I would like to hear the thoughts from fellow Prophets/Hierophants and if possible NCSoft on my thoughts below.
Let me first state I really love my class !
But ....
I have been playing since open beta with a break here and there. Like alot of classes we had our moments that we "shined" ingame. But through time I am sad to say that I see my class as a dying class.
The reason I am posting is due to the possibility to change mains in the future, this got me thinking.
One side of me, due to the fact I love my class wishes to keep it as a main to keep enjoying the class and honor it by sticking to it. Atm I think it is I myself that enjoys the my class the most. PoF really helps me solo better and always having buffs is a nice luxury in everything I do, from PVE to fishing, questing etc.
I must admit that my main class has almost turned into a solo player.
The other side of me is slowly loosing faith in my future. Many other classes got/or are getting more and more of my skills. Due to the "XP Greed" mentalaty, most Prophets I see are slaves. I feel the majority sees the Warcryer as a better buffer then the Prophet and prefers them over the Prophet in parties.
(ie WC jumps once to COV a whole party, that will cost me almost 5 mins) I know I get asked for the really cool parties when NOTHING better is available.
The parties I DO get is thanks to my friends that ask me out of friendship or the few good folk left that don't care for optimal xp gain, but care for the fun & company.
I see my XP/SP wasted becasue skills I have enchanted are replaced by the new cool combo buffs.
SP wasted because Block WW/Shield do not longer work on the new cool combo buffs, which ofcourse most people have nowadays.
I get nothing new after lvl 79.
Mind you this is only half a rant ;), and I could go on with a couple more points of what has gone bad for my class, but above are 3 important points in my considerations.
As I understand the main change thing is a ONE time option only so I feel it has to be thought through really really good.
This is why I would wish to hear others opinions on this to help me see all aspects. (I am sure that in some way or another my view is limited to my own experiences).
Also a heads up from NCSoft would be appreaciated.
I mean like give me hope for my future as Hierophant by telling me I get party buffs or VR or maybe better DD skills so my role in parties changes or I get a cool lvl 80/81 skill or... well you got the picture ! ~hints to NCSoft~
To give you the overall I am looking at .....
My main Hierophant 79 - being nerved & slaved to death
Sub Shillen Saint 77 - being nerved & slaved to death (yeah I know but I made her in the days they still "shinend")
Sub Bounty Hunter 75 - also no love here but very fun class to play though in PVE, ofcourse never asked in the XP Greed parties.
Sub Phantom Summoner 65 - Love playing it, seems the only class I have with a future. BUT will I make it time to possibly pick her as my main? (no I do not cheat in any form for those who catch my drift).
I have already rerolled a sub 3 times, at 75,69 and 61 and really do not feel the need to do this ever again.
I love my character and do not wish to reroll to an entire new one. I also kinda like being a human.
BUT if in the future there would be a race change option like the sex change one, I SURELY would keep my Hierophant as my main in Dwarf form to be the cutest buffer main EVER ;)
Taking in consideration the points I have made above and considering my classes and thier possiblities above level 80 due to the fact subs cannot pass this level, what are your thoughts/ideas/advices in this matter ?
To NCSoft, if I do not make it to get my preferred sub at 75 by the time the event hits, will I miss the boat ?
Thanks in advance for your time and input.
<3 Easy.
PS. Please comment on the content of the text and not the grammar cause I am NOT a native english speaker/writer. Thank you.
I believe this is happening across all healers, buffers in game. Its an issue we all share by choosing the class.
Many people in this game are impatient, and want to get to the end in the quickest time possible. Live healers are preferred, I guess thats why I chose an elven elder, since I'm kind of half and half.
I have only ever had the one account, and when I'm not with my elder, pp buffs are always very welcome. Sadly, too many players to count have their second, or even their third account, helping them grind that bit easier.
To be honest, I'd keep playing your class, if you enjoy it of course. Your predicament is shared however, by the series of classes that heal and buff, ... hmm, probably the ones that buff more frequently.
I don't really believe warcryers are that great, as a group, of mixed professions each person receives identical buffs. Your strength is in you ability to choose appropriate buffs for each unique profession.
Playing the role of a buffer, I believe, requires a bit of patience, things may still change, who knows. :D
:)
I love it that you love your main class, i wish i felt the same way about mine. There are not many live playing prophets around anymore, very rare to find one inthe first place and then 2nd to find one that is good at their class.
I love to play my cardinal more than my main. My main is boring to play and useless to me. I hurried to get it to 75 so i could sub the class i wanted to play. And now that the event is coming i can finally play the char i love to play. For some people this event is a miracle to others a stupid idea. It is truely wonderful that you love your class so much, i have a lvl 50 pp sub i will enjoy lvling.
I think either this event will be made a permanent service or will be a yearly event so those who wish to partake may do so. Remember the change is permanent, you can never change again, so think about this carefully.
- What ever class you love to play the most, you should take joy in it, and make it your main.
<3 ps- your grammer and content was perfect. <3
and i agree with croathe that warcryer is not the best buffer, they are just speedy and save time. But you have the option to pick buffs specificly for each class so the party benefits from what they need specificly! i perfer pp over warcryer becuz of this reason. I hate being over buffed and when there is a live pp, that never happens.
Lvl your PS fast, it will be quite interesting class in CT2. PP doesnt get any boots in CT2 (MPVR is not really anything worth mentioning unless it will be really well designed). Change your sub to main and enjoy L2.
I do not play a buffing class, but just from the overall gameplay standpoint, I would really like to see NCsoft do something better to address this. DAoC was similarly damaged by the prominence of 2nd-account "buff bots", to the point where players demanded an alternate ruleset server that had mechanics to make buff bots much less useful.
Since, at this point, some players have (literally) invested in a buff bot, I see that as the only fair solution in L2's case. There should be an alternate ruleset server where out-of-party buffs (except for newbie guides, etc) are hampered.
Or, if you prefer the flipside, restructure the classes so that, in addition to their out-of-party buffs, they have stronger buffs limited to party members only. I think a buffing class with backup utility (ie heals, dots, whatever it might be) is a very interesting class to play, because it essentially can work like a hybrid, so even when I'm not playing one I really resent games where buffing classes are relegated to bots.
Further proof that a support class re-rolling is NOT the answer. All I can say is I told you all so. :mad:
The support classes are not broken, they have just been pushed into automation and for the people who actually REALLY enjoy playing these classes, the only options are to march on with their class or to quit.
Kudos to you Easy for sticking to your class and your guns!
My dream is to stay Hierophant (in dwarf form if possible ;) ~hints~) as main.
I am just a bit scared as the Hierophant gets no 80/81 skills atm and the Phantom Summoner does, would I be shooting myself in the foot in the long run?
(Although I am not really looking forward to look like a DE)
On the other hand one cannot predict what NCSoft will do with us in the future.
But opposite that I see the future of support classes not very optimisticly.
I love my class and that should be enough ... but ... feeling slowly rendered useless ingame hurts somewhat.
It would be really nice if NCSoft commented on thier view about the future of the support classes. I am sure they must realize what is happening to most ingame ie the slavery (boxing). And considering changes that have been/will be made is surely not thier thier favour aswell.
This makes me even go so far to wonder if they are "fasing out" (some of) the support classes.
Boxing should not have been allowed to begin with.
Let people buy as many accounts as they want but make it so that you can't log on with more than 1 client per computer. Then people who wants to dualbox would need atleast 2 computers.
It would be a start, and it's very common on unmentionable servers. Time to start learning from them.
Boxing should have been banned from the start. Boxing TOTALLY takes away from the MMO aspect of the game and in the longterm, reduces the actual playerbase. And for players to rant and mostly whine that they can't level because there are no live support classes is only an excuse used by players that don't so much enjoy playing their class, but more enjoy playing a class that will let them "pwn" and doing WHATEVER it takes for them to do so!
I find it absolutely ridiculous how players say I HAD to box because there were few/no buffers. What about any influx of new players? We may have players that WANT to play support classes, but cannot because they are mostly party dependent in regards to leveling. And because of the rampant boxing THAT NC Soft has let occur, these players NEVER have a chance at playing their class as they were supposed to be played. Then of course another sad and mindless retort comes up, box a DD to level your support class... WTF is the point of that?! Players choose to play a support class to play THAT support class, not to play another class which has a TOTALLY different playstyle in order to level a class that already has the playstyle that the player WANTS to play!
Greed is the defining factor in all of this, and it rests on the shoulders of the players because they had a choice not to box, but did it anyways, and worse, it rests on the shoulders of NC Soft because they ALLOWED it to happen in the first place.
This sort of behavior should have been locked down from the beginning. At this point in the game, it's far too late.
Noone would play prophets nowadays even if 2boxing would be forbidden. Prophet needs set of decent , not totaly sensless boosts asap. 95% of prophets play their subs and will change sub to main when the event comes. But its obvious that ncdevs are either totaly clueless about whats going on or they dont care at all. Look at CT2 update. Yes we asked for MP VR...4 chronicles ago...in CT2 MPVR will be just another useless skill like spell turning. Tons of suggestions have been made, none of them seems to be considered, maybe after another next 4 updates when they will be out of context and useless again.
Well. Imo it's not too late. Just make it happen.
I'm sure support classes will be alot more welcome just about anywhere. People would actually want to play them.
It's exactly like you said Piro: It's all about greed, from both NCsoft and the players. They want to lvl up fast, alone. Just anything to get up there so they can be.. alone.
No support wants to play with people like that cause they slowly kill the classes.
I wanted to play a prophet on Luna cause I think it's an interesting class and with better single target buffs than WC for instance. Also it can solo and use all armor classes. It's very adaptable to most situations.
In a duo or small party you can use heavy armor and duals and be a light DD.
But i know that no one wants to party a PP because the dualboxing and haste pots. So meh...
People who come here from unmentionable servers expect alot more from support classes and play them very well cause they are used to them always being there as a part of every party.
It's going to a point where all supports are getting the exact same skills and they are getting bulked to save?
Which will make them even less desireable to play.
So to me it's either make all chars:
- Archers with permabuffs or pots for every buff
- Or disable multi clienting on same computer.
Making 2boxing against rules at this moement would kill L2.
You will not change the fact that ppl want to pwn and want to lvl fast.
You will not change that especialy PP is so boring for 99.99% ppl so ppl will not start to play them.
So ppl will either cheat against the rule or quit.
You have to make the class fun to play AND needed in various activities (mass pvp, sieges, epic raids, high end pve, etc)..
And PP is decent at lowlvls where its heals/buffs/dmg is comparable or better (buffs) than other classes. But in highend content its simply useless for most L2 activities. Yes, I can take heavy, melee waeapon , selfbuffs and go kill a mob, wahts the point when any other class with gsap can do the same and its much slower and much more expansive than anything else.
I do not believe that the sitiuation as is can be fixed, in the sense that alot has to do with the players mentality.
Also I may add that things as I client per computer and such will not work, workarounds will be found again due to the mentality thing.
In the worst case (many will know what I speak of) this "smart program" I am sure is used/will be used also as THE workaround.
I am affraid we must agree most of the blame has to go to the player mentality, this is the key to the success of boxing and the use of the "smart program".
Now I DO wish to point out I do not want to sound like some doomsday voice.
Again I love my class and enjoy playing it, but I also must state again my main class feels like becomming more and more a solo player in that sense. My skills benefit myself the best.
I do get parties but those are ones I get with playing with the few good people left that actually enjoy playing and hanging out with friends. And I think those are the best parties to have.
But for the higher content of the game which one falls into getting higher lvl even soloing gets harder as pointed out in an earlier reply.
My suggestion would be to balance us out more.
Prophet were ment to be THE buffers ingame.(well at the start atleast).
I would not mind getting some party buffs (along with the individual ones). So we can still be specialists in buffing.
(the Single buff advantage we have I am affraid we are loosing as soon as the new dance/song bars are added and do not forget the new combo buffs)
Also I wouldn't mind getting the regular VR in my package to compete with the Warcryers. If they are not overpowered having VR, then we are not either.
What about the single summon friend?
I mean make us the single buff version of the warcryer maybe? (Although my Prophet ego would like the warcryer to be spin offs of us and not the other way around ;) )
If it is not going to happen to keep us the buff specialists, which I am scared is more the case because more and more other classes already have/and will get buffs/party buffs, then I think it will be fair to balance us out in the sense we get some better DD skills in whatever form so our role truely changes but we will be in balance with those other classes that get our skills.
I guess I think in the end all I want is to feel my class has a future pre&post lvl 79 !!
Another point is ... shouldnt Hierophants become "the mage killer" a few chronicles ago? ... well, dunno if any PP ever killed a mage in open/siege but i dont ^^. (but im still missing the 2 ubar 79skills, maybe then ...)
Its not about player mentality. Player mentality was, is and will be the same. Its about ncsoft dev team beeing completely imcompetent in balancing L2 classes especialy few of them (PP, SE, BH...)
it's both imo as those players who want to hit 78+ as fast as possible and thus not want to share xp are as much at fault as poor design of the relation between a buf class and those being buffed..
a good way to encourage in party support would be by either increasing the buff effectiveness when pp/se/ee/wc is grouped or make it so that you can only have buffs active when the buffer is grouped period aka no more out of party support.
all we need is to have someone sent suggestions like these to Korea as their Dev team is the one that would be making the changes if any..
a good way to encourage in party support would be by either increasing the buff effectiveness when pp/se/ee/wc is grouped or make it so that you can only have buffs active when the buffer is grouped period aka no more out of party support.
With all due respect ... but don't you think those who already have thier slaves wouldn't just keep soloing with THIER OWN slaves in party instead of inviting real players ?
Possible but it will increase the chances for the class to be invited as that takes away the need to box/bot the char yourself so you will only have left the people that are greedy on the share loot/adena part instead of that AND xp.
if the players attitude change towards buffers that alone would make the class more fun to play in itself..
I know a se who really loves her class, got it with help of friends close to 80 and is part of a big & very active alliance but even there when lfg people tend to rather have an oop se then grouping her.. my suggested change would help her a lot as it would make her class needed IN party instead of only OUT
To me, people seem to be blurring two points that I would like to separate.
First, there is a legitimate game mechanics problem: there is little or not reason to have a prophet in your group (from the min/max point of view). You can get the vast majority of their benefit without having them in your party.
That is a failure of game design and that is the part that needs to be fixed.
Second, there is the meta-game trend of players having two accounts, using a second account as a "buffbot", etc. This is not really a failure of game design, and if someone wants to subscribe twice, you cannot really say it is against the rules. Some people do not like this approach, but there is nothing illegitimate with it. They want to make sure they have those buffs at all times. And, for whatever reason, the gameplay of that buffing class is not interesting enough to get enough players playing it.
So, longterm, the class needs to be given a gameplay function beyond buffing. Backup healer would seem fine except that their mana bar is all but exhausted from a rounding of buffing anyway.
Short-term, NCsoft *should* address the design flaw of allowing all of a class' benefit to be achieved without having them in the party. I do suggest a compromise solution, where outside buffs continue to be allowed, but either at a reduced effectiveness, or compared with a stronger effectiveness when the buffer is in party. Maybe just give the buffer some passive auras or something (without stepping on swordswinger / bladedancer toes..)
1st cent: For the love of god stop attacking the "mentality" of people who use 2box toons. That is unfair. The mentality that leads to a solo DD 2boxing a buffer is the _EXACT SAME_ mentality that leads to a buffer using a pet to DD. Some people just like to solo when they can't be with a group. It's not cheating.
2nd Cent: Every coin has 2 sides. I have a main Bishop and a 2box destro myself. It is a lot harder than everyone thinks to lvl 2 toons at once, even with two computers. For any good XP both toons have to be fairly active during PVE, so it is not so much like a tag-along robot and more like playing two mains at once. I find it really fun to challenge myself to get the best xp in areas that force me to use both the destro and bish to full capacity. It REALLY distracts you from the grind and I might even call it fun. ;)
1st cent: For the love of god stop attacking the "mentality" of people who use 2box toons. That is unfair. The mentality that leads to a solo DD 2boxing a buffer is the _EXACT SAME_ mentality that leads to a buffer using a pet to DD. Some people just like to solo when they can't be with a group. It's not cheating.
The difference, however, is I've yet to meet a buffer who was PLed by an oop pet that was 40-60 lvls higher than the buffer. With practically every single person I've met who has a boxed buffer, the buffer is b-grade or better and buffs oop from lvl 1 to the buffers lvl or above.
I understand what you're saying and if both your toons are the same lvl then, really, who cares. The way I see it is if you honestly can't find a group then go ahead, use another account. But, serisouly, if you, while using your 2nd account, see someone shouting lfg for 2 hours then invite the person, don't be mean.
In all fairness there are many reasons for what you just said above.
For example if your main is A+ before you decide you need a 2box to solo, you can't keep the 2box in party until it gets fairly close in lvl to the main or you get no XP. That can take months if you don't stop lvling your main. ;)
I think there are bad 2boxers and good 2boxers. There are the obvious AF "ditz" toons, and the people who play a 2box in the same way as a main. Like anything else in L2 it is easy to spot a ditz, but a real good 2boxer looks like 2 active players.
But yeah.. if the only point of making a 2box is to exclude live players that is rude, and probably a dumb idea in the end. If you aren't playing it as a main you won't be ready for an emergency situation. Nothing as silly as a dead tank with a dead healer right behind. :p