I am getting the feeling everybody thinks SR is kind of useless, they arent the best at anything except crit.
How do you feel about this?
p.s. i have a 54 SR
Well I have a LE myself going Archer and I dont think that they suck.
In CT2 there will be a penalty firing in close range so they speed of the SR will come in handy to keep the distance.
And criting, Running speed and Firing speed is in my book what make them good.
The statment is made from an outside point of view getting shot to hell by an SR that is.
HE has Better Firing speed and almost as much Critt chance and they have Critt power which SR don't have. With Dash they have good running speed. I'm a Light Elf Dagger and if I sub an archer it will be a HE. :p
SR was meant to be a Better Archer with they High Dex but NC Did a Great Job in Beefing up Humans for they Lack of DEX and over did it really.
Crit power doesn't matter. STR matters, which the SR's lack. Though it doesn't make that much of a difference later on.
The one skill that makes HE's uber is... drum roll.... QUIVER OF ARROWS! +50% carry capacity combined with high CON = uber pot spammers!
SRs are good archers, and at end game HE=PR=SR more or less, they'll equally put your [censored] down. A common mistake is to pit archers up against each other, no point in that because you should be pitting them against every other class in the game, oh and HE will most likely win because of higher CON :p Each has their strenghts.. IMO choose the one that looks good to you and go with it.
The CT2 notes say that damage will be impacted by range, but I have seen conflicting reports on how that will work. Whether it is more damage or less damage at close range. I can envision arguments either way.
If long-range damage is getting nerfed, HE's are gonna be sad pandas. If short-range damage is getting nerfed, SR's will need to do much longer kiting and faster attacks will be less useful.
SRs can get better firing speed than HE using the right skills and with tats. But yes, it does seem everyone who subs and archer goes HE for various reasons.
HE noway has better firing speed than SR..and you dont have "permadash" to keep the distance in gracia.
Honestly I dont get this bubble about HEs. I played all 3 archer and disliked the HE the most.
Give them Majestic set and Drac Bow no tatts and tell me who has a Higher Attack Speed.
The HE Passive Skills more then make up for they Low DEX
In fact look at HE Critt chance It's higher then PR and PR has more DEX. not Good as SR but They Critt POWER & STR makes up for that and they have Uber CON to top it all off Just Look at HE CP.
61 HE in maj light + SB, +4 str +2 dex, selfbuffed : 301 atkspeed
62 SR in maj light + SB, +5dex, selfbuffed (no rapid fire): 307 atkspeed (369 with rap fire)
61 HE in maj light + SB, +4 str +2 dex, selfbuffed : 301 atkspeed
62 SR in maj light + SB, +5dex, selfbuffed (no rapid fire): 307 atkspeed (369 with rap fire)
Now give your HE +3 more Dex so it has +5 dex like the SR and use Rapid Shot lvl 2 that HE get then look at the attack speed.
LOL that was a ...........um ok that was not even a nice try you gave the SR +5 dex and rapid fire and only gave the HE +2 DEX and Didn't use it's rapid Shot come on get real.
61 HE in maj light + SB, +4 str +2 dex, selfbuffed : 301 atkspeed
62 SR in maj light + SB, +5dex, selfbuffed (no rapid fire): 307 atkspeed (369 with rap fire)
Now give your HE +3 more Dex so it has +5 dex like the SR and use Rapid Shot lvl 2 that HE get then look at the attack speed.
LOL that was a ...........um ok that was not even a nice try you gave the SR +5 dex and rapid fire and only gave the HE +2 DEX and Didn't use it's rapid Shot come on get real.
Its rapid fire, an exclusive SR self buff. Which gives it superior atk speed to any archer. Not the rapid shot every archer gets.
I used l2calc and came up with this to throw into the debate: both have full pp buffs, PoF & rapid shot +5 dex +4 str -9 con. Identical +3/4 Draconic light & +3 drac bow w/focus.
In every instance, the HE has only 3 to 5 more atk speed over an equal configured SR. When SR hits rapid fire buff, it gets 138 more atk speed. Thats a little more noticeable, imo. And that matters when it comes to refreshing stun, dbl shot, etc. Only drawback is shortened attack range, but for an SR run speed, hardly an issue.
Additionally, in this identical configuration with the SR's stacking buff, the SR deals 1078.4 dmg per second, while the HE deals 944.3 dmg per second. Without rapid fire, the SR deals about 869.4... a difference of less than 75 dmg. Rapid fire gives it 134 more dps over the HE. And with +5 dex, rapid fire can be rebuffed less than a minute after it wears off.
I didn't include snipe because it basically keeps you rooted, which means if you get too much aggro you're dead, which means negative dps. :p The same goes for pvp. But if you wanna use snipe, the HE gets 1047 dmg per sec, which is still less than the SR with its own unique archer buff.
Basically it comes down to what you like to play... they each have their strengths & weaknesses. The SR is not useless...
LOL that was a ...........um ok that was not even a nice try you gave the SR +5 dex and rapid fire and only gave the HE +2 DEX and Didn't use it's rapid Shot come on get real.
That much to knowledge obtained by some l2calc..as Arakeen said Rapid Fire is a unique SR buff, and when I wrote "selfbuffed" ofc I gave both their Rapid Shot...and like I would change the tats just to prove you wrong o.O
Ashley, thought you were talking about Critical Power passives, HE and PR gets level 2 and it adds like 52 patk on a critical hit. Hence, it doesn't matter.. it also means that Vicious stance is also useless on an archer.. 609patk(?) still doesn't matter on a critical hit.
Proof: An archer has 3.5K patk, quadruple that with SS on a crit, add DW + Fire and you're already up at 27440 patk critical hit :o You can easily double that with CoV, cat and boss jewels. This is why archer crits are so bad [censored]!
STR is the only thing that directly affect DPS in a meaningful way for archers.
Hope I've killed the Crit Power passive myth once and for all! :p
Well I didn't get my SR to 60+ before deleting it so I didn't know about Rapid Fire which only last a Min I take it? then they right back to being slower then HE till they can buff it again in less then a min which you say if they are over buffed and rich with boss Jewelry yep everyone have access to that 2. Any way so HE faster but SR can be faster lot faster at 60+ for 1 min every 2 mins I take it?
And Mulch I understand what your saying and thank you for the info but I still would like a critt passive on my light elf :(
And wait how come SR have a shortened attack range?
and I notice Arbalester is short also. they have 900 skill range but when I use a normal attack range it runs closer 2 the mob first. Why give a clan 900 range skills and they normal attack is shorter.
Seams like the more I find out about the different classes I don't have the more I see why people complain. Grated some of the things they do are dumb but at least they are trying fix some things like the Rapid Fire but would of been nice to just give the other 2 races the Boost Attack Speed passive.
The shorter range is in effect only when rapid fire buff is used. Its part of the trade-off for the big boost. It also lasts about 3-4 mins (something weird like that) I think... idk, I can't really remember. :confused: Some active SR's here can probably enlighten us.
Ok then that's a little better but I still would like the Boost Attack Speed passive better. It comes in handy if you want aoe with a pole or use a dagger in the catta becasue bows suck in the catta solo. But SR don't get Boost Attack Speed passive so HE Will make a better Archer sub for me. ;)
It also lasts about 3-4 mins (something weird like that)
Buff lasts 2 minutes and reuse is between 2.5 - 4 minutes depending on your attack speed.
As for SRs beeing inferior to other archers - when comparing damage on critical hit, they are inferior even to arbalester, who gets free dw as a selfbuff. But in the end it all depends on level, gear and luck IMO. The only things that I really envy HEs is HP/CP and pain of Sagittarius.
People prefer other archers in party, cause of SRs bad mp management and the fact, that most of them don't realize, that SR has the highest dps of all archers (assuming recharger is in party and we don't count boss jewels which not everyone can posess)
Also SRs lack good skills like hex or quiver of holding, but they make it up with their good look - at least females ;)
I'm telling you, male SRs are handsome too. :)
For some reason, people don't think so highly of them, but my SR is and will still be my favourite ever -- even if we are nerfed like hell in the future. Only my SR's running speed, increased by +DEXT, has been enough to save me of troubles lot of times.
The other DD I respect is Plains Walkers. If I ever make it there (and don't die of boredom during grinding), PW is going to be my sub.
Edit to delete my note to NC. I realised I made a mispelling and thus the censoring of the word. *whistles in the wind*
I'm telling you, male SRs are handsome too. :)
For some reason, people don't think so highly of them, but my SR is and will still be my favourite ever -- even if we are nerfed like hell in the future. Only my SR's running speed, increased by +DEXT, has been enough to save me of troubles lot of times.
The other DD I respect is Plains Walkers. If I ever make it there (and don't die of boredom during grinding), PW is going to be my sub.
Edit to delete my note to NC. I realised I made a mispelling and thus the censoring of the word. *whistles in the wind*
I like my PW alot. I was a moment away from going SR a few years back, chose PW.
Our blows might be the softest of them all, but our lethals, run speed and crit rate are to be feared >.<.
I think u guys forget that archers are not only simple shot, HE have a better chance in landing stun shot cause of the higher str and i think double shot do more damage too. The other thing is that HE can use QR for pve, well i have used it for pvp also before the focus bows, and SR must use CS otherelse he will burn MP too fast. Correct me if im wrong pls.
SR are great for guild vs guild pvp. Not in straight up fights, but for scouting, sniping ppl solo, or running with other SRs in a scouting party.
Also for sieges a SR is nice to scout around the castles continually. HE could do that, but they would be slower.
SR can also entangle melee that are off by themselves and either kill them, or kite them long enough till help arrives.
SR are great for guild vs guild pvp. Not in straight up fights, but for scouting, sniping ppl solo, or running with other SRs in a scouting party.
Also for sieges a SR is nice to scout around the castles continually. HE could do that, but they would be slower.
SR can also entangle melee that are off by themselves and either kill them, or kite them long enough till help arrives.
If you have a SE you could use her/him to recharge your SR as well. What's the point of bringing up the issue of trading HP for MP then?
ok let me break it down for you.
First terry said
I think u guys forget that archers are not only simple shot, HE have a better chance in landing stun shot cause of the higher str and i think double shot do more damage too. The other thing is that HE can use QR for pve, well i have used it for pvp also before the focus bows, and SR must use CS otherelse he will burn MP too fast. Correct me if im wrong pls.
Then Shinnai said
bows have a fixed amount of mp that they consume, no matter what class.
So I was pointing out what I think Terry meant in his statement of HE and PR using QR and SR using CS as a SA on a BOW
Because of the fact that Both HE and PR can Eat they HP for MP.
I can read, I know how we ended up there. But since we are talking about archers per se, no point in bringing up the calvary, be it SE, cougar, EE or whatever. ;)
Yes, you are correct. Silver Ranger is the only archer who doesn't have a skill to trade HP for MP.
Now, now. That's what I would like in some future update. *keeping dreaming..*
I can read, I know how we ended up there. But since we are talking about archers per se, no point in bringing up the calvary, be it SE, cougar, EE or whatever. ;)
Yes, you are correct. Silver Ranger is the only archer who doesn't have a skill to trade HP for MP.
Now, now. That's what I would like in some future update. *keeping dreaming..*
That would be against the LE's way
Best thing is for them 2 get a Skill like the SE and EE get for recovering MP ;)
SR are great for guild vs guild pvp. Not in straight up fights, but for scouting, sniping ppl solo, or running with other SRs in a scouting party.
Also for sieges a SR is nice to scout around the castles continually. HE could do that, but they would be slower.
SR can also entangle melee that are off by themselves and either kill them, or kite them long enough till help arrives.
I like SR quite a bit
you think a SR runs faster then a PW?
your out of your mind!
PW has more run speed.
WR @ 81 gets wind riding, thats 30 seconds of +20 run speed, +20 evasion, and physical skill evasion, and skill land rate.
PW has higher evasion then SR.
PW can skip CP and hit right to HP for 1 shot.
While on this. a small group of PW/WR could out dmg any group of SR's. so your 3 SR's..would be nothing if you have 1 PW in front of you and one hitting you from behind.
Only crts is the saving grace of a SR, and even that doesn't compare to a PW crt rate, cause a PW has higher natural crt rate with our passives.
You miss my point - certainly a group of daggers can outdamage archers in close range, however, as I wrote before, if you are looking for mobile, tactical scouting/ranged support that can pack a punch, a SR excels at this.
Having the ability to attack someone at 900 range plus having high enough speed that 95% of classes in the game cannot catch you, is an excellent benefit.
If you have a SE you could use her/him to recharge your SR as well. What's the point of bringing up the issue of trading HP for MP then?
ok let me break it down for you.
First terry said
I think u guys forget that archers are not only simple shot, HE have a better chance in landing stun shot cause of the higher str and i think double shot do more damage too. The other thing is that HE can use QR for pve, well i have used it for pvp also before the focus bows, and SR must use CS otherelse he will burn MP too fast. Correct me if im wrong pls.
Then Shinnai said
bows have a fixed amount of mp that they consume, no matter what class.
So I was pointing out what I think Terry meant in his statement of HE and PR using QR and SR using CS as a SA on a BOW
Because of the fact that Both HE and PR can Eat they HP for MP.
Is that clear now?
;)
And I still say that HE/PR can NOT use QR in PvE because Pain of Sagi isnt enough to keep their HP+MP up. And please dont start again with cougar/SE heals ~.~
LoL of course they can, u just need to know how to manage your mp. And its a lot easyer at places with herbs. I can LvL solo during one hour with a BOP+QR without going full out of mp. And with recharges its piece of cake.
Learn to read...there is no "know how to manage your mp", fact is WITHOUT HEAL/HERB/RECHARGE you cannot keep your mp up. Also who cares about lvling ONE hour? To reach something in this game you gotta do minimum 6 times that amount...
without herbs, recharge and etc u U WILL NOT LVL [censored] ANYWERE with an archer 6 hours in a row, ah, sry u cant carry shots/arrows for 6 hours, so stop this BS of "they cant", If u dont know how to use QR with a HE/PR sry for you.
erm yes you can...PP buffs (wow its no recharger!!) and crystals to summon arrows when you run out of em. Also soe/restock/port back each lets say 2 hours would be hardly enough time to regen your freaking mp.
And yes @ Ash that was kinda my point ^^ so /case closed :p
Since I think there was some confusion over Rapid SHOT, and I'm too lazy to read every post, I'll clarify.
Rapid SHOT is a self buff skill that increases bow attack speed. The buff is a TWENTY MINUTE buff like all the elves self buffs and has no cooldown. It's first rank is learned at level 32, second (and last) at 55. This buff DOES STACK with haste. Thus, putting SR's above HE's in attack speed.
Rapid SHOT is a self buff skill that increases bow attack speed. The buff is a TWENTY MINUTE buff like all the elves self buffs and has no cooldown. It's first rank is learned at level 32, second (and last) at 55. This buff DOES STACK with haste. Thus, putting SR's above HE's in attack speed.
Only if the HE dosent buff Rapid Shot as well...since uh.. they get it too :)
They are talking about the SR's version of Snipe/Deadeye, which is learned far later in levels.. Rapid Fire.
Decreased range (by 300) with increased attack speed. Owns in certain instances, dosent own in others... same as Snipe really. (Deadeye is pretty **** good all the time ;X)
Just wondering but doesn't the use of a dagger (which the HE has more str) impact it all. Range the enemy than dagger them right? Or range run. It seems like the HE would have the option of either...
Every archer has this option because up to level 20 they all get dagger masteries. After that, if you pick up the archer class, all your masteries go for bow.
In PvE works, especially if you run out of MP (every shot with your bow consumes MP. Yes, it's lame); then you use your dagger, as an emergency solution. In PvP you wouldn't like that. Best tactic is to hit and run, or stay there and take the heat. SRs can't do that, but HEs can take more damage as their weight carrying capacity allows them to carry more CP potions. Even so, archers are not tanks, neither daggers to finish the job in close combat. Staying at range works to their own benefit.
Every archer has this option because up to level 20 they all get dagger masteries. After that, if you pick up the archer class, all your masteries go for bow.
In PvE works, especially if you run out of MP (every shot with your bow consumes MP. Yes, it's lame); then you use your dagger, as an emergency solution. In PvP you wouldn't like that. Best tactic is to hit and run, or stay there and take the heat. SRs can't do that, but HEs can take more damage as their weight carrying capacity allows them to carry more CP potions. Even so, archers are not tanks, neither daggers to finish the job in close combat. Staying at range works to their own benefit.
Dagger and Bow Masteries up to lvl 36. Then you can pick dagger or archer and don't have a choice anymore.
Every archer has this option because up to level 20 they all get dagger masteries. After that, if you pick up the archer class, all your masteries go for bow.
In PvE works, especially if you run out of MP (every shot with your bow consumes MP. Yes, it's lame); then you use your dagger, as an emergency solution. In PvP you wouldn't like that. Best tactic is to hit and run, or stay there and take the heat. SRs can't do that, but HEs can take more damage as their weight carrying capacity allows them to carry more CP potions. Even so, archers are not tanks, neither daggers to finish the job in close combat. Staying at range works to their own benefit.
Dagger and Bow Masteries up to lvl 36. Then you can pick dagger or archer and don't have a choice anymore.
>< *need for caffeine*
Thanks for the correction, Gab. For some reason I was thinking 2nd class transfer at level ... 20! Duh
highest accuracy sux fo shure
highest evasion sux fo shure (next chronicle will matter more)
highest run speed sux for shure (very hard to run away from)
highest crit sux for shure
highest atk speed/reuse of skills sux fo shure
good cp/hp sux for shure
rapid fire sux for shure (killer against close range melee)
only thing that sux a bit is his strength but u cant have everything in this world
highest accuracy sux fo shure
highest evasion sux fo shure (next chronicle will matter more)
highest run speed sux for shure (very hard to run away from)
highest crit sux for shure
highest atk speed/reuse of skills sux fo shure
good cp/hp sux for shure
rapid fire sux for shure (killer against close range melee)
only thing that sux a bit is his strength but u cant have everything in this world
i think its not too shabby IMO
600 atk range. Maybe 700 if your 78+. Maybe 800 if you get long shot from dagger sub.
you're still out still out dmged by sag. You're still out ran by well alot of classes, cause SR run speed isn't higher then a WR, a kamael, dash HE/Avd.
Max atk speed, not really.
might have high acc, idk.
WR is still higher evasion.
any one with CoV, and hunter + drac bow can max crt rate, or get **** close. so highest crt rate is a joke.
lol good cp/hp...you think a SR is any where near HE for CP or HP? how about +CP T-shirts.
And your dmg is the lowest of all archers. Don't forget song of windstorm, blade storm, chant of protection.
and the change to archer dmg by range to target in ct2.1 (which is less then 1 month away).
highest accuracy sux fo shure
highest evasion sux fo shure (next chronicle will matter more)
highest run speed sux for shure (very hard to run away from)
highest crit sux for shure
highest atk speed/reuse of skills sux fo shure
good cp/hp sux for shure
rapid fire sux for shure (killer against close range melee)
only thing that sux a bit is his strength but u cant have everything in this world
i think its not too shabby IMO
600 atk range. Maybe 700 if your 78+. Maybe 800 if you get long shot from dagger sub.
you're still out still out dmged by sag. You're still out ran by well alot of classes, cause SR run speed isn't higher then a WR, a kamael, dash HE/Avd.
Max atk speed, not really.
might have high acc, idk.
WR is still higher evasion.
any one with CoV, and hunter + drac bow can max crt rate, or get **** close. so highest crt rate is a joke.
lol good cp/hp...you think a SR is any where near HE for CP or HP? how about +CP T-shirts.
And your dmg is the lowest of all archers. Don't forget song of windstorm, blade storm, chant of protection.
and the change to archer dmg by range to target in ct2.1 (which is less then 1 month away).
lol, we are comparing sr vs he vs pr here, not sr vs everything else...
the things i said in my previous post are not true if u compare sr vs all, only sr vs the 2 other archers.
but anyway u mention 4 classes that outrun sr (glad and tyrant can do too, but the first has long reuse and the second gimps dmg), is that well a lot of classes? There are at least 3 times as many pvp classes as that that are slower than sr.
max atk speed among archers yes, and with rapid fire can surpass bd atk speed easily (still with bow delay, but stats are stats)
evasion is close to WR with evade shot
sr is very close to he in terms of hp, like 600 less. cp difference is a little greater, but its not as much as u think it is.
anyway archers are getting nerfed a bit next chronicle. so are mages. lets hope that the boost in melee will make a difference in open pvp.
all archers are good, sure Pr and HE can get 6k patk but none of them can top 1,5k atk speed like SR can.
they still can get 240+ run speed too with counter dash
Just today I noticed... Matsumoto darling, SRs do not have 600 Attk range, but 900 as any other archer. What reduces their attack range to 600 is Rapid Fire skill -- I think we had talked about it in another thread.
Just to clarify. Please, don't go on an "anti-SR" spree now. :)
Just today I noticed... Matsumoto darling, SRs do not have 600 Attk range, but 900 as any other archer. What reduces their attack range to 600 is Rapid Fire skill -- I think we had talked about it in another thread.
Just to clarify. Please, don't go on an "anti-SR" spree now. :)
look I know that SR has atk range of 900, 1k at 78 (their passive).
but if they are using rapid fire, then thats cut to 600 (like you said).
I'm going off the fact that SR should be using RF all the time so will always have 600 atk range. If they don't cause they prefer to lose atk speed, and P atk over range then so be it.