Removing the possibility of trains in dungeons...

General Discussion Started Last reply 47 posts
Well why I am overall totally happy with the new addon - it really helps alot especially for newcomers, I totally fail to see any advantage in the way on how mob aggro is handled now in dungeons - the so called impossiblity to train with mobs anymore "feature".

Noone ever asked for such a feature, I mean yeah its nice for legal people too -> you can run outside and loose aggro but in the end only the automated players now wins. We real players have no chance anymore to fight back in any kind of catacombs if they are taken by bots. So now dear NcSoft, what are we supposed to do in such bot infested areas like catacombs/necros etc. (except reporting - because that takes too long)?

Also I think that this nerv hurt the rogue classes a lot. Several of their skills are now getting much more useless... aside from the problem that poleparties dont work anymore too...

I know that this feature may work great in Korea, where they dont have a big problem with bots, due to the account being tied to their real social id number, but why did you implement this feature in Europe/America - is it so hard to make a server side switch to disable it here. I cant imagine, that most of you wants a feature like that here?

... Even though the update overall is great its sad that it still has one BIG drawback...

Discuss...
No need to discuss. I think everyone is generally unhappy about this. No more can I do 2 rooms on a quiet day on my BH.
just for the record, its not only catacombs or necropols, also places like fog or mos are effected :(
This in an improvement for the game. The bot problem, has to be handled with focused measures.
I go climbing out of the water in GoE, with a Water Giant on my tail, ready to administer a right and proper whupping when I get out of the water. But nooooooooo! The darn Water Giant took maybe two steps out of the water, then hightailed it back into the water
It's been suggested by some posters that this measure was done for overcrowding in cats (and maybe other dungeons) in Korea. Well, ya know what? Just expand some of these places, for crying out loud! Even in NA, we've been asking to expand the cats. Then maybe even undo some of the other nerfs that were introduced against poling.
Its an AOE nerf.

Just as the VR nerf in last chronicle was.

But guess what, we beat that nerf, and we will beat this one too.

The grind is what they want. They want $15 a month for years. They do not want people getting to 85 quickly.

The unintended result of protecting bots in catas is once again unintended. (I am hoping) Most updates to the game have actually helped the soulless. I think it is because they never consider them when they make changes.

Only how do we keep these idiots playing in a fantasy world for another year?

So keep looking at the new features and determine what can be done to AOE and to beat the soulless.

Good luck.

The bot problem, has to be handled with focused measures.



Epic troll is epic.
It's not slower levelling everywhere Pavel Ruins were a pain because sometimes you pull 3 big golems you need to run all the way on the road now if they give up early it will be much easier and faster to xp there.
pavel ruins is a field. this addition is for DUNGEON type monsters only.

that said, AOE in WOA, go on, i dare ya.

pavel ruins is a field. this addition is for DUNGEON type monsters only.

that said, AOE in WOA, go on, i dare ya.



Have aoe'd the banders there before. Kind of impossible now though...SOOO many "people" there 24/7.
I figured it was done to keep polers from pulling like 4 rooms in catas and not letting others have a room :s

I figured it was done to keep polers from pulling like 4 rooms in catas and not letting others have a room :s



That was the least of our problem and plus they didn't do it 24/7. now Bots just farm 24/7 with no worries :mad:
yeah that sucks, but try what I did once... ask the farmer train to let you have the room for awhile, it actually worked once o.o
Yeah it used to work because they knew you could train them and take the room, now... no way.
Ni hao

NI hao


O good your at the computer

?



GUN!

No!


Can I just have the room for 2 hours

NO!




ok just 1 hour then you can go back 2 botting

NO!



come on just 1 hour please

NO you go now


Just 30 mins then

you go now


Let me get the room or I will train you !

30 second pause










LOL!








Green = Me

Red = Farmer
Not a hard concept, you have a few people in your party and even if it's a 9 man bot group you should be able to PK all of them without going over the 5 limit. I swear if people would just go red on bot groups there would be less of a problem. At least in VoS someone usually has to come back to the computer, hit release to town and manually run one of the characters back to rez the others. As that person is running back I just tell him that if he stays in the area I will pk him forever and he usually leaves to go to a different area :P Why not just kill them the old fashion way?

Yeah it used to work because they knew you could train them and take the room, now... no way.



lol but well I usually flag on them while I ask them. I think its cuz they are too lazy to run em all back down there after I pk them all.

Not a hard concept, you have a few people in your party and even if it's a 9 man bot group you should be able to PK all of them without going over the 5 limit. I swear if people would just go red on bot groups there would be less of a problem. At least in VoS someone usually has to come back to the computer, hit release to town and manually run one of the characters back to rez the others. As that person is running back I just tell him that if he stays in the area I will pk him forever and he usually leaves to go to a different area :P Why not just kill them the old fashion way?



well it's gotten so bad on some servers that if you pk a bot train, they more than likely have a main character high level watching over them and bam your dead.

well it's gotten so bad on some servers that if you pk a bot train, they more than likely have a main character high level watching over them and bam your dead.



Yeah, the lvl 80+ adventurers that magically appear when you kill bot trains at lvl 50 or so kinda make it a little more difficult to keep the room from them if you pk them. Granted, some of them would come in if you trained the bots as well, but not as often, since you weren't red. They dont like to turn purple for some reason.
I have a better one.
Saturday I was helping a friend get 2 books for his eva's saint ... arcane/divine protection. We tried Saints ... no free rooms. Tried Domens ... no free rooms. Tried FB and whatdoyouknow? a free room. We start killing mobs, 20 minutes later a whole farmer group logs in right in the middle of the room (**** proxies, they disconnect them :() Anyways, obviously they dont give a ****, turn killsteal on and pretty much demand the room (no answers to please leave the room for us for an hour).
So ... I pk them, all. Dorf that was last to die gives me a "Cao ni ma" and we exp for 4 minutes in peace. While we killed 6 mobs his bishop is back, and he rezes the whole train. Dorf tries to stun me, I pk them all again. 4 minutes later same story, bishop is back, I pked them bla bla. 3rd time the bishop came back I had to soe. 347k karma killing bots that dont give a **** about the exp loss suddenly seemed very idiotic on my part. Obviously we didnt get any books obviously the bots won and obviously nobody from ncsoft gives a ****.

I have a better one.
Saturday I was helping a friend get 2 books for his eva's saint ... arcane/divine protection. We tried Saints ... no free rooms. Tried Domens ... no free rooms. Tried FB and whatdoyouknow? a free room. We start killing mobs, 20 minutes later a whole farmer group logs in right in the middle of the room (**** proxies, they disconnect them :() Anyways, obviously they dont give a ****, turn killsteal on and pretty much demand the room (no answers to please leave the room for us for an hour).
So ... I pk them, all. Dorf that was last to die gives me a "Cao ni ma" and we exp for 4 minutes in peace. While we killed 6 mobs his bishop is back, and he rezes the whole train. Dorf tries to stun me, I pk them all again. 4 minutes later same story, bishop is back, I pked them bla bla. 3rd time the bishop came back I had to soe. 347k karma killing bots that dont give a **** about the exp loss suddenly seemed very idiotic on my part. Obviously we didnt get any books obviously the bots won and obviously nobody from ncsoft gives a ****.


:( that totally sucks. I used to go red all the time on bots but you just can't anymore they got too smart. Plus last time I did it and asked for help to wash, I was told I was an idiot for pk'ing bots.

Not a hard concept, you have a few people in your party and even if it's a 9 man bot group you should be able to PK all of them without going over the 5 limit. I swear if people would just go red on bot groups there would be less of a problem. At least in VoS someone usually has to come back to the computer, hit release to town and manually run one of the characters back to rez the others. As that person is running back I just tell him that if he stays in the area I will pk him forever and he usually leaves to go to a different area :P Why not just kill them the old fashion way?



I have 67 PKS trust me PKing is a %#%$%@*%^&%^& waste :mad:
Fixed it for yah....


come on just 1 hour please

NO! you go now. PK! PK!

pavel ruins is a field. this addition is for DUNGEON type monsters only.

that said, AOE in WOA, go on, i dare ya.


I meant Archaic Laboratory, there are no big golems in pavel ruins
Why would anyone pole in Archaic Labs. Everything in there is super-extreme-mega resistant to physicall damage.
This is very true - the change to the mobs in the cats was one of the worst ideas out there - I feel that I can speak for everyone, that we all hate it - except for the bots.

And yes you can PK the bots, but why, they do not care at all and NC is doing nothing about it - Spam and Alrya, please do not say that you are, because if that was the case, the rooms would be open and bot free.

we all hate it - except for the bots.



That puts you in the minority, unfortunately.

Not kidding.

This is very true - the change to the mobs in the cats was one of the worst ideas out there - I feel that I can speak for everyone, that we all hate it - except for the bots.

And yes you can PK the bots, but why, they do not care at all and NC is doing nothing about it - Spam and Alrya, please do not say that you are, because if that was the case, the rooms would be open and bot free.



oh please.

There is not one AAA game that doesn't have this problem. Stop buying money and there won't be bots. Until that time you have bots. If it were that easy then ONE of them would have solved it no?
Sometimes I feel like I'm playing a different game than everyone else.... from reading the boards, I'm obviously in the minority, but I don't think I've ever once had a problem finding a spot due to bots (and I've been playing since OB). I'm not saying I don't see bots, because I do, but I've never had the experience of "I can't find a place to xp cuz all the spots are filled w/ bots!" If I'm having a problem finding spots to xp, it's almost always real people that are in 85% of the spots I look.

I've never had to PK bots to find a spot to xp, never once even needed to consider training bots, never had to even ask bots to vacate a room for me... (although I have been in parties where friends wanted specific rooms and asked bots to leave.)

Yes, yes, I know everyone will think I'm crazy. I understand that I'm in the minority by far, I have just never had a problem finding a spot because there are too many bots. Maybe it's the areas I hunt in, but I don't ever find a spot "overrun" by bots. I find bots, just not to the extent that I can't find my own spot to lvl.

(And slightly off topic, are there REALLY still Chinese farmer bots in the game? I assumed all bots now are run by actual NA or Euro players. I haven't seen Chinese chat in game since like C2. And since I'm trying to learn Mandarin atm, I actually wouldn't mind talking to some Chinese farmers. XD I wasn't learning it back in OB - C2 when the dungeons were full of them... now I kinda wish we still had some so I could practice. :p)
Bots are at special places, for instance in crypts of Disgrace because of the grave robbers that spoil D grade Enchant scrolls there.

If you go to the crypts you can bet you'll see dwarven bots and even some of the other races. Of course if you hunt the orcs instead you'll never be in trouble because of the bots, since you won't compete with them.
Someone should go to Austin and confront the admins of this game. Be like "Why dont you ban the bots?!" "We ban all the bots we find" "Well lets go to DO real quick" "Im sorry, those actual players" "How come they dont respond?" "There obviously doing something important"


Someone go to austin..
It's hard for me to keep paying for a game where I have to spend more time reporting/training/PK'ing bots than I do xp'ing. Back in the old days it was ok cause I could shake the bots down for a few million adena anytime I wanted to. But now.........sigh :(
The question I would ask is "Why there are no GMs in game?", every other game, even F2P have GMs in game. ROHAN Online have several GMs per server, only L2 doesn't have any, and when the cat is away the mouses dance.

"Why there are no GMs in game?"



Why do you think their aren't?
right so just cos someone doesnt talk to u means their a bot? maybe they just dont wanna waste valuable energy talking to non factors >.>

bots do get banned.... go look at the posts on [censored] or is that to much for u?

stop complaining constantly like little school girls geez
The only way to claim a room from bots in a catacomb was to train them. Since all catacoms is taken by bots in Lineage2 its NOT a good thing for newcommers or senior players.

This is really only a bot-friendly change.
Dosen't Matter if the bots get banned. They just come back. If they really gave a [censored] about the bot problem.. there would be INGAME GM'S you could acutally talk to and have them come look... but that makes to much sense which NC lacks. I've already stated they just insure the safety of their 10% from buyadean.com hahaha.
I was so fed up with the bots in apos the other night I pk'd them all then pk'd as they ported back inside. Although their Protector was some noob [censored] TH in Doom heavy with a cry dagger *Fail* they even had a S grade PR that own aswell.
The bot issue will always be there.
Deal , Live with it .. or PK them all ^^
The problem is not the new AoE nerf, the problem is that bots don't get banned.
You can still pole 2 room in cata's and you can train bots still also=/ takes a little more work but you can still do it, because i do it on my Bh anytime i need to take a room.Yeah you might not be able to pull 3-4 rooms but you can def still do 2 rooms easly.. just try a little harder and just like the vr nerf there are ways around it and to live with it.

Heck even if you have to pk the bots and let some mobs kill you to drop your red like on my Bh you will make that xp back and it's more sp.
Being an in-game GM where players can chat with you at any time would SUCK for the GM - we whine enough here on the boards, can you think how we would be in-game.

Maybe in dead servers, the cats are not filled to the rim with bots - and yes I agree with a few of you, the issue that is that people create the demand for the bots in the first place.

And I miss the old days when training bots was a way to get your gear.


"Why there are no GMs in game?"



Why do you think their aren't?



Because I haven't seen any.
Because when I report a bot nobody comes to check.
not all rooms some rooms are 2 hard I spent 30 mins trying train bots that I normally kill in 30 secs :mad:

The question I would ask is "Why there are no GMs in game?", every other game, even F2P have GMs in game. ROHAN Online have several GMs per server, only L2 doesn't have any, and when the cat is away the mouses dance.



Maybe the L2 GM's are currently busy botting in Rohan? :eek:
Well sure if they would finally ban at least some of the bots, the problem would not even exist - but since we are left alone with the bots -> all the game mechanics, that help bots are very bad for us legit players!

Because they always just laugh about being reported, they just laugh about when you pk them several times - they are even happy - longer time no need to change place if you level them down... sadly bots can only be helped with GMs nowadays, because ALL weapons we had against them are finally removed... - sure the GM weapon would be the best anyway, but this weapon seems to be removed completly...

And guys its not only adena farmers botting... by now there are many players botting up their toons to make them Hero etc. - and those I tell you, you CANT train with 1-2 rooms in catas, they kill them faster then you can bring mobs, thats for sure...

Kind regards,
Rin

P.S. Why is it so hard to give us some old game mechanics back on european/american servers - why???
I was getting sick of polers hogging the whole place and stealing the mobs from me. Especially when I need it for quest and ask them to leave 2 or 3 mobs for me. They come and train me. I know its fun for you guys to kill tons of mobs at the same time or clear the whole place in seconds. But its not fun for others sit there and watch. NCsoft did a good thing.

I was getting sick of polers hogging the whole place and stealing the mobs from me. Especially when I need it for quest and ask them to leave 2 or 3 mobs for me. They come and train me. I know its fun for you guys to kill tons of mobs at the same time or clear the whole place in seconds. But its not fun for others sit there and watch. NCsoft did a good thing.



I love poling. It's unfortunate that NCsoft felt the need to legislate courtesy, but that seems like the result. Since most folks in a poling party just want to sit on their collective [censored] or it's too much trouble to move those boxed buffers after every second room I do see people occupying fewer spots in the Catas/Necros.

Also, you can still train but the effectives of that plan is contingent upon the trains location and support now. There are some rooms that are just too far from enough mobs to make it work and if the train has an oop healer of any real level then you can't round up the whole **** dungeon like you could in the past and just win with shear numbers. I have still been able to train...sometimes.

I kinda like the changes now.
All it would really take is one GM per server doing nothing but looking around and banning bots. That one GM per server wounded even been seen, or answer any questions from players. This would not kill the money NCSoft makes since most if not all the pro farmers just buy a new account and start over again.

One thing I do know is most of the farmer type bots have backup accounts. If there goup gets banned, they get the other accounts up and running which have already been lvl'ed and geared. There setup is the same and all, just there names are a lil different.

But what really gets to me is knowing I have reported the very same group (yes names stay the same). For over 8 weeks and nothing. Some times it's does seam like the GM's don't really even care untill we (the real players) start making a big stink about it on the boards. Then they do one big ban and figure we will be happy with that for the next 6 months or so.

The only other option would be for all the major clans to really start cracking down on there members. If one of them gets cought botting or buying adena they should get kicked from the clan and inform all clans on the server what that person did and no one should invite them to clan. But that will never happen since most major clans could care less, all they want is to /win and let there members do what ever it takes to get where they can help them /pawn there war tags.