Have you benefited from the IGNORANCE of others?

This post has a dark title, but hopefully a positive end result. Simply put, how have you benefited from the ignorance of others?

This is not about scams. Those can be documented elsewhere. I want to know if you have ever profited from having more knowledge of game mechanics, guidelines, etc., than another player.

For example, yesterday a dwarf was selling a pair of SLS duals for 20 Million adena. I saw the item in store and laughed, because no one in their RIGHT mind would make such a purchase. Crafting dual SLS in Gracia does not cost 20M, more like 12M - 13M at the most. Yet not quite an hour later, I saw that the dwarf had indeed sold the dual SLS for his asking price.

My assumption is that consumers are more logical than emotional in their purchases and that a truly informed consumer would not have purchased those SLS at that inflated price. The only conclusion that I could arrive at is that the buyer simply didn't know better.

With that, I open the confessional to you. Let's hear your stories.

Lets see I bought a +6 Homunk with Acu for 16m and resold it back when it was worth 50m ;)

Prior to gracia patch i sold every c grade item i could get my hands on at a price which would be ridiculus in gracia including a set of dual els +4 for 13m and Plated Leather Boots for 12m ;)

have you tried to get the 450 sop it takes to dual sls's?

with that said, it's how most people make money farming giran, it's not always about game mechanics, it's about the impatients of buyers.

I love people who inflate the prices on l2 wh marketplace :).

Made a lot of adena selling to people who go off prices from there.

The only conclusion that I could arrive at is that the buyer simply didn't know better.

There is another conclusion from all this: Some people simply don't care about the price of an item. It has a proper name in economics but, simply put, when you have "a lot of money" the sls*sls cost (10kk or 20kk or 40kk) is irrelevant.

Some are even stubborn. I specifically told someone that a certain book was available in the npc store, he kept shouting "WTB", so I sold it to him for 300k. Maybe he didn't want to go to the npc :)

Maybe not ignorance, but i have profited several times from impatience

I have bought multiple items for prices that could only be explained as the seller having written a zero too little
(dama for 6m, dama focus for 6.5m, tsu*sls+4 in c4 for 3m)

have you tried to get the 450 sop it takes to dual sls's?

Yes, I have. Remember, I've been playing this game for ages. I remember what it was like to have to actually craft both SLS AND get the SOP's. At that time it was 555 of those babies, iirc, and that was when SOP's cost 10K each, if you bought them at market, and there was no manor system. They can be had for around 2k - 4k now, depending on your server.

it's not always about game mechanics, it's about the impatients of buyers.

Very true, but that flies under the banner of "emotional" causation, which I've ruled out for the purposes of this discussion.

The only conclusion that I could arrive at is that the buyer simply didn't know better.

There is another conclusion from all this: Some people simply don't care about the price of an item. It has a proper name in economics but, simply put, when you have "a lot of money" the sls*sls cost (10kk or 20kk or 40kk) is irrelevant.




I think the correct term there is eBaynomics. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. :D :D

Yes, I know there are plenty of wealthy people on the server who can't be bothered with prices. But I still think that common sense dictates for MOST rational consumers that you pay as little as possible for an item, not more.

I wouldn't know where to begin to answer this.

I've sold EVERYTHING in the game below S-grade. It sometimes just makes me laugh and laugh.

Particularly as many say that "marketing doesn't work....!". Ha! Works every day because "there's one born every minute".

True story--I once sold quite a few proofs of blood (yes, they lay on the ground uncollected in Dragon Valley) for 400,000k each.
They were quite literally a free item and dropped by the dozen. I used to ninja in on a low alt, grab them, get killed, and then set up shop in Dion.
Wasn't a scam. They really and truly were proofs of blood and I really did advertise them at 400k each--and sold out multiple times.

If you can think of it, I've sold it to those lazy, unwilling to read, or just not able to bothered with a few minutes of their time.

I've even 'rigged the market'--legitimately inflated a specific item to my advantage--though I'm not going to say any more about that except to say I have clanmates who watched in disbelief while I did it! Again, no scam--I sold a real, desirable item at the absolute highest market price and those who bought thought they were getting a deal!

I've resold actual NPC shop consumables to my advantage (and gotten dozens of 'recs' in the process).

I have resold NG weapons for profit...
I have bought and resold enchant scrolls on alternating days in the same location (which is REALLY funny when you think about it)....for some serious increases in my adena!

I think the funniest example of doing what everyone does and taking advantage of the foolish was all those months and months on Lionna that Top-D weapons routinely sold to ebayers for 5million. This went on for the better part of 2 years while AA was at 3a. This put the cost of transferring up via Mammon at between 2.9 and 3.1 million adena. You'd "make" 3-8 top D weapons and sell each for nearly 2 million adena profit each--which is like minting coins in your basement!
Funny because every one of those players could have done the same with a tiny amount of effort and investigation--yet they still overpaid for the weapon. For awhile on Lionna aa was at 2 each and you could churn out top-C weapons for an even better profit margin per item--same thing.

This post reply could go on for ever.

I have two rules for marketing.
1. Never mislead--sell the real item for the most you can get.
2. Everybody but clanmates (and a few friends) are marks to be fleeced. (hey, you don't PvP to lose--I don't spend my time marketing to "lose").

I've taught countless new players that "you can sell ANYTHING in this game" and also to be careful and cautious and SLOW before buying--to check websites & trends & with clanmates before making a purchase of ANYTHING that is listed for more than 1 million adena.
L2 may be "open PvP" but it also just as much "let the buyer beware".

Honest? Absolutely. Fair? There is no such thing as 'fair' in L2.

This post has a dark title, but hopefully a positive end result. Simply put, how have you benefited from the ignorance of others?

This is not about scams. Those can be documented elsewhere. I want to know if you have ever profited from having more knowledge of game mechanics, guidelines, etc., than another player.

For example, yesterday a dwarf was selling a pair of SLS duals for 20 Million adena. I saw the item in store and laughed, because no one in their RIGHT mind would make such a purchase. Crafting dual SLS in Gracia does not cost 20M, more like 12M - 13M at the most. Yet not quite an hour later, I saw that the dwarf had indeed sold the dual SLS for his asking price.

My assumption is that consumers are more logical than emotional in their purchases and that a truly informed consumer would not have purchased those SLS at that inflated price. The only conclusion that I could arrive at is that the buyer simply didn't know better.

With that, I open the confessional to you. Let's hear your stories.

You assume that the person who purchased that item purchased it without realizing that it would be cheaper to craft them.

As far as I'm concerned crafting is a not fun for me. Period. For that reason I would gladly pay a premium to have someone do all that tedium as well as take the chance of the possibility that it fails.

Bless the person who is willing to do that (and finds it enjoyable) and I gladly will pay that premium.

But then again, this also reflects my attitude in real life. I could make dinner, Or I could eat out.

I'd rather eat out. And not have to do the dishes. :cool:

The only conclusion that I could arrive at is that the buyer simply didn't know better.

There is another conclusion from all this: Some people simply don't care about the price of an item. It has a proper name in economics but, simply put, when you have "a lot of money" the sls*sls cost (10kk or 20kk or 40kk) is irrelevant.




I think the correct term there is eBaynomics. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. :D :D

Yes, I know there are plenty of wealthy people on the server who can't be bothered with prices. But I still think that common sense dictates for MOST rationale consumers that you pay as little as possible for an item, not more.



Not at all. You assume that paying less is more rationale. I posit the idea that it is more rationale to not waste time doing things that are not enjoyable.

Certainly, there is always an element of the 'I don't want to waste time' in the game, wherein you are willing to pay a higher price rather than wait, teleport, hunt, whatever. It's sometimes called 'the cost of convenience,' or the price of instant gratification.' The example of the book purchase for 300k would fall into this category, IF the book was available only in a starter town (if not, I would put it in the 'price of stupidity/laziness' category).

Long, long ago, back before I ever had as much as $1 million adena on me an any time, I made 3 or 4 million by simply buying mats from one player shop where they were priced a little less than the current market, and selling to another player's Buy shop at quite a bit more than the market. I had to make several trips because I didn't have enough adena to buy out the 1st shop until my third or fourth trip. I remember being nervous that someone else would see the Buyshop before I got back and I would be stuck with all these mats. This happened before the shop search function was available.

Not at all. You assume that paying less is more rationale. I posit the idea that it is more rationale to not waste time doing things that are not enjoyable.

A good credo to live by.

But for argument's sake, the time you save is illusory. Why? Because it took you time to earn the adena to purchase said item. You are simply shifting the negative impact so that it SEEMS like less of an overall waste in time to you.

If we looked at the grind and adena earned in terms of wage hours, we would eventually conclude that you would have to farm X amount of hours in order to earn enough adena to make a given purchase. Even if you are out "hustling" in the market, the principle is the same. Farm less than those hours and you don't earn enough to complete the purchase. Farm more than those hours and you increase your income, but it's still at a personal cost to you in time.

So to buy an item for more than it's actual cost means that you are effectively farming for longer hours, for less value. In short, you are wasting time AND money. That wouldn't be more enjoyable, I don't think.

Obviously, this is not a hard and fast rule, since other variables factor into it, but you get the point. And yes, once again I'm making an assumption: no one enjoys the grind so much that they'd be willing to work more hours for less returns on their labor.

I wouldn't know where to begin to answer this. L2 may be "open PvP" but it also just as much "let the buyer beware". Honest? Absolutely. Fair? There is no such thing as 'fair' in L2.

Caveat emptor?

Ironically, knowing the rules of the game, however harsh, is what makes it fair.

Paraphrased, war is the extension of politics by other means. Would you agree that playing the market is PVP by other means?

You assume that the person who purchased that item purchased it without realizing that it would be cheaper to craft them.

As far as I'm concerned crafting is a not fun for me. Period. For that reason I would gladly pay a premium to have someone do all that tedium as well as take the chance of the possibility that it fails.

The difference between you and the ignorant fool is that you decide to pay the premium after considering the alternatives, while the other player does not even bother to learn the game.

Not surprisingly, the same people complain about how hard it is to make adena :D

Not at all. You assume that paying less is more rationale. I posit the idea that it is more rationale to not waste time doing things that are not enjoyable.

A good credo to live by.

But for argument's sake, the time you save is illusory. Why? Because it took you time to earn the adena to purchase said item. You are simply shifting the negative impact so that it SEEMS like less of an overall waste in time to you.

If we looked at the grind and adena earned in terms of wage hours, we would eventually conclude that you would have to farm X amount of hours in order to earn enough adena to make a given purchase. Even if you are out "hustling" in the market, the principle is the same. Farm less than those hours and you don't earn enough to complete the purchase. Farm more than those hours and you increase your income, but it's still at a personal cost to you in time.

So to buy an item for more than it's actual cost means that you are effectively farming for longer hours, for less value. In short, you are wasting time AND money. That wouldn't be more enjoyable, I don't think.

Obviously, this is not a hard and fast rule, since other variables factor into it, but you get the point. And yes, once again I'm making an assumption: no one enjoys the grind so much that they'd be willing to work more hours for less returns on their labor.



That is very true, but think of it this way.

If the idea of playing a game, and especially a game like an mmo, is to maximize what one enjoys and to minimize what one doesn't enjoy, then it stands to reason that any player would try to maximize the enjoyment in what he/she chooses to do.

To this end, one should seek any way to make money that one enjoys.

I have two ways of doing it. I do some overenchanting but make sure I don't exceed that point of no retun where you are actually losing money (for example, I recently spent 90 million on enchanting 3 DC robes to +6. I failed on one and sold the other two for 105 million each)

I also try to find items that are highly sought after by players but that I can buy and resell for a minimum of 2 million adena + for each. Essentially "playing the market".

I find this enjoyable to a certain extant and feel that it is worth my time.

So I have wisely spent my real life money for game enjoyment.

Now that I have profited in both enjoying my time spent and also making some money I can now apply that newly made money to something that I need.

there is the +5 wand of instant killing. I can either spend a million hours in an area where I don't want to be with the hope of a drop or spend all those extremely tedious hours gathering mats with a 60% chance of success or I can purchase it for double what it probably is worth and move on to something else that I enjoy.

Now, getting back to your original post, I'm not sure if I have benefitted from knowing more (in the areas that I could possbily know more) about the game than others.

I have however taken advantage of the luck of others when it comes to them selling things they made, especially things like shots.

So, for instance, if I find somene selling shots for far less than any other shop, I will buy all their stock and sell for the going rate. this way I spend less time making them and I just take the small profit as it comes.

However, there once was a time when NC changed the amount of items that were needed to make shots so the price went up.

I raised my price and was one of the higher in gludio. 2 other dwarves wanted to raise the price even more and pm'ed me to ask me if I could raise my price to what they wanted to get so that no one could pay for any less. Essentially price fixing.

I felt that amount that they wanted to get was unreasonable so I refused. I have no problem overpricing but I do have a problem with gouging someone. Some might not appreciate the difference but I feel there is one.

This post has a dark title, but hopefully a positive end result. Simply put, how have you benefited from the ignorance of others?

AA and GSS. In the same sellshop, near the Priest of Dawn, on mammon week. GSS is cheaper, of course, but some people still buy millions of AA :o

I have both accidentally sold an item forgetting a trailing zero, and bought one for the same. In both instances the item was returned to the seller. Mine was a 14m mistake. the other guys was an 18m mistake.

Maybe I'm a chump for not taking advantage of it. Or maybe it's Karma.

have you tried to get the 450 sop it takes to dual sls's?

Yes, I have. Remember, I've been playing this game for ages. I remember what it was like to have to actually craft both SLS AND get the SOP's. At that time it was 555 of those babies, iirc, and that was when SOP's cost 10K each, if you bought them at market, and there was no manor system. They can be had for around 2k - 4k now, depending on your server.




I remember that it was in c2 when everyone was making dual sls's. I remember crafting sls's and steams being 1k each and sls blades being about 200k at the time.

It might be just my server then, cause there isn't a SOP to be found in sell shops right now, and buy shops are buying at 6.5k.

Perhaps a moral of this story is that knowledge is valuable, the more you know then the more likely you are to make money off your knowledge.

This is true in the real world also, the more knowledge you have of business, real estate, insurance, mathematics, statistics, geography, politics..(list goes on forever) the more opportunities you have to make your fortune.

I find it curious (as a teacher) that many students try to get through class and into the workforce while learning as little as possible rather than as much as possible. Those who seek knowledge are much more often the ones who make fortunes. Perhaps this intellectual laziness in school is the same laziness we see in L2 when people pay too much for game items. Perhaps those who make the effort to be well informed ingame are also more likely to be well informed in life and ultimaly end up prospering.

After all, you are who you are...whether at a keyboard or a school desk or a job. Where ever you go, there you are.

Perhaps a moral of this story is that knowledge is valuable, the more you know then the more likely you are to make money off your knowledge.

This is true in the real world also, the more knowledge you have of business, real estate, insurance, mathematics, statistics, geography, politics..(list goes on forever) the more opportunities you have to make your fortune.

I find it curious (as a teacher) that many students try to get through class and into the workforce while learning as little as possible rather than as much as possible. Those who seek knowledge are much more often the ones who make fortunes. Perhaps this intellectual laziness in school is the same laziness we see in L2 when people pay too much for game items. Perhaps those who make the effort to be well informed ingame are also more likely to be well informed in life and ultimaly end up prospering.

After all, you are who you are...whether at a keyboard or a school desk or a job. Where ever you go, there you are.

Depends on what you mean by "knowledge" I know some scarily smart people who aren't well off in any way shape or form. I know plenty of wealthy or extremely well off people who are smart but but don't really know a lot. They know what they know and can make a good living off of it. But ask them to speak about anything beyond that comfort zone and you get a blank slate.