As many of you know, Erica has lost many high level players to other servers. Two well known clans became essentially defunct, with many remaining players joining the last big clan.
Now we have the problem with this one clan taking over all the castles. I believe they hold 7 castles at this time.
I witnessed the Giran castle siege this weekend. By themselves, this clan is a zerg, outnumbering all the other clans put together. With a gate spell they can quickly transport the zerg from castle to castle. Obviously they hold most of these castles with alt clans.
Some players in this clan my take full deaths at the siege, but I don't think that will matter to them. With their large nujmbers and the fact that they hold all but a few Hero slots, they can dominate several castle sieges at one time.
I don't think it was the intent of NCSoft to allow one clan to hold all the castles. My suggestion is that clans not registered for a siege not be allowed on the siege grounds. I suggest they either be paralyzed or ported one town away, when they enter the siege grounds.
Actually, it was the intent of NC Soft that the powerful clans do what they want with control of things on the server...thats how it works. If you want to stop it, get stronger. Thats how it has always been.
Actually, it was the intent of NC Soft that the powerful clans do what they want with control of things on the server...thats how it works. If you want to stop it, get stronger. Thats how it has always been.
I don't think so.
NCSoft has already disadvantaged unregistered combatants by applying full XP loss on death. This makes it more unpleasant, for a clan that has a castle, to take more castles for alt clans. I believe this recent change indicates NCSoft does NOT want a single clan to be able to dominate a server to the extent they can "take" multiple castles.
What NCSoft supports is that the dominate clan can take the very best castle. There should be something left over for the rest of us to fight over.
Let them take everything and get bored. Make them argue amongst themselves. People like that eventually have egos come to blows and someone will split off.
It will suck in the meantime though. I bet all the taxes are 15% too huh?
If they can defend 4 castles at the same time you guys must be really really bad players , no offense.. Dont tell me they hold all the forts too . Do they ?
This is essentially what happened on Lionna, though it was for different reasons than you have experienced...
One clan held most of the important castles within their ally and alt clans, most of the heroes... but in the end, the whole clan, and most of their enemies on Lionna, were bored out of their minds... and were the first to request transfer for that first Tuesday. Lionna became a desolation for pvp and competition. The fun ceased to exist. They have that to look forward to... but I'm sure right now it's just a huge rush for them... like White Order is experiencing on Lionna now that LP and BW are gone. Once that thrill is gone, they will be left feeling the hollow victory.
Also, a small detail... you can't gate from or to the siege grounds. You can only do it off the grounds, so everyone has to run outside that parameter. What you are suggesting would be to limit gating during siege hours. That just won't fly.
The only way to halt siege hopping is by making anyone not signed up go red when they kill someone with full karma and pk count for it. Anyone that is signed doesn't flag at all on the field (like now), so anyone killing a white, signed toon goes red.
I can't see it happening. Short of this, 1 clan can dominate all the castles.
Personally Ashanel I dont care, nor do I sign up for seiges I just show up. I kill who is ever on my list that week and help who I feel like. Erica was lost long ago and if they were to make a PVE server they could take that one and do it. There is no real, nor has there ever been any real PVP there.
oh a lil PS to you Ash... why take sides? Or better yet how many sides can there be? As many as it takes to make the server work. Actually the carebears have won if you look at it. Their refusal to fight has made FOB leave. Im sure RR will get bored also and go sooner or later. Its very hard when you play liegit to fight against botted sub-classed chars.
So lets say an ally has 2 clans. Both hold a castle. Each other cant help to defend their allies castle? Lol ...
Obviously I am talking about attacking a castle, not defending it. If I understand sieges correctly anyone can register to defend, but you cant register to attack if you already own a castle (not sure about that).
Anyway the clan I am talking about did not register for the siege, so they could freely kill any clan leader scribing to take the castle.
If they can defend 4 castles at the same time you guys must be really really bad players , no offense.. Dont tell me they hold all the forts too . Do they ?
I do not think they have had to defend any castles yet. It is easy for a clan leader with a castle to get anywhere quickly with ports and a wyvern. Once there, a gate chant will bring the whole clan. When 90+ people show up as a coordinated group, any other Erica clan will be overrun.
I do not know if they own fortresses. If so, it would be with alt clans, but there are lots of those around.
As far as being bad players, did you read my post. This clan has almost all the heroes. If they don't hold a hero slot it is because they have no toon for that slot yet. They have collected most of the 78+ players on the left on server. This clan has only been in existance for a few months. It is filled with active high level players, not alts or lowbies. It is also well known that a lot of these players found ways to accelerate the leveling and equiping of their toons. Most of the accelerated toons are either in this clan or have tranfered off Erica.
Im sure RR will get bored also and go sooner or later.
I'm looking forward to that day. I don't like being told where I can and can't go.
Its very hard when you play liegit to fight against botted sub-classed chars.
This is the very reason I don't even bother.
Its utterly pointless to even try.
I learned the futility when I was 57 and was one-shot by a 75...whatever class playa was.
Also, a small detail... you can't gate from or to the siege grounds. You can only do it off the grounds, so everyone has to run outside that parameter. What you are suggesting would be to limit gating during siege hours. That just won't fly.
I am only suggesting that unregistered combatants have more restrictions put on them. I know that NCSoft has ways to excludes toons from an area, if they don't meet requirements. Other ideas, like making them go red when they kill someone on the siege field might also work.
I did not say anything about stopping gates. I just mentioned that a gate could get a clan somewhere fast, and a gate was used at least once for this siege, just outside Giran. An empty area became a zerg in just a few seconds.
I learned the futility when I was 57 and was one-shot by a 75...whatever class playa was.
At this siege I was 3 shot by a dagger, while on my buffed 77 maestro. Died in 2 sec. That was when I realized they were not registered.
oh a lil PS to you Ash... why take sides? Or better yet how many sides can there be? As many as it takes to make the server work. Actually the carebears have won if you look at it. Their refusal to fight has made FOB leave. Im sure RR will get bored also and go sooner or later. Its very hard when you play liegit to fight against botted sub-classed chars.
I think if you talk to FoB, they are having the time of their lives. I dont think they consider it a "loss".
They farmed a server, got their epics and left to one of the premier PvP servers.
Will every other major power house clan do the same eventually? Yup.
Once you've amassed enough wealth, full boss jewels for your clan and level 80's, why woudnt you leave a dead server to go to a thriving active PvP server?
I learned the futility when I was 57 and was one-shot by a 75...whatever class playa was.
M
Erican Carebear
Um... you can get 1-shot at 75+ too, ya know. 7k+ crit by an archer takes allllll the EE's cp/hp away... So exactly what lesson was it that you learned?
And I must also mention that a level 57 will never (well, should never) beat a level 75. Whether that level 75 is unlegit or legit doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. So again, not really a lesson about unlegitness, just a lesson about game mechanics...
I wasn't even considering the legitness of the equation.
The point is, I didn't have a prayer against someone from one the major pvp guilds. That one experience formed an impression for me of pvp against the server powerhouse(s).
What did I learn? I don't like it, and I don't want to be there.
You bet I can still be one hit by someone my own level.
So again, why should I bother?
Sorry, I don't mean to be melodramatic.
I just don't see the point to pvp, it only makes me angry. I can't compete, so at the end of it all, the only thing I get out of it is P.O.'d and frustrated.
So yes, I feel Tsili's frustrations.
IMO there is something askew when the game mechanics allow one group of people to control a majority of features.
I've no doubt though, Rome will fall.
No Charmille, we play a different game, perhaps a more mature game. Any idiot can win at checkers especially if they cheat. Perhaps some of us prefer chess where you have to use your brian not your pocketbook to win.
Well, doesnt sound like that to me. You know, you can level to 80 completely legit too. If you use your brain, that is. Also, organizing takes some brainpower too, botting, ebaying etc. dont help in that really. So yeah, you're playing the wrong game if a single 90 member clan can dominate all the castles against the whole server.
90 members is an average sized clan lol. Get real.
But when you cheat to do it (buying accounts, adena, botting levels) whats the point? Well I guess it works for middle-school mentality.
You dont HAVE to cheat to do it.
Here.. gather 9 friends.. (or 7 if you want to box two buffers). Have them roll complementing classes. By that I mean a SWS+BD... Bishop if your doing SE+PP, or EE if your doing 8 live and a WC, plus the appropriate DD classes. (If they are mana dependant make sure you have enough recharges, if they arent, even better.. dagger groups w/e)
Set a time, every day, to log in and level *1 hour* a day..and on weekends *3 hours* a day. Thats not alot right? Surely you can spare that much?
You will find, you'll be 70+ in about 50 days. *IF* that.
Keep the group going, get your subclasses, and again, make sure they are appropriate. Let the supports play the DD rolls, and the DD roll the supports so that you have a good variety base and the supports dont feel used.
Tada, your end game. Not hard at all is it?
Remember, taking a CASTLE is about PVP. Its not PvE... your not fighting against NPC's, unless your on a new server.
Well that poses other problems like a real life, learning quests (yes some of us like to do that to), socializing. Four hours a day that's a bit much and what fun is grinding continuosly with no pay off but to be ubar and hated? Clans like FOB and RR dont enjoy the game they enjoy ruining other people's time.
For your information... you can take a castle with two people. It's no biggie owning a castle anyone can do it they just have to want it bad enough.
Well that poses other problems like a real life, learning quests (yes some of us like to do that to), socializing. Four hours a day that's a bit much and what fun is grinding continuosly with no pay off but to be ubar and hated? Clans like FOB and RR dont enjoy the game they enjoy ruining other people's time.
For your information... you can take a castle with two people. It's no biggie owning a castle anyone can do it they just have to want it bad enough.
Thing is you dont even need to do it 4 hours a day.
All I see are excuses really as to why you cant or wont.
Do you have to be hated if your high level? Of course not. If your a [censored] or not is entirely up to you. Thats just a excuse.
As to the castle part, good luck with that. Maybe you could take a castle with 2 people once enough of your server leaves. "Man, you had 2 people, you zerged us! er... me!"
this server has always been like that and it annoys me greatly. most of the people on erica are happy to walk around and look at things and be level 57.
don't know why they're even playing this game.
and don't worry, we will leave after everyone in clan's got a frint. baium is being a ***** and hasn't dropped a ring twice in a row now lol.
Not excuses I play the game I want, my friends and I. I dont cry and dont care about levels. Oh I hit back too I honestly dont care if its S grade, A grade, w/e.
And I did take a castle with two people. Funny PR was just too preoccupied with that ****ed sword when it was new to the game to notice I was actually signed up. Me and a friend snuck in pmed a high roller to look out and giggled about it when it was over
So.... remember this...
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
Because we know there is more to the game then pvp and we know you will leave eventually.... and we dont mind waiting for you to do so.... I dont know why people like you play the game when its only about smacking people down to you... that's a bit narrow minded if you ask me.
I'm sure you will bore of L2 long before I do and leave for something more "exciting" lol.
Wow not my thing ... not even for a break...
I've been playing this game for **** near 6 years now counting other countries beta's.
I doubt I'll "bore" anytime soon, sorry.
Honestly it dosent matter even if RR leaves Erica. You think THEN you'll have a chance? Your kidding yourself. There will ALWAYS be the next top dog, and then you'll complain about them.
Its a cycle with certain people like you. You can /never/ compete because you do not want to put in any effort to do so.
As many of you know, Erica has lost many high level players to other servers. Two well known clans became essentially defunct, with many remaining players joining the last big clan.
Now we have the problem with this one clan taking over all the castles. I believe they hold 7 castles at this time.
I witnessed the Giran castle siege this weekend. By themselves, this clan is a zerg, outnumbering all the other clans put together. With a gate spell they can quickly transport the zerg from castle to castle. Obviously they hold most of these castles with alt clans.
Some players in this clan my take full deaths at the siege, but I don't think that will matter to them. With their large nujmbers and the fact that they hold all but a few Hero slots, they can dominate several castle sieges at one time.
I don't think it was the intent of NCSoft to allow one clan to hold all the castles. My suggestion is that clans not registered for a siege not be allowed on the siege grounds. I suggest they either be paralyzed or ported one town away, when they enter the siege grounds.
Wow, have you played this server for more than a week ?
PR in its various forms over the past few years have done pretty much what you are now saying about RR.
Taken and held the most valueable castles and mopped the siege fields of the others whenever they wanted.
Nothing new here,
please enjoy your stay on Erica.
this server has always been like that and it annoys me greatly. most of the people on erica are happy to walk around and look at things and be level 57.
What exactly is wrong with that ?
Are they not paying to play this game just like you?
don't know why they're even playing this game.
And you probably never will.
You see, they arent put here for your enjoyment.
They are playing the game the way they want to.
Altho it doesnt make you happy, it doesnt make them wrong.
and don't worry, we will leave after everyone in clan's got a frint.
Sorry to hear that, who will the OP have to complain about when your gone ?
Wow, have you played this server for more than a week ?
PR in its various forms over the past few years have done pretty much what you are now saying about RR.
Taken and held the most valueable castles and mopped the siege fields of the others whenever they wanted.
Nothing new here,
please enjoy your stay on Erica.
I have been on Erica since the first day that it opened. And I have never mentioned any clan by name, because it does not matter. I am suggesting a change in game mechanics to promote competition. The developers can decide if any suggestions made here might do that.
You brought up RR, so I will say that something is different on Erica. There has never been a single group (clan or ally) as powerful relative to the rest of the server because:
1) Clans could never get to level 10 before CT1.
2) Almost all the high level players have left or joined RR.
In addition, I have never once said RR has done something wrong. I am only suggesting a change in how sieges are run. My original topic has nothing to do with RR.
Because we know there is more to the game then pvp and we know you will leave eventually.... and we dont mind waiting for you to do so.... I dont know why people like you play the game when its only about smacking people down to you... that's a bit narrow minded if you ask me.
Not excuses I play the game I want, my friends and I. I dont cry and dont care about levels. Oh I hit back too I honestly dont care if its S grade, A grade, w/e.
you like to contradict your self alot!
like Kirosuni stated, your mentality is why erica has sucked sense C2. Which is why I rerolled off of there back in early C-4. I had enough of the people like you, and the people like FoB!
Because of people like you who think "I have a life" and "I can't do 4 hours" every other day. You really think your going to get past 5% at lvl 70 if you don't spend more then 1 strong hour playing? you wont!
I literally did 70-71 in just 4 days. just me (PW) soloing Phys resist mobs in martyrs with my two boxed PP/SE (same acc) sitting on her butt soaking up XP while I killed for a few hours a day (6-8 hours).
Its about effentcy. Knowing what mob gives best XP over all.
you can't log in spend 20 minutes waiting on a group, spend 20minutes running up ToI to get to 5. Then 10-30 minutes later say oh I got to go. People like you who do crap like that; screws up every one!!
you may like the graphics, you may have good friends you like to play with.
But this game is designed for 76+ PvPing, if you can't come to grips with this simple fact, then you don't belong here, and you belong in a more PvE oriented game like GW, WoW, or CoH/CoV. Even Aion which is supposed to have a very relaxed PvE grind, is supposed to be geared to high lvl PvP.
and yes I agree with chramille's response above.
oh one last thing, you play on erica, you have no right to flame any one so sthu!!
you can't log in spend 20 minutes waiting on a group, spend 20minutes running up ToI to get to 5. Then 10-30 minutes later say oh I got to go. People like you who do crap like that; screws up every one!!
So the game was destroyed by people who:
-didn't want to 2-3 box
-wanted to party other people
-had a real life and couldn't spend hours in the game
That is very intresting. Sorry for ruining your game. Quiting L2 now. Sorry for the trouble. BB.
As long as people enjoy the game, it's entirely false to say they don't belong here (why the hell do you care anyway?). If I wanted to sit in MDT all day, every day gambling and had a jolly good time doing that, I'd belong here as much as anyone else. Who's to say what activities are "right" to partake in? You? Lul.
If you like to do that, do that and no one cares. But if you like to do that and want to ruin the fun of others cos you cant do what they're doing(simply because you chose to sit at MDT), you dont belong here. You belong in a single player game in that case.
The problem is you cant complain about something that requires high level and good gear to be efficient to do when you are not willing to put as much effort as the others do.
Of course some buy items , some bot , some share accounts etc. But do you think even without all these they wouldn't still be the top dogs? People that are willing to spend 2k $ to get the boss jewels , I am sure they spend at least 3x or 4x you spend in game.
I am really interested to know if those of you on Bartz or any other server, had the kind of history Erica had.
Erica had one dominant clan. People say here that no one rose up to fight them. That's not actually true. This clan was very good at eliminating competition. In order to 'fight back' you had to have a bit of a chance. In order to have a chance you had to be equal level. This clan knew that and they actually targeted people leveling. Killing them over and over to discourage them from leveling and ever becoming any competition.
It was pretty brutal and very effective.
Then this same clan complained repeatedly that they had no real competition. I really believe they didn't want competition. Not really, since they had worked very hard and effectively to crush it.
The people left on Erica are in many ways tougher than any of you can imagine. There are a number of legitimate high level players who have managed to scrape their way up despite the earlier oppression.
Most of us learned early that if we weren't playing for ourselves we weren't going to keep playing.
Without having been on Erica and lived through those times, where good people quit in droves because of being bullied... you don't really know what you are talking about.
Erica had one dominant clan. People say here that no one rose up to fight them. That's not actually true. This clan was very good at eliminating competition. In order to 'fight back' you had to have a bit of a chance. In order to have a chance you had to be equal level. This clan knew that and they actually targeted people leveling. Killing them over and over to discourage them from leveling and ever becoming any competition.
You think it was different for any other server?
If so your entirely mistaken.
The goal of this game IS to get on top, and to stay there.... for as long as you can, anyway you can.
Some guilds do it politically, by allying up a bunch of other guilds. Others do it brutally by forcing down the competition. (Yes that was done on multiple servers.. Erica was chump change compared to Gustin for example, EA was the greatest at that)
Dosent it seem a bit .. silly.. to hear complaints about sieging when you find out that the posters dont even have time or the will power to organize a decent group to play one or two hours a day since they are too busy smelling flowers in Dion?
Dosent it seem a bit .. silly.. to hear complaints about sieging when you find out that the posters dont even have time or the will power to organize a decent group to play one or two hours a day since they are too busy smelling flowers in Dion?
I think it's no more silly than hearing people complain their server is deserted or they have no competition when they worked to force it off. :)
I was never one to give up. If you put all my characters together I probably have two max level characters. My downfall has always been that I really love roses. ;)
Dosent it seem a bit .. silly.. to hear complaints about sieging when you find out that the posters dont even have time or the will power to organize a decent group to play one or two hours a day since they are too busy smelling flowers in Dion?
I think it's no more silly than hearing people complain their server is deserted or they have no competition when they worked to force it off. :)
I was never one to give up. If you put all my characters together I probably have two max level characters. My downfall has always been that I really love roses. ;)
True to a point, however, its naturally that in a PvP game you'd have players that...well...want to fight?
Because someone is better at the game, should they be forced to say "Ok, I'm going to take a year break to let you all catch up.."?
Moot point now though, since people will be 'farming' the dead servers and odds are you'll have it worse then you ever did before if you are on one of them.
Wife is partial to Roses herself. I always have to sit and wait :(
Without having been on Erica and lived through those times, where good people quit in droves because of being bullied... you don't really know what you are talking about.
Actually I got every right cause I was there, and I know all about it! (you're probably not talking to me, but I felt I had to say)
yeah many people left, for alot of those reasons, one of them being that TSA wouldn't let any one they didn't like into DVC, this went on till about C4 when alot of new places opened up and they stopped caring about dvc, and doing parties there (antharas lair).
Then there is the Paraing people and killing them with summons for 4% loss while in war, training towns with siege mercs so they drop gear. Probably a few other things.
And all those that opposed them where lieing the whole time, botting, ebaying, scamming, playing every one else's accs to lvl. It was at that point I gave up on the anti-SP people, cause they where all liers, horrible PvPers, and its why SP had no compantision (stilll don't).
FOB, SP, PR, and the level of PvP on Erica are all irrelevent to going forward with ideas concerning promoting competition at castle sieges.
First it must be decided if it is reasonable for a single clan to control all or most of the castles on a server. If this is ok, then the discussion is ended. If it is not a desirable situation, then how can it be discouraged or stopped. NCSoft usually likes to tweak the game mechanics when it belatedly realizes a situation is out of the players control. (For example, the elimination of drop on death for whites). I would like to hear more ideas on modifying the game mechanics.
Its not a single clan though, its them and Alt clans. Technically a single clan can only own one castle. In the eyes of NC, each of those clans is an individual clan, be it an "alt" clan or not. THE GAME WAS DESIGNED SO THAT IF A CLAN WANTS IT CAN DOMINATE THE ENTIRE SERVER. Thats how it was intended. To get around that you have to raise opposition, be it through hard work, slowly building, or getting part of the said clan to jump ship. Personally I don't really like the idea that non signed clans get full pvp loss with or without charms. It just doesnt promote inter clan relationships at sieges. Say I own Giran, I can not help an ally clan take a castle without a full death..that makes no sense.
The discussion of letting one clan dominate is done, its how this game was designed.
Its not a single clan though, its them and Alt clans. Technically a single clan can only own one castle. In the eyes of NC, each of those clans is an individual clan, be it an "alt" clan or not. THE GAME WAS DESIGNED SO THAT IF A CLAN WANTS IT CAN DOMINATE THE ENTIRE SERVER. Thats how it was intended. To get around that you have to raise opposition, be it through hard work, slowly building, or getting part of the said clan to jump ship. Personally I don't really like the idea that non signed clans get full pvp loss with or without charms. It just doesnt promote inter clan relationships at sieges. Say I own Giran, I can not help an ally clan take a castle without a full death..that makes no sense.
The discussion of letting one clan dominate is done, its how this game was designed.
Of course you can help them, just have your clan leader sign up.
What people tend to forget is that the game is about "groups" of people working together. Not just one person showing up to help.
the noobs on erica have never been willing to put in an ounce of effort to fighting against PR. when we left JC and formed RR I tried to help out the noobs a lot.. told them how to make good parties, tried to get them to come on raids, things like that but none of them want to put in any effort at all or play good classes (they'd rather play their lvl 50 destroyer or dwarf than an EE or bishop because it's more fun)
that's just how it is. we never had pvp until SP split and it was just SP vs SP.
The game is *designed* to allow one clan/alliance to dominate.
Penalties are already in place to discourage main clans from venturing on the field. If they are willing to take those, then that is that.
Now... what I think should be brought up personally, is still the remaining issue of making a castle so good to a main clan, that they would not dream of letting a alt clan own it.
The move of allowing buffs/teleports was a move in the right direction, and it has promoted more main clans owning castles instead of alts (specially if you dont have a CH..or fort to lesser degree), but more needs to be done.
Its mostly just a function of being able to sign up to siege anywhere on the map. Hell, maybe its as simple as letting a castle owning clan sign up to attack, but if they take the castle their's goes to NPC control. (One hand thats kind of stupid, on the other it would be exploited since clans would still sign just not crest, f' I dont know ;P)
THE GAME WAS DESIGNED SO THAT IF A CLAN WANTS IT CAN DOMINATE THE ENTIRE SERVER.
That is your opinion. I suspect that you are 100% wrong. I don't believe it was never intended that all the top level players would join 1 clan, and essentially end all competition for castles.
Keep in mind everyone thought that drop on death was the way it as intended. But that didn't work out like the developers expected, so they had to get rid of it.
This game is about competition. If you think it is about domination, then you are clueless. Domination comes about when one group using exploits and cheats to gain an unfair advantage over others. Of course, everyone here knows that. And we all know those who claim domination is the purpose of the game are also the most likely to cheat.
I have no interest in botting up toons and materials, or purchasing adena to buy the best equipment. And you very well know that is how many top Erica players gained their levels and equipment.
But I am doing something! I am suggesting a change in game mechanics to help restore a balance.
BTW, I never found FOB, SP, etc. to be a big problem. I have had almost no problems with RR. Maybe I am just too boring for them to bother with me.
When people in my ally are having problems with any of the above, it is often because they are doing something stupid. For example, when you notice your CP aand half your health is gone, it is a bad time to fight back, but many people do. I find a BSOE much cheaper than a BREZ. Usually by the time I get back to hunting my attacker is gone. My down time is minimal
I also don't care much who owns castles. My clan thought they could take Giran, so I participated in my second siege last Sunday (first was some years ago). It was also the first time I had seen a zerg that was all one clan. I don't think the game mechanics account for this possibility, because the devs did not forsee such a low population server.
That is your opinion. I suspect that you are 100% wrong. I don't believe it was never intended that all the top level players would join 1 clan, and essentially end all competition for castles.
Keep in mind everyone thought that drop on death was the way it as intended. But that didn't work out like the developers expected, so they had to get rid of it.
This game is about competition. If you think it is about domination, then you are clueless. Domination comes about when one group using exploits and cheats to gain an unfair advantage over others. Of course, everyone here knows that. And we all know those who claim domination is the purpose of the game are also the most likely to cheat.
The game was originally designed with drop on death in PvP too, not just PvE. But because carebears complain they took it out. People complained and they woosified the PvE deaths too by taking out item drops (and yes, I have lost good items to drop on death).
Also, I why do you assume that everyone in a dominant clan cheats, there are alot more legit players in those clans than you seem to think.
The game was designed so that a Powerful clan/ally CAN control the server, thats how it is. If you do not believe me look at every server's history and see what happened. 1 or 2 major alliances have risen to power, eventually someone got strong enough to opose them, there was a conflict, the victors then dominate the server until the cycle repeats. THAT IS THE GAMES DESIGN. In game domination should be solved by players IN THE GAME. If it bothers you that much, devote more time and energy to making your clan or alliance stronger. If your clan isnt strong enough to take a castle, then you do not deserve a caslte, its that simple. If 1 clan has all of the castles simply sign to siege 4 or 5 different ones. with a bunch of lesser clans helping. Have a few parties show up at 1 caslte with 15 minutes left, start attacking and wait for the "BIG MEANIES" to clan gate in. Then just have the main force go through and take a different casltle farther away. Clan Gate has a recharge, they will not be able to do it again within 15 minutes, you should be able to get into the castle and crest against their alt clan by then.
The game is not about domination or competition, its about a PvP and a somewhat realistic display of what happens when people become powerful. A group of people become powerful, start taking over the world and are rather sucessful until another group of people becomes powerful enough to fight back...
The fun thing is if you just wait a while, there will eventually be an internal power struggle in the "BIG MEANIE" alliance(using the term because you make it sound like they are bullying you in elementary school or something) they will split and start fighting each other. It might not be soon, but it will eventually happen, almost always does.
**Edit**
The intentions of the original designers of this game are long since lost. It has been wosified and is becoming less and less the "hardcore" pvp game it once was. Also, they only change major things like that based on their main market, which is not NC NA. Korea more than likely still has competetive sieges constantly so arguing because your server or other NA/EU servers have 1 dominant alliance is kind of a moot point.
Of course you can help them, just have your clan leader sign up.
What people tend to forget is that the game is about "groups" of people working together. Not just one person showing up to help.
Castle owning clans can not sign to attack another castle.
That's true.
Maybe that is the mechanic that needs to be changed. They can only control one castle but can sign up to participate in any siege.
I think they are allowd to sing to defend, but not sure on that. would be nice if you could sign for a different siege, would make things interesting.
Oh, it would be more than interesting!
Look, to everyone in this thread or who reads it, this game is essentially a sandbox pvp game. Not all people desire to play to be the "bestest" or the most powerful but in the end the game has to have some focus and it is clear to me that, regardless of one's thoughts on the efficacy of the developers, this is a pvp game.
Because of this, I don't see any problem with the idea of Empire building and quite frankly having someone proclaim themselves "emperor".
The real problem is that the game mechanics should be such that it takes great effort to do so and to maintain it AND that after a prolonged amount of time the non castle holding or smaller clans should be able to effectively push back PROVIDED that some effort is expended.
A while ago (few years) I was reading an article on Star Wars Galaxies in PC Gamer magazine (I believe it was PC Gamer magazine).
In this article a certain event was talked about where the rebel players successfully pushed back and practically destroyed the Empire which dominated the server.
Through a series of clandestine meetings, small groups of players were able to coordinate attacks to the extent that they were able to make surprise attacks to successfully turn the tables on the Empire players.
This is very possible in this game of L2.
However, where the issue is, is that players don’t want to do this. Not to say that I can blame them. It takes effort and time and quite frankly many of us have our own agendas when it comes to playing games. Some need to play to “be the best” and some just want to sign in and have some fun or some relaxation before they do other things.
It is not entirely the fault of the developers that players don’t want to do the things that are needed in order to turn the tables on the dominating forces that end up on each server.
What is the developer’s fault is that they don’t think things through very well or do not take into account that perhaps western players view certain goals differently (or means of achieving those goals) than eastern players.
One example that comes to mind was when a castle sieging clan lured a siege NPC to a town to wipe the town out. When the question was asked “why didn’t the developers foresee this” one of the CM’s replied “because their player base actually uses these NPC’s to just siege.
There are tools in place to help overthrow dominating castle forces such as the Seven signs. But no one wants to go without access to mammon so everyone signs up for the same side.
It seems to me that if players want to play in a sandbox pvp game AND are tired of how things are run, then they need to change their game play a bit and perhaps fight back.
Of course, there is the old mantra of “but the highest level players botted and e-bayed their way to their positions of power”. Whether or not one wants to believe that or not, one can carry the example to another extreme. Let’s say that no one ever botted or e-bayed. Players desiring to be more powerful would put in the time and effort and then apply their abilities to dominating the server. It would just take longer. I posit that the players who want to dominate the server will always dominate the server regardless of how they get their lvls and equipment because it is in their nature to do so.
Because of this you get players who are more casual without the same goals who then become ******. So, either NC needs to address this imbalance (and it could be anything from having less open servers where you have areas that are not open pvp (such as EVE) so that players can segregate themselves, casual server options, make it so that opposition forces can be created without having to give over your life, etc) or put up with a game that is dangerously close to being broken. However, I in no way fault players who use the game mechanics to secure castles without having to risk anything. There are numerous ways the dev’s could have prevented this. In short, if players don’t’ want to be dominated by a small but powerful group then they need to start working together with other small groups.
I think that the main problems derive from the low population. Power can be easier accumulated in such conditions and opposition is harder to build. I don't think that this kind of problems exist in Korea where population ranges much higher. If it's not there, it's not a problem for NC.
I think that the main problems derive from the low population. Power can be easier accumulated in such conditions and opposition is harder to build. I don't think that this kind of problems exist in Korea where population ranges much higher. If it's not there, it's not a problem for NC.
I believe you are correct.
However, I also think that there are just inherent issues with the current setup.
As someone else very wisely mentioned in this thread, the ownership of a castle should be such a desired thing that no clan would want to give it to an alt clan.
All clans should be able to sign up for either side. Heck, there is a reason that people make friends in this game: for alliance.
I very seriously do believe that a clan/alliance should be allowed to build and empire. I also believe that the game mechanics should be set in such a way that over time it becomes more challenging to hold that empire (but not so much that the game just essentially makes it impossible) and that it then become more possible for smaller but well orgainzied groups to take part.
The Seven signs gives players tools to help non-castle holding clans weaken castle holders but players don't take advantage of this.
The game should reward those who put in the effort but not be so broken as to not allow a "swinging back" of the pendulum.
the ownership of a castle should be such a desired thing that no clan would want to give it to an alt clan.
it already is like that. IF you could take and control a castle obviously you would want it on your mainclan (who doesn't want clan gate and blood alliances, etc?)
thing is, the opposition also wants to deny you a castle, hence why they put it on their alt clans, simply to deny the other guy from having it.
The Seven signs gives players tools to help non-castle holding clans weaken castle holders but players don't take advantage of this.
what I mean is your siege force is either strong enough to repel the defenders and allow you to attack the wall, or you are not strong enough. the strength of the walls and guards means nothing.
what I mean is your siege force is either strong enough to repel the defenders and allow you to attack the wall, or you are not strong enough. the strength of the walls and guards means nothing.
Well, true. But in your experience do you feel that as implemented, the current benefits of the seals "could" tip a battle (I've never been in a siege where it was apparent that a 7 signs benefit was being used - certainly not a NPC) or am I understanding you that the reality is that if you have a strong force then you will take it regardless of a 7 signs benefit? And does that then mean that these benefits need to be made more effective?
what I mean is your siege force is either strong enough to repel the defenders and allow you to attack the wall, or you are not strong enough. the strength of the walls and guards means nothing.
Well, true. But in your experience do you feel that as implemented, the current benefits of the seals "could" tip a battle (I've never been in a siege where it was apparent that a 7 signs benefit was being used - certainly not a NPC) or am I understanding you that the reality is that if you have a strong force then you will take it regardless of a 7 signs benefit? And does that then mean that these benefits need to be made more effective?
if your force is stronger than the defending force, it doesnt matter how strong the walls are, you will take the castle. it just may take 20 seconds longer to down the wall. (or 20 seconds shorter if dusk owns strife)
IF you could take and control a castle obviously you would want it on your mainclan (who doesn't want clan gate and blood alliances, etc?
thing is, the opposition also wants to deny you a castle, hence why they put it on their alt clans, simply to deny the other guy from having it.
Lets not forget the additional $$ a castle generates, even being held by an alt clan Gludio can make you 100 mil a week or more.
thought about it a little, I think the clan level to participate should be increased to level 6 with both royal guards purchased, this way you will have to risk losing crp on clans and who wants to level up to lvl 6 and 2 royal guards on an alt clan just to lose 2k CRP when you can't hold it?
thought about it a little, I think the clan level to participate should be increased to level 6 with both royal guards purchased, this way you will have to risk losing crp on clans and who wants to level up to lvl 6 and 2 royal guards on an alt clan just to lose 2k CRP when you can't hold it?