They have had major ner***e since C2?if i recall i could cast debuffs on un-flagged people or was that a false memory?
And if so then you have essensialy upgraded fighters in pk situation ,for example gladiators dont have to rely on de-buffs to take an enemy down.but mages need the combo of de-buffs and attack spells to effectivly 1v1 with an opponent in my opinion.
What im trying to say is fighters can give it all theve got to a un-falgged player but mages cannot.
And why cant you do it in the first place how does having your name white stop someone casting root on you but you can cast it on a red?i know i know thats game mechanics but speaking phisicly and (magicly) you should be able to cast de-buffs on white names(un-choatic people).
Although I agree with some of the stuff you said here, I would also like to bring up the point of how easy it would be to grief people if you could debuff them without them being flagged. It's sad, but i'm sure there are people who would go around poisoning lowbies etc...
Well they should make it so the person who casts a debuff goes red if the victem dies,Which is not so different from just killing someone stright away with a 1 hit kill.
Btw this topic isnt pointed at anyone im just angry about all the nerfing that happens.
So people didn't want to die by poisonhuh ? i thought it was part of the game.I cant beleive people back then got rid of something that was already part of the game.
STOP NERFING PVP ELEMENTS, BUFF SOMETHING FOR A CHANGE
i always figured there was a system e.g such and suchclass>such and such class.If your class is weak against another class dont complain about it!theres always another class that beats theres!!!
Happy did you just gome back to the game? The changes to buffs/debuffs were put in to prevent griefing. It doesnt change pvp much at all. You just have to use different tactics. Don't worry nukers still have little to worry about against melee.
Imagine your out grinding and go to hit a mob and once you gain agro someone debuffs and roots you, or someone roots you then sleeps your healer. I can go on and on about the tactics people used to grief other players. Needing to flag in order be debuffed is a good change that has been around since C3 I believe. Everyone is use to it now so they know how and when to debuff pvp.
you were NEVER able to cast any debuff that can't do any damage while that toon is not flagged. i don't know when you were able to do so... definitely, you were unable to debuff not flagged toons as far as c4.
As possessionne said, you were never able to debuff people with a skill that does no initial damage. I'm fairly certain on that, as i remember thinking in beta that "I love sting; i can bleed out farmers with little consequence. If only i could poison them too."
Right, you could never debuff someone who wasn't flagged unless it did at least a little damage. Sting was hella popular (or cursed main gauche) back in c1 by farmers for that reason.
There were (are) some annoying griefing tactics with other spells though, like if I slept a mob and some idiot woke it up, it would go for me again.
example:
newbie skill "ice bolt" (makes little damage and can reduce enemy's speed) can be used on not flagged toon.
advanced skill "slow" (makes no damages, but reduces more speed) cannot be used on not flagged toon.
yes, it annoys from time to time, but this is really anti-grief thing. just imagine if any healer can root/sleep not flagged you.
You can not cast a spell on a target which can not potentially kill it (even if it only does 1 damage directly)
You mentioned the term 1v1 in your first post. if the other person is not flagged it IS NOT a 1v1. it's just a "1" it's not a fight, it's a 1-sided beating.
If you were allowed to do what you're asking, it would mean that not only things like root/silence/paralyze would be used to kill someone exp'ing. But a sps or sorc could cancel someone, wouldn't be a debuff, so even with your suggestion would mean they could kill people without going red. sleep/trance debuff gets removed when damage occurs, so it wouldn't be active when you would die.
The way debuffs work now is the best way in my opinion. The penalty for going red is already little more than a minor annoyance.
And if they would implement what you suggest, so you would go red for debuffing someone. That would create a whole new set of problems, both gameplay wise and programming wise.
For example. what happens if you paralyze someone, and then log off before they die?
What happens if you are actually pvping, you root a target who's flashing purple, and he then gets killed by mobs while the debuff is still active.
And how would the entire system work for determining what counts as a pk and what doesn't?
You make a suggestion and just assume it will be easy to make and you don't even consider what implications it may have on the game.
After reading everyones responses and thinking about, you are all right we never could use non-damage debuffs on a non-flagged person. There have been so many changes to buffs and debuffs since I started in C2 it's hard to remember what was changed and when.
If you could, then bot trains would be so easy to kill, sleep the healer, posion/bleed the fighters, lower attack speed, cast speed, p def. Or on normal people
root someone who is running from a mob and debuff them till their stats are in the negatives. O! Mass sleep/shackle a party during a Raid Boss.... so many ways to easily kill people w/o going red.
Root, Mana Burn, etc. while someone is fighting mobs, and chances are high he/she dies. And you won't go red, and you won't even risk anything like when training mobs.
If you could, then bot trains would be so easy to kill, sleep the healer, posion/bleed the fighters, lower attack speed, cast speed, p def. Or on normal people
root someone who is running from a mob and debuff them till their stats are in the negatives. O! Mass sleep/shackle a party during a Raid Boss.... so many ways to easily kill people w/o going red.
you can kill raid parties already, just buff the raid. might shield m.barrier focus deathwhisper haste.
on the note of debuffs and buffs im kind of disapointed with the OL options most of the debuffs dont rilly work well and the few that do ppl are screaming to nerf.... ive ben a OL for a wile (beta) and i jsut dont get it we already have crap buffs nerfed debuffs no real ability to get partys out of clan and vary few clans that want to include us(becose of lack of good buffs) NC seams confused y this is such an underplayed class and i can only say this ... do you ppl even watch what your doing to some classes and FYI the new ct1.5 lv 81 skill looks like a real winner >:( yet another debuff that is not likly to have a good land rate and wont rilly get alot done. dont get me wrong at high lvs OL POWN jsut about anything in 1 vs 1 but would it rilyl kill ya to get some of us that are NOT lv 80 a decent way to lv up?
P.S. what the hell is with ww1 at 58 and ww2 at 64 dosent every other buffer class get them at like 20-40 range?