Last night I waited on the clock to turn in 2 crops at Heine. As it looked like the clock was rolling over to 6 after, I made the mouse-clicks to sell 1 of the crops. There was another player standing beside me in Heine. I did not try to sell 2 crops in one try, because I was afraid the manor system would already be sold-out. After selling the first crop, I made the mouse-clicks to sell teh 2nd crop. At that point, ALL of the crops buybacks in Heine were used up. Mind you, a few people in other towns might have bought some of the Heine fruit, but I doubt all. It's not like Heine consistently has the highest prices for all crops on our server. Also, Heine had a fair number of crop "buyback slots", it typically has 1 row plus 1 or 2 more. I'm thinking, most likely that one player beside me bought all the crops except for the few I managed to grab. The thing is, if what I assume seems true, and I think it is:
THAT ONE FREAKING PLAYER SOLD MAYBE 6 - 8 CROPS IN THE TIME IT TOOK ME TO SELL ONE CROP!!!!!
So, for those who say bots aren't the problem with buying and selling manor seeds and crops: Get real.
To NC Soft, I say: Admit your players are putting up with a broken system. And DO SOMETHING about it. Maybe your devs could take a break from the time they spend on working out the next set of nerfs and use that time to solve this problem. (The fix might be changes to the manor system, or it might be something even better, like actually fixing the spoil rate for mats. Either way, just fix this long-time problem.)
Umm you do realise you can sell crops to heine even if you are standing in front of the Giran/Oren/Goddard/Rune/Aden/Gludio/Dion/Schut manor manager right?
It doesnt mean that specific person sold all the crops to heine, any number of people all over the map could have.
Last night I waited on the clock to turn in 2 crops at Heine. As it looked like the clock was rolling over to 6 after, I made the mouse-clicks to sell 1 of the crops. There was another player standing beside me in Heine. I did not try to sell 2 crops in one try, because I was afraid the manor system would already be sold-out. After selling the first crop, I made the mouse-clicks to sell teh 2nd crop. At that point, ALL of the crops buybacks in Heine were used up. Mind you, a few people in other towns might have bought some of the Heine fruit, but I doubt all. It's not like Heine consistently has the highest prices for all crops on our server. Also, Heine had a fair number of crop "buyback slots", it typically has 1 row plus 1 or 2 more. I'm thinking, most likely that one player beside me bought all the crops except for the few I managed to grab. The thing is, if what I assume seems true, and I think it is:
THAT ONE FREAKING PLAYER SOLD MAYBE 6 - 8 CROPS IN THE TIME IT TOOK ME TO SELL ONE CROP!!!!!
So, for those who say bots aren't the problem with buying and selling manor seeds and crops: Get real.
To NC Soft, I say: Admit your players are putting up with a broken system. And DO SOMETHING about it. Maybe your devs could take a break from the time they spend on working out the next set of nerfs and use that time to solve this problem. (The fix might be changes to the manor system, or it might be something even better, like actually fixing the spoil rate for mats. Either way, just fix this long-time problem.)
didja ever think someone out in ... say Shuttgart was selling to heine? or someone out in any one of a dozen other cities?
the manor isnt just you and the guy beside you, it constitutes a geo-political struggle between nations and ideologies.
I know that. Most of the times im very far from where i got the crops i aways try to sell for the best price town, what is anoying its cause if u miss 1 sec u are unable to sell them anymore. Sry i dont wanna talk about this anymore today i got to much stress in another topic about the same thing.
Umm you do realise you can sell crops to heine even if you are standing in front of the Giran/Oren/Goddard/Rune/Aden/Gludio/Dion/Schut manor manager right?
It doesnt mean that specific person sold all the crops to heine, any number of people all over the map could have.
I realize what you're saying could be the case. But, in fact, when I checked, the other towns did all have some buyback slots still open. Only Heine was sold out already. Given that one fact, yeah, I think the most likely explanation, far and away, is that the player next to me was running software to run through the motions of selling crops and buying fruit. He most likely went back to running bots in Field of Whispers, AI, GoE, or the Necropolis on AI.
Umm you do realise you can sell crops to heine even if you are standing in front of the Giran/Oren/Goddard/Rune/Aden/Gludio/Dion/Schut manor manager right?
It doesnt mean that specific person sold all the crops to heine, any number of people all over the map could have.
I realize what you're saying could be the case. But, in fact, when I checked, the other towns did all have some buyback slots still open. Only Heine was sold out already. Given that one fact, yeah, I think the most likely explanation, far and away, is that the player next to me was running software to run through the motions of selling crops and buying fruit. He most likely went back to running bots in Field of Whispers, AI, GoE, or the Necropolis on AI.
couldnt that mean heine has the BEST buybacks atm for your server?
It COULD mean lots of things but players have openly admitted to using the scripting of a certain 3rd party program to turn in crops and buy back seeds.
Luckily most of those players are now on Bartz but I'm sure there are about 750 automated players (out of Sieghardt's 1000 online population) just waiting in the wings. Some sort of intermediate step that cannot be easily scripted (something that requires the human eye) needs to be put into the manor system to make it a useful in-game asset for a legit player.
It COULD mean lots of things but players have openly admitted to using the scripting of a certain 3rd party program to turn in crops and buy back seeds.
Luckily most of those players are now on Bartz but I'm sure there are about 750 automated players (out of Sieghardt's 1000 online population) just waiting in the wings. Some sort of intermediate step that cannot be easily scripted (something that requires the human eye) needs to be put into the manor system to make it a useful in-game asset for a legit player.
EVERYTHING can be scripted. And if it can't its too complex to be in the game.
And even if you added some kind of image-verify thing bot would still go through the same steps 10 times quicker than you could. show the image to a controlling player and then sell it.
there's nothing you can do about it. It will always be there as long as 3 things are true.
1) many bots playing (check)
2) limitation on selling crops (check)
3) limitation on time of selling (check)
Until 1 of those change it will be the same, no matter what you put in. Besides. asia vs NCNA. etc. etc. not gonna happen through these boards.
and then ppl cry about not being able to get easy mats.. nono
try to beat the bots. L2 is the fight of the legit vs the non legit ones. havent u got used to it yet?
The players are harder to beat than the bots. The bots are good, but not the best.
If you don't have an atomic/accurate clock, if you haven't tried to master if for at the LEAST a week consecutively, if you aren't good with time, if you can't hold a beat accurately (this helps predicting when the next second will come), then you most likely aren't going to get it while competing against another player OR a bot.
So again, bots aren't really the problem. The only thing they do is filter out those who can't do any of the above from getting the manor. Find someone in your clan/alliance who can.
U can selll back multiple crops at the same time, no need to do them one at a time.
Each town also has 2 manor managers, did u check if ppl were standing at both?
Your failure at manoring is in no means an indication that bots are using your manor and beating u by cheating. Are u also sure you are "right on the second"? Try clicking it a second earlier, if u get the manor under maintenance u know you had right time.
The failure in the system is having to be at the manor manager and ready to hit the last button the second buy back becomes available.
IMO they should let each castle owner pick the time thier manor resets. Would not be available to change until after sieges. Would be posted promenantly where every you can look at castle owner info. This way you could see who controls the area, the tax rate and the manor rest times for that area.
I for one don't manor because I work nights and am not available when manors reset so it's one part of the game im completly out of. I dont know if this would help but hey it would change things up a bit.
It's not a failure in the system. The problem with the manor system is that if you do it "right", you buy like 500 seeds, but come back with 2000 or more. However, the manor cant buy back more than maybe 600-700. So every time the "seed" sells out you get 1300 more fruit that cant be sold back.
And this has been going on since it started. Castle owners on any server could stop selling seeds for a few months and just buy back crops, but thats not really monetarily possible for every castle owner, and so its not done.
Thats the real problem of the manor system, not that you "can't be there" at the correct time.
What you just said is possibly one of the changes that the devs should make in the game so that the manor system works. Although, I don't think that change alone would be sufficient, but it might help. The devs really need to take this seriously and do something.
The whole manor system is broken and controlled by bots. The time you spend trying to turn back your crops to get your reward isn't worth it, and not talking about any possible drop you have missed out while manoring. The manor system is broken, PERIOD. Only one time a day you can turn in the stuff is broken. The whole manor system is introduced to help non-spoilers to gather mats for crafting but it's just to hard and players are unable to turn in crops every day.
Everytime I use the manor system it takes me 3-7 days to turn in my crops. And every time I setup everything that I only have to hit the button to turn it all in at excatly 8PM +1GMT. 9/10 Times non-legit manors beat me and I to wait another day to have a chance.
/agree I've been trying to turn in crops for umm months :confused: once in awhile i can sell a few of the less popular but one crop I can't sell back at all :/
The reason why there are limits to the buybacks is because the manor system brings tons of money into the game. Even the worst castle on the worst server will make it's owner rich in a short time. If there were unlimited buybacks, the castle owners would be making untold billions a week. The rich would get richer, and the poor would get screwed. They'd re-invest that money into enchanting and crafting gear for their own clans, hundreds or thousands of QHP for their members, making castle owning clans more and more powerful with little effort, solidifying their control. Imagine entire alliances with +16 weapons, just because they had the money...a slight exaggeration, but a possibility. As it stands, the leading alliances on the servers already make massive amounts of money from the castles...do you really want that to be even worse?
Or maybe, alternatively, as a member of one of those alliances, you would like that. ;)
Turning in seeds might be a problem sometimes, I don't deny that. Yes, it takes a while to turn them back in some times. Time it right, keep practicing, and you'll succeed.
The reason why there are limits to the buybacks is because the manor system brings tons of money into the game. Even the worst castle on the worst server will make it's owner rich in a short time. If there were unlimited buybacks, the castle owners would be making untold billions a week. The rich would get richer, and the poor would get screwed. They'd re-invest that money into enchanting and crafting gear for their own clans, hundreds or thousands of QHP for their members, making castle owning clans more and more powerful with little effort, solidifying their control. Imagine entire alliances with +16 weapons, just because they had the money...a slight exaggeration, but a possibility. As it stands, the leading alliances on the servers already make massive amounts of money from the castles...do you really want that to be even worse?
Or maybe, alternatively, as a member of one of those alliances, you would like that. ;)
Turning in seeds might be a problem sometimes, I don't deny that. Yes, it takes a while to turn them back in some times. Time it right, keep practicing, and you'll succeed.
Money *into* the game? No, it takes money OUT of the game.
It takes pure adena for the manor lords alone to purchase fruits AND buy them back to convert them to final items. And for players, it takes money to buy the seeds (-taxes) from the lord, of which not all get bought every day. And although final items can be sold elsewhere, they are pure adena sinks. Most being consumables, whether being qhp's or enchants (Which go boom quite often.) you are still using adena from regular drops to purchase them. And at every step in the process NC added additional adena drains in terms of taxes and inefficiencies. (Rouding of seeds/buyback for example.)
And from what I've seen from many castle Lord's, the manor is hardly a big 'money maker'. Indeed many clans which get hold of a castle tend not to bother setting it up at all! (or poorly if they do.)
If anything though, the manor could serve to move money from the 'rich to the poor', as the manor 'rewards' are needed to craft all the weapons/armor that the castle lords are going to over enchant. So selling manor materials to manor lord clan to OE using manor created enchants is pure win for everyone. (NC, clan, and manor user.)
...except the buybacks are broken. There is just too much competition on a handful of seeds to work properly in this system. There really needs to be an additional 'drain' on mature fruit to 'release' the building pressure. (Moving the pressure to the seed 'buying' perhaps, but something else to adjust later perhaps.)
The whole manor system is broken and controlled by bots. The time you spend trying to turn back your crops to get your reward isn't worth it, and not talking about any possible drop you have missed out while manoring. The manor system is broken, PERIOD. Only one time a day you can turn in the stuff is broken. The whole manor system is introduced to help non-spoilers to gather mats for crafting but it's just to hard and players are unable to turn in crops every day.
Everytime I use the manor system it takes me 3-7 days to turn in my crops. And every time I setup everything that I only have to hit the button to turn it all in at excatly 8PM +1GMT. 9/10 Times non-legit manors beat me and I to wait another day to have a chance.
So u sux at manor, and u have to cry bots? Try harder, maybe u will learn how to do it...
And for the nerfen elder, if u are trying to sell back chilly codran for iron ore on gustin, good luck, ive been doing that one for 2 weeks now lol.
The reason why there are limits to the buybacks is because the manor system brings tons of money into the game. Even the worst castle on the worst server will make it's owner rich in a short time. If there were unlimited buybacks, the castle owners would be making untold billions a week. The rich would get richer, and the poor would get screwed. They'd re-invest that money into enchanting and crafting gear for their own clans, hundreds or thousands of QHP for their members, making castle owning clans more and more powerful with little effort, solidifying their control. Imagine entire alliances with +16 weapons, just because they had the money...a slight exaggeration, but a possibility. As it stands, the leading alliances on the servers already make massive amounts of money from the castles...do you really want that to be even worse?
Or maybe, alternatively, as a member of one of those alliances, you would like that. ;)
Turning in seeds might be a problem sometimes, I don't deny that. Yes, it takes a while to turn them back in some times. Time it right, keep practicing, and you'll succeed.
It brings a lot of materials into the game for the people who seed, and it brings a lot of adena to the castle owners, but those adena come form other players, they don't appear out of thin air. And the steps that cost adena makes this an adena sink.
Personally i think unlimited buyback would be good, It would increase mats in game, making crafting cheaper, and thus weapons/armor cheaper, time wise, not adena-wise since it would almost certainly mean a deflation of the adena-value, it would also increase things like scrolls of enchanting and other goods which can be purchased form the caste via crops, meaning a decrease in their value from increased supply.
There are good and bad things in it. It would make some things cheaper and easier to obtain for the general community, but at the same time it would bring in more money to the castle-holding clans, more than what they make already.
Well i dont agree that nothing unlimited is good. What i suggest is the oposit.
Limit the number of seeds a player can buy per hour.
Fix the max number of fruits each seed can produce.
Fix the buyback buy the number of seeds sold without beeing possible to buy less than it was sold.
And remove the stupid thing of manor buyback time, let it be free during one day, fruits that cant be sold must root if the player dont sell it at the same day.
The whole manor system is introduced to help non-spoilers to gather mats for crafting but it's just to hard and players are unable to turn in crops every day.
Terry and some of the others have good ideas, IMO. But just remember the first part of the quote. That's what really needs to be fixed. Fixing the manor is one way to address this. And as long as the problem continues, what is really hurt is the ability of players to get mats for gear. This applies to all classes, includng BHs IMO.
It used to be harder on Lionna to turn in fruits--at the moment with a bit lighter population it's a lot easier.
I don't think the manor works perfectly and I've suggested a 'fix' before that has also been suggested by others.
Rather than an all-or-nothing instant in time, would it help to limit sell backs per instance?
In other words, would regular players rather sell back 200 fruits every night than to have 12000 fruits unable to be returned for 4 months?
If the turn-in was capped it seems at first glance that more people would have a chance to turn in fruits--just smaller quantities per episode.
Idk what a 'fair' amount of turn-ins per episode would be, but a cap seems like it would distribute opportunity.
One can consider going to Sieg, there you can turn in all your crops at any time of the day I think. No?
Meh, it's **** right hard to turn in high level crops in for mats... some times it works. But yeah most/many of the people manoring have an extremley hard time in turning in their crops and if you're terribly unlucky you can go on for many days/weeks without success.
But look at most "rewards" in L2, they're mostly crap anyway (mostly because they're insanely hard to get for what they're actually worth, and sometimes they're just a ludicrous gamble).
I'm glad at least manor exists, it could've simply not existed.
Glass is half full?
I can do the manor perfectly well, I buy ~1.7k seeds at the beginning of the week, farm em all, turn em in at the end of the week. I don't use any atomic clock crap, I just use my PC clock on my keyboard. When it hits 9:06 I click sell, and voila, insta-mats. It really isn't that hard. I've been at a manager with 7 or 8 bots before and beaten em. You just need to have a fast clicky finger :)
This applies to all classes, includng BHs IMO.
If you're a BH, and manoring at the same time, and hurting for mats to get gear, there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with you...
I can do the manor perfectly well, I buy ~1.7k seeds at the beginning of the week, farm em all, turn em in at the end of the week. I don't use any atomic clock crap, I just use my PC clock on my keyboard. When it hits 9:06 I click sell, and voila, insta-mats. It really isn't that hard. I've been at a manager with 7 or 8 bots before and beaten em. You just need to have a fast clicky finger :)
I dont think Crawlerin would like Terry's "fix". Her/his 8k chilly's just rotted...
If all the fix get applyed his seeds will not root cause he will be able to turn them all durin an entire day. Also he will not be able to buy 3k seeds in once, so he will buy only what he can manor and will get all his fruit turned into mats :).
I can do the manor perfectly well, I buy ~1.7k seeds at the beginning of the week, farm em all, turn em in at the end of the week. I don't use any atomic clock crap, I just use my PC clock on my keyboard. When it hits 9:06 I click sell, and voila, insta-mats. It really isn't that hard. I've been at a manager with 7 or 8 bots before and beaten em. You just need to have a fast clicky finger :)
This applies to all classes, includng BHs IMO.
If you're a BH, and manoring at the same time, and hurting for mats to get gear, there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with you...
My finger is fast enough i can bet in it, but think about it, if someone dont have a finger that can pull a trigger 5 times before a coin hit the floor, its fair that he cant turn fruits?
Crying? Don't take me wrong, im not crying, im telling you what happen with most of the players. It's so strange that week after week people come here saying the same thing, and only very few are ok with this manor system, always the same people. You guys don't wanna see a change in it cause your supper dupper fast fingers will be useless? Go play CS and your fingers will be alot more apreciated. This system need to be usefull to everyone, not only for a little number of people.
When I started using the manor I didnt have it all figured out, what seeds are most popular, hardest to sell back etc. But I kept trying, and now I can sell my crops back most of the time. Becacuse I kept trying and got better at it.
You are simply saying: It's too hard for me, make it easier pls.
When I started using the manor I didnt have it all figured out, what seeds are most popular, hardest to sell back etc. But I kept trying, and now I can sell my crops back most of the time. Becacuse I kept trying and got better at it.
You are simply saying: It's too hard for me, make it easier pls.
Sure sounds like crying.
Its not too hard, its just stupid to be unable to do something cause of 0.1 seconds and need to whait more than 8 hours to try again. You can do it? Ok, but i really belive that lots of players will enjoy a lot more if the manor could be used any time a player is online and not at two expecific times with a very big chance of failure.
When I started using the manor I didnt have it all figured out, what seeds are most popular, hardest to sell back etc. But I kept trying, and now I can sell my crops back most of the time. Becacuse I kept trying and got better at it.
You are simply saying: It's too hard for me, make it easier pls.
Sure sounds like crying.
Its not too hard, its just stupid to be unable to do something cause of 0.1 seconds and need to whait more than 8 hours to try again. You can do it? Ok, but i really belive that lots of players will enjoy a lot more if the manor could be used any time a player is online and not at two expecific times with a very big chance of failure.
What's this two times?
Manor resets once a day, not twice. Maybe you should go talk to the manor manager and actually read what he says?
Well, if someone is not obssesd with the idea of getting rich for 0,1 sec the manor system can be quite useful. I never try to compete for buying and selling with the other players and nevertheless use the manor system a lot. And never have problems of buyng seeds and selling the fruits. Why? Because I don't use it to becoem rich but to get mats I need for my crafts. So i use it to get crafted leather, asofe, thons and high grade suede and don't try to get 1000 steel or such. And guess what - it is quite usefull for me and I never have problems with it.
Seed great codran, try to turn them in. If u fail try 1 second earlier (use the same clock all times). If that fails try 1 second earlier the next time.
The ppl that turn in CBP/Animal bone crops are prolly the pro's of your server, since its an expencive material. U need to be quicker than them.
Best of luck!
Edit: PS. If the system text says manor under maintenance, that means u clicked too early. Try to avoid that.
The problem is not really to sell crops back if you accept to be had.
It's just that, to buy most wanted seeds it's a real pain.
Unfortunately, time only flows forward, so the suggestion to try one second earlier is absurd. I'm not waiting the last moment to try and see that it's too late. I spam the manor manager of requests while it is still under maintenance. But when it opens, you get the message that the items is not available.
Let's face it, this is not only because of bots. Players have to beat players too.
I'm not sure it was the idea behind the design.
Yes "system under maintenance" means you were too early, and need to wait later next time.
If it just didn't get through, you were too late.
You can try selling your crop at the "second-best" price and you'll have a larger window of opportunity --- because most of the good people are going for the best price.
Even if you have to restore to the lowest price, you'll have an even larger window. That window is likely to exceed a second.
Make sure you have that accurate clock, best in window mode. Also count each of the seconds as they pass for at least the 20 seconds before it changes. you'll become more accurate with it.
Lastly, remember you'll likely have to actually send the electrical impulse of your brain to your finger before you actually see the final second change. Trust the ongoing beat in your head more than your sight. "1... 2....3....4...5...6...7... go!"
This is a comptetive game. Ofc players need to beat players even in manoring.
If u tried to not just spam, you would eventually find out the exact second it switches over, which would give u an edge.
But whatever, you keep clicking like a madman and I'll just sit back and wait for the right moment. Just wanna point out that your way isnt really working for you, since you come here crying coz of your own inability.
I need thousands of Animal Bones or Coarse Bone Powder. I don't want to be rich. I just want to craft. Suggestions?
All the daily crops of bones are barely enough to craft 2 B weapons. And there are 3000 ppl which want to craft. So to get your bones the manors sells must be increased at least 1500 times. Is it your suggestion?
I don't see why I'd suggest a multiplication by 1500 of available seeds. I'm asking for a suggestion. And yours isn't exagerated enough. Add a few zeros and I'll take you seriously.
In fact, as my method doesn't work well, I'd like to know :
- Can you wait with wanted quantity of seeds in trade window until the fatal second and then just click ok, or do you have to select "Purchase seeds" at the time it opens?
- Is the 8h06 precisely linked to ingame time?
- What time reference are you taking to be precise?
1. you can wait with the quantity set up
2. Yes, it's linked to game time.
3. I use http://www.time.gov/ any online clock named an atomic clock will do. NCsoft apparently keeps game-time perfect with this accurate standard.
3. I use http://www.time.gov/ any online clock named an atomic clock will do. NCsoft apparently keeps game-time perfect with this accurate standard.
Actually, Teon has been lagging behind lately (by about 6 minutes, but it's getting worse week by week). This means everything which has happen on an exact real time happens early - manor reset, sieges and olympiad starts and ends and so on.
You'd think NCSoft would simply sync the server time with the NTP servers during each maintenance. :)