ok this will be my last attempt on reasoning i would ask nc na marketing to make some surveys what people really want.
my wish is simple:
convert devianne to be the new european server
my reasoning:
even after the lastest migrations devianne has a european player base of more the 75% (id even suggest 80%+).
szenario 1: keep devianne na timed, introduce a new eu server
even greater temptation to migrate to the new european server. a new server means a blank state wich a much higher pull then for example the temptation to move to teon/franz now.
with the loss of a portion of its eu players dev will convert from a healthy server to a low population server.
szenario 2: make devianne european timed
will keep european players on devianne, may attrakt eu players from other servers into a 3rd heathy european sever.
im not saying it has only positive effects to make dev european but cutting even more into the existing population of a light server will make them die out anyway. without exciting sieges and raids for world bosses the server will loose more and more attraction.
craylon you would lose money by converting a na server because people would quit.
Opening a new euro server with transfers = more money.
Btw devianne would be the last server merged it would be sieghardt or erica first so no offense stop preaching about it, they already said what they are going to do they are going to open Luna
stop fighting to know if your server could be the new euro server. this is not the question atm...
the question is : "Is the more interresting for players to have a new server with euro time, or is it better to trasform an existing one into euro time?"
ofc all euro players from a server want their server as the new euro time server, like i do (i'm from Lionna).
There are lots of possibilities :
- create e new euro time server
- transform an existing one into euro time
- merge some servers with a big euro players and do this one the new euro time server
Devianne...Euro? NAH!
I chose that server for the ping. Which means its more than likely closest to me. All the people that want into the Euro servers pretty much should have thought of it when "transfers" hit the streets. Dont ruin my game because you were too slow.
It doesn't matter which server is suggested - they'll create new server and move it to European housing where Teon and Franz are now. Then they can lok into US servers and possibly merge some empty. Just changing times on west-coast (heh even!) server is useless.
Teon and Franz are already full and apart from making some money out of transfers to the new EU server most of the others will die (some are already dead). So eventually they will have to be closed or merged. That's why the idea of converting one NA server to EU is much better. And maybe the minority NA players can get a free transfer to one other NA server if they want to leave.
So make Devianne a euro server ^^
merging server for a mmo game simply means that it's dying thus less attractive for new potential players. A game that has lots of servers shows it's popular. A game that announces a server merge shows the lack of interests.
although i agree there should be a server merge, it's clear that ncsoft will never do it, or like as the last solution ever.
I dont agree to converse an existing server to euro server,cause that will be unfair for all the people that will transfer to the new euro server.It will be unfair cause,people that was at that server,they will keep theirs ch,clan lvls,and people that will transfer they will have to start again from the scrach.
merging server for a mmo game simply means that it's dying thus less attractive for new potential players. A game that has lots of servers shows it's popular. A game that announces a server merge shows the lack of interests.
although i agree there should be a server merge, it's clear that ncsoft will never do it, or like as the last solution ever.
Merges have happened already, just not in NA. Seems to be alive and kicking still so... [censored].
As you know, I strongly support this suggestion!!!!
It would be awesome for me (european) playing in Devianne to have Devianne as an EU server.
Having said that, I think NCSOFT can assess how appropriate this will be by conducting an in-game poll, where all logged chars during a 1 month period would vote once to choose 2 options: Remain NA server or Change to an EU server.
To avoid fraudulent mass voting by newly created chars, each vote would be multiplied by the level of the character, so 1 vote of a lvl 80 char would count as 80 votes and 1 vote of a lvl 1 char would count as 1 vote.
After this poll, NCSOFT would have a nice idea of the path to choose in order to please most of the player base of Devianne.
ok this will be my last attempt on reasoning i would ask nc na marketing to make some surveys what people really want.
my wish is simple:
convert devianne to be the new european server
my reasoning:
even after the lastest migrations devianne has a european player base of more the 75% (id even suggest 80%+).
szenario 1: keep devianne na timed, introduce a new eu server
even greater temptation to migrate to the new european server. a new server means a blank state wich a much higher pull then for example the temptation to move to teon/franz now.
with the loss of a portion of its eu players dev will convert from a healthy server to a low population server.
szenario 2: make devianne european timed
will keep european players on devianne, may attrakt eu players from other servers into a 3rd heathy european sever.
im not saying it has only positive effects to make dev european but cutting even more into the existing population of a light server will make them die out anyway. without exciting sieges and raids for world bosses the server will loose more and more attraction.
With all respect, where are you getting these numbers? Are you sure that it is weighted that way?
It's very unfair to take a server for one time zone and "suddenly" make it for another.
NC soft realizes this and that is why they are making a new server.
Hopefully they will act on it "sooner" rather than "later".
So is it official now? Has every NA server been requested to be changed to a EU server by a EU player on that server.
Seems like there are alot of people out there that are basically asking for a free server transfer. If you want to play on a EU server you had plent of time to start playing on one, or you could have jusmped on the trnasfer bandwagon.
If you really want to move to a EU server, your chance is coming soon. I imagine you will have to start new on it if you want to go there in the first 6months to a year. But hey you waited this long whats another year.
Devianne was made NA and needs to stay that way. There were euro servers made for a reason.
I don't know what server you're on, but Devianne is European with or without an official definition change - and continues to be despite the transfers. What's in it for you, or anybody, to call it something it isn't?
Anyway they should at least do a poll. It's amazing enough that they won't even do that.
No it's not!! Just because alot of EU players play on Dev doesn't mean it's a euro server. Thats the same as saying that if alot on NA player move to Franz it is a NA server. Buy your reasoning all servers are euro servers since we all know a alot of accounts on each server are farmers and RMT bots. Rang Rang sound familiar.
I agree there are alot of euro players on dev. But that doesn't imean t should be designated and transfered to a euro server. Euro player's new it was an NA server and could have went to Teon when it opened. You just missed the opertunity to go to a euro server. Just because you didnt want to spend the 50 bucks to transfer doesnt mean they should change it. If you want to play on a euro server then move to one plane and simple.
i agree with redbaron.
the basis on any action should be a poll to see what players want.
my main concern wasnt my 50 bucks.
my main concern is that every new server thins out existing server population. server population on the other hand is the very lifeblood of every mmorpg fun.
maybe my impression of the na quota of dev is wrong then for all i care advertise devianne as the next big na server after barts and make erica a european server.
but the strategy atm to introduce a new eu server that will draw euros out of the existing (underpopulated) servers just seems wrong to me.
Like Nerukan said what's in it for you to hold on so strong for NA server to stay NA server only with the name...and timezone.
You are right that NA is NA and that's why they try to make more EU server but how do you think your game will be if 1 or 2 or whatever server for EU will be opened and all the players will go there. Will you still have fun playin on a dead server? Will you just be happy that the server stayed NA times?
This proposal is not absurd and the least NC should do is make a poll ingame and see the numbers. Some NA servers that are filled 90% with EU ppl will die when they will move. And the only option then will be for NA players to move to healthier servers and eventually the empty ones would have to be closed. To prevent that the ideea of converting NA server to EU times is not that bad.
These are the 2 scenarios I see and the impact they may have is the following (imho):
1) An existing server (Devianne or oter) becomes Euro timed. Players: A lot of ppl from NA servers that wanted a Euro server and missed Teon and Franz will move there (maybe not all). After the change, some players from this server will move to other servers because of time inconvinience. There will be an amount of discomfort and irritation for them. Some may even quit. NC Soft: They make money from transfers to this server. All the transfers from people they leave will be free (otherwise they would probably quit). They will neeed less money since the hardware already exists.
2) A brand new Euro server is created. Players: All ppl from NA servers that wanted a Euro server and missed Teon and Franz will move there. In this case even more than the first case. A new server is always more appealing. After the massive exodus, some NA server will become even more deserted. The people there will probably want to transfer anyway making the activity problem even worse. At some point NC decides to merge some of them. There will be an amount of discomfort and irritation for all the player that were left behind. Some may even quit. NC Soft: They make even more money from transfers to this server. This time the also take money from people transfering away from the dying servers. The new server will cost money and so will the merge processes (but ofc they will cut running costs for NC on the long run).
From the 2 scenarios, the second results in more irritation for the player base but less blame on NC soft. That is why I believe scenario 1 is hard to implement.
even after the lastest migrations devianne has a european player base of more the 75% (id even suggest 80%+).
I believe Devianne is not the only server where the majority of the player base is closer to European time based rather than NA time based.
I think the best thing would be to start a poll for all servers except Bartz, Teon and Franz, asking the players of each server if they would like it to be converted to an European server or not. Have this poll up for one or two weeks and then change the two or three servers where the highest percentage of the voters said yes, to European servers.
Devianne was made NA and needs to stay that way. There were euro servers made for a reason.
I don't know what server you're on, but Devianne is European with or without an official definition change - and continues to be despite the transfers. What's in it for you, or anybody, to call it something it isn't?
Anyway they should at least do a poll. It's amazing enough that they won't even do that.
Obviously I play on Devianne. What's in it for me? NA timesets, what do you think? If I wanted Euro times I would roll/transfer to Teon or Franz, or the new Euro server. I don't care how many Euros play on Devianne, its an NA server and needs to stay that way.
The thing i find interesting is how people come to conclusion that "my server has more euro's than NA's" Is it because when you play in "primetime" that there are others around? because even if you are euro and peeps are on then doesnt always mean that those are eruos playing with you and i am sure once you are asleep that it is NA "primetime" and there are NA players playing then too.
It's very obvious. I don't think even creepy couldn't deny that. His argument is the server should remain how it is regardless.
I'm one of a handful of NA's in a European clan, I play at late NA times occasionally and it's noticeably more empty from when I play during earlier times.
The selection of top clans are mostly Greek. The names are apparent of that, and hero chat for a while now has been flooded with Greek.
There are only pockets of NA players left. Their voice has dwindled perhaps more than their numbers, but nevertheless I'm confident enough this time to bank on there being more Europeans as I am.
When running into a random person, it's usually a Greek.
I have no statistics for this. This is experience, and it is over a very long time and range of playtimes. I wouldn't mind statistics though, but unfortunately the only organization that can grant that is NCsoft.
What happens to your server's population online at US prime time (the one manor and sieges are bound to), according to this graph? Ah, it falls, right?
Did the servers crash tonight? or was it the login server that went down for a minute? Just owndering im at work and noticed everything on that link went to 0 at about 1am.
It's very obvious. I don't think even creepy couldn't deny that. His argument is the server should remain how it is regardless.
I'm one of a handful of NA's in a European clan, I play at late NA times occasionally and it's noticeably more empty from when I play during earlier times.
The selection of top clans are mostly Greek. The names are apparent of that, and hero chat for a while now has been flooded with Greek.
There are only pockets of NA players left. Their voice has dwindled perhaps more than their numbers, but nevertheless I'm confident enough this time to bank on there being more Europeans as I am.
When running into a random person, it's usually a Greek.
I have no statistics for this. This is experience, and it is over a very long time and range of playtimes. I wouldn't mind statistics though, but unfortunately the only organization that can grant that is NCsoft.
I agree with you that there are alot of Euros on the server, but I disagree with the "pockets of NA players remaining" statement. I play from 5ish to 11ish central time on weeknights and there's always a ton of people on, my clan and ally are generally full and raid nightly, and are primarily NA players.
Regardless of all this, its not a Euro based server, never was. It was made for NA timezones and would be completely unfair to all NA players to change it to Euro timezones. There are already Euro servers and have been for quite some time.
Personally, i find some of your "statistics" to be quite a bit flawed. I doubt there are as few NA players as many of you try to claim.
Just because lots of Euros chose to play on an NA server vs a Euro one doesn't justify changing the servers event timers to benefit them. They made the choice to play here. Teon and Franz have both been around for quite some time, and now transfers are available.
If you take a look at the server statistics from yesterday, Feb 20, at around 2 pm (9 pm GMT +1), for instance, there were around 6000 characters logged in on Teon, around 5000 on Franz, around 3000 on Bartz, around 2500 on Devianne and Hindemith, around 2000 on Kain, Gustin and Lionna, around 1500 on Erica, and around 1000 on Sieghardt. Even if we now very conservatively assume that 100% of the characters on Teon and Franz are more European time based and 100% of the players on all other servers are more North American time based, you get around 11000 characters from Euro players and around 16500 characters from NA players, but out of 10 servers, only 2 are European time based. In total, there are not enough players to justify the need for additional servers, so, in my opinion, the obvious thing to do would be to convert the 2 or 3 NA servers to European servers where the highest percentage of voters in a server poll would like it to be changed to Euro times.
Well that's a fine opinion coming from someone in Europe, Melian, but it misses a couple of fairly large points.
NCSoft has done new server introductions repeatedly. They haven't done mergers here.
No Euro signed on for a Euro server and saw it switched to NA.
Another large point is that unless you physically locate the server IN Europe, it won't help many of the european players that it simply gets retimed.
The obvious choice here is for a new Euro server (which we've heard rumblings about) in a very short time, being opened within Europe.
If that causes euro players to flee teon and franz then it does. If the aftermath of a new Euro server leaves an NA server empty then that can be dealt with separately.
I've been amused to see all the concern for "NCSoft saving money by CONVERTING an existing NA server...."
Very few posting here have EVER been concerned with NCSoft's revenues (lmao)!
"Give us more Devs!" "Give us more support!" Give us more in-game GM's--now!" "Offer incentives to drop subscription fees for loyal players!"....and so on.
It's just a bit hypocritical to include concern for NCSoft's finances in an argument at this point.
There is no need to 'convert' any existing NA server. Put together the new Euro server in Europe--and THEN go back and address NA mergers if/when needed as a separate issue.
At the very least at that point most of the people participating in the opinions will be from NA and not have the issue that Euro's have--which clouds any future NA merger discussions.
in my opinion, the obvious thing to do would be to convert the 2 or 3 NA servers to European servers where the highest percentage of voters in a server poll would like it to be changed to Euro times.
So those of us in NA that PICKED an NA server should just suffer then? Is that how you all see it?
This is how I see it, and albeit, you may find it rude. But you guys picked the NA servers. Now you're squawking because you are on a server with NA times zones, etc. You had Euro servers to choose from and possibly if you all had chosen your own servers, you would have gotten some new ones by now.
Not really my issue...I picked a server in my continent and have been in said server for a LONG time now.
Well my argument was last time is go halfway with it. Put the server time back three hours and you have a middle ground that most NA AND Euro players would be comfortable with. I do think it is an issue of time and not server location when it comes to the Euro groups that are populous in select NA servers (I don't believe it's the same in all).
The argument that the NA servers were NA servers from the beginning and should remain so is valid, but NCsoft definitely owes the Europeans for being so late at opening up a European server, waiting so long for transfers, and at this point only having 2 active ones despite the blooming European player group. They should have been opening up more European servers from much earlier and then there might not be this problem. Although most current players probably had a chance between at least 1 Euro server and the NA servers, they probably already knew about the established Euro communities on the NA servers that had thrived because of the initial lack of Euro servers. The burden of those communities moving is probably what caused Teon/Franz to get full so easily, and yet there are still so many more left on the NA servers. If I were in the position I would not be very happy with the transfer details after so much trouble.
Well that's a fine opinion coming from someone in Europe, Melian, but it misses a couple of fairly large points.
[...]
Very few posting here have EVER been concerned with NCSoft's revenues (lmao)!
Hehe, ok I give you that :) And I am probably biased, coming from Europe, playing on a NA server since open beta :)
I'm just not sure if server mergers are technically possible at all, and without them some servers might be really empty soon. What I absolutely don't want to happen is a server getting closed down because of low population.
This is how I see it, and albeit, you may find it rude. But you guys picked the NA servers. Now you're squawking because you are on a server with NA times zones, etc.
You are right, of course. When I started to play, I knew the server was based on NA time and I had no reason to expect that was ever going to change. I'm not complaining about my situation, I was just suggesting what I thought to be the best overall solution.
So those of us in NA that PICKED an NA server should just suffer then? Is that how you all see it?
Ok, from that perspective my suggestion certainly seems very unfair :(
They will never convert any server from #1 to #8 to Euro timezone. There are my thoughts:
1. If they make this, they will lose some amount of transfer fees. They will lose fees that they would get if devianne players would like transfer to new server.
2. NA community of existing server will be unsatisfied. So they will need make a number of free transfers to keep their subscribers.
3. If they decide one day to make a server merger to bring some action in empty servers, they don't need to provide a single server transfer. If players don't like new environment, they need to buy server transfer on regular basis.
If they launch new server, this brings:
1. Reputation, as Lineage2 grows up.
2. Server transfer fees.
3. Account fees for players who want start from beginnig over again.
Most Euro players who started playing this game in Prelude or Open Beta chose Devianne because it has the lowest ping from Europe of all servers.
This is why there is an unsually high amount of EU players on this server.
When Teon started later on and Server Transfers were not provided most people didn't want to move to that Euro Server because they had already found friends, other euro ppl in their timezone etc on Devianne.
More and more US people on Devianne have quit L2 because they never found people in their timezones to group with. This left Devianne with a I'd say about 2,5:1 Ratio of Euro players to US players.
The siege times however remained perfect for US people and not Euro people. This requires us to stay up till 3 am or 5 am, depending on the Siege to be able to participate. It is an absolute disadvantage of the EU players vs the US players on this server. And I think since the EU players are the majority this should be changed.
I personally know only a hand few of US players and I only know them because the play at my times. Converting the Server to Euro wouldn't change anything for them except the siege times. However since they play at our times anyway they could still attend to the sieges. The only other thing that would change is the ping which would go up from 10-15 to 80-85. Ping has never really been a huge problem in this game so I don't think it's vital.
Some US people here don't want this server to be converted to Euro and suggest all Euro people to take a server transfer out. I wonder what those players will do when they are left on a 1000 ppl population server instead of the 3000-3500 ppl it is now... Do you really think it will be any more fun than Sieghardt for example once all Euros are gone?
I understand that it sucks for the player base that this server was intended for that the server should be changed - however lets face the facts. The player base of this server has always been Euro and not US even though the official declaration has been different.
When Teon started later on and Server Transfers were not provided most people didn't want to move to that Euro Server because they had already found friends, other euro ppl in their timezone etc on Devianne.
I would like to add my case here. When I started to play, Teon existed. But the friends that invited on L2, were here on Devianne (started before Teon existed). These friends helped me on my first steps, with gear, money and advice and it would be much harder without them. I guess I am not the only one that experienced that ( I invited at least one more). So, it's not always matter of choice. Don't forget that this game is promoted much more between friends than actual media advertisement.
...I wonder what those players will do when they are left on a 1000 ppl population server instead of the 3000-3500 ppl it is now...
I see, but what about the NA players that have ALREADY paid and transferred toons to Devianne? Do they just get screwed out of $50 IRL cash per character because you and your buddy want to change something that has been in place since approximately May of 2004? (thats nearly 4 years now that its been just hunky-dory)
No amount of polls or demands or anything else should EVER make them change a server's designation from US->EU or EU->US. If we need a new Euro server (we do and it is coming), it should be a new server and ONLY a new server. Or would you like to start receiving the refund requests ?
I understand that it sucks for the player base that this server was intended for that the server should be changed - however lets face the facts. The player base of this server has always been Euro and not US even though the official declaration has been different.
I understand that it sucks that this server will be used as it was intended, however let's face the facts. We all chose our server no matter what our join date was or whose friends played where. We must learn to live with our choice even if it might not give us that warm fuzzy feeling inside.