As a player on BARTZ I feel it is my obligation to, once again, raise the question about botting. In the last couple of months on BARTZ the situation have gone from bad to worse. Finding a place to level have gone from hard to almost impossible. Something need to change and it seems clear that the current staff is either not willing or have the resources to deal with this situation. Am I whining? You bet your bottom dollar I am but god **** it, this have gone way to far. If you could hear me scream you would here me now.
Sooner or later NCSoft will have to make a judgment call. Is it worth it to balance some bots with "real" players and ban them at a acceptable rate so they keep buying new accounts or will almost all real players quit due to the current situation? If most real players quit, the bots are going with them and it's Game Over!
I am positive that none of the Staff working with Lineage 2 is playing it anymore (I don't blame them, who want's to bring work home?). If they were they would know about the infestation that is going on. If they are still playing it someone needs to be sacked for not handling the situation better.
Here is my suggestion in what could be done. Re-organize the entire L2 Staffs schedule to allow for 2h/day in policing the servers on REGULAR toons (And I mean everyone working there, bring in the **** Janitor to help out). It seems clear they can not show up on GM toons.
The Lineage 2 Management is digging a hole here, question is, how far can you dig before it all caves in? Ornery and Omega needs to be held responsible for letting it get this far and if that means letting them go, so be it.
+1 before lock and honestly.. I agree and also kinda defend them (I know, oh clutch the pearls).
The main issue is that NCNA does not have any power - it all comes from NCK - perfect example is SEA - that was the way that NCNA should have, but hindsite is 20/20.
But a long time ago, I thought of an event - "Win a trip to NCSoft to help ban botters" - but it never happend....
Sooner or later NCSoft will have to make a judgment call.
- The game has been out since 2004
- These types of threads have been created since 2004
- Most of the players have accepted the situation since it's been par for the course for almost half a decade
I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying NCsoft endorses "automation". I'm just saying that this has been the reality of L2 and absolutely everything points to it remaining that way.
Sooner or later NCSoft will have to make a judgment call.
- The game has been out since 2004
- These types of threads have been created since 2004
- Most of the players have accepted the situation since it's been par for the course for almost half a decade
I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying NCsoft endorses "automation". I'm just saying that this has been the reality of L2 and absolutely everything points to it remaining that way.
The more sophisticated bot programs have not existed since 2004.
+1 before lock and honestly.. I agree and also kinda defend them (I know, oh clutch the pearls).
The main issue is that NCNA does not have any power - it all comes from NCK - perfect example is SEA - that was the way that NCNA should have, but hindsite is 20/20.
But a long time ago, I thought of an event - "Win a trip to NCSoft to help ban botters" - but it never happend....
:)
Why would a thread rasing concers about how a management team is handling a thread be locked?
And seriously, that NCNA does not make all the decisions should not impact their ability to ban people which I highly doubt that it does.
Matilda, let's assume you're a GM and i'm not playing by the rules. pls prove it to me.
cause if u can't and you ban me, i'ma sue NC for not delivering a product i paid for, for no good reason.
what i'm trying to say is everyone points @ NC for supporting bots, but noone ever stops to think that maybe they can't do squat about it.
+1 before lock and honestly.. I agree and also kinda defend them (I know, oh clutch the pearls).
The main issue is that NCNA does not have any power - it all comes from NCK - perfect example is SEA - that was the way that NCNA should have, but hindsite is 20/20.
But a long time ago, I thought of an event - "Win a trip to NCSoft to help ban botters" - but it never happend....
:)
Why would a thread rasing concers about how a management team is handling a thread be locked?
And seriously, that NCNA does not make all the decisions should not impact their ability to ban people which I highly doubt that it does.
Well, first off, if you were really serious about this you would not be making your case on a player forum. The official player forum no less.
You would be drafting letters to the management of NC NA, NC Korea and probably figuring out ways to reach the stockholders.
All of them would be cc'd as well.
Heck you could even become a stockholder yourself and have a voice of sorts.
But a game forum? nah. Just a place to voice frustration.
Personally, I point the finger not at Ornery and Omega, but right back at the player community. Were it not for the players who feel the need to cheat (be it by botting, buying their adena, etc), we would not be having this discussion.
So yes, while they can ban the bots, so long as the players continue to want to take the easy ways out there will be bots.
Consider that, if you're willing to actually think.
However not everyone cheats and bots, and only some of the bots do it for ingame power, many bots do it to make adena to sell to players to make real world profit and no matter how cheap it is, that's how they make their income, that's how they pay the bills, that's how they are able to keep running this...business, and they are getting away with it more and more easily.
Matilda, let's assume you're a GM and i'm not playing by the rules. pls prove it to me.
cause if u can't and you ban me, i'ma sue NC for not delivering a product i paid for, for no good reason.
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what i'm trying to say is everyone points @ NC for supporting bots, but noone ever stops to think that maybe they can't do squat about it.
Since the EULA gives NC full freedom to do as they please with any suspicious accounts, it appears they are not doing enough to give a good impression to the legit player base.
It's anyone's guess why. My guess is their corporate bureaucracy, made in some Korean offices, does not allow "ban on the spot" actions but requires them to go through a time consuming procedure (logs, db queries, etc).
I may be right, I may be wrong, it does not matter a single bit: Since they are not telling us, there is no point in speculation and I agree with the forum rules that these discussions go nowhere.
Matilda, the game, the management, the bot situation... all are what they are. Read Jacent's post above, let it sink in for good and if you are still angry go out with some friends and have some fun.
Sovrath's post was the best, but after all these years it would seem futile to even bother with that route. Just one player doing that means nothing. But get most of the players' to sign your letters and you have a chance.
Matilda, when you get to the point that you can't take any more, just quit. That's what I will do. We like/love this game, but we must be realists and think if we like the game that L2 was intended to be or, the game that we *actually* play. There lies the difference.
I am with you. Hindegust has considerable problem too. And just last night my Dwarfy got her first adena pm -- after a long time. :mad:
I read something really nice in a sig in [censored] forums.
"New defination of legit:Supervising your bot" .
I guess we will have to deal with that ...
tough luck, after 4 years the game is dependant on bots for economy to function. IMO ncsoft knows every single person that has ever logged in with a bot. And because they know that they realize that if they banned all of them NA would go to 500 active accounts (and their income would go to zero). So learn to live with the bots, everybody else has, and if you cant go wow, everything is instanced there you wont see bots, they got places to hide
yeah cause I m not some delusional lowbie thinking they can go spoil the 6000 cbp they will need to craft an s80 wep. I know full well that most of that will come from my buy shop, and the people selling it to me will be bots with large stocks.
Bots got a stranglehold on mats, mats are the basis of the economy since full drops are nonexistant.
manor gives me 25 mithril alloy/ day if I sell every single fruit a castle can buy. That means I d have to spend 3 months selling all fruits to a specific castle to get the mith alloy I need. See NCsoft in all it's wisdom didnt include a minimum buyback price for crops.
Besides that, I m almost 81, I got no manor/spoil options on my main that will get me the mats I need, what you are suggesting Is I stop playing my main for 3 months and go around playing 40 lvl scavvies spoiling cbp and manoring coal. Sure. I mean why would any sane person do that when you can sell windstones and just buy the cbp off the bots
yeah cause I m not some delusional lowbie thinking they can go spoil the 6000 cbp they will need to craft an s80 wep. I know full well that most of that will come from my buy shop, and the people selling it to me will be bots with large stocks.
Bots got a stranglehold on mats, mats are the basis of the economy since full drops are nonexistant.
Did you tried craft S80? Believe me, CBP is nothing compared to S80 recipe/parts.
Consider this - now lot of materials is wasted, when ppl OE A/S items. No bots = no ebuy adena = nobody or very few ppl can OE A/S stuff.
Btw, if you party with spoiler all the way 76 - 80 (not where xp is best, but where good materials spoil), you will have enough materials for S80. For few set...
Matilda, let's assume you're a GM and i'm not playing by the rules. pls prove it to me.
cause if u can't and you ban me, i'ma sue NC for not delivering a product i paid for, for no good reason.
what i'm trying to say is everyone points @ NC for supporting bots, but noone ever stops to think that maybe they can't do squat about it.
1. They can check if gameguard is running.
2. They can see that the commands that you use to move around isn't 100% same as the one the client sends.
3. They can spawn some items in your inventory and then ask you to tell them the color of the icon.
4. If you are afk then can port you around and see how you react.
...
...
the list of things they can do to verify if you are braking the EULA is endless.
my favorite way of seing if someone is botting is to see if they stop 2 steps from every single mob before they attack.
the botted autofollow is also very easy to see...the chars in bot mode doesn't follow the one that runs in front.
they run directly to the point the one in front runs to.
you might often have seen the ones on follow sudenly turn and run directly into the wall when the one in front makes a 90 degree turn to run down the coridor.
NCSoft needs to ban bots on a daily basis and not once every major update or major event.
recipe and parts are part of my exp, cbp and the other mats arent. And I did play a spoiler, he's 74, I used him to get the mats to craft S grade. Now I have to roll a new spoiler to get the mats to get s80? sure it's gonna happen.
and yes I have crafted s80 boots and failed gloves
Getting the oricalcum and leonards are the worst part of s80 cant spoil them and the drop rate on them is really really low.
Most of those mats you buy will be from bots that xp 24hours a day in chromatic highlands.
Really I dont see why they should waste all there time going around trying to figure out who is botting and who is not so they can ban a few selected people a day and in the end really acomplish nothing at all. If they truely wanted to get rid
of farmers and bots they could do it very easily.
Most farmers that are actual farmers are using proxys to connect to the lineage 2 server so it shows them connecting as a american IP adress instead of there chines IP. They Do that because NC was banning chines IP adress's. They could easily block using proxys with the l2 client if they wanted to.
That alone would get rid of most true famers.
As for bots it would be alot easyer to block the bot programs. Then to keep banning bots.
The bot programs that people use need to manipulate the l2.exe file in order to work. Simple changes that could be done every tuesday would stop the use of these bot programs working with the l2 client. Like Slight changes to the l2.exe such as change of file size, diferent Encription and alot more. Yea the bot program companys could probably figure out the changes in a few days but the changes would be so easy to do they could do it every tuesday easily.
as for the bots that dont use the game client at all there probably allready easily detectable.
It really just doesnt make sense to keep bailing the water out of the boat instead of fixing the hole
Your fighting a battle already lost. The people that buy adena is why bots are here in the first place. and with the sudden upshot of bots all of a sudden tells me people are buying even more adena.
just do like me hit cancel on your subscription. :(
actually those are the lazy ppl as most of the times ppl just run their own bot crew to farm adena for them and lets not forget the ppl who bot to hit max lvl, have oe 10+ skillz & 3 75+ subs for the sub passives on main..
w/e NC Soft isn't doing anything to fix those issues, the petition system is nothing but a placebo to keep the few legit players happy
ps, Ashley I beat you to it ;) another week then no more posts from me here ^^
what you are suggesting Is I stop playing my main for 3 months and go around playing 40 lvl scavvies spoiling cbp and manoring coal. Sure. I mean why would any sane person do that when you can sell windstones and just buy the cbp off the bots
I'm certain you're a clever person and thus you understand what's the difference between us: your way to S80 crafting involves bots as intermediates for buying the needed materials. Mine leaves them out, even if that means time from my main's levelling will be lost in order to achieve it.
I don't blame you for using bots' shops to get your mats. You would *have to* follow my method for crafting your gear, if bots --real farmers and players' trains alike-- weren't here in a first place.
just do like me hit cancel on your subscription. :(
ps, Ashley I beat you to it ;) another week then no more posts from me here ^^
thats sad. :(
Well what else are we to do?
Alot of us are feed up....
It's like that issue we have. You can't train then, pk them, and it feels as reporting them doesn't do any good. We are left with only one recourse to vote with our pocket. :(
the only way to remove bots from game is that NCSOFT starts to offer the seiling of adena for a fee.
They would still get money from the player base that need to cheat. So it could conteract the demand from NCNA to keep a certain % of bots online to make ends meate.
Until they start offering the servic3e, they will always be here and will never totally disapear for so many reasons expressed by so many players over the years.
Im not saying that cheating is ok, but we do agree that the ppl who use the bot services are the ones that feel they need to cheat to be the best... So with that said, im stating that NCSoft should just take that market over themselves and be rid of bots...
But then again, if bots disapear, are we capable of dealing with the problems it will cause us?
Like farming for own mats, from hard to reach places...etc...
I duno, seams like a 2 hedge sword to me that bot question... I guess we could overcome that, but im not sure sometimes... :(
the only way to remove bots from game is that NCSOFT starts to offer the seiling of adena for a fee.
They would still get money from the player base that need to cheat. So it could conteract the demand from NCNA to keep a certain % of bots online to make ends meate.
Until they start offering the servic3e, they will always be here and will never totally disapear for so many reasons expressed by so many players over the years.
Im not saying that cheating is ok, but we do agree that the ppl who use the bot services are the ones that feel they need to cheat to be the best... So with that said, im stating that NCSoft should just take that market over themselves and be rid of bots...
But then again, if bots disapear, are we capable of dealing with the problems it will cause us?
Like farming for own mats, from hard to reach places...etc...
I duno, seams like a 2 hedge sword to me that bot question... I guess we could overcome that, but im not sure sometimes... :(
Cheers!!
we have no need for bots. ever!
If they were all gone then all the BH and WS will start 2 enjoy they class again and will supply the needs of matts and armor and weapons. right now they are put pretty much out of business and have no reason to level they mains. I know tons of BH and WS that have rerolled and would gladly go back 2 they dwarf if they could make money they way they were made 2 make money. hell I would even sub a BH 2 help out.
I have way 2 many matts to even agree for 1/2 a second that we need bots. NO WE DON"T NEED BOTS FOR A MARKET!.
the only ones that need BOTS for a MARKET are the sorry [censored] that help them 2 be here in the first place becasue they are 2 lazy to do something about it them selfs.
We didn't need BOTS and farmers in Prelude and we don't need them now.
I agrree with you Ash, we dont need bots for market, but i also know how lazy most ppl are that play and i duno if al that could, would step up to the plate and do their thang....
Ive got BH ready to go, im not worried i luve seeding n spoiling.. Im all good..... but 2 BH for entire server, is guna be awsome for us Ash, we can charge crazy prices for our mats :D, but we would need much much more.
Thats where i think we would fell short a litle. :(
As a player on BARTZ I feel it is my obligation to, once again, raise the question about botting. In the last couple of months on BARTZ the situation have gone from bad to worse. Finding a place to level have gone from hard to almost impossible. Something need to change and it seems clear that the current staff is either not willing or have the resources to deal with this situation. Am I whining? You bet your bottom dollar I am but god **** it, this have gone way to far. If you could hear me scream you would here me now.
Sooner or later NCSoft will have to make a judgment call. Is it worth it to balance some bots with "real" players and ban them at a acceptable rate so they keep buying new accounts or will almost all real players quit due to the current situation? If most real players quit, the bots are going with them and it's Game Over!
I am positive that none of the Staff working with Lineage 2 is playing it anymore (I don't blame them, who want's to bring work home?). If they were they would know about the infestation that is going on. If they are still playing it someone needs to be sacked for not handling the situation better.
Here is my suggestion in what could be done. Re-organize the entire L2 Staffs schedule to allow for 2h/day in policing the servers on REGULAR toons (And I mean everyone working there, bring in the **** Janitor to help out). It seems clear they can not show up on GM toons.
The Lineage 2 Management is digging a hole here, question is, how far can you dig before it all caves in? Ornery and Omega needs to be held responsible for letting it get this far and if that means letting them go, so be it.
Respectfully
Matilda
This is a vicious never ending circle of legit people vs unlegit and believe it or not both have valid arguements.
Legit player:
- Botters ruin the game (always higher level and afk)
- Ebayers ruin the game with all their OE'd gear
- Every single spot is crawling with farmers
Unlegit player:
- Grinding is boring as hell and takes months to level
- You have to be a "no lifer" to get anywhere end game
- Market is broken (forced to ebay)
This can all be summed up in one paragraph though:
If you bot you are scum and can't handle the grind.
If you are legit you are a no lifer.
In the end there is no solution. There really isn't. You ban all the botters and farmers, you are left with "no lifers" and "roleplayers". You leave botting and farming rampant, all the legit players move on to other games and you are left with botters and farmers who will eventually follow them.
There is only one thing to do. Play the game for what you find it fun, and move on to something else when it stops being fun for you.
You can't blame NCSOFT for it, it's just how it is today.
ps, Ashley I beat you to it another week then no more posts from me here ^^
Are you leaving, Draecke? :(
Yeah, haven't been playing the last 3 weeks and Yesterday I only logged in to see how the Main/Sub change went.. I do look good as a lolelf hehe
My breaking point was just before the mergers after some political caused drama in which friendship was proved to be of lesser value then afk botting.. let's keep it at the common fact that there are ppl in this game that will do anything to stay on top regardless of how they do it.. my mistake was to think my so called friends were any different..
When NC Soft starts banning everyone who uses walker/l2aim etc. I might be coming back as I do love this game so who knows ^^"