You know, I hate to say it but I doubt NC is ever going to be able to do anything about bots. So.. What can the player population do. I heard in Korea botting is so frowned upon its actually kept to a minimum because botting is that hated.
What is it the korean players do to keep them at bay? You can't say PKing them doesnt help. When you kill bots, usually theyre afk botting. So they wont be set-up in the room again probably for a few hours or even days.
Now the problem is you need to hunt bots with your own clan, and trusted people who you know wont turn around and gank you while your red hoping your items drop. And even then enemy clans can come attack you when your red and your whole clan can lose millions of adena worth of items. Just because they wanted to kill a few bots.
Is there someway the legit player population could band together to hunt down and destroy bots to the point where it is too risky for the average player/farmer to use these programs.
At the very least we could find a way to limit bot useage to the farmer companys with bot trains of D grade characters. We could create an official bot list for each server, where you can report characters for botting, and they could be added to the list as long as there was sufficient proof.
And as far as determining who is botting and who isnt, bots arent very hard to detect, there are many ways to test a character to see if they are botting. Simply by the way they react to your attacks and the way they converse.
Someone could even start a website dedicated to building a database of known botters, and a list of reports from different players. And a search feature so you can search a characters name to see if they've been reported.
Think about all the work that goes into sites like L2 Warehouse, Why cant other members of the player population dedicate themselves to making websites with the perpous of shunning bots from L2.
Im sure there are many more ways of controlling the bot population. I ask you is this really unstoppable, do we just have to sit back and wonder what this game would be like without bot adena inflation, and an overpriced economy?
I believe this could even increase the subscriber base to the game, I myself know many people who would give L2 another chance if news spread of an overthrowing of the bot population.
You know, I hate to say it but I doubt NC is ever going to be able to do anything about bots. So.. What can the player population do. I heard in Korea botting is so frowned upon its actually kept to a minimum because botting is that hated.
What is it the korean players do to keep them at bay? You can't say PKing them doesnt help. When you kill bots, usually theyre afk botting. So they wont be set-up in the room again probably for a few hours or even days.
Erm..has nothing to do with the player base.
The korean GM's are just on the freaking ball when it comes to banning them. You also dont have a ton of chinese due to the KSSN.
When very large % of userbase use bot themself for leveling purpose, how do u want to make em stop "farmer-bots" ? )
Give up this idea, either GMs will come up with the plan or we are bound to play with what we have there )
Best thing u can do for bot train is to train it, pking cost u too much to be effective.
i understand you good intensions about the community and what we can do, BUT answer me this Why to do it? is not my job... my job ends when i pay my monthly fee, after that is all about pleasure. what we can do if you ask me... cut down your second account...you know the one that you, me and everyone else box in order to xp, pvp. yes that account give them less for few months and they might think to hire GM's.
This game was extremely inovating from the begining... they give the market to players and they had in mind that the market will be moved by clans and alliances not individually. They thought that this game will bea real on line game. yes is our fault that B_Ts and e_ _ _ _'s are around. and what we do? we buy 2 and 3 accounts to support our main toon.
We have our share about what is happening i agree but if you petition you will understand alot of things
The Problem is not just with farmers. a Lot of real players Bot also.
As much as I train and PK them they still come back the next day and you just have to do it all over again.
What do you do?
Find a room or area that you like and train and pk that bot group only don't try get rid of all of them becasue you can't.
I have train a whole catta and by the time I was done bot trains were already back up and starting 2 hunt again. So what did I do take 5 mins out of they botting? big deal!
Find a spot you want focus on that group everyday and if your lucky like me they will get the hit and get some one get rid of you or they will move on.
For me they move on they just don't want mess around with a 77+ WindRider in top Gear for PVP and they 70+ has on B grade at best.
But stay on it hunt in that spot as much as possible till your ready move on 2 harder areas because if you take 2 long of a break guess what. a new set off bots will move into that area.
You can't get rid of farmers they in every game and your peers give them a reason to stay becasue they support them. If they didn't farmers would not be around.
What else can we do? Always report bots. I know, I know...the ban process is slower than we might wish and less efficient. Still, when they get banned they lose all their gear as well as their accounts, and that hurts them a lot more than a death. So even though the ban process is imperfect, it is still a help.
What else? Training is good, as Ashley said, since you don't go red. It used to be real good when items dropped but Oh Well.
Seeding bots is a way to hurt them a bit and help you. You get your seeds real fast (compared to self killing) since they are doing most of the work. The bots lose out on everything that would have been dropped had their mobs not been seeded. When you are done, train em.
Perhaps the best thing we can do is to put peer pressure on the people who run bots. If it is socially unacceptable then many people will stop. Much of the problem does come back to the player base. Players who run bots, players who wink and not when their clannies run bots, players who rationalize botting, players who excuse botting and say it help the economy or something. All of those attitudes contribute to the bot problem. After all, if paying players didn't break the eula, much botting would cease, right?
And there's always the problem that once you train or PK the bots, an S grade enforcer will show up for the "payback".
So it's a sad situation, and only sadder because NCSoft could do more but doesn't. There's not much the player base can do, especially when a lot of the bots, as people have already said, belong to actual players and not gold farmers. Some even in the "power clans" of the server, people that can log full S grade people to protect their bots.
It has a large part to do with attitude. In Korean L2 if someone is caught botting they are blacklisted by most clans. Here, if someone is caught botting and his high lvl one of the major clans on that server will probably send them tells trying to recruit them.
I can not blame it on the GM's. Our GM's do what they can, but the problem is so widespread it is like trying to bail the water out of a sinking ship with a thimble. No matter how much you think you are bailing, the water is coming in faster than you can get rid of it.
It has become a problem mostly because of the risk v reward factor. Here, if you are caught botting and not banned the community in general really could care less and you can go about your business. In Korea, if you are caught botting, you are probably not going to be thougt of well and will probably not get a decent clan etc etc. Also, it has alot to do with accessability. The majority of the korean playerbase plays from net cafes. It is probably alot harder to bot from an internet cafe that won't allow you to install software than it is to bot from your home computer.
Every day i get a little bit sadder and a little bit more upset because i'm finding more and more people using tools they shouldn't be using...
it's not so much the bots anymore (quite frankly, on seighardt there isn't all the many at all anymore, much more rare now)...
But tagged members of various clans and alliances, some of which "had" a good rep, went completely sour in a matter of seconds of me wittnessing the specticle.
And of course, reporting it to the clan leader, and then to the alliance leader resulted in "[censored], everyones doing it, go cry to someone else"
Worse yet is the current system in place, even if they find out that a specific toon has been "botted" while another toon may have the advantages of the tools at use, leading the 2+ other toons around as a "real" player, the main player doesn't get the boot because nearly "everything" he or she does looks completely legit, it's just the other players in the party...
And what tops it off is that unless they all reside under the same master account, nothing can really be done as theres no real way to tie those banned toons to the main one aside from "being in party with them".. which with the number of dishonest jerks around, claim they never knew.
No, i think ncsoft NA needs to make some minor if not major adjustments to the elua... i've suggested this several times before... but seriously, they need to clean house, it's becoming more of a mmorpg joke then anything now.
when 10% or less of the population playing is completely legit, something is wrong. Everything is broken horribly.
The changes to the ELUA need to go to a bit of an extreme policy, ban first, ask question later if there is so much as of a hint that your botting/using ilegal tools. Master accounts with any form of relation need a swift boot. A rep system that is legitimate, aka, anyone that reports another player as a bot, could potentially gain or lose rep depending on the validity of that report. The more good rep, the more power to potentially get an investigation into another player done quicker.
Also, Bring back more active gm system, we don't need to see the gms (would be nice).. but bring back moving various players to different zones.. or even to locations that would best test if they are legit/live.
Alot of tools are quite obvious, in that reguardless of what's going on, short of a full blown dc. They will heal, buff and whatnot when it's humanly impossible to know and do so quickly, course newer programs can put in delays to "fake" realism. But a good test would be to wait until any one of the toons start losing buffs, teleport and drop one another characters hp considerable.... If this is done right, should be obvious as to what happens.
IF any real players are in the group, nothing should happen to them *at first*.... But worth keeping a trained eye on them.
I'm sure there are plenty of people that would volunteer to clean up. I would.... i'd probably enjoy it. Give invulnerability and a "flag" style perma buff that we can cast on suspect players that you can't remove even if you die or overbuff. Real gm's pull up a list of suspects and volla.
If there are bots and adenas sellers it is because players buy them. So, what the players can do? Stop buying.
Thats not the way it is anymore.
Majority of these bots are players themselves, not selling it, but using it themselves.
Look at it this way. You can buy some A for what, according to the adds like 80 for 100m. Can you make more then 100m using 5 accounts at the sub cost if you bot them? Yep, easily. You could make 10 times that.
They arent tied in anyway to the "master" account, and are in effect just throw away accounts.
The first are 'adena farmers' for want of a better term. This type is gathering adena for sale for real money (ebay, whatever). What you can do to combat those is stop buying adena.
The 2nd type is "player-controlled" for want of a better term. An extra account or 3 that players have to quickly farm up stuff for their own use. Imo this is by far the higher % of soulless in the game today.
All you can do for those player-controlled bots is to continue to report them and the enforcers that show up when you grief them.
If there are bots and adenas sellers it is because players buy them. So, what the players can do? Stop buying.
Thats not the way it is anymore.
Majority of these bots are players themselves, not selling it, but using it themselves.
Look at it this way. You can buy some A for what, according to the adds like 80 for 100m. Can you make more then 100m using 5 accounts at the sub cost if you bot them? Yep, easily. You could make 10 times that.
They arent tied in anyway to the "master" account, and are in effect just throw away accounts.
i know some people that i've reported.... that are players running multi 9 man party groups around... I KNOW these people.. talked to them over ts/vent..... gaud i was ****** when he was discussing them like they were just nothing to worry about.. (hopefully i got some of his [censored] banned)
I havent taken that plunge, but I admit, I'm extremely jealous of the amount of cash they make over a month period with virtually no risk of getting banned.
Its frustrating, and probably the one reason why I'll eventually say a big FU to L2 and NCSoft in general when something better comes out.
the sheer number of people.. including the botters stating that will be the case when age of connan/stargateworlds/aion/ an numerous others due out Q2 or perhaps a little later this year.....
I don't have anything against botters... It doesn't matter for me if the guy nearby killing Road Scavengers, is actually playing his character, or the character "plays by itself", since it/he doesn't bother me.
I find it really pointless to be for several hours in the same place, killing the same "stupid monsters" , taking the same exp, and the same drops, for hours, and hours and hours, to get one level. It just (and you must admin it) have nearly ANY interest and fun, and it's a waste of time. That's why botters do exist. I understand you, that you like to play by yourself and enjoy this game, but on the other hand i also understand the botters, who don't like to waste their time.
So i think that the only real solution to avoid botting, is to make the game WoW-like. By that i don't mean to change the content of Lineage 2. But to make it more easy to gather adena and get exp, and of course to change the quests, so that finishing them would not be in vain... I find it ridiculous for example, to make a quest at 61 lvl , and as a reward i get 2536 adena... 2536 adena is not enough even for a 5lvl char, are you kidding me?. I strongly believe that quests should play a "bigger role" in Lineage 2, and give much more rewards.
P.S. and i also strongly believe, that without botters, a set of doom boots for example instead of 2,5m adena, would cost 15m adena.
P.S.2. With your logic, we should also ban AFK-shops, because the owners of these characters are not using their computer, but they gain things in game.
I don't have anything against botters... It doesn't matter for me if the guy nearby killing Road Scavengers, is actually playing his character, or the character "plays by itself", since it/he doesn't bother me.
I find it really pointless to be for several hours in the same place, killing the same "stupid monsters" , taking the same exp, and the same drops, for hours, and hours and hours, to get one level. It just (and you must admin it) have nearly ANY interest and fun, and it's a waste of time. That's why botters do exist. I understand you, that you like to play by yourself and enjoy this game, but on the other hand i also understand the botters, who don't like to waste their time.
So i think that the only real solution to avoid botting, is to make the game WoW-like. By that i don't mean to change the content of Lineage 2. But to make it more easy to gather adena and get exp, and of course to change the quests, so that finishing them would not be in vain... I find it ridiculous for example, to make a quest at 61 lvl , and as a reward i get 2536 adena... 2536 adena is not enough even for a 5lvl char, are you kidding me?. I strongly believe that quests should play a "bigger role" in Lineage 2, and give much more rewards.
P.S. and i also strongly believe, that without botters, a set of doom boots for example instead of 2,5m adena, would cost 15m adena.
P.S.2. With your logic, we should also ban AFK-shops, because the owners of these characters are not using their computer, but they gain things in game.
Some of that is the funiest thing I have heard (ok, the first few paragraphs are ok, I dont agree with the bot because its a waste of time thing). if we were to ban all the bots, for a period of time the economy would be really messed up, but that would probably just force people to rely more on their clans for help gearing. Go grind, take oyur clan BH out to farm a rec that spoils (I just did this to get an avadon gaiters rec. Nothing like a 7X destro 1 shotting mobs after they are spoiled to speed up the process). The economy would eventually recover.
The ban player stores is kind of funny. There is a difference between botting to gain things when you arent at your computer and player stores. One is a third party program that is NOT ALLOWD according to the rules and not everyone has access/wants access to. The other is an IN GAME implemented method for selling and buying goods. I will let you determine which is which.
As I stated, I have no argument with trying to revamp the quest system, although making it too WoW-ish would kill the soul of this game. Whats the point in even trying, if anyone can lvl a toon to max in 3 weeks of play?
I gotta catch them in the act..... alot of the ones i know are botting are running about town but not doing anything in particular to justify the call ...
NC didn't have a problem with a person having multiple accounts "Boxed Buffers". Maybe they should!?
One person, one account. Of course, how would they enforce it? :)
I'v always wondered why some personal identifier wasn't required at sign-up. At least in US require a SSN. Then at least when "account #1" is found to be breaking the Eula with 3rd party programs, they could delete ALL accounts tied to that same SSN.
Presumably they could verify a real SSN for a subscriber.
That would be my approach to more extreme treatment--you bot on a second account, your main (and clan leader if you are one, and clan warehouse if you're the leader)--goes *poof*.
Same would be possible for credit cards. If credit card "x" pays for account #2 (which is found breaking Eula) then account #1 and account #3 paid by that same card go *poof*.
I think they already do it with the credit card, ban every account on that card. although i'm not sure, never been banned :)
It's just what I heard.
Anyway, a lot of people pay w/ time cards, so that ruins the CC thing.
SSN wouldn't work for the NS/EU servers, because every country uses different forms of ID, fx. I'm form Denmark, I have no SSN number, but i do have another personal ID number. It would just mean a huge amount of work.
Every day i get a little bit sadder and a little bit more upset because i'm finding more and more people using tools they shouldn't be using...But tagged members of various clans and alliances, some of which "had" a good rep, went completely sour in a matter of seconds of me wittnessing the specticle.
And of course, reporting it to the clan leader, and then to the alliance leader resulted in "[censored], everyones doing it, go cry to someone else"
Then that clan leader & his/her clan sux.
He/She does not deserve to be a Clan Leader & is just promoting the problem instead of fixing it.
What ever happend to clan leaders & clans who actually care about honor ?
Guess the "fill in the blank" over-ruled them :(
Id rather be a clan leader or in a clan, who will kick out cheaters, & maybe be at the bottom as far as overall power is concerned, than to be in a cheating, mobster clan who doesnt give a......well you know.
I think they already do it with the credit card, ban every account on that card. although i'm not sure, never been banned :)
It's just what I heard.
Anyway, a lot of people pay w/ time cards, so that ruins the CC thing.
SSN wouldn't work for the NS/EU servers, because every country uses different forms of ID, fx. I'm form Denmark, I have no SSN number, but i do have another personal ID number. It would just mean a huge amount of work.
Exactly...
If it's one country only, for example like the Koreans, they have an easier time checking the KSSN's to see if it has or hasn't been used yet.
Now imagine NCSoft in the US having to check identity numbers from people all over the world. Plus, I do not think that would be even possible, since it involves government and law issues as well. Oh well.
Every day i get a little bit sadder and a little bit more upset because i'm finding more and more people using tools they shouldn't be using...But tagged members of various clans and alliances, some of which "had" a good rep, went completely sour in a matter of seconds of me wittnessing the specticle.
And of course, reporting it to the clan leader, and then to the alliance leader resulted in "[censored], everyones doing it, go cry to someone else"
Then that clan leader & his/her clan sux.
He/She does not deserve to be a Clan Leader & is just promoting the problem instead of fixing it.
What ever happend to clan leaders & clans who actually care about honor ?
Guess the "fill in the blank" over-ruled them :(
Id rather be a clan leader or in a clan, who will kick out cheaters, & maybe be at the bottom as far as overall power is concerned, than to be in a cheating, mobster clan who doesnt give a......well you know.
exactly..
but 90% of all the clans that are top, are completely ilegitimate...... and even if the clan leaders are aware, they don't do squat about it... meaning it's gotten so bad... that 3rd party tools are more common then addons that are legal in wow, are being used in wow.
What ever happend to clan leaders & clans who actually care about honor ?
Legit concerns were so C2.
This is CT1 now. I can offer my firmest promise that regardless of what clan it is, it has a cheater in it at one point or another.
It doesn't mean that there are no clans that would not invite a known cheater.
What ever happend to clan leaders & clans who actually care about honor ?
Legit concerns were so C2.
This is CT1 now. I can offer my firmest promise that regardless of what clan it is, it has a cheater in it at one point or another.
It doesn't mean that there are no clans that would not invite a known cheater.
That is their right yes.
However, dosent change the fact that the very clan thats shouting from the roof tops about how legit they are is in fact living in a glass house and just dosent know it.
It is impossible to tell if someone bought adena if they are smart. You would never (ever) know.
Obs--you're right of course. I'm one of the few here old enough to have an SSN card which says "not to be used for identification" (Lmao).
There is no single identifier--which means account tying is impossible.
It would be great if it could happen (working phone #, working address, IP address, etc.) but like the SSN, all of these have limitations.
Every concept for tying accounts together has limitation. Which means bots will get away with it more often than not.
As an observation though, "limiting" continued misuse of SSN's is shutting the barn door loooooooong after the horse has run off.
Try to transact personal business in the US without disclosing your SSN (lol). Hell, you can't sign up for Cable service without it.
It doesn't mean that there are no clans that would not invite a known cheater.
That is their right yes.
However, dosent change the fact that the very clan thats shouting from the roof tops about how legit they are is in fact living in a glass house and just dosent know it.
Not really.
There are (small "nonfactor") clans than just don't appeal to a cheater. They level too slow, they play the grinding game instead of buying some shortcuts with RL money, they don't "PvP" much... you name it.
There are clans that say "if you can prove (haha) he is a cheater, we will boot him". Some of these clans can be the server's powers. And some of them will really boot anyone who, say, was found botting.
There are clans that accept knowingly bought toons.
And there are clans whose CL is a bot.
It is impossible to tell if someone bought adena if they are smart. You would never (ever) know.
I don't know what's so "smart" in buying adena when the rest of the clan gets their stuff just by playing the game.
some cheaters jump into clans that look or even are 100% legit just because it brings there own "legitimate" stance up a bit, when they finally get to the top.. they drop and run over to the other clans that are full of it.
There are people that have played since open beta that are still under 75... and some that have spent incredible amounts of time to get 75+ and subbed several times....
but it's no difficult to see a few cases where some of these people dropped the ball either before 75.. or during or after thier subs have lvled up.... people get extremely tired after awhile of the same ol thing over and over.... and just simply move on or cheat with no care.. as either they quit.. or cheat get higher for more interest and get banned, either way they think they've come out ahead.
if a master account is banned, doesn't bother them that they can start a new one.
what i hate is the biased opinion on botting.
i can see why players do it, when they see so many people botting and what they have from it, they jump on ship and see the rewards themselves.
However, they dont realize the risk.
there entire account that they did have is gone now.
most regular players who bot and go through that arent going to bot again if they are smart,
not much longer even if they are stubborn.
To be honest they have to hunt light blue mobs to afk bot anyhow so they cant possibly be getting as much of a reward as normal players, its almost ridicoulouse to take the risk.
====================
Now we look at the farmers, botters who have nothing to do with playing the game who basically block an area by deforesting the mobs, destroying the drop rates, and overpricing everything from adena to boss jewls........
=========
the player will get banned long before the adena farmer will
=========
if it was the same treatment it would be nice, but we all know the truth and its a waste of time typing out the rest
There are (small "nonfactor") clans than just don't appeal to a cheater. They level too slow, they play the grinding game instead of buying some shortcuts with RL money, they don't "PvP" much... you name it.
Actually those are the *perfect* clans for new people coming in who wish to bot their way up.
Why? Many of those type of clans have "pretty good" rep's as semi legit. Far more legit then a big clan for example.
It provides them with a way to bot up with few people on and around, and gives them (as someone already said) a boost in terms of later on when they join the big guild in legitness. "I came from XXX, no way I botted!"
There are clans that say "if you can prove (haha) he is a cheater, we will boot him". Some of these clans can be the server's powers. And some of them will really boot anyone who, say, was found botting.
Of course they will. We were one such at one time. However, its rather pointless to even bother with in my opinion.
Although I disagree with "some of these clans can be server powerhouses". I've seen how *those* work.
Ex: Give them frap's. They say "Oh hes just on G15 /assist!" or some other crap. (Example: TD)
I don't know what's so "smart" in buying adena when the rest of the clan gets their stuff just by playing the game.
You really cant mean that. You think everyone who buy's adena is stupid?
Of course not. They are just in a far better financial situation then you. I go out to dinner at least 3 times a week for example. Some would call that wasteful since they cant even afford to go out once.
A smart adena buyer will do it slowely, over time.. in a legit guild, then leave them and join the powerhouse when they can. You see it every single day.
There are (small "nonfactor") clans than just don't appeal to a cheater. They level too slow, they play the grinding game instead of buying some shortcuts with RL money, they don't "PvP" much... you name it.
Actually those are the *perfect* clans for new people coming in who wish to bot their way up.
Why? Many of those type of clans have "pretty good" rep's as semi legit. Far more legit then a big clan for example.
It provides them with a way to bot up with few people on and around,
Many of these clans expect you to answer when you are online and gaining levels (or even just when you are online and not on your trader toon). Many of these clans expect you not to level "too fast" and expect you to take part in clan events. Taking part in clan events may be especially time-consuming for those who want just to level through using some clan tag.
There are clans that say "if you can prove (haha) he is a cheater, we will boot him". Some of these clans can be the server's powers. And some of them will really boot anyone who, say, was found botting.
Of course they will. We were one such at one time. However, its rather pointless to even bother with in my opinion.
It depends on your attitude as a clan.
I don't know what's so "smart" in buying adena when the rest of the clan gets their stuff just by playing the game.
You really cant mean that. You think everyone who buy's adena is stupid?
No, I don't. What I do think is that everyone who buys adena and still stays in a clan that doesn't buy adena is hardly smart.
Of course not. They are just in a far better financial situation then you. I go out to dinner at least 3 times a week for example. Some would call that wasteful since they cant even afford to go out once.
Look, when I go to a restaurant, I expect it to be long (sushi bars in Japanese business trips notwithstanding) and not junk. Junk food is what I don't buy for any money. And L2 without grind is actually a very poor game.
Your tastes may differ, of course...
A smart adena buyer will do it slowely, over time.. in a legit guild, then leave them and join the powerhouse when they can. You see it every single day.
But why? If you are "a smart adena buyer" going for a powerhouse membership, isn't it smarter just to buy all the stuff you need up to S-grade and then level you way up as fast as you can?
Many of these clans expect you to answer when you are online and gaining levels (or even just when you are online and not on your trader toon). Many of these clans expect you not to level "too fast" and expect you to take part in clan events. Taking part in clan events may be especially time-consuming for those who want just to level through using some clan tag.
Your talking completely hypothetical now. I disagree completely, and yet neither of us has any proof, just our opinions and experince in game.
No, I don't. What I do think is that everyone who buys adena and still stays in a clan that doesn't buy adena is hardly smart.
Again, why? Do you expect a end game clan to immediately take a level 40? Of course not. So they'll join some newb scrub guild who has at least a clan hall (gludio, gludin, maybe if they are lucky a fort) and level up there, THEN join the main clan. Thats a fact and everyone on these boards has seen it.
Your tastes may differ, of course...
Yes they do, completely :) I play to PvP, not to do the mind numbing grind up to 80. PvE is so simple its not even funny.. unless your going to argue that PvE is somehow "hard". The only reason I do it instead of botting is because of my clan. If they werent there to talk too/bullsh*t with, I'd go insane.
But why? If you are "a smart adena buyer" going for a powerhouse membership, isn't it smarter just to buy all the stuff you need up to S-grade and then level you way up as fast as you can?
Because as you have already said previously, certain "top" clans want to "pretend" to be as legit as they can. To get in, you also need to play the game. (Playing the game dosent mean L2, it means playing the cover up game)
Typical responses are as follows:
"No I didnt bot, I used G15 /assist"
"No I didnt buy adena, I sold black pappies"
"No, I didnt buy adena, I was really luck in red gem quest"
"Me? Buy adena? Hellz no, I got a ton of crap from <insert event name here"
I could go on and on since thats not even 1/10th of the excuses I've seen.
Many of these clans expect you to answer when you are online and gaining levels (or even just when you are online and not on your trader toon). Many of these clans expect you not to level "too fast" and expect you to take part in clan events. Taking part in clan events may be especially time-consuming for those who want just to level through using some clan tag.
Your talking completely hypothetical now.
Well, I'm talking about some clans I personally know. And I am an officer (and sometimes a leader) of one of them.
If you want a proof - join us :p But I doubt you will stay there for long. Even if we don't fire you.
No, I don't. What I do think is that everyone who buys adena and still stays in a clan that doesn't buy adena is hardly smart.
Again, why? Do you expect a end game clan to immediately take a level 40? Of course not.
Do you expect every "non-endgame clan" to be "legit"?
Your tastes may differ, of course...
Yes they do, completely :) I play to PvP,
If I were playing to PvP, I'd choose another game. PvP in L2 is about as boring as PvE. For a healer, PvE is actually even less boring.
I play for the feel of community. Some clan events, some market playing, some semi-random fullgroups, some RB groups, some partyprotects, some lols at sieges, some drama...
not to do the mind numbing grind up to 80. PvE is so simple its not even funny..
I understand that /assist /attack for a constant stacked archer group PvE is going to be boring. But isn't PvP about the same in such a group?
But why? If you are "a smart adena buyer" going for a powerhouse membership, isn't it smarter just to buy all the stuff you need up to S-grade and then level you way up as fast as you can?
Because as you have already said previously, certain "top" clans want to "pretend" to be as legit as they can.
To get in, you also need to play the game. (Playing the game dosent mean L2, it means playing the cover up game)
Typical responses are as follows:
"No I didnt bot, I used G15 /assist"
"No I didnt buy adena, I sold black pappies"
"No, I didnt buy adena, I was really luck in red gem quest"
"Me? Buy adena? Hellz no, I got a ton of crap from <insert event name here"
I could go on and on since thats not even 1/10th of the excuses I've seen.
So, why hurt yourself with a "legit" disguise slowdown at the time you are levelling, when you can pull one of those excuses later when you join a powerhouse "pretending to be legit"? Or even not bother with such "legitness" limitation and just join the biggest piece of trash that floats on the top?
Well, I'm talking about some clans I personally know. And I am an officer (and sometimes a leader) of one of them.
If you want a proof - join us But I doubt you will stay there for long. Even if we don't fire you.
LOL :) I'm talking about clans I know too, so, there ya go.
No thanks about joining you. I've been leading this clan for 8+ years now... I'm rather fond of its members. Probably more then most people have even been playing MMO's :P
Do you expect every "non-endgame clan" to be "legit"?
That had absolutely nothing to do with what I said. If end game clans WONT take a level 40, they will join a newb clan with a clan hall, maybe a fort, to help speed them on their way.
Legit or not end game clan dosent matter in what I said or what you were trying to imply. /fail
If I were playing to PvP, I'd choose another game. PvP in L2 is about as boring as PvE. For a healer, PvE is actually even less boring.
I play for the feel of community. Some clan events, some market playing, some semi-random fullgroups, some RB groups, some partyprotects, some lols at sieges, some drama...
I'd almost suggest you try another game, not me :)
As L2 is advertised as the premier PvP game, and not the premier PvE game. I guess fighting mobs with absolutely no brain is harder for you.. grats, I guess? :/
I understand that /assist /attack for a constant stacked archer group PvE is going to be boring. But isn't PvP about the same in such a group?
Absolutely not, no.
So, why hurt yourself with a "legit" disguise slowdown at the time you are levelling, when you can pull one of those excuses later when you join a powerhouse "pretending to be legit"? Or even not bother with such "legitness" limitation and just join the biggest piece of trash that floats on the top?
Because you still have to give the "illusion" of legitness. Boting 24/7 in FoD, VoS, or WoA examples isnt giving that.
You seem pretty bitter about a few things honestly, maybe you've been bullied in game? I dont know. Regardless, I know you've seen people leave "newb" clans like yours and your friends and join the big dogs.. it happens.
Doesn't matter if a clan is lvl 1 or lvl 10.... nor does it matter if the character is lvl 1 or lvl 85
the fact remains..... more and more people are botting... using 3rd party tools to augment themselves, to push through alot of the work without lifting a finger in fact..
There are people that have claimed and looked 100% legit that i've found running 2-3-4-9 multiple 9 man parties either themselves OR via tools.
It's VERY easy to get away with using these tools without appearing like it either, some people actually use these tools even solo while playing the game with only a few things ticked off so they don't have to master thier own skills and push the right combination of buttons to get something right. These being in PvE or more commonly, in PvP....
Nostromo, yeah, that works to, but alot of these players claim to use such tools, and hell they may even have them, but there still using these other tools that are completely ilegit.
Frankly, i'd wish ncsoft would simply drop support for the G15 and nostromo or anther keyboards with macro systems built into them. NCsoft's own macro system is yes, horrible, but it's not TO bad and it's probably made the way it is for a **** good reason.
There are people that have claimed and looked 100% legit that i've found running 2-3-4-9 multiple 9 man parties either themselves OR via tools.
Exactly my point ;)
An you'd never know it either unless you really really took the time to find out yourself through hours of searching ever day unless you just happen to stumble upon some as Judas did.