I had a lengthy read of the Gladiator skills and was suprised to see skills for blunts and swords all the way to 74. Obviously the triple sonic slash, and the other slash don't work without duals, but how come we never see a Gladiator without duals?
The skill list seems to suggest more skills available for non-duals, than there are specifically for them, which seems odd.
Any thoughts? A Gladiator with a blunt? With a Dual hand sword?
I tried a Glad with Blunt and no duals on PTS. from 40 to 75.
Glad to me is more Powerful and deadly with a Blunt and they can still do they sonic range with the Blunt. You can't Stun with Dual hand sword so just forget them. It was fun PVP with other classes and they had no idea what I was and spent most of they time stun. Glads have some very powerful attacks with Blunts.
Now Notice I said from 40 to 75. Once you become a Duelist there is no reason to use a Blunt at all you don't get any new skills for blunts after 74 and you get your best skill at 78 that require Duals. The way SP is, no way are you going to get all your blunt and Dual skills up to 74. You have 2 pick one or the other. becasue of the fact after 3rd class change you have 2 use duals there is no point in wasting much needs SP on blunt Skills. ;)
I tried a Glad with Blunt and no duals on PTS. from 40 to 75.
Glad to me is more Powerful and deadly with a Blunt and they can still do they sonic range with the Blunt. it was fun PVP with other classes and they had no idea what I was and spent most of they time stun. Glads have some very powerful attacks with Blunts.
Now Notice I said from 40 to 75. Once you become a Duelist there is no reason to use a Blunt at all you don't get any new skills for blunts after 74 and you get your best skill at 78 that require Duals. The way SP is, no way are you going to get all your blunt and Dual skills up to 74. You have 2 pick one or the other. becasue of the fact after 3rd class change you have 2 use duals there is no point in wasting much needs SP on blunt Skills. ;)
Interesting... So, it _may_ make sence to skill for blunts purely for a subclass to fill Noblesse :)
Yes if you have no plans on taking it to 78 yes you can do that. in fact I got ready to do that on my Sub but I want the level 78 skill so I toss the blunts idea out the window.
I did however notice that glads get Light armor skills and me being a PW figure why not it will save me a ton on Armor and the fact that all but 2 of my Alts wear Light armor and I have a Box buffer and should be fine. So far it's been Great PVE wise. But for PVP Light armor sucks but I suck at PVP anyway so heh don't manner. Sticking with Light all the way.
I did try Tallum and it's nice Armor for Glads but dam ugly on LE so I stay with my DC (when I'm Solo) , Majestic (When doing RB with my Bow) , And NM (When I'm tanking in a group) light armors.
I did try Tellum and it's nice Armor for Glads but dam ugly on LE so I stay with my DC (when I'm Solo) , Majestic (When doing RB with my Bow) , And NM (When I'm tanking in a group) light armors.
Not to be mean or anything... but I disagree with you there! Personally, I think that DC light is hideous on LE females, while I've always loved Tallum heavy on them. In fact, when A-grade first came out (long before I was even close to subbing), I thought Tallum heavy was so pretty that I wanted to reroll just so I could wear it. ^_^ I was so excited when I hit A-grade on my glad and could finally wear Tallum after all these years.
I'm somewhat inexperienced in using blunts/swords (not used it at all infact, lol) on my gladdie but the way the skills look it makes them look like gladdie being big "wannabe" tank that wont be able to mitigate damage anywhere near the true tanks capability BUT you'll have (much) more firepower than the tank. Not enough to tank RB's but plenty for party tanking. Stun is always nice to have in low lvl pvp so i can see the point there. (hell if you have the gear and sp its a viable option for highlvl pvp too)
Duals is if you want to use the more powerful skills and with luck+player skill you can have some really nice spike dmg in pvp and pve both. People say "gladdies dont use skills in pve [censored] [censored] [censored]..." but hey if you have them skills why not use 'em? they'll push up your dps alot from just going with sword/blunt+shield and they cost you nothing but mp (except for the 2 aoe skills which consume 2-3 energystones each nuke... the energystones are cheap though so no real stress about that). Besides some of them look cool so they kinda eas up the daily grind that way too ^^
if you wanna play blunt, go make a ***** dorf haha
this thread just ***** crack me up haha
Call me crazy. The gladiator skills are good enough to be able to use blunts very well. And hey, you know what? I don't care a bit if its less dps than duals, its something different, something that suprises people, and might be fun to play. Hence why I asked.
if you wanna play blunt, go make a ***** dorf haha
this thread just ***** crack me up haha
Call me crazy. The gladiator skills are good enough to be able to use blunts very well. And hey, you know what? I don't care a bit if its less dps than duals, its something different, something that suprises people, and might be fun to play. Hence why I asked.
In what conceivable way is it more fun to kill mobs with a blunt rather than duals or vice-versa?
I can understand why people said AoE was fun, you'd pull big crazy trains and your HP would get real low and at times it would get pretty close to being a failure and you'd end up killing all the mobs in that crazy pull, that at least kept you on your toes and didn't drive you insane with the monotony caused by single target xp.
Killing mobs with a blunt or duals though, I fail to see how one could be more fun than the other. Your higher level skills lean towards the use of duals, you get more benefit from them and don't come at me with the stun argument, stun is worthless without boss jewels. You may as well be smart and spend your SP on the skills more beneficial to your toon overall.
if you wanna play blunt, go make a ***** dorf haha
this thread just ***** crack me up haha
Call me crazy. The gladiator skills are good enough to be able to use blunts very well. And hey, you know what? I don't care a bit if its less dps than duals, its something different, something that suprises people, and might be fun to play. Hence why I asked.
Is it worth it to nerf yourself in pvp and pve just to "surprise" ppl when they see u? or "show" that you're different?
fun... i ll tell u whats fun. critting a mob 4 times in a row and killing it is fun.
crit duals is the way to go if u want to xp fast and efficiently(actually make money out of xping)
or you can go blunt, nm heavy and +con and feel "special"
As it is now, it looks like non dual weapons are better then duals. Why? Element stones.
Before people say ****, this is my reasoning:
2 handed Blunt with max element on weapon, will do a good damage with Fatal strike and hammer crush who are also enchanted with the same element as the weapon. You can still use the AoE's + Blaster.
They pretty much nerfed Duelist/Gladiators compared to other classes by not allowing them to enchant skills like most classes can do. We don't rely on normal hits, so yea sucks...
if you wanna play blunt, go make a ***** dorf haha
this thread just ***** crack me up haha
Call me crazy. The gladiator skills are good enough to be able to use blunts very well. And hey, you know what? I don't care a bit if its less dps than duals, its something different, something that suprises people, and might be fun to play. Hence why I asked.
Is it worth it to nerf yourself in pvp and pve just to "surprise" ppl when they see u? or "show" that you're different?
fun... i ll tell u whats fun. critting a mob 4 times in a row and killing it is fun.
crit duals is the way to go if u want to xp fast and efficiently(actually make money out of xping)
or you can go blunt, nm heavy and +con and feel "special"
not really a nerf
I tried it on PTS with Heavy armor and a Shield and I won a lot of fights. Even fights with Glads that had +4 or More S80 Duals. Of course I have +6 s80 Unsealed Heavy Armor and +10 S80 Blunt but I also suck at PVP.
Shock a lot of people who could not figure out if I was a Pladin or DA with some Special Skills.
The Ones that knew I was a glad were saying for a Gimp setup your a Monster to PVP. ;)
It was fun on PTS but for live you really want to go Duels for the simple fact that after 3rd Class change there is no skills for blunts at all. Also the fact dualist spirit at 62 only works with duals and is a very nice skill for PVE. I would only do the blunt setup if your 100% sure your not going do 3rd class change. ;)
2 handed Blunt with max element on weapon, will do a good damage with Fatal strike and hammer crush who are also enchanted with the same element as the weapon. You can still use the AoE's + Blaster.
In PvE, your not going to be using your skills anyway, so duals would still be better. Both could have their element maxed, and you'd still do more DPS (Hi duelist spirit) with duals.
In PvP, you'd be gimp as hell because your going to what..... charge up? Without Rage, your shooting yourself in the foot in terms of sustained DPS at range. Fatal strike (even with max element) will not touch TSS crits.
They pretty much nerfed Duelist/Gladiators compared to other classes by not allowing them to enchant skills like most classes can do.
I guess I agree in a way, however, its not like we didnt have a advantage anyway.. with our crits using STR instead of DEX.
Glad's are far from gimp even in the era of elements with us having absolutely none. Shows you what "will" happen if we ever get a chance to enchant for element :P
Anyway, theres being unique, and then theres making yourself gimp just because with absolutely no reason.
Hmm, I have Lvl 79 Gladiator with a 76 BD sub-class.
I had competed in Olympia everyweek. I won almost all of my matches. Overenchant your skills when you hit lvl 78. Use the bt or other wepons to gain some skills. Majestic is usually better. Also you need about +6,7 con or so. Either you killl the other player fast, or say good-bye to your mp, and good-bye to the match ..^oo^ v
In PvE, your not going to be using your skills anyway, so duals would still be better. Both could have their element maxed, and you'd still do more DPS (Hi duelist spirit) with duals.
In PvE duals are the worst weapons IMO. A 2 handed sword with focus will be better. You need to crit 2 times per swing round to outdamage 1 crit of a two handed sword. Another point is that you waste SS on duals if you miss one swing where on a two handed weapon you keep it (not like it matters). Anyways, I haven't xp'ed with my duals since a long time. AoE all the way.
In PvP, you'd be gimp as hell because your going to what..... charge up? Without Rage, your shooting yourself in the foot in terms of sustained DPS at range. Fatal strike (even with max element) will not touch TSS crits.
I am not saying its the best sollution, but it aint gimped Either. With all the chaining you can do, you will drop non heavy armor users very fast. You only need to charge 2 times for Sonic Blaster, AoE's come free with it.
In PvE duals are the worst weapons IMO. A 2 handed sword with focus will be better. You need to crit 2 times per swing round to outdamage 1 crit of a two handed sword. Another point is that you waste SS on duals if you miss one swing where on a two handed weapon you keep it (not like it matters). Anyways, I haven't xp'ed with my duals since a long time. AoE all the way.
In the case of blunt vs duals, duals win for the Glad. Duals also have the bonus of being extremely cheap compared to other weapons when OE'ed. So you typically get far higher p.atk at a fraction of the cost.
As for the 2H Sword, its DPS will not equal Duelist Spirit 2 + Duals. (Kesh*Kesh+4 vs InfMaster+4 w/ just Duelist Spirit = 204.7 DPS vs 178.3. Clear winner in favor of Kesh. Add buffs... (full buffs + dances + songs.. 552 vs 505.3. Still a clear winner in favor of the Kesh's)
Since your tatoo'ed out for DPS, you can keep up Duelist Spirit non stop with Fury up.
I am not saying its the best sollution, but it aint gimped Either. With all the chaining you can do, you will drop non heavy armor users very fast. You only need to charge 2 times for Sonic Blaster, AoE's come free with it.
Your meant to be played with Duals. Why in the world would you gimp yourself? Why not just use C grade duals if thats the case... seems rather, dumb, to me.
The damage comparison of Duals vs a Blunt for your skills is even more out of wack. (Hi Duelist Spirit)
this is the debate within the thread. arguing one side vs the other. you seem to have made your point. now lets let everyone else make theirs.
clearly, your argument is Pro duals. Clearly your argument is for end game pvp.
now get off your high horse and let the rest of the people decide if blunt or duals would be best in low level pve and non-oly sub-high or mid-level pvp.
this is the debate within the thread. arguing one side vs the other. you seem to have made your point. now lets let everyone else make theirs.
clearly, your argument is Pro duals. Clearly your argument is for end game pvp.
now get off your high horse and let the rest of the people decide if blunt or duals would be best in low level pve and non-oly sub-high or mid-level pvp.
I've posted exactly twice in the thread, its not like I'm on a posting spree here ;) The second post was the information post.
Its also hardly "end game pvp". You can clearly see the numbers... duals win. Thats how good duelist spirit is.
The DPS is clearly in favor of duals for even PvE, although some would like to tell you otherwise. The only one its not in favor of is of course poles.. since that destroys anything in terms of exp per hour %.
They can "decide" all they wish, I'm just posting the *facts* that Duals will usually beat out most weapons in terms of pure DPS, especially once you factor in duelist spirit into the mix. (Of course, Daggers always give great DPS, thus the "most weapons". Remember folks, Daggers rox your soxs if your fully buffed/danced/songed)
otherwise the damage is too comparable to decide :/ and who cares about pve.
just one question: why tell people "Daggers rox your sox" cause i dont see the Glad skills being useable with a dagger, and i cant imagine someone boxing a PP BD SWS and simply spamming /attack.
also, what weapon and SA's did you use in order to do your calculations?
what exact buff combinations did you use to determine max damage output per swing ?
did you make any calculations for Efficiency with 1hs/1hb/2hS/2hb?
do you have any evidence that Force skills would deter the DPS in either of the 5 cases ?
cause i see a lot of Glads crying about A S and S80 SA types. no 25% Health above A, no Focus duals above B etc etc.
cause i bet a tiiiiiiiiny little bet that pve speaking, 2hand sword with Haste would make a WONDERFUL sonic AOE DD for a group in such places as Ancient battleground, where with duals you'd have a bit of a harder time.
remember kids: Sonic skills and Force skills (the tyrant skills) do better damage with Patk buffs and more charges.
And in PvE frankly. Remember, Duelist Spirit isnt *JUST* added force attack damage, its also attack speed. Which only works with duals btw...
otherwise the damage is too comparable to decide :/ and who cares about pve.
Incorrect. But you know about L2Calc, do it yourself and see :P
just one question: why tell people "Daggers rox your sox" cause i dont see the Glad skills being useable with a dagger, and i cant imagine someone boxing a PP BD SWS and simply spamming /attack.
To point out that there ARE other weapons better. Pole, Daggers, etc. Certain weapons "break" the game in one way or another. Daggers just happen to do it when fully stacked. (Dagger DPS will beat out **** near any weapon with full buffs/songs/dances. Check it yourself)
also, what weapon and SA's did you use in order to do your calculations?
I said that already.. +4 Kesh*Kesh (Low A) and +4 Infernal Master Focus (Low A). Please read or dont comment at all ok?
Keep in mind that a +4 Kesh*Kesh is far cheaper then a +4 Infernal w/Focus, but I didnt factor that in. (+4 Infernal w/o Focus is about the same cost, but you can get a +5-6 Kesh*Kesh for price of +4 Infernal w/Focus)
what exact buff combinations did you use to determine max damage output per swing ?
did you make any calculations for Efficiency with 1hs/1hb/2hS/2hb?
I said that already. The first numbers were purely unbuffed totally, except for Duelist Spirit, which the Glad should always have on. The second numbers I said as well, full buffs (68 WC, since you woudnt use a 78 WC if your char isnt that high), with Songs/Dances (Which of course means Hunter+Fury+Fire).
Its also not MAX damage per swing, its sustained DPS. Meaning factoring in misses, critical hits, etc... total "sustained" DPS on a target. L2 Calc already applies efficiency numbers based on accuracy of the weapon and your general accuracy.
do you have any evidence that Force skills would deter the DPS in either of the 5 cases ?
Force Skills would still benefit more from Duelist Spirit in PvP if you decide that. In PvE, what would have higher p.atk? +4 Kesh*Kesh or +4 Infernal Master? Take a guess...... did you guess the same? Correct.
cause i see a lot of Glads crying about A S and S80 SA types. no 25% Health above A, no Focus duals above B etc etc.
You see alot of crying about what? .... S has Health, duh? Tal*DLE is actually one of the best dual sets period. Icarus also has Focus.
You should have just said "A" grade and stopped there, and not mentioned S or S80 since it makes you look stupid :(
cause i bet a tiiiiiiiiny little bet that pve speaking, 2hand sword with Haste would make a WONDERFUL sonic AOE DD for a group in such places as Ancient battleground, where with duals you'd have a bit of a harder time.
Why would a 2H sword with Haste make a better addition then a Kesh*Kesh with the EXACT SAME P.ATK? In fact, the Kesh*Kesh is FASTER. (Base attack speed WITHOUT Duelist Spirit: 378 Infernal Master w/ Haste, 386 Kesh*Kesh w/ Haste) Add on Duelist Spirit and its not even a freaking contest...416 for Kesh*Kesh w/ DS1... 432 w/ DS2.
So, after level 64 it looks as if there is an arguement for duals over blunt. I guess from whats been said its much of a muchness before 64. At least that means you wouldnt need duals before A grade - if it works out like that.
IMHO, Duals are the way to go, as soon as Double Sonic Slash becomes available. My reasoning goes like this:
2H Blunts have patk and speed comparable to duals, all the way down the line. The difference lies in the skills you can use with them. Hammer Crush is fun, yes, but it's pretty useless from a PVE standpoint - You won't xp faster because of it. Fatal Strike is also a decent skill, but it's no TSS. You WILL xp faster with duals, all things being equal - I hate to beat a dead horse, but Duelist Spirit increases dps pretty significantly. And at 52, you'll find that an oe'd set of crit duals is very easy to come by. You won't even need another weapon, in my opinion, until S grade. So duals end up being extremely affordable, until you blow up your first couple of attempts to +4 your S duals - argh.
Anyway...to pvp. Blunts can be pretty nasty in a fight, and that's important in L2, because, well, it's L2. You WILL be in several fights, it's a given. The rub is that in order to make your Hammer Crush land regularly, You'll need high CON. Dwarves already have high CON, and tanks use tats to get it. but you really don't have either option, unless you want to give up a lot of your DPS. Without your DPS, your grinding will be, well, slow. And by slow, I mean REALLY slow. So you can either set up your toon for +STR and +DEX, and be stomped by other players, or +CON, and level like a solo Paladin. OR, you can be a viable toon for both pve and pvp, with duals, and not have to completely change your tats or armor every time your clan gets into a tiff with someone.
I've tried both, and I just can't bring myself to recommend blunts - although I would dearly love to. Heck, I've also tried DC and NM light, and even NM heavy, but I can't in good conscience recommend any light armor but Plated Leather. And once you hit 52, you won't even want that.
It's all about balancing DPS and survivability, IMO, and duals give you the best shot at both.
Oh yeah - and 2H swords? Puh-lease.
On one hand, you can have a 2H sword with focus. Your skill of choice would be Fatal Strike. Okay.
On the other, you can have Focus duals. Your skill of choice would be TSS, or DSS, or Blaster. You will also get to use - you guessed it - Duelist Spirit. Your crits, admittedly, will be half as nasty, but you'll crit twice as often - a total wash. Again, duals win.
Hope this helps -
And you can spam TSS and DSS with duals but you will run out of MP. so it's not big deal that you can't use it with blunts. It's nice stun mobs to stop they DPS temporally.
using a blunt or sword with Blaster is Fine just get a blunt wit haste or sword with focus. However no stun with sword so blunt is better till 64.
When you get Duel spirit at 64 then I have 2 agree with everyone saying duals.
You can still pvp good without Duel spirit using a blunt.
Using a Blunt after you get Duel spirit for PVE is crazy thou. Why NC made a class that can go 2 different ways and not set up the skills so that they work with Blunts is crazy.
TSS, and DSS is fine for duals and I can understand that.
Blunts have fatal strike and Stun however they should have something = 2 Duel spirit. :D
Your points are well taken, and valid. Blunts work just fine, and 2-handed swords work just fine, if you feel so inclined.
I was probably a BIT verbose in my last post, but I feel the need to clarify a bit.
Depending on your setup(esp. tats and armor), blunts are great for PvE, or for PvP - but not for both at the same time.
2H swords are an all together different beast - There are absolutely NO advantages to them, versus duals, and you give up TSS, DSS and Duelist Spirit. In return, you get Fatal Strike. Bad trade.
All things being equal, you're more dangerous to mobs, and more dangerous to other players, using duals. Of course, having a blunt around is nice, if you can afford it, but, for my money, you'll have an easier time hunting with your duals, and hanging on to a blunt for the occasional long PvP bout.
lol no they were smarter then that I just got lucky with a few long lasting stuns. You can't really TSS when stun.
No trust me with a blunt she was hard....
1. you got the element of surprise, since Glads usualy never do anything but duals, no-one knows what class you are at first (did not work agains't me cause well... i knew what she was at the start and knew what skills she could use)
2. you can stun ouch(it sucks)
3. you can still do blaster(one of the most hard hitting skills that iiisss ranged) (it sucks worse than stun, ow)
4. its unique (finally a change) +ashley likes unique things like b4 ct1 when everyone had dragons and ashley was the only one running around with a wolf and had the highest level wolf till ct1 came out and everyone and their mother got a wolf and super extreme powerleveled the things.
Sorry Ashley, but a majority of those people you fought had absolutely *zero* knowledge of how to play their class properly.
I dont think a majority even have a 3rd CC character.
I know I fought Ashely once and had absolutely no problem, even with only +13 Health Duals. Its just not even a comparison, sorry :/
only +13 health duals???
well on live, her glad is not hard to kill at all due to the fact that she has ---con and light armor, I could kill her w/o trying. If she were to up that con and wore heavy and had the setup she had on PTS, she'd be alot harder. Yes I know that 90% of the people doing OLY had no clue what they were doing and it greatly showed, but when I went up agains't ashley, she did pretty good but was still at a lost.