This would be my second month in a row but i don't know if i have it in me to do a 3rd. I feel i'm not progressing and i have to take breaks much more often now. I can't seem to get enough money to buy a bw helm and i don't want to ebay.
How about i roll an alt? I have some gear i could lend it and i could put a lil money on it too. I have a 57 glad, a 46 spoiler and a 35ish kamael. What class should i try?
Pick any low melee class--give it top ng weapon and whatever castoff pieces of ng armor you have.
Get in position to buy lowbie seeds that spoil a good mat (on my server it's red coda for varnish). At lvl 10, though I think the seed says 8-13 or some such, I can quickly farm a couple hundred fruits. With varnish selling out fast at 1500 each it's a nice little return above the hunting and gear costs.
This presumes on your server that you can get the seeds and turn them in for reward 1.
If this is possible it's a good source of income at low levels.
It's worth a try--you're planning on rolling a couple low toons anyway.
Heck, start a dwarf. The abandoned coal mines are one of the best places to do this--right in the first room. Or start whatever melee you like and use free newbie travel tokens at newbie helper to go to dwarfland for free so you can get into ACM.
Good luck.
This would be my second month in a row but i don't know if i have it in me to do a 3rd. I feel i'm not progressing and i have to take breaks much more often now. I can't seem to get enough money to buy a bw helm and i don't want to ebay.
This is exactly what Ive been preaching about for months. The uber rush to get high lvl and NOT taking the time to EARN what you need to get that better gear.
Roll a dwarf spoiler, learn what it means to lvl SLOWLY. Take a few months to LEGIT earn what it will take for you to get the good gear for your, two month old, high lvl toon.
This game is not WoW. It is a time intensive grind whether for lvl or adena. If you came into L2 looking to have that uberleet toon by now, this is definitely not the game for you. L2 is an investment in gaming. Many of us have played for years to get where we want to be lvl and adena wise.
So, if my choice is to take advice from someone playing 3 years who is 54, or someone who's been playing 3 months and is 76......hmmm....which one knows what they are talking about?
I'll go with the 56 player--particularly when the topic question is from a lowbie.
There's no wisdom inferred when you reach your first subclass opportunity.
Mela is a VERY well respected player on our server and has been assisting others without fail.
She was one of the first to welcome me to the server and she patiently answered a number of my stupid questions.
lvl up a wolf to 55 and sell it for 150 mil. Simple as that. Or go spoil, farm AA, ask big clans for help, craft it yourself, manor, over enchant weapons, buy and sell on the market.... Take yer pick, they all work.
If he has a problem getting 10 mill for BW helmet then I don't think over enchant weapons is a good idea he could end up even more poor.
Level your BH when you get to 55+ you will be shock on how much you make on spoils. just farm area that have herbs.
O and I have a Lot of alts from 55 to 77 and been playing 4 years non stop, no breaks longer then week (even with the Week breaks I log in from my Hotel to at least say hi). Think I should past any of Matsumoto required stats for giving advice. :p
This would be my second month in a row but i don't know if i have it in me to do a 3rd. I feel i'm not progressing and i have to take breaks much more often now. I can't seem to get enough money to buy a bw helm and i don't want to ebay.
Truth is Feline you really don't understand this game yet. Are you part of a clan? Is the clan in an alliance? Are they working to help you? Are you working to help them?
When I was a clan leader I used to kill myself to make shots and sell them so I could Purchase C grade armor for my clan mates when they hit 40. Back then it was hard to make it to 40 then it is now.
I would find money quests and grind them until I was bleary eyed and then I would repeat them. As I was a nuker I didn't use blessed shot and 3 shot everything until lvl 40 thus saving myself a bit of money as I made a small profit each adena drop.
There are two parts of this game. The money part and the "character" part.
It's time you started playing the money part for a small bit. dedicate 2 weeks of playing just making money. Maybe forgo the Blue Wolf for a while.
On my sub I didn't change to B grade and only recently put him in B grade. And I have money.
You don't have to get your grade armor or robes as soon as you hit. Some can but others don't.
Heck, I didn't get A grade until 6 or 7 levels into it. I didn't get S grade until a few levels in.
And I'm going to be a bit harsh on you now, you made a similar complaint on another forum a while ago:
I have about 2k unsold charcoal. I'm told it's not the best going mat and that i should farm better ones. I spent the whole day putting efforts into this only to be told what? farm more...
Right now i'm still deciding weather to go back to wow and start a new toon on a different server maybe. Or sticking with this looser's game because my clan helped me a lot getting decent gear.
I'm afraid it's hard for me to listen to people complain.. then complain again. Could be my age but I come from a generation who basically worked for what we wanted.
So stop it. Put your nose to the grindstone and start being serious. As you came from WoW you are used to a different type of game, one that is very easy on casual players.
You can't approach this game the same way. And keep in mind it's SO much easier now then it used to be.
This would be my second month in a row but i don't know if i have it in me to do a 3rd. I feel i'm not progressing and i have to take breaks much more often now. I can't seem to get enough money to buy a bw helm and i don't want to ebay.
This is exactly what Ive been preaching about for months. The uber rush to get high lvl and NOT taking the time to EARN what you need to get that better gear.
Roll a dwarf spoiler, learn what it means to lvl SLOWLY. Take a few months to LEGIT earn what it will take for you to get the good gear for your, two month old, high lvl toon.
This game is not WoW. It is a time intensive grind whether for lvl or adena. If you came into L2 looking to have that uberleet toon by now, this is definitely not the game for you. L2 is an investment in gaming. Many of us have played for years to get where we want to be lvl and adena wise.
Or rush your level and spoil EWS in AOE parties at FOG.
*whistles innocently*
on bartz there are no doom helmets below 10 mil, most selling at 12+. there are no clean B grade weapons. and almost no rec's for top B weapon.
I don't see anyone selling BW helms, and if they do its like 12-15m for one.
so I know how you feel. I'm awaiting ct2.1 cause we can actually get decent items.
I hate to sound like an old timer, but as someone who played during Preludes and C1, I kind of sigh at this statement. When the game was new, it would have been absurd to think that a B-grade item would ever be found for sale. They were simply too precious.
Groups of friends had to band together in order to try to .. MAKE .. one. The ones who did this best became the strongest clans in the wars that determined control of each server. If someone had complained about not being able to pick one up for a cheap price on the market, we would have told them that they were playing the wrong game, frankly.
I know things change. But I'm about to spend 5-7 million on crystals for my first C-grade weapon. I started a new account, I bought no adena, I don't bot.. starting from scratch but with some help from nice ppl I have met, I'll be able to do that before I hit 40. So 12 million for a piece of B-grade gear that comes later and is in high demand really doesn't strike me as so egregious.
To the original poster, I just suggest you stop and smell the roses. If you are coming from another mmo, you are probably used to being able to sit down, bang out a few levels a night, and hit max within a month. For most players it just isn't meant to be that way in L2. I find that they have added enough quests and side activities that I can make micro-goals for myself and not care too much about my level. Tonight, for example, I want to start a quest chain for level 35+ that starts in the Dion church and looked interesting to me. I also want to fish a little bit. I think I'm ready to sell my Salamander suit. I'm thinking about all these things and not really thinking about whether I'll hit 38 or not.
So, for me, just focusing on these other goals and not my level bar makes the game very relaxing for me. I actually like that the xp pace is slower because I like to soak in all the content along the way.
I hate to sound like an old timer, but as someone who played during Preludes and C1, I kind of sigh at this statement. When the game was new, it would have been absurd to think that a B-grade item would ever be found for sale. They were simply too precious.
As someone else who has been around since the start...I take issue with this. It's a copout. The problem with most B grade stuff, is how difficult it is to get the parts/rec.
By the games own 'value' a B grade helmet is 'supposed' to be 927,000a for low B and 1,449,000 for high B. This is the value the game uses for crystalizing and selling/buying to NPC's.
And yet the recs/parts are so rare, that not only do the helmets average 400% to 1,000% higher in cost, but they usually go for MORE than what the body armor does despite using a fraction of the materials in crafting.
The same goes for pretty much every other grade as well. In C grade and lower, it's not a critical issue as you can NPC buy just about anything you *really* need to get to the next grade. (excluding shots...) But in B grade and higher, where it's all crafting, the poor distribution of drops/spoils is what drives those items sky-high. It's worse on NA servers as the population is fairly concentrated at higher levels where those items no longer drop. (So you can hardly get enough parts to craft 'junk for cheap crystals'.)
And instead of 'balancing' the drop/spoils....the devs take the easy way out and just dump stuff into the NPC stores/lux shop...which is a huge slam against dwarves, both crafters and spoilers. Why ever make a crafter or even sub a spoiler, if you can buy it from stores or raid for more than you could ever craft? (And cheaper to boot!)
Well, I'm glad you put "supposed" in quotes, because clearly the NPC price in no way represents a reasonable expectation of what the item will actually cost. Rather, NPC pricing and crystalization simply serves to set floors.
What the item "should" cost is completely up to the players.
Unless they have DECREASED drop rates dramatically since I last played, I don't think the difficulty of getting b-grade could possibly be harder now than it was then. Especially considering that items have an infinite lifespan, once created, I suspect it is far easier to do it now than it was then.
I can see a case being made that, given the level cap increases, the useful life of B-grade is now considerable shorter, and therefore the effort to acquire it may no longer be worthwhile. But I can't speak to that without getting there and understand how difficult it is to get, when compared to the grades above it.
You like giving advice don't you? Do ppl usually thank you for that?
What your post told me is you live in your head, where everything makes sense. The outside world is scary because it doesn't always work the way you want to.
You like giving advice don't you? Do ppl usually thank you for that?
What your post told me is you live in your head, where everything makes sense. The outside world is scary because it doesn't always work the way you want to.
L2PplSkill
Then dont take the advice, problem solved. But one must then ask "why did you post"? Just to hear yourself talk? I don't think so.
Seems to me you are looking for some guidance. However when you post the same thing here and elsewhere then what are you really getting at?
I'm sorry but your disliking my advice doesn't mean that it isn't correct. It also might not be for you but have you tried it? I'm sure everyone here has fought with the money issues and in times when it was harder to make money.
There are two games going on in L2. For some reason you don't seem to want to accept that and yet you are having problems with a very important aspect of the game.
Seems to me that you are going around in circles, no? Why don't you change your paradigm and try some of he advice given here and elswhere. Otherwise what else do you need? We can't change the game. It is what it is.
You can always do what the bots do... Kill yourself on the npcs in town repeatedly and delevel. Then go out and farm more. Rinse and repeat until you have the adena to afford your gear and level up again. ;)
You can always do what the bots do... Kill yourself on the npcs in town repeatedly and delevel. Then go out and farm more. Rinse and repeat until you have the adena to afford your gear and level up again. ;)
This is actually a brilliant idea depending upon the server and what opportunity you have.
I've been making a good amount of adena on a toon lvl 10-13 on my server by manoring the lowest seeds for a mat that is selling well--in an area evidently not being seeded as much.
Last night I made (and turned in before the clock reset!!!!) 175,500 worth of a base mat---in 22 minutes. Remember my soulshots were free at these levels!
Around 1/2 million adena per hour--on a level 10 toon with crappy, cheap gear.
Tonight he was at lvl 13 so he committed suicide till he was back to lvl 11. You bet I'm going to kill him over and over--and keep piling up the adena from the manor while I can.
I chose these seeds and this toon and this area because I researched a bit and saw what mat was selling and at what level I would have the LEAST competition--and in which region.
ANYONE can do what I did--and in fact, can do better than that. I didn't even pick the top selling seed/mat on my server because that one would have been a few levels higher.
Even a lowbie can make over 500,000 an hour if they do their homework.
Well, I'm glad you put "supposed" in quotes, because clearly the NPC price in no way represents a reasonable expectation of what the item will actually cost. Rather, NPC pricing and crystalization simply serves to set floors.
What the item "should" cost is completely up to the players.
Unless they have DECREASED drop rates dramatically since I last played, I don't think the difficulty of getting b-grade could possibly be harder now than it was then. Especially considering that items have an infinite lifespan, once created, I suspect it is far easier to do it now than it was then.
I can see a case being made that, given the level cap increases, the useful life of B-grade is now considerable shorter, and therefore the effort to acquire it may no longer be worthwhile. But I can't speak to that without getting there and understand how difficult it is to get, when compared to the grades above it.
And hence lies the 'problem'. NPC Value sets a floor, when it should instead be setting a 'ceiling'. (As a way to moderate inflation as much as it does deflation.)
In L2, parts/items are supply and adena is part of the 'demand'. (Your character level and current gear is the other half of 'demand', as well as your desire to enchant/enhance.) Unfortunately, the devs have repeatedly nerfed the supply (of non-NPC items) while simultaneously increasing the demand. (Additonal adena/material sinks
And yes, they HAVE decreased rates on many items. A grade helmet recipes were noticably decreased, as well as life stone drops. (Two most noticable effects from my perspective.) I'm sure they nerfed other things as well, but since rates/distribution are so ludicrously hidden from the player, it's difficult to put a number to everything...unless you break the EULA of course...)
I noticed the stock of low level seeds is plentiful and cheap also. Not actually killing myself to stay in range but i'm defenitly paying for my ss.
I'm having fun again btw, problem solved. Not sure if i'll play my main again or why i would, but that's not an issue for the moment. I'm making money (if the stuff sells) and while i won't be able to afford plated leather, i feel i'm progressing and that's what counts.
And hence lies the 'problem'. NPC Value sets a floor, when it should instead be setting a 'ceiling'. (As a way to moderate inflation as much as it does deflation.)
Then you do not understand the way supply and demand work. If you tried to set a price ceiling with NPC's, the result would be even more scarcity then you have now. Same thing that happens when rent controls are put in place - it doesn't put more people in homes, it just means that only the lucky few are able to get one.
The only solution to the problem that you perceive would be to increase drop rates (which I believe you also advocate).
But I'm not so sure there is actually a problem - as I said, if 6 or 7 million is the *floor* for a middle-of-the-road c-grade weapon (I'm making it using crystals, so it's tied to NPC pricing), then 12 million for a rare, high demand b-grade helmet does not strike me as high at all.
Remember that everything is relative. When things sell at high prices, it doesn't only hurt me, it also helps me, because I can sell as well as buy. If the adena were worth more, true I would pay less for gear, but I would also receive less for selling my mats or wolf collars or scrolls or what-not. So it wouldn't necessarily be any different for me, in the end.
Seems to me that you are going around in circles, no? Why don't you change your paradigm and try some of he advice given here and elswhere.
@Sovrath
I'm not going to play your game. You're baiting me into flaming responses so i get in trouble.
I don't want you to get in trouble Feline. I think you have the wrong of it. But I sincerely wish you nothing but good luck and perhaps a bit of clarity to help you. You may feel free to look over my vast (sigh) posting history. I think you will find very little in it to point to a person who is trying to get another in trouble.
Seems to me that you are going around in circles, no? Why don't you change your paradigm and try some of he advice given here and elswhere.
@Sovrath
I'm not going to play your game. You're baiting me into flaming responses so i get in trouble.
I don't want you to get in trouble Feline. I think you have the wrong of it. But I sincerely wish you nothing but good luck and perhaps a bit of clarity to help you. You may feel free to look over my vast (sigh) posting history. I think you will find very little in it to point to a person who is trying to get another in trouble.
Good Luck. ;)
Sov is right. You seem to only want to cry and whine about how bad things are for you, yet you do not seem to want to take ANY advise posted here. Several of us long time players have given you VERY good advise about what you should be doing and all I see is you thinking we are pulling your leg.
I am one for helping people out when they need it. For you....Im done.
Seems to me that you are going around in circles, no? Why don't you change your paradigm and try some of he advice given here and elswhere.
@Sovrath
I'm not going to play your game. You're baiting me into flaming responses so i get in trouble.
I don't want you to get in trouble Feline. I think you have the wrong of it. But I sincerely wish you nothing but good luck and perhaps a bit of clarity to help you. You may feel free to look over my vast (sigh) posting history. I think you will find very little in it to point to a person who is trying to get another in trouble.
Then you do not understand the way supply and demand work. If you tried to set a price ceiling with NPC's, the result would be even more scarcity then you have now. Same thing that happens when rent controls are put in place - it doesn't put more people in homes, it just means that only the lucky few are able to get one.
The only solution to the problem that you perceive would be to increase drop rates (which I believe you also advocate).
But I'm not so sure there is actually a problem - as I said, if 6 or 7 million is the *floor* for a middle-of-the-road c-grade weapon (I'm making it using crystals, so it's tied to NPC pricing), then 12 million for a rare, high demand b-grade helmet does not strike me as high at all.
Remember that everything is relative. When things sell at high prices, it doesn't only hurt me, it also helps me, because I can sell as well as buy. If the adena were worth more, true I would pay less for gear, but I would also receive less for selling my mats or wolf collars or scrolls or what-not. So it wouldn't necessarily be any different for me, in the end.
I'm well aware of how supply and demand work. I'm also painfully aware how illogical people are when it comes to money. It's why we have terms such as 'inflationary bubble' or 'pyramid scheme'. It's also why so many people advocate 'playing the market', then don't understand why everyone one can't just 'do the same'. (Or why 'everyone doing it, is bad for the market overall.)
Your 'rent control' is a poor example for this. As a 'housing market' shares very little in common with a durable/consumer goods market. (It would be closer to the situation with clan halls than that of the market for gear.)
And yes I do advocate raising rates. Although I am far more interested in rebalancing the *distribution* of drops and spoils than purely raising the rates of the ones we have now. There are far too few sources for many necessary items given the static (and level depenedant) drop/spoil tables we have now.
And it is indeed a very serious problem. Although not necessarily for purely 'in-game' reasons, as this IS a game and people are paying to play it. If they feel that there is NO reward for doing so, they are going to quit. And being able to aquire gear relative to their character levels as well as the mobs they fight at those levels in a reasonable amount of time is part of that. Being forced to use sub-par equipment in L2 is a big part of the reason people either cheat or quit. Unlike other games where gear can be 'good or bad', L2 gear basically is generic stuff that matches the mob stats you will be fighting at the levels you can wear the gear or were 'intended' to get it at. (As opposed to Overenchanted gear or boss jewelry.)
So if people can't aquire the gear they *need* to continue just 'playing the game' they are understandably going to be unhappy. (And this is bad if you are said maker/seller of the game.
And for pricing that gear, where there is a NPC that sells it, it's nigh impossible to 'over price'....but it's equally hard to under-price! As just the key parts/recipes alone are far too uncommon to allow anything other than the embarrisingly over used jewelry bits to meet the market demand. Once you go past the NPC stuff, in B grade, due to said lack of crafting items, things rocket sky high where the price of items doesn't so much react to demand, as it does to the low supply.
Interestingly enough, prices in A grade are more 'reasonable' than in B grade. But this is more due to a greater supply than any lower demand, as the devs added far more quests for parts/recs in that grade than below it. Although they have nerfed rates on some very crucial items the last update or so. Hence why some things are going sky high in price again. (A helms and such.)
And just because you are personally able to 'deal' with a inflated market doesn't mean everyone else has the in-game time to do so...remember, this is a GAME. If it doesn't supply the necessary entertainment (instead of a third job) it's going to get dropped. AKA, the rich get richer...and the poor just quit to go play something else.
I don't get the whole hate thing. Some nobody starts giving me crap about some thread i started like a week ago and telling me i should change the way i think. I tell him i'm not interested and now ppl are killing me now.
I don't get the whole hate thing. Some nobody starts giving me crap about some thread i started like a week ago and telling me i should change the way i think. I tell him i'm not interested and now ppl are killing me now.
No one is saying you have to change the way you think. But if you are having troubles with money then perhaps you can look into aspects of the game that might be of help.
There is no hate, but frustration at the fact that you seem to be a new player looking for help but you don't want to hear what more experienced players have to say.
Not to say that "one size fits all" but there are some recurring aspects of the game that cause newer players to balk, get frustrated and leave. Part of that is that they want to approach the game like other games and when this doesn't work they sometimes can't understand why.
oi oi.. yes the market sucks.. yes there is inflation. No, "playing the market" isn't the problem. Getting something low and selling high only drives up the market prices if a, someone is willing to pay it, and b, nobody else is selling cheaper. The market fluctuates up -and- down. The only thing driving it too high is artificial inflation aka buying adena. That isn't the fault of the people playing the market honestly.
My best advice, learn what consumeables you can create without a dwarf. ;) I got my B grade with goodies you can get with ancient adena and blank scrolls. :) I even had enough left over to blow a few bw tunics (which actually cost more at the time) trying to +6. BOY that was a bad idea. ^^;;
The key is to grind at home and sell afk while at work/school/whatever.
Try making the hatchling quest... I left my shop open for the night and someone paid 8kk for the wind hatchling...o_O! I know I was extremely lucky, but it doesn't hurt to try... :P
So if people can't aquire the gear they *need* to continue just 'playing the game' they are understandably going to be unhappy. (And this is bad if you are said maker/seller of the game
Yeah it is bad for the developer, if they are based in NA and sell only to NA players. L2 however, is created by a Korean company. The game was definitely not designed with your average NA player in mind. This game was made for people who don't mind spending hours farming or playing the market.
And just because you are personally able to 'deal' with a inflated market doesn't mean everyone else has the in-game time to do so...remember, this is a GAME. If it doesn't supply the necessary entertainment (instead of a third job) it's going to get dropped. AKA, the rich get richer...and the poor just quit to go play something else.
Yeah it's really too bad that NCSoft couldn't release a version for the casual players, or change the level of difficulty on some of the NA servers. Some people even went to the extreme of creating illegal private servers. Editing the game to their standards, changing drop rates and what not. Again, this game was never meant for the casual gamer. There are actually people out there that love the brutal economy of L2.
I don't get the whole hate thing. Some nobody starts giving me crap about some thread i started like a week ago and telling me i should change the way i think. I tell him i'm not interested and now ppl are killing me now.
did you even read your own thread?
there are 5 people here with actual advice that is founded in EXPERIENCE.
the rest of this thread is flames and filler.
L2Read. and not just the first 3 lines of a reply.
Honestly, no ONE solution will work for everyone. I found that I have no issues spending my saturday afternoon clicking to make shots on my laptop while watching T.V. but I lack the patience to mannor (as I always forget to get my fruit). I know people who fish, farm,craft,OE to make their incomine. You need to find something you are good at and stick with it. My income comes mainly from shots. It aint quick, but shots ALWAYS sell.
It's also why so many people advocate 'playing the market', then don't understand why everyone one can't just 'do the same'. (Or why 'everyone doing it, is bad for the market overall.)
First statement is correct. Second is false. 'Playing the market' not bad for markets. Indeed, it is essential for them. It is what makes a market function. This has to do with a concept called efficiency. Markets in Lineage 2, however, are not very efficient (in the technical sense). But this is tangent.
As a 'housing market' shares very little in common with a durable/consumer goods market.
Items in this game are beyond durable - they have an infinite life - essentially permanent.
there are far too few sources for many necessary items given the static (and level depenedant) drop/spoil tables we have now
I'll take your word for it, as you know better than I. But I do see the end-result, and the pricing doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me. (And I'm dirt poor.)
So if people can't aquire the gear they *need* to continue just 'playing the game' they are understandably going to be unhappy.
"Need" is very much relative in this case. I had a middle-of-the-road C grade weapon for a long time on my swordsinger, and still did great in groups, and acceptably otherwise.
And for pricing that gear, where there is a NPC that sells it, it's nigh impossible to 'over price'....but it's equally hard to under-price!
It's also really boring that way, makes crafters mostly moot, and takes a real element of luck/chance out of the game, which makes the grind feel heavier and more obvious.
And just because you are personally able to 'deal' with a inflated market doesn't mean everyone else has the in-game time to do so...
No, it does mean that. My point is that high prices mean high prices to buy AND high prices to sell. It is not a net-negative effect. The only time it is a burden is on an account starting from scratch (like mine), because you aren't going to be able to do much until you get a few things to sell.
If it doesn't supply the necessary entertainment (instead of a third job) it's going to get dropped.
I don't get the whole hate thing. Some nobody starts giving me crap about some thread i started like a week ago and telling me i should change the way i think. I tell him i'm not interested and now ppl are killing me now.
People are "killing" you because you respond in an arrogant and rude fashion.
I don't know Sovrath, I am not even on his server, BUT from all his posts on these fora I DO know he is serious and nice. He hardly flames or tries to start flame wars; when you ask for help Sovrath will advise you, try to "teach" you a few things about the game, "show" you the way to get where your destination lies.
And your post about L2 being a "loser's game"? That includes me since I play it. I deeply appreciate your kind words.
To the game,
I have two low level toons for using Manor and farming mats, which then I sell to the market. One of these toons is level 30 and farms outside Giran for getting Enria. When my toon levels up she attacks the guards, she dies --do that lot of times-- and then off we go again. I have also a WS to craft, sell and play the market.
My main was lvl 55 --B grade-- when he could afford to get rid of his D grade armour -- no C grade armour for him, he couldn't afford it. Again, he was level 68-69 when the crafting of a Soul bow was successful.
I am saying this game requires LOT of effort. If you are in a clan things are getting easier, but if you chose not to, then you have to do everything by yourself.
Yes, L2 might have the worse economy and surely it is horrible regarding the required time you need to advance from each level to another, especially at higher levels. Thing is you can play any way you want. But you know what? When I first started things were far worse for newbies than it is now. In comparison, this is heaven. Do you still think it's a "loser's game"? Maybe so. I have my reasons for playing L2 and not WoW. I am sure you will have your reasons too whatever you decide to do.
Seems to me that you are going around in circles, no? Why don't you change your paradigm and try some of he advice given here and elswhere.
@Sovrath
I'm not going to play your game. You're baiting me into flaming responses so i get in trouble.
Wow....
Seriously, Sovrath? Flame? Or bait someone to flame? LOL, just LOL. Doesn't happen. Ever. Sovrath is one of the most kind, helpful and PATIENT players on the forums. I honestly can't believe you even said that.
He's just suggesting that you try some of the GOOD advice offered here, rather than immediately shooting it down. Not exactly what I would call a game to bait you into flaming. LOL
And hence lies the 'problem'. NPC Value sets a floor, when it should instead be setting a 'ceiling'. (As a way to moderate inflation as much as it does deflation.)
Actually this ceiling exists for D and C grade items (few exceptions) through the NPC stores and 7 signs. And from next update, it is going to apply on B-grade items. If something is available in stores or through Mammon, none tries to craft it. Even if you have all the materials, you'll get more profit by selling everything or try to craft A-grade (on my server at least). With current crystal and AA prices there is no reason to hope that you'll get profit by crafting items available through stores or mammon. So, yes the ceiling does exist. A-grade weapon reciepes have also a ceiling (although more volatile due to supply availability) through the Magic coin's quest. Having alternate sources to get items imposes a short of a "ceiling".
Anyway, I agree with your observations, although that's not technically a ceiling. A situation exists in which so many materials are needed to craft high level items that supply has trouble keeping up. And these high level players obviously have more money than low level players do. So the materials price is essentially defined by them.
Putting it another way.. hypothetically let's say a piece of iron could be defined as 0.1% of a C-grade weapon or 0.01% of a B-grade weapon. If the B-grade costs more than 10 times as much as the C-grade, the price of iron in that case is defined by its value to the B-grade players.
So.. at the end of the day, you have a situation in which materials are worth far more than what they contribute to a low level item. Hence, crafting appears unusually expensive at the low level. This is the reason I just got my Dark Screamer by buying crystals on the cheap - I spent around 5m. The weapon would sell for around 7. And it requires materials worth 14-15m. So there is no way that crafting it is a sensible option.
Actually thats the beauty of the new changes. It's true the material market value is set by their worth to higher lvl players because the game has been around years so there are essentially more higher lvl players than new ones (especially in Korea.) That is why C and soon B grade stuff is available in shops. Yeah, it makes it lame to craft at low lvls, but on the other hand there are low lvl manor seeds and low lvl quests that grant items which are now worth a LOT more in market. So why worry about crafting your C grade if you can sell the mats and have enough to buy it in NPC shop?
Why on earth, after all the extremely helpful advice that's been given to you in this thread, would you change the subject title to something like that?
The only part of the community trying to "kill" it's people, would be people like you.
And I find the baiting and flaming comment hilariously ironic since that seems to be the very thing you've been trying to do.
L2 has one of the most amazing and helpful communities that I've ever come across in my 10 years of online gaming. How you fail to see that is beyond me.
Why on earth, after all the extremely helpful advice that's been given to you in this thread, would you change the subject title to something like that?
I haven't changed the subject title, I replied to the origional poster which gave me the origional subject title.
Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm kind of new to the forums around here so I didn't even think about the fact that it shows the name of the above poster when you make a quick reply hehe :P.
Honestly it has been bothering me and it screams "drama queen / attn [censored]". People posted all this advice and you change the title into something untrue and inflammatory.
I would find money quests and grind them until I was bleary eyed and then I would repeat them.
No one in any game they play for fun, should have to grind till their eyes bleed!
Lineage needs more fun and less bleeding eyes :mad:
Which sort of routes the worthwhile part of this thread full circle for me.
L2 absolutely must come up with a development plan--some development plan--ANY development plan.
It would AT LEAST include basic and long-overdue adjustments (that would be sensible in the minds of PLAYERS) to the drop tables. It doesn't get any more basic and fundamental in this game than that. They MUST commit time to making PLANNED CORRECTIONS in the drop tables.
Also, quest reward changes (increases), reverting RB's back (a bit) through the level 65 ones at least, significant increase in instanced sites/zones/dungeons, again--PLANNED improvements in disconnected or poorly/incompletely introduced content like the fortresses.
Enough already with random class changes, new races, tweaking of inconsequential content (a shop-mode dwarf golem????!!!!!), and the next "lvl 92 hunting island".......
I don't see the game's needs as cosmetic--there are foundational changes that have long been needed. In my mind, the absence of these SUBSTANTIVE improvements is why there is less reason to discuss the 'usual' requests like auction houses, relaxed servers, etc. It's not so much that those might or might not be good ideas--for me it's that those things are bandaid's being placed on a spurting artery.
NCSoft development appears to me (from observing content changes by chronicle) to be a random collection of minor and easy tweaks thought up by a bunch of guys sitting around a table playing "what if?" games and taking notes.
That's not planned development in order to achieve goals--that's just making [censored] up as you go.......which is exactly what L2 progession has seemed like from my perspective.
I would find money quests and grind them until I was bleary eyed and then I would repeat them.
No one in any game they play for fun, should have to grind till their eyes bleed!
Lineage needs more fun and less bleeding eyes :mad:
Which sort of routes the worthwhile part of this thread full circle for me.
L2 absolutely must come up with a development plan--some development plan--ANY development plan.
It would AT LEAST include basic and long-overdue adjustments (that would be sensible in the minds of PLAYERS) to the drop tables. It doesn't get any more basic and fundamental in this game than that. They MUST commit time to making PLANNED CORRECTIONS in the drop tables.
Also, quest reward changes (increases), reverting RB's back (a bit) through the level 65 ones at least, significant increase in instanced sites/zones/dungeons, again--PLANNED improvements in disconnected or poorly/incompletely introduced content like the fortresses.
Enough already with random class changes, new races, tweaking of inconsequential content (a shop-mode dwarf golem????!!!!!), and the next "lvl 92 hunting island".......
I don't see the game's needs as cosmetic--there are foundational changes that have long been needed. In my mind, the absence of these SUBSTANTIVE improvements is why there is less reason to discuss the 'usual' requests like auction houses, relaxed servers, etc. It's not so much that those might or might not be good ideas--for me it's that those things are bandaid's being placed on a spurting artery.
NCSoft development appears to me (from observing content changes by chronicle) to be a random collection of minor and easy tweaks thought up by a bunch of guys sitting around a table playing "what if?" games and taking notes.
That's not planned development in order to achieve goals--that's just making [censored] up as you go.......which is exactly what L2 progession has seemed like from my perspective.
That's a bit true, they don't develop really from a plan but it's my understanding that it's a bit like Saturday Night Live. They have people who are working on things and then they present them to the head dev (or whoever) and if it's interesting they work it in.
This is unfortunate because the game is just a mess. it's all over the place.
The thing is, for me, I like the long long journy to the top.
What I don't like is that there are very few things to do (seemingly) that I feel that I'm being herded to content (I'm not doing anymore L2 quests, that is over for me, so Hellbound is off limits to me - the dev's can't write quests and they make me want to quit).
I don't like how fortesses were implemented. I thought they were going to add more of the type of pvp that I enjoy but instead it's us taking the forts back from dumb ai opponents. Every few days.
They need to revitalize old areas, they need to make it so people can solo BUT that grouping gives you more bang for the buck. I miss the old days when I would see people in Cruma, in TOI.
There's something wrong. The player base is a bit too spread out and with Gracia coming I fear that things are about to bust.
We make suggestions and Alyra forwards it to korea, then we never hear back what was decided.
We should give NC some credit. From Chaotic throne, a lot of things started to change for the better on some issues at least. And CT2 is going to answer so many suggestions of the past, that I can't even count. Just look at the patch notes. Sure they are late, and certainly they need to do more. But I believe we are on the right track and personaly I have hope for the future.
Honestly, no ONE solution will work for everyone. I found that I have no issues spending my saturday afternoon clicking to make shots on my laptop while watching T.V. but I lack the patience to mannor (as I always forget to get my fruit). I know people who fish, farm,craft,OE to make their incomine. You need to find something you are good at and stick with it. My income comes mainly from shots. It aint quick, but shots ALWAYS sell.
This has to be the best post in this thread - everyone has their own way of making money, find one that works for you and stick with it.
I have to say that I think you have a poorly concevied idea of what you're supposed to have if you feel that you are 'poor' in-game or somehow behind the curve.
Just becouse you don't have the absolute best gear money can buy for your grade doesn't mean you're loosing out. I've never had Super OE'd weapons or +6 armor sets and I've been playing for well over 3 years. (yeah I know I'm a noob)
I think that the people who play this game can be divided into two catagories: Those who work for what they have and those who don't. For better or worse it will always be that way. Some people will work very hard to gather every material and every recipe for all their items and some people will just whip out their credit cards and buy their gear from the chinese. I'd say its just part of the game but its realy just part of life... that's how it is.
Its insulting to me that after countless hours of grinding and plotting and scheming that I have only +4 duals when some one can just write an e-check and buy +13 S Duals... but I don't compare myself to them and that makes it better for me.
What's sad is that a LOT of people buy adena... the majority of players do I imagine... and it can be easy to feel left out or left behind if you don't have what they have.... but try instead to compare yourself to the people that earn what they have for themselves.... you'll find it to be a lot more fullfilling I hope.
Also remember the people who buy adena don't know the real value of their money.. and can't be bothered to do things like run quests, fish, use the seal system, use the manor system, spoil or craft. So take advantage of that and sell them things that can be easily attained for free. Jack up the price a bit. A legit player can get this stuff with a 5 minute quest but an ebayer will pay the cash. So you aren't really hurting the legit players and you make bank. hehe
Do you feel a person needs to play for 8 hours a day grinding away to make his ingame riches? What about us working class, that have jobs....
We shouldn't have to work all day to make a living in the real world, only to have to punch that game clock to grind for the next 8 hours to live in the pretend.
Those who work for what they have and those who don't.
"work" as I used it does not mean sacrificing play time... level a dwarf... make some shots or something... then while you sleep or while you go to your RL jobs, leave the dwarf logged in to do what it does best, then come home and enjoy.
There is a very good reason why the lineage 2 game economy works the way it does. Take advantage of it ^^
So take advantage of that and sell them things that can be easily attained for free.
Someone shouted "WTB Karmian Set" and I happened to have one on me, which I got for like 500k, so I thought what the heck, lets try: "I have a Karm, how much you offer?" And the instant reply: "4.5kk".