all symantics. Almost every orginization out there is there to make money.
speaking from experience, non-profit companies actually make no money. at least the ones in Canada dont. what you pay is exactly what is paid for outside help. example, you get an operation and your bills amount to 10 000 bucks; of that everything you pay goes to the right places (nurses, equipment, disposal, drugs) and no money returns to the company helping you. how does that company stay in business? 1$ exists on the company books year after year making it a legitimate business, and non-taxable (falling under the taxable business plans).
im not sure how it works in the US, but if that ambulance ride cost you dearly, try not to take another one.
Well, I work for a credit union, which is considered a non-profit orginization as defined by a whole bunch of regulations and charters etc, yet every managers meeting we have is about how to make more money.
Also, if you read, I never took the ride in the cities ambulance, I just looked at the cities income statements.
speaking from experience, non-profit companies actually make no money. at least the ones in Canada dont
Your entirely confused.. at least in the states.
Non profit simply means you must show a 0 balance at the end of the year. That dosent mean you arent making a profit because you can pay your employee's whatever you **** well wish. Thus, you still are making a profit as a CEO/CFO/etc... since your paycheck is rather large.
Are you the *Company* making a profit? No, but everyone *in* the company is. Its the same difference.
thats exactly what i posted. being book balance of 1$ means the nurses/gear/etc used by the company to aid you were paid, but the company holds no money.
Why? Because of how hardcore it is. Tell me in a year how many of those 40's are still playing. I'd bet only 1 or 2 out of 30.
Seen it time and again, as Charm said, having to clear out the Academy every month from new players who've quit.. most of which we've fully equiped in top D to even try to help.
Sorry, you fail ;/
/FAIL AGAIN
So you would rather have 2 people join and only one make it past B grade? (And then probably even quit?)
That's ignorant talk. It's better to have 500 people start and 50 make it to C grade. And when 50 make it to C grade and like it enough to continue, another 200 might give it a try. And so what if only 20 of those make it to C grade as well? Their action might bring some of those back who gave up before.
Never underestimate the 'group mentality' either. If the game is hard and you only have 100 A grade people to look at, your going to think you may as well quit now.
BUT, if there are 100 A graders, 500 B graders, 1,000 C graders and 5,000 D graders you might just stick around a fair bit longer. The higher level give you something to look forward to, while the lower grades give you motivation, communication and groups to work with. And you don't feel so bad being under geared or lacking wealth if your not the only one in that situation.
And once there is some momentum going with people joining or at least trying the game, the numbers of people who stay around longer or at least play more casually will expand as well, filling in during 'primetime' makes the server more healthy and stops that downwards spiral a server with only A/S graders has stuck themselves in.
And as far as Academy members quitting after you gear them up....why do you hand them everything? It's good to help them help themselves, but it's actually couterproductive to give them everything! People actually do very well when there is a good correlation between work and reward. (The fact that L2 has far too much work than reward is another thread.) So help them with a NG weapon, but have them get their own armor/jewels. And in D grade help them with armor, but have them work on their weapon. And apply the same for C and B grade, and by the time they make it too A grade they might just be hooked enough to keep going.
But reduce the game to just an XP grind, and the game gets pretty boring. And bored people move on quickly. And before you trot out the old 'hardcore' XP grind saw again. Let me ask you, Is the item grind in a game like Diablo II any different? Or Epic Grinding in WoW? These are and were very popular games. And they had no less of a grind behind them once in many ways either. What they did have, was a sense of progress. Not necessarily for just XP, but also for Loot as well. take one away and the games are much less than what they were. L2 isn't much different in the end. (Even if the scale is no where near balanced....yet.)
Providing Clan Oath, some shots, possible weapon upgrade helping and helping with C/B-grade is imo the best way. I dont mean flat out giving it all, I mean trading, guiding them to quests and manor and cutting them really cheap deals. B/A-grade, when the member is dedicated enough, full gearing can be done since then it is for the best of the clan.
Yes, I craft for the clan, that is my only purpose for making more adena in this game(and Getting AQ+Baium). Some people dont have the patience nor the market savvy(or ability to keep comps on and check the market a few times during the day) to do it alone, hence why a supporting clan plays a big role in people not quitting because of the economical side.
That's ignorant talk. It's better to have 500 people start and 50 make it to C grade. And when 50 make it to C grade and like it enough to continue, another 200 might give it a try. And so what if only 20 of those make it to C grade as well? Their action might bring some of those back who gave up before.
Better than what exactly? There is no other option presented. (I certainly didnt present one)
As to the "so what", its called churn rate. Look it up for god sakes. If 500 start, and only 20 stay... your game will never survive its natural progression. God you fail so hard :x
Never underestimate the 'group mentality' either. If the game is hard and you only have 100 A grade people to look at, your going to think you may as well quit now.
Which is (duh) why you hardly see any newbs in this game. Group mentality? Are you kidding me? You still think this is Prelude or C1?
Roam your butt around any starter village, or Gludin or Gludio. See anyone to group with? Duh, no. The only time your going to get a "pickup" group is for a Raid at those levels. Otherwise, your not needed to effectively hunt.
And once there is some momentum going with people joining or at least trying the game, the numbers of people who stay around longer or at least play more casually will expand as well, filling in during 'primetime' makes the server more healthy and stops that downwards spiral a server with only A/S graders has stuck themselves in.
Ahh, I get it now. Your theorizing. The big "IF it was THIS way" deal.
Gotcha now. If only it were anything like you describe, L2 would be a resounding success. But alas, its not.
And as far as Academy members quitting after you gear them up....why do you hand them everything? It's good to help them help themselves, but it's actually couterproductive to give them everything!
Thats your opinion, and your sure welcome to it. I however, have a different opinion.
Your typical newb wont be playing this game when he has to rest after every single mob because hes using a 400k D weapon @38, and cant even afford to spam shots.
Newbies tend to port around alot (to see the sights...), waste huge amounts of time with shadow weapon equiped (afk 20 min, oops!), among many other things.
I've got 4 in the guild right now. One we just gave a mil too, and it was gone in a week. "What did you do?" "I wanted to see what the towns looked like!" GG....... GG.
Or Epic Grinding in WoW? These are and were very popular games. And they had no less of a grind behind them once in many ways either.
Are you really comparing a *level* grind, to a item grind in both Diablo and WoW?
Amazing. Simply amazing. Talk about apples and oranges.
I make it short, neutrals and carebears have no freaking clue
how L2 runs in the endgame neither have they have any clue
about the farmer business except buying adena for money...
So stop talking about things you have no idea about. It
makes sick...
I assume like 30 max went to Bartz from Lionna mostly NA ppl.
Considering a big group went to WoW or stopped it was noticable.
I make it short, neutrals and carebears have no freaking clue
how L2 runs in the endgame neither have they have any clue
about the farmer business except buying adena for money...
So stop talking about things you have no idea about. It
makes sick...
I assume like 30 max went to Bartz from Lionna mostly NA ppl.
Considering a big group went to WoW or stopped it was noticable.
take your "neutrals know jack -_-" theory and cram it where the sun dont shine.
I really wish all the lower levels/neutrals would stop blaming the game's current state on what they call the "ubers". Maybe some people have been driven away by other players, but the vast majority of people who have quit this game have quit due to problems with the game itself.
Nothing, short of NC Korea actually realizing that NA is different and has different needs than Korea, will save this game. No amount of public relations or marketing will change it, no server transfers will save it, no server mergers will save it. I may not believe that server mergers will 'save' the game, but I do believe that it will at least make the playing environment more fun for the people who are left and hopefully extend the life of the game.
I've been playing this game too long and have seen too many people leave to be stupid enough to think that the so-called "ubers" are at fault. I've seen most of the first players on my server to achieve level 75 grow bored and quit long ago. I've seen massive amounts of players exit L2 for WoW, starting in C2/C3. I currently have no clan, because every person that's ever been in my clan (with the exception of 3 or 4) either went to WoW or rerolled on Bartz (the rerollers did this within the last 9 months.) I have a friendlist FULL of people who have quit. (And yes, I can make new friends and I have, but I would have liked for the old ones to stay...)
My point about all of this is not to QQ woe is me, but to say that anyone blaming the 'light' load on the 'ubers' doesn't have a flippin' clue what they are talking about.
IMO, we're past the point of people quitting because of problems with the game itself. Most of the people who have stuck it out this long pretty much like the game. Now we're having trouble with people leaving because there's no activity, not enough people, etc. It's like a snowball effect. People who still kinda like the game are quitting because there aren't enough people, causing yet more people to leave, etc. Like me, they could be worried that simple server transfers won't help the problem (what if they limit the servers you can transfer to? What if people just randomly shuffle from one low pop server to another? The server might get some new blood but no more numbers than it had...) Server mergers, however, might be something that would draw them back.
P.S. To Drakkos, did you miss the day in Kindergarten where they taught you that life is not fair? Apparently so...
P.P.S. To all those saying server mergers would make people quit; you're probably right, some people would quit. However, nothing NCsoft does is going to make everybody happy and I think it's time that they look at whether not getting the ball rolling on mergers will cause more people to quit in the long run than merging will.
IMO, we're past the point of people quitting because of problems with the game itself
except... i only hear high level players moaning how its boring, repetitive, and broken. i dont see any posts except the Grazzt handful saying anything about how broken the low level game is. and if youll notice, a lot of posts tell him "go play wow, carebear noobface"
kind of hypocritic to with one hand shun the lowbies, and with the other hand say the game is dead.
its the uber's fault for that. bar none. those who, as youve stated, "like" the game and still play either havent gotten to the boring part, or have rerolled literally 2 accounts worth of B levels.
I make it short, neutrals and carebears have no freaking clue
how L2 runs in the endgame neither have they have any clue
about the farmer business except buying adena for money...
So stop talking about things you have no idea about. It
makes sick...
I assume like 30 max went to Bartz from Lionna mostly NA ppl.
Considering a big group went to WoW or stopped it was noticable.
what in the name of all that's holy does being an end-gamer have to do with whether or not everyone else has to put up with server mergers?
I don't care if you are lvl 30 and you really like playing on kain, or seig, or lionna, or wherever....you pay your monthly fee and have as much right to an opinion as someone subclassed, 78+, hero.
And I don't expect LIFE to be fair (lmao). I'v been on earth longer than most of you and know exactly what life is.
We're not discussing life. We're discussing "how" server mergers might happen.
It's reasonable to expect such a change to have an equal (if you don't like the word "fair") consequence for everyone who pays their fee.
Someone's monthly 15.00 who plays on Botz is not more valuable than someone's 15.00 who plays on Gustin.
If 'some' have to have mergers shoved down their throats then all should have to--so that every paying subscriber has an equal outcome.
As long as Bartz, Franz, and Teon go away like all others--I'm all for new server arrangements.
Apparantly that thought makes some of you 'advocates of mergers' a bit uncomfortable (lol).
If 'some' have to have mergers shoved down their throats then all should have to--so that every paying subscriber has an equal outcome.
As long as Bartz, Franz, and Teon go away like all others--I'm all for new server arrangements.
Why? Give me one good reason why NCsoft should so completely revamp their servers. So far you've come up with nothing more than "but it's not fair! If I gotta do it Mommy, so does he!" If Bartz, Teon and Franz (and any other servers for that matter) have enough active accounts to warrant leaving them alone, then what would be the point of merging them too? Do you really think that those who don't want server mergers are going to feel all better just because everyone was merged, so now it's "equal" or "fair"? If so, think again.
except... i only hear high level players moaning how its boring, repetitive, and broken. i dont see any posts except the Grazzt handful saying anything about how broken the low level game is. and if youll notice, a lot of posts tell him "go play wow, carebear noobface"
Hmm... for someone who spends so much time on the boards you sure don't have a lot of board-sense. Maybe this phenomenon you are pointing out (the fact that it's mostly the high levels complaining) is because the lower level, newer players are not as invested in the game and therefore are not as attached and dedicated to sticking w/ it. I'm sure that a great majority of newer players just leave w/o making a big stink about it on the boards. Someone who has been playing for 4 years or who has played enough in their time here to reach 75+ is obviously going to be just a tad more vocal.
I will direct you to MMORPG.com (http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/forum/496), where I spend a good deal of my time trying to counterbalance all the bad stuff people say about L2. Here, you will see the real me. There, I sound 100% the fanboi(girl). There are just so many people who played L2 (often barely past their 50s) giving negative reviews, telling people never to play, the grind is horrible, there's nothing to do, you're required to bot and purchase adena in order to play, the only way to play L2 is to be an "uber" and it's impossible for ppl to achieve that this late in the game, etc. (Believe it or not, I actually champion the game's ability to support casual play.) What bothers me so much is that a great majority of those nay-sayers are players that never played past level 52, hardly even gave the game a chance (and often don't even know what they're talking about.)
My point is, just because the lower level / newer players aren't coming HERE and complaining, doesn't mean they aren't quitting too and taking their complaints elsewhere.
Someone's monthly 15.00 who plays on Botz is not more valuable than someone's 15.00 who plays on Gustin.
Whats amusing about you is that you fail to realize Bartz has had THE MOST people fighting against farmers and bots.
The majority of Bartz clan's are pretty clean, compared to Gustin (which you seem to quote alot), not to mention Kain (LOL.... They dont even hide wa**** in screenshots anymore), or any of the other servers.
The only one you can REALLY point to being very bad at boting is Franz. Mostly because everyone knew NCSoft was beyond caring at that point so **** near everyone did it.
speaking on NCNA and fairness and equality.. when beta was occurring those who participated got to keep their toons when prelude occurred. There was no server wipe. I *think* alpha was a wipe but maybe not. NCNA is not going to merge a server in a fair way nor would they ever wipe a server.
I have to agree with Ash about the equality deal. If you want to talk equality though you could weight your statistics this way. Bartz has $100,000 worth of subscriptions (just random numbers) .. Lionna $50,000. Which one is more important cashflow wise in the long run? Which one should they appease more? If I am NCNA and i have to pick which amount I want ot risk losing the most of I am picking screwing over Lionna.
Not sure if he meant that, or simply mispelt Bartz, lol. Oh Well!
He's done it several times. See, to his thinking, high server population means that there's just lots of bots. NO WAY that there could be more live players there than on some god forsaken Lionna.
If 'some' have to have mergers shoved down their throats then all should have to--so that every paying subscriber has an equal outcome.
As long as Bartz, Franz, and Teon go away like all others--I'm all for new server arrangements.
Why? Give me one good reason why NCsoft should so completely revamp their servers. So far you've come up with nothing more than "but it's not fair! If I gotta do it Mommy, so does he!" If Bartz, Teon and Franz (and any other servers for that matter) have enough active accounts to warrant leaving them alone, then what would be the point of merging them too? Do you really think that those who don't want server mergers are going to feel all better just because everyone was merged, so now it's "equal" or "fair"? If so, think again.
except... i only hear high level players moaning how its boring, repetitive, and broken. i dont see any posts except the Grazzt handful saying anything about how broken the low level game is. and if youll notice, a lot of posts tell him "go play wow, carebear noobface"
Hmm... for someone who spends so much time on the boards you sure don't have a lot of board-sense. Maybe this phenomenon you are pointing out (the fact that it's mostly the high levels complaining) is because the lower level, newer players are not as invested in the game and therefore are not as attached and dedicated to sticking w/ it. I'm sure that a great majority of newer players just leave w/o making a big stink about it on the boards. Someone who has been playing for 4 years or who has played enough in their time here to reach 75+ is obviously going to be just a tad more vocal.
I will direct you to MMORPG.com (http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/forum/496), where I spend a good deal of my time trying to counterbalance all the bad stuff people say about L2. Here, you will see the real me. There, I sound 100% the fanboi(girl). There are just so many people who played L2 (often barely past their 50s) giving negative reviews, telling people never to play, the grind is horrible, there's nothing to do, you're required to bot and purchase adena in order to play, the only way to play L2 is to be an "uber" and it's impossible for ppl to achieve that this late in the game, etc. (Believe it or not, I actually champion the game's ability to support casual play.) What bothers me so much is that a great majority of those nay-sayers are players that never played past level 52, hardly even gave the game a chance (and often don't even know what they're talking about.)
My point is, just because the lower level / newer players aren't coming HERE and complaining, doesn't mean they aren't quitting too and taking their complaints elsewhere.
i have 2 accounts FULL of 40+ toons over two distinct servers. one toon of them hit 61 while the vast majority of my two accounts is 40-55.
ive been playing since Open beta and paid by Timecard faithfully since. my voice and vote hold just as much weight as yours.
by the way, yes, indeed a LOT of people give the game harsh reviews pre-52 but have you taken into consideration that EVERY 7x person EVER in the game will say "yes, there really isnt a lot to do pre 61, and the pve/pvp isnt nice or balanced and gear does cost a lot if you dont have a clan"
in essence even the high levels CONCUR with the argument and with the same breath tell those reviewers "go play wow carebear noobface"
I'm not whining. The reason you and others are uncomfortable is because I'm reflecting your opinions back onto you.
You (figuratively) have all argued endlessly that, among other things:
1) Server mergers are a FABULOUS idea
2) They are the ONLY way to save the game
3) They will solve virtually ALL problems for players
4) They MUST be done ASAP because the concept is just so **** BRILLIANT.
So rather obviously if they are all that--then it would be horrible not to provide those equal benefits to the poor souls on Bartz and Franz and Teon.....wouldn't it?
Merging servers is said to long overdue and desperately needed and the answer to many prayers. Well, hallalujah.
Then everyone should absolutely get them on the same day.
What's that? Bartz doesn't need them? But...but...how can that be? Bartz players have been arguing CONSTANTLY about how GREAT server mergers will be. They won't feakin' shut up about how badly mergers are needed--certainly those Bartz players were suggesting Bartz participate too.
Haha--I'm only partly yanking your chain (and the chains of others).
It's so easy to comment on what should happen "to those other guys over THERE", isn't it?
Not surprisingly when that comes home to roost it doesn't feel so comfortable.
Either mergers are the savior of Lineage or they are not. If they are then everyone, regardless of what minor indicator Bartz (franz) players want to use to excuse themselves, should be exposed to the savior of mergers.
If they are not that great of an idea then they should be dropped as a concept.
You can't have it both ways.
Lol--and as for "Botz"--yes (lmao), it is a reference to the big 3 servers often listed as 'heavy' at log-in....whose players all want you to believe they have 20,000 players and no bots while "your" crappy server has 50 players. In fact, though we don't know, immediate observation of Bartz and Franz show LEGIONS of bots starting in all starter zones compared to most of the light servers. Somehow players on the Big 3 never want the bot accounts factored into their server volume. I'v acknowledged over and over that I understand there ARE more actual players on Bartz then on Lionna.
So, yeah--I point that out often (lol).
Anyone remember the thread about the light server that was literally crying because they coudnt even touch a A grade helm recipe and the bots literally had the area on lockdown?
Yeah, light servers ftw. You dont go bots, not at all man!
ROFL. You guys cant even control them and if they wanted, they could completely own your server(s). I doubt you could even stop them from doing Baium if you wanted too.
Ah, Drakkos, I see what the problem is here. You are under the COMPLETELY 100% mistaken, off-the-wall, where-the-heck did you get that impression that the majority of the players who want server mergers are all on Bartz. Guess what? YOU'RE WRONG.
I am not on Bartz. Most of the people posting here are not from Bartz. Most of the people I've heard (here and in other places) wanting server mergers are not from Bartz.
Another lovely mistake you have made is in assuming that most of the people who want server mergers just don't want to pay for server transfers. Wrong again.
I'm not whining. The reason you and others are uncomfortable is because I'm reflecting your opinions back onto you.
ROFL, I'm not uncomfortable. I disagree with you and think that you're incapable of seeing reason or thinking logically. BIG difference. Try to understand that.
You (figuratively) have all argued endlessly that, among other things:
1) Server mergers are a FABULOUS idea
2) They are the ONLY way to save the game
3) They will solve virtually ALL problems for players
4) They MUST be done ASAP because the concept is just so **** BRILLIANT.
I realize that this was not addressing me alone, however, I wish to address a few of these points. Most particularly, point number four.
I have not seen anyone advocating immediate mergers of the server. Most of us (possibly not you, but most of the rest of us) realize that NCsoft doesn't do anything immediately and that even if NCsoft announced today that they would start working on mergers, it would be at least 9 months (probably more) before they actually did it. We're also intelligent enough to realize that NCsoft has already announced server transfers and that transfers will be available before mergers (if mergers ever happen.)
I personally believe that server mergers should happen with server transfers available. Server mergers (in most cases) are designed to combat population issues while server transfers are designed (or at least should be) for individual players. Look at WoW. They introduced server transfers a long time ago. Had they done that here, say in C1, players could have transfered servers to be with friends, to the Euro servers, to Lionna for RP, etc. Server transfers are not going to solve population problems.
Your second and especially your third points are just stupid. I believe you are going way overboard in a (failed) attempt to present your argument. No one here will say that server mergers will solve every problem with the game, ever. It just makes you look dumb to claim that people are saying that.
I understand that not everyone agrees with my views on server mergers. I have tried to present my views on it, but in doing so I do not claim that everyone shares my view. You, on the other hand, seem to be under the impression that your view (and only your view) is correct. You seem to believe that everyone else is wrong and because you cannot prove them wrong with actual evidence, you resort to blowing their statements way out of proportion and even fabricating things at times. You need to understand that people will have different opinions on things and that ultimately, neither you or I have any say in the matter.
Spud, I know he's being sarcastic, hence, my last paragraph. He cannot actually argue his opinion and thus is using sarcasm and over-blown statements to cover that lack.
Spud, I know he's being sarcastic, hence, my last paragraph. He cannot actually argue his opinion and thus is using sarcasm and over-blown statements to cover that lack.
but you are trying to enforce your own opinion as being somehow more valid than his.
i dont get it. you and he both see the same people day in, day out on the same **** server. he's seen hero chat change just as much as you have, he's seen the same alliance breakups and public gear throwaways as you have.
but somehow you see things differently. could it be one of you has spent time on other servers finding out how their economies are run, and actually finding out how welcoming those servers are?
i dont think you did adelei. but i did, with Drakkos. having helped him level high enough to see how the market does on devianne, and separately going accross a few other servers watching markets and hero chat.
knowing nobody, of course.
it would be pretty impossible to show data about what Drakkos is saying. however i think if you look at the last few months in the Player Questions and general forums either here or blah, youll find a lot of players being directed to Bartz, Franz or Teon. for the reasons that there are more players.
looking ahead a bit to server merges it would not be hard to see how that if for example gustin closed down and merged TO lionna, how every (or almost every) gustin player would [Censored] moan and whine about how they lost their clanhalls, castles, and heros.
and bartz would laugh.
which is the essence of what Drakkos is saying. you cant collapse those kinds of things and still be fair to everyone. you would have to take it away from everyone to be fair. and the good Lord knows if that happened on bartz how there would be an uproar - simply because there are more players to make an uproar.
pointfeeding heros is the way to make sure your clan has as many heros as it can, injecting a ton of players onto a one-sided server only makes things balanced until one side again dissappears.
merges are the temporary solution to a permanent problem. something is fundamentally flawed in the end game that makes it too hardcore for most. its been 2 years since heros were introduced, and whatever it is thats caused the servers to go "light" since then hasnt gone away or hasnt been publically announced. i fear its the overpowered way-too-expensive gear thats the core of the problem.
Let me end the "is Drakkos sarcastic debate" (lol).
Often I am.
And Listof is exactly right--I absolutely do sometimes make overblown, simplistic points to carry my arguments. I use language as powerfully as I can when I think it's important to do so--and reducing a concept to the absurd can be effective (as current evidence shows--lol). Which by the way makes me very much like all others on this forum.
There are two basic kinds of posts on this forum.
1) Sharing of facts. You go to x npc to get y quest which can give you a certain reward.....what armors are best for a fill-in-class-here level x toon?....where do I find newbie shots?
Those are straight-forward and we all answer them the same. I never try to answer what I don't know on those. Never. I've not played past mid-60's and you won't find me commenting on the Oly, subclasses, third class changes, hero status, or top Raids. I try hard to stick to answering and participating in only what I know.
2) The other type of post is the opinion-type. "What does everyone think about X?"
In these threads there are generally 3 types of respondents.
Those who are genuinely invested in the topic.
Those who are just trolls.
Those who have attained a very high in-game level and believe only their opinon counts.
My participation in these is often sarcastic--and often has no other goal than to tick off and upset that last category of posters.
I don't like egotistical know-it-all high level players who treat others on this forum as if they don't count and shouldn't have a voice. Those well-known people have tried to silence and humiliate all opposition to what they think since before the first day I logged on to this forum. It's just a personal dislike of mine.
When people are genuinely invested in the opinion-type discussion I try to consider their arguments and points at face value. Likewise I generally always read the troll's input since many of those folks have forgotten more than I'll ever know about the game and I've learned they often have wisdom (Savroth comes to mind here).
That last group? Sorry--they are fair game and anything anyone types to upset their applecart is within the rules.
You see, I believe time on these forums has shown me that (contrary to what the nay-sayers argue) sometimes what comes to pass as 'common opinion' really does make it into the game.
Please consider that for a moment. I actually believe this forum CAN influence game development.
SINCE THAT IS MY BELIEF--I take the opinions of others and the TRENDS of opinions on discussion topics very seriously. If a bunch of people want "archers made stronger" (which I don't) then I'm going to argue and make sure the counter opinion is heard.
If people make arguments for server mergers--which might very well eliminate a circumstance I like on my own server--then I'm going to make darned sure opposing opinions get raised here on that topic.
I love to argue and I love to debate. I don't have a goal of silencing others (which not everyone who posts regularly can say) and I know that I genuinely consider others' opinions.
I was initially against server transfers--but after a lot of consideration I can see how those could help some players in some circumstances and have changed my views. I didn't take what others said about Bartz--I leveled a half dozen toons there in the past 6 months to form my own opinion. I leveled toons to C-grade on Devianne...and have D-graders on at least 4 other servers I regularly visit including Franz--because I want to monitor those economies and circumstances.
Am I wrong to put out there that if mergers have to happen they should involve everyone? Obviously I don't think so.
You all don't have to appreciate my arguments and certainly don't have to agree with them. In a way, I'm making them to balance your posts anyway (not to eliminate your views, not to silence your views, not to squelch your views---to OPPOSE your views).
I don't expect to be liked, respected, or appreciated in the role of a guy arguing against what is popular. I expect myself to continue arguing though--when I feel it's needed and important.
In case you can't tell, I think mergers are a really bad idea. To date, I've not heard one argument that makes them important if you already can do server transfers. Yet again and again they come up on these forums and people mindlessly jump on with /signed responses. It's important to me that such isn't the only representation on the forums.
Will I also take shots at those acting all superior? You betcha....
There. Now you know Drakkos a bit better. Flame to your little heart's content (:))
merges are the temporary solution to a permanent problem. something is fundamentally flawed in the end game that makes it too hardcore for most. its been 2 years since heros were introduced, and whatever it is thats caused the servers to go "light" since then hasnt gone away or hasnt been publically announced. i fear its the overpowered way-too-expensive gear thats the core of the problem.
merges are the temporary solution to a permanent problem. something is fundamentally flawed in the end game that makes it too hardcore for most. its been 2 years since heros were introduced, and whatever it is thats caused the servers to go "light" since then hasnt gone away or hasnt been publically announced. i fear its the overpowered way-too-expensive gear thats the core of the problem.
So your solution is to... what?
Sit and do nothing?
Clan changes have decreased the value of the casual player--causing a not small # of those to leave L2.
Class skill nerfs have frustrated some people to the point of giving up.
Frustrations with the economy (and the grind) cause many people to quit in their 40-50's.
Some clans dissolve to play a competing game leaving lone players who decide to hang it up.
A few players may legitimately be so upset about EULA breakers that they quit.
Some quit due to having attained their end-game goals only to find that the biggest, baddest guys on the server make them want to just quit through their domination (or so some folks say on the forums).
Some people can't afford to play any subscription game for 2 or 3 years and have to quit.
New players, even after the advent of the academy giving them some 'value', are really often not welcomed into the game.
2/3 of the responses on this set of forums could honestly be termed "negative" depictions of Lineage II---which wouldn't exactly convince a new person to stick with it long.
Other competing companies keep trying to put out better games and develop and market the ones they already have--which siphons off players from L2.
Of course these aren't all the reasons a player quits.
....so how is it that merging only a few (if I understand you) of the remaining servers is THE answer? It doesn't seem it would address ANY of the above actual reasons players are leaving. Shoving 2000 players from 3 servers onto one server that now has 6000 players doesn't make very much in this game "easier" for those 6000. It would seem it would be yet another "last straw" and that some significant # of the 6000 who liked their old existence would quit!
....so how is it that merging only a few (if I understand you) of the remaining servers is THE answer? It doesn't seem it would address ANY of the above actual reasons players are leaving. Shoving 2000 players from 3 servers onto one server that now has 6000 players doesn't make very much in this game "easier" for those 6000. It would seem it would be yet another "last straw" and that some significant # of the 6000 who liked their old existence would quit!
I'm asking seriously.
Nothing is THE answer. Thats what I'm trying to get through to your thick skull.
There is no THE answer. I think we've all been over that by now.
It is *A* solution however. *A* solution to many of the problems low servers face. (Which you, of course, failed to mention)
That being stagnant gameplay, at high or low levels. Lack of players in general. Lack of the things this game promises, that being epic sieges, pvp battles, etc.
You still havent answered my question either, nor will you I dont think.
What would YOU do then? Keep in mind, dont be a dreamer. You know the power NCSoft NA has.
What would YOU do in the same situation? Your options are rather limited, and your back is against the wall.
I think you'd prefer we do nothing and just lay down ala the previous poster.
Finally, Drak, you make a decent post. And even Spud has a little nugget of *not-crap* in there too.
First of all Spud, I'm not saying that my opinion is more valid than Draks, as a matter of fact, I found it was the opposite. That's why I got so annoyed.
Second, I don't believe that knowing something about the economy & low-level play on multiple servers makes you an expert on server transfers. I know that in the end, that will be up to NCsoft. As Drak said, I believe (well, more like hope against hope) that what we say will actually be heard by NCsoft. So I voice my opinion on this. However, I actually did level up several toons through D-grade on Bartz within the past few months and I found it to be MUCH more enjoyable than Lionna, where you can go ages w/o even seeing anybody while XPing. I saw real players there, new players. I found it to be very refreshing and enjoyable.
looking ahead a bit to server merges it would not be hard to see how that if for example gustin closed down and merged TO lionna, how every (or almost every) gustin player would [Censored] moan and whine about how they lost their clanhalls, castles, and heros.
While I'm not psychic and can't say what NCsoft will do, you are ASSUMING here that one (and only one) server involved in the merge would loose all their clanhalls, castles and heroes. I find that to be the least likely scenario of all possibilities.
As far as mergers being a temporary solution, you're right. (GASP) However, NCsoft continuously makes changes to the game that drives people off. (Note: The vast majority of players who have left L2 left because of NCsoft, NOT ubers.) They're obviously not going to go back and undo all of them, even if they did people who left in C4 and before will not likely come back. IMO server mergers would at least make the last few years more pleasant for those of us left.
Drak - while I understand what you're saying, you don't come off the way you seem to want to. You do, in fact, come off looking exactly like those players you're trying to go up against, like your opinion is the only one that counts and you're trying to squelch everyone else's. Not a good thing, IMO.
I love to argue and I love to debate.
Great. I don't. It stresses me out. I think I might actually hate it more than pvp...
For the record Drak, and Spud too, you both like to lump me in with that group you call the "ubers". I am not, never will be and have no intention of even trying to become, an 'uber'. You act as if I don't have any clue about you, but the same is true for you.
Anyone remember the thread about the light server that was literally crying because they coudnt even touch a A grade helm recipe and the bots literally had the area on lockdown?
Yeah Gustin. But Baium is done by non-farmer allies.
Mergers will come, sooner or later. First they allow players to pick servers if they want to, servers will profile considering population, and then they'll move population from uninhabitated servers and close thouse out. Not to mention biting nails because Aion and WAR and AOC are comming ...
You take the game way too serious posting that long posts.
L2 is getting old, server transfers/merges will come wanted or not. Have been done for other games, will happen for L2 too.
Till then I only see people quiting, or rerolling to a more active server (botting ofc) or just selling their gear/epics and either w8 for server transfers or quit the game.