It is my first time posting.I would like to know where is the best place xping for sps(lvl72, party with shillen elderlvl 72) fod or blasing swamp?ty for your time ppl
depends on your wep and if it is highly OE'd or +3 like most of us. I hunt in FOD and get about .03% per kill. Only reason it's better is the respawn rate depending on where you hunt in FOD.
FoTD is better than Blazing Swamp regardless of the respawn rate. Most of the high M.Def mobs are Holy Weak which means they are still 2 shot with Hydro Blast + Solar Flare and the others should die in two hits with a +3 SoM/Acumen.
If FoTD is full go to the back of VoS (by Noblesse Port-In). It's good until 73.
I only get the .03% when I xp in the middle of FOD and use over-hit and it's not every mob. In reality it is probably closer to .02% per kill.
Only reason I grind in blazing swamp too is for a change of pace and inf ore and red gems. In blazing swamp though xp is probably closer to .01% per kill. Honestly I have never really looked at the xp rate in blazing swamps since I go there for the quest items anyway.
Whats really sad is I have gone from 70-72 on my main since january but I have lvl's both a WS and a BH to 55 in the same time frame.
IIRC, I got 0.01% per mob in FOTD at those levels. I think I got about 3% an hour at level 74. But it's been a while so I can't tell you for certain. Also, I was always partied (SpS / EE), never solo.
Vitality System
* Vitality System allows players to gain extra exp when hunting.
* When players go off line / enter safe zone / killed RAID/BOSS, they will receive Vitality Points (VP)
* When vp is cumulated, players will be able to level up their Vitality Levels.
* When players are hunting normal mobs, vp will be used in exchange for higher exp.
* Players’ total vp/ vitality level can be viewed from the status bar
* There are a total of 4 levels of vitality levels, at level 4 players will get 4 times the exp, at level 3, 3 times the exp.
* VP is exhausted based on exp gain, not based on hunting time.
* When players are in a safe zone for approx 8 – 9 hours, they will gain 1 vitality level. (Unfortunately a lot of us will exhaust our CPU/RAM thanks for this feature.)
* After killing a RAID / BOSS, the system will notify the players how many vp they have earned.
* During the PTS, there was a testing of killing 4 (not sure what mob), gaining 1 vitality level.
Vitality Level 0 -->1, exp will increase by 50%
Vitality Level 1 -->2, exp will increase by 33%
Vitality Level 2 -->3, exp will increase by 25%
Vitality Level 3 -->4, exp will increase by 20%
* In other words, from level 0 --> 4, the exp will be 3 times the original
These are part of CT2 PTS Korean patch notes translated(by a very generous player) on another web site
I only get the .03% when I xp in the middle of FOD and use over-hit and it's not every mob. In reality it is probably closer to .02% per kill.
Only reason I grind in blazing swamp too is for a change of pace and inf ore and red gems. In blazing swamp though xp is probably closer to .01% per kill. Honestly I have never really looked at the xp rate in blazing swamps since I go there for the quest items anyway.
Whats really sad is I have gone from 70-72 on my main since january but I have lvl's both a WS and a BH to 55 in the same time frame.
It is not normal to level so slow on a nuker. 70-72 is a 1 day gig on a Necro/SH.
I doubt it is even twice as long on an SPS/Sorc - even without a recharger it should not be more than 3 days (high playtime) unless you are leveling in some of the worst places in the game where you're taking an XP penalty on every kill.
Even then, for that amount of time you are probably killing blue mobs.
It is not normal to level so slow on a nuker. 70-72 is a 1 day gig on a Necro/SH.
/sigh
200% in one day at that level... right. Even IF your "high playtime" was as much as 14 hours a day, that would still mean that your SH/Necro is getting 14.29% an hour at level 71. At a more typical amount of "high playtime" hours, say 10 hours a day, that would mean you'd have to get 20% an hour in order to level 70 - 72 in a day. To do it in 8 hours you'd have to get 25% an hour.
The 14.29% an hour *might* be possible w/ really good gear and high level oop recharger, but 20%+ an hour at level 70+? Please... (I am, of course, talking about the typical mage set up here, not AOE or god-like party in some dungeon.)
Even the 3 days (say 30 hours?) to get 200% is kinda pushing it. With a recharger and empower, ok, but without? I don't think so.
*******
Anyway... to those freaking out about how many hours it's going to take you to hit 75, 76, 78, etc. - don't. Don't even think about it. I used to do that, used to take my xp per hour and add it all up... It was depressing and I got discouraged from even playing. Consequently, it took even longer for me to level. Finally, I wised up and stopped looking at it that way. I just started setting small goals for myself. Since I worked a lot and couldn't play much, my goal at levels 74 and 75 was to get 20% a week. Some weeks I got more, other weeks I couldn't play and got less. It all averaged out and I was able to hit 76 fairly quickly and painlessly. =]
Anyway... to those freaking out about how many hours it's going to take you to hit 75, 76, 78, etc. - don't. Don't even think about it. I used to do that, used to take my xp per hour and add it all up... It was depressing and I got discouraged from even playing. Consequently, it took even longer for me to level. Finally, I wised up and stopped looking at it that way. I just started setting small goals for myself. Since I worked a lot and couldn't play much, my goal at levels 74 and 75 was to get 20% a week. Some weeks I got more, other weeks I couldn't play and got less. It all averaged out and I was able to hit 76 fairly quickly and painlessly. =]
I know what you mean. I had stopped looking at it this way, too, but recently I caught myself doing it again. Disaster. I don't even have the time to play for 10-14 hours a day as some people do. Not to mention I have also to play my Dwarfy to make money... There have been only 3 days within the last fornight able to play as much as to get 10% a time. I really hate it when L2 starts feeling like being your 2nd job. This is the death of fun play.
Yes, I played for about 20 hours and did both levels. It was more like 180%, not a full 200%, though.
Level 72 was a 2 day gig. It was after a break and I didn't have near as much playtime as I do now and did before (sort of a transition period).
Level 73 took me 3 days with about 8 hours a day. I AFK'd for a few min after every buffround and did about 30% a day until the third day when I just finished the level off.
Level 74, I did really slow because I did alot of the Ketra Alliance Quest in that level, but I could get over 2% a buffround CDLing at hot springs which = 6% an hour. With a high Recharger one can do that level in one all-nighter session. I still finished it in a week.
I think it is just he playtimes and the ability to grind continuously and not get bogged down in boredom that rifts my XP speed so far away from other people who are/were my level or similar. Alot of people figure it will take forever so they are slow from the beginning. I grind like I'm level 20 and get 1% a kill regardless of what level toon I'm playing. In the end, the difference is astronomical.
60 * 2 = 120% - 20% to compensate for AFK and then 4 extra hours in a day to get XP :)
With my normal grinding sessions (like what I did before, and what I'm doing right now), 10-14 hours is kinda short. When I'm actually hunting wiht "level as fast as possible" in mind my sessions are usually 20-48 hours and they get done fast.
70-72 was extremely easy in the back of Valley of Saints on a Necro. I'm suprised so many SPS in average gear move to FoTD so early (like in 6x levels) since the mobs they will have to 3 shot will bring the average XP per shot down to VoS levels, anyways - and those mobs will save you cash (and the quest will make you much more adena).
Also remember that recharge is very efficient on Necros and SH using Death Spike. 50 MP at level 74 for that skill. 1 Recharger is enough for a Necro/SH until S Grade whereas an SPS will run a sole SE out of MP. My sub is SPS, and I have another Necro at level 66. The necro can go forever with the SE (level 66), but the SPS can run the SE out of MP in 15 minutes easily if you don't use MP Elixirs on both chars.
I powerlevel the sub with the other necro and it gets same XP/hour as by itself due to lack of downtime on the Necro. 40-62 in 6 days powerleveling... Now waiting for friend's Necro sub to catch up (been 1.5 weeks now :P ).
This is for grinding fast, not the slow-as-hell, walk around, micro-management type XP that decreases you XP/hr by 30%.
OK, so here's where the problem occurred: It's not that your xp per hour is wrong, it's that your descriptions are wrong. You're not talking about high playtime here, you're talking about astronomical playtime.
No one in their right mind plays 20 - 48 hours in one session. Those that do are the people we hear about on the news every now and then, dying of a heart attack at age 26 from playing video games too long.
I'm not trying to make any comments on what you do with your time/life, but you have to realize that the amount of time you are describing is not normal AT ALL. A 20 hour grind session does NOT equal one day. For you, maybe, but for 99.99% of the other MMO players in this world, absolutely not. When you say "a 1 day gig" everybody else is reading that as "6 - 12 hours" or somewhere thereabouts. Few, if any, would read that as "20 hours".
Don't say it's a "1 day gig" or a "2 day gig", say what you really mean - "it's 20 hours" or "it's 48 hours, tops". What you mean when you say "1 day" is totally different than what everyone else reads that as.
And don't say it's "easy" when you're referring to these 48 hour grind sessions. Because again, you are one of the few people in this world that would or even could sit down and grind for 48 hours in L2. Most people have jobs, school, family, etc. not to mention sleeping, eating, bathing and then after all that factors in we get to what you described - even being able to stand playing for that amount of time. So it's not an "easy" "2 day gig".
You toss around this "1 day gig" phrase as if you are so much better at leveling than everyone else, when in reality you're really leveling at about the same speed as most people, you're just putting it all together in one extremely long session as opposed to spreading it out like most people do.
Yes, leveling in one long session and experiencing the game in those other 6 days in the week > spending 7 days trying to get a level while you lose XP along the way from PvP/seiges/raids/etc.
It was an easy one day gig, on a weekend. Woke up early in the morning and a little after midnight I was done. Slept for 8-10 hours and life was as normal as it could be.
When there is alot to do, I stay up.
I have the time to do it so why not :)
It's no astronomical to me. When I played other MMOs me and every other end-gamer on the server would level for 72 hours straight to hit the level cap so we didn't have to worry about it later (raid zones had level limits, clans/guilds had to stop raiding while everyone leveled up and slow/low playtime members would be kicked respectively).
I honestly don't know anywhere in FOD you can grind and get the kind of % you are talking about. In the heart of FOD (most nukers know where thats at) with the big rock :) is where I grind most of the time if it's not taken. I grind Solo(not duo/buffer) with scrolls or CH buffs or party when I can. The xp I described earlier is what I get there and the mobs are white or green.
Fortunatly I have a job, a great family and school(im old but it's still important..). I play maybe 2-3 hours 4-5 days a weeks. With that kind of schedule it takes a long time to lvl at 70+. My alts I play more now because I can still see the progression in the 2-3 hours a day I can play. I still play my main but not as much as I use too. Now I just go out and hunt for quest items and forget about the xp. Alot less painfull that way.
I have decided that one account is enough and im not going to get another no matter what. When and if it gets to the point I can't play this game anymore with only one account then ill be done. Besides you are what I call a hard core player lvling non-stop like you do. Nothing wrong with it, it's your play style. I would never be a part of your guild or clan though, since I like to play the game not the grind and skipping everything for end game is not my style.
People would take off work so that they could grind and hit the level cap. The XP zones would be so full that you almost couldn't move. End-gamers would kill raid mobs for XP and auction the loot off in /shout.
Anyway... to those freaking out about how many hours it's going to take you to hit 75, 76, 78, etc. - don't. Don't even think about it. I used to do that, used to take my xp per hour and add it all up... It was depressing and I got discouraged from even playing. Consequently, it took even longer for me to level. Finally, I wised up and stopped looking at it that way. I just started setting small goals for myself. Since I worked a lot and couldn't play much, my goal at levels 74 and 75 was to get 20% a week. Some weeks I got more, other weeks I couldn't play and got less. It all averaged out and I was able to hit 76 fairly quickly and painlessly. =]
What you quoted only matters if you're really **** about it. Worrying about it doesn't change you XP/Hr, but the faster you get there, the longer you get to enjoy other things in the game before it dies out.
i wish sps can use lower mp for skill, it is rediculous to exps with a SE. :<. can someone help me how to keep up my mp? i dont want to make a EE. no way. my se is lv 55 and sps is 61 :x yeah i know now i am letting the se leech. i hunt in fotd and vos, i wish they drop alot of mp herb.
tats: +4int, +4wit, -10men because +2 wit and -2men from dc robe
Hmm. thyts why clarity pots was invented and ee is better then se, if u can get emp scrolls, ee has pow and clarity. otherwiswe your mp is gone too fast. Try for a lvl 3 passive clarity aug on your weap. that really helpful on a sps.
EE doesn't have pow till 78, so it's not really worth mentioning to a level 61.
DorkAvenger, are you using your mana regeneration skill? And what about mp pots? They're expensive but you could try to buy the recipe from someone who owns a clanhall and make your own.
What skills do you typically use when you're out xping? Are you trying to overhit every mob? Do you use surrender to water? Either of those will eat up your mp. Also, make sure you hunt mobs you can 2 shot. And don't have you SE full buff herself, just give her the bare minimum.
You may already be doing those things but they are just some of the ways you can conserve mp. If you're still really having trouble, you might also consider trading your DC set for NM while grinding.
yeah mana regen is very important skill. mp elixir is not enough, at lv 61 a hydro blast use 55 mp, A grade elixir can probably give another 10 nukers more. VOS near entrance is pretty good for me, and 2 nuke each mobs, but sometime it boring there. i tried fotd and mp run pretty fast.
i need to get my SE to same lv as sps so i get good regen. 6 lvl apart kinda suck. ty listof
For recharging 6 levels is the maximum that SE can be lower from you to get still full recharges. What is your SE wearing, do you set it to walk with you, or sit somewhere safe, but also in the EXP radius? Do you walk yourself?
sps walk, SE is just lv 55 and in karmian, i have bw robe set but too lazy to give it to her. se recharge and then sit, in the killing ground. i am actually doing fine at vos entrance area. but more sitting if i want to hunt at different area like fotd.
sh and sps have totally diffferent mp management. sps get skill and passive mastery != sh btm and deathspike low mp cost. it turn out btm and low mp skill is better than sps skill and passive mastery.
The hole thing on mp management when xping solo is to actually slow down. Sps can cast spell and kill so fast nothing except full support can keep them going. Once I get to about 50% mp I slow down my killing, with buffs and mp regen skill and herbs I can pretty much go non-stop. Yes sometimes I have to stop for a few minutes but I can usually last a full buff round. This is in FOD by the way since we have a clan hall in rune it's perfect for this kind of grinding. Granted it's not the optimum way to lvl but it works.
The hole thing on mp management when xping solo is to actually slow down. Sps can cast spell and kill so fast nothing except full support can keep them going. Once I get to about 50% mp I slow down my killing, with buffs and mp regen skill and herbs I can pretty much go non-stop. Yes sometimes I have to stop for a few minutes but I can usually last a full buff round. This is in FOD by the way since we have a clan hall in rune it's perfect for this kind of grinding. Granted it's not the optimum way to lvl but it works.
just curious ... do you get more xp for killing slower during long time, then killing fast and sit and regain the mana?
In places with herb drops, you will definitely want to maximize the chance of getting Superior MP/Recovery herbs when you are low on MP. So, fast killing till at most 20% MP left, then you may want to sit for a bit or to slow down your killing.
In places with herb drops, you will definitely want to maximize the chance of getting Superior MP/Recovery herbs when you are low on MP. So, fast killing till at most 20% MP left, then you may want to sit for a bit or to slow down your killing.
MP Regen for -all- classes needs a major revamp/boost. I would dare say that all classes should get at least +10 added on top of their MP Regeneration to alleviate this problem. It's not just SPS that has MP Problems, albeit the class design does allow them to feel it more stronly than most other classes, especially within their archetype.
SH and Necro have Death Spike, so they get around this somewhat. Sorc has slower casting speed, so over time their MP consumption will still not be on par with that of a Spellsinger.
Body to Mind is a nice skill but it is not efficient to use often while grinding. Using a skill like Vampiric Claw to drain back the damage dealt by Body to Mind kills at least 33% of the MP you get back from it. The time it takes to cast it - when added up over a grind session - makes a noticeable dent in grind sessions.
Mana Regeneration buff only adds like +4.xx MP/Tick Regen. that is not enough. Body to Mind 1 for Sorcerors is a joke.
Base MP Regeneration needs to be boosted for all classes by a noticeable amount to alleviate this issue.
While some nukers may have somewhat better MP Management than others, the issue is still apparent that we, as an archetype, are so dependent on "Recharge" that it is almost impossible to make any type of factorable process on a day by day basis without boxing at least 1 recharger in the lower levels. That is, with the game actually feeling fun (I've been on both sides of that fence, and I watch my roomate level his Necro without a Recharger on a daily basis since I transferred servers).
The jury is still out for me IRT M.Crit rate increases. That MAY have a factorably GOOD effect on the SPS class due to them having the highest base M.Crit rate of the Nuker Archetype, but I don't think its effect will be enough to even alleviate the problem that this class is designed in a way that makes MP Management almost work unless you zerg you self with recharges and get MIRACLE-like droprates on MP herbs.
In a dense leveling area, if you don't get at least a Greater Herb of Mana, it almost doesn't matter. In dense areas in Valley of Saints, my Spellsinger sub can run it (65) and my SE (66) out of mana in like 2 buffrounds or less.
That is with micro-managing my mana consumption and being very meticulous with herb distribution.
Some tips, that I'm sure have been given before:
1. SE needs a +MP Robe Set and a Mana Up or [my recommendation] Conversion weapon (Homu or Crystal Staff works).
2. Only pick up Herbs on the Spellsinger if the SE is at or near Full MP. If the SE is > 80% MP and the SPS is < ~60% MP I would pick it up with the SPS - but only if it is a Superior Herb of Mana or Herb of Recovery. When you are in applicable level range, Recharge is very efficient, and with the SE having a larger Mana Pool, it will always get more MP per herb than the Spellsinger. The only exceptions are Superior Mana Herbs and Recovery Herbs, and what I'd do with those is aforementioned.
3. SPS in /walk mode. Put a cheap C Grade Bracer on it and use +3 Speed Talisman. That way, you have as much speed as you can, with the added benefit of the Mana Regeneration from walking. Do not use Mana Regeneration Talisman on the Spellsinger - the Mana Regen is too small for how fast the nuker consumes MP, making the benefits less than neglifible.
4. SE on /walk with a cheap C Grade Bracer and an Mana Regeneration Talisman. Because in-range Recharge is so efficient, the Mana Consumption of the SE should not exceed that of the Spellsinger, especially if you do what I said and distribute the Mana Herbs between them in a sane manner. The longer you can avoid Invocation on the SE, the better you are. You can invocate you SE 2 times a buffround: 10 minutes in, and right before you rebuff. When your SE is in invocation, run around and kill mobs, maybe you'll get a good droprate on Mana Herbs and can lessen your MP consumption.
5. Use Mana Elixirs sparingly. There is a quest in Valley of Saints for Asofe. Get them, keep them, store them, hoard them. Craft as many A Grade Mana Elixirs as you can. Put 65% of them on the Spellsinger and 35% of them on the SE. Use them whenever you can on you Spellsinger as long as the amount of mana you have is 360 or more Mana less than full. The SE doesn't need as much as the SPS, because it has Invocation and you will be smartly distributing your Mana Herbs that drop.
Just because the SE is 75% MP and the SPS is 40% MP doesn't mean that the best thing to do is run for the herb on the SPS.
A level 66 SE recharges a 64/5 SPS for ~191 MP around 121 Cost. The more MP your SE has, the more MP you SPS has. You do the math.
In places with herb drops, you will definitely want to maximize the chance of getting Superior MP/Recovery herbs when you are low on MP. So, fast killing till at most 20% MP left, then you may want to sit for a bit or to slow down your killing.
MP Regen for -all- classes needs a major revamp/boost. I would dare say that all classes should get at least +10 added on top of their MP Regeneration to alleviate this problem. It's not just SPS that has MP Problems, albeit the class design does allow them to feel it more stronly than most other classes, especially within their archetype.
SH and Necro have Death Spike, so they get around this somewhat. Sorc has slower casting speed, so over time their MP consumption will still not be on par with that of a Spellsinger.
Body to Mind is a nice skill but it is not efficient to use often while grinding. Using a skill like Vampiric Claw to drain back the damage dealt by Body to Mind kills at least 33% of the MP you get back from it. The time it takes to cast it - when added up over a grind session - makes a noticeable dent in grind sessions.
Mana Regeneration buff only adds like +4.xx MP/Tick Regen. that is not enough. Body to Mind 1 for Sorcerors is a joke.
Base MP Regeneration needs to be boosted for all classes by a noticeable amount to alleviate this issue.
While some nukers may have somewhat better MP Management than others, the issue is still apparent that we, as an archetype, are so dependent on "Recharge" that it is almost impossible to make any type of factorable process on a day by day basis without boxing at least 1 recharger in the lower levels. That is, with the game actually feeling fun (I've been on both sides of that fence, and I watch my roomate level his Necro without a Recharger on a daily basis since I transferred servers).
The jury is still out for me IRT M.Crit rate increases. That MAY have a factorably GOOD effect on the SPS class due to them having the highest base M.Crit rate of the Nuker Archetype, but I don't think its effect will be enough to even alleviate the problem that this class is designed in a way that makes MP Management almost work unless you zerg you self with recharges and get MIRACLE-like droprates on MP herbs.
In a dense leveling area, if you don't get at least a Greater Herb of Mana, it almost doesn't matter. In dense areas in Valley of Saints, my Spellsinger sub can run it (65) and my SE (66) out of mana in like 2 buffrounds or less.
That is with micro-managing my mana consumption and being very meticulous with herb distribution.
Some tips, that I'm sure have been given before:
1. SE needs a +MP Robe Set and a Mana Up or [my recommendation] Conversion weapon (Homu or Crystal Staff works).
2. Only pick up Herbs on the Spellsinger if the SE is at or near Full MP. If the SE is > 80% MP and the SPS is < ~60% MP I would pick it up with the SPS - but only if it is a Superior Herb of Mana or Herb of Recovery. When you are in applicable level range, Recharge is very efficient, and with the SE having a larger Mana Pool, it will always get more MP per herb than the Spellsinger. The only exceptions are Superior Mana Herbs and Recovery Herbs, and what I'd do with those is aforementioned.
3. SPS in /walk mode. Put a cheap C Grade Bracer on it and use +3 Speed Talisman. That way, you have as much speed as you can, with the added benefit of the Mana Regeneration from walking. Do not use Mana Regeneration Talisman on the Spellsinger - the Mana Regen is too small for how fast the nuker consumes MP, making the benefits less than neglifible.
4. SE on /walk with a cheap C Grade Bracer and an Mana Regeneration Talisman. Because in-range Recharge is so efficient, the Mana Consumption of the SE should not exceed that of the Spellsinger, especially if you do what I said and distribute the Mana Herbs between them in a sane manner. The longer you can avoid Invocation on the SE, the better you are. You can invocate you SE 2 times a buffround: 10 minutes in, and right before you rebuff. When your SE is in invocation, run around and kill mobs, maybe you'll get a good droprate on Mana Herbs and can lessen your MP consumption.
5. Use Mana Elixirs sparingly. There is a quest in Valley of Saints for Asofe. Get them, keep them, store them, hoard them. Craft as many A Grade Mana Elixirs as you can. Put 65% of them on the Spellsinger and 35% of them on the SE. Use them whenever you can on you Spellsinger as long as the amount of mana you have is 360 or more Mana less than full. The SE doesn't need as much as the SPS, because it has Invocation and you will be smartly distributing your Mana Herbs that drop.
Just because the SE is 75% MP and the SPS is 40% MP doesn't mean that the best thing to do is run for the herb on the SPS.
A level 66 SE recharges a 64/5 SPS for ~191 MP around 121 Cost. The more MP your SE has, the more MP you SPS has. You do the math.
Nice tips, thats what me and my fiance have been doing on our alts with mana herbs. He's playing sps and me EE. I usually grab the mana herbs first unless im close to full then yell at him to grab them.
Forgot about talisman, I'll look into those.
At 59 with all the stuff, you are probably levelling near Devastated Castle on Doom Knights and smaller Doom mobs. I wonder if you try Spiteful Soul groups...
Spiteful soul groups and FoD are some of the best leveling spots for SpS. I don't understand why so many like VoS... I think it's horrible, I never leveled there.
When you get higher, the front of DO allows for 2.5 room pulls. I believe you remember which spot I'm talking about. It gets to the point where you can only cast so fast with respawns, and you will hit that point in DO, I promise.
Point taken. When I leveled off those, herbs didn't exist. However... VoS still sucks. If you need herbs when you hunt, you are probably taking a few deaths in VoS that you don't need to be taking.
have been xping on iop since i got my arcana to 150water (mid lvl76) south end (lots of bots but i usually find a spot between them) and now im soon mid 77
all mobs is 2-shot (except when nuke fails and it takes 3-4 to kill it)
with the new S-crystal price i loose adena on every mob, but the occational FS-drops pays the cost for the Sbsps
and during my whole time there i NEVER had to sit, just use occational invocations on my SE (lvl72) now and then (and i nuking mobs while he invo..)
and as far as i remeber i had never had to sit a single moment since they inplemented the mana-pots in this game
I doubt I'll ever do IOP on my sps, his main purpose is to lvl up my new EE for my dwarf (since my 78 EE has a WC lvl 67 on it).
If I wanna really make money I do IOP with my 76 arcana lord and prophet (oop SE). Thats my chill session. Boxing 5 chars for sps is a bit tiring at times :)
I totally agree with mooster, group mobs in dvc was awesome! I remember doing 67-68 in a day with just a se back in c2. I liked VoS only when I am buffed with more than just prophet/se. If you have a buff crew pow+dances (even just dances just for the cast speed to kill before they can bleed/hit you) vos is probably the fastest xp out there mainly cause of the respawn rate. Pretty much level to 70 in VoS and then fotd to get to mystic muse. That should be the fastest way then what I did which was blazing swamp to 77 and **** that was horrible xp but easy. Too bad the vitality system wasn't out yet back then.
I'd like to see if anybody did 77-79 faster than me though. I did 77(5%) to 79 in 12 days. That was single nuking imperial tomb mobs with siren+pow out of party, and without vitality.
I had PoW out of party most of the way 79->80 and siren out part of the way. If not siren, I always had dances - siren out of party... just takes a little bit of getting ready.
I didn't get it on mine either. With PoW and WM... I wonder how close to that 20% crit rate you will be. I crit a lot with it, sometimes 6-7 times in a row... but doesn't seem enough to be 20%, maybe 10-15. I'm just making a wild guess, but I'm thinking you get capped at 20% with WM + any combo of two of the following: valakas, WM passive augment, PoW, Siren.
Meh I still liked having siren (poor warpy :)) And most of the time the bd that was hopping in and out of party was low lv...Us LE's cant be leveling dark elves don't ya know :)
ya you do get capped at 20% with just wm+pow alone(gracia) but before with siren it was absolutely amazing i was critting every mob which had 4x to 6x hp and with the crit multiplier before being 4x it was soooo good. now those turds have made my spectral dancer absolutely useless! why would i bother levelling it that high just for siren when siren doesn't even make a difference anymore >.>
Not really. People without those buffs lose nothing. You still have the same crit rate as you would without them. People that spent the time leveling those classes gain nothing. Level a character to 78 to buff you, then have NCSOFT make the buff totally useless, then come back here and call me a snob.
I should of subbed the cardinal swordsinger then I will have uber buffs!! but just pony buffs is kinda annoying already cause of the shot lag, after the first nuke the second nuke refreshes really fast but the spiritshots hasn't refreshed so the cast speed ends up being slower! laaaame! extremely good for vortex and pow tho~
*High Five Smittie*
*High Five Gnatalye*
We're Snobs! Hooray!
and honestly you're playing a class that lacked matk and mp regeneration from day one you should of planned ahead~
NO EXCUSES!
I think pony buff only really works on SH, due to the lower cast speed. It seems to only be an annoyance on my sps. And my plan was to change the SE for an ES when I play.
Oh well.. I guess I'll just use this summoner to seed as well then :)
Level a character to 78 to buff you, then have NCSOFT make the buff totally useless, then come back here and call me a snob.
Ok, I gotta agree that that would suck, BUT I still think the nerf was waranted. It sucks more for those that box both buffers, than for those that have as main or even just box one.
AND
for those that don't box those buffers, it's nice to have a good base crit rate, before even with wm2 it sucked. Even if snob is not the good work, you are part of the "elite few" that have access to either if not both. Boxing is an option, it shouldn't be a required to have good damage.
While I won't call anyone a snob, I do think that it is very unfortunate that this thread was torn apart and derailed by elitist players who want nothing to do but brag about what they can box and what levels their buffboxes are.
People who start these threads don't care about what the rare players able to box several high level buffs can do with their zerg of buffers and recharges. They won't to know what is available for the average player who doesn't accont share or box multiple toons.
I haev 2 buffers currently (soon 3, my roomate is leveling an EE for me that he really likes playing, he will be so sad when I snatch it from him!) and I try as hard as I can to keep them out of this type of discussion.
Shame on you and your shameless bantering... You know who you are.
Yeah... except this topic was made 4 months ago. It has moved to many different points. Someone asked where to level a SpS, and we responded with good soloing areas. Smittie asked where, and he does have many many boxed buffers... thus, we can talk about box buffers. You should read everything and look at dates before criticizing the way we help someone.
Cause people with inactive accounts can post on these forums.
Anyways, why does it matter if I quit or not. I have played this class quite extensively and am qualified to give advice on where to go level one without insane amounts of buffbots considering I'm leveling one ATM in the form of a subclass...
If I want advice on where to xp with a ton of boxes on my sps, why should I not be allowed to ask in a thread called "XP for SPS"?
I didn't get it on mine either. With PoW and WM... I wonder how close to that 20% crit rate you will be. I crit a lot with it, sometimes 6-7 times in a row... but doesn't seem enough to be 20%, maybe 10-15. I'm just making a wild guess, but I'm thinking you get capped at 20% with WM + any combo of two of the following: valakas, WM passive augment, PoW, Siren.
Does CoM give +mcrit rate as well? Because I've heard from a lvl 79 DC that it doesn't.
You would have a BD in your party anyways, for Concentration and Mystic.
You can get Prophecy of Water from any EE, you don't need to have it in the party to get the buff :)
If Siren does indeed become useless, that is just bad. I would think that NCSoft had the forsight and intelligence to take that into account when balancing the M.Crit rate (since it's a buff and not a special item/augmentation effect or anything).
@ Gnatayle
I didn't say I wanted to stop you. I just think polluting the threads is not good for other players who may be looking for the information. It is not fun to wade through pages and pages of gibberish to find good information in threads. I had to deal with it when I was new - I know what it feel like... Good isn't the word for it, either.
You would have a BD in your party anyways, for Concentration and Mystic.
You can get Prophecy of Water from any EE, you don't need to have it in the party to get the buff :)
If Siren does indeed become useless, that is just bad. I would think that NCSoft had the forsight and intelligence to take that into account when balancing the M.Crit rate (since it's a buff and not a special item/augmentation effect or anything).
@ Gnatayle
I didn't say I wanted to stop you. I just think polluting the threads is not good for other players who may be looking for the information. It is not fun to wade through pages and pages of gibberish to find good information in threads. I had to deal with it when I was new - I know what it feel like... Good isn't the word for it, either.
Your info on leveling time for a necro vs sps was very useless and clueless imo. You claim you played a sps as well as a necro, then you of all people should know that a necro (as well as a SH) can level at a faster pace, on higher mobs, and with less support than a sps of the same level and gear . "Polluting" a thread on SPS xp with your necro leveling garbage is less than constructive, so go look in the mirror before you talk [censored] to others about doing the same. :)
You would have a BD in your party anyways, for Concentration and Mystic.
You can get Prophecy of Water from any EE, you don't need to have it in the party to get the buff :)
If Siren does indeed become useless, that is just bad. I would think that NCSoft had the forsight and intelligence to take that into account when balancing the M.Crit rate (since it's a buff and not a special item/augmentation effect or anything).
@ Gnatayle
I didn't say I wanted to stop you. I just think polluting the threads is not good for other players who may be looking for the information. It is not fun to wade through pages and pages of gibberish to find good information in threads. I had to deal with it when I was new - I know what it feel like... Good isn't the word for it, either.
Your info on leveling time for a necro vs sps was very useless and clueless imo. You claim you played a sps as well as a necro, then you of all people should know that a necro (as well as a SH) can level at a faster pace, on higher mobs, and with less support than a sps of the same level and gear . "Polluting" a thread on SPS xp with your necro leveling garbage is less than constructive, so go look in the mirror before you talk [censored] to others about doing the same. :)
You're quite wrong, cause I'm not leveling an SPS sub and I can tell you for a fact that it levels just as fast as My or my roomate's necro leveled with the same level of support (which is not a zerg).
So I will kindly disagree.
All nukers can level in the same areas from 1-74. Doesn't really have anything to do with the levels of the mobs.
But if Spellsingers insist on leveling in crappy areas like Wall of Argos Antelopes/Bandersnatches and Blazing Swamps (I see so many in those places!), then go ahead and do it. Just don't complain about how good other nuker classes have it, when you're short changing yourself.
Where to level on this class doesn't become a class discussion until post 77, IMO. You do it in the same places as a Sorc/Spellhowler and Necromancer (until 74) do it... To think otherwise is just wanting to be different or add complexity where it just doesn't fit in.
You end up doing quite different spots when u have 3 elders with u, not to mention pow and dances though. Hence why I asked here.
I've lvled up a SH before to 76 with only a SE and a prophet. Now I box quite a bit more, hence I need tougher mobs or higher mob density. Since I know others also box "a zerg", I asked in the thread called "XP for sps".
I have a 64 Necromancer also, any spot u can tell me is good? Using your choice of buffers oop? Pls define what oop use im allowed too :)
Be careful though, the mobs were made much stronger with the soulshot use (I'm told) and alot of the nuker mobs there buff themselves with Empower and Wild Magic so their M.Crit rate will be quite high.
And yea the cost of Necro can be extreme. NCSoft made everything with this class cost alot. If you aren't paying for it with adena, you're paying for it with XP if you lag or have any slip of the finger (CDL).
You're quite wrong, cause I'm not leveling an SPS sub and I can tell you for a fact that it levels just as fast as My or my roomate's necro leveled with the same level of support (which is not a zerg).
So I will kindly disagree.
All nukers can level in the same areas from 1-74. Doesn't really have anything to do with the levels of the mobs.
But if Spellsingers insist on leveling in crappy areas like Wall of Argos Antelopes/Bandersnatches and Blazing Swamps (I see so many in those places!) Where to level on this class doesn't become a class discussion until post 77, IMO.
Unfortunitly theres a huge difference in effective leveling between sps and sh/necro pre-75. I'll agree with you that all those places you mentioned are horrible leveling spots for ...well any mage to be frankly honest. Within fod itself tho, theres alot of areas you can take a necro/sh to 2 shots mobs, where an sps will have to hold out 3-4 levels higher to be doing the same(even with demon or NM, you'll have to wait a bit to put out the same dmg those 2 classes can do). It has nothing to do with the level of the mobs, thats true, it has to do with magic attack and knowing your mage classes, and you simply don't know that.
Nah, an SPS can 2 shot mobs in Forest of the Dead at level 74. I know because I did an SPS from 76-77 there in A Grade Gear (SoM as a weapon) and it was 2 shotting everything. Unless you think the 20 M.Atk difference was major (but back then the seed skill wasn't a buff, so more than cancels out).
Almost everything is 2 shot for an SPS there, and alot of the undead mobs were 1 shot (Vortex or Solar Flare).
Soultaker in same gear is having alot of trouble there, comparatively speaking.
SH it not comparable to Necro. They can avoid mob resists by using Hurricane. And most will do just that with the seed buff since it makes the dmg difference between the two nukes a factor.
It is just stupid to go level in Forest of the Dead on a Necro. I don't know what it has to do with knowing you mage class. There are too many better places and the only reason I'd go to FoTD is to go hide in the cursed village killing mobs because wartags were everywhere else.
EDIT: SPS can start 2 shotting the entrance field in Forest of the Dead at level 66. The undead mobs (Fettered Soul and Corrupted Man models) can be taken down with Hydro-SolarFlare 2 shot and the rest are 2 shot with Hydro when you have Seed of Water buff up.
Is there enough mobs in FoTD for SPS with 3 elders (aka zerg) tho?
Or would some other spot be more preferable?
Mob density in Forest of the Dead is MUCH better than Valley of Saints, and most times you don't have to move too much (which hurts when you have PoWater cause it slows you) to get to the mobs. But with you Casting Speed/Critical Rate I think it will be hard finding a grinding spot that "challenges" you :) I think your experience would be very different from mine :P It will level you SPS faster than Valley of Saints would, though.
That would probably be the optimum place for that level, though. At least in terms of 1x HP outdoor mobs.
Right now I've been farming maj robe pieces from Antharas lair, I can do the first pytan room, the side room to that one and the pytran room behind the first one. I still have to wait for mobs, and I'm not really using the SE for mp, which is why I really want to get the ES to 58 and just exchange the SE with it. Have it do MP regen buff and when it gets high enough it can do the cool down buff for my StS.
I'd prolly try doing cata rooms if:
1.Someone else plays bd for me :)
2. 2 rooms next to eachother dont really have bots in it.
3. I didn't hate clicking on mobs in catas with those tight walls.
As I said before, you may give a try to ToI 5. Keep your SE ready for Purify.
There is only one spot in FotD with good enough respawn for you (the "tablet" spot near Lidia), but it's usually taken.
There is a low level area in the front that has a really good respawn. It's through the first field (across from quest mob at zone-in) to the right by the rock. I really liked that spot.
I also used to see Spellsingers running trains through Forest of the dead to another rock near that spot (by the road) and AOEing them down. It was a highly contested spot on Bartz (along with Tablet camp).
Tablet camp will be too high for him at that level. Too many failures, and his nuke damage won't be so great on those (especially the vamps at night that can probably 1 shot a low level toon with nuke).
Also, it seems alot of the MOBs in VoS now get Bonus XP if they use soulshots. I was seeing XP numbers there above 11k (no overhit) and that was the first time I've seen a mob in that zone/area give more than 9.6k XP or so. They certainly never hit 10k before gracia (unless overhit). I'll check on that in a couple days. Gonna let my Vitality recharge before I start leveling SPS sub again.
Obviously i didn't have all these buffers all the time and i know what its like with them and without them.
Two shotting should always refer to the basic nuke, (Prommy, DS, Hurry, Hydro, CDL) since CDL @ 10% hp already makes the attack a lot stronger than the basic death spike or hurricane it would definitely mean you can kill a lot higher level mobs and therefore get more xp.
Any class with cdl will always xp faster, no matter how you debate it my necro/soultaker would just easily clear blazing swamp with cdl and get more xp because of mp consumption and on top of that you would get reagents, stolen infernium ore, and red gems which is adena+++
In that sense its only se+sh/necro(lvl66-77)+acumen pot and those bat group mobs shouldn't be a problem if you know how to play your class.
And in a very well buffed party a necro will still dominate why? because now they can do toi 10th or woa angels. The kill rate you get on those mobs is absolutely amazing mainly cause of the dark weakness+gloom.
Spellsingers do not xp better than necros. Spellsingers require more mp, and they require more buffs just to xp at a faster upkept pace. Before rune was even released my SPS @ 75 was having a horrid time in blazing swamp because I could never two shot and when rune was released i had a horrid time in fotd because of the non stop drains and I couldn't two shot everything with just an se but i do admit the xp was definitely better. Ever since they added that stupid "cannot see target" [censored] its even more annoying! At 74+ its not that annoying if you have the two good spots in the end but if you have that cursed village area, have fun xping there, that place sucks [censored]. Flat areas = All win.
The moral of the story? SPS is easy to xp in lower levels but unless they have more buffs & mp later on they will experience a harder time levelling. Unless you got some crazy overenchanted weapons, element arcana mace, or "ZERG OF BUFFERS" get used to killing green mobs because thats probably the most efficient xp for a sps. Debate it all you want Trensharo, but then you'd be a hypocrite and pollute these forums with your bantering.
There is a low level area in the front that has a really good respawn. It's through the first field (across from quest mob at zone-in) to the right by the rock. I really liked that spot.
I also used to see Spellsingers running trains through Forest of the dead to another rock near that spot (by the road) and AOEing them down. It was a highly contested spot on Bartz (along with Tablet camp).
When you have an SpS with PoW and unlimited recharges, running 1x HP mob trains does much slower than killing them all on sight.
Don't knock it til you try it. Got alot of business taken care of and just wanted until I found out where mobs "don't" UD, because you waste alot of MP on UD mobs (cause the graphic lags and doesn't come up instantly and cast speed is fast). May not be a factor for people with PoW and unlimited recharges, but it is an issue for the rest of us. After all, that is why it was put in game, correct?
Obviously i didn't have all these buffers all the time and i know what its like with them and without them.
Two shotting should always refer to the basic nuke, (Prommy, DS, Hurry, Hydro, CDL) since CDL @ 10% hp already makes the attack a lot stronger than the basic death spike or hurricane it would definitely mean you can kill a lot higher level mobs and therefore get more xp.
Any class with cdl will always xp faster, no matter how you debate it my necro/soultaker would just easily clear blazing swamp with cdl and get more xp because of mp consumption and on top of that you would get reagents, stolen infernium ore, and red gems which is adena+++
In that sense its only se+sh/necro(lvl66-77)+acumen pot and those bat group mobs shouldn't be a problem if you know how to play your class.
And in a very well buffed party a necro will still dominate why? because now they can do toi 10th or woa angels. The kill rate you get on those mobs is absolutely amazing mainly cause of the dark weakness+gloom.
Spellsingers do not xp better than necros. Spellsingers require more mp, and they require more buffs just to xp at a faster upkept pace. Before rune was even released my SPS @ 75 was having a horrid time in blazing swamp because I could never two shot and when rune was released i had a horrid time in fotd because of the non stop drains and I couldn't two shot everything with just an se but i do admit the xp was definitely better. Ever since they added that stupid "cannot see target" [censored] its even more annoying! At 74+ its not that annoying if you have the two good spots in the end but if you have that cursed village area, have fun xping there, that place sucks [censored]. Flat areas = All win.
The moral of the story? SPS is easy to xp in lower levels but unless they have more buffs & mp later on they will experience a harder time levelling. Unless you got some crazy overenchanted weapons, element arcana mace, or "ZERG OF BUFFERS" get used to killing green mobs because thats probably the most efficient xp for a sps. Debate it all you want Trensharo, but then you'd be a hypocrite and pollute these forums with your bantering.
I can CDL vamps in FoTD but it wills still take 3 CDLs to kill them, because they have very strong Dark Resist. An SPS can 1-2 shot them with Vortex/Solar Flare, or Hydroblast.
Also, I did a Mystic Muse from 76-77 in 8 days at FoTD Tablet camp without a recharger (62 SE Buffs and some MP Elixirs + Herb Drops), so no... They are not harder to level than a Necromancer. I know from experience. The leveling spots are different, and the tactics can be different. But harder? No. Does MP consumption even matter for an SPS with Prophecy of water and 2 S Grade rechargers, anyways?
Blazing Swamp XP sucks for any class, that is why the area is filled primarily with botters on most servers. People go there to get stuff for Sub Class and other quests but they try to avoid it if they can. It's just like Shrine of Loyalty. Go get your quest done and move on to a better place.
Adena+++ is always good, but there are much better places to farm for drops and adena at those levels.
BS at pretty much any level sucks compared to VoS/FoTD. It is a quest item zone for nukers just like Shrine that I would avoid in almost any other circumstance - unless everywhere else was camped out [by bots or other players, not many bots in FoTD though at least on my server].
You can get up to 77 in FoTD and then move to Isle of Prayer and if you want 1x HP field mobs. There are places better than the aforementioned if you are looking for other types of grinding. I don't think Blazing Swamp can make you more Adena than Isle of Prayer, IME.
There is a low level area in the front that has a really good respawn. It's through the first field (across from quest mob at zone-in) to the right by the rock. I really liked that spot.
I also used to see Spellsingers running trains through Forest of the dead to another rock near that spot (by the road) and AOEing them down. It was a highly contested spot on Bartz (along with Tablet camp).
When you have an SpS with PoW and unlimited recharges, running 1x HP mob trains does much slower than killing them all on sight.
And any hills with range 900 nukes are ftl.
I don't think I got a line of sight check in that spot I spoke about, unless a mob was on the other side of a rock. The spot is much better than any spot in Valley of Saints, though, so it doesn't even matter whether or not there are hills there. You will still level noticeably faster in that spot in FoTD than in Valley of Saints.
Saying hills are FTL is like saying that running around in VoS to get mobs on the other side of the field are FTL.
The spot is so much better that the hills are not a factor.
Smittie should be doing x health mobs all the time with his setup. No idea if it is bad with bots now or not, but DO is really easy for a mage once you get that high in levels.
It's simple, spiteful souls until you are in range or FoTD. If FoTD is crowded when you get close to and in your 70s (it often is) do bat groups. No, they don't suck... but hey, what do I know about leveling? Once you get out of FoTD, you can do Dark Omens. A good spot for you... port in, go to the right, go through that room, and keep going until you get to the next big room. You will have a big room, connected to a small room, with another small room and big room just around the corner. And on the other side, is another big room... but it is a little bit of a walk there, might not be worth doing that one. 4 rooms should keep you busy though.
You can also try saints early on.. but that place kind of sucks with stun. Don't forget how good a SpS is in a catacomb pre 76. All mobs in the room (if you pick the right one) will be weak to magic, or have normal MDef. 1/4-3/4 of the mobs will be weak to holy (hello holy weapon and solar flare).
I've heard both. In dev castle I did the spot where u run up from port spot to Fields of massacre, 2 or 3 group mobs up there and only aggro is archers, was easier for me at the time, coz some of my boxes would lag out and stand around. Faster but less safer would be the doom knight area with the group mobs, further away from the port spot.
In Antharas lair (Dragon valley cave), I would kill the mobs for the A-grade rec/part quest and the bloody ladies, and 2 pytan groups. My elders could sustain my mp doing the 2.5 rooms past the initial donut (first pytan group, the one behind that one and the "mini-donut" off the side from the first pytan room). I only did that to farm the quest item for part 2 and to get som maj robe parts.
Today I tried TOI 5, 4, 3 and 2.
5: Too many pillars and the mobs all run pretty fast, didnt like it.
4: Nicely spaced mobs and not much social aggro if you choose targets wisely. Hated the Erin Ediunces tho.
3. Easy spot, just stand in the middle and do solar flare for first attack. No trouble at all to sustain mp and keep the middle room clear. Chose not to pull actively from the side rooms, althgough some mobs came from social aggro (Hellate type mobs).
2: Way too easy and I would have to move from room to room. Also way too low xp.
Did i not say "Unless you got some crazy overenchanted weapons, element arcana mace, or "ZERG OF BUFFERS" get used to killing green mobs because thats probably the most efficient xp for a sps."
Wow you clearly are a [censored]. What color are the mobs to you at 76/77 in fotd? Green.
For a person that complains about mob UD guess what? Blazing swamp already had mob UD and never did I once complain back then when I only had a SE to duo with. You're just a complainer. In china they bring complainers out to the back and shoot them, kneecaps first~
In china they bring complainers out to the back and shoot them, kneecaps first~
Wow that was a politicaly incorrect statement if I ever saw one.
You lose my respect and probably the respect of anyone reading that, so please refrain from those stupid comments.
In china they bring complainers out to the back and shoot them, kneecaps first~
Wow that was a politicaly incorrect statement if I ever saw one.
You lose my respect and probably the respect of anyone reading that, so please refrain from those stupid comments.
It's about as politically correct as saying that China is a trashy, polluted little nation who would do anything to win, even cheat. Most of its people are like that too. I always assume Chinese players are farmers, and I haven't really met a legit one yet.
lol you are making such a huge [censored] out of yourself right now i am going to keep egging you on because its so amusing
You speak of chinese people like they are dirt and they can't do anything without assistance. I'm chinese and i'm very legit, nice to meet you~ Keep assuming and please keep bantering it is quite amusing seeing a clown perform.
lol you are making such a huge [censored] out of yourself right now i am going to keep egging you on because its so amusing
You speak of chinese people like they are dirt and they can't do anything without assistance. I'm chinese and i'm very legit, nice to meet you~ Keep assuming and please keep bantering it is quite amusing seeing a clown perform.
I'm pretty sure you've heard everything that can be said, and there is nothing more for me to say to you. My response was in the same light as your rude banter up higher in the thread.
China has a high population, so I'm not saying all of them. But the portion of them that do fit that description are probably higher than the population in any other country. 1 LEGIT CHINESE!!! What a friggin MILESTONE...
i wasn't rude, i was showing all the possbilities of "XP for sps" and you told people you didn't want useless banter yet you kept going on and on even though you don't know anything at all except for the basics for a sps, even a noob just playing l2 for the first time would find that out.
i joke about my culture all the time, mainly cause the facts are so bizarre yet so hilarious. you are just bent on the fact that all chinese people are cheaters. its also evident that you are also slightly jealous that you can't achieve what they can cheating or not. maybe you didn't understand my humor but it triggered you. i definitely agree with you though, its not hard to see at all =) you bashing a group of people is definitely off topic and a sign of desperation.
i'm gonna stop replying cause you hate me and my people oh noes.
i wasn't rude, i was showing all the possbilities of "XP for sps" and you told people you didn't want useless banter yet you kept going on and on even though you don't know anything at all except for the basics for a sps, even a noob just playing l2 for the first time would find that out.
i joke about my culture all the time, mainly cause the facts are so bizarre yet so hilarious. you are just bent on the fact that all chinese people are cheaters. its also evident that you are also slightly jealous that you can't achieve what they can cheating or not. maybe you didn't understand my humor but it triggered you. i definitely agree with you though, its not hard to see at all =) you bashing a group of people is definitely off topic and a sign of desperation.
i'm gonna stop replying cause you hate me and my people oh noes.
It's about as politically correct as saying that China is a trashy, polluted little nation who would do anything to win, even cheat. Most of its people are like that too. I always assume Chinese players are farmers, and I haven't really met a legit one yet.
Farmers cheat not "to win", but to make money by selling stuff to cheating players, of any nation. Yours, for example :p