This is actually not a new topic, there are plenty of these. It about how lame the stuff that are dropping at high level places.
What the deal with the ******ed stuff dropping from very high level mobs? Last night I was in Hell bound. To get access to this place you need to do some instances that can take a bit time. After completing you might think all that effort would repayed by a cool place. But after killing Dino island v2.0 mobs for a good amount of time I was kinda ****** about the returns in drops.
Metal Hardners;
Mithryl Arrows;
A grade armor parts;
etc
If I were not mistaken, you need 3rd class change to even enter Hellbound meanin you are waaay past A grade and the need for metal hardeners. Why are these drops still lame as god knows what? Would it ruin the economy if very high level mobs actually dropped something useful for your level instead?
The devs stop caring about L2. hence tohe screwed up drop tables.
they are also very lazy! why else add battle manuals to the same mobs that have a horrible book drop rate to begin with. Why not make a new area with new mobs weak/resist to dark and drop the battle manuals. mobs between 40-55.
BO jewelry parts and rec spoiled like crazy from mobs that are above the lvl condition.
That must be Top A armor parts no? It's like that for every grade for instance top D jewelry parts drop of level 41-45 monsters. Top C parts of level 53-55 and so on.
Top A armor parts drop from 70 lvl mobs, now they drop from lvl 83 mobs ... it's kinda ******ed :)
Also, considering the whole IoP/CH area also spoils Top A armor parts (that's lvl 81+ mobs) and you know ... it gets annoying
I d rather they had S key parts droping 1/10000 than collecting more npc food
If you are a legit lvl 76+ then you have know about the drop rates for years, so this is no suprise, right? I symphathize with your frustrations but I also believe that you are wrong.
If these lower level mats/keymats didn't drop off all the mobs that they do drop off of, then we would have a greater shortage of them in the economy, right? That would push prices up, right? So when you did get your keymats for your S-grade gear it would them be more expensive to craft due to the shortage of raw materials.
In other words, you need these lower level mats as well as the higher level keymats to make your gear, so don't complain that you get them.
Youll have to forgive Aldemir, he hasnt had much experience with being in the top area of each chronicle. You would have noticed otherwise each area they add per chronicle is never as good as when they update it the following chronicle. Such has been the way, for making it easier months after the top people have been doing it with an increased difficulty. CT 1.5 will change it, you shall see~!
I've seen such threads appear every day. They all have one thing in common - I want to get rich quickly and start from lvl 80. So far I remember the next threads:
1. I want the top weapons to be free (reduce the materials needed for them)
2. I need to get from lvl 60 to 80 in one day (give more XP)
3. I am a nuker and want to kill the whole island with 1 nuke (gosh! I needed 2 nukes to kill this mobs)
4. I want to kill 10 mobs and to get recipes for 100mil
etc, etc, etc...
One of the advantages of this game is the challenges it put before he player. Remove the challenges and in the game will remain only bots and ebayers.
I've noticed it and it still sucks. On a certain site for example, it says the benediction SB drops with a rate of something like 1/92 from spiteful soul leaders (65+ mobs). I have killed them for entire levels and only recently got ONE of those. on that same site it also reported that the new top A weapon rec drops at like 1/70,000. That is INSANE, doesn't matter how high you are, how long you've played, that's enough to make anyone go "wth?"
If you put people into the position of playing a game for an inhuman amount of time just to be competitive in the end-game, or suffer being irrelevant: some will choose A, some will choose B, and others will simply get around the issue via third party programs.
I have heard countless times how the exp grind and quest for gear acquisition is what people love about the game. That's fine. The level of difficulty/commitment is what you love about the game, but it's also the mountain that is so steep that many choose to take the ski-lift rather than walk up it in a legit fashion. If the hill was not so high then more players would choose to walk by themselves rather than ride.
All this reminds me of 2004 when conspiracy theories were rampant. While I never believed that NCsoft was in cahoots with RMT companies you have to admit that L2 is a perfect incubating environment for what has taken place.
- Gear can be traded freely without restrictions
- Drop tables for parts and materials are pathetic let alone whole drops
- The grind is monotonous and seemingly never ending
- The level cap, which most people can't sniff, is being extended
- The rewards for being obscenely high level and outfitted with ridiculous gear are great
All of this imparts the thirst to be powerful, but impedes your ability to get there unless you spend an inordinate amount of time or seek...other avenues. Folks, this isn't an issue just for gamers. When you run a tighter ship than NCsoft and banks (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/15/halifax_blizzard_block/) still won't process your transactions then the entire industry needs to stop whatever the [censored] they are doing and reassess the efforts they are making to combat the bots, RMT, and the environment(poor game mechanics, lack of oversight, lack of customer education, lack of communication, etc.) they created that ENCOURAGES those conditions to flourish.
Oh, and someone start that noise about how it's the players that need to be the ones that keep this house in order. What's easier to change mensa: one MMO company or the morals of every human who plays L2?
Uh, I'm guessing that NCsoft can change before humanity does. Just a guess there...
One of the advantages of this game is the challenges it put before he player. Remove the challenges and in the game will remain only bots and ebayers.
LOL I laughed at that statement, because the exact OPPOSITE has happened: the game has remained "challenging" and hordes of real players have left, leaving a large portion of players who bot/ebay and a small portion of legit players.
I'm definitely not for making this game preschool level easy, but as it is, it's SO challenging that cheaters have a HUGE advantage over those of us who are legit. If high levels and high level gear weren't so incredibly difficult to obtain, then fewer people would feel the need to resort to cheating.
It pains me to ever agree with Listof in any way on any topic--but she and Jacent have this right.
A challenge is "difficult". Top of L2 playing it straight is a bit more than just "difficult".
What's more--it is increasingly obvious to even the most dimwitted newbie that the time commitment for them even to hit mid-60's legit is just too high.
Meaning even those new folks we grab who like the game can find a reason to either say "bag it" and quit or to take shortcuts.
I'm sure someone will now post how this past year they hit 74+ in 3 weeks legit and have 12 billion adena (lol).....but everyone knows that doesn't happen and isn't the usual path for those doing it according to the rules.
A typical newbie will still need a couple of serious months to hit b-grade--where they will find they need MORE time than already committed to hit A-grade--where they will find they need twice what they've already committed to hit 70+, and so on.
I personally don't mind the mountain. I'm committed to a point where I'll hit 70 (for what that's worth) if it kills me! A new person starting today or next week? It's no secret that our 'replacement new guys' aren't keeping pace with the number who leave permanently.
Like Listof, I don't want the game simplified to the absurd and am looking for no assist for myself--however NCSoft should look to 40-52+ in the same way they recently made 1-40 easier.
Once that has been tweaked, naturally they should look at some changes to support 52-61.
My 3 cents...
Oh, and someone start that noise about how it's the players that need to be the ones that keep this house in order. What's easier to change mensa: one MMO company or the morals of every human who plays L2?
Uh, I'm guessing that NCsoft can change before humanity does. Just a guess there...
This sort of segues slightly into a thought I've been having. I see here and there that people will say "that's ok, let L2 go to blazes, L3 will come out and I'll just play that".
I wonder if people realize that L3 will most likely not follow in the footsteps of L2.
L2 hearkens back to the old style grind games but someone got the notion that everything should be so difficult that one had to adopt a completely zen attitude. to get it done.
I think part of the issue is that L2 really is made for large groups of people working together ALL THE TIME EVERY DAY ALL THE TIME!
I remember when I was looking for mold hardeners for crafting. Way back when. They were very expensive so I started grinding at forsaken plains has I heard they dropped there.
I was there for an incredible amount of levels and probably got 3 of them to drop. More than 10 levels.
that was obscene. Needless to say I decided not to craft the item and work on making money instead to buy the item straight away.
Still, the point being is that if a player wants to get a high lvl recipe they need to be at a place for weeks. Heck, in order for me to get my hurricane book I started grinding at EV and was there for over 2 weeks before I gave up and purchased it for much more money that I originally thought it was worth.
In other words, you need these lower level mats as well as the higher level keymats to make your gear, so don't complain that you get them.
I am pretty sure those mats do not enter the economy except for a very few harder to get ones. They get npc'd. Nobody wants more Metal Hardeners from super high level mobs.
what would also be nice would be the ability to break down mats. Metal Hardeners are like a C grade material but the materials that make it are very valuable so if it could be broken down into their baser parts that'd be awesome. I had this problem once with Mithril Alloy.. i ended up making them ahead of time then changed crafting priorities and needed VoP. I ended up trading with a clannie but stil be a nice feature. Ok that was a little off topic anyways. Yeah level 80 mobs should prolly drop S grade I would think now with the advent of S80 but who knows maybe that will change in future expansions. I think thats sorta how it goes but I never really tracked drops over the chronicles.
If ncsoft put more than 2 seconds of thought in the crafting system, you could do something like that. In Designing Virtual Worlds, it makes a great point that if you want a crafting system to work it needs to be as varied as the fighter skills. Is it? Not even close. Dwarves get craft, crafter higher, and crafter higher. No depth at all.
Oh, and someone start that noise about how it's the players that need to be the ones that keep this house in order. What's easier to change mensa: one MMO company or the morals of every human who plays L2?
Uh, I'm guessing that NCsoft can change before humanity does. Just a guess there...
I laughed when I saw this; everything Jacent said is so true, and those last lines were the perfect ending. I will say it again: If the devs played this game and had to work for their own gear, up from level 1 to S grade, a lot of things would be changed, and I bet the spoil tables would be the first big change.
heh funny thought what if the dev's do play and are so wrapped up in the grind now {of their own design} they spend all of their time playing and no longer designing ... o.O
I would dearly love to see NCNA development team take an active role in diversifying Lineage 2 within the NA/Euro market. We do not want a carbon copy of what the Korean's get.
The current L2 drop tables are based off of the Korean market where on any given day there exists many times more people online then what the average server here has. It boils down to basic mathematic statistical probabilities.
On average there is what maybe 2K at most 3K players online on one of the NA servers? (Yes I understand Teon and Franz have a much higher daily concurrent connection) How many concurrent connections do the Korean servers have? Across all 33/34 servers?
If NCNA would modify the current drop tables to reflect the player base here L2NA would be much better off.
Please note I am not saying that lvl 40 mobs need to be dropping 100,000 adena every kill or that lvl 10 mobs need to be dropping 10 bone per kill. But a GREAT increase in BASE material drop rates would alleviate alot of the market instability resulting from hard to obtain materials.
Many people will say that there is nothing wrong with the market or drops and that it should be hard to get next lvl Items. I congratulate those who have great success in the current L2 market, its not easy (as seen by the sheer volume of RMT'ers) Quite unfortunately not everyone is a Gene Simmons of L2.
The GM's claim that it is the player base that is responsible for controlling the economy, but we are not given the power, authority or opportunity to control or guide the Market within our individual servers.
Don't try claiming that the Castle lords set the tax rates therefore they control the economy. Players don't buy base materials or graded item parts from NPC shops.
Manor system isn't control either and you know it. If you are lucky enough to buy your seeds you have to fight tooth and nail to try and turn them in before the 3rd party programmers do. What country in their right mind sets a limit on the crops its citizens can sell?
You ever try to sell your items cheaper then all the other competition? I have, every time I sold my items for too much less compared to the Pro-Farmers one of them would buy out my entire stock and simply resell it at their own price. And why not? If you want it you have to pay for it or farm it/craft it yourself, they have all the time in the world to do what they do. I on the other hand do not.
High end weapon and armor parts should be difficult to obtain, it should take me awhile to craft a Dynasty sword or Dynasty Armor but please keep in mind S80 IS the natural progression from S grade and it is not exclusive. With the lengthening power divide between highest end and high end characters too compete on a lvl playing field all things must be equal.
Youll have to forgive Aldemir, he hasnt had much experience with being in the top area of each chronicle. You would have noticed otherwise each area they add per chronicle is never as good as when they update it the following chronicle. Such has been the way, for making it easier months after the top people have been doing it with an increased difficulty. CT 1.5 will change it, you shall see~!
From what I see, CT1.5 will boost Dino Island, I guess you are right. But this still doesnt change the fact that its very lame that those places have the worst rewards for your trouble. Heck those mobs outside are a pain in the [censored]. I wonder how the mobs in the new tower are going to be. Silver arrows anyone?
The mat drops use to be much better back in C2 and C3. I believe it was changed for the worse in C4 and has been bad since. I remember back when BH's complained about the drop rait of base mats was to high and cutting into thier spoils. They got thier wish and now it take 60 lvl to collect enough mats to craft 1 A grade weapon (maybe alittle less). I remember when all raid bosses no matter what lvl they were dropped full items and not just parts. The drop tables have steadily gotten worse and RMT has steadily gotten more prevelent. If you can't see the writing on the wall I don't know what to tell you. There is a reason why NcSoft makes it so hard to collect materials, but you wont find it in writing anywhere.
Yep, it was. Heck in C1 we use to get drops like candy in Cruma Tower, then in C2 instead of getting item drops we got lots of junk like heal pots. In C2 in TOI full drops were common, at least one a night in a group. C3, yeah right, drops?
I hate how the current system is... but there's little to do even thou many of you made very valid points.
I don't think they have free hand to do as they please on these nono-koreean servers. But I sure hope that for monetary reasons if nothing else they will ease up on the difficulty with which most things are available in L2. But I do hope they won't change the entire game mechanics that could ruin more then fix the game (see SWG's jedi system from what someone told me..).
Nice to see a constructive post. My remark. The initial game design did not take into account any external factors like RMT, pro farmers (why should they anyway?). But when these 2 factors started affecting the game, NC didn't react (or tried and failed). Instead the game was made harder over time for casual gamers.
By increasing the top level cap, new players need to cover a lot of ground to get there. All changes are addresed mainly to high level players in an effort to keep them still playing. The changes for players below 40 hardly have any meaning (they came too late). Most new players are helped a lot when they enter a clan, so getting from 1 to 40 is not really a problem (clan oaths are good armor sets and cheap but now, most clans could afford to lend a good D-grade armor anyway). Getting parties and gear from 40 to 60 is harder. Not many new player at that range and old ones (rerolls, subs) usuaslly use their OOP buffers or certain classes to level up in the minimum time possible. Raid bosses from 40-65 are rarely done since a lot of people and top OOP support are needed (this is not Korea as someone pointed out). But even then the exp gains are laughable.
I am affraid that many people abandon the game or even reroll some where between 65-70. This is a point where
-Grind becomes severe. People realise that although they managed to make it to A-grade, they will need a lot more time to hit S-grade
-Wars start to appear, exp is lost more often. The stress can be too big sometimes
-The demand for expensive gear becomes too big. 60% crafts can be a big drawback to a legit player
-Worst of all, some people they met during the course of the game and were around their level, now run around with their subclass and their OE weapons. Maybe they even have a diffrent RL name now.
This game is very gear and level dependant. That is the reason why both were designed to be hard to get. The problem is that with RMT , 3rd party programs and farmers/powerlevelers an easy way around the "hard" part is available. And a lot of people use it unfortunately.
Ncsoft thinks that everybody can play 24h a day without shots to make enough money to get a crap low grade armor/ weapon. We dont need to go S grade to see how hard is to craft somethings, try a damascus for example, and when you hit A you get a free pass to the hell of crafters but first need to pass to the hell of the quests to make the crafts.
Make drops/spoil (except adena) 2x so, at least, we can get materials enough to craft our things without that lamme manor system that are ruled by bots. I dont care about the farmers, if they can be 24h online [censored] them.. I just want to have fun with my few time to play ( i mean, at least 4 hours day).
The grind for xp is very nice, but it looses all the shine when u need to do it forever with a stupid and ugly armor/weapon.
LOL I laughed at that statement, because the exact OPPOSITE has happened: the game has remained "challenging" and hordes of real players have left, leaving a large portion of players who bot/ebay and a small portion of legit players.
I'm definitely not for making this game preschool level easy, but as it is, it's SO challenging that cheaters have a HUGE advantage over those of us who are legit. If high levels and high level gear weren't so incredibly difficult to obtain, then fewer people would feel the need to resort to cheating.
Nah. I am not a cheater, don't scam, don't use bots and don't playe more then couple of hours daily.
And exactly 3 month ago I was completely newbie. Now I have a bishop which just hit A grade and already has full majestic robe set. Plus 2 more toons which are near A grade and share the same BW heavy set. And I found the game challenging enough to stay. If every 3rd drop is word of miracles I surely will leave. And I wanted to become a hero i 3 weeks I should stay on some x200 private server which has the advantage to be free too (including bots free).
But as I said alreadfy I am hardcore RPG player. And the real RPG is hard and is entirely dependent on the gear and level. This is not Quake neither CS.
And I really don't play actively more then a couple of hours daily but it is pure loss of money - AND EVERYONE CAN MAKE IT - not to leave your toons to buy and sell every time you are not online. Just hit a button and setup and shop. Then minimize the game and forget about it for the next 20+ hours. Is this so hard to do it?
Most people won't and can't do that, the vast majority.
Who do you think buys your stuff??? Not you who are making those trades but other people playing more actively not beeing able or wanting to stay afk in shop for days in a row.. get it?
Sure you can make adena with proper buy/sell/playing the market but not all can do that , it's techincally impossible if you think about it ;).
If u grind you dont make money at least untill lvl 61, except maybe for spoilers..if u really can get your top gear just grinding and with a shop open for 24h day selling what u got from drops please write a tutorial, the comunity will transform you in a guru.
Nah. I am not a cheater, don't scam, don't use bots and don't playe more then couple of hours daily.
And exactly 3 month ago I was completely newbie. Now I have a bishop which just hit A grade and already has full majestic robe set. Plus 2 more toons which are near A grade and share the same BW heavy set. And I found the game challenging enough to stay. If every 3rd drop is word of miracles I surely will leave. And I wanted to become a hero i 3 weeks I should stay on some x200 private server which has the advantage to be free too (including bots free).
But as I said alreadfy I am hardcore RPG player. And the real RPG is hard and is entirely dependent on the gear and level. This is not Quake neither CS.
And I really don't play actively more then a couple of hours daily but it is pure loss of money - AND EVERYONE CAN MAKE IT - not to leave your toons to buy and sell every time you are not online. Just hit a button and setup and shop. Then minimize the game and forget about it for the next 20+ hours. Is this so hard to do it?
Let me get this straight.
-You begun L2 3 months ago not knowing the game at all
-You play 2-3 hours a day
-You do a lot of RPG
-Now you have a toon that when it hit A grade it had Full majestic.
-You have 2 more toons in B grade
-You did all that just by sell shops
If u grind you dont make money at least untill lvl 61, except maybe for spoilers..if u really can get your top gear just grinding and with a shop open for 24h day selling what u got from drops please write a tutorial, the comunity will transform you in a guru.
Not only selling but buying too. You don't need to be a dwarf to produce your own items. When you get some keymates you usually sell them to dwarfs or to NPC if no one wants them. Why instead of selling you don't buy the missing parts and produce the whole item? Every dwarf manufacture will produce it for a small payment.
I have a spoiler indeed but in the yearly lvls the spoilers get only basic mats. Every manor can make it too. Besides the spoil of the basic mats don't give really big money.
I bought my full plate set entirely through (quickly) buying basic mats on FAIR prices and manufactoring them to higher mats then selling them quickly at FAIR prices. This way you will not get 10kk profit for 1 day but will make 200-300k. At lvl 61 this may seems nothing but for noob toon in 30 it is serious money. As for the manufactoring - for the price of 50a per unit every dwarf manufacture will produce them. Something more - you can make up to 7 chars on every server but most ppl usually have 2-3. Make "fake" chars and put them in the other major town. This way you will save time and/or money for teleport. Leave your fake char to buy some mats in Aden (for example) for tonight untill you start to play the next day and then leave other char - or your main if needed for the night to sell the bought mats in Giran even if you don't manufacture them in higher mats.
More - not everyone is selling on the same price. Someone is selling a little cheaper and someone is selling a little more expensive. Look for cheaper deals and buy the stuff then resell it AT MEDIUM price. Again 100-200k profit. For example on Teon the price of divine gloves is 900k-1200k. Make a quick check for 5 minutes before going off for good deals and grab them if you find it. Then leave your char for the night untill you start to play the next day. If you put a fair price or even a little bit expensive there is a big chance the stuff is already sold when you decide to play.
Sometimes - very rarely indeed you can even buy the stuff (usually mats) and sell them ASAP to a buy shop for very quick profit.
Of course it needs persistance - but to setup a buy or sell shop you don't need much time and every time you logg off without buying or selling something you leave adena on the table.
Let me get this straight.
-You begun L2 3 months ago not knowing the game at all
-You play 2-3 hours a day
-You do a lot of RPG
-Now you have a toon that when it hit A grade it had Full majestic.
-You have 2 more toons in B grade
-You did all that just by sell shops
Yeah right, whatever. :D
Absolutely right. I made my trial account on 11.02.2007. Two weaks before leaned about the game in a forum. Started on a private server for several days but there were tons of bugs and not working features so I bought a local magazine which had the game on the DVD together with a trial serial and registered my trial account. Definitely liked the game so I quickly upgraded to a full account. Meanwhile my wife liked the game too so I made a trial account for her too - which was upgraded for a full account too. To be absolutely precise the bishop is her - but she has much less time for playing so I often play the bishop myself or dualbox it when not too dangerous.
And I didn't knew aboslutely nothing about the game - but was not ashamed to ask tons of questions. If you check the board for my post you will see when I learned what is Seven signs and about the catacombs and will see when I learned about the pole weapons.
Most of the gear we have is self-made - using the dwarven manufactures. Check again the forum and will see i asked it is worth to write in the recipe books expensive recipes. I have no such recipes - i have a warsmith but he produces only shots, mats and molds plus couple of D and C items (most of the D and c items are not worth producing). From the majestic set I bought only the gloves - the recipe is too expensive to risk 2 failures in a row. Everything I produced buyng all the mats and using dwarf manufactures. And of course all the B stuff because there are 100% recipes so no failures. I rarely play actively more then 2-3 hours per day but I rarely ever log off - all the times when I am not playng at least one - most of the time 2 toons - are selling or buying stuff. The mats are not coming from the spoiler - you must be a bot to spoil 7,000 a. bones and such and the weapons and heavy armors need tremendous amount of basic mats. So I buy all the mats in the market at market prices and sell the stuff at reasonable prices too. So I make quick turnover and in a long way make much more money then the ppl which try to sell something for 2kk more expensive and waste a week for this. Or buy 7,000 animal bones for 2 weeks but for 1000a each instead of buying it for seconds for 1300. This way they pay 2kk less but waste 2 weeks for this.
As for the spioiler-right now is useless - at those lvl - late B grade there is nothing really good to be spoiled. Mostly cheap zubai recipes which no one wans:-(
If u grind you dont make money at least untill lvl 61
Wont say that. If you dont use shots and hunt with a wolf instead you will lvl slower but make money.
If you also use the manor sys you will make much more money.
If you want/need to use shots do AOE groups you will make money.
Sure by only go out and hunt you wont get much, plan better do quests hunt mobs for spellbooks you will also earn money.
From lvl 20-30 you can easly make 10 mil with manor alone.
It depends how u gind.
@ handel
Not everyone has 2 accounts to buy and sell.
Having 2 accounts with one selling only is a huge advantage over ppl with only 1 acc.
Same goes for hunting. If you always have proper buffs you will use less soulshots or even without soulshots kill a lot faster then someone that plays alone without buffs so you will generate more adena and get more exp in that 2 hours booth play. Keep also in mind you play on high population server that kind of tactic might not work that well on a low pop server.
Also i still beleave buying low selling for higher increases prices only. Especialy for mats. Due the bad droprates and especialy the spoil rates its hard to earn enoght mats for all crafts you want to do. The manor helps but because of the crappy system with buyback and almost impossible to trade in the "good reward" seeds. It only helps very few people ( and most of them only sell the mats overpriced after).
@ handel
Not everyone has 2 accounts to buy and sell.
Having 2 accounts with one selling only is a huge advantage over ppl with only 1 acc.
Same goes for hunting. If you always have proper buffs you will use less soulshots or even without soulshots kill a lot faster then someone that plays alone without buffs so you will generate more adena and get more exp in that 2 hours booth play. Keep also in mind you play on high population server that kind of tactic might not work that well on a low pop server.
True about the 2 accounts but this doubles the adena I need - 1 majestic robe set plus 1 heavy armor set, 2 weapons, 2 sets of jewels, shots for 2... So instead of 100kk for 1 maj set I need 200kk for the armor only etc... As for the buffs it is true - but I have a bishop not buffer. She has some buffs but the difference is quite big when I get some proper buffs. And most of the time I don't. Actually somewhere in the forum Charmille said this is the worst way to lvl up.
And I do not sell high - for the simple reason it usually takes too much time. I try to get a fair price or maybe a slightly lower price but not too much lower - I want a reasonable profit margin.
As for the spioiler-right now is useless - at those lvl - late B grade there is nothing really good to be spoiled. Mostly cheap zubai recipes which no one wans:-(
End of apostate, bones. For Zubei recipes, pm Valien, he might want to buy them and all parts you might come across.
As to managing to get a full set of Maj in 3 months, meh thats not hard if you actually know what to do. From what you've said, it's fairly apparent that you do understand the basics, so I for one dont think you've done anything impossible. Especially with the current, inflated Teon prices, it is easy to make hundreds of millions in a short time by crafting the _right_ items.
As to buying mats with a higher price... it is a double edged sword. Yes, you will get the item faster, manage to sell faster etc. BUT, it can also drive prices up as more and more people note the higher price and raise their sellshop prices too. Which in turn forces you to up your price. I'd be careful as to how high over the standard price you go.
Most of the gear we have is self-made - using the dwarven manufactures.
Thats what i do most of the time too ;) I would say 99% of my B and A is selfcrafted. maybe 80% of my c too.
Everything I produced buyng all the mats and using dwarf manufactures.
I rarely buy mats i have 2 spoilers and lowbie chars for a reason.
you must be a bot to spoil 7,000 a. bones and such and the weapons and heavy armors need tremendous amount of basic mats.
Very stupid sentance. To spoil 7k bones you need to go to catacomb of apostate and spoil there a few hours in the first rooms. At later lvls there are also catacomb of the witch and necropolis of devoion but the spoil rate is better when dawn has won at that catas due the mobs.
With proper help and a good manor buyback you can also get 7k bones in 2-3 hours with manor.
By the way i had my complete top B grade ready for my BH before i hitted 52 and there was no manor to use for the most part ( not sure if it was implented already when Heine/Indrail was added ).
You can spoil most mats only recipes and key parts you have to buy.
As for the spioiler-right now is useless - at those lvl - late B grade there is nothing really good to be spoiled. Mostly cheap zubai recipes which no one wans:-(
Go to catacomb of the witch or necro of devotion if you have buffs and healer or party else go to fields of massacre spoil the undead there. If you do the kalis coins quest go spoil fallen orcs. Late B levels are still great for a spoiler.
As for the spioiler-right now is useless - at those lvl - late B grade there is nothing really good to be spoiled. Mostly cheap zubai recipes which no one wans:-(
As to buying mats with a higher price... it is a double edged sword. Yes, you will get the item faster, manage to sell faster etc. BUT, it can also drive prices up as more and more people note the higher price and raise their sellshop prices too. Which in turn forces you to up your price. I'd be careful as to how high over the standard price you go.
I buy them on market prices but avoid buyng on everinflated prices except if not small quantity. For example right now the shops sell bones from 1300 up to 1500. I am not that stupid to buy 7000 bones on 1500 when can search a little and get them at 1300-1350 at most. In a long turn it is self-regulating process (I hope) - at least on servers with high population. And the market prices always fluctuate - when the prices of some mats go through the roof more ppl (and bots) are starting to farm them so they quickly drop (as happened with the varnish recently).
Having 2 accounts with one selling only is a huge advantage over ppl with only 1 acc.
perhaps.
but with PoCF you can increase sell items from 4, to 5, to 6, to 7.
with a main and a alt dwarf (lets say WS). You can increase your buy/sell compacity.
Also there is a kind of comradeship between one dwarf, and another dwarf. Say I ask a dwarf with my elf if he has a mat, he'll probably say no, but if you ask with your dwarf he'll probably say yes.
I've set shops with my dwarf and picked up items with in 20 minutes. I've set shops with my Elf, and found it takes longer.
I think its also better to be clan'd. Less people are put off by a dwarf thats clan'd, if your clan-less the odds of you being a farmer dwarf goes up.
But the rates on drops, and spoils is insanely low. whats worst is the places that you spoil one thing, out lvl it then more to the next area only to find it is spoiling the exact same thing you where spoiling 10 lvls before.
Having 2 accounts with one selling only is a huge advantage over ppl with only 1 acc.
perhaps.
but with PoCF you can increase sell items from 4, to 5, to 6, to 7.
with a main and a alt dwarf (lets say WS). You can increase your buy/sell compacity.
Sure i could put more items for sale but i still want to play the game and in that time i cant sell anything. With two accounts you could go out hunt with one char and still leave the other account for buying or selling.
Also the two account holder can also raise the item slots.....
It has always been my hope that high level Warsmiths would get a "transmute element/convert mat" skill, which would allow you to change one basic mat into another, even if the conversion rate wasn't exactly 1 to 1. This came to mind when I realized that I had no problem getting stem drops, no matter what level I was or where I happened to be hunting. Enria, Asofe, Thons on the other hand? Forget about it.
Would be nice to convert that 10K stem into something that I could actually use to craft. Selling the stem and then buying the other mats doesn't work so well. Seems everyone else has 10K stem, too. :eek:
Yes, the drop tables are insane, but what bothers me most about it is the impact on the market. You'd think that an S grade player who was getting nothing but A grade materials would gladly send these items to the market to sell. But that doesn't happen nearly enough to make a positive impact on the market. These days there are still scarcities of weapons and armor mats, because most players simply don't see it as worth their time, or that small spike in their energy bill, to put those mats in an all day sell shop.
you must be a bot to spoil 7,000 a. bones and such and the weapons and heavy armors need tremendous amount of basic mats.
Very stupid sentance. To spoil 7k bones you need to go to catacomb of apostate and spoil there a few hours in the first rooms. At later lvls there are also catacomb of the witch and necropolis of devoion but the spoil rate is better when dawn has won at that catas due the mobs.
With proper help and a good manor buyback you can also get 7k bones in 2-3 hours with manor.
I guess you used the bugged calculator fro the dwarf quest:-)
Lets say you get 5 a.bones from a mob. So you must kill 1400 mobs at least. And not every mob spoils a.bones so you must kill at least 2 times more. I still have to see a dwarf who can kill 2-3k mobs all 4x for "few" hours. Of course you can make great party and several ppl to kill the mobs and you only to spoil... but those 7000k bones will be split between all the party members so to get your 7,000 bones you will have to kill much more then 1400 mobs...
And if you able to kill that much mobs in this short time why spoil those lowly bones? Just kill few thousands mobs and get a dama recipe or several other expensive recipes...
Playing the market as you have is to be commended, not everyone can do it. For the average player that may only have 2-3 hrs per day to play, they can not spend half of that time crafting items to resell in hopes of making adena. In fact for many of the sub A graders in most circumstances it is not worth the effort to try and "buy" the extra materials you need for an Item and craft it.
Market prices for those extra items are so high that you would benefit more by saving those items for an A grade or S grade craft.
The ability to play the market and acquire through financial means the items you require I believe is the whole basis for that fact that NCNA needs to re-adjust the current drop tables.
Yes, the drop tables are insane, but what bothers me most about it is the impact on the market. You'd think that an S grade player who was getting nothing but A grade materials would gladly send these items to the market to sell. But that doesn't happen nearly enough to make a positive impact on the market. These days there are still scarcities of weapons and armor mats, because most players simply don't see it as worth their time, or that small spike in their energy bill, to put those mats in an all day sell shop.
the problem is mats are so expensive to get I wont sell mine and put them into the market. I'll horde them, wait till I have enough to craft what I need.
thats whats fundamentally wrong with the market/drop/spoil/manor tables. when you need 6k A. bone, 8k varnish, etc etc to craft 1 item, you will horde all your drops.
Most don't buy from sell shops unless they need that 1 or 2 item they are missing.
I'm the type of person who enjoys having a BH in party cause they can help spoil nice things (specially in rift). if a BH can spoil anything and put it into my inventory thats highly welcome in my book.
but I agree with the items let a dwarf (I think imo BH) dismantle items into their base mats. IE: metal hardeners.
This came to mind when I realized that I had no problem getting stem drops, no matter what level I was or where I happened to be hunting. Enria, Asofe, Thons on the other hand? Forget about it.
Seems everyone else has 10K stem, too. :eek:
You are joking, right? I made my first several kk exactly from stem. The stem itself is not that expensive but braided hemp and the compound braid are needed in tons of armors and the stemm is one of the most valuable mats. I always buy when I find cheap compound braid and braided hemp and almost never have enough.
As for Asofe and thons - they are most easily manored - they are almost always available. As for the enria - it may seem expensice and rare but right now it is cheaper then just 2 CBP...
As for the guys (and gals) wich non-stop say "You have 2 accounts, you have 2 account, you have 2 account..."
Yes, 2 accounts means 2 toons can buy/sell at the same time but it also means I NEED 2 TIMES more adena.
As for those which say "you need many hours to play the market..." - it may be true for large complex items but setting a shop to buy and sell takes a seconds, not hours. As I said - when you stop playing just open a shop to sell or buy something, minimize the game and simply forget about it untill you decide to play again.
I think it has been pointed out many times that economy would be destroyed without farmers. Imagine if you don't have the ability to buy what you need and you have to grind enlessly for any rec and any mat you need. Now that would make many people leave the game or switch servers.
On the other hand maybe if the farmers were gone, then NCsoft would actually think of changing the drop tables. These drop tables and no farmers=lineage dead.
This came to mind when I realized that I had no problem getting stem drops, no matter what level I was or where I happened to be hunting. Enria, Asofe, Thons on the other hand? Forget about it.
Seems everyone else has 10K stem, too. :eek:
You are joking, right? I made my first several kk exactly from stem. The stem itself is not that expensive but braided hemp and the compound braid are needed in tons of armors and the stemm is one of the most valuable mats. I always buy when I find cheap compound braid and braided hemp and almost never have enough.
As for Asofe and thons - they are most easily manored - they are almost always available. As for the enria - it may seem expensice and rare but right now it is cheaper then just 2 CBP...
As for the guys (and gals) wich non-stop say "You have 2 accounts, you have 2 account, you have 2 account..."
Yes, 2 accounts means 2 toons can buy/sell at the same time but it also means I NEED 2 TIMES more adena.
As for those which say "you need many hours to play the market..." - it may be true for large complex items but setting a shop to buy and sell takes a seconds, not hours. As I said - when you stop playing just open a shop to sell or buy something, minimize the game and simply forget about it untill you decide to play again.
On average, I use 10k+ Stem a week.
PS. guys and gals, try equipping a clan and 5 accounts of yours+bro. Helps with understanding the game more.
I think it has been pointed out many times that economy would be destroyed without farmers. Imagine if you don't have the ability to buy what you need and you have to grind enlessly for any rec and any mat you need. Now that would make many people leave the game or switch servers.
On the other hand maybe if the farmers were gone, then NCsoft would actually think of changing the drop tables. These drop tables and no farmers=lineage dead.
Before the world was controlled by farmers...there were actual, honest to God, player controlled dwarves that were **** near server celebrities because they were essential. Yeah, that was a long time ago.
I knew BH's that were in demand because they were the people you contacted to get materials for your insanely powerful C-grade craft.
The most "interesting" information in this thread comes from those explaining "how it's done".
They offer advice from the simple to the esoteric, straight-forward to the convoluted, and I can't fault the advice they give, except for one part:
It's a game, it's meant to be fun.
Getting 2 accounts, spending 6 hours farming this mat, 8 hours farming that, then 72 hours of shop time to sell this other stuff so I can buy these other parts in order to make a single sword?
Not fun.
In this fantasy world of Aden, I am not an economist. I am not a Blacksmith. Nor am I a Master Armoursmith, Bowyer, Fletcher, Carpenter, Tailor, or any sort of craftsman.
In the world of Aden, I am what every NPC isn't: I am an Adventurer. While you, Village NPC, hide behind the stone walls of your great city, my companions and I are the ones who rise to the occasion, step forward, and do battle with the orcs/giants/trolls/wyverns/dragons/fire elementals/wild antelope or whatever evil menace it is that threatens your homes and families.
So cut me some slack, Mr. Blacksmith, and how about you craft me a nice sword to replace the one I'm going to break defending you and your fat-***** family from rampaging bandersnatch?
Oh, the High Priest asked me to defend the town from Evil? Well, here's the head of Head Badguy... how about a nice magic shield, Your Eminence, or we can put this head right back where we found it. Bad guys Rez just as easily, you know?
...
The point is, for an "adventure" game, there's actually very little adventuring going on, and even more rarely is adventuring actually rewarding.
I guess you used the bugged calculator fro the dwarf quest:-)
Lets say you get 5 a.bones from a mob. So you must kill 1400 mobs at least. And not every mob spoils a.bones so you must kill at least 2 times more. I still have to see a dwarf who can kill 2-3k mobs all 4x for "few" hours. Of course you can make great party and several ppl to kill the mobs and you only to spoil... but those 7000k bones will be split between all the party members so to get your 7,000 bones you will have to kill much more then 1400 mobs...
And if you able to kill that much mobs in this short time why spoil those lowly bones? Just kill few thousands mobs and get a dama recipe or several other expensive recipes...
Hey Handel not calculator from my personal experience.
I did not say you will end up with 7k bones i said you would spoil em. In apostate u get 1-10 bones per mob that drops seal stones also mold hardeners and +3 str dyes.
In cata of the witch and necro of devotion the dark mobs that drop seals spoil 1-15 bones so if dawn wins its one week only that mobs.
Its also easy to kill the mobs fast if u have the right setup. Even you could do it if u had a warcryer for buffs and a great wolf. If not add in one friend that helps if u need only the bones make some kind of deal with him you get all bones he all hardeners or something like that.
As for the recipe i rather take guraneed bones spoils then a not guranteed rare dama rec drop.
I tryed with 2 chars to get a lance 100% rec now on the 3rd and never got it yet. However the bones helped me a lot on crafts.
And for your 2 accounts 2 times adena an that stuff.
I got tons of equip and could also still craft more if i had more basic mats. In fact i also helped most of my clanmemebers to get equip ( D, C, B and A ) too and i never charged something for it.
Yes i play the game more for equipment for collecting and crafting and not for exp and money.
To be honest the game would bore me to death if i had no new projects to do or goals to aquire.
I think it has been pointed out many times that economy would be destroyed without farmers. Imagine if you don't have the ability to buy what you need and you have to grind enlessly for any rec and any mat you need. Now that would make many people leave the game or switch servers.
On the other hand maybe if the farmers were gone, then NCsoft would actually think of changing the drop tables. These drop tables and no farmers=lineage dead.
Before the world was controlled by farmers...there were actual, honest to God, player controlled dwarves that were **** near server celebrities because they were essential. Yeah, that was a long time ago.
I knew BH's that were in demand because they were the people you contacted to get materials for your insanely powerful C-grade craft.
Yup i remember my brother in prelude or c1 was one of the highest Bounty Hunters on Gustin he sold full plate armor parts for 1 mil each he spoiled in giants cave i think .......... well that was 3-3,5 years ago.
Wont say that. If you dont use shots and hunt with a wolf instead you will lvl slower but make money.
O yes if u wanna waste 3 months to get lvl 40 of course its viable, and also u will still need to waste money on pots, food wolf shots, ress scrolls, cause the wolf if a pice of [censored] fighter until lvl 55, and of course in that terms it will not get the top armor. Go fight blue mobs for crap drops and very low xp, and u can maybe do 6kk to buy your low lvl gear when u reach lvl 40.
If you also use the manor sys you will make much more money.
iDunno in your server but manor in mine is ruled by bots, i manor as much as i can, with the rest of the seed i can buy cause the good ones are taken by the bots, and guess what even with that most of the time took me 1 week to sell the seeds. Manor wold be nice if get not owned by bots.
If you want/need to use shots do AOE groups you will make money.
I do it most of the time and really dont make that difference.
Sure by only go out and hunt you wont get much, plan better do quests hunt mobs for spellbooks you will also earn money.
From lvl 20-30 you can easly make 10 mil with manor alone.
It depends how u gind.
I do quest, to be honest i made most of them until lvl 40 with my first toon thinking they would be funny and give me some good reward, i do manor, no i dont sell books cause i prefer to keep them to help my friends, the only thing i dont have time to do is waste my few time crafting something and sit my [censored] 48h to sell it .
I dont wanna be rich, i dont aggre also that someone must be able to get the top equips at the time he changes level, but how thing are today is ridiculous. None of the solutions u guys told are enough to most of the normal payers that pay to have fun. If some people like to stay buying and selling this or that, i don care, i wish this kinda people win toons of money cause they play for that, but i need to able to choose the adventures path as the other guy said and get at least decent equipment to continue have fun. Its unfair that the only path to get something is making a slave dorf 24h buying and selling things or be penalized doing in 10 years what can be done in 1.
SOmeone said that have two accounts waste double of the money and is not a unfair davantage. Please dont make this kinda joke, you waste almost nothing to keep a dorf in town or a buffer.
Ill say the last time, people cant continue be penalized to dont wanna be a proffesional merchant or dont wanting to rise a dorf. Quest must be enough to the adventures, there are lots of professional adventures, that can agree in make a 24h quest if he can have a decent reward. Manor needs to be improved so normal players can look to it as a good thing and not a waste of time.
see, there are about 10 seeds worth doing in mass quantities at any given time. some servers have varnish up over 1500, and bones for the same or better. those seeds will sell faster than britney spears can check in and out of rehab.
its not merely the farmers loking to profit from manoring, with that kind of prices it should be clear to anyone with half a manoring bone in their body that those rewards are well worth the effort. hence its IMMEDIATE sellout.
The most "interesting" information in this thread comes from those explaining "how it's done".
They offer advice from the simple to the esoteric, straight-forward to the convoluted, and I can't fault the advice they give, except for one part:
It's a game, it's meant to be fun.
Getting 2 accounts, spending 6 hours farming this mat, 8 hours farming that, then 72 hours of shop time to sell this other stuff so I can buy these other parts in order to make a single sword?
Not fun.
In this fantasy world of Aden, I am not an economist. I am not a Blacksmith. Nor am I a Master Armoursmith, Bowyer, Fletcher, Carpenter, Tailor, or any sort of craftsman.
In the world of Aden, I am what every NPC isn't: I am an Adventurer. While you, Village NPC, hide behind the stone walls of your great city, my companions and I are the ones who rise to the occasion, step forward, and do battle with the orcs/giants/trolls/wyverns/dragons/fire elementals/wild antelope or whatever evil menace it is that threatens your homes and families.
So cut me some slack, Mr. Blacksmith, and how about you craft me a nice sword to replace the one I'm going to break defending you and your fat-***** family from rampaging bandersnatch?
Oh, the High Priest asked me to defend the town from Evil? Well, here's the head of Head Badguy... how about a nice magic shield, Your Eminence, or we can put this head right back where we found it. Bad guys Rez just as easily, you know?
...
The point is, for an "adventure" game, there's actually very little adventuring going on, and even more rarely is adventuring actually rewarding.
It seems you will be better playing CS:-)
When I started the game the briga helms were relatively cheap. Then suddenly the price surged to 5kk and then the fun started... What is the fun? Lot of nukers and archers were coming Plains of Lizardmen to hunt for a briga help. And how they did? They run accros the plains killing 10 lizardmen overlords with 10 nukes then SOEd disapponited and grumbling! So much affort and not a single help! The drop tables suck!
What I don't understand why those who complain non-stop about the low drops don't hust move to soem private server? They are free and you can get as much drop as you need? But nah - they stay at the server with the lowest drops, pay for it and non-stop complain.
The most "interesting" information in this thread comes from those explaining "how it's done".
They offer advice from the simple to the esoteric, straight-forward to the convoluted, and I can't fault the advice they give, except for one part:
It's a game, it's meant to be fun.
Getting 2 accounts, spending 6 hours farming this mat, 8 hours farming that, then 72 hours of shop time to sell this other stuff so I can buy these other parts in order to make a single sword?
Not fun.
In this fantasy world of Aden, I am not an economist. I am not a Blacksmith. Nor am I a Master Armoursmith, Bowyer, Fletcher, Carpenter, Tailor, or any sort of craftsman.
In the world of Aden, I am what every NPC isn't: I am an Adventurer. While you, Village NPC, hide behind the stone walls of your great city, my companions and I are the ones who rise to the occasion, step forward, and do battle with the orcs/giants/trolls/wyverns/dragons/fire elementals/wild antelope or whatever evil menace it is that threatens your homes and families.
So cut me some slack, Mr. Blacksmith, and how about you craft me a nice sword to replace the one I'm going to break defending you and your fat-***** family from rampaging bandersnatch?
Oh, the High Priest asked me to defend the town from Evil? Well, here's the head of Head Badguy... how about a nice magic shield, Your Eminence, or we can put this head right back where we found it. Bad guys Rez just as easily, you know?
...
The point is, for an "adventure" game, there's actually very little adventuring going on, and even more rarely is adventuring actually rewarding.
It seems you will be better playing CS:-)
When I started the game the briga helms were relatively cheap. Then suddenly the price surged to 5kk and then the fun started... What is the fun? Lot of nukers and archers were coming Plains of Lizardmen to hunt for a briga help. And how they did? They run accros the plains killing 10 lizardmen overlords with 10 nukes then SOEd disapponited and grumbling! So much affort and not a single help! The drop tables suck!
What I don't understand why those who complain non-stop about the low drops don't hust move to soem private server? They are free and you can get as much drop as you need? But nah - they stay at the server with the lowest drops, pay for it and non-stop complain.
Werd!
Now to a rather dumb question I have: the crop buyback happens daily at 8 pm, right? What time zone? I guess I'm too lazy to research it on my own :D
When I started the game the briga helms were relatively cheap. Then suddenly the price surged to 5kk and then the fun started... What is the fun? Lot of nukers and archers were coming Plains of Lizardmen to hunt for a briga help. And how they did? They run accros the plains killing 10 lizardmen overlords with 10 nukes then SOEd disapponited and grumbling! So much affort and not a single help! The drop tables suck!
What I don't understand why those who complain non-stop about the low drops don't hust move to soem private server? They are free and you can get as much drop as you need? But nah - they stay at the server with the lowest drops, pay for it and non-stop complain.
Well, the other option is that we quit and the rest of you won't have any game at all. This one is already giving the Zapper a look.
For my adventuring tastes, when I want to play a game with real quests and appropriate rewards, where raid bosses and the like actually make sense to the storyline... I play EQ2.
When I want fast-paced, fun PvP, with all the risk of item and EXP loss, I play Shaiya.
When I want to associate with a few long-time friends, check out some decent graphics and giggle at elf panties? I play Lineage2. I also play for the forums, it's amusing to see how worked up some people get.
Cause things on privates dont work. As i said its not cause the xp rate, its not cause of the money drops, its cause the only way to get what we want is the boring as hell way. I dont wanna be a pro merchant nor a pro farmer, i wanna be a pro in lots of other things but not at as market bot.
When I want to associate with a few long-time friends, check out some decent graphics and giggle at elf panties? I play Lineage2. I also play for the forums, it's amusing to see how worked up some people get.
You pay 15+ bucks a month for a graphic chat program and to post on a forum. Man I wish I had your kind of money. I know many cheeper ways to chat with my friends.
My remark. The initial game design did not take into account any external factors like RMT, pro farmers (why should they anyway?). But when these 2 factors started affecting the game.
Sorry got to stop you right there. Adena sales for Lineage 2 have been around since it announced that after beta characters werent getting wiped, and before that....mmo item and account sales have been going stronger and stronger since 1999, when UO and EQ items and accounts started flooding ebay. If you think ingame sales or 3rd party apps are something new then you're diluting yourself and sadly mistaken (no offense ofc). As long as people are willing to buy, there is always going to be a market, and there's always going to be a group that doesnt want to start at the begining and work through the game...so sorry Jacent, there will always be a market for ingame items and services...its a fact you have to deal with :(
These things have been around long before L2 was in development, and they'll be in every game long after L2 is gone. Most of the outbursts come from how 3rd party apps/items sales are handled by the game company itself....lineage has and had the most "in your face" botters by far...and alot of people [censored] because it doesnt seem like the gm staff does anything about it.
As far as drops go, it hasn't been the same since c3 came out, sure the xp boost was awesome, but the nerf in drops just flat out sucked. But then again, the drops in post c3 weren't that great to begin with but compared to now? ...just wow? :D
I didn't say that these didn't exist. I said that you shouldn't expect a company to design a game taking them into account. It would be like legitimising them.
On the other hand, when the influence of these factors became evident, they should have done something about it. Now, it's too late.
I dont wanna be a pro merchant nor a pro farmer, i wanna be a pro in lots of other things but not at as market bot.
You cannot ignore half the game and expect to do as well as people who play all of it.
Im not ignoring nobody, as i said u can still be able to be a market bot if u want, and probably you will get the better equips faster and a lot more adena doing that. Thats fair for me, what i want is a fair play for who that dont wanna choose this pass. Time is precious, and the time i go sell things and farming its the time i cant xp cause i can only pay one account. Now what i do is grind 3 h and do market 1h for example. When i cant grind or i dont want for some reason i go craft my shots/equipment and setup my stores to sell what i got at lower prices to sell faster, cause i wanna be able to xp soon and not stay sit in there for 24h.
Ok, what was it exactly? (Haven't played prelude, only C1 and didn't notice it, but i guess it wasn't that big).
Just my own experience:
at the beginning: 6 months to get DE with summon to lvl 30
recently: lvl 40 in less than 2 months (with newbies buffs till 24)
And I haven't tried yet with newbies buffs till lvl 39 ...
I think it's the increase in bonuses for newbies such as the buffs and newb weapons and new rewards such as newb shots and shadow weapons that made the difference, not an actual increase in exp returned per mob. Maybe.
Wont say that. If you dont use shots and hunt with a wolf instead you will lvl slower but make money.
O yes if u wanna waste 3 months to get lvl 40 of course its viable, and also u will still need to waste money on pots, food wolf shots, ress scrolls, cause the wolf if a pice of [censored] fighter until lvl 55, and of course in that terms it will not get the top armor. Go fight blue mobs for crap drops and very low xp, and u can maybe do 6kk to buy your low lvl gear when u reach lvl 40.
Seems you never hunted with a wolf or did not try lately.
The wolf in top gear ( cost 4 mil max ) will have at lvl 28 more patk then your char will have with 2nd best d weapon not overenchanted.
Wolf food cost much less then spamming Dss and if i say no shots used this includes pet shots. With new newbiebuffs extended you will have the most time a heal cubic that heals partymembers and pets too so for what i need to use pots on the wolf ? The wolf should not even take damage anyway.
The wolf takes 10% exp from you i dont see that would take that much longer then hunting without till 40.
As for the bad fighter if you think so.... I had a lvl 60 normal wolf and was quite pleased with him. The only flaw was his mdef and pdef was not that big so after 3 mage damage hits or 3-4 skill hits he was dead however he could take 8-10 normal hits from mobs the same lvl as him.
If you also use the manor sys you will make much more money.
iDunno in your server but manor in mine is ruled by bots, i manor as much as i can, with the rest of the seed i can buy cause the good ones are taken by the bots, and guess what even with that most of the time took me 1 week to sell the seeds. Manor wold be nice if get not owned by bots.
Yes its hard often to trade in crops but normaly low lvl or not so profitable seeds are easy to trade in. On my server i have no problems to get varnish and ori ore and you can do them at lvl 20 with a big crop gain per seed.
If you want/need to use shots do AOE groups you will make money.
I do it most of the time and really dont make that difference.
Well i do with one more dwarf and i save a lot ss, gain faster exp and get even more adena because of the sealstones out.
If you dont know how to make money out of sealstones its not my problem.
Sure by only go out and hunt you wont get much, plan better do quests hunt mobs for spellbooks you will also earn money.
From lvl 20-30 you can easly make 10 mil with manor alone.
It depends how u gind.
I do quest, to be honest i made most of them until lvl 40 with my first toon thinking they would be funny and give me some good reward, i do manor, no i dont sell books cause i prefer to keep them to help my friends, the only thing i dont have time to do is waste my few time crafting something and sit my [censored] 48h to sell it .
As i said before do good quests there are really some that are worth doin a lot.
As for crafting its a good way to get equipment cheap. Not to sell to use it. If i bought all my equip i would have nothing.
I dont wanna be rich, i dont aggre also that someone must be able to get the top equips at the time he changes level, but how thing are today is ridiculous. None of the solutions u guys told are enough to most of the normal payers that pay to have fun. If some people like to stay buying and selling this or that, i don care, i wish this kinda people win toons of money cause they play for that, but i need to able to choose the adventures path as the other guy said and get at least decent equipment to continue have fun. Its unfair that the only path to get something is making a slave dorf 24h buying and selling things or be penalized doing in 10 years what can be done in 1.
Im a normal player and i have fun collecting stuff, crafting and spoiling. Its also a lot more easy as it was in prelude or c1 to get items or equip.
As i said lean more about the game plan things how to get this or that item. Only logging in and go out hunt somewhere a few hours wont bring you forward.
Also i sont sell much maybe 3- 5 days overnight max in 1 month. Then again im bounty hunter i get a lot stuff i need for free with spoil.
SOmeone said that have two accounts waste double of the money and is not a unfair davantage. Please dont make this kinda joke, you waste almost nothing to keep a dorf in town or a buffer.
Ill say the last time, people cant continue be penalized to dont wanna be a proffesional merchant or dont wanting to rise a dorf. Quest must be enough to the adventures, there are lots of professional adventures, that can agree in make a 24h quest if he can have a decent reward. Manor needs to be improved so normal players can look to it as a good thing and not a waste of time.
Im all in for that drops from high lvl mobs suck they drop the same as lvl 10 mobs sometimes the lvl 10 mobs drop even more of the same item.
Also manor needs a big overhaul too.
Ok, what was it exactly? (Haven't played prelude, only C1 and didn't notice it, but i guess it wasn't that big).
Just my own experience:
at the beginning: 6 months to get DE with summon to lvl 30
recently: lvl 40 in less than 2 months (with newbies buffs till 24)
And I haven't tried yet with newbies buffs till lvl 39 ...
I think it's the increase in bonuses for newbies such as the buffs and newb weapons and new rewards such as newb shots and shadow weapons that made the difference, not an actual increase in exp returned per mob. Maybe.
Ok, what was it exactly? (Haven't played prelude, only C1 and didn't notice it, but i guess it wasn't that big).
Just my own experience:
at the beginning: 6 months to get DE with summon to lvl 30
recently: lvl 40 in less than 2 months (with newbies buffs till 24)
And I haven't tried yet with newbies buffs till lvl 39 ...
I think it's the increase in bonuses for newbies such as the buffs and newb weapons and new rewards such as newb shots and shadow weapons that made the difference, not an actual increase in exp returned per mob. Maybe.
Nope exp was raised in c2 i think.
Oh, ok, if you say so, didn't notice, can anyone guess by what ammount? :)
I think it changed with c3. Before the xp were tied to the level
of the mobs. Was almost linear. In c3 mobs got attributes and
with these attributes they also changed the xp-table.
For example doom knight used to be 55xx. Nowadays it's 88xx.
But not only the xp was increased for some mobs the xp
was reduced like the BloodyQueen. They also implemente
that you don't get an xp malus if you get mobs 5 level under
your's. First for solo-players next chronicle for groups. At
the beginning it used to be a malus if the mob is under your
level.
I can say from what i remember back then mobs gave exp depending on your lvl. Means if you gained a lvl the same mob gave less exp as before.
Later it was changed that mobs give constand exp till they turn light blue.
Could also be they changed the exp rate additional up to 20% but not sure about rates.
what i want is a fair play for who that dont wanna choose this pass. Time is precious, and the time i go sell things and farming its the time i cant xp
It actually is fair, nobody can generate more play time for you. Those who play more have an advantage over those who play less, all other things being equal.
Your game rewards are proportional to the effort you put in. By your logic, someone should provide for those who, for whatever reason, have less time available for L2, so that they, too, can have the same rewards as those who play more.
I think your problem begins with the (false IMO) belief that you should be able to follow the "adventurer's path" and be relatively OK in the game world.
Well, it does not work that way. Your lack of free time does not in any way make "crafting something and sit [..] 48h to sell it" a waste of time.
In short, you can't demand a rule change because the rules don't suit you :)
The exp on outdoor mobs (not in dungeons and catas) was raised 20%.
I can say from what i remember back then mobs gave exp depending on your lvl. Means if you gained a lvl the same mob gave less exp as before.
Later it was changed that mobs give constand exp till they turn light blue.
Could also be they changed the exp rate additional up to 20% but not sure about rates.
I think your problem begins with the (false IMO) belief that you should be able to follow the "adventurer's path" and be relatively OK in the game world.
Why i cant be ok why that? Its the normal path for all most of the gameworld. If i cant play lots of time of course is my problem, but as long as i pay for this and i like the game, i can sugest things that will provides me and the players like me more fun in that few time.
I can say from what i remember back then mobs gave exp depending on your lvl. Means if you gained a lvl the same mob gave less exp as before.
No & no
Im pretty sure about that. Sure my memorys could be false a little then it was still like when the mob did turn green u got less exp now exp stays the same from white to green at light blue u start to get less.
The exp on outdoor mobs (not in dungeons and catas) was raised 20%.
I can say from what i remember back then mobs gave exp depending on your lvl. Means if you gained a lvl the same mob gave less exp as before.
Later it was changed that mobs give constand exp till they turn light blue.
Could also be they changed the exp rate additional up to 20% but not sure about rates.
No & no
The xp on "field type" mobs WAS increased. IIRC it was a mid-chronicle update, so you won't find it in any of the official chronicle patch notes here.
As I can see from you signature you are not pro in anything. And this is not the drp tables fault. It is your only falut - when the game starts to get a little harder and challenging you reroll another toon and start from the begining.
As I can see from you signature you are not pro in anything. And this is not the drp tables fault. It is your only falut - when the game starts to get a little harder and challenging you reroll another toon and start from the begining.
Dont talk [censored] about me, you dont know me. You wanna know why i have so many toons? Just cause i want to make more clanpoints at academy for my clan. I made them to help my friends get your precious materials, books, recipes. I make my dorf to help my clannies crafting shots and equips for a very low price. I never roled a toon cause the last one becames boring or hard, my main is a TK and is my current active toon, do u have the guts to rise one? So dont talk [censored] when u dont know nothing about the person. I was not insulting nobody until now, so if u dont have decent words for this polite topic please shut up.
I can say from what i remember back then mobs gave exp depending on your lvl. Means if you gained a lvl the same mob gave less exp as before.
No & no
Im pretty sure about that. Sure my memorys could be false a little then it was still like when the mob did turn green u got less exp now exp stays the same from white to green at light blue u start to get less.
All mobs have a defined amount of XP to give. You will always get the same XP from the same mob, knowing that :
- When the mob is blue (high level difference), you will get a malus
- When in party you will have a party bonus according to the number of party members
- XP will be divided among the party members in proportion of their levels
- XP will be divided between damage dealer parties or players outside party in proportion of the damage dealt
The XP for that mob will always be the same, only the bonus/malus change.
I can say from what i remember back then mobs gave exp depending on your lvl. Means if you gained a lvl the same mob gave less exp as before.
No & no
Im pretty sure about that. Sure my memorys could be false a little then it was still like when the mob did turn green u got less exp now exp stays the same from white to green at light blue u start to get less.
All mobs have a defined amount of XP to give. You will always get the same XP from the same mob, knowing that :
- When the mob is blue (high level difference), you will get a malus
- When in party you will have a party bonus according to the number of party members
- XP will be divided among the party members in proportion of their levels
- XP will be divided between damage dealer parties or players outside party in proportion of the damage dealt
The XP for that mob will always be the same, only the bonus/malus change.
Try to read all posts.'and dont tell me how things are now.
Also i was not talking about how much mobs give i was talking about how much exp i received.
Back in prelude im pretty sure u got less exp from the same mob as soon you did lvlup 1 lvl.
Its fact that a lot exp changes where made since then.
Changes include more exp for field mobs, more bonus exp for partys, change of receiving full exp till the mob turns light blue are only a few i remember.
for Prelude and CT1 there was that one book...also you could
take this information out of the files or how do you think [censored]
gets his info ;)
like i said back these days you could say level of mob x C xp = xp
even the def of the mob was linear. You hit the mobs with the
same level with the exact same damage.
All that was changed later, i think with c3. I know there was
once the rumor going around about an xp-boost on field-mobs
It was just nonsense.
Hell yeah tnx for the tip i almost forgot the offical prima guide that was made with help of NC back then.
There is also the exp modifer explained how it was in prelude and c1:
"When u kill a creature that has a lower level than yours, your rewards go down. For each level your above the creature, you loose 9% of the total reward. Both EXP and SP are round down, so that if you kill a creature even one level below yours, your giving up at least 1 sp. "
They have also the party bonus in it was 7% bonus per party member extra. But it was lvl dependant if someone was lvl 6 and the other was lvl 4 the lvl 6 got 60% of the total exp while the lvl 4 got only 40 %.
Its explained on page 15. If you want to check and that prooves what i did say before.
Dont know if its allowed to take a screenshot and post it here thought.
Why i cant be ok why that? Its the normal path for all most of the gameworld. If i cant play lots of time of course is my problem, but as long as i pay for this and i like the game, i can sugest things that will provides me and the players like me more fun in that few time.
Terry, however long you can play is not relevant, it only affects the total time you need to achieve something.
If you play less than me, I will advance faster than you, no matter what the rates are. With more drops you will get your dama faster than you do now, but so will I. Eventually I will have more damas than you and soon you will be complaining why I have a dama+10 and you don't - and it will all repeat.
Your basic issue comes not from the drop rates but from your limited free time, about which neither me nor anybody else can do anything. You play less so you cannot get more: it's as simple as that.
I have been reading this topic for two days now and was unable to reply on it.
I agree that both the spoil and drop tables are kind of rubbish. And because I played last night for the first time in 7days again I checked my own drops while in party at ToI 5-7. And I agree, getting a 1/5 chance of 1 Charcoal is rubbish, especially when you are there with 6-7 other people in party sharing the drops.
I am not that concered about the full drop rates, they are insane 1/15k - 1/60k is terrible, but also keep the bots from getting tons of full drops every day. I am more concered about getting the basic mats to craft the gear. Don't start about the manor system, please. I stopped using it because turning in at the right times is just impossible. Every time I am in game arround 8PM +1GMT and in town groups of 10-30 people are gathered arround the Manor Managers on Giran, Dion and Aden town squares dropping of the good Crops and buying the good seeds. And I can't believe that 50% of these players are legit, there names don't look like legit names. Also, there are a lot of bot parties, especially in cata/necro that both Spoil + Manor to farm farm farm. Leaving what for the legit player? NONE. No empty rooms, no cheaper mats to craft your gear, and while doing this trying to make a small profit or your own cheaper then marketprice gear.
It would just be nice when drops that are now 1/5 like i.e. the Charcoal of Hallate's Inspector I mentioned earlier becomes 1/1 or 1/2. Or 2/5 (2 Charcoal every 5 kills). It's just rubbish to receive 1 mat + a small pile of adena per kill. You won't make gear with that.
Drop chances on i.e. keymats and recipes should be adjusted aswell, it's insane that I need to find a lv70+ party that is crazy enough to play for 3-5hours with me to get 1 60% Majestic Recipe in WoA. Would be nicer if stuff like that drops faster and in less high-level area's.
For spoils, the same as drops. Increase spoils with chances 1/5 to 1/1 or increase the number of received items to 2/5 i.e. keeping keymats, recipes, potions etc. at the normal rate to let people gather mats better, faster and easier. Because... isn't Lineage II about crafting and making your own gear instead of playing the market and being logged 24/7 to sell for slightly more then you bought?
edit/addition
Also it would be nice if quest rewards for quest like i.e. Plunder Thier Supplies (Aden, lv59/60) would increase in order to get more adena as reward from them. Another thing is increading the reward for quest like the one in Valley Of Saints/FotD/Frozen Lab to get more materials. Or just add more quest like these with a good QI droprate.
You really dont understand me, i dont want to get the same as you that play a lot, just want another path to get the equipments. I know that who chooses this path will get less drops,money, i cant do nothing about that. But, for example, if in a medium/hard quest people could get a good armor/wepon/jewls, im not talking about top equipment, it would be enough for who play less, people can spent all the time for example in that quest, fair enough for who dont wanna do market, craft, manor all the time. And please dont say that kinda quest exist cause they dont, all of them gives useless equipment or are so insane hard to make that it simple dont worth the time. There are tons of players in this situation, and what those people in do? have a clue?
Tanks for offering help, i would accept but i have already all i need. As some people says, have friends is better than have money :)
The game has a much different pace and outcome for those of us who play it casually.
Generally I don't agree that the game mechanics should change to 'boost' casual players.
At the same time I've said often that the same sorts of changes that have recently taken place (lowbie instanced dungeon, herb drops, extension of newbie buffs, shadow weapons, etc.) should extend beyond C-grade toward at least B-grade.
If there were a couple instanced opportunities it would certainly be of benefit to the casual players--no doubt about that.
Drop rates? Not so much to help casuals. I do think lower players should get a pay raise (a couple ways to do that).
Lowbie quest rewards (up to A-grade) could be boosted a little.
Adena drops from mobs could be boosted (at least through b-grade).
NPC shops could slightly increase non-mat buy-back (on shop sold item) prices for the NG recipes/books/and crafting pieces.
I don't think it would ruin the game if "hard leather gaiter material" buy back price went up 100a--no one is crafting it anyway.
I don't think you should be able to do a 1 hour quest and get 3,000,000 adena worth of mats or something. That sort of change wouldn't be a simple 'boost'--it would be so inflationary that the economy would have some serious reactions.
Casually playing the market + overnight WS @ lv49 isn't making the money I need to craft and buy my A-grd equip for my main for at least another 100 levels at this pace. I can't spend 50% of my play hours on playing the market and waiting to be able to manor buyback. I totally agree with Terry that for the people with less time to play it's **** hard to compete with the less-legit players and the ones who have alot of time to play the market to make profits out of it.
I.e. I am a level 61 Phantom Ranger atm, wearing Plate Leather Set + Bow Of Peril with a loaned BO Jewel set. I got my BoP at level 55 and spend time from lv35 to lv55 on getting all the mats and the adena to buy the recipe. ATM I have the goal of getting full A-grd @ level 70/71 so, within 10 levels. The exp goes steady and can't complain but the rewards while exping and the rewards of quest I do can't make a decent proft to get anywhere near my goal. Selling Zubei and C-grd Jewel keymats at NPC ain't paying that much. And selling Tallum/DC stuff in private store isn't doable either because the market is stuffed already and dropping more isn't worth making an overnight store for instead of craftshop.
Other remake (and another edit on the post);
Mats like Stone Of Purity and Coarse Bone Powder have a hugh level gap to spoil / earn them from drop. They are easily spoiled around lv40 and from 60 and up. When you're a lv50 BH you have to spend time on spoiling Animal Bone in botcrowded cata to come close to the CBP rewards you had 10 levels earlier. Same goes for Steel.
What you are saying es part of the game balance. You made an archer so you wanted to hit hard and to kill fast. This advantage must have same drawback - like not been able to collect tons of adena and to wear top gear. And you actually don't need this top gear that much. I bet you are going pretty well and are hitting hard and killing fast.
Ok, what was it exactly? (Haven't played prelude, only C1 and didn't notice it, but i guess it wasn't that big).
Just my own experience:
at the beginning: 6 months to get DE with summon to lvl 30
recently: lvl 40 in less than 2 months (with newbies buffs till 24)
And I haven't tried yet with newbies buffs till lvl 39 ...
I think it's the increase in bonuses for newbies such as the buffs and newb weapons and new rewards such as newb shots and shadow weapons that made the difference, not an actual increase in exp returned per mob. Maybe.
Nope exp was raised in c2 i think.
Yeah, and now comes the Kamael, 2+ years later, and the XP is reduced. ie: lvl 70 can get upto 12k xp per kill in FoD. lvl 76+ gets 12-13k xp per mob on IoP, lvl 78+ can't kill things 4 levels below, and the best part, Level cap will be extended to 85.
What you are saying es part of the game balance. You made an archer so you wanted to hit hard and to kill fast. This advantage must have same drawback - like not been able to collect tons of adena and to wear top gear. And you actually don't need this top gear that much. I bet you are going pretty well and are hitting hard and killing fast.
I made an archer because I don't like close combats DD's and didn't want a nuker. Killing fast? A dagger-class at the same level in Doom w/ Kris kills the mob faster with more profit then I do. Every class should be able to make the same amout of money. Hell my EE makes more money while in a party then my PR.
I'v agreed with most of your comments Illogical but you expect an archer to kill with the same economic outcome that other toons have?
Did you look at the class and weapons before you started one?
Arrows and lots of shots. There is a PRICE for that patk of 600+!
My dle is probably worth around 100m, is top A-grade one-hander, and it's patk isn't 300.
I'd respond to you that if you want the same COST then you shouldn't have any patk advantage.
Sorry to disagree but I have to. Everyone knows there is a cost associated with archers that is the highest in the game.
I'v agreed with most of your comments Illogical but you expect an archer to kill with the same economic outcome that other toons have?
Did you look at the class and weapons before you started one?
Arrows and lots of shots. There is a PRICE for that patk of 600+!
My dle is probably worth around 100m, is top A-grade one-hander, and it's patk isn't 300.
I'd respond to you that if you want the same COST then you shouldn't have any patk advantage.
Sorry to disagree but I have to. Everyone knows there is a cost associated with archers that is the highest in the game.
I am also playing a WS (lv5x) BH (lv5x) EE (lv6x) SH (lv4x) and even leveling an OrcShaman to become Overlord. With all these chars I don't make anything near the income ppl brag about of millions a day. Why not? Because I just can't spend 1-2hrs on working the market. Costs? If I buy/craft 1mil worth of SSB (approx. 15k SSB) I earn them back when I wasted all of them, the arrows I get for free from nukers who hunt VoS, otherwise I craft them myself. If I don't sell my loot (I don't sell mats, and a-grd keymats go to my WH to be sold later when none of my friends need them) I don't make a profit. Even going catacomb isn't worth it, even if I sell my SealStones/AA and Blank Scrolls afterward.
Anyway please keep in mind I wrote all with in mind that I also play an EE active and play my WS/BH weekly to gather EXP (more crafts on WS) or mats (w/ BH).
Every class should be able to make the same amout of money
This is a clear misunderstanding. A PP has practically zero upkeep, because he uses no shots to buff a party and can use his NG apprentice weapon forever. An archer with Eminence uses 10 shots per hit.
I am also playing a WS (lv5x)
I have a WS 55 and can make anywhere between 500k-700k per day just with private creation shop. It takes about 5 minutes to set it up and I can leave it 24/7 if I don't have time to do anything else.
Costs? If I buy/craft 1mil worth of SSB (approx. 15k SSB) I earn them back when I wasted all of them
With SSB you have a net profit of 13%, subject to small variations because of taxes. That means for every 1kk of raw materials, you profit 130k when you sell them. You don't need to be a market guru to do that, it's just clicks.
Obviously, 15k SSB is nothing, you should make millions of SSB if you want to make any real money. Been there, done that, bored to do anymore :)
I have a WS 55 and can make anywhere between 500k-700k per day just with private creation shop. It takes about 5 minutes to set it up and I can leave it 24/7 if I don't have time to do anything else.
See the problem is what people think you need top grade the moment you hit the level.
I didnt have full bgrade till 58, didnt have full agrade till 70. I will not have full sgrade as rich as I am till probably 77 - 78 not because I am bad with money but it takes forever to craft and build adena in this game. Full sgrade cost me probably 3 billion give or take.
See the problem is what people think you need top grade the moment you hit the level.
I hear this a lot from certain people, and it's a complete design failure both from a technical perspective as well as a method of curbing 'human nature'.
The only 'restriction' the game has on gear, is grade levels. Thus as soon as you hit the next grade level why would you NOT want to get the best weapon you can? It's basic human nature to go for the top and not intentionally gimp yourself.
Not to mention it's simple logic at work as well. D grade is 20 levels, there are 5 'tiers' of weapons in D grade, and 4 in C grade. That is a 'new' weapon ever 4 levels in D grade and every 3 levels in C grade. It's 'un'possible to 'gadually' move up those tiers in any semi-expected manner, (By 'normal' players) from the drops and income you get normally by hunting. (Ignoring manor and 'playing the market for now...)
Now since it's not possible nor desirable to waste effort in sloooowly going up the equipment scale, pretty much every player with half a brain is going to 'skip' those tiers that simply don't 'do enough' for the money and time invested.
Even way back in Prelude, this was evident. I know for a fact, that I was far from the last person to delevel multiple times from 24 to ~14 to make enough money for the best shop D grade gear, using a mix of NG weapon and whatever D grade armor drops we had. (And while you would still be sub-20 *with* D grade mastery we used that too!)
And after that, the next easiest 'upgrade' was using the Luxury shop to get C grade. And did many people go for the 'lower' gear? A few but not many! It just wasn't logical to spend so much time on gear you would spend so little time in! (Even at the low Xp rates we had back then.)
Again people would 'save up' for the better gear, knowing it would take a long time to get that next upgrade, so going for lesser gear wasn't all that common. Sure, at the very start, there were some in those intermediate grades. When everyone was in halfbaked gear and you could be in D grade at L48 and not stand out. But as the 'mass' of people leveled up, the market for 'low' gear pretty much died with it. To the point that even for those who normally would buy it, saw that it was a losing proposition.
Now combine that with some really ridiculous drop/spoils...for example, just TRY to craft a single weapon in D or C grade...you'll probably be in B grade before you can finish one! And the only way you'll make that one, is if you save all your base mats and just try for a top of C weapon, as that's the only 'tier' that has enough of a drop/spoil rate combine with a slowed XP rate to actually get everything.
Your only other realistic way to get things before then is to buy them from everyone else...but where does *that* money come from? And what do all those people selling their 1-2 key mats and piddling handlfuls of mats do for *their* gear?
And on a related note, 'lesser' gear is often harder to craft than higher level gear. (Or a combo of Luxury shop + set completing crafts.) Just try completing a set of Chain/Dwarven chain versus Full Plate...yeah the mobs are higher level, but the mats and recipes are easier to get/gather! Same goes for other items such as Adamantite Jewelry in B grade...why go for that when Black Ore tends to spoil/drop like chiclets while adamantite is about as common as a full weapon drop?
And as a kicker, why 'waste' precious base materials crafting for crystals? Or lesser gear? Adena was (and to an extent still is) easier to get than some crucial crafting materials. Who is going to bother making things like Moonstone Jewelry when it's cheaper to NPC crystals and/or buy them from the luxury shop...and if your doing that, again, why not go right for the best stuff? No need to gimp yourself with an Aquastone ring when there are Ring of Ages right there as well. (And for a cheap enough price to boot!)
So no, the problem isn't that people expect to have 'the best' gear as soon as possible. It's more an issue with the developers completely failing at designing a game for 'real people' and making 'the best gear' so much of a 'better' (or easier) deal than following some arbitrary 'gear ladder'. (And people have been playing 'skip the rungs' in Single players RPG's for *years* before this!)
And on top of all this you can slap the mid-game changes that cripple drops and spoils (and gear!) even farther. As early as C1 the dev's started reducing the gear selections at higher levels...and reducing drops (no more stacks of mats from high level mobs..now it's 1 stem...) and gimping spoils.
Just try and make a newbie dwarf. Spoil FAILS to land at an obscene rate since CT1 hit, and when it lands, mobs turn blue at such a poor rate, that it's almost useless making a spoiler. For example, from 1 to 19, I aquired 30 of each material (or less!) via spoil while at the same time I was able to manor THOUSANDS of mats at the same time. And crafting anything NG? HAH! i have yet to be able to 'spoil' enough of any NG mat to make a single item. (If I wanted to!) Higher levels are not much different. Spoils have been cut all over by massive amounts. This constant reduction in 'loot' doesn't extend the lifetime of the game it SHORTENS it!
In short, YES. The spoil (and drop) tables are currently massively broken. (HELL, even the botted farmers know this! And they don't even bother with many areas for that reason any more.) And 'expecting' top of grade gear has almost nothing to do with this.
:) honestly i like the last response, and its put very dull so the next person that tries to post an agruement might have a struggle on their hands. but in respect to the topic, i think that there's a third option...both communities need to meet half way: players need to be more active with the company they subscribe to, and, the company i.e. NCsoft needs to ACTUALLY listen to the players! has anyone thought of making a petition to actually have the middle class players (idk what middle class means i just used it to discribe the average legit players) submit questions to DEV department and then literally get answer that isn't pre-emptively prepared?
PS i'm a noob, i didn't see this thread was so long, i was actually posting to the third or fourth reply...the lengthy one.
This is a clear misunderstanding. A PP has practically zero upkeep, because he uses no shots to buff a party and can use his NG apprentice weapon forever. An archer with Eminence uses 10 shots per hit.
Greater Shield and Might use Spirit ore for casting. An archer using emi is a stupid one. Pick up a DS. Archer costs down, PP costs up. How will you solve this equation now?
This is a clear misunderstanding. A PP has practically zero upkeep, because he uses no shots to buff a party and can use his NG apprentice weapon forever. An archer with Eminence uses 10 shots per hit.
Greater Shield and Might use Spirit ore for casting. An archer using emi is a stupid one. Pick up a DS. Archer costs down, PP costs up. How will you solve this equation now?
The cost is not all that diference cause you waste a lot in pots using the DS. The coast diference is turned into a little faster lvling with the EMI. But why im saying this? thsi thread is a not about archers.
So in other words you have nothing to back your claims up? If you say something, be prepared to back it up also. So, is it all purely BS that you spew out? Seems so atm.
Charmille, Terry just complains in every thread it can find (do a search on his nick). He doens't write because he want to learn something, he just want to create an account and to get at once lvl 75 toon in full S grade and 2kkk in the bank.
And of course he lacks any patience and persistence required for this game as seen from his signature. So he wants to be a "pro" (as he wrote himself) but instead creates zillions of new toons once the leveling start to get longer.
LoL, its so funny how people like to flame others... handel as i told you in the other post you dont know me, you dont have the rights to say nothing about me. And yes im not here to learn nothing from YOU.
For you charmile, i dont need to prove nothing, i just give a hint. If u wanna know if thats true or not you are SMART enough to test.
If u guys dont like what i write, if you think its nonsese, sorry for you. If you dont wanna see people complaining, why the hell you come to this forum? To flame? To prove that everybody is wrong and you with your enourmous knowing of the game will change they'r minds? Sorry you guys are failing like hell. If you think i'm a noob or i dont have patiance, or im a coward that rolls lots of toons, do me a favor dont waste your time talking to me, i really don't need your help or your thoughts.
So when you end to answer this (of course you will not loose the oportunity to flame more), lets return to the topic.
LoL, its so funny how people like to flame others... handel as i told you in the other post you dont know me, you dont have the rights to say nothing about me. And yes im not here to learn nothing from YOU.
For you charmile, i dont need to prove nothing, i just give a hint. If u wanna know if thats true or not you are SMART enough to test.
If u guys dont like what i write, if you think its nonsese, sorry for you. If you dont wanna see people complaining, why the hell you come to this forum? To flame? To prove that everybody is wrong and you with your enourmous knowing of the game will change they'r minds? Sorry you guys are failing like hell. If you think i'm a noob or i dont have patiance, or im a coward that rolls lots of toons, do me a favor dont waste your time talking to me, i really don't need your help or your thoughts.
So when you end to answer this (of course you will not loose the oportunity to flame more), lets return to the topic.
dang.. I don't even know you and I want to say "cry more?"
And Charmy has some good idea and some bad ones - like we all do.
Terry - you just went to the wrong forum. This is a forum for discussions not for whining. And I may not know you but i can read and I do read your posts. They are 1. OMG I am not rich! 2. OMG my toons lvl slowly 3. OMG you don't have the right to point to my obvious misunderstandings of the game!
None of us - the legit players started being rich but instead of losing our time complaining we just play. And guess what - both the lvls and the adena grow. For some they grow slowly for other they grow quicker but if you play they grow. Some must get clan help, some get friends and some make "fake" low level toons for manor and such... After some playing everyone finds one or another way to develop and to grow. Everyone but you...
Discussion? so please tell me what you understood about discussion, cause every time you write your are trashing someone and its opnions.
How many times i must say that i dont want to be "rich" and i dont care about how hard is to level? I play everyday and people that plays with me knows taht i never complained about if its hard or not to lvl. You realy understand only what you need to say that everybody that don't like how things are going or would like to have other ways to get things are playing wrong. You wanna discuss? There is no discussion in say cry a lot, or in talk bs about someone that you never saw playing. If i say that something can be better, i tell how to do it, i dont simple complain. But seems you only understand that im whinning. I can't do nothing about that.
As fascinating as this running argument is--Pain has put things down very well once again.
With the exception of D-grade armors, I can't see very good reasons for going for "intermediate-in-level" gear from a cost perspective.
Most of the "intermediates" have more value as crystal producers than for use by players.
Most players want to maximize their playing time--particularly those who don't log on 10 hours or more each day. For a majority of players they level faster (if end-game is a goal at least) if they equip the best weapons possible.
Until A-grade, armor is less of an issue but with the weapon side of things--getting the best is more effecient.
You can craft a c-grade sword through the lux shop (basically at crystal value rates) that is substandard or pay the premium for the SLS...end of the day if you are a single sword user you will progress faster through the levels with the SLS--which might ultimately be cheaper! Remember you're killing the same # of mobs whether using a sword with a patk of 10 or 1000--so you get the exact same exp per mob. You just have to hit it a lot more with the lower sword and will take a hell of a beating while doing so.
Perhaps even more importantly, that lower sword will not resell for any appreciable mark-up.
With the variations in the top of the grade weapons it's sometimes possible over time to actually create/buy them, use them, and sell them at a profit!
Certainly true through A-grade depending upon market trends.
Top D weapons on Lionna fluctuate between about 3.6-4.5m over the course of many months. (you can produce one via mammon if aa costs are down for under 3 million very often). Likewise top C-weapons have been as low as 11million and as high as about 17 million in the past 12 months.
These fluctuations (which produce profit opportunity) don't generally extend downward very far or as greatly with lower-in-grade weapons in each class.
D and C grade armor doesn't add anything special that makes them worth using over a higher tier set. Pdef/atk is way more important than a silly +poison bonus or +20 HP
When you get to A grade you get 2 tiers, MJ/NM (high) and tallum/DC (low) but tallum/dc are used to better effect on certain classes than mj/nm, because of the bonuses you get (+8% atk spd. - +15% cst. spd./+2wit)
D and C grade armor doesn't add anything special that makes them worth using over a higher tier set. Pdef/atk is way more important than a silly +poison bonus or +20 HP
When you get to A grade you get 2 tiers, MJ/NM (high) and tallum/DC (low) but tallum/dc are used to better effect on certain classes than mj/nm, because of the bonuses you get (+8% atk spd. - +15% cst. spd./+2wit)
So Plated Leather is total crap for pure PVE? Good for going A-grade atleast, if not all the way to 75 on the archer.
D and C grade armor doesn't add anything special that makes them worth using over a higher tier set. Pdef/atk is way more important than a silly +poison bonus or +20 HP
When you get to A grade you get 2 tiers, MJ/NM (high) and tallum/DC (low) but tallum/dc are used to better effect on certain classes than mj/nm, because of the bonuses you get (+8% atk spd. - +15% cst. spd./+2wit)
So Plated Leather is total crap for pure PVE? Good for going A-grade atleast, if not all the way to 75 on the archer.
Plated Leather set pwns Majestic LA @ lv61. I tried it last night and w/ PL I have 120 more P.Atk then Majestic LA. Which is great for PvE. The other bonuses of Maj LA makes it a better set then PL for PvEvP.
I read it before here, ppl are obsessed by obtaining Grade Gear at Mastery Level. I can understand that, but I also noticed myself that at I had a serious disadvantage at lv56 when I still had my Emi Bow compared to players with a BoP. The only advantage I had that was I was still wearing PL (and still do, and probally will keep doing till lv70) and they were wearing Doom LA at that stage.
But just think about it... Isn't it odd that Top C-grd heavy armor, Full Plate, is dropped by mobs lv52+ far beyond the mastery level? Yeah the bonus of FP Set aint that good, but it's way better then Composite Armor and yes you can skip C-grd when you have Brigadine but the overall server mentally will call you a noob and won't take you in a lv5x+ party when you're still wearing Brigadine with maybe MidC/TopC weapon just because your armor doesnt fit there levels.