OPinions please.

I was looking at the elf masteries for the blade singer and I noticed that there isn't one for duals and yet most of the blade singers I see use them? I am guessing they are beteter off with one handed swords.

maybe you are referring to dark elf blade dancers?
the light elves have a sword singer class. Some sword singers use dual swords but tehy dont get any patk bonus cause tehy dont get masteries. However a sowrd singer can use any weapon. Most sword singers use 1 handed sword or blunt or a 2 handeed sword or blunt.

hope this helps :)

alot of sws use bows and just about every weapon out there with no limitation (which i think is utterly rediculious)

where as bd's are stuck.. reguardless... having to have duals at all times for them to be even remotely useful

where as bd's are stuck.. reguardless... having to have duals at all times for them to be even remotely useful

Why do you say that?

maybe you are referring to dark elf blade dancers?
the light elves have a sword singer class. Some sword singers use dual swords but tehy dont get any patk bonus cause tehy dont get masteries. However a sowrd singer can use any weapon. Most sword singers use 1 handed sword or blunt or a 2 handeed sword or blunt.

I think OP's question was whether or not you wouldn't wind up doing more damage using a one-hand sword on a Sword Singer, once you factor in the effects of the weapon mastery. When I played my SWS, I used sword and shield - altho I believe dual swords would have done somewhat more dmg, but I felt that sword + shield did nearly as much damage and with significantly better defense. I always felt my virtue to a team, especially in PvP, was what I did for their damage (which I can only do while alive - hence I favor better survivability personally).

where as bd's are stuck.. reguardless... having to have duals at all times for them to be even remotely useful

Why do you say that?



Because they need to use dual swords for their dances.

Ah, I didn't know that. Thanks.

BDs can't do anything at all, even alot of thier skills can't be used without having duals equiped..

now i know other bds and myself included would run around with duals and a bow or other weapon..

essentially just pop the duals on, dance do the skills nessary and switch back.

But this is highly ineffient and tedius. Plus it waists shots like crazy and time and you can screw up quite easily.

A sws.... hell doesn't even have to have a weapon equiped to sing.

As you can see, obviously something royally unbalanced and retarted about that..

I'm not asking for BDs to be allowed to dance without weapons or use any other weapon... no no no.

but making a SwS require that a single handed sword be REQUIRED to sing.

but making a SwS require that a single handed sword be REQUIRED to sing.

That would make me cry :confused: I like my +10 BO. I know where you're coming from though. It's a bad requirement for BDs to always have duals equipped to dance.

keep your BO.... but just keep a sword on you to sing ;)

Hate to support anything that would be perceived as a nerf or nuisance, but it makes sense from the lore standpoint - a sword saint should require his sword to perform his magic.

Hate to support anything that would be perceived as a nerf or nuisance, but it makes sense from the lore standpoint - a sword saint should require his sword to perform his magic.

I agree. I have no problems with BD's requiring the dual swords because that's what they do. Sword Singers should also have a requirement of some sort.

This really is a point toward the idea that NC Dev's are sloppy. They just can't handle details.

You know I don't feel that it is even a matter of being sloppy. You can't expect precise, perfect details and developments from game developers and doing so is unrealisitic. They have given us a game that I will be beginning to play fo rthe first time, I am just examining what good classes are melee. While it may nt be fair for them to be able to use any weapon, it is how the game is and I doubt that it is going to change.

You know I don't feel that it is even a matter of being sloppy. You can't expect precise, perfect details and developments from game developers and doing so is unrealisitic. They have given us a game that I will be beginning to play fo rthe first time, I am just examining what good classes are melee. While it may nt be fair for them to be able to use any weapon, it is how the game is and I doubt that it is going to change.

Nah, it's sloppy.

If you had been here from the start you would have seen all sorts of things that would really have been considered sloppy.

from odd messages when you clicked on npc's (like -301.4 error - or something like that) to "the effects of none have worn off" to "you just pick up freight at the city you send it" even though they changed it so that you could pick it up from anywhere.

NC devs haven't been great with the details. I can only think the swordsinger and blade dancer thing is a bit of a mistake unless someone can find a lore reason for it.

Some of those examples you gave have to do with North American NCsoft staff being lazy / sloppy in the translation process. As far as the real devs of the game, I wouldn't say they are sloppy, but they are definitley very slow and cautious to respond to feedback, or change their game. When you become used to the American cycle of patching every few weeks with major changes and new content, this structure is noticably different. Not necessarily worse, although it would be nice surely if NCsoft Korea were more responsive to customer feedback, and if NCsoft NA were a more aggressive/assertive/active partner in the process. The problem is, at this point, they just don't have the sales figure to throw any weight around. Money talks, and we're not the money. But I think it does beg the question - if NCsoft Korea had been more pro-active and responsive to localisation needs, would L2 be doing a lot better in US and Euro markets today? I suspect yes.

Some of those examples you gave have to do with North American NCsoft staff being lazy / sloppy in the translation process. As far as the real devs of the game, I wouldn't say they are sloppy, but they are definitley very slow and cautious to respond to feedback, or change their game. When you become used to the American cycle of patching every few weeks with major changes and new content, this structure is noticably different. Not necessarily worse, although it would be nice surely if NCsoft Korea were more responsive to customer feedback, and if NCsoft NA were a more aggressive/assertive/active partner in the process. The problem is, at this point, they just don't have the sales figure to throw any weight around. Money talks, and we're not the money. But I think it does beg the question - if NCsoft Korea had been more pro-active and responsive to localisation needs, would L2 be doing a lot better in US and Euro markets today? I suspect yes.

It's noticeably worse. You do realize they have 2 hours of downtime every week that they could be using to patch smaller things in the game? The whole idea about waiting to "fix" things (I'm talking about thing in the game like Translation Errors, Skill imbalances, etc.) can be done on a maintenance day between major updates.

Tranlation is done by a program. The same type of program that comes with software development IDEs or that can be purchased 3rd party. Any developer knows that he or she needs to check all of their Resources to confirm proper translation. The fact that these horrible translations even come across to us is sloppy. We pay for the game client/account, and a monthly fee to play this game. Why market a product with bastardized translations. These translations errors are far from scarce.

Was is really necessary for them to leave Seal of Blockade in game for a whole Chronicle/Throne before they nerfed it, for example? Sleep, Cancel, Aura Flare? Did we really have to wait for a huge update so that they can make Curse Fear usable in PvP, or fix Transfer Pain so that Necros couldn't leave them in town and go gank people with 2x HP/CP?

Sloppy is them nerfing skills like Sleep/Sleep Cloud/etc. but having mobs casting pre-nerf versions of the skill. Healer gets Slept, and mobs own you. There are mobs in Cruma Tower that use pre-nerf Mana Burn and can drain your MP in < 1 minute (probably 30 seconds for a toon that would actually kill them for XP).

Sloppy is in fact getting an error message 201_Monestary of Silence whenever you're trying to port from Giran to Dion. Sloppy is the persistent critical errors some people get whenever they port or zone to and from certain places (like the MDT, or certain Aden CHs I've noticed). Let's not forget mass DCs when someone touchest a castle door at castle seiges, or just plain random mass DCs at seiges in general... The general bloat of the Lineage II client? How can a game so outdated graphically have such rigid system requirements, anyways?

The Developers are very careless IRT how the game is managed. That's why Private Servers are so popular. It's definitely not casue they don't wanna pay the paltry fee to play (not most of them, anyhow); it's cause they change the game and fit it to something that they find more acceptable .

When I played EQ I never had to wait a week for a Character transfer or Name Change (if you did it on a Tuesday afternoon or Wednesday). There was a GM who logged in and asked me if I was ready for my transfer. They told me to log off and log back in to my new server, and the transfer should be complete by the time I logged in. Same for name change. They usually did that within 10 minutes of you petitioning. If I wasn't online, they just did it. Didn't have to be 8-5, either. That was during the time when EQ had about 5x the players that L2 has now.

Everything NCSoft does with this game seems slow and without regard for common sense, for the most part - ill-respective of their customers/player base. They are in need of training for time management and prioritization. Then again, maybe Koreans don't believe in those...

It is not the fault of NCSoft-NA, they are just liasons/puppets for NCSoft-KOR.

I agree. I have no problems with BD's requiring the dual swords because that's what they do. Sword Singers should also have a requirement of some sort.

The ability to wield any weapon is the only thing that keeps a SwS from being insanely tedious to play. BDs already have a HUGE advantage offensively. SwSs defensive advantage is no where near as great as the BDs offensive advantage.

SwSs are already ******edly boring to play compared to the BD. Don't make it worse, please.

I agree. I have no problems with BD's requiring the dual swords because that's what they do. Sword Singers should also have a requirement of some sort.

The ability to wield any weapon is the only thing that keeps a SwS from being insanely tedious to play. BDs already have a HUGE advantage offensively. SwSs defensive advantage is no where near as great as the BDs offensive advantage.

SwSs are already ******edly boring to play compared to the BD. Don't make it worse, please.



Agreed. My main is a Light Elf and I so wish I could Sub a BD.

Eh.. I liked playing my Swordsinger.

Eh.. I liked playing my Swordsinger.

And yet I sense something 'past tense' about that statement...

And yet I sense something 'past tense' about that statement...

Hehee.. only because I quit playing the game right before C2's release. And I didn't feel like making the same class gain, this second time around. So I just started from scratch.

I had zero complaints about the class. I can see why many players feel Bladedancer is "better". I don't think it is actually better, but just offers a playstyle that fits most players better. I do think BD's solo better. But I leveled up with one of my best gaming buddies, and he was BD. We dueled frequently, and it was certainly not a forgone conclusion that I would lose.

SWS is not nearly as gimp as people seem to think these days. Then again, back then everyone was sure Hawkeye was one of the most gimp classes in the game. So it just goes to show how player perceptions change a lot. ^^

I was looking at the elf masteries for the blade singer and I noticed that there isn't one for duals and yet most of the blade singers I see use them? I am guessing they are beteter off with one handed swords.

i love this post, blade singer breakdown.

blade = 'blade' dancer
singer = sword 'singer'

best mixed ever, imo new class for real

And yet I sense something 'past tense' about that statement...

Hehee.. only because I quit playing the game right before C2's release. And I didn't feel like making the same class gain, this second time around. So I just started from scratch.

I had zero complaints about the class. I can see why many players feel Bladedancer is "better". I don't think it is actually better, but just offers a playstyle that fits most players better. I do think BD's solo better. But I leveled up with one of my best gaming buddies, and he was BD. We dueled frequently, and it was certainly not a forgone conclusion that I would lose.

SWS is not nearly as gimp as people seem to think these days. Then again, back then everyone was sure Hawkeye was one of the most gimp classes in the game. So it just goes to show how player perceptions change a lot. ^^



Erm SWS have got rubbish skills beyond the nice songs. Thats what I'd call gimped, and I know, I leveled one to 63 before I couldnt take it anymore. SWS is basically a dwarf (without hammer crush or stun) that sings every 2 minutes. Sure the songs are great but theres only so much singing that can cover up a really rubbish skillset. To emphasise this, you can save every bit of SP in the whole skilltree for an SWS except for the songs, and you wouldnt even notice while leveling because you dont use them anyway when you find out how rubbish they are.