Just a thought...

I don't know if this is the most appropriate subject for the forum or has it addressed before but why can't NC block/sue/whatever all private servers?
I see vidoes posted on Youtube are mostly from private servers.
Wouldn't NC get a lot of customers back if they just do something about private servers?

NCSoft, along with the FBI, shut down one of the largest private servers.

It does happen.

They also need to be hosted someplace where they can seek legal actions against them.

They try. The recent GG update that checks host files, for example. But, uh... that didn't last long. I've always prefered retail over priv.; something about a sense of accomplishment that seemed lacking from anything else.

They also need to be hosted someplace where they can seek legal actions against them.

omg ur back!

Howdy, Appa!

They try. The recent GG update that checks host files, for example. But, uh... that didn't last long. I've always prefered retail over priv.; something about a sense of accomplishment that seemed lacking from anything else.

PServers dont use GG, so any updates are moot. Even the ones that do use it dont use a fully updated retail client anyway.

Most are hosted outside the zone of US or Korean preview.

Exactly like elrohir says. Thats why a lot of servers are hosted in russia.

I am not sure 100% about this, but maybe there is a legal problem about PS. NC needs to prove that the PS owners made money from their product in order to have legit grounds. Saying that they are just loosing money because of the PS operation is not enough, since they can't prove that the players that play on PS would go to the official for sure, especially if a PS runs on an older version of L2 (previous chronicle).
I am sot sure also what stands about the the game files a PS uses. Are they considered stolen? Does this need to be proved? I am not speaking from knowledge, just a few things a picked here and there.

I am almost sure though that NC lost a sue in the past against a RMT company, so they can't turn against them (that's why there are so many of them). RMT is a legit business in the eyes of the law (if not NC's).

Technically the PS owners don't make money from their product; they "accept donations".

The two main types of PS are J (java servers) and OFF (official files). OFF are undoubtedly stolen, since the game is not open source and server files are not provided for users to host their own. J servers are only partially (well mostly) stolen in terms of what was taken and what they had to create themselves. ie- J uses all the same textures, animations, statics, etc etc; but everything from mob ai to geo-data had to be recreated to simulate official servers.

All in all, I'd love to see all the PS go away and have more retail options available (not too many though). Slightly higher rate servers, rediculous high rate servers, condensing of the low pop. servers, etc.

private servers existence is the worst plague for NC.
not bots, not exploits, just private servers.
im more than certain that more people play in these kind of servers than the real thing (retail).
of course im in no position to know about the asian market but at least in europe.

dont ask for numbers or source, i havent.
i know though whats happening in my country and at the hundreds internet cafes that are full of players of any age and the majority of them are playing in some crappy PS.
not WoW, not CS, we re talking about 80-90% of them play on L2 private servers.

NC definitely needs to do something

private servers existence is the worst plague for NC.
not bots, not exploits, just private servers.
im more than certain that more people play in these kind of servers than the real thing (retail).
of course im in no position to know about the asian market but at least in europe.

dont ask for numbers or source, i havent.
i know though whats happening in my country and at the hundreds internet cafes that are full of players of any age and the majority of them are playing in some crappy PS.
not WoW, not CS, we re talking about 80-90% of them play on L2 private servers.

NC definitely needs to do something

Seriously.. one of my clannie left the official server to play on a private server :(

private servers existence is the worst plague for NC.
not bots, not exploits, just private servers.
im more than certain that more people play in these kind of servers than the real thing (retail).
of course im in no position to know about the asian market but at least in europe.

dont ask for numbers or source, i havent.
i know though whats happening in my country and at the hundreds internet cafes that are full of players of any age and the majority of them are playing in some crappy PS.
not WoW, not CS, we re talking about 80-90% of them play on L2 private servers.

NC definitely needs to do something

Seriously.. one of my clannie left the official server to play on a private server :(



A good friend of mine left 2 do the same :(

/Burn Private servers to the Ground

That GG fix just broke private servers if you were modifying the l2auth line to route somewhere else, in the HOSTS file. It didn't effect other clients and there's already a work around for HOSTS anyway.

It's amazing how many private server sites there are though, just about everyone who posts on my youtube videos assumes the stuff is from a private server, even the Frintezza video that isn't wild like the chaos stuff.

I think there are more people playing on private servers than there are on the official. I don't think the majority of those are because of the need for a credit card or the monthly fee, as many cash-shop or "donation"-driven games, where you trade RL money for advantage, costs more than a subscription.

Must be something else drawing them there, if this is the case.

Its really not hard to figure out why frankly.

Alot of those players are previous L2 subscribers who simply could not tolerate the grind /or the bots.

PServers do away with both in one fell swoop... far better then the "official" servers ever could. Which is kinda sad for the 2nd case, but whatever.

I've tried making my position to Alyra in private messages, we'll see if it gets anywhere though. Its a huge untapped market if they would simply listen to what their customer base wants and what is driving them away.

Hey, if NCSoft wants to deny themselves triple their current NA customer base, thats not my concern.

I am not sure 100% about this, but maybe there is a legal problem about PS. NC needs to prove that the PS owners made money from their product in order to have legit grounds.

Unless the PS owners can show documents that NC sold them rights to host a copy of L2 then they have no legal grounds. This is the same deal with one of the largest watchdogs in the US that sue for software companies. If this group knocks at your business you better show receipts for your software or you pay.

Its really not hard to figure out why frankly.

Alot of those players are previous L2 subscribers who simply could not tolerate the grind /or the bots.

PServers do away with both in one fell swoop... far better then the "official" servers ever could. Which is kinda sad for the 2nd case, but whatever.

I've tried making my position to Alyra in private messages, we'll see if it gets anywhere though. Its a huge untapped market if they would simply listen to what their customer base wants and what is driving them away.

agree. people playing there get the same end-game fun without grind. And most of them have better bot protection then the official servers which is sad.

most of the private servers (not talking about Java servers) are running on C4 PTS code (rumour is it was stolen :) ) and the rest is coded (l2extend etc).

NC should really think about why do people leave to private servers and do something about it.

I get a lot of private server people on my site and most balk at the fact it costs money to play retail.

I don't know how easy it is to block bots on private servers, I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that there is NO MONEY involved in botting on private servers. If the grind is so easy, no reason to bot. If money is easy, no need to bot. If the private server admins blocks a version of the botting program, whats in it for the makers to make it work again? Are people who are playing on a free private server going to pay to use a bot program? Doubt it. I could be dead wrong but bot makers aren't constantly getting around whatever measures official puts out there to stop it, because there's no demand for the program. There's money to be had.

Are people who are playing on a free private server going to pay to use a bot program? Doubt it. I could be dead wrong but bot makers aren't constantly getting around whatever measures official puts out there to stop it, because there's no demand for the program. There's money to be had.

This time, you are dead wrong. :) Not usually tho!

Bots *are* in great demand. Just check some of the "hacker" sites and you'll see people begging to figure out how to use them on them. However, most never can.. because they've been flat out blocked by the admin's.

I mean, you dont have to pay for the "new" bot programs either, they are all free.

Bla bla.. didn't read it all but, here's the thing.
As long as many private servers have higher population than most official servers and better services, it won't bring back anyone here. Besides that one server which was closed was back up again in a few weeks. GF.
I'm not being pro private servers or anything, i'm just saying ppl wont pay for a less good service if they can get a better for free and at the same time play in an environment where there is no bots nor ebayers.
I stick around cause i want all the good stuff first. Other reasons than that is hard to find.
Cheers.

I'm not being pro private servers or anything, i'm just saying ppl wont pay for a less good service if they can get a better for free and at the same time play in an environment where there is no bots nor ebayers.

Yes agreed.

In order to bring *back* subscribers, you have to make it so that the service provided is better then some joe blow is giving, and right now its not.

The only compelling argument for live over ps is you get updates that work correctly and you get them a year before anyone has worked out how to do it "well" on the ps's.

Thats just not enough, when combined with the utter horrible customer service, the rampant farmer population, and that dang near half or more of every hero was in a bot train at one point or another.

I find it extremely funny though that a high amount of people who play on private servers whine about the botting/ebaying going on retail, but then they spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars/euros on donations on that crappy private server they play on! Hmm I think I had an actual point to make but it's too **** late and I can't think straight anymore. Oh yeah, private servers are bad, mkaaay.

I find it extremely funny though that a high amount of people who play on private servers whine about the botting/ebaying going on retail, but then they spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars/euros on donations on that crappy private server they play on! Hmm I think I had an actual point to make but it's too **** late and I can't think straight anymore. Oh yeah, private servers are bad, mkaaay.

So if the spending of 'real life' money is not the problem what is?

Why would people spend money on a private server and not the offical one and yet still complain about issues with the live servers while still playing the private one?

I got a pretty strong feeling, that the lack of 'rewards' on the official servers is what drives them away. (And an excess of them makes them want to leave the private ones!)

I'm not just talking adena, although it's potentially a part of the problem/solution. I'm talking more about normal 'loot'. And in extension of that, basic gear that ones needs just to keep up with the difficulty curve of the mobs. (Yes, at some point those A grade mobs are going to laugh at your C grade gear, but you STILL won't have enough to get B grade gear...much less craft it. Unless of course you make a major effort elsewhere to gather adena/mats...while unable to 'play' your main in most cases! And it's that last thing that really tends to tick people off.)

You guys know why private servers exhist? because the Live servers have been left to go to [censored], yes you cant deny it, what like 3 of the servers are really playable at the moment, the rest have under 2k players MAX ever at a time compared to DOUBLE that on the 3 others.

And guess what, they decide to OPEN another euro server? oh wait i guess kain didnt already lose half their population they want us to be down to 1/3 of that again so we have sieges with 50 people online!

Merge some servers together, get us pvping again, i spent 5 hours last night looking for war tags, on a weekend, i found 2 people total (my war tags are like over 50% of the server at least), want to know why i couldnt find them? they all afk or live it up in hellbound, but more the fact that i couldnt find anyone cos the servers dead

I find it extremely funny though that a high amount of people who play on private servers whine about the botting/ebaying going on retail, but then they spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars/euros on donations on that crappy private server they play on! Hmm I think I had an actual point to make but it's too **** late and I can't think straight anymore. Oh yeah, private servers are bad, mkaaay.

I don't think those are the same people. the ones buying and the ones complaining that is.

leaving out the private servers with special shops with A/S gear, NPC buffers in town, and the other 1000x+ ones. (since frankly, those suck after week1)

I played private servers first, then went to retail. And form what I've seen most of the semi high-rate ones get to a stalemate eventually, where the top clans have multiple full S sets and boss-jewels and the bottom ones have 78/78/78(or 80 if it's c5) characters running around in C/Bgrade.

Then people start spamming the forums with "Wipe plx!" and eventually it'll happen. and the evil circle starts over.

That's why i originally left private, Cause I would rather play a server that'll never get wiped, than grind my way to high levels multiple times.
And I don't regret it, but There are probably people going the other way aswell and not regretting that.

I find it extremely funny though that a high amount of people who play on private servers whine about the botting/ebaying going on retail, but then they spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars/euros on donations on that crappy private server they play on! Hmm I think I had an actual point to make but it's too **** late and I can't think straight anymore. Oh yeah, private servers are bad, mkaaay.

Well, what I see is more like... players coming from private finding the xp too long and deciding they already know the game and ebay/bot.
So I'm not sure to see how it is good to close private servers and try to force people to come on retail. Especially with the lack of power of GMs.

Well, what I see is more like... players coming from private finding the xp too long and deciding they already know the game and ebay/bot.
So I'm not sure to see how it is good to close private servers and try to force people to come on retail. Especially with the lack of power of GMs.

Actually. Botters don't come from private servers. most private servers disallow botting (and they actually have GM's to be able to enforce the rules instantly) And block it in some way.
Some wont even allow dual-boxing.

Retail rates are slow, whether or not you come form a private server. that's what spawned bot-programs.

Yes, I hear from my friends (that played long at 2x exp) that they wouldn't like to start playing on a new server from the very beginning with every rates x1.

I'd be different and make server with rates 0.25/0.5/0.5 :p

From forums in my and neighbour countries, the biggest thing they whine about is:
Paying for game = have CC or buy gamecuards
Bots
Complete lack of GM and technical support
Everything is slower

Most people that go to official server expect to be it more ... how to say it ... they expect more from official servers. But it does not happen. So why pay for something that they can get for free and maybe better in their thoughts?

Ok, for those of you who never experienced lineage other than the official way:

Here it is the way it is and nothing will change within a near future even if 5000 people requests it.
What you need to understand when talking about private servers is that there's hundreds of difrent server set ups. '
They all have their own set up of rates, rules, and donation or not. Everything according to what the demands of the player base is.
So you can't really say "private servers are this and that".
If I would want to play on a 5x server where you can donate but with no reward for it, where bots are blocked by a program and where you aren't allowed to dualbox. I could find one. I could probably find several. And all of them would have more people online than the majority of the official servers.

If game companies wants to defeat private servers they need to respond quickly to what the majority of the playerbase wants or they will leave for something better. It's 2008 now, people don't just wait around these days. Wake up!

Nothing beats free.

Nothing beats free.

Offc it does. Why would we be here otherwise :> (no lt's lol)
Nah, think about it.
One simple change to NA servers would bring back so many ppl who would throw their money on ncsoft.
I suggest NCNA buy a license of some private server who developed their own idiot proof bot-block software so they wont even have to make it themselves (cause it would just suck anyway).
But will that ever happen? :>

NC has blocked them many many many times. Then it only takes those software 1-2 days to adjust. I believe the biggest block before was a protocol change but now I think the software handles changes on the fly. Those programs change really fast because there is money to be made. If they want to kill the automatons then they need to investigate as soon as the report is made.

What i heard last was: offical bots dont work on privs.

Ok, for those of you who never experienced lineage other than the official way:

Here it is the way it is and nothing will change within a near future even if 5000 people requests it.
What you need to understand when talking about private servers is that there's hundreds of difrent server set ups. '
They all have their own set up of rates, rules, and donation or not. Everything according to what the demands of the player base is.
So you can't really say "private servers are this and that".
If I would want to play on a 5x server where you can donate but with no reward for it, where bots are blocked by a program and where you aren't allowed to dualbox. I could find one. I could probably find several. And all of them would have more people online than the majority of the official servers.

If game companies wants to defeat private servers they need to respond quickly to what the majority of the playerbase wants or they will leave for something better. It's 2008 now, people don't just wait around these days. Wake up!

Well, one way that NC could/should have done that was have alternate rule sets. I know people moan and complain about the raised rates server, the PvE server (which does have pvp) and whatever but having such servers would bring people in.

I've always been for choice as quite frankly, people are just different and require different things. The problem with all of this is how does NC implement alternate rules servers without completely destroying the populations on other servers.

let's face it, the majority of players, hearing about higher rate servers are going to want to transfer there. So unless there is some differentiation between the two that makes one think very hard whether or not it is worth it (such as the limited play time that they use in korea or the possibility of lower lvl cap as was mentioned as a theoretical possibility when they were talking about alternate servers) you will find that people will be leaving the regular servers.

You said it yourself. There are many kinds of privs meaning many configurations and protocols and I don't know what else. Why would bot makers make a bot for each one when there is no money in it? Not for all but bots DO work on privs. Check youtube for proof.

NC has blocked them many many many times. Then it only takes those software 1-2 days to adjust. I believe the biggest block before was a protocol change but now I think the software handles changes on the fly. Those programs change really fast because there is money to be made. If they want to kill the automatons then they need to investigate as soon as the report is made.

Of course you can block them for good like pservers do.

NCSoft just dosent. Lets be real here, it is a majority of there customer base at the moment. They *are* Lineage 2 at this point in time. They certainly outnumber real players.

So no, you wont ever see a "fix" like those on Pservers. They would be screwing themselves. Sure, they'll run a ban spree every now and then. Why? Gets them more money. Ever notice the spree's tend to happen before quarter results are posted? Wonder why.

Yeah, good points Sov.. Btw, did you think of this.
If new rules and options would ruin the previous servers, doesn't that make it obvious that people never wanted it the way it was in the first place.
I mean, look at what happened when server transfers were made availabe. All of a sudden it was very clear that ALOT of ppl were eu players (and others) who rather played in EU time zone. Why keep so many US time servers if no one plays them?
Same with the sex changes, do you see ANY male elves anymore? :>

If new rules and options would ruin the previous servers, doesn't that make it obvious that people never wanted it the way it was in the first place.

No, it doesn't. It could ruin the new servers as well.

It sometimes happens when what people think they want is not the same as what people are ready to pay for.

Yeah, good points Sov.. Btw, did you think of this.
If new rules and options would ruin the previous servers, doesn't that make it obvious that people never wanted it the way it was in the first place.
I mean, look at what happened when server transfers were made availabe. All of a sudden it was very clear that ALOT of ppl were eu players (and others) who rather played in EU time zone. Why keep so many US time servers if no one plays them?
Same with the sex changes, do you see ANY male elves anymore? :>

Well, look at it this way, Lineage 2 is a game. It has certain rules that define it. One of those things is the epic leveling curves as well as its horrible economy. This is how the game makers have conceived of this game. the use of "horrible' is obviously my feeling toward it. They would probably call it something else.

They then give us this game with its rules and we decide if we want to play it.

To then cast this in another light, it's like chess. Some people find chess interesting. They like its moves, strategy, etc. At one point in chess, if you get a pawn back to your enemy's first rank you can get any piece that you would like. Most get queen.

However, maybe there are people who don't like this rule or think that they should get a Queen if they make it to their enemy's 2nd rank.

To that end, one would say "ok sure but this is how the game is played, these are the rules".

So it doesn't matter, for the most part how players might feel about the rules, the rules are the rules.

However, once you buy a game of chess, there is nothing to stop you from implementing any sort of rules you want as it will be between you and your opponent. Monopoly has this as well as many people put all taxes and monies into the center and when you hit free parking you get that money. There are other such "home rules".

However, since the idea is that NC Soft controls the servers that the game plays on, they can make any decisions they want. Also, they have created this game in such a way that they get paid every month for it's assets. Otherwise, they could have just sold the game, included whatever would be needed to run it on line and then say "hey, here is the game, go nuts, play it how you want".

But they didn't do that.

So, after all of that what we have is a game that is online, controlled by the game makers and they essentially say "here is the game, here are the rules, go nuts'.

What they need to then decide is whether or not it is worth it to allow for alternate rules that will significantly change their vision of the game.

In part, remember, this is also the creation of artists and designers. They also have a vision of what they want to present to the public.

The idea is that if we don't like the rules we just don't play. But does that make sense when their game appeals to various people with different needs or desires when it comes to gameplay?

NC has made the decision that long leveling curves and a hard economy will make a good game. in some ways it does. But in other ways it just doesn't appeal to the majority of players. Throw in FFA pvp and you get a game that has a smaller player base.

So, getting back to what you were saying, people want to play this game for the art design and the pvp. It then attracts many pvp players who are not interested in slowly creating their characters and acquiring their equipment. They are more looking for a fps experience.

So does NC change things so that these players, these fps players, have a venue to play in a way that they want?

Even if it goes against what NC wants to present? Because then you get into the argument of whether or not this game is something more than a product. Is there an integrity that the designers must have in order to be fulfilled and because of this they don't make any changes. Like a painter or a composer saying "this is it, love it or move on".

Or is it a product were the designers should do what it takes in order to get the best return on their money and effort?

In the end, you can't just add high rate servers without making some sort of differentiation between "classic servers". Well, you can but the classic servers will suffer.

Which of course might prove to the designers that their original design just doesn't cut it as more players want something different.

Hmm... well, I'm just throwing all this out there. Quite frankly I think the Dev's are arrogant and slow to implement any changes.

I mean heck, look at how long it took to get server transfers.

The dev's need to sit down and make some real decisions on this game because quite frankly, they are just adding things as they come without any real idea as to how it will effect the current game and the future of the game. Too many empty areas, too many things that seemingly hinder gameplay.

But I'll add this: if you make eaiser leveling and and easier economy, would people play this like an FPS game and then get bored and move on? Does that effedt it's longevity? And does it matter?

CONDENSED VERSIONZ PLIXPLOX@!

>.< eyes bleed reading that sov!

CONDENSED VERSIONZ PLIXPLOX@!

>.< eyes bleed reading that sov!

Yeah, it's really horrible isnt' it! :confused:

And is longevity a good argument for players or for devs?
I understand devs want to keep their income longer, but pushing players to play longer just to take them more money isn't really high moral, is it?

When I played NWN2, I was able to play it straight to its end and wasn't bothered by time sinking quests. But devs only got the money from the box. Ok, but what is the limit of reasonable between forcing players to do repetitive task to stay longer and actually giving them what they want?

And is longevity a good argument for players or for devs?
I understand devs want to keep their income longer, but pushing players to play longer just to take them more money isn't really high moral, is it?

When I played NWN2, I was able to play it straight to its end and wasn't bothered by time sinking quests. But devs only got the money from the box. Ok, but what is the limit of reasonable between forcing players to do repetitive task to stay longer and actually giving them what they want?

I mean the "good" type of longevity.

First off, know that I'm the type of person who doesn't mind paying for things as long as I feel it is worth it to me. So I don't ever mind paying monthly fees because I do believe that a company needs to have a steady income in order to not only create the product, updates, invest in research and development, but also need to actually run the business.

But I also feel that players would love to have a game that they could "be" in for several years as long as it was interesting and engaging.

So, not just longevity so that the company can milk its customers. But longevity so that the customers can have a great (epic?) play experience and that the creators can flourish and support their employees.

You have a point, Sov... but economies of scale seem to beggar NC-Soft's "vision", and yours by the example provided here.

After all, WoW is high-XP rate, high-loot reward, high-everything-L2-isn't... and is the most popular of the major MMOs. From a purely business standpoint, it seems "fast and casual" is the better market plan.

You have a point, Sov... but economies of scale seem to beggar NC-Soft's "vision", and yours by the example provided here.

After all, WoW is high-XP rate, high-loot reward, high-everything-L2-isn't... and is the most popular of the major MMOs. From a purely business standpoint, it seems "fast and casual" is the better market plan.

Actually, fast and casual always trumps everything else. At least when it comes to making money.

Pop music (and even rock if you want to put it in the light of jazz/blues/classical (well, keep in mind that each genre has it's only bastard step children), reality TV, "truth or dare",. Movies, etc.

I mean, how many people just have to listen to thelonious monk, or Palestrina, or schoenberg or see movies such as "The Seventh Sign"?

there is a hardcore following for those types of entertainment.

I imagine that L2 is the same way. however, as soon as they start making changes that will appeal to a greater amount of people then they will have to deal with balancing "classic" L2 and "New, Optimus Prime" L2.

Unfortunately they are going to have to make some decisions, at least with NA/Euro L2. I imagine that many of the current L2 players are here for a variety of reasons but the core of L2's gameplay just doesn't do it for them. AS soon as games come out that have what players consider "better" gameplay and couples it with some of the things that drew them here (art design? Castle Sieges?) then L2 will see people more people leaving.

I honestly can't imagine that a server merge won't happen in the next year or two.

And quite frankly, when they eventually release L3, I don't believe players will recognize it. I don't think it will have the same mechanics that L2 had. I just don't see a triple A game being able to sustain the playerbase on grind mechanics at the time it is released.

And quite frankly, when they eventually release L3, I don't believe players will recognize it. I don't think it will have the same mechanics that L2 had. I just don't see a triple A game being able to sustain the playerbase on grind mechanics at the time it is released.

Thats probably incredibly true as they are designing the entire thing engine and all from the ground up. They wont be borrowing an engine this time, at least thats what I hear(or heard, before it got scrapped and restarted).

Stuff by Sovrath

medium paragraphs > long paragraphs > short paragraphs > text-walls

That said, what you say makes a lot of sense for the 2 or 3 peopel who would actually read it all :p

After all, WoW is high-XP rate, high-loot reward, high-everything-L2-isn't... and is the most popular of the major MMOs. From a purely business standpoint, it seems "fast and casual" is the better market plan.

WoW and L2 are opposites in many ways.
but the more things wow has at high the more the difficulty of the game goes towards low. Personally that's what put me off WoW, the fact that it was extremely easy to play, in a "here, let me take your hand and guide you through the game" kind-of-way. And that means anybody can play a game and being skilled doesn't make a difference form being unskilled.

Actually, fast and casual always trumps everything else. At least when it comes to making money.

No, no it doesn't.

In the short term yes, it is a way to 'strip mine' a lot of money fast. But the market for everything in that category is *very* fickle. (And finite)

What is hot one week, could be completely ignored in two weeks and dead forever after that. So if your the 'hot act' one week you need to make as much off it as you can then, because your extremely unlikely to go anywhere one the first rush of interest burns out. The ones who make the most money off this type of crap are the 'promoters', since they move on to the next hot thing and leave the old one to die by itself.

It also encourages those promoters/distributors to 'kill the golden goose' as it were, by manipulating the goose to an early death through changes and acts that try to maximise all the profits immediately. So instead of making 1,000 dollars a week for 2 years, they will go for 5,000 in two weeks and then look for that next 'hot 5K' for the next two weeks. Even if it takes 2 weeks before they get that next 'hot thing'. Classical 'short term' planning.

The big problem with short term planning like that, is although you 'front load' all your profits at the expense of shrinking your market over time. Which incidentally makes it harder and harder to reap short term profits like you did early on, since your market keeps getting smaller as people look elsewhere for 'better product'. (Even the majority of 'casual' consumers in your market will eventually get tired of the 10th iteration of short term 'hot crap'.)

Stuff by Sovrath

medium paragraphs > long paragraphs > short paragraphs > text-walls

That said, what you say makes a lot of sense for the 2 or 3 peopel who would actually read it all :p





Yeah, it's really bad. *must learn brevity* :eek:

I know somebody who tried out a PS. After a few weeks, he left the retail servers, and his explanation was just how much easier it was to level on the PS. Of course, that person really wanted to level up an Overlord ........

Actually, fast and casual always trumps everything else. At least when it comes to making money.

That doesn't explain WoW's longevity, nor the fact that many of its players have stables full of maxxed-out characters and are working on their next. Obviously, there is something to WoW that keeps people playing it.

While I think NCSoft was onto something when they first sat down at the table and drew up L2, I think, in the years that followed, they forgot the most important thing about MMOs that their competitors (any one of which has more players per server than we have in total): fun.

When we started in Beta and then Prelude, L2 was fun. It certainly was not easy, it was certainly difficult, we certainly lacked a lot of the bells and whistles we have now, but it was fun.

In the Chronicles since then, the game has gotten easier in some ways, harder in others... but, reading through the threads about quests, "nerf this class", "nerf that class", "omg They are such cheaters!"... the game seems to be no longer fun for a lot of people. Even yourself, Sov, admit to using the PVE grind as a narcotic to zen-out to music while drinking a beer. While this may be fun for you, I think many (myself included) would call that "boredom".

That doesn't explain WoW's longevity, nor the fact that many of its players have stables full of maxxed-out characters and are working on their next. Obviously, there is something to WoW that keeps people playing it.

While I think NCSoft was onto something when they first sat down at the table and drew up L2, I think, in the years that followed, they forgot the most important thing about MMOs that their competitors (any one of which has more players per server than we have in total): fun.

When we started in Beta and then Prelude, L2 was fun. It certainly was not easy, it was certainly difficult, we certainly lacked a lot of the bells and whistles we have now, but it was fun.

In the Chronicles since then, the game has gotten easier in some ways, harder in others... but, reading through the threads about quests, "nerf this class", "nerf that class", "omg They are such cheaters!"... the game seems to be no longer fun for a lot of people. Even yourself, Sov, admit to using the PVE grind as a narcotic to zen-out to music while drinking a beer. While this may be fun for you, I think many (myself included) would call that "boredom".

There will be power-gamers on each and every MMO you can name.

But it does explain WOW's success in the longterm.
A game that lets you play Casually does not need to fail just because you can get to the top fast.
What it does is allow the people who only have a few hours at different times of the week to play to reach the top ranks. A lot of people get tired of L2 because of the grind. If you don't bot, and only play your character a few hours per week then you are not going to reach a level where you will actually be able to go toe-to-toe with other people in PvP for a long long time. A year maybe.
In WoW you can play casually, and not get completely shafted on PvP content, you *can* pvp at any level. (the quality of it I can't really comment on, since i never really tried it.)
And it's not impossible to reach 70 playing casually, it will happen way way WAY before a casual player in L2 hits 70(which is only part of the way in L2)

So yes, fast and casual does trump anything else. How else could WoW be THE most successful MMO out there?

lol. private servers have no services at all. it's normal for private servers when admins interfere to the game process, give some clans/alliances free stuff, resolve their problems, keep eyes closed to thier cheating/botting/hacking 'issues' etc. lolz. there is less bots only because bots usually win with cheaper prices even fighting with gmshops. if private servers don't have gmshops, there was not a one around. the only service private ('free') servers work for is to accept any kind of monetary donations. now think again.

lol. private servers have no services at all. it's normal for private servers when admins interfere to the game process, give some clans/alliances free stuff, resolve their problems, keep eyes closed to thier cheating/botting/hacking 'issues' etc. lolz.

You've been playing on some pretty crappy ones then.

One I know of has a 4 GM's online at all times, holds regular events every week, answers petitions in under 10 minutes, and even stops and greets new accounts when they create a character on their servers.

No service? I think your describing official servers bud.

what services do you want? I do want only one thing - the GM's/supports never interfere with my activities. be it events, spam announcements, unforseen downtimes or whatever.

what services do you want? I do want only one thing - the GM's/supports never interfere with my activities. be it events, spam announcements, unforseen downtimes or whatever.

Uh, ok.

Single player games would be fantastic for you. No GM's ever!

in single games i cant communicate, cant teamplay and cant pvp.

in single games i cant communicate, cant teamplay and cant pvp.

Well I seriously dont think MMO's are for you.

Every MMO has GM's that are active, events, fixing game breaking bugs, unexpected downtimes...

It almost sounds like your just being sarcastic .. just to be sarcastic, but who knows.

l2 has no :)

lol. private servers have no services at all. it's normal for private servers when admins interfere to the game process, give some clans/alliances free stuff, resolve their problems, keep eyes closed to thier cheating/botting/hacking 'issues' etc. lolz. there is less bots only because bots usually win with cheaper prices even fighting with gmshops. if private servers don't have gmshops, there was not a one around. the only service private ('free') servers work for is to accept any kind of monetary donations. now think again.

Actually. you are pretty much wrong on all your points.
No service? That's retail, most private servers have GM's online at any time, forums where you can expect GM responses and IRC channels to get in touch with them if you really need it.
Daily events (pvp, treasure hunt, server-wide trivia, you name it.)

There are nearly no bots on private servers generally, on a lot of them they are outlawed, and banned frequently. Dual-boxing isn't popular either on privates.
And there is no way in hell a bot could ever compete with a "GMshop".
The server i used to play on had no GMshops, it was mostly craft/drop to get gear. There was D/C shots in shops, but mostly because noone bothered to make any. And that server was more active than half the retail ones, and thats with maybe 30 shops in giran max.
And not every server has corrupt admins. Some do, sure. But don't try to tell me they all do.

Sarcastic would be too kind.

lol. private servers have no services at all. it's normal for private servers when admins interfere to the game process, give some clans/alliances free stuff, resolve their problems, keep eyes closed to thier cheating/botting/hacking 'issues' etc. lolz. there is less bots only because bots usually win with cheaper prices even fighting with gmshops. if private servers don't have gmshops, there was not a one around. the only service private ('free') servers work for is to accept any kind of monetary donations. now think again.

strongly disagree. maybe you have chosen very bad private server.

kekeke... trolling succeed. ^^

kekeke... trolling succeed. ^^

Sure thing bud.

Sov, to your respons after my last post:

I wasn't going on about how retail should change much..
I was still talking about the automated ones. Cause I do believe we all can agree that they should be stopped.

PS: Lol I see some ppl still going on about private servers like there only was 1 kind of them :>

I didn't mind the direction this thread was at when it first began because it was inquisitive in nature, but as a general rule the discussion of private servers on the official forums is not allowed. The main reason for this is that admitting that you played on a private server is grounds for an immediate and permanent ban from the forums (and for that reason, this thread is being closed).

As some have already mentioned, NCsoft does ban private servers, and we are committed to continuing to do so. It is an ongoing effort since they often resurface quite quickly again after being shut down.