It's basically the end of the week for the first week of Chaotic Throne 2 Gracia part 1.
So, what this thread is about if for "constructive" feedback on your experience using Vanguard and/or Inquisitor transformation.
<ul type="square"> What it is like. How is it different from your normal class. How do you like it. If you think it was a good or bad new skill. Suggestion that could make it better but not abusive... (A.K.A. overpowered)
I would love to hear your stories, but please lets keep this thread as constructive as possible. Fun is always appreciated. ;)
ok so: played lvl 43 paladin, hunted in EV, used a 2hBlunt with Health. Dwarven Hammer if you must know, and full plate+4/3/3/3
i like it. works good to solo with, as i can maintain good pdef and keep myself alive with VR and normal heal potions if necessary. but as a paladin hunting solo, i really do need a tiny power boost. just maybe 200-300 more skill power. it will boost my damage by a small but not overpowered amount.
played level 56-57 SE, in Demon with +8 homu/acu....
inquisitor works just fine for solo. but for duo i do need A heal. i am not asking much, just normal Greater heal. even a lower power GH. i need SOMETHING though. although i guess a good aug can fix that.
all in all, i think even if they stayed the way they are, i like them. wont stop using them. i rate both stances as awesome.
Been using Vanguard on a 44 SK with +8 Spirit*Raids and I can say, it's almost as much damage as my Gladiator or BD were doing at the same level. The only problem I have with Vanguard is you get locked out from certain skills, in the case of the SK, Sting and Hex, which are both pretty integral.
So far it doesn't seem super impressive, but it's very nice in the fact that it gives an extra tank something to do during a fight, and the attack skills themselves are pretty nice burst damage, even if they do turn off your autoattack.....
Well Vanguard feet like a glove for my tk, the ammount of normal damage is not all the big but the skills giving 700~900 damage + overhit its very good.
What i could change in it:
1-Be able to transform with a pet summoned. Its very anoying that u must summon the pet first.
2- For TK enable the use of cure bleed/poison with poison now eating all you hp in no time the skills beacame a lot usefull elemental heal helps a lot too.
3- This one is just to looks cool, would be nice that when transformed the aspect of the armor change.
How is it different from your normal class.
Good to be able to solo for a change
How do you like it.
I like it alot
If you think it was a good or bad new skill.
Very good skill
Suggestion that could make it better but not abusive... (A.K.A. overpowered)
Solo I could need a weak healing skill (self heal), but in a duo with another char in Inquisitor mode at herb droping places it's a dream come true.
I haven't tested Inquisitor out on my EE cuz frankly, I don't care if I ever get another xp point on her (as long as I maintain current level. :p)
I did test it out on my level 61 (deleveled from 62 a while back) SE and it works awesome. Wearing NM robes and a +6 homu I 2-shot everything up in the devestated castle area. Actually, I could nearly 1-shot them, taking them down to like 1/4 hp or less in just one nuke so that I could just whack them with my sword for the rest. Got quite a few magic crits (w/o wild magic on even!) Casting speed seems to be very fast (especially considering she's a dark elf wearing NM.)
I'm not going to complain about the mp because between herbs and invo I seemed to keep it up pretty well (and I didn't even take any mp pots with me.) Lack of heals are solved the way any solo DD solves that problem - GHP.
Compared to my SpS - who duoed there with this same SE several years ago - and my glad sub - who duoed there w/ a WC - the SE killed the mobs a LOT faster. The SpS needed 2 full nukes to take down those mobs compared to the SE's 1 and a half nukes (or 1 and a few whacks). And although it's hard to compare melee to nuker, my glad took a lot more time to kill the same mobs.
I actually really enjoyed playing in the Inquisitor stance. It almost makes me want to try it out on my Saint. I think it's an awesome addition for healers, I just really wish it had been this way from the beginning. It would have been so nice to be able to solo like this when I was leveling my EE up. I wouldn't have had to spend the money it costs to support a second account (Spellsinger) to help level up my main. Of course, I'm sure NCsoft prefers it that way... they got my 2+ years of subscription fees out of the SpS. ;/
Of course - DE have much more int than plain elves. SpS is only good because of very high casting speed.
Also I suggest you to replace your NM robes with Demon robes for the inquisitor build - you'll hit even harder. It's kind of a must since you can't modify int on healer classes.
it's like a transformation, but without your look change. it brings for me some nuker skills (i'm ee) and leaves invocation and wild magic... that's it.
How is it different from your normal class.
as you see, it's completely unlike my 'normal' class.
How do you like it.
dunno, still didn't use it for exp. i have a party all the time.
If you think it was a good or bad new skill.
it's transformation, not a skill.
Suggestion that could make it better but not abusive... (A.K.A. overpowered)
it's useful for SE's but seems some useless for others.
Also I suggest you to replace your NM robes with Demon robes for the inquisitor build - you'll hit even harder. It's kind of a must since you can't modify int on healer classes.
Yeah... no thanks. She's an alt, who I never play and never will play again. Only had her to emp my SpS every 20 minutes when I used to play SpS / EE. SpS account is cancelled = no need for SE.
Only reason she has any equipment at all is cuz I just had that NM robe set and homu extra. I do have demon in a wh on some character somewhere, but I have no reason to play this character and thus no reason to waste my time digging demon up. I just wanted to test out Inquisitor on a class other than my 78 Saint.
Anyway, I don't believe that Demon would be better, in fact, I strongly believe that in this case, NM tops demon. Although Demon gives more m.atk, I'm sure it would not make her 1 shot mobs that she is currently 2 shotting. The mobs would still be a 2-shot. Also, she gets extra mp regen w/ NM, which she would need since she can't be recharged. And casting speed seemed to be extremely fast, so that's not suffering too much. Plus the difference btwn Demon and NM casting speed is only 1 WIT. Also, remember that Demon has -HP, which would not be good for an SE in Inquisitor mode. Overall, I don't see any benefits to going Demon over NM in this case.
i am finding some funky things out about inquistor and Magic in general: it seems the Higher your Matk, the more variance in Magic Damage. i.e. 1600 matk (demon) often gives me 400+ damage variance.
whereas in BW or something less potent my matk drops to lesser levels (around 960) and i get only 250~ damage swing.
its starting to look like consistent damage = lesser Matk levels.
7x SK with Dama*Tallum is nice in Varka with 6x Nuker and we [censored] **** I <3 Vanguard. Stupid that so many skills are disabled though, only shield bash, shield stance, or w/e should be, nothing else Oo.
Nuked in the Cemetary with my 56 SE today, rocking out a vanilla homunk with karmian robes. Newbie buffs and my own Empower was letting me put the hurt on the mobs with 2 shots max, every 10 mobs or so was a 1 shot (m crit I assume)
With the vitality system in place I was getting a ridiculous amount of xp and my bar was flying up like it used to when I was in my twenties :p
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What it is like. --- It's really nice that it transforms quickly back and forth. It's really nice that no one knows if you are in it. And it's awful purdy!! transformation animation.
How is it different from your normal class. --- Well, I can actually do damage on someone/thing that isn't undead! so it's very different.
How do you like it. --- I love that I have it as an option. I love that the 79+ daggers that hit me in clan hall get astounded when I transform and hit them for 1k+ damage :) "Oh, she can hit back now!"
If you think it was a good or bad new skill. --- I think it is absolutely fabulous. It's about time. I have always wanted something like this.
Suggestion that could make it better but not abusive... (A.K.A. overpowered) --- Ummm......
Another information I've discovered about the Stances: You can't start a duel while transformed. You have to be in normal state, accept/request the duel, then transform.
I have both TK (alt) and EE (main). Haven't tried it much on the TK, because I'm not sure I wanna get her an extra weapon (she's an alt, after all), but maybe if I start playing her more often I will.
On the EE (lvl 66), I kept my +3 Stick of Faith with Mana Up, and Majestic Robes. I'm in awe that I could do the entire Lidia von Hellman quest in FotD alone, with just a few healing potions and magic haste potions. So, the Inquisitor Stance is a totally liberating experience for a healer. I don't as much damage as a regular nuker, but at least I'm less dependent on others to move around the game safely.
The skills are also great for places where mobs are already sacred weak, like Fields of Massacre, Cemetery, and Ancient Battlegrounds (I do pole parties there with clannies, and in Inquisitor, 1 or 2 AoEs usually takes out an entire pull).
I have to admit I wish we got some kind of healing skill (even if only self-heal, even my SpS can rely on her lowbie Battle Heal, if things get nasty).
On the EE (lvl 66), I kept my +3 Stick of Faith with Mana Up, and Majestic Robes. I'm in awe that I could do the entire Lidia von Hellman quest in FotD alone, with just a few healing potions and magic haste potions.
...
I don't as much damage as a regular nuker, but at least I'm less dependent on others to move around the game safely.
I did that quest without Inquisitor back then, mostly alone. I also feel much safer to travel, alone or in party, when I have trances, heals and PR.
But, well, I value Acumen over Mana Up, and DC over Majestic.
Also I suggest you to replace your NM robes with Demon robes for the inquisitor build - you'll hit even harder.
You won't - according to the known stats calculator.
And don't forget that NM has 12% bigger MP pool. Which matters a lot for an SE, who cannot be recharged, lacks BtM, so mostly relies on herbs for MP management.
What it is like.
Best thing ever. I like it so much that my Next Sub is a DA I just wish I could sub SK.
How is it different from your normal class.
It's like a Transformation but you look like your self. So it has some of the Transformation dislikes like you have 2 Transform before you summon your pet. you getlike 2 to 4 of your normal skills and them transformation skills that are nice.
How do you like it.
LOVE IT one of the Best things in this Update
If you think it was a good or bad new skill.
VERY good new skill anyone that think it's bad please delete your account :p
Suggestion that could make it better but not abusive... (A.K.A. overpowered)
make it so you can summon your pet/summons before or after transformation. Add more skills from your main would be bad and will make you over powered. just think of a Tank+Glad and you get my meaning.
PS. don't ask me how the dots end up outside the post I just used notepad to edit the post and it happened......go figure.
1- Vanguard on a TK is different from the way I normally solo, but it still plays like a TK. It's very nice. I was impressed with how much power I had.
2- It's different because it relies on a transformation as opposed to just giving us the needed skills. Because of this, we do not have access to some important skills like Entangle, Cure Poison/Bleed, Arrest, Ultimate Defence, or Elemental Heal.
3- I like that I can kill stuff fast now. My mdef stays the same and my pdef is still pretty high. My patk goes way up, so I'm a force to be reckoned with. I don't like that they made it a transformation however.
4- Overall I think it's a good skill. It could have been implemented better.
5- To improve, I merely suggest that they increase its casting speed so I can switch out and in during emergencies.
How is it different from your normal class
can't heal can't sleep mobs
How do you like it
I don't like it - it's uselss
If you think it was a good or bad new skill
Bad skill
Suggestion that could make it better but not abusive... (A.K.A. overpowered)
EE/Bish don't need it.
FYI, as an EE, I (and many BISHs) can just solo hero rift rooms all day long with oop SE/PP buffs with my(ee/bish's) turn undead, which usually one shot most mobs inside hero rift rooms easy, and get the kind of exp other class (especially SEs) can only dream of. Why would I need inquisitor?
Rifting is really a 76+ skill, since the Turn Undead needs to be enchanted for it to one shot. And doing the rift day in and day out, yes, is good xp/sp, however it's nice to be able to get out of that place ^^ and go for other xp, if you know what I mean. It also makes it possible to do Pagan's, to kill the Triols, instead of having to pull it outside and lock the door....
I know Anti-bot is just a trouble maker, but why exactly should EE and Bishops be exempted from this skill? It's liberating. Of course, now we all want a Divine weapon... all that money wasted on water/fire! omg! haha.
Inquisitor is just a big joke, now healers can do dmg like nukers in pvp
Vanguard stance is just better than nothing, on high lvls is rly useless dont give a [censored] of dmg more, jsut the skills r not bad, still they drain too much mp.
Inquisitor is C-grade skill. Rift levelling is 70+.
Also I wonder if lvl 80+ Inquisitor's Turn Undead lands on Hellbound mobs.
I seriously doubt there is a problem there. In fact, it seems to me that Inquisitor offers some advantage vs. normal nukes in that the nukes level with your character level. If what I heard is correct, a level 76 healer has a lower level Divine Punishment than a lvl 79 (I think I have lvl 36 DIvine Punishment, and it's power 102). It stands to reason that the nuke is considered a lvl 79 skill at that power, and standard nukes don't gain that benefit unless enchanted to a certain level.
Just say you dont know how to use it well, vanguard gives you a lot more dps full buffed and skills that do more then 900 dmg to mobs and powerfull overhit that can make you own toons of xp per mob.
You dont like? ok dont use, go ahead giving 300 damage without a good critical rate and giving a poor overhit with tribunal soloing or praying for people invite you to party if there is another tanker already.
Inquisitor is C-grade skill. Rift levelling is 70+.
Also I wonder if lvl 80+ Inquisitor's Turn Undead lands on Hellbound mobs.
I seriously doubt there is a problem there. In fact, it seems to me that Inquisitor offers some advantage vs. normal nukes in that the nukes level with your character level.
That's what I'm asking about. Is it possible just to switch to Inquisitor instead of highly o/eing the "normal" lethal, and still have it land on top-level mobs?
Inquisitor is great, perfect addition to the healers classes. It allows them to take a DD role should they choose to do so, but if you want to be a healer/buffer, you can change back.
Vanguard I have a few problems with. Don't be me wrong, it is great, but I would like to see a few changes:
1. Allow the option of using duels or a 2-h sword to all tank classes. A.K.A. I would like to use my +4 Dragon Slayer on my SK.
2. Allow the use of a few more fighter skills with the vanguard transformation. Sting for the SK, the heal/cure for the TK, the paladin could use one of his holy attacks. Of course they shouldn't be able to use all their skills, but a few key battle skills would be nice. I think the DA is good, but the others could use a little more.
Both of these additions though are great, NCsoft gets a gold star for up-date.
Inquisitor is just a big joke, now healers can do dmg like nukers in pvp
Vanguard stance is just better than nothing, on high lvls is rly useless dont give a [censored] of dmg more, jsut the skills r not bad, still they drain too much mp.
Result=NC soft LOL
With 750 range, 2 of 3 of the classes can't be recharged and the survivability is a bit sketchy. Cry Much?
At level 43 it's way more SP than I can spare. So I give up on some upgrades and get it, or I leave it for a few levels. Hence why I want some more info before spending.
At level 43 it's way more SP than I can spare. So I give up on some upgrades and get it, or I leave it for a few levels. Hence why I want some more info before spending.
Pretty darn sure it will help you grind faster than any other skills you can buy at lvl 43... I'd say it is well worth it.
I'm mainly duo-ing with my gf (glad) so I'm guessing it's gonna help there too yea?
Pally brings very little to the table when you talk about DDing. Glady it horrible at grinding in the lower levels as well, so you need to do everything you can to increase your damage. A 2-h sword with good DD skills will certainly help if you ask me.
Inquisitor is C-grade skill. Rift levelling is 70+.
Also I wonder if lvl 80+ Inquisitor's Turn Undead lands on Hellbound mobs.
I seriously doubt there is a problem there. In fact, it seems to me that Inquisitor offers some advantage vs. normal nukes in that the nukes level with your character level.
That's what I'm asking about. Is it possible just to switch to Inquisitor instead of highly o/eing the "normal" lethal, and still have it land on top-level mobs?
I can't say for sure because A) I haven't tried Inquisitor with an EE or Bishop, and B) I can't log in to ask around at the moment, but I would check the level of Turn Undead granted to EE and Bish in Inquisitor and compare to the standard maximum level. For example, if a lvl 79 EE/Bish has a higher level of Turn Undead in Inquisitor than in normal stance, then that could very well mean that it is more effective in Inquisitor.
Inquisitor works in fields only far as I can tell and only if those field mobs are "mage" friendly (aka a mob that does not need more then 4 spellcasts to kill).
* Cata's mobs: No (even more so as dark blue magic resist mobs can be an issue getting those killed at all before you run out of HP.)
* Kerta Orcs and Varka Silenos: No
* Blazing Swamp: Doable (green/white at 76)
* FotD: Doable (blueish/green at 76)
* VoS: no idea as I did not try past the entrance. Besides far as I know they are holy resistant so I would assume the Inquisitor cast is kinda useless in strength.
* MoS: same deal as VoS I would imagion.
* Pagans: Forget it. The entrance mobs alone were difficult at best.
* ToI: these mobs I would not call "mage friendly" so I did not even try that place.
* Hot Springs: no tested as of yet.
* WoA: not tested yet.
Tested this on a L76 Shiliens Saint (fully buffed with SE/Shilien Saints buffs). The robe/weapon setup of this Saint are a Maj robe set + Spirit Eye + blessed spiritshot A (lacked DC robes at the time of testing to see if that would help even the odds.)
True, but irrelevant. The question is whether or not the Turn Undead skill in Inquisitor eventually surpasses the level/effectiveness of the standard (unenchanted) Turn Undead.
I finally got Vanguard on my lvl 43 TK sub and I realized my p.attack doesn't go up. I have skills for two handers but nothing for duals. Does my stats change later on or at what lvl do the dual skills come in handy? I don't see much change in my stats besides my passive including 2 hander/dual sword masteries and my defense dropping a 100 pts.
My main weapon is a clean SLS with +3 FP Shield and for the Vanguard I'm using the two-handed Orcish sounding one (can't remember the name) which I got from exchanging with a newbie weapon voucher - at no extra cost.
In my normal stance I lost against an HE of similar level as he kept stunning me (even with my +4 CON) and popping off double shots before I could get in and stun him. However in the Vanguard stance, for some strange reason, his stuns didn't land as much. My CON was unchanged and I didn't see any information regarding a lower chance of stuns etc.. Therefore as soon as I got close to him, my new two-handed skills ripped through his CP like a hot knife through butter!
I'm really liking this stance for PvE and PvP and I think that unless I'm in a group with some high DPS characters, I'll be only switching to Paladin mode for the kinky self buffs.
Did you selfbuff deflect arrow, sounds wrong that he landed stun so much given your tattoo setup and the fact that you are a tank. He should be out of mp way before you get even close to dying...
I had full Adventure's buffs and Deflect Arrow, didn't bother with the 360 toggle as I wasn't expecting any backstabbing.
After thinking about it now, maybe he was just a little higher than the 45 he claimed to be. His bow had a nice glow (+8) but I really don't think that over-enchanting bows improves the stun land rate.
If he was closer to 51 than he claimed then I'm even more impressed that my Vanguard stance completely ripped through his HP. I hit him what must have been 7 or 8 times with the skill and completely drained his HP and CP. I didn't do a single normal attack as he was kiting and I had time for the re-use to finish.
I don't know where you got the idea of (archery) pdef lowering the chance of stun landing. Stun resist buff lowers the power of stunshot, but that's another story.
Thanks guys for you inputs, this is turning out really great, most of the people who posted seems to like the changes and the problems so far just seem to be for Inquisitor to not beable to be recharged or heal self and vangaurd lack of some neccesarry skills, and both unable to summon pet.
Thanks guys for you inputs, this is turning out really great, most of the people who posted seems to like the changes and the problems so far just seem to be for Inquisitor to not beable to be recharged or heal self and vangaurd lack of some neccesarry skills, and both unable to summon pet.
DA can summon panther after he changes into vangaurd so not a big deal.
SE and EE can still Use they regen MP skill and as for heal use a heal pot!.
People that have a problem with Vanguard and Inquisitor don't use the skill ever then.
I've only been able to test Vanguard with +4 Kesh*Kesh, and it has lower DPS than my +1 Forgotten Blade with focus (even when spamming the 2 skills). Maybe with +4 S duals I'll notice an increase, but right now it is useless to me. I can understand the loss of Hex, but if they give me Judgment, they should give me Sting too.