I made my usual Fierybint char on Luna last night.
While playing on TI, there were obvious bot trains, even in the starting hall trying for the first kills and blue gemstone.
Bots everywhere.
Then when I get into town, there's loads of Russian shouting.
Ok, fine. They think they can shout what they like using the russian font. But I can read a little russian and these shouts were adena selling sites.
This is in the first few hours of a new server and bots are infesting the place and dodgy shouts already being broadcast.
Come on NCSoft, you need to clamp down on this now or it'll be too late and you'll have a third Bot ridden Euro server on your hands.
I think this might be a bot killing server for me.
The ping was 170+ even with me in southern England. A crazy ping for a "so called" Euro server. Where is it set up, Moscow ?
I noticed the same thing.
I think they should of had at least some GM on the server, mind you its my own fault for not checking that at the time. :eek:
I made my usual Fierybint char on Luna last night.
While playing on TI, there were obvious bot trains, even in the starting hall trying for the first kills and blue gemstone.
Bots everywhere.
Then when I get into town, there's loads of Russian shouting.
Ok, fine. They think they can shout what they like using the russian font. But I can read a little russian and these shouts were adena selling sites.
This is in the first few hours of a new server and bots are infesting the place and dodgy shouts already being broadcast.
Come on NCSoft, you need to clamp down on this now or it'll be too late and you'll have a third Bot ridden Euro server on your hands.
I think this might be a bot killing server for me.
The ping was 170+ even with me in southern England. A crazy ping for a "so called" Euro server. Where is it set up, Moscow ?
What did u expect ? It happened before on Teon and a lot on Franz.
It was clear this goin to happen again and no one does anything about it.
I wonder how this should attract new players ? I mean they dont even have a chance to lvl up there character.
You will never get the open beta days or prelude days back because of this problem.
Beside that i dont think a lot players are willing waste there time and start from the scratch on a new server.
The new server only shows how bad this game has gone and how many people cheat and buy adena.
If you ask me the decition to make a new Euro server was very stupid. Time changes on some excisting US servers for siege and manor and advertise as Euro time friendly would been a lot better.
It was clear this goin to happen again and no one does anything about it.
I created 2 toons and had a total of 36 pk's. But that was just for the fun of a new server start. The 2 chars are now in deletion mode and I'm back on Lionna :D
ping from Holland was fine, same as Franz so maybe a router issue ?
the bot issue should have been anticipated and anyone who says the grind is to hard to start over should either stay on their current server or wait for transfer and then move over their mains anything else is just pure lazyness and deserves a ban on all accounts period.
as said on blah any bots I see once transfers are open on Luna will be reported, not through /gm but by ingame replays directly mailed to Spam.
Why any of you expect Luna to be any better than any other server when it is "policed" by the same company is completely beyond me. Nothing serious has ever been done about bots or adena/character sales in this game and I highly doubt that it ever will. The odd token jesture of a ban every 3 months then the GM department seems to go back into hibernation.
Unless they hired more GMs when they turned the ignition key on Luna (something I seriously doubt) then the situation will only get worse.
Unicode doesn't make much difference to me, since I can understand neither .... but it seems to me that they can work on filters like the ones they have for English. Even I now know how to cuss in Greek, just basically from the repetition of the same words and the response to them.
And you are saying 170 was a bad ping? Mine is good if it is in the 100s. Usually I get 275+ ping. Don't know much about those things, but I've even played very well on a 500+ ping.
And you are saying 170 was a bad ping? Mine is good if it is in the 100s. Usually I get 275+ ping. Don't know much about those things, but I've even played very well on a 500+ ping.
Well the ping was down to 80 for me today so thats a lot better. Zero lag and it all runs smoothly.
I'm quite happy starting a new char. Just made level 15 tonight and helped my funds with 20k quest from DE ville.
Bots are still all over the place but loads of "I see dead people" carcasses everywhere so people are clearing some away lol.
The idea of another Euro server is a good one as it will help the load on the other two and it also means that NCSoft are still committed to the game.
I just wish they were more cut-throat with the bots and the adena seller shouts.
Fiery, as I shouted to you in TI (XieTingFeng my toon) there is no hope for Luna. I made a toon to see how things work on a new server and the sight was appalling. I never thought logging back to Gustin would make me feel so much better. (Yeah, life seems full of surprises sometimes =.=)
Although I wouldn't mind making a fresh start, despite the "suffering" of having to work so much for gear and all, I don't think Luna deserves the frustration. In my opinion live GMs should had been around upon launch of the server. Maybe they had, but judging from the automated trains, I doubt it.
It would be nice to have an immediate action taken to remove bots from the hunting grounds especially on a new server with likely new players. However, GMs/NCSoft are looking at a long term check on proof of botting before they act.
In the meantime, bots continue.
This gives an image of an unruly and uncontrolled server.
A different idea is needed as a temporary measure to remove bots and this image. An image of which can and does cost the game players and revenue.
I have a plan spinning around in my head as I rewrite this for the third time.
well they're loosing significant creditability here as let's be honest when you see all those bots who takes them serious anymore ? let's hope their ban process is tied to server maintenance and coming Tuesday Luna get's cleaned up..
also just on the fact adena selling is now done in a language that they can't filter on should be reason enough to remove the uni code imo
the whole unicode thing is an epic failure .. I used to get those annoying spam we ARE A.D.E.N.A. come to our website and buy some now I get pms in cyrillic with what I guess is the same message ...annoying
(Please don't post links that contain content of that sort. - Alyra)
No offence alyra, I know you live in the firing line from ppl on the forums as the face of the forums, but if NCS actually did something from the beginning with Luna about the issues we ALL KNEW were BLATANTLY going to occur on another new server then ppl wouldnt feel they have to be posting links that just get censored out.
Go read blah, go to Luna and get the whippping stick out on all the ppl that break your EULA, go be as quick with ppl breaking the game EULA as you are with ppl breaking the forum rules, or it will be another wasted attempt at expansion in the game just to get 1 new person for every 99 new "automated" accounts.
Cheers.
**
PS. The very first thing i saw when i started a new toon on Luna was 2 white shouts for selling adena and 1 for advertising Powerlevelling coming soon on Luna.. all while waiting to actually get a free gremlin.......Way to go making a good impression to anyone actually of thinking of starting off in L2.....If i was starting L2 now i wouldnt bother or recommend it, but the ppl i know from the last 3 yrs keep me here :)
That is really bad info for a newbie like me start on this game. But lucky i picked Bartz
Don't let a discussion like this deter you from the game.
That's precisely what we don't want and why we're concerned.
You can play a very enjoyable game without bots being an issue. It's just to longer term players, such issues stick out like a sore thumb.
I've said it before but it still doesn't get implemented. In other games (there are other games??) a simple GM interaction with alleged bots asking a short question like "are you there" will tell NCSoft who the bots are and who the players are. First infraction is a day's suspension if no reply to the questions, which means player is not at keys. Second infraction is 10 day suspension, third is account delete.
Rather than the automated response from petition that "..if it's proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the player is using third party programming, appropriate action will be taken..", a very simple query from ANY kind of in-game support would be very helpful. How can NCSoft not be reasonably certain it's a bot train when the same train is on 24/7 for days on end?
Our GM team is aware and working to remove as many of these EULA violators as possible. I was on Luna myself as well yesterday, forwarding names to them. They've banned quite a few accounts already and more drastic measures are currently in discussion.
Our GM team is aware and working to remove as many of these EULA violators as possible. I was on Luna myself as well yesterday, forwarding names to them. They've banned quite a few accounts already and more drastic measures are currently in discussion.
and more drastic measures are currently in discussion.
What can be more drastic than being banned? I can suggest a few..
- Blocked CC numbers
- Blocked IP addresses
- Blocked postal addresses
- Blocked email addresses
Wouldn't stop them but it would sure give them a hard time changing everything - especially if the NC credit card checks do indeed check postal addresses against the cards - only so many times you can move house lol.
Even if they do those four, your missing what most botters use.
That being Timecards. You certainly cant "ban" timecards, as too many legit people use them too.
The simple solution is NCSoft needs to get tough on bots. Right now, its a long checklist before they can even ban a bot. It has to fail certain tests, and if a user gets back while those tests are going on... no ban. If he is live and botting and responds to the tests... no ban. (As long as he passes GG check)
If the situation was changed and the ban button was clicked anytime you fail even *1* of the tests, I think you'd have much cleaner servers all the way around.
I cant think of a better game on the market now, or later then Lineage 2. However, you will and are losing a massive amount of current and potential customers because of these problems. "Drastic" measures need to be taken immediately.
.... and more drastic measures are currently in discussion.
Unfortunately that's as far as these things seem to get. How long have ways of stopping adena-selling PMs been "in discussion"? Action is what is needed, not words.
Our GM team is aware and working to remove as many of these EULA violators as possible. I was on Luna myself as well yesterday, forwarding names to them. They've banned quite a few accounts already and more drastic measures are currently in discussion.
Like going to botter's home and break their knees? :) *hopes hopes*
Go go Spam, click-ban, click-ban, click-ban till your fingers bleed!
Hire [GM]Dave from Bannable Offenses (http://bannable-offenses.blogspot.com/)! I'm sure he would work for free whisky!
Our GM team is aware and working to remove as many of these EULA violators as possible. I was on Luna myself as well yesterday, forwarding names to them. They've banned quite a few accounts already and more drastic measures are currently in discussion.
Thats marvellous Alyra, i'm looking forward to the results :), thanks for the update and quick reply :) i look forward to seeing the chat clean again :) or alyra on god mode with a demonic weapon that kills in town and prevents from any chat from the corpses as well :)
in my opinion all GMs must focus on Luna server now, to ensure a good start for the server, makes botters give up, for me and i think also for many others dont want to start a char on luna, becuz i wont be playing with bots, like it was for teon and franz begining.
but there is probleme to find solution for.
as far as i know many botter are using trial code to start, so if banned they will come back 7/14 days later
I gave up on trying to lvl Mela there any time soon and just rolled an elf. You'd be suprised at the difference in hunting areas. I did 1-6 without seeing one other person around me. Shout was deafiningly quiet compared to dwarven village.
I gave up on trying to lvl Mela there any time soon and just rolled an elf. You'd be suprised at the difference in hunting areas. I did 1-6 without seeing one other person around me. Shout was deafiningly quiet compared to dwarven village.
I saw you~ ^^
P.S. Things should be a little quieter for a bit at least after this maintenance.
Our GM team is aware and working to remove as many of these EULA violators as possible. I was on Luna myself as well yesterday, forwarding names to them. They've banned quite a few accounts already and more drastic measures are currently in discussion.
Good to see someone from NCsoft actually does something about bots and other ToS violators.
I remember reporting bots on Devianne, and GMs told they'd invest it, but after a month, the same bots are still active :(
Lets just hope & pray for the legit ones that Luna won't turn into a botfest as Teon & Franz are...
On the forums here. About 70% of the time I get that msg when posting. It doesn't matter if its quick response, reply or even quote. I have to copy/paste and try the next option whether I post a 2 letter response or 200 letters. I sent in a ticket on the support page about it almost 2 weeks ago, but, I didn't even get a response email that they got it. Its starting to drive me insane! (And NO response from the peanut gallery please! I already understand that I am not your normal type person)
On the forums here. About 70% of the time I get that msg when posting. It doesn't matter if its quick response, reply or even quote. I have to copy/paste and try the next option whether I post a 2 letter response or 200 letters. I sent in a ticket on the support page about it almost 2 weeks ago, but, I didn't even get a response email that they got it. Its starting to drive me insane! (And NO response from the peanut gallery please! I already understand that I am not your normal type person)
Could you copy/paste the exact error text for me so I can forward it to our forum tech?
Good work GMs I am currently running around on Luna fooling around alitle and I have noticed a couple of spammers starting to shout and getting ban within 3 - 4 minutes. keep it up :)
Now can you fix this msg I keep getting about the form I use not being valid anymore?
I get it sometimes when im not at home.
It happens if you use a proxyserver. Proxyservers save webpages to reduce traffic to the internet.
If you get that message its prolly the proxy messed the answerform up with some old stuff he had still saved.
The only solution is before you post copy the whole text then hit renew on you browser. that forces the proxy to load the site new. After that you wont get the message.
I get it sometimes when im not at home.
It happens if you use a proxyserver. Proxyservers save webpages to reduce traffic to the internet.
If you get that message its prolly the proxy messed the answerform up with some old stuff he had still saved.
The only solution is before you post copy the whole text then hit renew on you browser. that forces the proxy to load the site new. After that you wont get the message.
That makes sense. I just got a message back from our forum tech and he said that this message appears when your forum session has timed out. It's set to one hour, so if it's timing out sooner than that, he said it's a cookie-related issue.
I logged in and created a camel on Luna. Got to the gremlin area and saw 2 russian(?) advertisements for websites that can only be keyloggers/adena sales sites.
Ran down the path to the nice little bunny flats area and saw several obvious trains. Deleted my char. :p BB Luna!
I logged in and created a camel on Luna. Got to the gremlin area and saw 2 russian(?) advertisements for websites that can only be keyloggers/adena sales sites.
Ran down the path to the nice little bunny flats area and saw several obvious trains. Deleted my char. :p BB Luna!
Good job GM, but better to have a bot detection on game guard rather than GM patrol the field. NC can make this game so I am sure that improve game guard system isn't hard. Also, make stronger rule and punishment will scare those stupid botters or cheaters more, such as: someone already said: block CC, address.... from activation.
Good to hear that things are being done. It's a nightmare trying to quest on the dwarf island.
Indeed.
I tried to help a dwarf as she was on her Honey Bear quest monster. People were stealing the quest monster !!
Then attacked her. Being a weedy lvl 15 in Piecebone didn't help me much so I died lol.
i can post an even worse link than that but i probably get banned for it.
just to give a clue.
check bartz's clan forums (not blah, just clan's forums) and you ll know what i mean
kain/seighart clans dun need to talk about it on forums because they're all experts
ok I was being harsh, but stop pointing fingers... at least make it more generalised like "just look at all the big clan's forums" it's insulting that you point straight at bartz like they're the only ones that do it, and as if they ALL do it.
kain/seighart clans dun need to talk about it on forums because they're all experts
ok I was being harsh, but stop pointing fingers... at least make it more generalised like "just look at all the big clan's forums" it's insulting that you point straight at bartz like they're the only ones that do it, and as if they ALL do it.
Unfortunately, when transfers came in Bartz received a lot of high-level people from other servers. Many of those people got most of their levels illegally (particularly those coming from Sieghardt). So naturally, Bartz is now going to be infested simply by the influx as I doubt that anyone who didn't actually XP for 18 months on their old server is suddenly going to start doing so when they start losing XP through PvP on their new one. They are all Bartz people now so you will get tarred with the same brush I'm afraid. :(
1. my words of encouragement to the nc team on luna
while i was helping a friend with the scavenger quest the spot was overrun by bots. shortly after the server was restarted for 15min and the bots were gone. that almost drove tears to my eyes :)
2. some sarcasm:
if the reason for not allowing transfers at start was "to establish an economy 1st" then it should translate into "real player economy" and not "send the automated harvesters to planet luna and the human settlers a few years later"
3. some observations from a guy that plays l2 to long (since open beta)
i really like luna. i was mad at 1st when i knew that transfers werent possible but seeing the starting areas so full of live reminded me of the good old days and why i played this game.
(my personal) conclusion:
if you really manage to step down and ban and fight the bots on a gm level the luna server is exactly as l2 should be imho and shows that this game still rox after 4 years.
I made a petition yesterday while in Gludio. I posted several names and the urls they were shouting. After about 10 mins, they were gone.
I had the usual auto style reply to my petition but someone was listening.
Thanks for that GMs.
1. sadly the sheer amount of ppl that want to cheat is in incredidble. i also spoke to some "normal" players that told "how can i compete to xy that ebays/bot ? i can only do that by cheating myselve"
it seems theres a arms race to keep up with the general leveling process and ppl feel the need to out-cheat the others.
2. sadly theres no easy way to report cheaters
if i see 50 clones in kamael named fdfdei, ghreei, kiide,... that do the armor quest automaticly, how can i report them when i need a minute to spell the individual name right?
3. sadly the number of gms seems to few
if 10-2ß gms would just walk around they could spot tons of bots and just zap them with their ban-hammer
4. sadly there seems no technical way to keep bots out
we have gameguard thats responsible to block 3rd party progs but 1minute after the update is live the 1st bots show up. i wouldnt mind an update that doesnt have that much content but 30% of the developers working on the way to encrypt client server communication that would give 3rd party programms a bit more trouble
1. Unfortunately.. that is so true. Saw tons of good people on Devianne beggining to bot/ebay.. to try and make a stand against bots and ebayers.
2. Yeah.. a way to select "%target" into a text box.
3. 10-20 GMs.. is nearly impossible.. but 3 or 4 would do the trick.. since they can move faster and port directly to specific places.
4. Yep. Basically the only way to do that.. is dumping GG.. since it doesn't do anything.. and improve Client-server encryption.. with random file checking.. for example.. an unique serial that would be updated every hour...
2. sadly theres no easy way to report cheaters
if i see 50 clones in kamael named fdfdei, ghreei, kiide,... that do the armor quest automaticly, how can i report them when i need a minute to spell the individual name right?
You know that some *real, legit* players who do this quest (manually) with as many accounts as they have might not bother making proper names for their "wooden quest toons"?
That's not to say that some of them aren't running on a script, but it's not always so easy to determine who's what, when we all need to take the same steps to do the quest.
Won't work because honest people can pay for each other's L2 accounts without having any control over what the other person does while in game.
- Blocked IP addresses
Won't work because most IP addresses are not static. You can end up blocking an entire region of people trying to get one, and even then they can find a work-around if they want to.
- Blocked postal addresses
I don't think there is anything in place to check if a postal address is legit unless a person is paying with a personal credit card. If someone uses a single-use or time card it is moot. Also see my note on credit cards.
- Blocked email addresses
Again unless you want to block all of hotmail.....
Small account bannings hurt the profit of individual farmers but don't bother sellers. Massive game-wide bannings hurt the profit of the farmers and the reputation of the sellers who can't deliver on what they sell. ;) It is effective we just need more of it. :)
They could give me GM powers to run around smacking bots... my first day on Luna, I ran across some Russian gold-spammer, and I wished I could pk him right in the town... but having GM powers would have been so much more fulfilling. hehe
4. Sadly there seems no technical way to keep bots out. We have gameguard thats responsible to block 3rd party progs but 1 minute after the update is live the 1st bots show up.
People seem to keep forgetting this, but GameGuard has nothing to do whatsoever with bot programs. It was created to detect and block keyloggers that steal login/passwords.
Remember that most of L2's player base plays the Korean version. In Korea, the majority of people play not at home, but at gaming/internet cafes. Keyloggers were a major issue there, but botting is NOT much of an issue in Korea.
The North American servers only receive the codebase of the Korean game and make some text/localisation adjustments - they don't have the power or resources to actually edit the core source code (e.g. to expand GG to block bots, or to introduce better client-server encryption). And since botting isn't an issue in Korea where the game code is actually written, it's highly unlikely they are going to change it just to deal with botting in their relatively unprofitable American market.
Actually I think youre slightly incorrect there, we couldnt play the game for very long if they werent given the tools to make adjustments and fixes for bugs and stuff. Youre right that they arent developing the new content though, that all comes from Korea. I think they could code up something for the game to be used for bots. Its not like this country doesnt have game code-monkeys... At the very least they could hound the Korean overlords for something to combat bots. Because if NCsoft America is loosing money from this, then the Korean originator is as well... just not as much since they soak their people for money. ;)
Actually I think youre slightly incorrect there, we couldnt play the game for very long if they werent given the tools to make adjustments and fixes for bugs and stuff.
Yes but major bugs that affect us would also exist in the Korean version, so it'd get fixed there and the updated code sent to NCNA. Minor bugs that relate to the re-localisation of the Korean client probably fall within the ambit of the code changes they can do themselves at NCNA.
But I'm talking of major rewrites of fundamental parts of the game (e.g. network code). THAT would almost definitely have to be done in Korea, and as stated, they don't have as much impetus to combat bots as we do, it seems.
Regardless though, I'd love to see it done. Ditch GG for the NA version and improve the client-server encryption to make bots a lot rarer.
IMHO, stopping the bots begins at the other end of the cycle.
1. Increase risk to adena buyers. They care about the accounts and adena more than the farmers.
2. Decrease temptation by manipulating the economy as necessary to make the game more fun to play as intended.
3. Ruin the rep of sellers by intercepting or reclaiming adena transactions. Taking real-world money without following through with the transaction will get them in real-world trouble.
4. Continue with the systematic banning of bots. Every little bit helps. Fewer farmers = less adena for sellers = sellers taking money for product they can't provide.
5. The sellers may switch to power leveling to supplement the income they lose. THIS is the time to "tweak" the code so more bots can be banned. They will lose face for that as well and might decide to give up on L2 for more profitable games. Without the big companies, there may be fewer programmers updating botting software. That could make it more financially feasable for NC to keep botting to a minimum.
They need to decrease the amount stuff costs dramatically, as well as up the money drops a bit.
I have considered something I have never considered before in any game; buying adena. I havent, and wont though, but it did cross my mind as a serious temptation because this game is not friendly to the new player at all.
check the last few posts made by DreamAngel on l2 g u r u as she just finished translating the upcoming release, CT2 Gracia, which includes lowering the npc prices of the items sold in stores as well adding up to low A grade items into those stores..
simple example in CT2 a B grade Kris will cost about max 8mil to buy..
check the last few posts made by DreamAngel on l2 g u r u as she just finished translating the upcoming release, CT2 Gracia, which includes lowering the npc prices of the items sold in stores as well adding up to low A grade items into those stores..
simple example in CT2 a B grade Kris will cost about max 8mil to buy..
So, to try and defeat the bots/adena sellers, the whole economy and balance of the game changes.
This is madness.
The easiest way to defeat bots is to be in-game, observant and swift with the axe.
Boot people off game there and then. If they persist over time. Delete the account.
Any experienced player can spot a bot.
check the last few posts made by DreamAngel on l2 g u r u as she just finished translating the upcoming release, CT2 Gracia, which includes lowering the npc prices of the items sold in stores as well adding up to low A grade items into those stores..
simple example in CT2 a B grade Kris will cost about max 8mil to buy..
So, to try and defeat the bots/adena sellers, the whole economy and balance of the game changes.
This is madness.
The easiest way to defeat bots is to be in-game, observant and swift with the axe.
Boot people off game there and then. If they persist over time. Delete the account.
Any experienced player can spot a bot.
It has nothing to do with defeating bots.. since bots dont exist in Korea.
It does have to do with making the game more "newbie" friendly since the majority of Korea's are well into S grade as the "norm".
It was clear this goin to happen again and no one does anything about it.
Of course they do something about it, they did something about it on Frantz as well, they banned a heck of a lot of bots on there, especially at the on set of the server. The problem is of course that the good ones aren't so obvious and fly under the radar or are simply protected or otherwise go unnoticed.
And then of course over time, they can't sustain the same level of attention to just one server. But it was a good attempt.
It has nothing to do with defeating bots.. since bots dont exist in Korea.
You keep saying that, got any proof of that? A couple of expansions ago there was a korean promo about better anti-bot measures, why would they put those up if there are no bots there?
Not to mention the bot programs come in korean and are updated constantly for korea, why would that happen if there are no bots in korea?
you realize there are 30+ korean servers and they are all heavy load? koreans actually play l2 and report any bots because each spawn is camped by active players, sort of what the beta for our l2 was like.
bots get the worst areas instead of filling all the catacombs + high level spots.
It has nothing to do with defeating bots.. since bots dont exist in Korea.
You keep saying that, got any proof of that? A couple of expansions ago there was a korean promo about better anti-bot measures, why would they put those up if there are no bots there?
Not to mention the bot programs come in korean and are updated constantly for korea, why would that happen if there are no bots in korea?
Chinese is not Korean firstly LC. The bot programs are CHINESE.
Secondly, Korean's play in netcafe's mostly, which dosent promote itself to bots as you are not allowed to install software on such machines.
There *was* a problem with.. um.. something.. I dont think I can discuss it on these boards, but suffice it to say it was a hardware solution USB wise, that did cause some problems for awhile, but that was fixed AFAIK.
I dont play on those servers anymore, but still have a account. SEA servers are also excellent for stopping bots. Not as good as in Korea, but they are for sure doing a excellent job on it. (Playing on those servers was a freaking dream.. )
the bot programs are also developed for and works on korean servers even to this day.
While I cannot comment on the netcafes (but its entirely possible some of them are like the SEA ones where netcafes run bots and/or allow it) the amount of personal internet connections are increasing in korea and more players have access to do these things from home.
SEA servers WERE excellent at stopping bots in the beginning, but that was because it was easy, the botters weren't sufficiently set up, many of them were n00bs at it, they needed a way to quickly cycle accounts if needed (if banned) etc. This created a relative dream of L2 service for a while, but then once the botters in general got more experienced the servers got more and more flooded with them, at this point the SEA servers are almost as bad as US servers in that regard.
check the last few posts made by DreamAngel on l2 g u r u as she just finished translating the upcoming release, CT2 Gracia, which includes lowering the npc prices of the items sold in stores as well adding up to low A grade items into those stores..
simple example in CT2 a B grade Kris will cost about max 8mil to buy..
So, to try and defeat the bots/adena sellers, the whole economy and balance of the game changes.
This is madness.
The easiest way to defeat bots is to be in-game, observant and swift with the axe.
Boot people off game there and then. If they persist over time. Delete the account.
Any experienced player can spot a bot.
It has nothing to do with defeating bots.. since bots dont exist in Korea.
It does have to do with making the game more "newbie" friendly since the majority of Korea's are well into S grade as the "norm".
This "newbie friendly" desire is part what's causing the changes in game now combined with efforts to defeat the adena sellers.
It seems the idea is to make it as easy as possible to level up quickly and to make everything easily accessible in shops etc. to take away the need to buy adena from outside sources. There is some logic in this but I fear its actually removing much of what made the game so addictive and enjoyable in the first place.
I accept that it can be very hard for a new player to equip himself but how far do you go in helping ?
What's worse, a game that's too easy and no longevity or a game that has an element of a 3rd party problem that has to be constantly policed ?
I'm inclined to swing for the latter.
However, an experiment on a server with a totally different drop rate for adena and most, if not all, items available might be interesting.
With little to strive for, the demand would be for ever harder Boss mobs and there would be PVP everywhere much like on the PTS.
the bot programs are also developed for and works on korean servers even to this day.
While I cannot comment on the netcafes (but its entirely possible some of them are like the SEA ones where netcafes run bots and/or allow it) the amount of personal internet connections are increasing in korea and more players have access to do these things from home.
SEA servers WERE excellent at stopping bots in the beginning, but that was because it was easy, the botters weren't sufficiently set up, many of them were n00bs at it, they needed a way to quickly cycle accounts if needed (if banned) etc. This created a relative dream of L2 service for a while, but then once the botters in general got more experienced the servers got more and more flooded with them, at this point the SEA servers are almost as bad as US servers in that regard.
Obviously they work on Korean servers yes. The lineage 2 client isnt different, therefor they'd work on any L2 server. (reason they work on Priv's too, minus L2J which has some issues and can be fixed even there)
Its my belief that its just a different mindset there, as to why there are less botters in general. Although I havent been there in quiet a bit when I went the problem wasnt all bad. (Although I was only at a AF base.. with my grandfather)
SEA servers is a bit funny really ;) If you read the boards of those programs, you'll find alot are Euro/US players who play over there now... some you'd recognize from L2 [censored] and this board even.
I think (and you probably do too) that the GM's over there *are* doing a better job then the NA version. They are a more active presence, doing a much better job, etc. You certainly cant sit there and say its worse on SEA then NA.
I agree with you that there are less bots there (Especially since its hard for external farmers to do business there), it was just when you said there were NO bots I objected.
If you read the boards of those programs, you'll find alot are Euro/US players who play over there now
Yeah, those who circumvent the block for non-SEA players. But there are a lot of SEA botters too, sometimes even whole netcafes did so and some of them have been busted (not by the gm's, but by other netcafes).
I think (and you probably do too) that the GM's over there *are* doing a better job then the NA version. They are a more active presence, doing a much better job, etc. You certainly cant sit there and say its worse on SEA then NA.
I won't specifically say its worse, they're different with their own set of problems ontop of the common ones. Like a bad rate of wrongful enforcements, inconsistant GM behavior, accusations of corruption is rampant. Generally paradise has been corrupted sadly. They're still good servers and they do provide a lot of community interaction/events which they can do due to the more creative freedom they have. (though they have to wait for everything to be translated and taken care of by NCSoft NA)