Hi this is my first post, in the forum, and I would like to get some opinions, and hopefully send some feedback to the people who 'optimise' the classes with each update.
I started playing an SE a year ago, I made C grade during C4. Back then it was pretty clear. SEs could buff mages and they could give half-decent heals. They had VR and EMP. But they did not have any skills to do solo grind from C grade onwards. In fact they were and still are the only class in the game who don't have some skills to help them grind.
I missed the part in the class description which mentioned explicitly this design choice for the SE class.
Then they were adjusted as to have inferior healing. And still no grind skills. Obviously there is a rationale in these 'optimisations' and I would like to hear it.
I've seen responses from people saying that EEs were at a disadvantage hence the SEs were nerfed. I would say that in that case one more class seems to need some re-thinking.
The same argument comes from people with bishops some times. Again if people with bishosp feel that their class is impropely designed they'd be much better off discussing how it should be.
Furthermore there cannot be a class that has no ability to solo. Either all of them can solo grind, or one of them specifically and explicitly is tagged, as 'not to be used by a player'.
The rational behind it? Decentralization of class development added to a lack of creativity and a weird, to say the least, approach toward support classes. They created more classes they are able to decently manage the evolution.
After giving VR to SEs they realized it could replace bishops as PvE healers for melee classes. Also they were much more popular than EEs because they were good for mages and melees and look way cooler. Lastly they decided that some classes were being able to grind too fast using oop SEs. Instead of just making some fine tunning to correct this or revamping the hole schemel, they improved EEs and Bishops and greatly nerfed SEs. Since there are still a lot of then around as boxed chars (or as main classes hat were never played again), they don´t feel the need to change anything. Same thing is happening to BDs now...
Theca, Full Plate Helm, swift attack pots and Dark Screamer with Focus will take you to 52 with no problem at all. I know I have done it, was pretty fast with no down time.
Now she's 60 and Levels with SLS*SLS, Blue Wolf Light and Level 60 Hatchling solo in the Catta.
It's even Better with a level 55 Wolf. SE's solo just fine just need know how play the game.
Also at lvl 50 you can speed up your lvling for 30 mins with a Transformation. Hour once you hit 55.
My SE is my main, she is 70+ atm. The set up you describe is slow, and with low damage output. I've tried it and it ain't worth the effort. The rest of the healer and buffer classes will opt for using their undead skills all the way to S grade when they need to grind solo.
So indeed, I could also go for a +6 light armor and a +12 dagger to make the SE do slightly more damage, or I could have the same undead skills as the rest ot the support classes. You will also find as you move along the game that your ability to support parties diminishes.
What you describe, could be a summoner trying to level without a summon.
When bishops and elven elders go to rift parties, or Fotd or Devastated Castle to lvl you will find the SE, laboring along with a dagger/bow killing a mob every 10 mins. You will also find the prophets do what you describe, but they use their buffs and heavy armor proficiency. You will not find the extra special super duper ability of the SE that justifies these serious built-in shortcomings.
Is there a specific reason why the SEs, do not have the solo grind skills ? Is there a specific reason why 70+ SEs cannot support well rift / aoe parties. A rift party can play with an EE, without worrying about heals. The SE which at the moment is 'adjusted' to level only with parties, cannot heal these parties. On the other if the SE did enter such a party in the first place it would be so as to provide heals. Otherwise the party would be better off with an EE. Funnily enough this is exactly what you see. Rift parties opt for EEs.
So you have a class which levels with parties only, but at the same time, it is not able to support them sufficiently.
in the first place tell me reason why a SUPPORT class should SOLO in a MMORPG???
it doesnt make sence to me :confused:
but to SEs, yes they need to change sm about the skills that this class have in PVE and PVP part of the game. The new 80+ skills for SEs are joke. The skills that SEs have are too easy to be replaced by other classes that are more needed in partys than SEs. For most partys SEs are good only to recharge witch is sad especally whan you look on theyr skillset :mad:
Slow casting is a problem for crowd control, by the time you try to sleep the monster who aggroed you would be dead. I think this is their major weakness, otherwise Wind Shackle is a great skill which reduces damage taken in melee a lot.
For the healing I'm not very experienced since I didn't play the other healing classes I can only say I tried on PTS Shillen Saint with Maestro and that was ok.
What is it with the poor SE heals. SE don't have poor heals they have poor Noobs playing them. My alliance does riff parties all the time with SE's and they do fine. you cast VR and the job of a healer is not as critical. Only time I ever have a problem with a SE as a healer is when it's some noob that goes afk or is chating on MSN and not doing they job. Yes I would take an EE or Bishop over a SE for a Healer but SE's can heal. they cast VR and that makes up for they lower heals and they heals do Heal over time also stop looking at the total heal points . SE just heal for 600+ is not the total heal you still have the heal over time healing you.
Also a 70+ SE with a Wolf that's 70+ can solo a Whole room in the catta. that's not slow XPing.
I solo Witches with my wolf only and my SE sits in the middle of the room doing nothing but a heal once in a while.
And get a Staff of Evil Sprits with Bless the Body stop running around with Useless Homus with acumen. SE casting speed sucks deal with it and get BTB 5 as an extra buff.
Root is mob parking not crowd control. It doesn't do any good against a caster, except if you move far away of course. I rather have the melee take the aggro instead.
I just reached lvl 52 with my SE.
Had Theca and Berserker blade (overenchanted though) as C-grade gear.
I could solo outside on white mobs easy and a duo in Cata with a melee (mostly daggers) was awesome xp. I could 'tank' mobs, buff, heal if required, root, debuff (wind shackle). My damage, with Focus on BB, was probably close to that of my DD companion.
Now I'll try BW light + duals. See how that will go!
With SE M defense caster don't hurt 2 much. I never have a problem with them but i also try have top jewelry all the time.
Root is better Mob control till the melee takes the argo. even when some one hit the mob the mob still can't get 2 you. I will take root over sleep when doing PVE anyday. it also cast fast. you should see this guy in action with a AOE pull gone bad.
He can root a room and rez the Poler and live to tell about it.
Oh the difference is this. When you fight a monster and another spawns if you root the add you need to move away and if you sleep it then you can stay on spot. That and if the rooted mob is ranged it doesn't help at all. With sleep you can truely crowd control because you decide what you fight and when you fight it.
Root can be better you are right but overall Sleep is more flexible. To fight melee mobs only then Root is fine if moving away is not a problem.
On my cleric I used a mix of both, ideally I would sleep a mob on spawn that is clean crowd control. Sleep when it is planned, Root when it is emergency this is how I see it.
ok so you take 1 step over out of the way how hard is that? and you know how many range mobs there is? not many at all and the few that are around hell just cast sleep on them then (get +4 witt). :p
When you enter a place, you want to fight one mob at a time.
If you do it well you will Sleep/Root monsters as they spawn this is crowd control. There is no reason you need to use Root over Sleep, unless you are afraid to hit one of course.
Crowd control is just smoothing things on a place that would be hard to handle otherwise.
But what you said is true, Root is better if the pull went wrong or any other emergency.
You will need to play solo some times. If the class is your main, you will find that sometimes, a party is quite simply not available. You can find other things to do, but you don't have the option available to all the other class in the game, to grind solo.
Ashley Hunters claim about heals is inaccurate. He is still quite low in the class, and he hasn't encountered the limitations. I don't see any mention of the aoe support of the SEs, so I am not quite sure how much experience he has in parties and such.
Anyway SEs top at 780 hp healed (lvl 75). That's not enough for rift parties 70+ or hero rift, not even enough for disciples , FP, DO aoe. But the heals is the reason you would enter a party to begin with.
Also as you play the class you will find that, being limited in the amount healed, means that you need to use your heal skills more often. So in SOME parties it can be overcome at the expense of consume MP very fast, and becoming a bottleneck to the party.
Now you solo with a wolf and a light armor set and +6 sls*sls. I don't see your xp rate to judge if its adequate or not.
While you do that, an EE/bish/PP can simply go to deva castle and two/three shot the mobs. Do you 2/3 shot the cata mobs ?
Most likely you don't and whatever xp you manage to get you lose some of it to your pet.
So you have found some workaround, to overcome the non-existence of solo skills, but that is not much of an explanation into why the other 3 support classes have grind skills and the SE doesn't. Furthermore as you move from the early stages of the class and you become experienced in it, you will find that your solution becomes more and more inefficient COMPARED to the other support classes, who will keep nuking undead happily all the way to 80.
In fact while you will keep labouring with the wolf you may occasionally run into a pp with DC soloing mobs in deep WOA, or TOI. May I suggest that rather then using a pet, you roll a destro or glady ? the solution you propose is basically toi have someone / something xping you, in return for a percentage of you earned xp. So you may as well go all the way two box, with a melee class.
Again the point is not so much what sort of band aids can one come up with ? The question why is this class degraded so much if its presented as one possible choice for a player to enter the game ?
So I would prefer to see the class restored, debugged rather then trying to come up with limited bandaids.
Second my main is 77+ and I do hero riff with 70+ parties with a 75+ SE (live not boxed) as a Healer for the party. And with 760+ hp and heal over time you guys tend forget about the heal over time. I'm a dagger with VR4 from the SE cast on me and NM Light for my armor and With me a dagger tanking we do just fine. I have +5 Jewelry so i soak up the Magic damage with my Wind Rider which has good M defence in the first place and NM Light adds to that.
I use +10 SLS*SLS on the SE and tell you the Truth the Wolf kills so fast with almost 2k P attack that I mostly sit it's really a Waste of SS for me join in and help beside the spawn can't keep up with The killing in a full 8 mob room. I'm talking about 4X HP mobs with over 20k XP per mob. which breaks down to about 11K with pet but your also lvling the pet to keep up with your lvls.
And what Gring skills a PP have? they have no VR piss poor heals and worst dex and P attack then SE and no undead nukes.
Your Bish & EE's will soon run out of mp and have to regen while my SE "Has no down time" 50k Beast shots and you can hunt till your numb. No the SE can't hold that much but the Wolf can you only put 3k in your inventory at a time.
Wolf can't hold shots but but they can hold beast shots. then you just grab about 3k bsps for heals and 25 Greater swift Attack pots and Grind
Just look at the Stats of a Level 67 Wolf with just SE buffs and you tell me if you can't Solo just fine?
The HOT part of an SE's heal is fine for soloing and for group healing when a place is not too demanding. It's lousy when the healer is having to chain heal, as in a pole party or a RB, because the HOT part gets wasted, and theSE ends up running out of mana really fast. Anyways, as Ashley explains, an SE can be soloed. But since they don't get any level 40+ skills for hunting undead, and they don't get any heavy armor masteries, it's not as easy as with some other classes.
I have a SE main (see sig). Yes, I solo'd a lot until like mid-50, and until those levels it does work, kind of (xp in a duo with a real DD, e.g. in enchanted valley, is of course much better). But in the 70s it just is not worth it anymore. Yes, you CAN kill mobs. Yes, you can get a wolf and kill things faster (but he eats up xp, so in the end it still sucks). But the XP is lousy, and you need a whole separate "DD" equipment set (light armor, good weapon). A duo with a nuker is much, much better xp, as is a duo/trio in some cata with a bd or some other DD. There is no comparison at all, especially since at 79+ the places you can go solo xp are limited.
Now look at EE/Bishop. They go to rift and one-shot the x6 hp mobs there with turn undead, for 60k xp a pop, or maybe they take one/two extra people and do the same in pagans. Even at lower levels, a EE/Bishop can just go out and nuke undead mobs with might of heaven, mp herbs, invocation. SE never has this choice because disrupt undead just plain does not work anymore on mobs lvl 60+, so the SE has to "manually" kill mobs.
About heals: SE heals suck. They are adequate if you go duo/trio in some catacomb or if you do a nuker duo. But if you go in ANY higher level (70+) spot where people actually get hurt by more than one mob at a time, you will be at half mp or lower after the first pull. This is not just "oh well, then the SE has to throw an extra heal", people DIE because the SE heals do not have enough heal/second. Go e.g. to hero rift and enter the martyrs room or the archer room (yes, usually you skip those, but sometimes you used up the chance card and just want to stay in). On A grade robe users, the archers crit for 1.5k+ damage. If someone manages to get aggro from two of those, the damage will pile up faster than the SE can heal. Martyrs room, one martyr explodes and hits the whole party for 1k - 1.5k damage, SE does a group heal, everybody gets healed for 600hp or so, next martyr explodes, again everybody gets hit for 1k - 1.5k damage, maybe somebody actually gets a magic crit. Bring out the bres. All the time a Bishop could major group heal for instant 1.7k hp+ or do a balance life for 123 mp and the one who was nearly dead is nearly back to full again. Don't even think about healing in forge of gods or in a darkness room party. Well, this is not really anything to complain about - after all there IS a class in game which is supposed to be the good healer, and it is not the SE. Although of course many people back in prelude/ct1 started a SE because they wanted to play a HEALER, and the SE looked attractive, with buffs nearly as good as a prophet and heals nearly as good as a bishop (and better than a EE). And now it has come to the point where sometimes a SE gets told "don't you dare use greater heal or greater group heal, you will push buffs off!" - in such parties, the SE is reduced to the same healing power as a prophet...
Again, I would not complain about the incredible heal nerf if a SE was actually good at SOMETHING.
I go in the Hero Rift and yes the The Archers hurt but that why you go in with a Skilled Dagger (me) or a Tank with hate. I'm sorry but this must be sorry groups because we do Hero riffs all the time with just a High 74+ WC (not even a Doomcryer yet) and SE (1 sometimes 2) no bish, no EE and we don't skip and make it just fine.
(Use VR Guys it does work and Greater Shield in the Riff is Better then Greater Might)
Yea sometimes it's a mess but we get the job done. I seen 2 types SE's.
SE's That Rock and know they limits and how play they class.
SE's that just flat out suck and wine all the time. (reroll damit you will be doing us all a favor). Don't get me wrong I seen stupid sorry [censored] Bish also. Never seen a Dumb EE.......noob EE's but they do try at least.
Also SE are good with buffing not the best but they good. EE buffs sucks compare to SE. And unless your a Nuker I take SE's POW over EE's POW any day. Bish has best Heals but they Buffs suck
also.
SE's Are a Hybrid class. They Have good buffs and Decent Heals and they get the Job done.
You need 2 solo sometimes? that's what Transformations are for. Buff up transform and roll out LOL.
The question again is not whether you can come up with some off the wall ideas to cover the deficiencies of the class. The question is why is there a class (one class) ONLY ONE CLASS in the game with no solo skills.
On the ashley motif, here is an idea to xp SEs really fast. Roll a destro get him to 77. Roll a bishop, get him to 77. Roll a PP get him to 77.
You did it ? Excellent :)
Now party your SE and go to the forge. See ? the SEs can level. Sometimes people just need to write something, anything, so they veer off.
Why bother with any ineffiecient and very expensive stuff you can come up with to cover the errors in the design of the class ? The question why is this class still bugged ?
The question is not what 'patches' you come up with to try and cover the deficiencies of the class.
BTW I have a 76 SE and I've been to every area of the game except epic bosses and hellbound. I've done many types of parties. So i *really* know what I am taking about. That's why I don't comment on the plated leather sets and sls*sls, and the heal over time. Yeah get a 76 SE to do you 760 heal + HOT or get a 60 EE. The ee will give you 1K of heals and you are much better off.
When your SE gets some lvls under his/her belt, try to find those healer rift parties so that you are on the same page.
In the mean while I am off to find a lvl 78 wolf to xp me, since the class is *bugged" and it can't solo like ALL the other classes of the game. Mind you the other classes can use the wolf too. As in using their SOLO skills PLUS the wolf.
Or I can re-roll. Sure that's why I rolled he class. To re-roll after months when the class is rendered almost unusable. ANy more bright ideas ? Should I re-roll game too ? Please guys give reasonable comments.
Oh and hero rifts with one SE on official server are a no-go. If you stay inside and xp anyway. Are we talking about the same servers. Official servers ? Unless when you say you do hero rifts, you mean you keep jumping in and out, till you get ONE specific room in the rift ? Does that sound closer to what you do ?
Guys if anyone has a real ideas/guesses as to why the class is like that, I would really like to know. If people don't know the stuff we are talking about, they should read the post more and comment less. Everyone starts a noob, but you are not supposed to stay there :)
Tbh, I dont see how EEs/Bishs should solo undeads "till s grade". I tried a Bish with a SE oop on PTS, even at x6 xp rates I didnt make a lvl in cemetary at 52+ before both were oom (SE used invoc).
As for transformations: even if they last 30min your buffs do only last 20min, also without spending 50m+ adena per scroll you only have access to 2 transforms->you can solo for a total of 2 buffrounds each 4 hours...
@Ashley: Why the hell would you spend 150m on +10 SLS*SLS if you only sit on the ground and let your wolf kill the mobs? :O
EE, BP have nice skill called Turn Undead on 56 lv, on 40 they get Might of Heaven + selfbuff holy weapon = not cheap and easy way to solo EE, BP but you can do it without buying +++ weapon or pet, not talking about what duo EE/BP can do in rift or on undeads outside
SE is considered as healer class from NC but still is not really a healer with 750+ hp + hot. Try to go with wc 76+ that has enchanted his hot heal with power, youll see its stronger than SEs party heal...
If SE would have better pow, not only from the behind dmg thing it would help.
If SE would have unique buff that would be needed in pvp or pve that none other class got it would help.
If SE would be the best recharger in game it would help.
If SE could enchant heal skills it would help.
If SE would have trance it would help.
If SE would heve nice debuff, dot, drain skill it would help. (not the crappy 81 skills)
not much changes needed to the class to be a good class again but why they dont change/add good staff to SE you should ask NC developers
@Ashley: Why the hell would you spend 150m on +10 SLS*SLS if you only sit on the ground and let your wolf kill the mobs? :O
The SLS*SLS had belong to my WC that used them till about lvl 70 When I got my WC an A grade weapon. So i just gave them to my SE that lvl with it till My wolf Was High enough to take over and I just never sold them becasue I end up using them on my glad Sub till she was A grade and now she Use my WC A grade Duals. In fact my BH use them also. So the SLS*SLS get used a lot. ;)
Oh and hero rifts with one SE on official server are a no-go. If you stay inside and xp anyway. Are we talking about the same servers. Official servers ? Unless when you say you do hero rifts, you mean you keep jumping in and out, till you get ONE specific room in the rift ? Does that sound closer to what you do ?
Everyone starts a noob, but you are not supposed to stay there :)
I said I do Hero Rifts With a Group not Solo read the post. I'm far from a NOOB. I have been playing over 4 years and I played every Class thanks to PTS even end game.
I only Play Live on Lionna and PTS no other server. No SE don't have any Solo skills but they have some of the best melee buffs and with that you don't need mega heals. When we do Hero Riff we have a real tank (DA) real DD's (SH, PW, TH, BD, Destroyer) and SE and some times we get lucky and have a WC. We don't Skip rooms.....I repeat we don't skip rooms and we sometimes do the RB depends if the SE has enough mp and our buffs are good for at least 10 mins. You must be one of the go AFK SE's that's why your party can't do rifts try staying at the keyboard for once. ;)
If SE would have better pow, not only from the behind dmg thing it would help.
If SE would have unique buff that would be needed in pvp or pve that none other class got it would help.
If SE would be the best recharger in game it would help.
If SE could enchant heal skills it would help.
If SE would have trance it would help.
If SE would heve nice debuff, dot, drain skill it would help. (not the crappy 81 skills)
not much changes needed to the class to be a good class again but why they dont change/add good staff to SE you should ask NC developers
sorry OL not better Buffer then SE. you show me one party that would take a OL as a buffer over a SE and I will show you a NOOB party. OL just a CP batt.
PP is for an archer try have a melee solo with PP buffs in the catta and your PP run out mp. (you have take breaks) But you can solo with a Melee and a SE till you run out of SS (no breaks) I know I do it every day.
The new Buffs are nice in Ct1.5 with M defence and Empower as 1 buff and DW and Focus as 1 buff. SE are Much better Recharger at 81+ with mana gain.
They don't need Trace they have root it lands good and last longer. they get AOE root (love that skill) at 81+
I agree on POW that needs a major boost. I like it but COV is 10X better.
If SE would have better pow, not only from the behind dmg thing it would help.
If SE would have unique buff that would be needed in pvp or pve that none other class got it would help.
If SE would be the best recharger in game it would help.
If SE could enchant heal skills it would help.
If SE would have trance it would help.
If SE would heve nice debuff, dot, drain skill it would help. (not the crappy 81 skills)
not much changes needed to the class to be a good class again but why they dont change/add good staff to SE you should ask NC developers
sorry OL not better Buffer then SE. you show me one party that would take a OL as a buffer over a SE and I will show you a NOOB party. OL just a CP batt.
PP is for an archer try have a melee solo with PP buffs in the catta and your PP run out mp. (you have take breaks) But you can solo with a Melee and a SE till you run out of SS (no breaks) I know I do it every day.
The new Buffs are nice in Ct1.5 with M defence and Empower as 1 buff and DW and Focus as 1 buff. SE are Much better Recharger at 81+ with mana gain.
They don't need Trace they have root it lands good and last longer. they get AOE root (love that skill) at 81+
I agree on POW that needs a major boost. I like it but COV is 10X better.
- have you ever been in full 78+ nuker party? If yes, you would know no need for SE there (only if they cant find EE for recharge they take SE)
- whan meele go off just with PP buffs they go to places where no heals needed coz they kill too fast or drop herbs, most meele box more WCs than PPs anyway, not talking about 76+ BD with vr dance = no need for SE
- 2 buffs in 1 are nice, do you know where to get those SBs for tham?
- EE>SE in recharge. Do you know that EE got clarity + better mp pool + better mp regen + faster cast speed + mana gain?
- did you ever tryed to root an full buffed archer/mage and run away from him? 80% of time the root wont land and if it lands archer/nuker range > root range... 90% of time you will just die. Did you tryed the aoe root on PTS? The land rate is hahaha, the dot part is more hahaha and for that youll grind to 81lv. Look at BP/EE 81 skills and compare.
If SE would have better pow, not only from the behind dmg thing it would help.
If SE would have unique buff that would be needed in pvp or pve that none other class got it would help.
If SE would be the best recharger in game it would help.
If SE could enchant heal skills it would help.
If SE would have trance it would help.
If SE would heve nice debuff, dot, drain skill it would help. (not the crappy 81 skills)
not much changes needed to the class to be a good class again but why they dont change/add good staff to SE you should ask NC developers
sorry OL not better Buffer then SE. you show me one party that would take a OL as a buffer over a SE and I will show you a NOOB party. OL just a CP batt.
PP is for an archer try have a melee solo with PP buffs in the catta and your PP run out mp. (you have take breaks) But you can solo with a Melee and a SE till you run out of SS (no breaks) I know I do it every day.
The new Buffs are nice in Ct1.5 with M defence and Empower as 1 buff and DW and Focus as 1 buff. SE are Much better Recharger at 81+ with mana gain.
They don't need Trace they have root it lands good and last longer. they get AOE root (love that skill) at 81+
I agree on POW that needs a major boost. I like it but COV is 10X better.
- have you ever been in full 78+ nuker party? If yes, you would know no need for SE there (only if they cant find EE for recharge they take SE)
- whan meele go off just with PP buffs they go to places where no heals needed coz they kill too fast or drop herbs, most meele box more WCs than PPs anyway, not talking about 76+ BD with vr dance = no need for SE
- 2 buffs in 1 are nice, do you know where to get those SBs for tham?
- EE>SE in recharge. Do you know that EE got clarity + better mp pool + better mp regen + faster cast speed + mana gain?
- did you ever tryed to root an full buffed archer/mage and run away from him? 80% of time the root wont land and if it lands archer/nuker range > root range... 90% of time you will just die. Did you tryed the aoe root on PTS? The land rate is hahaha, the dot part is more hahaha and for that youll grind to 81lv. Look at BP/EE 81 skills and compare.
- im glad we agree at least at 1 point :eek:
Yes I did try it with a +10 Weapon and the land rate was pretty good helped us own a TH group on hellbound as for The DOT all I can say is WHY? WTH was the point in the DOT I can regen Faster then the Damage it does
and this +78 Nuker party don't want emp? not eveyone has scrolls.
and far as mellee what happens when you need aa?
O well I don't have a SE I just have PP so I will buy AA at Over priced prices.
As far as the books so far were still trying figure that out.
PP for archers and SE for fighters
Just look around and see how many use SE over PP and yes WC is used but there still way more SE then WC.
77 OL has emp. I want to see that hero rift party with only one SE for buffs AND heals AND recharges.
And Empower is good for a Mellee class?
The SE don't do any recharges unless we have a WC. other then that no one gets mp and that's fine we know how make do with no recharges. Our Nukers are very good at that. one of them solo's in the Catts. Still trying figure out how he does that for hours I never could do that on my SH.
sorry OL not better Buffer then SE. you show me one party that would take a OL as a buffer over a SE and I will show you a NOOB party. OL just a CP batt.
They don't need Trace they have root it lands good and last longer. they get AOE root (love that skill) at 81+
and this +78 Nuker party don't want emp? not eveyone has scrolls.
Just thought to quote your own words since you seem to have forgotten them already. That 78+ nuker party indeed would not take SE, unless they can't find EE for recharges. But since you didn't even know that OL gets empower, guess you've never seen a real nuker party either. Also, I still want to know your party setup for hero rift with only 1 SE for heals and buffs. Since you're using a tank with a mixed party of nukers and melee, how do you take the rift boss down with only 1 SE? Please, I really want to know.
SE heals SUCK. Plain and simple. Lvl 62 EE or Bishop does a better job at healing than a 75 SE. Root is useless against archer/nuker mobs, not to mention in PvP. Trance takes 30 mana at learn lvl 64, casts faster than you can blink and lands far better than your stupid, useless root.
My earlier reply had nothing to do with your melees, it was just a comment to your ignorance about OL buffs, but seems that reading comprehension is a rare skill on these boards.
sorry OL not better Buffer then SE. you show me one party that would take a OL as a buffer over a SE and I will show you a NOOB party. OL just a CP batt.
They don't need Trace they have root it lands good and last longer. they get AOE root (love that skill) at 81+
and this +78 Nuker party don't want emp? not eveyone has scrolls.
Just thought to quote your own words since you seem to have forgotten them already. That 78+ nuker party indeed would not take SE, unless they can't find EE for recharges. But since you didn't even know that OL gets empower, guess you've never seen a real nuker party either. Also, I still want to know your party setup for hero rift with only 1 SE for heals and buffs. Since you're using a tank with a mixed party of nukers and melee, how do you take the rift boss down with only 1 SE? Please, I really want to know.
SE heals SUCK. Plain and simple. Lvl 62 EE or Bishop does a better job at healing than a 75 SE. Root is useless against archer/nuker mobs, not to mention in PvP. Trance takes 30 mana at learn lvl 64, casts faster than you can blink and lands far better than your stupid, useless root.
My earlier reply had nothing to do with your melees, it was just a comment to your ignorance about OL buffs, but seems that reading comprehension is a rare skill on these boards.
1. I never Said I didn't;'t know OL have EMP I known for a Long time OL have emp. I was not taking about a Nuker party when I Said SE better then OL. I was talking about party in general. She Said as a Buffer OL>SE which is not true. And I said name a Party that would take a OL over a SE. The 78+ Nuker party would have to be in the same clan in order for that 2 work. SE can be clan less and Still work duh!. Read the post plz next time.
2. If you have a Good Tank and the Party like I said you don't need that many heals with vr 4 in the riff. I'm wearing NM light at 77+ with an A grade dagger and I hardly need any heals in the riff and I'm tanking sometimes. In the Room with the 6X mobs our warlord pulls the mobs first and all the other rooms the HK pulls first.
3. You ever did the RB in The Riff? He's not that hard and don't hit that Hard. Hell I tanked it with a WC using Soul Cry one time. Granted we had 3 BOX not even Live SE's that time with a Destroyer and PR and BD we took the RB out got a good drop in fact. But we have done it with 1 SE and A Hell knight as a tank. All I do is Riff and Cattas I don't even Hunt any place else. Why because I hate running around and it's a lot less running around in the Riff and Catts. Plus I like getting Seal stones.
4. I can solo a Full 8 Mob Room at Dark Omen with my WR my Wolf and A BOXED SE that's only lvl 63 and I only stop for SS other then that no down time. If I can do that with A Box SE it's sad people can't do it with a Live one.
EE and Bishop have Better heals but with they Buff I can not Do No# 4 I would end up killing they MP needing heals the we end up with Down time.
SO If I could only have a PP, EE, Bishop or SE I would take the SE.
WC is nice but if the SE is high enough to recharge me i still take the SE if it's 2 low the WC :p
I named a party that would take OL over SE. I run a constant nuker aoe party, every day. Besides, only the nukers need to be in same clan as the OL.
I also find it funny that I don't see me claiming one buffer to be better than another based on my own hunting preferences, unlike you do. If you want to limit yourself to hunting in only rift/catacombs/necropolii, do so. That doesn't mean that others are as clueless as that. For solo/duo, SE is a good enough buffer, true. For a party larger than 5 members? Don't make me laugh.
You claim to have tanked the rift RB with a WC. Ok, you might stay alive, but tell me how the hell do you keep the aggro from an archer or a destro? And no, I don't hunt in hero rift since that is both a waste of money and time for my main. The only reason for me to go in hero rift would be to level soul crystals.
I didnt read this for few days now but you made mine day Ashley :eek:
Ill just say, get in full aoe fog party with 78 OL, or in mos party where you pull 8+ angel grups, or go kill in full party few dinos, or go pole varka/mos/fog/..., or full archer in IT and so on, than please let me know if your party survived on SE heals, SE buffs or could go 24/7 just with SE rechargers
PP is for an archer try have a melee solo with PP buffs in the catta and your PP run out mp. (you have take breaks) But you can solo with a Melee and a SE till you run out of SS (no breaks) I know I do it every day.
Hmmm really I know melee that only lvl with a PP non stop. No mp breaks. PP is for Archer/DD/Mage/Tank. Look up their buffs. They have the best in the game. Face it they gimped SE. It still has it uses. I use a SE/EE combo. Those classes working together make a nice healer/buffer/recharge.
OL is not a party buffer. It's a clan buffer.
Is a very nice buffer for a PvE party thats all in the same clan but how often does that happen?
I do run a SE/EE combo with a OL for the buffes that don't they have. But then they are all my toons. Being they are all in the same clan it a nice setup for buffs. OL has a lot of buffs though from all classes in one package. Yes if I had to choose between them I think I would choose the OL over the SE. But like I said again if the OL is not in my clan it is useless to me.
One class I see thats not mentioned here WC the true party buffer. Like a OL they combine alot of buffes you can only find spread thur the other classes. Each buffer has something the other class can't offer though. No one class offers the all the best buffs for one type class. Yes some offer better choice for solo. But party should be a mix of buffers/healers.
Each party needs to choose the best combo for class type and mobs.
Why do you use 2 instead of 'to'? You post quite a bit so I see a lot of what you write and it is very...annoying...after a while. I'm not suggesting that you change how you write or anything, i'm just curious. :D
Well uhm, I dont really know what to say here ^^
My main is SE, Ive been an SE since beta O.o
I think i tried all support classes and i still stick to my SE as my best class.
Get in your mind that healers are not even supposed to be soloing (Enhance why so much rerolled :( )
I still greatly enjoy my SE...and still needed in everything my clan/ally/friends do... I can easily keep a pegan party up for 12 hrs in a row (ok Pow helps :P ) ..when we are out of shots, I soe and go to track and recharge our dworf ^^, some mages still enjoy having an active SE, and have someone taking care of the buff and recharge and picking stuffies for them rather then being xp-***. if I have to run somewhere to get to ppl...i just root the aggros and run...
I sincerly have nothing against my SE for pve ..but for PvP..ffs NCSoft do something cause this is terrible... >.>
maybe a self 10 seconds UD or celestral or... i dunno... just a little something to give us a chance to do something cause god knows ppl attack healers first >.<.
Why do you use 2 instead of 'to'? You post quite a bit so I see a lot of what you write and it is very...annoying...after a while. I'm not suggesting that you change how you write or anything, i'm just curious. :D
He use 2 instead of to
4 instead of for
he use a Picture of an Eye for I
Over the years I end up picking up the 2. so guess it's part of me now hee hee.
Hope that helps you ;)
Back on Subject right and most of the people I know that have a PP for a buffer rerolled a SE or made an SE as a (2nd) buffer. so they end up 3 boxing.
I don't know why she has 2 stop using 2 when she means to type 2 I mean it's not like it's a big deal if someone types 2 it's not like this is a business document where you can't just put 2 so idk what's wrong with 2 but there's nothing wrong with 2, 2 infact is a commonly used number, it takes 2 to tango, jus tthe 2 of us, us 2 went on a date, a couple is 2 a pair of socks is 2 socks 2times the charm 2 late 2 early 2 much 2 soft 2 be or not 2 be that is the question.