I logged in a few days ago only to see our three new combined servers still showing a Light Status. It sort of shocked me, i would think after all of this we would be back to Normal.
So i wonder if another set of mergers are in the future?
So i wonder if another set of mergers are in the future?
I wouldnt bet against it ... with content requiring a large player base and considering the NA population is 2-3 servers worth max I dont see why they wont keep merging things
IMO with current population staying as it is l2 should be 2 - 3 NA and 3 Euro servers, but a year down the road population is more likelly to decrease further so...
IMO with current population staying as it is l2 should be 2 - 3 NA and 3 Euro servers
Just looking at the in game server status......
I for see 2 NA servers one east and west coast and 4 Euro's. From a business stand point it makes sense, from a worried player stand point it makes me worry. :(
I don't want to go through another merger. I don't want to think of one. However, I am curious how many accounts are being canceled as a result of the mergers. Would it be enough for them to think twice about another merger or insignificant and irrelevant.
I don't want to go through another merger. I don't want to think of one. However, I am curious how many accounts are being canceled as a result of the mergers. Would it be enough for them to think twice about another merger or insignificant and irrelevant.
I think that there is an over-representation of the casual / pve players on this forum and so we always see more of that side than we do the other.
In fact, I'd be willing to bet that there are far more players quitting because the merger really didn't change much than players quitting just because they didn't want the mergers (which I still find to be ridiculous... but that's just my opinion.)
While I still enjoy this game, I'm kinda keeping my eyes open looking for another one, because I feel that L2 is on the downward road. Oh, I believe it will be up and running for years to come (L1 still is) but I just don't really want to play on a server that can't even field 2-3 clan's worth of high level players. It's hard enough to find parties/raid groups/etc. with work and RL constraints - if you narrow the pool of people you can play with, it would become even more difficult. And sieges where 'top' clans can only pull together 2-3 groups is just sad. :(
For my way of thinking, they used the wrong foundation to consider which servers to merge with each other. They should have merged the low population servers with higher population servers... Devianne and Bartz should have been the ones receiving more players. Of course, then there is the holy hell of no clan halls or castles, etc... but at least there would be a viable population to work with... The server transfers were almost like a merger... at least with the mergers you get to keep all your alts and warehouse/inventory items.
For my way of thinking, they used the wrong foundation to consider which servers to merge with each other. They should have merged the low population servers with higher population servers... Devianne and Bartz should have been the ones receiving more players. Of course, then there is the holy hell of no clan halls or castles, etc... but at least there would be a viable population to work with... The server transfers were almost like a merger... at least with the mergers you get to keep all your alts and warehouse/inventory items.
They merged the servers based upon their Ping rates. So if you merged servers with radically different ping rates you would easily screw people over.
I've heard people say that the Ping rates don't matter but I can say first hand, when I've gone to Bartz to look around, there is always a second or two lag between my commands.
I am curious how many accounts are being canceled as a result of the mergers.
I most likely will not be renewing my accounts of many years, nor my wife or my 2 kids for simple fact of way they handeld Halls... If NCsoft can merge severs, then they could of came up with code to activate the other buildings in town for use. I dont think it would of been that dificult.
I had (4) accounts over the past 3 yrs.
The biggest thing the Clany's enjoyed was day we won the Hall. As far as my clany's go they not know the loss of hall until the return, problay wont due to merger. they are (deployed). I did not see the point in saling every thing I owne to try bid on something that has very little value other than prescribed bid amount. there are those that bid fair amount to purchase to prevent some medicore clan like (ME) to use such item for intended use.
Well thats my opinion flame if you will another merger would problay mean the end of this game for many AND most definatly me if it happens again and if i'am still playing.. WONT be any more.
Crafty, just think of this - Teon has at least 2x the population of any of the NA servers and they still have the same number of halls. what should all those players say?
"activating" the other buildings in towns, contrary to your belief, is very difficult. it would basically require programming the new "areas" - adding textures, objects etc. which NCNA doesn't do, so you'd have to take that to NC Korea, which in turn doesn't care about US/EU players' requests.
If NCsoft can merge severs, then they could of came up with code to activate the other buildings in town for use. I dont think it would of been that difficult.
That requires a code rewrite which needs NC K's approval and them writing the code.
@ Everyone
They should have had east and west coast server clusters from the start. Then as player population grows so does the cluster....
Yes that means only two servers for NA, but it wouldn't have put us into the position we are currently in. To be honest from the stand point of server population, they didn't go far enough....
I don't see how they can't avoid another set of mergers.....
it has nothing to do with "caring" for the NA market ... korean servers have similar if not higher population to teon and still have the same number of chs :) it's game design, a way to force players to pvp for their ch, trouble is NA players dont bother to ;)
it has nothing to do with "caring" for the NA market ... korean servers have similar if not higher population to teon and still have the same number of chs :) it's game design, a way to force players to pvp for their ch, trouble is NA players dont bother to ;)
i think it has more to do with forcing players into bigger groups (in order to have CH) rather than many small ones
also think it does have to do with caring about NA market. i bet if a merge were to come over there and most (all?) players would ask for a better sollution than opening bids as "free for all" they'd listen. don't think they'd ad halls, but they'd come up with a better system. not for us though.
i think it has more to do with forcing players into bigger groups (in order to have CH) rather than many small ones
also think it does have to do with caring about NA market. i bet if a merge were to come over there and most (all?) players would ask for a better sollution than opening bids as "free for all" they'd listen. don't think they'd ad halls, but they'd come up with a better system. not for us though.
there's been 4-5 server merges in korea, everything that was done there was copied exactly in NA mergers :)
The problem with finding a fair way of doing things is that ... there isnt a fair way of doing things, nomatter what you propose there will always be a group that feels let down by the choice, so sometimes the generic ffa is the better choice, it does after all put everyone on the exact same spot
and yeah there is a trend ingame towards fewer bigger clans as opposed to small clans of the c4 and earlier days .... it's not just clan halls, it's ol skills, clan skills etc. Anyways, that's universal too though :)
NC Korea, which in turn doesn't care about US/EU players' requests.
Exactly my point. I started at the end c-2 just as newbie town die down when dion was packed full from one entrance to the other and I wanted HALL. I researched ask.. found out that they be adding new ones on the new patch (C-4) low behold i bid at the time 153 mil...Made enemys when i won the hall but worked hard for it. We only wanted the hall because it couldn't be LOST.
Piss poor advertisement and lack of players should not make other suffers..
If NA ncsoft would put few games on the shelf LIKE WOW you might actualy get few hundred new customers. Being military person, our stores stocks hundreds of games. and I havent seen LINEAGE 2 box sense i started 3 rys ago. So what do they buy instead when i ask them try this game WOW. cause they think it was what was talking about.
["activating" the other buildings in towns, contrary to your belief, is very difficult. it would basically require programming the new "areas" - adding textures, objects etc.]
Just saying you need to please your customers so makeing some code wont be difficult same code allready exsist except for the door man name. So saying its difficult , I dont believe. So why not add these to every sever you besurprised if had those halls availble in every town and they where manned by real active clans how much the game would pick up. Customer satisfaction does not seem to be towards us. And i bet if they did this to Koreans they would have come up with differant solution.
crafty .... like I had explained in another thread there was a perfectly legal way to ensure ncsoft paid for your clan hall on the merged servers assuming you allready owned a ch ... so instead of whining now maybe you should have spent a few minutes thinking before the mergers ;)
oh and like I said before the merger rules were a word for word copy of the rules koreans used for the mergers they did there
ok so what use is it to you if they increase the number of halls? if you don't have the max bid amount, or if you're not fast enough you won't get one even if there are more.
and doubling the number and just giving a hall to everyone who had one on the 2 initial servers is out of the question, because in goddard, rune, schuttgart, there aren't any buildings to "activate"
even in aden there are only 4 unused buildings while there are 6 halls
The servers are Light even with all the bots that go around. Now imagine this was a clean and pure game, with no bots at all, wanna bet that we'd barely fill one single server?
I guess its easier for NCSoft to make new servers and joggle them around than actually clean this game up.
Yes it wouldnt look good for the "best mmorpg on the market" to have just one server, so please keep making those servers, fill them up with bots and brag about how many players you have!
... please , please. please stop this dame merger thread.
If it starts to pop more again and flooding the forum I am going to go insane.
They just did a merge please drop the dame subject. :mad:
It wasn't enough. None of the NA servers have moved off of light status. And i have a feeling we will be having a second set of mergers in the near future.
See the thing is, what about active clans losing clan halls with over 50 members in it?
I work for a living, I cannot sit home all day anymore and wait to bid on a clan hall the second servers come up. Should I be penalized? I had the clan hall over 2 years now, paid the max for it and everything.
Another problem is if you merge bartz and dev with an already merged server now if rune had potentially 18 clan halls on 3 servers now it will have 6 one meaning 12 clans are now screwed instead of 6.
Merging servers past this point is no longer the answer. They need to get more subscriptions and advertise.
Merging servers past this point is no longer the answer. They need to get more subscriptions and advertise.
you don't get ppl to massively subscribe to a 4 year old game, no matter how much you advertise it.
you wouldn't expect ppl to subscrive to lineage 1 anymore, would you? the comparison is a little far-fetched, but that's where L2 is headed too.
mergers will happen again, the only variable being how soon.
the fact that i registered my forum account in december doesn't mean i wasn't playing before. i just didn't feel the need to say anything, i got all my info from reading w/o a registered account.
just like i didn't really say much since december till a week or two ago. and i'll probably "disappear" again soon just to come back after another few months/years.
anyway, my point was that it's natural for the population to steadily decrease after the peak has been reached.
maybe the whole process is slower for WoW because it's so newbie friendly and doesn't require you to quit your job and get a divorce to catch up and be on par with the "top dogs"
It just seems NA players are dwindling but European players keep going up.
What I don't like about the mergers is that there is a 6 month wait period for transfers to the merged servers. Thus people who transfered off the server will feel a little cheated that they can't come back.
I feel sorry for Devianne, the lowest pop server now, very neglected. They should have merged Devianne with Hindemith and Gustin all at the same time. Making it the official EST server.
6 months is a transfer cooldown, once u've been transfered, u have wait 6 month no matter what server you decide to move next.
Another thing is that characters creation on merged servers were and may be still closed (to resolve name conflicts first), so if u can't create char - u can't transfer )
Dev is still a higher population then any of the merged servers, where do you get your info?
And wow has seen no decrease in accounts in the last 4 years MORE PEOPLE KEEP PLAYING IT EVERY MONTH. So no its not natural for a game to decrease with time you just too dense to realize games can get a resurgance of accounts. When WoW released Burning Crusade they had 2 million more accounts then they ever did.
L2 and NCSoft just suck at advertising, and nothing is ever solved by merging servers as shown by this last server merge. Yea merge server, ****** off people and lots of cancelled accounts.
So you lost more people by merging now, so want to rethink how good this merging idea really is?
um id like to know something.... where are u getting ur facts that hinde and gustin are east? O.o im in Edmonton, Alberta (about 14 hrs from the WEST coast, and like 60 hrs from the east coast and my lowest ping has always been hinde(now pho)....
um id like to know something.... where are u getting ur facts that hinde and gustin are east? O.o im in Edmonton, Alberta (about 14 hrs from the WEST coast, and like 60 hrs from the east coast and my lowest ping has always been hinde(now pho)....
it's all about routing. it happens that your data has to travel more to reach closer geographical destinations.
for example all our external data gets routed through germany, hence i get better ping with some server in germany that's 1k miles away than i get with one in a neighboring country that's 100 miles away.
6 months is a transfer cooldown, once u've been transfered, u have wait 6 month no matter what server you decide to move next.
Yes, this i know. But if you transferred on the first day transfers were available, next month the 6 months is up, and you are eligible for transfers again.
I was talking about that someone said there was an additional 6 mo. limit imposed upon servers that were merged... so I guess I misread what was said...
um still no answer to my original question... wheres the info from NCSOFT saying that hinde is an east cost server or is this all hearsay and conjecture?
Well, in the ******ic pursuit of "any type of mergers at all" some of us argued it was being handled poorly and were quickly shouted down.
The fact that there is obvious indication in the minds of many that additional mergers ALREADY seem necessary would seem to support that the first ones were stupid (or at the very least half-*****).
I wasn't for them in the first place. But I understood those who were for them to be interested in the mergers solving some low population issues.
It's what, about a month out now?
So let's assess. How did they do at accomplishing goals?
More overall players? (higher returning player rate)......
Significantly more players per merged server?
Economic improvements within the markets?
A fix for the dreaded low population servers that just had to be "fixed--dammit"?
Those were the arguments "for" mergers.
I don't have numbers of course, but it sure doesn't seem from what anecdotal evidence there is (server status, market changes, some dissatisfaction with merged server # results and requests for MORE merges, and not exactly a huge influx of returning or new players) that they didn't accomplish even a fraction of the supposed goals they were intended to address.
End of the day, they seem to have been a significant failure.
Now the call is for more mergers--because "this time they'll work"......lmao.
What's the evidence for THAT belief/fantasy?
It's my opinion they accomplished nothing. Even though significant #'s of players argued they were going to solve numerous problems.
Didn't do squat.
Predictably, we see more demands for "more mergers!!!!"
Ignorance has been defined as continuing to exhibit the same behavior and expecting a different/better outcome (to paraphrase badly).
This game is dying. I suppose it's worthwhile to attempt to grasp at any straws possible. But since content changes are being largely ignored in favor of these quick fixes, I can't really see where doing more of the same will make any appreciable difference.
Few seem willing to admit that the net result of mergers "SEEMS TO BE" (no one knows for sure) that server A pop + server B pop somehow after the merges equaled somewhat less than what the two servers originally totaled.
It appears--at least at a glance--that the net result of mergers the first time was a decrease in total players.
You may argue I can't prove that. I'll grant you that. But similarly, you can't prove that crappy outcomes from merging six servers will somehow miraculously be more successful when the remaining 5 are merged again down to 2 or 3.
It was a poor concept and it was implemented poorly and it hasn't demonstrated any of the benefits it was to deliver.
.....yeah....let's do them again! Tomorrow dammit!
Drakkos.... it's been like MAYBE 2 weeks since the merger...
And I agree the game's player base is dying. And it's really too bad because it's such a beautiful and intricate game. With the introduction of each new update the players get more and more frustrated. Though we may love or hate the content changes, what really gets everyone's goat is the lack of people to play with... and that is the core of our reason to play.. whether you are a pvper or not.
last i walked through giran in dev i couldnt move around freely it was pack.
So i seem to miss your point?
I have over 60 active people in my clan and I am not even on of the bigger clans so where you going with your evidence?
Find least just save this for when the site is back up them we can get back on this.
However Aria is far from Dead so you can drop that BS. Even When Lionna was dead with my alliance it was not dead to me and I was doing better then I am now.
Drakkos.... it's been like MAYBE 2 weeks since the merger...
And I agree the game's player base is dying. And it's really too bad because it's such a beautiful and intricate game. With the introduction of each new update the players get more and more frustrated. Though we may love or hate the content changes, what really gets everyone's goat is the lack of people to play with... and that is the core of our reason to play.. whether you are a pvper or not.
Obs, you know I love you (:)), but two weeks or four weeks is being a bit pendantic, don't you think?
More people will be playing on the already-merged servers two weeks from now?
Probably not.
The mergers accomplished very little. Lionna was light, Kain was lighter, the two combined into Aria are still light. Instead of 5-600 (or whatever low # you choose to believe) there are 800 (or whatever low # you choose to believe).
Let's rewind the tape a bit. These mergers, the ones already completed were absolutely hailed on these forums as REQUIRED and wild claims abounded of how "mergers were THE answer".
I suppose that's my point.
We originally heard from many that these current mergers were absolutely mandatory and that they woud be just the thing.
Some of us argued they would not be--and weren't very popular.
Now they've occured and accomplished **** little (if anything).
So predictably (as I'm pointing out) the same old forum trolls shout that their NEW answer is......more mergers.
NCSOFT isn't RECRUITING or ADVERSTISING.
NCSoft isn't adding valuable content for casual players in chronicle releases--particularly content for the less-than-uber players.
At this point arguing for more mergers seems to me like having a disagreement over music selection on the Titanic.
Of course the music will play (the servers will be merged again and again), but can we have no more enlightened commentary about how that will matter in the long run. Except in incidental and minor ways--mergers are simply not a significant survival strategy.
We've seen that clearly at this point.
That's how I view this scenario anyway. Sadly, arguments for and against more mergers and the relative value of more mergers are diverting energy and focus away from suggestions and concepts that might actually make a difference.
....bleh! I'm finding it harder and harder to care.
Lionna was light, Kain was lighter, the two combined into Aria are still light.
i remember reading on this forum (pls don't make me look for it) that a server still shows "light" up to 4k online players.
so just the fact that you can still see it as light doesn't mean population hasn't increased substantially.
Drakkos.... it's been like MAYBE 2 weeks since the merger...
And I agree the game's player base is dying. And it's really too bad because it's such a beautiful and intricate game. With the introduction of each new update the players get more and more frustrated. Though we may love or hate the content changes, what really gets everyone's goat is the lack of people to play with... and that is the core of our reason to play.. whether you are a pvper or not.
Obs, you know I love you (:)), but two weeks or four weeks is being a bit pendantic, don't you think?
More people will be playing on the already-merged servers two weeks from now?
Probably not.
The mergers accomplished very little. Lionna was light, Kain was lighter, the two combined into Aria are still light. Instead of 5-600 (or whatever low # you choose to believe) there are 800 (or whatever low # you choose to believe).
Let's rewind the tape a bit. These mergers, the ones already completed were absolutely hailed on these forums as REQUIRED and wild claims abounded of how "mergers were THE answer".
I suppose that's my point.
We originally heard from many that these current mergers were absolutely mandatory and that they woud be just the thing.
Some of us argued they would not be--and weren't very popular.
Now they've occured and accomplished **** little (if anything).
So predictably (as I'm pointing out) the same old forum trolls shout that their NEW answer is......more mergers.
NCSOFT isn't RECRUITING or ADVERSTISING.
NCSoft isn't adding valuable content for casual players in chronicle releases--particularly content for the less-than-uber players.
At this point arguing for more mergers seems to me like having a disagreement over music selection on the Titanic.
Of course the music will play (the servers will be merged again and again), but can we have no more enlightened commentary about how that will matter in the long run. Except in incidental and minor ways--mergers are simply not a significant survival strategy.
We've seen that clearly at this point.
That's how I view this scenario anyway. Sadly, arguments for and against more mergers and the relative value of more mergers are diverting energy and focus away from suggestions and concepts that might actually make a difference.
....bleh! I'm finding it harder and harder to care.
I have to disagree. Whether or not the server shows "light, medium or heavy" it is very apparent (at least on my server) that there is a huge influx of people (based on merged populations).
And as others have said, up to 4k people is light.
Though I was happy the way my server was, the merger has given an injection of "life" to everything. And as I am not a big believer in overcrowding (though I think many would also like that for the pvp options) I think the way it is is fine.
In addition, they merged the servers based on where they were. Add in another server from another location and it could screw with their ping. As I've mentioned before there is a difference for me based on the ping.
Will they never merge servers again? They probably will but it could be years from now.
I think there is gonig to be an increase in subscribers in the U.S. so in all honestly it is hard to say just 'what' they will do when it comes to the servers. Add more maybe.
The game is getting better, no doubt about it.
I sort of thought the reason behind them was to mingle alittle. Now there are less servers than before leaving more options open on what could happen. There is the profit vs cost to run on the upkeep of servers. (Personally I can't see why this would be a problem considering how depreciation works...geesh).
But with the additions of the new 'Euro' servers it is more feasable to say there are alot of people in those areas wanting to play the game. (With L2's artwork, can't blame 'em) So adding another Euro server is prolly not out of the question either.
I agree with the written above. I don't think it is going to happen for a while. And if they do do anything I think it will be to add new servers and not merge. Gracia Part One and Two. How close are they coming out together?
With the addition of ease of play I think there are going to be more people playing. Getting people to team together is not always easy. I think more solo quests or things to do may help there. I know it is an MMO but still grinding can be dull.
Game is still young and it is an MMO. With an MMO anything could really happen. A whole new refurbished game is not out of the question either. But usually another expansion shows up.
In a nutshell, dunno. "I" was not real happy with the current merger.
My advice is to get your charcters to level 40 as soon as possible. :-/ Just in case.
I logged in a few days ago only to see our three new combined servers still showing a Light Status. It sort of shocked me, i would think after all of this we would be back to Normal.
Phoenix is Normal. Right now.
(Which means it's time to swing banhammer, isn't it? :p )
I logged in a few days ago only to see our three new combined servers still showing a Light Status. It sort of shocked me, i would think after all of this we would be back to Normal.
Phoenix is Normal. Right now.
(Which means it's time to swing banhammer, isn't it? :p )
I logged in a few days ago only to see our three new combined servers still showing a Light Status. It sort of shocked me, i would think after all of this we would be back to Normal.
Phoenix is Normal. Right now.
(Which means it's time to swing banhammer, isn't it? :p )
noticed it to.. OMg merGer iT
So glad Hindemith + Gustin + Devianne weren't all three marged together then (these are the three East Coast servers). Pheonix would be difficult to get into and extremely crowded.
Another merge no thanks so don't give them any ideas please. Ive been getting disconnects alot lately after a nice long break from them which mighta been last yr till now. I've gone back to hating Giran like i did back in the old days of c2 c3 on hindemeth where you couldn't hardly move there and lagg spikes are back.
If they have to merge again please take all the bot shops and player shops from Giran and the race track and stick them in Fantasy Isle and start doing something with that piece of land please.
Fantasy Isle is a cool spot and real sad they put it in game and aren't doing anything at all with it , it's a perfect spot to stick all the stairway,hallway shops in Giran since every major town in game has free port to it.
EDITED BY ME
I'd like to OFFICIALY say server merge was nice but it brought all that negative crap i allready mentioned so i'm officially sorry i came on forums asking for them and don't get me wrong i still like them as far as seeing all the new clan tags goes and hoping they get all the disconnect bugs fixed .
Don't merge anymore servers please just do what has already been talked to death about and thats fix lineage 2's marketing and bring people into the game cuz i wanna be able to play the game without disconnecting every day at least once , it happens but now i expect to get a dc every day again after being spoiled without for a good 6 mnths or more.
I logged in a few days ago only to see our three new combined servers still showing a Light Status. It sort of shocked me, i would think after all of this we would be back to Normal.
Phoenix is Normal. Right now.
(Which means it's time to swing banhammer, isn't it? :p )
I logged in a few days ago only to see our three new combined servers still showing a Light Status. It sort of shocked me, i would think after all of this we would be back to Normal.
Phoenix is Normal. Right now.
(Which means it's time to swing banhammer, isn't it? :p )
Sorry I have to get in on this. In the past week there hasn't been a day I haven't run into at least 4 people or more playing since the merger. And this is in the low level areas. When I first started playing L2 I would see maybe two people once a week!
In the dwarf starting area the other day, right down the bottom of the town in the first grinding area, I counted at least 10 people.
I think that is a good sign that the merger worked fairly well. The mishaps were the handling of the characters during the merge. But that is another story...
I logged in a few days ago only to see our three new combined servers still showing a Light Status. It sort of shocked me, i would think after all of this we would be back to Normal.
Phoenix is Normal. Right now.
(Which means it's time to swing banhammer, isn't it? :p )
Sorry I have to get in on this. In the past week there hasn't been a day I haven't run into at least 4 people or more playing since the merger. And this is in the low level areas. When I first started playing L2 I would see maybe two people once a week!
In the dwarf starting area the other day, right down the bottom of the town in the first grinding area, I counted at least 10 people.
I think that is a good sign that the merger worked fairly well. The mishaps were the handling of the characters during the merge. But that is another story...
Well, if we're just going to pull anecdotal evidence out of the air, then I'll counter your "new players" with the fact that our clan & ally was devastated by the # of players who said "that's it" and quit.
I wouldn't begin to count the # who quit when merge landed.
I don't know the #'s and impact, and apparently neither does anyone else.
But is seems to me that Merged server A pop + server B pop = LESS than the sum of the two server's pre-merge populations.
I'll bet there was a net LOSS of total subscriptions from the mergers.
At some point we'll see actual averages again and be able to compare them to prior to the merge. Then we won't have to guess because 2/3 of my clan quit or because you happened to see 10 dwarf bots in training.