The thread where we were talking about how NCNA should spend it's resources was deleted. Is there a reason for this? I looked it over and there were no links to inappropriate places and the discussion seem in all good spirit.
We wanted to remind everyone that discussions about ToS violations are not permitted on our official forums. We realize this rule can be a bit of a grey area at times, so I'll give an example. We do welcome and value constructive discussion, such as feedback about the recent effort in Europe to combat private servers, but when the conversation turns to detailed posts where users are admitting to ToS violations or even voicing support of them, we will lock and remove the thread. Admitting to ToS violations on our official forums is grounds for an immediate and permanent forum account ban.
but when the conversation turns to detailed posts where users are admitting to ToS violations
Yah i got a mail from Alyra.
Was nothing wrong in the OP. Just that it went out of hand as usually.
Tbh i didn't really expect less. But i tryed to keep it on track >.<
I'm glad we got to discus it abit atleast and that some people got to read it before this happened. Thanks to Jacent and Sov, among others for intelligent and thought thru posts :)
Guess I feel a bit disappointed. While I can certainly understand that Alyra looked at the thread, saw a violation, and closed it I cannot help but wonder if another path could have been taken? I mean, because of a minor violation she shutdown a whole topic instead of actually commenting on it when there were real concerns in there. Just because you can hide behind a TOS does not mean that the problem goes away.
I just feel that it was a bit like sticking your head in the sand and hoping no one will see you.
An open ended discussion can sometimes be good. But if you do not even listen to people who at one time or another committed some sort of TOS violation it will be hard to have any sort of serious discussion. At one point or another NCNA (In this case represented by Alyra) will have to comment on this sort of issue.
not every topic/thread is deleted, quite often missing topics are moved into moderator/admin zones that only they can see (special forums hidden to normal users)... in which they review it all. Even keep for reference. If they beleive it gone pass the breaking point.. that's there choice, at which point they can duplicate/delete/move....
Guess I feel a bit disappointed. While I can certainly understand that Alyra looked at the thread, saw a violation, and closed it I cannot help but wonder if another path could have been taken? I mean, because of a minor violation she shutdown a whole topic instead of actually commenting on it when there were real concerns in there. Just because you can hide behind a TOS does not mean that the problem goes away.
I just feel that it was a bit like sticking your head in the sand and hoping no one will see you.
An open ended discussion can sometimes be good. But if you do not even listen to people who at one time or another committed some sort of TOS violation it will be hard to have any sort of serious discussion. At one point or another NCNA (In this case represented by Alyra) will have to comment on this sort of issue.
Respectfully
Matilda
With all due respect, I think you are not understanding the purpose of this site.
It is not a large family (company and players) where we have heart felt discussions and come to decisions on what will be done and then work it all out.
NC gives us these forums to disscuss but in the end it is a site that advertises their game. It allows for a community to come together. But in no way is this a democracy.
Sure, we can express our displeasure and I'm sure NC will make note of it and use it (or not) however they see fit. But as soon as it mars the main purpose of this site they are going to remove it.
Oh sure they could be more malleable and take it on a case by case basis (and there is some evidence of this) but that then creates more gray areas, more paths that one can go down and more places that they probably just don't want (or have the time and resources) to go.
In the end this is not a fansite this is a business site. Oh sure, people can argue back that if it wasn't for the customers there wouldn't be a business but this is how NC has decided they handle things.
A definitive "we take no prisoners" as well as a "if you have issues please send them to support".
Which is always interesting because so many people come to these and other forums always asking for info or wanting to get answers to something that they can send to support.
This is not to say that their systems are 100% effective but that is their choice. It's their business and they believe that their way is going to work for them.
Whether or not we as customers like it is our choice. But notice, the game has issues and yet, here we are. One can say that they are here because of friends they have made and that is the only reason.
Well, ok that makes perfect sense. But they are still here. And as my mother would say "when you are in my house you do as I say, when you have your own house you can then do as you want".
Thank you for explaining the purpose of this site as I am sure a reminder is needed every now and then about that. However, I have no problem with NCNA using this forum as they see fit or turning it all into one gigantic x-rated operation as it is my choice to be or not be here. If that is how my post came through I sincerely apologies.
I am simply voicing my concern in what I thought was a poor approach to a topic that raises such passion among Lineage 2 players and I will continue to do so. This is not because I feel it is my right but because I feel this to be the appropriate forum to do so.
Thank you for explaining the purpose of this site as I am sure a reminder is needed every now and then about that. However, I have no problem with NCNA using this forum as they see fit or turning it all into one gigantic x-rated operation as it is my choice to be or not be here. If that is how my post came through I sincerely apologies.
I am simply voicing my concern in what I thought was a poor approach to a topic that raises such passion among Lineage 2 players and I will continue to do so. This is not because I feel it is my right but because I feel this to be the appropriate forum to do so.
Thank you
ooo nicely worded ;)
It's not always obvious that this place is what it is.
In the past I have seen so many people post things like "this is freedom of speech" and "NC erased my post therefore... (fill in the blank).
I think that the internet has made it so that the transfer of information and the ease and facility of discussion have become so, well... "easy" that many people forget that this really is just a place of business.
In any case, Allyra is a lot more forgiving than some of our other CM's who would have just removed the thread at the slightest hint of a "bad" thread.
Thing is. The thread was not removed cause the OP but thanks to some people draging the illegal server discussion and other inapropriate things that came with it. Alyra was told from higher ups to immediatly remove the thread. That's the explanation i got.
In my opinion those bad posts should have been edited or removed and the reminder Alyra gave us should have been in both the announcements and in that very thread. Cause I alone wasn't able to keep the thread going in the right direction, with people saying things like "meh it's going this way sooner or later anyway, might aswell start".
:<
But someone else is welcome to try again :>
Alltho Jacent put it very clearly in the end, and that sadly made sense.
Now i'm gona make a forum rep thread in the suggestion section. Good day to you all :)
To be honest, I think that they have allowed us a lot more freedom on the boards than in the past. If you look at posts from a year ago or so, none of this type of dicussion would be allowed.
I always thought of us "NC/Players" as this small warm hearted community. I have to say you sure painted a icy picture, just where do we stand as players?
We can't talk about this and we can't talk about that. We can't talk about the issues plaguing the game because it just turns into a looping discussion. What is their to talk about? Nothing, thats whats to talk about!
To be honest, I think that they have allowed us a lot more freedom on the boards than in the past. If you look at posts from a year ago or so, none of this type of dicussion would be allowed.
100% agreed.
I dont know if it's Alyra's sole doing, but if it is, thanx to her because since she's here we are allowed to talk a lot more about "previously not allowed" subjects, if we stay constructive.
But of course we have to understand that these are official NCSoft boards, so we cannot run around and shout "hey, i'm playing on this private server, it's so awesome you guys have to check it out !", there are plenty of other places to do it if we want to :)