I just want to hear what skills everyone think those classes should get.
I think......
they should have just one atack spell like other healing classes in other games like Holy light, photon, things like that.
what do you think? :eek:
I think they should have an Un Holy Nuke that Kills Holy Mobs.
or 1 target debuff like OLs 81lv aoe skill (unti heal skill)
or fear/poison/para/silence/decrease some stats debuff (that would work and be worth the mp) ... so many kinds of debuffs and they got so far... root, block shield, shackle ...
It basically cuts it in half... you think about how much haste lvl 2 increases your attack speed, then windshackle decreases it that much.
Wrong... The level of windshackle only increases it's chance of successfully landing on a higher level mob/player. This is because it is a debuff and not a buff. There is NO Windshackle 1, 2 or 3, though there DEFINATELY should be. That would make sense, since it would match up with the way Haste works, so it will never come to be.
With Haste, the level also increases the attack speed. There is no failed cast with a buff.
Windshackle does help though, in some situations, but it's often not used actively. If you are soloing as an SE, it can help a bit along with VR, but as an SH, after level 20 you never get any more upgrades to it, so useless because it will never land.
Wrong... The level of windshackle only increases it's chance of successfully landing on a higher level mob/player. This is because it is a debuff and not a buff. There is NO Windshackle 1, 2 or 3, though there DEFINATELY should be.
The succes does increase per level, BUT after an amount of levels into it, the effect of the windshackle increases as well
but as an SH, after level 20 you never get any more upgrades to it, so useless because it will never land.
Clanmates seem to share the same level of incomprehension. Though I think it falls more under, are you that much of a puppy to Ashley?
The static "truth" of comments made from players that DO NOT play the classes they comment about, is that they are not even remotely versed in why the comments are made initially, because they do not play that class as a main.
It is why TRUE main players of a class get bashed on so much (McBuff, Populus, amongst the very few others left). This rolls around back to boxing/BOTTING players. They have a buffpet they p-leveled, or even after that like so MANY using inappropriate methods, and say it is easy and have never or rarely had to level them as their "Main". Yes, players like you have your opinion, but please don't talk out of your !esrA. It becomes even worse when someone lacks reading comprehension, or maybe did not read the whole post.
Sauron is in his high teens to low 20s and tries to party. He/she is not even within SE/SH range yet, so this thread is not relegated to SE alone.
Clanmates seem to share the same level of incomprehension. Though I think it falls more under, are you that much of a puppy to Ashley?
O gee, not even twins act that way
The static "truth" of comments made from players that DO NOT play the classes they comment about, is that they are not even remotely versed in why the comments are made initially, because they do not play that class as a main.
If I didn't play an SE, there would be no point in me even commenting on them
It is why TRUE main players of a class get bashed on so much (McBuff, Populus, amongst the very few others left). This rolls around back to boxing/BOTTING players. They have a buffpet they p-leveled, or even after that like so MANY using inappropriate methods, and say it is easy and have never or rarely had to level them as their "Main". Yes, players like you have your opinion, but please don't talk out of your !esrA. It becomes even worse when someone lacks reading comprehension, or maybe did not read the whole post.
I don't care if The player plays a SE as a main or not, it's their choice that they made to play an SE, they were fully aware of what they were running into and decided to take apon it, It's not NC's fault that your not satisfied with a particular class, there are 30+ classes to pick and choose to play. Also I HAVE seen characters who complain about their main becuase they're not using their main to their full potential. Like dwarves for example, Their not made to PvP but they can stiull do so sortof like a tank, and they can solo fine, yet people complain. People complain about other classes like... destroyers, They're slow use that to your advantage, buy a bow and deal with it or run away. The ordasity of you trying to down on others for a comment that doesn't hurt anyone in any way shape or form is byfar chilish and unruly, something expected from a 10 year old.
Sauron is in his high teens to low 20s and tries to party. He/she is not even within SE/SH range yet, so this thread is not relegated to SE alone.
If you look at everyone's posts, their talking about SE skills what SH gets higher levels of windshackle? or have to worry about nukes? or why should they get major heal?
Also I only give advice on classes I play, I point 2 others On classes I don't. I have a lot of alts 60+ over the past 4+ years and I solo them all I think that's enough for me give advise on a class that you do the same [censored] over and over again for 60+ levels. I also have a Fighter and Mage over 74+ that gives you a general idea of how each class will handle at higher levels. and I watch other classes in they high levels over years of grouping to learn they strengths and weakness.
I find that most people that complain about they class are only going do just that complain instead of finding a better way 2 play they class. Every class in this game has a work around you just need 2 find what is yours and focus on that.
NCSOFT is going do what they going 2 do regardless of what you say so deal with it and sub or reroll. :D
This is a Koren Game people and even thou they Ship our idea over I'm sure the Idea's coming from NCSOFT is not what they read from here. Except the ideas they take from WOW :D
Clanmates seem to share the same level of incomprehension. Though I think it falls more under, are you that much of a puppy to Ashley?
O gee, not even twins act that way
The static "truth" of comments made from players that DO NOT play the classes they comment about, is that they are not even remotely versed in why the comments are made initially, because they do not play that class as a main.
If I didn't play an SE, there would be no point in me even commenting on them
It is why TRUE main players of a class get bashed on so much (McBuff, Populus, amongst the very few others left). This rolls around back to boxing/BOTTING players. They have a buffpet they p-leveled, or even after that like so MANY using inappropriate methods, and say it is easy and have never or rarely had to level them as their "Main". Yes, players like you have your opinion, but please don't talk out of your !esrA. It becomes even worse when someone lacks reading comprehension, or maybe did not read the whole post.
I don't care if The player plays a SE as a main or not, it's their choice that they made to play an SE, they were fully aware of what they were running into and decided to take apon it, It's not NC's fault that your not satisfied with a particular class, there are 30+ classes to pick and choose to play. Also I HAVE seen characters who complain about their main becuase they're not using their main to their full potential. Like dwarves for example, Their not made to PvP but they can stiull do so sortof like a tank, and they can solo fine, yet people complain. People complain about other classes like... destroyers, They're slow use that to your advantage, buy a bow and deal with it or run away. The ordasity of you trying to down on others for a comment that doesn't hurt anyone in any way shape or form is byfar chilish and unruly, something expected from a 10 year old.
Sauron is in his high teens to low 20s and tries to party. He/she is not even within SE/SH range yet, so this thread is not relegated to SE alone.
If you look at everyone's posts, their talking about SE skills what SH gets higher levels of windshackle? or have to worry about nukes? or why should they get major heal?
I think the main complaint about SE's is they took away their ability to Heal. So many people who chose SE to be a healer had that taken away from them. A SE is not a viable healer anymore at higher lvls. I lvled my SE up to lvl 77 as a healer, then C5 came out and I was no longer a good healer. I would run out of mana very fast and could not keep pace with EE or Bishop anymore. I grew to detest this new role as only being a hybrid buffer, backup healer and mana battery. I did not choose this role, NCSoft changed my role and after 3 years of playing as a healer my class changed. So when you say people knew about this and chose to play the class the way it was, you sir are wrong. The class changed completely when C5 came out.
I think the main complaint about SE's is they took away their ability to Heal. So many people who chose SE to be a healer had that taken away from them. A SE is not a viable healer anymore at higher lvls. I lvled my SE up to lvl 77 as a healer, then C5 came out and I was no longer a good healer. I would run out of mana very fast and could not keep pace with EE or Bishop anymore. I grew to detest this new role as only being a hybrid buffer, backup healer and mana battery. I did not choose this role, NCSoft changed my role and after 3 years of playing as a healer my class changed.
Yes, that is the main thing. The role of the class changed. From a class which had an ACTIVE role (throwing the few buffs the "real" buffer in the party did not have and then healing) to basically ... well ... I do not know what the role is supposed to be right now. Throwing VR and emp and then recharging others so it does not look as if you're totally useless, and hitting the mobs with the mighty SE DD powers because there is nothing else you can do except stand around. At 78+, the only thing which changes is that you can also throw PoW every now and then if the real buffer does not have PoF or CoV yet.
I have adapted to this as well as I could - I got a BO/Focus so I can hit mobs and deal some damage, I disable annoying nuker mobs with curse:doom augmentation, I recharge the cardinal in the party and whoever needs it, I throw backup heals (lowbie group heal, yay go go!) to help out - so I have something to do and it is not really boring, I am just disappointed that I cannot really offer anything useful to the party even though I am 79 now. Everything I do could be done by a lower level SE, too - well, I can recharge better because of arcane wisdom, but that's it. There are just no interesting high lvl skills, and the role of the SE in a party is not defined at all because there are no distinguishing skills. NCSoft just does not know how to handle hybrid classes, for them a hybrid class is "some skills of that class and some skills of that other class, but we cannot really give them any GOOD skills".
Yes the Heal got Change to a lesser heal with a heal over time. It's Still a Heal. At top Level you can do 800+ heal with BPSPS and you still have the Heal over time Running. Why is it we can do Full Hero Riffs with just an SE as a healer and WC for a buffer. No EE and NO Bishop. (however we would gladly take an EE or Bishop :D)
Your heal got Change it was never good as a Bishop before C5. And would of never out heal Major heal from a EE. You guys give it up SE is a Hybrid Love your class and move on. It just may be your Clan or Ally becasue All the Main Live SE's in our alliance are happy with they class. :p
Just a Few Wish they could still use Bows mainly the Summoners.
Yes the Heal got Change to a lesser heal with a heal over time. It's Still a Heal. At top Level you can do 800+ heal with BPSPS and you still have the Heal over time Running. Why is it we can do Full Hero Riffs with just an SE as a healer and WC for a buffer. No EE and NO Bishop. (however we would gladly take an EE or Bishop :D)
Your heal got Change it was never good as a Bishop before C5. And would of never out heal Major heal from a EE. You guys give it up SE is a Hybrid Love your class and move on. It just may be your Clan or Ally becasue All the Main Live SE's in our alliance are happy with they class. :p
Just a Few Wish they could still use Bows mainly the Summoners.
yeah its a far cry from the 1200+ HP instant heals a SE could do in C4. Try telling that to your Hellbound party or Pagans Darkness Room party or Imperial Tomb party or Forge of Gods Party. End game a SE just plain sucks at healing. C4 and previous a SE had stronger heals than an EE (based on pure INT) but not quite as strong as a bishop. Now SE's have horrible heals in comparison to either class. All SE's that I know that played their SE C4 and previous are not happy with their characters after this change. Maybe all the SE's in your clan started their SE after c5 came out, which was released Sept 7th, 2006. That is almost 2 years now.
actually I think I healed for 1400~ HP with a single heal, a Group heal was 1000~ depending on the weapon you had.
with prayer, S weapon + S shots and the target had some kind of skill that increased heals + zerk + emp + BD dances? if your get over 800 with one target on istant heal your lucky, but try to compare it to BPs or EEs heal power before 50lv... 70+lv heal power of SE vs 50lv BP / EE, youll see the diference in heal power and cast speed
Think he was talking about the pre-nerf greater heals. I tested them out back then, and without the Bishop using prayer, the difference between my SE's greater heals and the bishop's greater heals (both using lvl 74 skillset) was about 50 hp per heal or around that, using shots. SE greater heal was not 1400hp, but ca. 1200hp per heal was possible. The SE heals as they are right now are ridiculous for a class which is considered a "healer" by NCSoft. As long as the situation is under control and VR is working well, a SE is fine for healing the occasional spike damage (i.e. some exploding mob or stuff like that). But once the party gets unexpected adds or several ranged mobs draining the crap out of somebody (remember SE has no trance to do crowd control against ranged mobs), it is greater heal-battle heal-battle heal-greater heal-battle heal... just to keep the party members who get hit alive. And there goes the mp then. EE can do major heal which costs far less than greater heal (like half the mp cost with clarity) and heals for twice the amount (when somebody is getting beaten up and needs heals NOW, the HOT part of greater heal is irrelevant), while a cardinal can just pop balance life and a major group heal afterwards.
i know greater group heal used to be 1000~ i found a screenshot of me doing 1001 heal with a group heal. I am still looking for my DVD of screenshots from feb 2006 to mar 2007 :(
Yes the Heal got Change to a lesser heal with a heal over time. It's Still a Heal. At top Level you can do 800+ heal with BPSPS and you still have the Heal over time Running. Why is it we can do Full Hero Riffs with just an SE as a healer and WC for a buffer. No EE and NO Bishop. (however we would gladly take an EE or Bishop :D)
Your heal got Change it was never good as a Bishop before C5. And would of never out heal Major heal from a EE. You guys give it up SE is a Hybrid Love your class and move on. It just may be your Clan or Ally becasue All the Main Live SE's in our alliance are happy with they class. :p
Just a Few Wish they could still use Bows mainly the Summoners.
yeah its a far cry from the 1200+ HP instant heals a SE could do in C4. Try telling that to your Hellbound party or Pagans Darkness Room party or Imperial Tomb party or Forge of Gods Party. End game a SE just plain sucks at healing. C4 and previous a SE had stronger heals than an EE (based on pure INT) but not quite as strong as a bishop. Now SE's have horrible heals in comparison to either class. All SE's that I know that played their SE C4 and previous are not happy with their characters after this change. Maybe all the SE's in your clan started their SE after c5 came out, which was released Sept 7th, 2006. That is almost 2 years now.
Dont get me started on PVP now....
yes it is but lest not forget heal over time also.
Hell we did Hero riff last night (lot people at hero riff last night so many in fact some people could not get in the NPC was telling them full) anyway we did hero riff with no ee, no se and no bishop. we just had 2 WC that use guess what? the WC heal over time. If a WC can do it you can't tell me a SE can't. We never skipped a room and everyone was fine.
And yes they are 76+ after C5 so they never knew how it was before but they still like they class. that should tell you that it's still must be good enough. I would like my dagger to still be bad killer like in C2 but times changes and I still love my class.
O this was our Hero Riff group nothing special but it worked.
Me a Wind Rider, Hell Knight, War Smith no summon, PS with Summon, SD (BD), DoomCryer (and yes we had COV :D). warcryer, SS (SH), PR. That was our party and we did fine just didn't get the RB thou maybe we will get lucky tonight.
Yes the Heal got Change to a lesser heal with a heal over time. It's Still a Heal. At top Level you can do 800+ heal with BPSPS and you still have the Heal over time Running. Why is it we can do Full Hero Riffs with just an SE as a healer and WC for a buffer. No EE and NO Bishop. (however we would gladly take an EE or Bishop :D)
Your heal got Change it was never good as a Bishop before C5. And would of never out heal Major heal from a EE. You guys give it up SE is a Hybrid Love your class and move on. It just may be your Clan or Ally becasue All the Main Live SE's in our alliance are happy with they class. :p
Just a Few Wish they could still use Bows mainly the Summoners.
yeah its a far cry from the 1200+ HP instant heals a SE could do in C4. Try telling that to your Hellbound party or Pagans Darkness Room party or Imperial Tomb party or Forge of Gods Party. End game a SE just plain sucks at healing. C4 and previous a SE had stronger heals than an EE (based on pure INT) but not quite as strong as a bishop. Now SE's have horrible heals in comparison to either class. All SE's that I know that played their SE C4 and previous are not happy with their characters after this change. Maybe all the SE's in your clan started their SE after c5 came out, which was released Sept 7th, 2006. That is almost 2 years now.
Dont get me started on PVP now....
yes it is but lest not forget heal over time also.
Hell we did Hero riff last night (lot people at hero riff last night so many in fact some people could not get in the NPC was telling them full) anyway we did hero riff with no ee, no se and no bishop. we just had 2 WC that use guess what? the WC heal over time. If a WC can do it you can't tell me a SE can't. We never skipped a room and everyone was fine.
And yes they are 76+ after C5 so they never knew how it was before but they still like they class. that should tell you that it's still must be good enough. I would like my dagger to still be bad killer like in C2 but times changes and I still love my class.
O this was our Hero Riff group nothing special but it worked.
Me a Wind Rider, Hell Knight, War Smith no summon, PS with Summon, SD (BD), DoomCryer (and yes we had COV :D). warcryer, SC (SH), PR. That was our party and we did fine just didn't get the RB thou maybe we will get lucky tonight.
LOL a phantom summoner can duo hero rift with a warcryer. Try doing that with an adventurer instead of a PS and then try going to FoG and see how you do. Not to mention Rift is pretty terrible exp and I dont consider that place end game.
I was speaking of end game places such as Hellbound, Forge of Gods, even Imperial Tomb BOSS rooms. A SE CANNOT and never will keep a party alive in these places as a healer. In C4 I could do Imperial Tomb and Forge of Gods no problem with my SE as being the only healer. Now I cannot. You cannot say that their healing was not completely nerfed. I CANNOT heal in these places I could heal before. The EE and Bishop can still heal there though. When C5 came out those were the 2 top lvling places for end game players.
So you see I was a healer, now I am not. I do not even dare try to enter Hellbound as a healer, I can only hope to get in a nuker group as a recharger.
oh and they would of had to been 76+ after c4 not c5
C4 or C5 I don't know only one of them remember the old heals and she still likes her SE but she has Been on her PR a lot lately so she could be hiding the fact she hates her SE now I don't know she never said she does and her SE is still fully geared and she does solo with it at 75+ with Majestic Light and some +10 A duals. But Like I said she been on her PR a LOT.
LOL a phantom summoner can duo hero rift with a warcryer. Try doing that with an adventurer instead of a PS and then try going to FoG and see how you do. Not to mention Rift is pretty terrible exp and I dont consider that place end game.
not every room in hero riff they can't.
Also I have been to Forge of Gods doing AOE with just a Warlock, PP with POF a SE with VR4, SS (SH)and my 74 WC doing heals with the SE with a 80+ Destroyer Pulling 8 or more mobs. Granted he has full epic jewelry and some +8 S grade Pole. still no EE and no Bishop. ;)
oh and they would of had to been 76+ after c4 not c5
C4 or C5 I don't know only one of them remember the old heals and she still likes her SE but she has Been on her PR a lot lately so she could be hiding the fact she hates her SE now I don't know she never said she does and her SE is still fully geared and she does solo with it at 75+ with Majestic Light and some +10 A duals. But Like I said she been on her PR a LOT.
LOL a phantom summoner can duo hero rift with a warcryer. Try doing that with an adventurer instead of a PS and then try going to FoG and see how you do. Not to mention Rift is pretty terrible exp and I dont consider that place end game.
not every room in hero riff they can't.
Also I have been to Forge of Gods doing AOE with just a Warlock, PP with POF a SE with VR4, SS (SH)and my 74 WC doing heals with the SE with a 80+ Destroyer Pulling 8 or more mobs. Granted he has full epic jewelry and some +8 S grade Pole. still no EE and no Bishop. ;)
Tell Jingoea he cant solo Rift with Warcryer buffs LOL
AOE parties usually dont require heals nor is that a normal party. That would be classified as a powerlvling party.
AOE parties usually dont require heals nor is that a normal party. That would be classified as a powerlvling party.
But a part an SE can play in ;)
Yeah but its not a party where a healer is required. The whole point is SE's used to be healers now they are not. You are not proving otherwise. An Dominator with Heart of paagrio would suffice in that party.
because now they are a hybrid. They are no longer a healer just like a PP and WC are not healers. can they Heal? yes. Are they healers? no.
A WC is a Hybrid (Fighter/buffer/nuker) A SE is a Hybrid (Buffer/Healer) a PP is a Hybird (buffer/Buff Pet) :D
Thanks for proving my point they are not a healer. C4 and previous they were a healer, now they are not. This is the main reason why so many SE's are disgruntled about their classes changing. They went from a pure healer class to a half ***** buffer and half ***** healer.
PS: as did i say in oteher threed, enchanted WC party heal is stronger than SEs party heal (and SE cant enchant heal skills)
Yes, that is another kick in the nuts. SE is classified as a healer, but cannot enchant the healing skills...
So the class transformed from a good healing class with good buffs (which admittedly WAS a bit too good way back then) to a healing class with some good buffs (when WC started getting the same buffs mid-C3 - focus, guidance, vr) to a bad healing class with no unique buffs which is pretty much only useful as a 2-box (but only lower level, after all every self-respecting nuker will also have a 78EE for recharge/pow).
I just hope the new healing skill the SE gets in the next update will be good. Guess I will see on the PTS. If it is not, I am seriously thinking about changing my main class...
But don't hate your class becasue your not a healer you still can do the job of 3 classes. Buffer, healer and a recharger. now what bishop can do that? and SE is not 1/2 ***** buffer the only thing they are missing is haste IMO. You can get BTB5 from a staff. ;) And you can buy Haste in a bottle also ;)
I dont hate my class and I dont think the last live played SEs out there hate theyr class... its just, the class and its skills was changed so often and so much from NC, from active play stile SEs changed to pasive, without beeing unique in any of theyr skills.
Heals are done better by other class, buffs better by other class, recharge better by other class, prophecy better by other class...
Lets see on PTS how those new skills will work out, but if they are that bad as the 81lv SS skills, many SEs will change to theyr subs :(
Meh, I'm looking forward to Lord of Vampire. Maybe not as much before with many mobs poofing back to their points of origin during an extended train, but I'm sure I'll find uses for it.
I tried Thorn Root last PTS and it seemed like Seal of Binding dressed up with a different animation and a negligible DoT. I happen to really like Seal of Binding, and AoE hold is actually very nice in a lot of PvE (not so much in PvP due to what is usually a tragically low landing rate), so I won't complain too much about that either except to say that the DoT and/or land rate should be much beefier since it's an 81 skill and PBAoE hold, meaning that the targets you want to root need to be basically on top of you already for it to have a chance to work.