When the Hellbound update went live last week, it inadvertently enabled the use of Unicode text characters on all servers. This was unintentional and should not have gone live. There are some kinks and support issues we must work out before we can permanently enable Unicode characters on our service. Today, May 1st 2008, we will be removing all Unicode text characters until further notice. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause some of our players. If we are able to support Unicode text in the future, we will make it available again.
Though, is there any lead/heads managing something seriously or we are like labs rats, you try and see whats going on?
This new traitment to improve my reading of combat logs makes my eyes bleeding.
can I just say thank you ???? It was getting beyond annoying running around with allblock on just to spare myself of the russians that just assumed the whole world understood russian?
small suggestion, make the update required ie unless you download it you cant login. What I think is happening is those that didnt download the update can still use unicode text which in turn crit errors those that did download the update
:)
NC finally added unicode support after 4 years, now they remove it again, and you people APPLAUD them for removing it?
Wow, I'm speechless really.
true story follows
me: ! WTS Forgotten Blade
random person 1: <pink cyrillic text>
random person 2: <pink cyrillic text>
me to random person 1: "English plz
random person 1: <more pink cyrillic text>
random person 1: <yet more pink cyrillic text>
me: /block random person 1
me: ! WTS Forgotten Blade
random person 1: <pink cyrillic text>
random person 2: <pink cyrillic text>
me to random person 1: "English plz
random person 1: <more pink cyrillic text>
random person 1: <yet more pink cyrillic text>
me: /block random person 1
so yeah I m applauding
I see your point, but it's not like it was any better when transliterated latin characters were used instead. If you don't know the language, you won't understand it either way.
NC finally added unicode support after 4 years, now they remove it again, and you people APPLAUD them for removing it?
Wow, I'm speechless really.
true story follows
me: ! WTS Forgotten Blade
random person 1: <pink cyrillic text>
random person 2: <pink cyrillic text>
me to random person 1: "English plz
random person 1: <more pink cyrillic text>
random person 1: <yet more pink cyrillic text>
me: /block random person 1
so yeah I m applauding
peoples like that are ignorant, but you show same ignorance too...
problem here not with unicode, but with peoples. do you think that without cyrillic support he gonna start talk in english?
its gonna be like:
me: ! WTS Forgotten Blade
random person 1: pochem?
random person 2: za skoka?
me to random person 1: "English plz
random person 1: ti che blya ne russkiy?
random person 1: slish baran, pochem fb?
me: /block random person 1
better now?
unicode support wasnt a problem, it was useful and great thing for mono language clans, who can talk their native language in clan/party chats. peoples was always talking in their language, but they was forced to use english letters all the time.
please please give it back, or at least make it possible to write in clan/ally/party chat only. it's such a disaster, i can't handle any more of this nonunicode russian, please add unicode again. >_<
"There are some kinks and support issues we must work out before we can permanently enable Unicode characters on our service"
What you didn't think of now was:
What happens when some rus /gm's something IN RUS... lawl.
That's probably why. The petitions were probably being flooded by *****j.
"There are some kinks and support issues we must work out before we can permanently enable Unicode characters on our service"
What you didn't think of now was:
What happens when some rus /gm's something IN RUS... lawl.
That's probably why. The petitions were probably being flooded by *****j.
Russian community is one of the biggest and most productive communities of this game. And now i really surprised seeing some discrimination of russian speekeng people here on forum or in game. Does it really matters how characters was inputed and displayed if you dont understand? Why in other MMO games like EVE game community is more friendly to ppl who dont know other language other than native? Should i be ashamed that im russian when i play on servers like Teon or Franz where more than 60% of players are russians?
The true story is that for NCsoft is too hard to control private messages written on unfiltrateable languages so now it turned off. Keep discriminating us.
That's bad news ... waiting so long to write in our language and now we have removed? I hope you think about this and re-activate again as it has been a big step back when many people are anxiously expecting this change.
It is not always a good thing that those who write and understand English leave benefit. There are many languages in the world and we express ourselves and labour costs also understand the English ... you should also make that effort to understand each other.
PS: When the game translated into other languages? (Spa-Fra-Ita-Rus. ... etc. ..)
PD2: I want to write the letter "Ñ" accents and again ... T_T
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Español (Castellano):
Eso es una mala noticia...tanto tiempo esperando para poder escribir en nuestros idiomas y ahora lo han quitado? espero que reflexionen sobre esto y lo vuelvan a activar de nuevo ya que ha sido un gran paso atras cuando mucha gente esperaba ansiosamente este cambio.
No es bueno que siempre los que escriben y entienden ingles salgan beneficiados. Existen muchos idiomas en el mundo y a nosotros nos cuesta tambien trabajo expresarnos y entener el ingles...ustedes deberian de hacer tambien ese esfuerzo por entendernos.
PD: Cuando traduciran el juego a otros idiomas? (Spa-Fra-Ita-Rus...etc...)
PD2: Quiero poder escribir la letra "Ñ" y los acentos otra vez... T_T
The day before yesterday I was in Gludio on Luna and I over heard this:
x: something in cyrilic
y: english please?
x: learn cyrillic
x: this is russian private server.
Not everyone who plays on Euro servers is russian. Not everyone speaks or reads cyrillic. We are not discriminating, we are just asking that people be polite and use a common language that is understood by everyone.
Also including unicode can invite many tousands of new subscribers from pirate servers to normal official game. Bunch of people dont do that not because money, but just because they cant speak on native language. And now good marketing possibility is ruined again. Good job.
The day before yesterday I was in Gludio on Luna and I over heard this:
x: something in cyrilic
y: english please?
x: learn cyrillic
x: this is russian private server.
Not everyone who plays on Euro servers is russian. Not everyone speaks or reads cyrillic. We are not discriminating, we are just asking that people be polite and use a common language that is understood by everyone.
Maybe because someone writes text not for your eyes but for russians only. Personally i dont understand ingame greek or spanish language, so i dont understand trash in shout and im happy with that!) People write to specific auditory and you must respect they will.
Wow... I thought what a great new feature and now you remove it again... baaaaad - I loved the availibility of ä ü ö, since I am German... surely the use of russian, turkey etc. was a bad side effect... but well sad thats its now completly gone again.
AoC is starting to look tempting to me due to the complete incompetence that NCsoft is showing lately. Adding unicode was smart, but then they tell us it was a BUG? WTF? I don't really care if I can use the few scandic alphabets ingame or not, but the crap support is driving me nuts. Bugs like this and the BoA/Battleroar thing should NOT make it onto live servers if the company had any clue about wtf they are doing.
Even I have to say that this hurts more people than it helped, but I think the isssue is that it was implemented in a bad way - people by-passing the chat filers because it only works for english words; I assume petitions being submitted in other than English and the GM's could not understand and could not figure out which auto-response to send - "ummm F4 or F5, oh hell I will just close my eyes and pick one..."
But I do hope it comes back soon even with all the issues.
Maybe they should re-enable the Unicode on just Franz, Teon
and Luna as a courtesy to the players who use those servers?
It was once said "the customer is always right" :)
Fix the bugs as they are reported.
Also once was said "Lineage II community, we hear you!" but now i think that russian/greek/bulgarian/turkish and other non-english people not the "right" part of community that is worth to be heard.
Or it was we that cryed on this board before "Stop the unicode shouts in game!"?
They should allow unicode unless they can monitor chat in 100 different languages ... I say [censored] in hero chat I get banned, random non english speaker can just spew racial slurs in their native language and ncsoft can do nothing about it ;)
"It was once said "the customer is always right"... probably only by customers!
Regardless, I can't read Russian in ANY text, so I'm not sure how cyrillics, in or out, should make any kind of difference to me. People should be permitted to speak to eachother in their own language w/o OTHER people being a-holes about it.
This game is in English. Everyone knew it when they bought it. From the NPC text, to the item descriptions, to everything.
We've been over this in the other thread, and you had to be pretty **** slow to realize it just woudnt work.
The GM's here are English (Ok ok, or India who know limited English LOL!), its only obvious that they woudnt be able to policy 20 different languages effectively. Heres a hint: No game company can.
NCSoft giveth, NCSoft taketh away. Hollow be thy name. (...lol)
What language the game is in is pretty irrelevant to this discussion. Hell my MSN is in english, does that mean I should only be able to type english in it?
We can already type other languages, we just can't use special characters.
Heres a hint: No game company can.
1. Folk kan stadig skrive paa andre sprog, din kvajpande.
2. No game company? Try just about every game company out there from EA to Blizzard, from UO to WoW.
The day before yesterday I was in Gludio on Luna and I over heard this:
x: something in cyrilic
y: english please?
x: learn cyrillic
x: this is russian private server.
Not everyone who plays on Euro servers is russian. Not everyone speaks or reads cyrillic. We are not discriminating, we are just asking that people be polite and use a common language that is understood by everyone.
Hurt by a joke?
Its common language for you, its still not the only one world language that everyone knows or have to know. Maybe Ill shock ya, but not everyone speaks or reads english. And they doing fine. And none of NCSoft agreements says that everyone should.
English is very popular language, but you still have to respect other languages.
And again, without unicode support peoples still talk in their native language if they want, just use english letters. And you still wont understand them. NCsoft just blocked FONT, but didnt block language. I cant understand how blocked font help you guys. But thats pretty much bs.
The GM's here are English (Ok ok, or India who know limited English LOL!), its only obvious that they woudnt be able to policy 20 different languages effectively. Heres a hint: No game company can.
So can they do this now? Or you think with canceling unicode all momentally stop to speak native language? They do not even filter adena selling sites ingame (just ONE simple operation to add site in filter). Not even speaking about offensive words in different languages - all already learned them, no reason to filter anymore lol.
Interesting turn around to say unicode is not supported when it seems to work. One reason I can think of on why it was yanked is maybe it created a security risk and someone was doing some backdoor stuff. Of course the Russians wouldn't be hacking servers now, would they?
This game is in English. Everyone knew it when they bought it. From the NPC text, to the item descriptions, to everything.
We've been over this in the other thread, and you had to be pretty **** slow to realize it just woudnt work.
The GM's here are English (Ok ok, or India who know limited English LOL!), its only obvious that they woudnt be able to policy 20 different languages effectively. Heres a hint: No game company can.
NCSoft giveth, NCSoft taketh away. Hollow be thy name. (...lol)
Unicode don't change that :
la je peux t'insulter de toutes les manieres possibles, tu conprendra pas plus que si je te parlais en russe avec les caracteres ASCII. En fait la j'utilise uniquement les caracteres dispo sous lineage2. Un greque ou un russe peut faire exactement la meme chose que moi, sans difficulte aucune, sinon celle de lui donner mal a la tete a ecrire avec une faute par mot.
I juste use standard lineage2 characters to write in french language, greek and russian can too. And gm can no more control what I just said as they can control when russian speak russian with english letters. But, it's... ugly... It's like for a english people to write without using some character and doing intentionaly errors to each word... And I assume it is the same for german or spanish, who use some "special" key too (in fact, special just for english people, because for us, à, ç, é, è, ê, û, ï etc... are just normal characters). And I just can't imagine how it is for russian or greek poeple, who use totaly differents alphabet, to support writing like that all time...
I actually quite enjoyed trying to read the Russian shouts. What peed me off and probably lots of others, especially on Luna, were the Russian &#1072;&#1076;&#1077;&#1085;a sellers' spam. (oops, that was adena in Russian)
There is a possible solution to all this.
Allow the unicode and allow users to block unicode shouts with a game setting in the chat window. A simple tick box to allow Unicode in any, each, all or none of the chat tabs.
Yes, some important shouts will be missed, some might look weird with some letters missing but it will remove the problem for those not wishing to see it.
Interesting turn around to say unicode is not supported when it seems to work. One reason I can think of on why it was yanked is maybe it created a security risk and someone was doing some backdoor stuff. Of course the Russians wouldn't be hacking servers now, would they?
Characters blocked at client side and we have np with using old files.
They should think about it before wide publishing of files with unblocked characters.
However, backdoor stuff? Lol?
Oh. Sure. Get ready NCSoft, Russians crafting ingame atomic bomb using native characters! &#1093;&#1091;&#1081; is coming! :p
Funny part is that automatons seem to not be affected...
Maybe they didn't pass through the updating tab coz I sure as hell saw a few ads being spammed in Russian...
As for the ones saying we should use only English and not unicode coz that way they can understand what's being writen :
8a mporousa na sas e3hghsw se teleia agglika poso stenomualoi/mikromualoi eiste,alla kai pali 8a htan san na milaw se toubla....ap'ta kanonika...oxi san esas...
gonna be added in gracia
just custom filters for any words you want
Russian language have more than 180 hundred thousands words. Have fun and good time blocking them all :D
you can add custom words you want to filter and all messages with that words will be filtered.
if you dont want to see ANY russian messages, just add filters for most common letters like a, o, y, e and work done. if message have letter A in it its gonna be filtered. kinda easy.
The day before yesterday I was in Gludio on Luna and I over heard this:
x: something in cyrilic
y: english please?
x: learn cyrillic
x: this is russian private server.
Not everyone who plays on Euro servers is russian. Not everyone speaks or reads cyrillic. We are not discriminating, we are just asking that people be polite and use a common language that is understood by everyone.
Hurt by a joke?
Its common language for you, its still not the only one world language that everyone knows or have to know. Maybe Ill shock ya, but not everyone speaks or reads english. And they doing fine. And none of NCSoft agreements says that everyone should.
English is very popular language, but you still have to respect other languages.
And again, without unicode support peoples still talk in their native language if they want, just use english letters. And you still wont understand them. NCsoft just blocked FONT, but didnt block language. I cant understand how blocked font help you guys. But thats pretty much bs.
No, I was just in town when this was said to another player. This is STILL an ENGLISH based game. If you can't read it how the heck to you think you can play the game effectively? You can't read the quests to know the requirements to make it thru your class change even.
This is STILL an ENGLISH based game. If you can't read it how the heck to you think you can play the game effectively? You can't read the quests to know the requirements to make it thru your class change even.
You will be surprised but there is lots of huge community portals like GoHa or others where all support starting from registration on Plaync and ending quests, guides and even current news all translated and sorted. All of this job are done by entusiasts not officials because we all tired to wait normal multilingual game support. Dont you think that is funny that new subscribers came to the game from fansites and supported only by funsites? Now even Blizzard decided to provide multilingual support on all fronts because they care...
What language the game is in is pretty irrelevant to this discussion. Hell my MSN is in english, does that mean I should only be able to type english in it?
We can already type other languages, we just can't use special characters.
Heres a hint: No game company can.
1. Folk kan stadig skrive paa andre sprog, din kvajpande.
2. No game company? Try just about every game company out there from EA to Blizzard, from UO to WoW.
UO, nor WoW, nor Guild Wars, nor any game company can policy multiple languages. They do not. I dont know where you got that info from, but its entirely incorrect.
Do they allow you to type it? Sure.. can they police it? Hell no. Its a sacrifice they make.
MSN is different and you know it LC. When you make a MMO, its designed in a language. If you want to play it and you cant speak that language, thats fine and dandy if they let you. However, know that you wont get support unless you can speak the local language... *period*.
Write a GM petition in russian on WoW and see what you get. I know what you'll get... /petition closed. Want help, speak english.
Love it, hate it, it really dosent matter.. play a MMO done in whatever language you speak if you'd like, then I'll be on the other side of the fence muddling my way through and you'll be the one telling me the exact same thing.... just like I and many others of us did when we played in Korean closed beta.
No one is telling anyone to speak in english, the problem is you cannot just switch from unicode to qwerty like its normal.
Lets add korean chars to the game and see how much of a mess things get, honestly that was how L1 got and no one could understand anyone because there were 10 different keyboard languages and even someone knew an english word they couldn't type it.
When the Hellbound update went live last week, it inadvertently enabled the use of Unicode text characters on all servers. This was unintentional and should not have gone live. There are some kinks and support issues we must work out before we can permanently enable Unicode characters on our service. Today, May 1st 2008, we will be removing all Unicode text characters until further notice. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause some of our players. If we are able to support Unicode text in the future, we will make it available again.
First of all, people are going a bit nuts because they believe that NC is taking away the special characters... Apparently this is only "temporary" (whatever that entails) as there are issues.
In my opinion the larger problem is that as soon as it was known that these characters were going to be allowed in the game, NC should have said "hey guys... this is unintended as there are issues so please be patient as we will have to turn this feature off some time in the future. Heck, it should have been onthe login splash screen or wherever we used to have announcements (didn't we used to have announcements? I believe in prelude or C1?).
However, no one from NC said anything about this until now.
This to me is the largest problem and is indicative of one of the major issues with NC and its playerbase.
No offense to you Alyra as you are probably one of the most helpful and more transparent cm's we've ever had.
But there needs to be a decision from NC to actually be on top of things like this as customers want to know about information like this.
There is another game that I play (won't say the name as I don't want to get this post removed or advertise for another product which would not be "polite" imo) that the cm's actually state the issues that the game has and even indicate when the fixes will be brought to live.
For instance, one of the recent issues they had was a feature where players could report in game spammers. Apparently there was a problem with this. So, instead of just "not' saying anything and allowing players to use the feature when absolutely nothign was happening, they made a post on the forums indicating that the feature was disable, please don't use it, they were fixing it and they would let the players know when the fix was going to come.
But NC never makes it to that level or at least not on a consistent level. I don't know if this is NC Korea's doing or not but if an issue becomes apparent the player base should be immediately informed.
Not allow something like the current special character feature to go on for a bit and THEN make the announcement that it was unintended.
As you can see, players become angry. On both sides.
I truly believe that if there was more transparency and it was actually timely, though there would still be angry people, there would be more players who would be more tolerant.
Parazity!!! Vernite kirilicu, amerikoskie ekspluatatori! Shob vam v adu na kirilice razgovarivat, padonki.
j/k. LOL.
That wasn't unicode, just plain 7-bit english letters. Did you understand it? No, unless you are Slavonian. Would it make any difference with unicode? For you, english speakers, who cries that someone dares to speak language you don't understand, it would't. With unicode you will see the same text, but typed using different characters. For us it would. It's kinda hard to type using 26 (or many u have) letters, when you own alphabet has 33, and decipher (yes, decipher, not read) the text written by someone else.
The talk about language filter is a BS. If you can't write [there should be a Cyrillic word] you can always write SUKABLYAD or CYKA6JI9IADb instead. Would it make any difference to a filter? No.
In other online games there is asian characters it never disturbed me one bit. If you don't understand a language then you don't, why would the characters make any difference?
I can freely use Cyrillic in EVE or EQ2. Lineage2 is the only game I know of that discriminating it's European players. Both by increasing price for Euro by 30% and disabling Unicode.
Really, they should have just disabled it on global, trade and shout. If I'm talking to my friends, and none of us is a native english-speaker, why can we not just chat normally in our own language? The lack of just accents and "ç" does make many sentences much more difficult to figure out, let alone removing whole alphabets.
I can freely use Cyrillic in EVE or EQ2. Lineage2 is the only game I know of that discriminating it's European players. Both by increasing price for Euro by 30% and disabling Unicode.
Ya ya, rob the dots from Äs, I dont care, you're not getting more money from me. Crappiest game company there is on the market. Letting bugs from a [censored] Test Server go on live unnoticed(more than just this, lol bug) and not giving a [censored] about what the community thinks, wants or says.
Made plans yet Alyra on which servers to close and which to merge when AoC and WAR launch? Instead of adding servers, you should be closing them with such a "huge" playerbase lol.
Thank you for contacting Lineage II Support. Unicode was mistakenly applied to the Live servers. It was not meant to be available due to various logging issues with the North American/ European servers. We apologize if this caused you any inconvenience. This error has since been resolved. If you have any more questions, please let us know and we will be more than happy to assist you.
Regards,
The Lineage II Support Team
---------------------------------------
You see? The problem is that they don't have any good programmers to fix server logging systems. They would just disable unicode instead. Well, half of player base don't worth hiring a good programmer, I know.
You see? The problem is that they don't have any good programmers to fix server logging systems. They would just disable unicode instead. Well, half of player base don't worth hiring a good programmer, I know.
Indeed. BTW there was no problem with character creation and unicode - it was impossible to create char with unicode name. But sure, switching codepage if you inputed wrong password is a huge problem)
UO, nor WoW, nor Guild Wars, nor any game company can policy multiple languages.
They don't really attempt to, they still allow you to write it with all the special characters.
You can STILL write in foreign languages in L2, so your point is completely moot, I can STILL write to a gm in danish and confuse the hell out of it. All that the unicode does is allow us to use the special characters of the languages as well, making the game a heck of a lot more userfriendly, a userfriendliness just about every other MMORPG possess except L2.
The point isn't the game text or GM communication, its player to player communication.
Actually I didn't mind getting the weird spam out of global chat.. but maybe the client should have an option to enable or disable unicode(obviously client side only).
due to various logging issues with the North American/ European servers
This is just Bull... even Windows and SQL server can understand Unicode... what are they logging on? A US-English only prog made in C# ? Just add the necessary codepages to your logging facility.. it's not like it's expensive...
Thank you for contacting Lineage II Support. Unicode was mistakenly applied to the Live servers. It was not meant to be available due to various logging issues with the North American/ European servers. We apologize if this caused you any inconvenience. This error has since been resolved. If you have any more questions, please let us know and we will be more than happy to assist you.
Regards,
The Lineage II Support Team
---------------------------------------
You see? The problem is that they don't have any good programmers to fix server logging systems. They would just disable unicode instead. Well, half of player base don't worth hiring a good programmer, I know.
lmao. GameGuard have a lot more "various logging issues" and its still here.
Weak excuse. Think again, The Lineage II Support Team!
1. You're removing unicode again because it was unintentionally included (i.e. it's buggy)? It seems to work fine to me though. I see a GM responded to one person that it was a logging issue, which makes a bit more sense, but seriously, the Korean version of L2 from which our version is derived must have been able to log in unicode/characters inputted using the Korean IME. I've played the Japanese version of L2 too and it can cope with Japanese IME (i.e. romaji --> kana/kanji), native Japanese input (kana on keyboard) AND standard unicode. So I'm not sure why your logging processes are so different.
2. As for censoring text, it doesn't really make a difference if someone swears in Russian in Cyrillic or the ASCII equivalent. Either way, it's not going to get blocked. Same with people who argue they can't understand stuff in Cyrillic - why does it matter? You can't understand it in English characters either.
3. I'd prefer to see languages I can't understand in their native characters anyway. God, languages look SO ugly when butchered and forced into ASCII (especially ones with completely different alphabets like Russian).
So yah, I hope you can fix the issues with it and return unicode to service soon :) It's a nice addition to what is supposed to be the 'worldwide' version of L2 (i.e. the only version of L2 that doesn't filter IP addresses like the SE-Asian, Korean, Japanese etc versions).
The message above is my native language!!! Your forum without support of my language has ciphered it, try, decipher...
And here so we try to communicate in game without support of Russian: BePHuTe I0HuKog yBa} | {aeMble KoPeu ` LLbl HaM y} | {e HagoeJIo TaK IIucaTb!!!
Explain please that the European server means? On trial an account I saw the native language on it and have bought, now to communicate with friends in game it became impossible!!!
Oh hehehe. Well it is supposed to be temporary until they find a fix. Something must have happened for them to take the servers offline like and update the client to boot.
The point isn't the game text or GM communication, its player to player communication.
Funny, players communicated just fine before unicode.
In fact, one could even go so far as to say they communicated BETTER.. so *your* point is entirely moot, also entirely incorrect and baseless.
With *1* language being supported, you really cant sit there and tell me player to player communication was a issue. I never had a problem buying anything from a Russian, or a Danish person or someone from France.
With Unicode enabled, that completely changed, and yes I did have problems even knowing what the hell they were saying.
Unless its your idea that player to player communication is *enhanced* by having support of 50+ languages, in which case I'd call you completely crazy :)
Funny, players communicated just fine before unicode.
Because we could still communicate in our own languages, we just lacked the characters which made things more annoying and bothersome. It wasn't "communicating just fine" it was "getting by".
In fact, one could even go so far as to say they communicated BETTER
Not really
With *1* language being supported
See this is what you're not getting, ALL languages are being supported. I can still type "hold kaeft hvor er du et roevhuld" in the game. We just have to either replace or forego the special characters as I just did, which is very annoying in the flow of a natural conversation between native speakers.
It would be like you typing with several letters missing from the english alphabet, I am sure you could still get by, but it would be annyoing to communicate.
With Unicode enabled, that completely changed, and yes I did have problems even knowing what the hell they were saying.
How exactly did that change?
Are you better able to understand "roedgroed med floede" as opposed to rødgrød med fløde"?
The only minor thing that changed is that with the easy of natural communication, the large segments of foreign population used their natural language more and it stood out more with languages like russian or greek.
Unless its your idea that player to player communication is *enhanced* by having support of 50+ languages
50+ languages are supported already. Its only the unicode characters that are missing, which means that in for instance danish I am missing 3 letters, but I still have the entire rest of the alphabet.
And just about the entire mmo development industry agrees with me, because just about all mmo's from UO, to SL, WoW and AoC supports unicode.
Because we could still communicate in our own languages, we just lacked the characters which made things more annoying and bothersome. It wasn't "communicating just fine" it was "getting by".
Your still not getting it. Yes you COULD, but most DIDNT. Instead, they spoke ENGLISH.
Go back to a Euro server now (I'm on Franz for example). You no longer see massive spam of Russian, Greek, etc. Why? Because its freaking easier to just type it in English now. Just like it was before.
How exactly did that change?
Are you better able to understand "roedgroed med floede" as opposed to rødgrød med fløde"?
The only minor thing that changed is that with the easy of natural communication, the large segments of foreign population used their natural language more and it stood out more with languages like russian or greek.
I'll try to keep this really simple...
Before Unicode - Mostly english, both in shouts, hero shouts, and regular chat.
During Unicode - Mostly mixed languages in shouts, hero shouts, and regular chat.
After Unicode - Mostly english, both in shouts, hero shouts, and regular chat.
Really, I'm not sure what your not getting LC. Its painting a pretty crystal clear picture that while you *can* still type in different languages (albeit harder), most do NOT go through the trouble now and instead speak *ENGLISH*.
Therefor, it makes it *EASIER* on everyone to communicate. Someone from Russia speaking English can communicate with a Greek speaking English who can communicate with a Swede speaking English.
UNLIKE when Unicode was on, where a Russian could not communicate with a Greek who certainly could not communicate with a Swede.
It would be like you typing with several letters missing from the english alphabet, I am sure you could still get by, but it would be annyoing to communicate.
I myself loved to be able to type å ä and ö in chat (I'm swedish), my gf loved to be able to type ä ü and ö (she's german), but now again they remove that support from the client for what seems to me like bad reasons. There are so much players that does not have english as their main language, and allowing them to type their own language would benefit us all (I prefer seeing something some russian speak in cyrillic over badly broken english or russian typed with only english letters). Not all countries have good english-education at school so not everyone can type english very well.
But seeing russians babbling on about that Teon etc is Russian servers is just stupid (yes, I've seen that myself on Teon, a russian stating that Teon is a russian server), they need to get off their own high horses and learn that the game IS english-based after all, not russian. Hell, if the games language would be determined of where the servers are located, Teon, Franz and Luna should be german then :P
I'm surprised to see how many people are crying over their own language, I personally don't care, in the least, if a player wants to communicate with me he may either use english, french, romanian, or at most italian. If not, good bye!
No one is forced to speak a certain language imo, no matter how frustrating it may be that we don't understand it.
Sure for the sake of a better community english could be enforced, but heck, I don't care all that much, at least not lately.
The fact that people get so annoyed with the use of cyrillic or the greek alphabet just goes to show that the bulk of these european servers are played by them...
Your still not getting it. Yes you COULD, but most DIDNT. Instead, they spoke ENGLISH.
In the last 4 years, (in fact, since the open beta) I never seen two frenchs or two russians speaking together in english instead of their own language... in fact, the day where I will see that, I'm sure I will think it's quite odd XD
They could turn back the languages for servers ( Europeans ) Luna, Teon and Franz...
And if the support service of Lineage II do not understand different languages who hire translators or use the google translator that is free and works very well ;)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Español (Castellano):
Podrian activar de nuevo los idiomas para los servidores (Europeos) Luna, Teon y Franz
Y si el servicio de soporte de Lineage II no entienden idiomas diferentes que contraten traductores o usen el google translator que es gratis y funciona muy bien ;)
Your still not getting it. Yes you COULD, but most DIDNT. Instead, they spoke ENGLISH.
Go back to a Euro server now (I'm on Franz for example). You no longer see massive spam of Russian, Greek, etc. Why? Because its freaking easier to just type it in English now. Just like it was before.
Ti sovsem s duba upal? Posle 4h let ya vpolne bistro pechatayu na translite, luchshe chem na angliskom v lyubom sluchae. I pokazhi mne dvuh russkih chto budut chatit'sya drug s drugom na angliyskom, shovenist dolbaniy.
This is not a matter of communication, but it is a matter of common courtesy.
I mean one or two lines written in other languages for the heck of it is fine, but using it at length on public chats just shows a certain lack of manners.
If the other alphabets hadn't been spammed as much as they have on public channels, used to promote illegal activities and to circumvent swear filters, they would probably be ingame still.
I see nothing wrong when lack of ellegance is rewarded with the same coin.
Someone from Russia speaking English can communicate with a Greek speaking English who can communicate with a Swede speaking English.
Unicode doesn't magically make people unable to type in english or whatever. If someone from russian don't want to type english to everyone else, thats their business, because obviously they didn't want everyone else to understand it or they'd type it in english.
UNLIKE when Unicode was on, where a Russian could not communicate with a Greek who certainly could not communicate with a Swede.
They can if they choose to. I type in danish with most of my clannies on Teon, its funny that people didn't really take notice of it until the special characters showed up.
Therefor, it makes it *EASIER* on everyone to communicate.
Yeah, this is why every other MMO out there have removed Unicode...oh wait, they haven't, its just L2.
I suspect that NCs have their own sense of reality, they don't see anything around them but only money-money-money. They don't even bother trying to NORMALLY communicate with their customers, while continuously drawing their money away from their pockets. It's very similar to piracy. >.< Why should we respect THEIR rules while THEY don't respect OUR wishes and thoughts? IT'S TOO HARD FOR ME TO USE TRANSLIT ALL THE TIME. And I can't speak English while speaking to my Russian clanmate. >.< BTW, there are even Ctrl+C / Ctrl+V features working in WoW, and what do we get here? DISCRIMINATION!!!
Unicode doesn't magically make people unable to type in english or whatever. If someone from russian don't want to type english to everyone else, thats their business, because obviously they didn't want everyone else to understand it or they'd type it in english.
I really dont think your dealing in reality here. Do you even play on a Euro server LC? I dont think you do...
Franz without Unicode is mostly English. Franz with Unicode isnt. Its that simple.. period. No arguments, no debates, thats just the gods honest truth.
They can if they choose to. I type in danish with most of my clannies on Teon, its funny that people didn't really take notice of it until the special characters showed up.
If they choose too sure they can. Most however, dont. They do in clan chat for sure, but out in the open they do not. Wonder why? Lets think about it for a minute (or five).
Yeah, this is why every other MMO out there have removed Unicode...oh wait, they haven't, its just L2.
You dont think every other MMO out there has issues with it too?
Thats why more and more MMO's are *forcing* you to go to Euro servers if your a Euro, and US if your US. You dont have a choice anymore. (See: Warhammer, AoC in particular)
If (as you claim) everything is great in unicode land, why would they force Euro's on one server and everyone else on another? Again, lets think on this a minute (or five..).
So sure, your "correct" in saying that they arent REMOVING it, they are just segregating everyone who does us it on their own little server so they dont bother the rest of us. In the future, L2 will be the only game that will actually allow EU and NA to actually play together if they want.. I think a few sacrifices for the greater good are fine in that regard.
You know English just fine, most Danish people do, just like the vast majority of Europeans do. Speak it, it wont hurt you.
Ah maybe on Franz. On Teon it didn't change. Hero chat has always been half Russian, half Greek, and the rest was intelligent discussions.
Maybe there was a small peak of the use of personal language when unicode was the new thing, but any player who want to be read by the most of players uses English.
I won't speak for Franz, but on Teon translit Russian and Greek were already very present. And of course it's not a problem. Unless you're paranoid.
I really dont think your dealing in reality here. Do you even play on a Euro server LC? I dont think you do...
Actually I do (occationally), but thats not really relevant.
Franz without Unicode is mostly English. Franz with Unicode isnt. Its that simple.. period. No arguments, no debates, thats just the gods honest truth.
Which has nothing to do with the origional arguement. And so what if it is, they're paying customers on a european server.
If they choose too sure they can. Most however, dont. They do in clan chat for sure, but out in the open they do not. Wonder why? Lets think about it for a minute (or five).
Actually we talk danish in the open too. If they're speaking russian/greek or whatever then its clearly because they feel there's enough others that will understand them.
You dont think every other MMO out there has issues with it too?
There has been Unicode in MMOs since UO and its really never been much of an issue for other games. If people want to use other languages to exploit, then they can still do that regardless of Unicode,.
Thats why more and more MMO's are *forcing* you to go to Euro servers if your a Euro, and US if your US. You dont have a choice anymore. (See: Warhammer, AoC in particular)
What are you talking about? This has nothing to do with languages or unicode whatsoever, its all about regional marketting and official languages support (like gm's etc.), has nothing to do with the languages the players choose to speak.
On WoW US Servers, guess what...Unicode and foreign languages...On AoC servers, guess what...Unicode and foreign languages...No idea about warhammer online, but as far as I am told, they've got unicode and foreign languages as well.
If (as you claim) everything is great in unicode land, why would they force Euro's on one server and everyone else on another? Again, lets think on this a minute (or five..).
Why do they force brits (who speak english) onto euro servers then if its all about languages?
Its all about managability, regional support, regional times, regional marketting, etc. Its much easier to cater to people that way.
Again, if it had anything to do with languages, people would get annoyed too in like WoW for instance if a dane or brit have to play around russians or greeks, because we can't understand a **** thing they say either or their letters.
In the future, L2 will be the only game that will actually allow EU and NA to actually play together if they want
Actually WoW allows EU and NA to play together if they want, I play on a US server with no problems and yes, I am registered as an EU player with correct country and address, and yup, I can play just fine.
On Teon it didn't change. Hero chat has always been half Russian, half Greek, and the rest was intelligent discussions.
Intelligent discussions? In hero-chat on Teon? Certainly not in the last 2 years or so :p
Teon herochat is nothing more than a big sandbox where X and ITT throw sand on eachother like spoiled little kids (I'm better than you! No, I'm better than you! etc etc) ^^
Haven't seen a intelligent word being said there in the last two years or so (or however long Heroes have existed that is).
Unfortunately that will never change :<
I am not nitpicking, you were flatout wrong about other games and their handling of the issue.
I completely disagree frankly.
While you run a fan site, I've worked GM at two of the games you've mentioned, as well as one of my guildmembers working GM on this very game, and another being the liason for WoW in Europe.
Unicode is a issue, regardless of if you want to think its not. Developers would be thrilled if people would just speak the native language of the games they make, which in most cases is English.
The communication barriers are too extensive, so now they are forcing people to play on their own specific servers.
As for wrong, you were and are completely wrong about AoC. ****ALL**** next generation MMO's are forcing Euro's on their specific server. If you buy AoC Europe, you will ONLY be able to play on AoC Europe's servers. *PERIOD*.
You can say this is marketing and all that other jazz, however, thats simply not true.
AoC takes it a step farther then WAR by having different language servers for the EU version.
Example:
US Version (English)
Euro Version 1 (English/ UK)
Euro Version 2 (German)
Euro Version 3 (French)
Etc etc. They are segregating it even farther then any game has period. That is NOT due to marketing. That IS due to communication issues.
Furthermore, to throw even more of a monkey wrench into your 'master plan' your incorrect about WoW too, as a US account cannot play on the EU servers without being a EU account.
" Hello Azdayen,
As mentioned, you would need to create a European Account in order to play on the European Realms. More information can be found on our European World of Warcraft site: http://www.wow-europe.com/ Blizzard Entertainment Technical Support"
Developers would be thrilled if people would just speak the native language of the games they make, which in most cases is English.
Generally developers don't care what language people speak or type, as long as the official communication (both ways) serves their needs and their business strategy.
Etc etc. They are segregating it even farther then any game has period. That is NOT due to marketing. That IS due to communication issues.
That is marketting, it allows them to tailor their servers to the different audiences even in their native language, times and events. It also helps make sure that the bulk of the individual communities will be on the same servers, this again makes it a marketting/development issue. Not to mention it HELPS the company to be able to provide information, GM support, etc. in languages for people who are not very spiffy in english, again, good marketting strategy, which generally only works if the company plans on or is making a good chunk of money off it (to pay for localization, local speaking GMs, local language ads, etc.)
Its not about how players communicate with players, I should still be able to play AoC US and speak danish no problem, heck we could be a whole danish guild on there if we wanted to as things stands currently. This of course might change with more forcibly division, but if they do that, its certainly not for unicode reasons. And heck, we'll have to see if AoC even becomes really popular.
Furthermore, to throw even more of a monkey wrench into your 'master plan' your incorrect about WoW too, as a US account cannot play on the EU servers without being a EU account.
That doesn't throw monkeywrenches into my "plan", because thats americans on EU servers (not sure if they can actually create an account there). The point is that Europeans can create a US account with no problem and play on US Servers and speak their native language there with FULL Unicode support. I am at the moment on the US Server Skywall with a danish registered account and I can speak danish to my hearts content on it.
Its not about how players communicate with players, I should still be able to play AoC US and speak danish no problem, heck we could be a whole danish guild on there if we wanted to as things stands currently. This of course might change with more forcibly division, but if they do that, its certainly not for unicode reasons. And heck, we'll have to see if AoC even becomes really popular.
AoC is forcibly dividing people. Durr.. so does WoW, contrary to what your trying to lie to everyone and say. (And yes, I'm telling you straight to your face you are lying out your rear, period)
That doesn't throw monkeywrenches into my "plan", because thats americans on EU servers (not sure if they can actually create an account there). The point is that Europeans can create a US account with no problem and play on US Servers and speak their native language there with FULL Unicode support. I am at the moment on the US Server Skywall with a danish registered account and I can speak danish to my hearts content on it.
Again, see how your "twisting" words? You dont have a danish account. You have a US account. You purchased the US version of the game, not the Danish version.
You also will be required to purchase all further upgrades to the game via the US. If you wish to have TBC for example, or WotLK, they will not work if you buy the Euro versions and try to upgrade. (it will error out)
Are you spose to be doing that? Of course not. Can you? Sure... however, its crystal clear that Blizzard wants you to play on your own servers and not the US servers.
AoC and WAR will be taking it a step farther and will not actually allow you to play on a US server regardless of if you buy the US version or not.
This IS due to communication issues. You may call it marketing all you want, but the bottom line is, in group centric MMO's, it is imperative that you be allowed to communicate with everyone on a stable language.
You dont go to school with kids speaking multiple languages and being unable to communicate do you? I know I didnt, it was English. Even the Mexicans had to learn it. My daughter and son's schools are the exact same way...
MMO's are about being competitive almost like a school yard situation. How would it feel if your playing kick ball with some guy who dosent understand a word you say? Not fun eh? THATS the situation they are trying to resolve.
And apparently its all due to some stubborn Europeans who absolutely will not get off their butt and be willing to play with the majority, instead wanting to be elitists like normal.
a) they said it was temporary .. quit whining, they will reenable unicode as when they can.
Allow me to ninja quote alyra
There are some kinks and support issues we must work out before we can permanently enable Unicode characters on our service.
please translate the above in as many languages as you can so that everybody stops crying about unicode beeing gone
b) this chatbox (http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/6683/*****zu1.jpg) was posted in another forum (not by me). This chatbox annoys me. This game is english, I dont care if people choose to privately chat with each other in russian - chinese or martian, what I do care is when they lack the manners to show the other users some consideration. Ie keep shout / trade / hero etc in English. At least untill ncsoft decides to make a russian or whatever only server I think it's the bare minumum of respect you can show to people that dont speak your language.
This game is english, I dont care if people choose to privately chat with each other in russian - chinese or martian, what I do care is when they lack the manners to show the other users some consideration. Ie keep shout / trade / hero etc in English. At least untill ncsoft decides to make a russian or whatever only server I think it's the bare minumum of respect you can show to people that dont speak your language.
Thats my position exactly.
It is beyond apparent that certain Europeans are not being considerate. Thus why all new MMO's are forcing them on their own servers, where they may relish in the 20 other languages, and have fun trying to find people of a common denominator to them instead of just speaking English like the rest of the civilized world.
To LC, just forget about it. Its apparent you are not going to change position, nor am I..and no matter what you or I bring to the table it wont change. Enjoy the future of MMO's, knowing you and those like you made it happen. Say goodbye to your American friends if you dont live in the US, as soon you wont be able to play with them period.
so does WoW, contrary to what your trying to lie to everyone and say. (And yes, I'm telling you straight to your face you are lying out your rear, period)
Well, then you're just being stupid, you can register an account on the US servers as a European.
You dont have a danish account.
I said a danish REGISTERED account, not that it was danish. It was registered in Denmark, using my full details including country with no issues.
Did I have to purchase the US version of the box? Yes indeed, but that isn't really hard to get now is it.
Are you spose to be doing that? Of course not.
If we're not supposed to do that, why can you enter your country (including european countries) on a US account creation? Its pretty obvious they don't really mind it.
AoC and WAR will be taking it a step farther and will not actually allow you to play on a US server regardless of if you buy the US version or not.
We'll see how it turns out on the live versions, so far everyone plays together on both games with no issues as far as the developers are reporting.
in group centric MMO's, it is imperative that you be allowed to communicate with everyone on a stable language.
People CAN communicate together, not to mention Unicode doesn't make the difference at all. How on earth do you think the EU servers of WoW for instance function? If it was a communication issue they would collapse because people are speaking all kinds of different languages: portugese, french, polish, danish, german, etc.
Your schoolyard example is silly because thats a situation we already face, if I had an EU account in WoW, I could be meeting a portugese player who didn't speak english very well.
instead wanting to be elitists like normal.
Actually its sounding like its generally americans who wants to be elitist and arrogant.
On Teon it didn't change. Hero chat has always been half Russian, half Greek, and the rest was intelligent discussions.
Intelligent discussions? In hero-chat on Teon? Certainly not in the last 2 years or so :p
Teon herochat is nothing more than a big sandbox where X and ITT throw sand on eachother like spoiled little kids (I'm better than you! No, I'm better than you! etc etc) ^^
Haven't seen a intelligent word being said there in the last two years or so (or however long Heroes have existed that is).
Unfortunately that will never change :<
Hence why the proportions. Half, half, and the rest... ;)
I said a danish REGISTERED account, not that it was danish. It was registered in Denmark, using my full details including country with no issues.
Did I have to purchase the US version of the box? Yes indeed, but that isn't really hard to get now is it.
You were clearly implying that a Euro could go out, purchase the box, and play on US servers. That is not the case.
You actually have to special order it FROM the US. That should give you a big (big) clue right there.
Its pretty obvious they don't really mind it.
If I posted GM comments to the contrary, would you cease and desist with this stupid argument?
We'll see how it turns out on the live versions, so far everyone plays together on both games with no issues as far as the developers are reporting.
Who is telling you that? Certainly not the developers. Again, please, for the love of god, STOP lying. If you dont know what your talking about, DONT POST.
WAR has EU and US server clusters. There is a entirely different BETA APPLICATION if your Euro or US. They do NOT play together.
AoC is the EXACT SAME WAY. There are Euro servers, and US servers.
My god LC, just stop. I've got closed beta accounts to both. (Or had, sold AoC ones on realpoor) I know, and simple searches of developer posts prove it since they freaking admit it. NO WHERE have they said EU and US are playing together, because *they arent*.
Actually its sounding like its generally americans who wants to be elitist and arrogant.
The Europeans are rather known for it, sorry.
Its not our fault virtually everyone is required to learn English. Blame the British I guess, we got it from them.
You cant even speak of the situation on WoW Euro servers either since you dont play there. Please , again, refrain from speaking about things that you clearly have no knowledge about. It just makes you look either like a liar or a azz, one or the other.
You were clearly implying that a Euro could go out, purchase the box, and play on US servers. That is not the case.
You actually have to special order it FROM the US. That should give you a big (big) clue right there.
Or just get the code, either is pretty **** easy. I didn't imply that you could just buy it out of the box, I said that a european can play on US server and have full support of their language.
If I posted GM comments to the contrary, would you cease and desist with this stupid argument?
It doesn't matter, this is from their own account system, made by blizzard themselves which is higher than just a GM. You can sign up with european countries on the US account system. If they didn't want europeans on the US servers, they'd simply remove non-americas countries.
Who is telling you that? Certainly not the developers. Again, please, for the love of god, STOP lying. If you dont know what your talking about, DONT POST.
WAR has EU and US server clusters. There is a entirely different BETA APPLICATION if your Euro or US. They do NOT play together.
AoC is the EXACT SAME WAY. There are Euro servers, and US servers.
My god LC, just stop. I've got closed beta accounts to both. (Or had, sold AoC ones on realpoor) I know, and simple searches of developer posts prove it since they freaking admit it. NO WHERE have they said EU and US are playing together, because *they arent*.
Actually thats exactly what they've said.
Not sure what you're on about, I am playing with americans right now in AoC Beta . WAR, you could be right, could be the access we were given were pre-set to one region or the other regardless of what details entered, I possibly stand corrected there. Though still that doesn't prove that WAR isn't going to use the WoW model at retail and not forced seperation. (IP Blocks, Registration bound to Americas/EU, etc.)
You cant even speak of the situation on WoW Euro servers either since you dont play there. Please , again, refrain from speaking about things that you clearly have no knowledge about. It just makes you look either like a liar or a azz, one or the other.
I am with many people who do play on EU WoW Servers. That often is the situation there...how often do YOU play on the EU WoW servers?
Another marketting issue which is definetly a major reason to seperate things (which even L2 does to some extent with the seperation of codes), is to be able to control the prices and who buys what from where. This way they'll have clear data on how many europeans buy X things and how many americans (and other americas nations) and they cannot be undercut. Like for instance you can no longer buy cheap codes for the US in the EU (which is why they can get away with things being more expensive in the EU). Also it allows for region specific content like the EU Collectors edition.
If they sell their goods and offer in cyrillic, shame for them, won't get deal from me.
If they cannot read my offer, shame for them, won't get anything from me.
If they cannot petition in english, it gets closed immediately and they won't get help.
If they cannot read english when got some strange quest text, their fault, they are wasting their time looking for translation.
Add unicode back. I do not mind Cyrillic or Greek or African Bantu language. I want them having fun and communicating while playing this game.
Seriously LC, you've got some issues man. Your comparing fansite access and not knowing what the hell your talking about.
I'll sum it up by saying you are completely incorrect. The developers have never stated that you'd be playing with them. For either game.
Its a pointless argument.. since no matter what I say, what links I give, or what proof I give you brush it off and say "Oh but thats not how it was for us!!11". So whatever I guess.
I am playing on AoC with a regular account, not a fansite account.
I didn't say the developers have stated we'd be playing with them, I said there were no language issues.
Neither one of us know the final model both games are going to be released under and how enforcing they're going to be about it. And regardless of that, its still not because of PLAYER to PLAYER communcation that they're seperated.
If they're going to be like WoW, you can play on either, just not on both with same account. (nothing preventing you from having 1 EU and 1 US account)
Unicode is out
For this one game it is, yeah. Foreign languages aren't out though, can still type them ingame, circumvent rules with them and make adena ads in them to our hearts content.
And btw, Teon, Frantz and Luna aren't US servers, they're EU servers, so there it would be you who would be the inconsiderate one to complain about EU/Russian languages being there.
And finally, unless you're calling Alyra a flat out liar she didn't say anything about languages being the reason for removing Unicode, but a log issue.
Fansite access is only for war. AoC is regular play accounts.
I didn't say the developers have stated we'd be playing with them, I said there were no language issues.
Neither one of us know the final model both games are going to be released under and how enforcing they're going to be about it. And regardless of that, its still not because of PLAYER to PLAYER communcation that they're seperated.
If they're going to be like WoW, you can play on either, just not on both with same account. (nothing preventing you from having 1 EU and 1 US account)
They have said the final model they'll be running around.
Not really my fault if you dont keep up with that or not. I do, therefor, I know as do many others.
And finally, unless you're calling Alyra a flat out liar she didn't say anything about languages being the reason for removing Unicode, but a log issue.
Read the GM response and get back to me kkthx.
Alyra is a community cordinator. She says what the GM's and Developers tell her too. You do know that right? :X
If a GM says we removed it for THIS, but say THAT, she says THAT and not THIS. Its all about marketing spin. (Again, one of your favorite buzz words it seems)
All your doing is back tracking. Read your previous posts. You CLEARLY said that Euro's and US were playing together in WAR and AoC. That is ****UNTRUE****. Sure, they may have given fansite access to the US servers.. in fact I'm sure they did, since right now both EU sites are largely placeholders without alot of data in them at the moment. (The EU beta is even behind for WAR by a day or so)
That still dosent make it true for everyone else playing the game and you freaking know that.
I feel like I'm talking to a politician with how much you backtrack and shade your words, and its frankly sickening. You've got your view, I've got mine. It just so happens they agree with mine and not yours for this game and WAR/AoC. Sorry?
Thank you for contacting Lineage II Support. Unicode was mistakenly applied to the Live servers. It was not meant to be available due to various logging issues with the North American/ European servers. We apologize if this caused you any inconvenience. This error has since been resolved. If you have any more questions, please let us know and we will be more than happy to assist you.
Regards,
The Lineage II Support Team
Looks like they are saying the same thing Alyra was.
They have said the final model they'll be running around.
Not really my fault if you dont keep up with that or not. I do, therefor, I know as do many others.
Well, so you claim. Haven't seen any information beyond there being seperate EU/US servers, which indicate the WoW model.
You CLEARLY said that Euro's and US were playing together in WAR and AoC.
Which I admitted I was in error about War. AoC on the other hand I am playing a regular account with americans on the same server.
It just so happens they agree with mine and not yours for this game and WAR/AoC. Sorry?
Oh really, please link me to the statement from any of these games representatives that player to player communication is the main reason for US/EU seperation. You really won't find that, so you're still flat out wrong, I stated you the reasons why it makes sense to seperate the regions and it hasn't got anything to do with player to player communication.
Looks like they are saying the same thing Alyra was.
Go to the OTHER thread about this and read my posts, come back, and tell me what I said. I'll save you the trouble.. I said it would never work because GM's are ENGLISH.
From a PLAYER standpoint, its communication wise.
Well, so you claim. Haven't seen any information beyond there being seperate EU/US servers, which indicate the WoW model.
Warhammer Alliance, do a search.
If your in AoC beta boards (closed beta) they have already said it, which you claim to be a part of so....
I stated you the reasons why it makes sense to seperate the regions and it hasn't got anything to do with player to player communication.
I said it would never work because GM's are ENGLISH.
Read again, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE GM'S ARE, it doesn't make the slightest difference in regards to unicode at all. Its exactly the same rules, enforcements and communication.
Warhammer Alliance, do a search.
I did and here it is:
" 2) In terms of people on one continent playing on servers on another continent, we have said that we will not block IP addresses by location and neither will FT. We will not though sell versions in the US that can access the European servers and European versions that can access the US servers will also not be sold. That's how it was for DAoC and will be so for WAR as it's been since we did the deal with them."
So basically like WoW again. They're clearly not against europeans playing on US servers or visa versa or they would have stated such. There's no blocking or enforcement either. Its clearly for marketting, cost and localization reasons. (IE why would the EU distributer want EU players buying their game in the US)
If your in AoC beta boards (closed beta) they have already said it, which you claim to be a part of so....
Been scouring the boards, but haven't found anything beyond what I already said.
Any proof to back up your claim?
The proof is that this has never been stated as a reason anywhere, while the reasons I mentioned have come up. And also if it was a player to player communcation issue the rules and the interface would reflect that in the game, yet they don't.
So basically like WoW again. They're clearly not against europeans playing on US servers or visa versa or they would have stated such. There's no blocking or enforcement either. Its clearly for marketting, cost and localization reasons. (IE why would the EU distributer want EU players buying their game in the US)
You really got that out of reading that paragraph?
Wow... that makes my head spin. I got something entirely different. The important bold part is "we will NOT sell versions in US that can access Euro and vice versa".
It really cant get any more clear then that, that they DONT WANT you to play on the US servers if your EU and vice versa. If they wanted you to play on either, the version would be the same... woudnt it? (Maybe thats just logic, but hell, makes perfect sense)
The proof is that this has never been stated as a reason anywhere, while the reasons I mentioned have come up. And also if it was a player to player communcation issue the rules and the interface would reflect that in the game, yet they don't.
So you have no proof. Gotcha. (About the interface etc, are you going to sit here and lie again and say WoW dosent have language packs per territory? Please dont, I dont want to bust you *again*, its getting old)
Since Ashane is trying to prove a no-point (classic american),let's remind him that this lettering IS NOT english...
It's actually LATIN...
Do you want us to start speaking latin???
It is being used commonly in all games/applications because many countries got their alphabet by ancient Latin (comming from ancient Greek)....
That's y ppl in game can actually communicate in their own language since day 1...
It's easy for them to adapt using Latin lettering...
Oh...and btw...Alyra nor any other GM EVER stated unicode was gone for good...
They said it simply was not supposed to be implemented right now for logging issues...
They will implement it when they see fit... NC Soft's (soon)
Wow... that makes my head spin. I got something entirely different. The important bold part is "we will NOT sell versions in US that can access Euro and vice versa".
It really cant get any more clear then that, that they DONT WANT you to play on the US servers if your EU and vice versa. If they wanted you to play on either, the version would be the same... woudnt it? (Maybe thats just logic, but hell, makes perfect sense)
Yes, they're not selling the versions in either region because of marketting, it would be a mess to have two different companies (one in NA and one in EU) cross sending shipments just to name a few things. Not to mention it makes sales so much easier, because you would for instance have 200.000 US accounts, which then gives 200.000 US expansions sold which is = X dollars for the NA company. Instead of 200.000 US accounts, which only gives them 50.000 US expansions because all of a sudden they got really cheap to buy in some european country or visa versa. Since the distributing company gets money off each unit sold, its not a good thing to have accounts and games the same across regions.
If they didn't want us there, they'd simply block us, its really easy to do or prevent european sign-ups, they won't do that...why? Because they don't care if europeans play on US servers.
So you have no proof. Gotcha. (About the interface etc, are you going to sit here and lie again and say WoW dosent have language packs per territory? Please dont, I dont want to bust you *again*, its getting old)
I've got plenty of proof, in fact YOU JUST PROVIDED ONE TOO. A language pack is a localization, its not about spoken languages, its about the interface language, you can still speak danish, french, german or english in any of the language packs.
And another is NCSoft itself...if its all about languages, why exactly are they splitting up the codes in EU and US? Why? Marketting, so NCSoft EU and NCSoft NA can do their own thing with their own accounts like the Collectors edition or statistics on how much each region actually makes in or they can have different prices for each region (a major reason for most games), whats the point of setting the price for a card at X euro if a european can buy them for almost half the price in the US?
To sum up, this NCSoft their policy has always been don't like it leave.
You been playing L2 for 4 years without this **** feature now you raising holy hell because you got for 2 weeks and they removed it. Do not like it go play WoW or AOC or whatever, no one is stopping you.
Explain to me how if they add this and everyone starts typing in their native languages how do they speak english if they want to communicate with an english speaking person?
Can you explain to me why english is the most taught language as a 2nd lanuange worldwide outside native languages to that country? Do you understand why all airports and pilots have to speak english?
If there isn't a common language then no one would be able to communicate with anyone else. It is why English is the world's offical language for airports.
Sounds to me that the US crybaby's won because they are to **** lazy to learn beyond their own tongue.
I call that arrogance.
Last place to visit is the US anyway. Now I am forced to leave my fingerprints when returning to my home country (say after a vacation) as if I am a criminal per default...
You been playing L2 for 4 years without this **** feature now you raising holy hell because you got for 2 weeks and they removed it. Do not like it go play WoW or AOC or whatever, no one is stopping you.
Since when L2 = WoW = AoC?
If there were another distributor for L2, that could be an argument. But NCsoft US has the monopoly on L2 in my country.
Sounds to me that the US crybaby's won because they are to **** lazy to learn beyond their own tongue.
I call that arrogance.
Last place to visit is the US anyway. Now I am forced to leave my fingerprints when returning to my home country (say after a vacation) as if I am a criminal per default...
Go figure
Carry on
Says the Elitist Euro.
I bet learning English was heartbreaking for you wasnt it? You had to sit there and think "****, I have to learn the common language of the world and its all the fault of those Americans! Why WHY do they have to be the sole world power left.. WHYYYYY!!!!"
To sum up, this NCSoft their policy has always been don't like it leave.
And this is a behavior to encourage? As if L2 wasn't doing badly enough as it is.
You been playing L2 for 4 years without this **** feature
Why yes indeed. And its been an issue raised many times ever since the beginning.
Explain to me how if they add this and everyone starts typing in their native languages how do they speak english if they want to communicate with an english speaking person?
People type in their own languages anyway, its just more annoying, it would be like you typing english without the letter c, h and p being available.
If people want to address people generally, then they'll do so in english or whatever language suits the group. If a seller only sells in russian, well guess what, he'll only get russian customers, hence he'll lose out and thats his choice.
How the heck do you think people communicate on EU servers in other games normally despite having unicode and a dozen languages?? Its really no problem to fully support unicode whatsoever, hell UO lived with unicode with no problem for years and years and not once has it been brought up as a problem
Do you understand why all airports and pilots have to speak english?
Hello McFlyyyyy, they don't prevent you from speaking any language you want in an airport, you can speak danish, german, swahili or english if you want. You're talking about employees, thats a whole different situation. We're the passengers, not the pilot and we can talk to eachother just about anyways we please (apart from suspicous, threatening, terrorist or otherwise behavior)
If there isn't a common language then no one would be able to communicate with anyone else.
People can communicate just fine as things are, people can communicate in english or whatnot, that doesn't mean they always want to at all times. Not to mention some people aren't very good at english or feel more comfortable when around native speakers to speak in their own language.
@ Ash
Arrogant again and with a short memory too.
Frankly I like English as a SECOND language. Wrote that in another now pad-locked thread.
I like movies and most movies I watch are English spoken.
I even buy legit DVD's /Blu-rays so I can watch English movies without the annoying subtitles as you can turn those off.
English originated from Europe to begin with, so don't make this a EU vs US thing because it isn't.
:)
Is is about being polite enough to use a language commonly understood on public channels. As as the past few days have shown, the politeness does not come naturally to many and needs to be "aided" a bit ( there were more foreign language shouts with unicode than before without, so I belive removing unicode aids people in being more polite ).
I bet if the usage of various alphabets/languages was kept among ppl. who did understand them, no one would have complained on the forums.
Knowing several languages does not grant the right to be impolite towards the others that do now know them.
If the NPC text would have been in other language, then I would try my best to use that language in the game. But right now it is in English.
NO ONE GIVES A FLYING PIG if you talk to your friends in your native language, if I do not have to read it why would I care?
Well, this is what lacking unicode makes more annoying.
However, when trade, global and hero chat are filled with language a majority of people do not understand your the one being elitist not "Americans".
THEY CAN STILL DO THAT REGARDLESS OF UNICODE! Get that through your collective heads please.
I can still spam trade, global and hero chat in danish to my hearts content, nothing prevents me, there are no rules about it.
Are to simple minded to realize that english is the offical languages of lot more countries then just the US?
Like you just said, the US doesn't have an official language, so what are we left with? The UK, Canada and Australia? The rest are mostly african countries.
English originated from Europe to begin with, so don't make this a EU vs US thing because it isn't.
Actually Ashane was the one who made it an EU vs US thing by bringing up the seperation of regions in many modern games. Which is silly actually because of what you mentioned, if it was a language issue, why not allow brits on american servers to their hearts content, instead of putting them together with russians, scandinavians, germans, french, etc.
Is is about being polite enough to use a language commonly understood on public channels. As as the past few days have shows, the politeness does not come naturally to many and needs to be "aided" a bit.
I wonder how other EU servers get along then. And what if the server you're playing on is predominantly greek or russian? Are you going to be polite and speak in russian or greek?
If people weren't rude towards the rest of the community (Including OTHER Euros that do not speak their native tongue) and tried to address others in a language that everyone can understand, probably we wouldn't have this debate.
But some cultures don't like looking beyond their own little realm. I'm an Euro, I'm Italian, and I'm the first to say that Unicode was annoying simply for the fact that most of the people using them weren't respectful of others. I think the idea was to allow us non-native English speakers to communicate AMONGST OURSELVES typing in a language that we're more at ease with (especially those that use different characters). But of course the majority of the people don't have brains to think that typing in Greek, or Russian, or Danish letters in shout, trade or hero might be annoying to other people that don't know those languages.
That said...
I think the whole "Euros can't play in US servers and US can't play in Euro Servers" is the biggest BS. Not saying it doesn't happen, cause I know it does (I couldn't log in the Euro Servers in WoW to join a friend cause my account was american. Didn't even give me the chance to choose). What I'm saying is that the day that NCSoft decided to prevent me from logging in US servers, it's the day I'll stop playing their game. 99% of my L2 friends are in the US and the only reason I still play in an US server is because of them. Take that away from me and I have no reason to keep giving them my 13 euros a month.
And last point here...
Unicode or not, Heroes in Lionna still freaking spam the Hero Chat in Greek. Or Shout. Or Trade. Unicode hasn't stopped them and it never will. It's the mentality that should change, but we all know that's utopic at best.
If people weren't rude towards the rest of the community (Including OTHER Euros that do not speak their native tongue) and tried to address others in a language that everyone can understand, probably we wouldn't have this debate.
The debate about people being irrespectful by using another language has nothing to do with Unicode, as it is possible and actually done both with and without it.
But some cultures don't like looking beyond their own little realm. I'm an Euro, I'm Italian, and I'm the first to say that Unicode was annoying simply for the fact that most of the people using them weren't respectful of others.
As opposed to the respect they have using their language without Unicode? Come on.
I think the idea was to allow us non-native English speakers to communicate AMONGST OURSELVES typing in a language that we're more at ease with (especially those that use different characters). But of course the majority of the people don't have brains to think that typing in Greek, or Russian, or Danish letters in shout, trade or hero might be annoying to other people that don't know those languages.
That has always been like that. Plenty of people shouting in every channel in a language I don't know. What does Unicode has to do with that?
Unicode or not, Heroes in Lionna still freaking spam the Hero Chat in Greek. Or Shout. Or Trade. Unicode hasn't stopped them and it never will. It's the mentality that should change, but we all know that's utopic at best.
Removing Unicode hasn't stopped them either.
I don't know why there's such a debate about how it is rude to use another language in public while the game says its support is English only. This is certainly not why the Unicode has been removed.
If there are bugs to be fixed before, it's perfectly understandable. We'll wait, as always.
Yes, indeed the core issue is the people being rude, not the presence/absence of unicode.
Removing unicode however is a crutch (intended or not, that's beside the point) that is helping the community be more polite.
It shouldn't be this way, people should be more polite even if unicode was present to begin with, but many are not ( as the past days have shown us), this is why I salute anything that helps them on the polite path :).
Washtak... I know my points have nothing to do with Unicode. It was more of a comment on some of the posts in this thread. It has long gone beyond the "Unicode or not" topic.
My point was that unicode or not, it's not that the problem. It's the mentality that won't change. Unicode just makes it a little more annoying.
And quoting you here. Unicode or not, it's not making people be more polite. The problem is way, way beyond that.
On that particular topic people needs to get over themselves about it, its not really that big a deal, deal with your own stuff and not so much what someone else is typing.
The amount of English I have seen used while playing with and without unicode available, in public channels. Without unicode, I have seen more English being used. Can't give you hard statistics, but it was noticeable.
On that particular topic people needs to get over themselves about it, its not really that big a deal, deal with your own stuff and not so much what someone else is typing.
Indeed, that can work, but ignoring it does not make it right. I play MMO's to interact with people. Using a different language then the one the game world is built on (and therefore known by all or most of its inhabitants) severs some of that interaction.
Intended or not, using it at length on a public channel translates to a "I don't wanna talk with you!" statement directed at people not knowing the language in question, which I find.. not polite.
PS:My opinion :). Doesn't necessarily make it true. But that's how I believe it is perceived by many.
Sounds to me that the US crybaby's won because they are to **** lazy to learn beyond their own tongue.
I call that arrogance.
Arrogance? I'd say it's simple logic.
If you are a native non-English speaker, then the lowest common denominator for speaking with any other non-native speaker WILL be English.
If you are a native English speaker which of the many world languages do you learn to talk to the majority of other people? Spanish? Russian? Swedish? German? Greek? Chinese? Arabic? French?
And of those languages how many of them might you use in more than an 'academic' or very infrequent basis if you do not go to the places that language is spoken? (Travel frequently or work/relocation.)
In short, it's a simple matter of limits, where English IS the current 'common language'. So if you speak any other language naturally, all you really need is to learn English. But if you are already a native English speaker, then learning a second language really doesn't help more than already knowing English already does!
And FYI, the most common 'second language' in use in the US is mainly Spanish. (Due to the proximity of Mexico....) Which is of extremely limited use when communicating with the majority of Euro players.
And incidentally, the most common 'other languages' taught in schools is Spanish (natch), French and German. (Or at least those are the ones I've seen listed in high school introductory courses.)
Russian, Greek and (insert other language here) simply don't exist on a large scale, available basis for many people in the US outside of 'self taught' instruction.
Indeed, that can work, but ignoring it does not make it right.
I don't see it as right or wrong, it just is and its their choice, they're the ones communicating in their chosen manner, thats the beauty of choice.
I play MMO's to interact with people. Using a different language then the one the game world is built on (and therefore known by all or most of its inhabitants) severs some of that interaction.
Then interact away, nothing prevents you from communcating with people, just don't dictate others.
Intended or not, using it at length on a public channel translates to a "I don't wanna talk with you!" statement directed at people not knowing the language in question, which I find.. not polite.
So do you get annoyed when people out in public are talking in a manner you can't hear (not talking loud enough or whatever)?
If you are a native non-English speaker, then the lowest common denominator for speaking with any other non-native speaker WILL be English.
IF you're communicating with them. If you're communicating in your native language or another language then you're clearly communicating with other natives.
If I went up to you and talked at you in danish constantly, then yes, thats rude. But if I talk with another dane in your vicinity and speak danish, that is not rude.
I don't see it as right or wrong, it just is and its their choice, they're the ones communicating in their chosen manner, thats the beauty of choice.
Indeed,my bad, I shouldn't have said "right" I should have said "polite".
And yes, people can chose to be rude or polite, that is the beauty of choice indeed.
I play MMO's to interact with people. Using a different language then the one the game world is built on (and therefore known by all or most of its inhabitants) severs some of that interaction.
Then interact away, nothing prevents you from communcating with people, just don't dictate others.
I don't dictate, dunno where that came from :). I just salute things that I like :P. I even stated a bit up, it is just an opinion :P.
Intended or not, using it at length on a public channel translates to a "I don't wanna talk with you!" statement directed at people not knowing the language in question, which I find.. not polite.
So do you get annoyed when people out in public are talking in a manner you can't hear (not talking loud enough or whatever)?
I am rarely annoyed. What I believe you want an answer to is by what yardstick do I measure this to know whether it is rude or not?
Being at a table or another gathering of some sort and obviously concealing your words while in plain sight of the others, is considered rude. This includes whispering to someone or talking in a language not understood by everyone. The polite thing is to take the discussion elsewhere, not in plain sight (the equivalent of a PM in game). If you like I can provide links to several etiquette sites that state this rule, albeit their phrasing might be different.
The party chat, the Clan/Alliance chat, or even regular or shout chat at sieges or raids can be considered the equivalent of such gatherings in the game.
If you are a native non-English speaker, then the lowest common denominator for speaking with any other non-native speaker WILL be English.
IF you're communicating with them. If you're communicating in your native language or another language then you're clearly communicating with other natives.
If I went up to you and talked at you in danish constantly, then yes, thats rude. But if I talk with another dane in your vicinity and speak danish, that is not rude.
Unless you three are in a gathering of some sort, in which case it is rude :).
The gathering can be as little as: I am with a danish friend, we speak English, another Dane (that I don't know, but who knows my friend) comes to talk with my danish friend. If they talk at length in danish, without at least excusing themselves first, then yes it is a breach of etiquette. If there is no emergency and they both know English, then the polite thing to do is to either speak English, or take the dialogue to another room..
Do you understand why all airports and pilots have to speak english?
I am pilot... And the last time I discuss with the control tower of my airport, sorry to say that to you but... it was in french... like all the others, even a plane from another country (and, just for fun, the official langage of this other country is... english :p )
I was going to try to write this big post about my thoughts and views on the subject at hand, but then I went back and re-read the entire thread. *sigh*
Whatever I say will probaly be twisted in another's view anyway. No matter how logical I was.
I just have ONE question for everyone that has posted thus far.
Do you like playing the darn game?
Because to me, thats what it ALL boils down to, and should be all that matters. With ANY game, if it gets to the point of causing stress. I quit and find another. This is my stress reliever, and some of you are bringing me down. :D
This community can sit here and argue about this until our fingers bleed. Its not going to change anything. You'll get it when you get it, IF you get it. Theyre just waiting for this thread to get out of hand to lock it. THAT you can be sure of.
I like to play the board more these days then my now reduced-to-background characters on Live.
In fact I have not really played any of my characters on this Live version as I see little use for that.
But I agree, this thread could have been on lock-down long ago due to it's lack of useful suggestions.
But guess what, those that monitor these boards are slow to react/interact as it goes with many other aspects of this game.
When the PTS arrived this Unicode feature was there. It ran this feature some time too.
Had that been noticed better during the last PTS period and the threads that were made during it on these boards the Live upgrades would either have been with it or without this feature depending on how they figured it would evolve.
Unfortunately the lack of acting or interacting on a larger scale made these threads all to possible. Some of them bravely waste time during own their weekend to resolve some of those issue's.