Vets vs Newbies - O_O

General Discussion Started Last reply 41 posts
Ok, so in many threads I see alot of veterans doing a great job in helping us newbies, and sharing their knowledge. Its very appreciated and I am glad to see that the community is as nice as it is.

Then there are times were the vets get a little bit fed up with the complaints and (sometimes) misunderstood statements of the newbies, and make it apparent. Its understandable and I was the same way in my previous MMO, City of Heroes.

Many of the conversations that involve the vets getting like that have to do with the leveling process... Aka the Grind! As stated in MANY threads before this the vets spent months and months reaching lvl 60, and it was hard, and they did teaming and had buffs from characters near their levels instead of BGrade buffs, ect...

It was also stated in those same threads that the new players get these buffs from B-Grades and higher to take on RB's with ease and so on. Basically saying that it is easy for us newbies... IT IS! The game changed with time as the players demanded new things and more content, and to reach those levels for the new content they wanted the leveling process had to be easier. And so it evolved into what it is today, an easy grind to lvl 50+.

Anyway, this thread is just for those of us who want to discuss how the vets view newbies and visa-versa...

~Abolished

Many of the conversations that involve the vets getting like that have to do with the leveling process... Aka the Grind!




I've been here for what 4 years and i'm a level 41 tyrant.....The game lacks mid level content.

A good example is the current state of the monster spawns. It went from a dangerous place to tumble weeds blowing around.
those aren't tumbleweeds, they're mobs that died and blew away because people stopped hunting outside of the catas.;-p

i would love to see the spawns back to what they were back in the olden days. long live the great outdoors!!!

those aren't tumbleweeds, they're mobs that died and blew away because people stopped hunting outside of the catas.;-p

i would love to see the spawns back to what they were back in the olden days. long live the great outdoors!!!



Me too, but i think that it might be a performance issue. Not sure how it works, but if the ENTIRE map was as packed with mobs as Prelude was, I think the servers would get owned.

On the Vets Vs. Newbs topic. I have played since retail launch and love new players and what they bring(more L2 for all of us). I think what happens is when someone new complains about the difficulty level of the game as a whole, there isn't much tolerance from established players as it is ALOT easier now. BUT...

B grade is the new D grade. The game is the same, just the level at which you start to really feel the grind has changed. New players are going to sh*t thier dress when they hit A grade and realize that the party is over. So they will see soon enough a small slice of what the "old timers" went through.

Welcome new people, this is my fav. mmo ever. 'Cept for EVE(but it's sci-fi so doesn't count), wanna talk about a steep learning curve. Most quit before they get thru the tutorial, lol. If you ever tire of L2's tough grind or "open" pvp, try EVE. You'll be back to "carebear" L2, lol.
WoW sets the barrier. It's the most popular mmo out there right now. And like it or not. most people who play any other mmo have most likely played wow at some point

If they can have easy leveling there they want it in their other games too.
I played eve for about 3 months, fun game but way to complicated...

B grade is the new D grade. The game is the same, just the level at which you start to really feel the grind has changed. New players are going to sh*t thier dress when they hit A grade and realize that the party is over. So they will see soon enough a small slice of what the "old timers" went through.

Same can be said about ANY MMO... Things get progressively easier as time goes on for every MMO... Its just a matter of time before hitting lvl 85 in this game is no big deal... Just like hitting lvl 50 in CoX isn't hard, or lvl 70 in WoW is FAR from hard. The players complain enough and things become easy.

~Abolished
I still consider myself a newb (non-vet). I started the end of C2 (no newbie buffs and you dropped on death) but am still only 67.

I try to help newer players with questions mostly because I am still grateful for the help I received when starting out.

As for is it easier? Um...yeah. A lot easier 1-40.

As was pointed out, 40-61 there is little reason to play unless you're in the biggest of the clans or have a half dozen close friends at your same level.
If you're casual or not in substantial clan or surrounded by friends you're going to find the game boring and slow-moving.

This doesn't appear to be changing much. Sure you'll get newbie buffs a bit longer. If anything that means you'll be farther along before you realize you can't afford any gear and decide to cheat.

I've posted again and again--make instances (not just the stupid rift) for mid-grades. Soften the raidbosses (a BIT) so it doesn't require 30 fools and 20 madmen to kill one at lvl 35. Improve the payout of the quests and spend a few hours making them interesting and making them flow better. Fix the drop tables so you aren't getting "one stem" at level 78 and you don't have to be level 50 to collect D-grade items (okay--that's a bit of an exaggeration--but not much!).
The answer for 40-61 isn't "faster"---it's improved CONTENT.

The only thing worse than taking 14 months to get to A-grade (where gear can easily cost 200 million+) is to get to A-grade in 3 months with no adena.
Might as well give the sites that sell adena a permanent shop in Giran if you're going to do that.

Content is the answer. It has been for quite some time.
I'm a casual player...sucks for this kind of game, everything runs a lot slower...

Yet I've played since Open Beta and seen, done and learn alot of things about this game

I still consider myself a newb (non-vet). I started the end of C2 (no newbie buffs and you dropped on death) but am still only 67.



Drop on death was among the reasons I quit back in C1 - well moreso the fact that you were punished so much for PvP'ing. I never understood why the developers decide to punish what was ostensibly the purpose of the game (at least according to their marketing).

And I would not have come back if they hadn't changed the PvP and item drop mechanics somewhat - honestly I think it was beyond insane the way this game was at launch.


As was pointed out, 40-61 there is little reason to play unless you're in the biggest of the clans or have a half dozen close friends at your same level. If you're casual or not in substantial clan or surrounded by friends you're going to find the game boring and slow-moving.



I really don't understand this point of view. I'm just blown away by how much they have added to the game since C1 - both in terms of additional game systems, which create complexity and interest, and also in terms of content - new maps, mobs, etc. In fact, I will throw this gauntlet down - I bet there are more places to hunt in that level range you mentioned than you would ever see on a single character going from 40 to 60. I'm 53 on my TH and go out of my way to explore new areas, and I do not feel as if I have scratched the surface. The game is so open ended. They have added a lot of quests and while the rewards aren't always great - as an oldschool pencil-and-paper rpg geek, I love to get the flavor of the backstory. And there is a lot of it.

And even setting content aside, I don't really see why someone who found levels 1 through 40 satisfying and fun would find levels 40 through 60 to be not worth playing, as someone else described them.

You don't need to be in one of the largest clans or surrounded by friends to get in a very effective duo or trio and have some fun. If I may say so, and not to rub a sore spot, but I think your viewpoint is somewhat shaded from having played on a nearly-dead server for some time.


This doesn't appear to be changing much. Sure you'll get newbie buffs a bit longer. If anything that means you'll be farther along before you realize you can't afford any gear and decide to cheat.



They aren't just extending newbie buffs. They are making herbs last longer. They are making normal xp rates higher. They are adding vitality. Those mechanics all extend past 62. However, what players who rocket to A-grade are going to get smacked with is a total inability to afford it, nor will they have any experience as to how to manage the brutal adena grind that is L2.


I've posted again and again--make instances (not just the stupid rift) for mid-grades.



This is coming in the next installment actually. ;)


Soften the raidbosses (a BIT) so it doesn't require 30 fools and 20 madmen to kill one at lvl 35.



??

I routintely joined mid 30's groups with no OOP buffs or heals that took down raid bosses - with just 9 people. And such groups form, several a night, every night on Bartz. Again I think this goes to your background on an extremely low-pop server, which has given you a different point of view.


Improve the payout of the quests and spend a few hours making them interesting and making them flow better.



Well they have done the first part of that in Gracia.


Fix the drop tables so you aren't getting "one stem" at level 78 and you don't have to be level 50 to collect D-grade items (okay--that's a bit of an exaggeration--but not much!).



No, it really isn't much of an exaggeration, and I've come to agree with you completely on this point. Just over the weekend I was hunting with a mid 50's party that decided to go to Antharas Lair for old times' sake. Every 10th mob or so dropped an Animal Bone. This didn't fully sink in until I logged onto my level 37 alt and went hunting with a clanmate in Death Pass - I was getting varnish often, and even got a durable metal plate. o.O

That's when I stopped and said - "The Devs COMPLETELY screwed this up." And it has been this way for so long that I think it is fair to say they do not understand this and never well. This point is not even about making the game faster or easier - but simply making it logical and offering some semblance of a risk/reward curve.


The only thing worse than taking 14 months to get to A-grade (where gear can easily cost 200 million+) is to get to A-grade in 3 months with no adena.



One thing that has changed with this game's community since launch is the perception of gear. These levels are the *minimum* at which you can wear that gear. But the way the game was designed at launch, it was clearly not NCsoft's intention that you would have such gear the instant you hit those levels. At launch the max level was 60, and VERY FEW players had top C grade. Most played in their high 50's with a mix of high D and low C. There were a very small number of players with some B grade armor. And there may have been one or two B grade weapons.

I don't think NCsoft intends for a first-time player to have A-grade the moment they turn 60. I think that is just a disconnect between player expectations and developers intention.


Might as well give the sites that sell adena a permanent shop in Giran if you're going to do that.



I think that's a legitimate point though.

WoW sets the barrier. It's the most popular mmo out there right now. And like it or not. most people who play any other mmo have most likely played wow at some point

If they can have easy leveling there they want it in their other games too.



Not to go on a huge tangent but this is not necessarily a smart way to go about marketing. Sometimes emulating the leader, particularly when you have no serious hope of winning a head-to-head competition with them, is just about the worst marketing strategy you can execute.

This is a niche game. NCsoft NA does not have the resources to compete seriously with WoW. NCsoft Korea will never manage to turn L2 into WoW. And even if they did, why play an inferior emulation of WoW when you could play the real thing instead?

When I talk to new players in the game, and most of them have come from WoW, I ask them why they left. The reasons for their burnout are often WoW's strengths - they think it is too easy, so they got bored. They reached max level and then felt no motivation once that treadmill was done. They didn't want to subscribe to an EQ-style raid progression. Etc.

I do believe NCsoft is doing the right thing by making the path to 60/B-grade more accessible to new players. But not because it makes the game more like WoW. But I do also believe, as Drakkos said, that NCsoft needs to think about making the game more accessible to higher level players who don't want to buy adena. They don't need to make leveling any faster but they really do need to get serious about having some semblance of logic in their loot tables.
One of the things that really gets me about how NCSoft handles NA/EU is that they don't change the game AT ALL to fit their 2 different markets... Koreans see the game much differently than we of the NA/EU NCSoft players.... For example the way the loot tables are setup... Its nearly impossible to get what you want from a mob after days of farming them... And the few people that do get what they want? Lucky!

Its disappointing to say the least... Most of us don't have days and days to farm for an item that we want... We will break down and blow most of our adena on obtaining it from another player shop... And for those of us who just don't have the adena for that? SCREWED!

I am with everyone else that say the game needs better rewards for quests... Make them all worth doing...

I would do quests at lvl 50+ if I just got B grade armor or weaponry after doing a series of quests that needed a substantial but not rediculous ammount of time to do... Mid Grade stuff for your grade armor as a quest reward? Hell yeah! Not the best but not crap either! I wish that were implimented... (And I don't mean recipes I mean already crafted stuff)

~Abolished
Well they really are catering to what newbies need and want and a more Western game in this update. The Standard Weapons have to be the most pivital change, that and giving players a fast start into the game by piledriving through 1-20 insanely fast.

Well they really are catering to what newbies need and want and a more Western game in this update. The Standard Weapons have to be the most pivital change, that and giving players a fast start into the game by piledriving through 1-20 insanely fast.



The 1-20 thing will definately help me out alot to get my future alt up faster... I am not one ot enjoy being without a few good skills... My gladiator prior to being a gladiator was probably the one exception to my tastes on that...

As for the equipment change? What is that about?

~Abolished

WoW sets the barrier. It's the most popular mmo out there right now. And like it or not. most people who play any other mmo have most likely played wow at some point

If they can have easy leveling there they want it in their other games too.



This statement is almost as flawed as your logic...
This statement is also just plain incorect;

WoW is not the "most popular" MMO by a long shot... it is most certainly the most popular MMO in the US, but the US comprises about 5% of the world's online gaming...

North Korea and Japan have the worlds two largest underground networks of fiber optics. They offer the hughest speed connections to the public in the world and new MMOs come and go weekly in both countries that have literaly millions of subscribers.

Certain countries in Europe are delegating their budgets improving the availablity of high-speed connections and fiber optic lines are now a staple in many prominent European city plans.

The US has almost no fiber optic lines running with public access... Most major university campuses and some wealthy private sector investers have fiber optcis lines but in general most US and Euro players can only hope for a standard cable line or in some cases T1 or T2 lines...

ALL of the worlds major gaming goes down in Korea and Japan where the fiber optics allow for more high speed connections.

TO say that WoW is the leading MMO in any sense is a statement of sheer ingorance, and a testament to how little people actually know about he world outside their own countries.



Anyway, back on topic: The whole Noob VS Vet deal has never been an issue to me. This is a GAME. its for fun... its not a pace to get your ya-yas out by pretending to be better than anyone else.

I've been playing sinse C1 (I missed the Open Beta and Prelude) and I don't consider myself a better or worse player than just about anyone. Every player brings something new to the table and adds to the talent pool of the game, although some add more than others, and some just add their wallets. But ultimately there is no real way so juedge how is a Vet and who is just a noob.

This game is not a game of skill... nor will it ever be. Not becouse its staggered and unbalanced between classes. Not becouse the economy set on an infrastructure that almost bars new players from gaining anything. Or becouse the gap between grades is so dramatic that skill plays no part in a 1 lvl difference from 75-76 when the 76 lvl toon has S grade gears...

Also, this game operates like most online games... you know... online... gotta be connected to play. The servers lag and you get dropped or some ones somewhere has has a faster CPU than you loose... no questions asked.

I have some of the best equipment money can buy in my PC and I lag from time to time... its gotten me killed before. Sometimes things happen, and usually at the worst possible time.

People wallets make a bigger difference than people's "talent" in this game. You think that our heros on Teon got their +14 S duals or +11 AM the legit way.... LOL no. they have +6 S and A grade sets that they ca switch between and 4 r 5 massively OEd weapons becosue they payed the adean farmers for some currency and rolled the dice. You think a player who worked for his +5 or 6 A or S stuff stands a chance? no...

in closing I guess I can only say that newbs and Vets alike should just play the game to have fun becouse trying to be better than some one else is a waste of everyone's time... in a PvP game everyones wins some and looses some, and there are too many factors involved to say you won or lost based on anything but time and chance...

(sorry for the long post)
good post imo and yeah I agree it's a game to play for fun a fact a lot of the so called end gamers forget (at least a lot of those I know) as their greed for money & power (e-ego) is more important to them then anything else..

L2 tends to bring the worst in ppl to light, it's not a game in which you can easily trust others that's a fact.
I guess you mean SOUTH Korea, not North Korea :)

Other than that, /agreed
I have been Playing for over 4 years. Started in Open Beta. and never took a break. If your just starting get out now before you get sucked in and can never get out again. :p

WoW is not the "most popular" MMO by a long shot... it is most certainly the most popular MMO in the US, but the US comprises about 5% of the world's online gaming...





Hmm, I think the only contenders that I know of are the original Lineage, Lineage 2 and Maple Story.

I have yet to see numbers of any other game that has come close or that has made as great an impact (whether you feel it's good or bad) as WoW.

And given some of the changes that I've seen L2 adopt I would say that WoW has influenced the L2 Dev's as well.

It's ok to say emphatically state that WoW is not the most "[censored] [censored] [censored]" but you have to come back with an example.


WoW sets the barrier. It's the most popular mmo out there right now. And like it or not. most people who play any other mmo have most likely played wow at some point

If they can have easy leveling there they want it in their other games too.



This statement is almost as flawed as your logic...
This statement is also just plain incorect;

WoW is not the "most popular" MMO by a long shot... it is most certainly the most popular MMO in the US, but the US comprises about 5% of the world's online gaming...

North Korea and Japan have the worlds two largest underground networks of fiber optics. They offer the hughest speed connections to the public in the world and new MMOs come and go weekly in both countries that have literaly millions of subscribers.

Certain countries in Europe are delegating their budgets improving the availablity of high-speed connections and fiber optic lines are now a staple in many prominent European city plans.

The US has almost no fiber optic lines running with public access... Most major university campuses and some wealthy private sector investers have fiber optcis lines but in general most US and Euro players can only hope for a standard cable line or in some cases T1 or T2 lines...

ALL of the worlds major gaming goes down in Korea and Japan where the fiber optics allow for more high speed connections.

TO say that WoW is the leading MMO in any sense is a statement of sheer ingorance, and a testament to how little people actually know about he world outside their own countries.

*second half cut*


http://www.mmogchart.com/charts/
That includes asia as far as I know
if you don't wanna go to that site. at least make sure to check out these charts
http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html
and
http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart7.html

That seems about right to me. Remember the numbers put up in that 1 thread, "fun facts about Lineage 2" or something along those lines, one of them said that 17 million people had tried it, worldwide, which includes trial accounts, people who don't play anymore etc.
WoW right now has around 10 million active subscribers, Active

Lineage will not be able to compete with WoW, ever. However, they aren't stupid, and they can see the huge market share they have with a single game, which was hugely successful at bringing in new people to MMO's, and they emulate that with their own game to try and get some new people in, it makes sense, to me at least.

To say wow is the leading mmo is not ignorance. to say wow is a bad game is ignorance.
L2 has had a lot of expansions, Wow has only had a single one so far (if there's another one, I somehow missed it) Which should make L2 a refined, polished game, compared to wow.

Don't mistake this as any review of Wow's quality, It's not. I like L2 better, But you can't ignore the fact that WoW is the most popular MMO around today.
Dont trust WoW accounting ... they have a habit of counting every single account that has ever played wow for a month then quit/got banned/whatever as an active account :)

That is NOT to say WoW isnt the no1 mmorg, it is. It just doesnt have 12m active subscribers like vivendi claim
Those numbers are very off. L2 has well over 2 mllion subscriptions in korea alone...
Have a link to back it up? I thought so too, But I couldn't find anything other than that.

EDIT: also even with more than 2 million in asia alone, WoW still has over 5 million subscribers in Asia, more than they have in the US and EU combined

...but in general most US and Euro players can only hope for a standard cable line or in some cases T1 or T2 lines...


dunno 'bout that. i come from a pretty much underdeveloped EU country and we get 20Mbit DL/2Mbit UL connections with no traffic limit for ~ $15/month

about the drop tables... i'd say they are exactly right. true, if you just look at the fact that a 70+ mob drops a stem it looks a little weird, but improving drops would drive item prices down. and tbh i think the prices are exactly right. if you take adena selling/buying out fo the picture (as this is smth that was never intended to be in the game) it leaves you with an elite few who can afford top gear. it would require skill in gathering adena.

i took a break from retail around C4-C5 to play a private 2x rate server with some friends where there was no buying adena/gear. you'd see most ppl running in B grade to 76 then only starting to switch to A, a few few had A grade at around 65-70 and would most likely run in it till max lvl and even fewer were the ones wearing S grade (mainly big pvp clans who had access to antharas/ high lvl rb's)
and i found it to be much less dull that way.
WoW gives away free trials like there is no tommorow(I belive they count these as subscribers/players). WoW is as popular as it is for ONE reason. You can play it on any P.O.S. computer made in the last 10 years.

WoW has not and does not do anything that games before it hadn't already done, it was just designed with incredibly low system specs so lil' Johnny can play it on his mommies Dell. This in turn opened up 3d mmo's to the genral public, who at that time could not play alot of the mainstream games out due to the steep(for the time) system requirements.

Now everybody under the age of 17 thinks that WoW invented the mmo genre and they compare EVERYTHING else to it. Its kinda sad alot of them have never even heard of a lil ole game called Ultima Online, among many others. Hell even Lineage 2 came out before WoW.

Lol, my stepdaughters PC can barely open a Jonas Brothers webpage before the second coming of Christ, but will play WoW np.

Have a link to back it up? I thought so too, But I couldn't find anything other than that.

EDIT: also even with more than 2 million in asia alone, WoW still has over 5 million subscribers in Asia, more than they have in the US and EU combined



Lol, there are 2 BILLION screamin' Chinamen(bots) playing L2 right now!

Koreans see the game much differently than we of the NA/EU NCSoft players....



It has been established repeatedly that this is not true. I understand many of us have a stereotype of Asian gamers in our heads, but there were polls when the game was new in which players were asked to identify areas needing improvement in the game. Always, feedback from Korean and NA gamers was virtually identical.

I was already tired of this stereotype/cliche four years ago.. at this point I'm *really* tired of it. So you need to do some unlearning there.

Or did you really mean to suggest (as you do later in your post) that, in Korea, it makes sense that a level 80 mob should drop the same animal bone that a level 8 mob did? Koreans are just as capable of understanding risk/reward tradeoff as we are.. it is only L2's developers that seem unwilling or unable to understand it.


I would do quests at lvl 50+ if I just got B grade armor or weaponry after doing a series of quests that needed a substantial but not rediculous ammount of time to do... Mid Grade stuff for your grade armor as a quest reward? Hell yeah! Not the best but not crap either! I wish that were implimented... (And I don't mean recipes I mean already crafted stuff)



This is not WoW. You don't do a quest for an hour and then have all your gear. Nor do you kill a raidboss and have all your gear. In L2 the economy is distributed - and I mean totally distributed. This was the explicit intention of the developers and they have stated it themselves. They did not want a game in which you had to farm a certain boss of a certain dungeon to get your gear. They did not want a game in which you had to perform a certain narrow set of tasks to get a certain required item. They wanted you to play their game, in a very open-ended manner. To accomplish that, they scattered crafting materials, all valuable, over every single mob in the whole game. So, in a sense, each and every thing that you hunt has just a tiny piece of the gear that you want.

I think it was a brilliant decision, and one of the things that makes this game unique and compelling. So would completely oppose your suggestion to hand out gear with quests - even though it sounds nice, you would be gutting the game.

The problem is the rate at which those materials drop, and specifically that higher level mobs do not drop materials in proportion to their difficulty, viz-a-viz lower level mobs.

A casual-friendly version of this game would not be one in which you do a quest and get your armor. Rather it would be one in which you could reasonably expect to obtain most of the materials you need for crafting your armor through the normal course of leveling. Do you see the distinction I'm making there?
I do, I do!

Ok, so in many threads I see alot of veterans doing a great job in helping us newbies, and sharing their knowledge. Its very appreciated and I am glad to see that the community is as nice as it is.

Then there are times were the vets get a little bit fed up with the complaints and (sometimes) misunderstood statements of the newbies, and make it apparent. Its understandable and I was the same way in my previous MMO, City of Heroes.

Many of the conversations that involve the vets getting like that have to do with the leveling process... Aka the Grind! As stated in MANY threads before this the vets spent months and months reaching lvl 60, and it was hard, and they did teaming and had buffs from characters near their levels instead of BGrade buffs, ect...

It was also stated in those same threads that the new players get these buffs from B-Grades and higher to take on RB's with ease and so on. Basically saying that it is easy for us newbies... IT IS! The game changed with time as the players demanded new things and more content, and to reach those levels for the new content they wanted the leveling process had to be easier. And so it evolved into what it is today, an easy grind to lvl 50+.

Anyway, this thread is just for those of us who want to discuss how the vets view newbies and visa-versa...

~Abolished



Good topic.

I am one of those "vets" who tries my best to help, both here on the board and in-game.

But try as I might, I won't suffer cheats and fools kindly. Not after what I've experienced with this game the last 4 years or so. Yes, waaay back then we really did walk 50 miles up hill in the snow against the wind both ways on one bad leg and with an engine block shackled to the other...and we LIKED it!

Naturally, when newbs present themselves all green and unblemished and unwilling to put in the time and do the work, well, some of us take a bit of offense to that. It's not really us talking, it's the scars.

As long as you don't come across as a boorish, impatient pissant, we'll gladly show you the ropes. Just don't show up in full S grade with ++++ skills this, and quadruple class that and ask me how to get to the second floor of Cruma. It won't go well for you. :) :)


Good topic.

I am one of those "vets" who tries my best to help, both here on the board and in-game.

But try as I might, I won't suffer cheats and fools kindly. Not after what I've experienced with this game the last 4 years or so. Yes, waaay back then we really did walk 50 miles up hill in the snow against the wind both ways on one bad leg and with an engine block shackled to the other...and we LIKED it!

Naturally, when newbs present themselves all green and unblemished and unwilling to put in the time and do the work, well, some of us take a bit of offense to that. It's not really us talking, it's the scars.

As long as you don't come across as a boorish, impatient pissant, we'll gladly show you the ropes. Just don't show up in full S grade with ++++ skills this, and quadruple class that and ask me how to get to the second floor of Cruma. It won't go well for you. :) :)



I have to agree. I just wish new players could have experienced the game when it was new. The world was just so energetic with so much going on.

Oh, and great sig... that is one of my favorite movies. Especially it being an "anti-western".

I just wish new players could have experienced the game when it was new.

Too bad they can't set aside a permanent test server for that.


Oh, and great sig... that is one of my favorite movies. Especially it being an "anti-western".



Thanks.

Can't say that I'm a big fan of all of Eastwood's movies, but Unforgiven resonates on so many levels. It's anything but a western.
About vets vs newbies. I've seen a lot of newbies get turned down by vets for groups because they don't have top gear. I've also heard time and again that clans won't help them beyond Oath Armor. Anyone else notice this?
Not me. I've noticed more established players being extremely generous toward new folk, to be honest.

Rather it would be one in which you could reasonably expect to obtain most of the materials you need for crafting your armor through the normal course of leveling.


where would that leave spoilers?


Rather it would be one in which you could reasonably expect to obtain most of the materials you need for crafting your armor through the normal course of leveling.


where would that leave spoilers?



Hanging at the end of a rope, where they belong!! Lol.

Sorry for some reason I hate dwarfs just because so many bots use em, ******ed I know.

Not me. I've noticed more established players being extremely generous toward new folk, to be honest.



I am of the same experience.... EVERY single vet player I have met has shared information of how to do something in the game that I hadn't seen before or some other random thing of generosity. One of the things that I feel alot of gamers that are new to a game lack, is the ability to ask nicely and be humble about their newbieness... Or IRL it would be called a learning disability! Yes Gamer Learning Disability!!!

Definition - Gamer Learning Disability: A lack of ability to handle being new to a game. Incapable of taking advice from a "veteran" player well, and attempts to "show off", only to fail, get lol'd at and be insulted.

(For lack of a better definition)

Someone should write a "Newbies Manners" guide or something...

~Abolished
Ah yea, it WILL be easier for us newbies from Gracia on, right?. But I lost a few characters in the past merge. So for some strange reason that works out right? Well I didn't like it! So if any vets are reading this, don't feel so bad...lol.
I remember back in 2005 when they had the first independance day event with the raid boss armies spawning outside town. I was a lvl 60 glad back then and would go to the newby towns party up all the new characters (usually only 2-3) and go out and aoe the hole army and give them all the drops. I was on Teon at the time and the new players loved it. The holloween event after that when raid armies spawned randomly around the world I would get fluded with pm's from those guys telling where the lowby armies were. I haven't had that much helping out the new players in a long time.

However I have made 3 alts this year and lvl's then all to mid 50's so far helping anyone that asked along the way. It was much more enjoyable than grinding on my main in FOD.

I remember back in 2005 when they had the first independance day event with the raid boss armies spawning outside town. I was a lvl 60 glad back then and would go to the newby towns party up all the new characters (usually only 2-3) and go out and aoe the hole army and give them all the drops. I was on Teon at the time and the new players loved it. The holloween event after that when raid armies spawned randomly around the world I would get fluded with pm's from those guys telling where the lowby armies were. I haven't had that much helping out the new players in a long time.

However I have made 3 alts this year and lvl's then all to mid 50's so far helping anyone that asked along the way. It was much more enjoyable than grinding on my main in FOD.



Sounds like a party... I wish I was around back then! ><

~Abolished
And "who" am I playing for 2 years? (C5) :P I'm happy with things I've got now and then. I still get random parties ;) I like to help the newbies, but they aren't many of them.


And these statistics somebody posted, doesn't show Asian Market ;)
I'm always happy to help new players, its fun :D

Well, as long as they arent...you know...pushy, disrespectful and demanding. As long as they have a decent attitude I'm glad to help :D


Rather it would be one in which you could reasonably expect to obtain most of the materials you need for crafting your armor through the normal course of leveling.


where would that leave spoilers?



Surely you can invision some happy middle-ground between the extremes of "I have more mats than I know what to do with" and "I feel required to roll a spoiler and/or buy adena online just to get by."

That just requires that you be a little reasonable.

Certainly I don't think anyone would advocate on behalf of a system that has pushed online currency sales harder than any game I know, just for the sake of having the few legit spoilers out there feel as thought they can get a bit larger share of the market. Right?

Then there is the fact that gear gets lost. It drops sometimes. You break it because you are trying to overenchant. Etc. As a matter of fact, if materials were cheaper, then people would be crushing crafted items, instead of store-bought items, for crystals. What could create more job security for spoilers AND crafters than that? So if we did as I suggest, there would be a greater role for spoilers, not a smaller one.

No, we should not get distracted by folks who want to cry "poor spoiler" - there is a problem with the game's loot tables. And the problem ought to have been addressed long ago. The extent to which you modify the loot tables - that could be debated. But the argument that things should stay the way they are is absurd. And frankly - even if you leveled up a spoiler (WITHOUT being forced to de-level, which is yet another sign of bad game design) - you still would not acquire all the mats you needed to craft your gear while leveling.

Finally, note that nowhere did I say that we could not improve spoiler performance also. The bottom-line objective is that the supply of materials in the game should be increased.