Sometimes to understand the nature of a thing, I like to to try to get an understanding of its beginning. I've tried to apply this concept to L2 in an attempt to find out where it deviated from it's original purpose. I imagine that when the developers first put pen to paper in designing this game they envisioned a free roaming, player controlled land in which gamers could immerse themselves into dire conflict, resounding resolution, the bonds of friendship, the fires of war, the overwhelming excitement of victory, and the sobering resentment of defeat. This is how the game started, and for a time, it was a blast!
And then the inevitable happened. It's a story as old as the world itself. Someone figured out a way to subvert the original purpose and thus a new paradigm was born. L2 was no longer about any of it's founding principles (at least to the majority), it became all about leveling as quickly as you can by any and all means necessary. Now there are some who still play L2 in it's purest form, but these guys more often than not find themselves to be alone in the world surrounded by a scant few like-minded players. Many have adopted the idea that quickly leveling is all this game is about. And why do they do that? Because the general populace has been convinced that you can't have any meaningful pvp until you reach your high 70's. The ludricrous part of all this is, a level 77 vs a level 77 is about the same as a level 40 vs a level 40 or a level 6 vs a level 6. You don't live any longer in equal pvp based on level. Any longevity is all in quick healing pots, CP pots, or gear. This is the same at all levels in the game. So why the rush?
The game has degenerated into five or six choice pieces of armor, weapons, and upgrades for all levels. There's almost no variation in the game anymore. The game has become so cookie-cutter when it comes to leveling you can easily remove possibly 50% of the current game's armor choices, weapon choices and hunting grounds and no one in this game would be noticeably affected. I think it's time we all rethought how we ended up this way and take some steps to get it all back to formula.
I wouldnt say its completly cookie cutter type with augmentations, the new foundation crafts it changes what the weapons are and do, significantly. True the look may be the same but the over all effect of the weapon isnt the same.
I am very glad the OP said this. While your view is not the majority view, it is strongly held by a large minority of the old-time L2 players.
This game is fun at all levels, you can have fun at 10, at 20, at 30....at 80. Sure, the fun may be different at different levels but it is still fun. To me, it makes little sense to skip game content designed for the 20s so you can get to game content designed for the 60's (or any other decade).
I have a friend who is 80/78/65ish and who did it totally legit, the fellow is a grinding machine and loves the grind. But he has never visited the highest mountain in the game nor has he seen all the waterfalls, beaches or the best places to watch the moon rise. That's cool, he loves the game his way and I love it the way I play...we should each enjoy the game as we wish. However, the tendency to 'grind to high levels' as a default way to play because many never try anything else means that many players miss out of most of the wonderful stuff L2 has to offer.
Sometimes to understand the nature of a thing, I like to to try to get an understanding of its beginning. I've tried to apply this concept to L2 in an attempt to find out where it deviated from it's original purpose. I imagine that when the developers first put pen to paper in designing this game they envisioned a free roaming, player controlled land in which gamers could immerse themselves into dire conflict, resounding resolution, the bonds of friendship, the fires of war, the overwhelming excitement of victory, and the sobering resentment of defeat. This is how the game started, and for a time, it was a blast!
And then the inevitable happened. It's a story as old as the world itself. Someone figured out a way to subvert the original purpose and thus a new paradigm was born. L2 was no longer about any of it's founding principles (at least to the majority), it became all about leveling as quickly as you can by any and all means necessary. Now there are some who still play L2 in it's purest form, but these guys more often than not find themselves to be alone in the world surrounded by a scant few like-minded players. Many have adopted the idea that quickly leveling is all this game is about. And why do they do that? Because the general populace has been convinced that you can't have any meaningful pvp until you reach your high 70's. The ludricrous part of all this is, a level 77 vs a level 77 is about the same as a level 40 vs a level 40 or a level 6 vs a level 6. You don't live any longer in equal pvp based on level. Any longevity is all in quick healing pots, CP pots, or gear. This is the same at all levels in the game. So why the rush?
The game has degenerated into five or six choice pieces of armor, weapons, and upgrades for all levels. There's almost no variation in the game anymore. The game has become so cookie-cutter when it comes to leveling you can easily remove possibly 50% of the current game's armor choices, weapon choices and hunting grounds and no one in this game would be noticeably affected. I think it's time we all rethought how we ended up this way and take some steps to get it all back to formula.
I've been saying it for years. We all enjoy this game differently. I've been here since OB and never once quit and came back, i always enjoy this game as it was day one.
In my experience, the Ppl who grind to quickly get to the end game fast, then do massive pvp and enjoy themselves very much, but sadly, after a while they move on.
It all depends what your looking for in this game. Everyone should understand that we are all in L2 for different reasons and noones reason is better then the other. Play to have fun folks, thats it....
hehe i gotta disagree there... lin2 has the highest continual self-enhancing options of any MMO I think, ppl that like grinding and grind to end-game and have fun in massive pvp ect, still have so much to do... its virtually impossible to max a char here (lv85 w/80/80/80 subs, is about max you can get for a char as far as leveling, and there is no limit to max gear... you can always get higher enchant)
The rush is, when you are the level 40 and that level 77 comes to kill you, you have no chance.
He only comes becuse you have killed him when he is in subclass or on a alt.
So then you can only laugh at him.
I never said it wasn't funny ;) but it is the biggest motivator.
In the early days they used the excuse that they wanted you to level so they could have competition, and that is why they griefed you on a higher level, but in fact it was a lie. Lineage 2 isn't about fair or competition.
"But he has never visited the highest mountain in the game nor has he seen all the waterfalls, beaches or the best places to watch the moon rise."
What the highest mountain is in Aden ?
Ah the memories: On C1, I had this friend, we were like 3X-4X and trying to get to Enchanted Valley we got lost and climb a mountain...and climb and climb and climb....we could even see clouds :) nicest fantasy memory I have in game...almost felt like climbing Caradhras :)
not exactly true in all cases, wamwam. as others have said, L2 is a game focused on levels ever since the deign changed from "lets give you skills till lvl 40, then pure level walls after that" to "lets give you skills all the way through to the top end of the game, make it harder and harder to acquire, and make the skills o powerful that any solo high level can strut his stuff in an equal level fight."
and no, CP pot spam does not guarantee you a win at ANY level. it helps in mass pvp where the focus of attack can shift, where there is an escape route to take in an open field, over terrain. to regain group strength.
but you ARE right on this wise: a match of equals is the same at all levels.
but even that is debteable. levels gained in order to live longer on the siege field, levels get you a minor upper hand in the olympiad, levels in short are the core of the content in L2.
merely BECAUSE the levels 1-77 exist does not make them irrelevant, else we would all start at 78.
the rush to level is the rush to learn how your class functions. the long road to being smart. the " fight smarter - not harder " paradoxical catch-22.
those who merely 10101 it up acheive nothing more than the level. actually playing these levels to the end makes you inherently a smarter, and far better player. youll fight to where you know youll get the outcome you desire. and if you know you need support, youll always ask.
a simple 1010101'er gets his target level, hops on the real client and instantly starts whacking on the next person to cross his path, and calls it pvp. when he loses (cause they always do) he starts whining about his gimp class.
but the many who have tread those steps before know how each gimpy class can ungimp itself. a level 80 that /attacks his opponents instead of first finding help, making strategy, and showing knowledge of power by using a skill, soon finds himself the target of humiliation at the hands of any person that understands the flaws.
the rush to level is the rush to learn how to overcome your individual class's weaknesses. its not entirely "youre not 79, you cannot be in our clan" but a "ive NEVER seen you around, and youre already 78 ... who the hell are you, and if you botted we dont want you. " worded differently.
recently a level 63 BD left our clan on aria, looking for a more pvp oriented clan. i TOLD him he wont ever get taken, but he wants to show people his "uber" character. i hang my head in shame.
Yes that is the problem, people just getting levels levels levels, then when they get to end game, they don't know a thing about their class, yet they think they do, so when they PvP the experienced players, they get demolished, flattened, rolled over, spit on, and stomped into the ground 12 feet under, and called a worthless noob.
I've seen it before, I've also seen an entire clan get destroyed by a few people because the clan didn't know what they were doing.
like leave the bishop and nukers alive and go for the head on fighters first
This game is not as popular as it could be. With enough new blood, we could see wars even with low level clans, the type of game you are talking about.
i doubt it, there's not even lowbies, and the bored high levels and the high levels who get their butt kicked enough and have low self esteem will come and intertwine with the little low levels there are.
Because the general populace has been convinced that you can't have any meaningful pvp until you reach your high 70's. The ludricrous part of all this is, a level 77 vs a level 77 is about the same as a level 40 vs a level 40 or a level 6 vs a level 6. You don't live any longer in equal pvp based on level. Any longevity is all in quick healing pots, CP pots, or gear. This is the same at all levels in the game. So why the rush?
Good topic, but it wont change anything. Some people play to experience the game and design and so on. Some people do play to get end game asap for seiges and pvp. If you don't fit into either of those then ya you probly will go play another game lol.
Because the general populace has been convinced that you can't have any meaningful pvp until you reach your high 70's. The ludricrous part of all this is, a level 77 vs a level 77 is about the same as a level 40 vs a level 40 or a level 6 vs a level 6. You don't live any longer in equal pvp based on level. Any longevity is all in quick healing pots, CP pots, or gear. This is the same at all levels in the game. So why the rush?
You clearly haven't done any endgame pvp.
trust me a lvl 77 vs a lvl 77 is in now way any close to a lvl 40 vs a lvl 40? why? cause 1 you really don't get start getting yo class specific skills till 43, or 44+ and you have advanced class skills at 77, also the difference in armors, the bigger possibility to enhance s weapons, the "increases damage to opponent in pvp" etc. it's not the same. and a lvl 6 vs a lvl 6 is either whack and power strike or do a costant slow nuke, thats all it is
Regardless of the class specific skills, pvp vs any same lvl pvp is exciting... sure lvl 55 is a little more exciting than lvl 30 but pvp is pvp and the excitement is exhilarating when it's evenly matched... what's a deal killer is an honest lvl 77 getting pwned by a botted S80, which in L2 is all too familiar. That's where the ownage suckage lays... I know I'm preaching against the choir but I don't really give a [censored]... I'm an honest lvl74 and the gods praise me for it... even if the regular L2 "ownage masters" don't.
trust me a lvl 77 vs a lvl 77 is in now way any close to a lvl 40 vs a lvl 40? why? cause 1 you really don't get start getting yo class specific skills till 43, or 44+ and you have advanced class skills at 77, also the difference in armors, the bigger possibility to enhance s weapons, the "increases damage to opponent in pvp" etc. it's not the same. and a lvl 6 vs a lvl 6 is either whack and power strike or do a costant slow nuke, thats all it is
Well, it would seem to me that if I got my class specific skills at level 43, someone else probably got theirs at about the same time. So if I'm level 77 with a bunch of suped up skills, it would stand to reason that any opponents I have at that level would be equally as charged. So either way, you're back to about 25 seconds or less of pvp between any two equal level combatants other than dwarf vs tank or healer vs healer. Any uberness is usually the consequence of balance flaws which could, and did, exist at every level.
At first the rush to 52 or so made sense, everyone wanted a castle and unless you had alot of time or alot of people, you had to be at least B grade to take one. Then after all the castles were taken it became a rush to level past B grade so that you could mount a good offensive or defensive in sieges. Then the trouble started. People were accusing people of sharing accounts and reaching higher levels. When account sharing became a heated forum topic, people turned to 2 boxing to level up quicker because it didn't break the EULA. When that became mainstream, people no longer wanted to hunt in parties with their clans, they mostly only wanted to show up for raids. Then came L2traveller, or L2wanderer...or whatever the devil kids are calling it these days and things got worse. Gone were the farmers of old that used to give you a little "RANG, RANG" action and a decent fight every now and again which was still in the spirit of L2. Now they don't even pay you any attention anymore. Just like mostly all the other players, even the farmers don't have the time or inclination to interact with other players in the game.
I've joined 8 or 9 different clans on different servers and unfortunately it's all been the same thing. I get the usual "Welcome" from all the members when they see that I joined and if they have a clan hall they let me know where it is. They tell me to hurry up and get to 20, then 40, then 52. I make all these levels and then I need to hurry up and get to A-grade cause that's where the pvp is. I rarely get any help (cause most people don't trust new members) and people rarely speak online. If they have Vent, I can get in and have conversations about what's happening in the world outside of the game or get the usual "how much is _____ selling for?" I can count the number of times someone has ever asked me to party with them on one finger and raids are either next to impossible to find or usually scheduled for some idle wednesday or weekend every other week. Now I realize L2 is an old game and it has a very mature community in terms of levels (some of which were gained in manners more questionable than others), and I realize that due to game mechanics it's difficult for more seasoned players to offer much more than advice, gear, and adena to lower level players. Fortunately, that's not what this little diatribe is about. What I'm getting at is why did we trade in all that's good about L2 for this insane dash to endgame? And even more, why do we allow it to continue?
I've joined 8 or 9 different clans on different servers and unfortunately it's all been the same thing. I get the usual "Welcome" from all the members when they see that I joined and if they have a clan hall they let me know where it is. They tell me to hurry up and get to 20, then 40, then 52. I make all these levels and then I need to hurry up and get to A-grade cause that's where the pvp is. I rarely get any help (cause most people don't trust new members) and people rarely speak online. If they have Vent, I can get in and have conversations about what's happening in the world outside of the game or get the usual "how much is _____ selling for?" I can count the number of times someone has ever asked me to party with them on one finger and raids are either next to impossible to find or usually scheduled for some idle wednesday or weekend every other week.
I know that problem, from the other side. We are a pretty old clan with lots of players who started playing in prelude/C1, so most of the very active players who log on every day are 76+, actually most are 78+ and 76+ on their subclasses. We are always happy when a new player joins the clan, but the sad truth is that people with a main in the level range 40-60 are very rare these days. In that level range, you cannot party with the higher levels in clan because you will just not get any xp at all (and most likely die a horrible one-shot death vs. the mobs anyway), and of course most of the clannies enjoy playing their mains more than logging on a lvl 50 alt to play with the new guy.
So what happens is that the new clan member gets maybe a party every now and then with somebody who is playing an academy toon for clan rep, the occasional lvl 50/60 kamaloka party and once or twice a week someone is friendly enough to make a "serious" lvl 50/60 alt party, probably to take a day off on the main and regen vitality. But apart from that, the new guy with the 50/60 main is pretty much on his own. It's sad, but that's how it is. We have had quite a few discussions about this in our clan, with no real result. And well, it's a game and you cannot "force" people to log off their mains, stop their IT/FoG/HB party and log on their alts just so the new guy gets a party. People do what is fun for them, and these days for most this simply means playing their 78+ mains so they get those new high lvl skills and can craft their S/S80 stuff. Yes, we had clannies leave because they did not want to solo and could not find parties in their level range, even in our alliance. No, I do not know how to fix the situation.
That's why I can understand the "rush" to higher levels. The content of the lower levels is rushed through, but at this point in the life of the game that content would for most newer players mean soloing all the time anyway.
If you want pvp you need to level. Because other people do.
if you are lv 77 and you kill another lv 77 then he can't bring a lv 120 and get you back, when you kill someone lv 40 vs 40 he can bring a lv 77 and make your life miserable for a long time if he wants to.
Basically the reason that you have to be high level to pvp is because people are idiots and can't take a loss, and they will keep annoying you till they have "won".
If you don't care about PvP, then by all means, take all the time you want to level, mobs stay the same, and they wont summon a lv 80 mob to kill your level 40 character
I will be happy to share my ventrilo with you. Our requirement at the moment is that you are hilarious to talk to...about anything. Yes a lot of our time online is spent leveling, but no one will ever say "zomg you're only level...." and generally our pvp is all over the place. I will fight and die at any level to any level. I don't believe "bringing the big guns" makes the fight more enjoyable. Phoenix server if you want to be in on clan chat...and trust me with Dim in channel it's always worth it. I play the game to enjoy the company. I know there are not many of us but if you're looking for people who want to rip on each other and laugh until they cry...look no further.
To the op--the game was designed to incent level accomplishment.
"Getting higher" is foundational to the game. That in itself explains the rush to level.
A level 20 player can use things and do things and accomplish things and experience things that a level 5 player cannot.
From the SECOND beta subscription it was immediately obvious that more levels was 'good'.
In fact, the pressure stacks because when you see the marked advantage of lvl 40 over lvl 20--it makes you want to investigate 'stuff' and abilities for lvl 52.....and so on.
I'm not advocating a rush to level. I'm answering that it was inevitable because the game was designed that way--at it's foundation the game in intended to require significant subscription time ($$'s).
The way I see it most everything flows from there.
If anything the last 3-4 chronicle updates and flattened the curve and marginalized the low levels to the point of near irrelevence.
So in summary, players aren't somehow flawed because they are in a rush to level. Everything they experience in the game from a foundational perspective from the first moments they log in TEACHES them to WANT to level.
As for the poster in the clan feeling pressure to level--thank the game developers for that too in some ways. Certainly the clan might just be altruistic--in other words, if they are all A-grade and you're D-grade, they can't very well include you. To "help" you, they have little choice but to stop their focus on their main and roll onto a low alt--which though it would seem to be no big deal can, indeed, get to be old for those expected to do it.
So sure, some clans are actually thinking of you when they want you to level.
But many are also victims of the game system and recent developments too--depending upon their goals. If they are often a PvP target or have a core of PvP players--you're lowbishness (word?) makes you a problem for them. Too, they have advantages from leveling the clan with #s and increasingly need higher level players to do so--this makes that "spot" you're occupying sometimes valuable. Unfortunately (but understandably) some clans are rather calculating about their goals and you are either part of the solution or just an annoyance.
The answer to that situation is to find a clan of players that suit what you want to do! There are casual, small, large, neutral, PvP only, uber, RP and everything in between-groups.
A clan trying to grow to level 7 isn't "wrong" for wanting you to get the lead out. If that isn't what you want to do then find another clan.
If you want pvp you need to level. Because other people do.
if you are lv 77 and you kill another lv 77 then he can't bring a lv 120 and get you back, when you kill someone lv 40 vs 40 he can bring a lv 77 and make your life miserable for a long time if he wants to.
Basically the reason that you have to be high level to pvp is because people are idiots and can't take a loss, and they will keep annoying you till they have "won".
If you don't care about PvP, then by all means, take all the time you want to level, mobs stay the same, and they wont summon a lv 80 mob to kill your level 40 character
So basically what you're saying is that people shoot through the game to get to an even playing field in PvP. You've either been the victim of or the witness to someone that was higher level laying the smack down without the fear of any type of retribution. The only way to make sure you can give anyone their comeuppance is to be on equal ground and the only way to do that is to get to a level where there is hardly anyone above you.
The only problem with this is scenario is that the worse players have the most control over dictating the path of a game. The grind in L2 is designed to be hard to limit the speed at which a person levels, not just to keep people playing longer, but also to level out the playing field. I suppose that the idea of the majority of players sitting in front of a computer for hours at a time or having a 3rd party application play for them was just a foreign concept in the minds of the developers during the game's creation. In it's purest form, it would take a normal person with one account quite a bit of time to progress through the game. But then people wanted to get an edge on the next guy in pvp. So adena sales, 2 boxing, and 3rd party software was started to get edges in pvp. With the majority of the player population taking shortcuts, the game quickly degenerated into a first person shooter with one heck of a long training session before you get into the "real" game. Am I understanding this correctly?
If you want pvp you need to level. Because other people do.
if you are lv 77 and you kill another lv 77 then he can't bring a lv 120 and get you back, when you kill someone lv 40 vs 40 he can bring a lv 77 and make your life miserable for a long time if he wants to.
Basically the reason that you have to be high level to pvp is because people are idiots and can't take a loss, and they will keep annoying you till they have "won".
If you don't care about PvP, then by all means, take all the time you want to level, mobs stay the same, and they wont summon a lv 80 mob to kill your level 40 character
So basically what you're saying is that people shoot through the game to get to an even playing field in PvP. You've either been the victim of or the witness to someone that was higher level laying the smack down without the fear of any type of retribution. The only way to make sure you can give anyone their comeuppance is to be on equal ground and the only way to do that is to get to a level where there is hardly anyone above you.
The only problem with this is scenario is that the worse players have the most control over dictating the path of a game. The grind in L2 is designed to be hard to limit the speed at which a person levels, not just to keep people playing longer, but also to level out the playing field. I suppose that the idea of the majority of players sitting in front of a computer for hours at a time or having a 3rd party application play for them was just a foreign concept in the minds of the developers during the game's creation. In it's purest form, it would take a normal person with one account quite a bit of time to progress through the game. But then people wanted to get an edge on the next guy in pvp. So adena sales, 2 boxing, and 3rd party software was started to get edges in pvp. With the majority of the player population taking shortcuts, the game quickly degenerated into a first person shooter with one heck of a long training session before you get into the "real" game. Am I understanding this correctly?
almost.
the very fact that you MUST go through the levels 1-77 to play on an even field makes this game a far harder game than any FPS could ever be.
because those 78+'s CAN come hunt the level 1's, free of consequence.
it HURTS to loose exp in the high levels. thats primarily the reason those people try to get to the max level before beginning a major undertaking in mass pvp.
anyone can 1v1. it takes skill to win 9v9. 9 players worth of skill, actually.
anyone can fire a bow. it takes big levels, big gear, epics, and support to make that bow a tool of pain. can you imagine if they HADNT nerfed deathwhisper effects while stacked?
you dont HAVE to get the high levels to pvp. youre right. but if you want to WIN, youll need high levels.
Sometimes to understand the nature of a thing, I like to to try to get an understanding of its beginning. I've tried to apply this concept to L2 in an attempt to find out where it deviated from it's original purpose. I imagine that when the developers first put pen to paper in designing this game they envisioned a free roaming, player controlled land in which gamers could immerse themselves into dire conflict, resounding resolution, the bonds of friendship, the fires of war, the overwhelming excitement of victory, and the sobering resentment of defeat. This is how the game started, and for a time, it was a blast!
And then the inevitable happened. It's a story as old as the world itself. Someone figured out a way to subvert the original purpose and thus a new paradigm was born. L2 was no longer about any of it's founding principles (at least to the majority), it became all about leveling as quickly as you can by any and all means necessary. Now there are some who still play L2 in it's purest form, but these guys more often than not find themselves to be alone in the world surrounded by a scant few like-minded players. Many have adopted the idea that quickly leveling is all this game is about. And why do they do that? Because the general populace has been convinced that you can't have any meaningful pvp until you reach your high 70's. The ludricrous part of all this is, a level 77 vs a level 77 is about the same as a level 40 vs a level 40 or a level 6 vs a level 6. You don't live any longer in equal pvp based on level. Any longevity is all in quick healing pots, CP pots, or gear. This is the same at all levels in the game. So why the rush?
The game has degenerated into five or six choice pieces of armor, weapons, and upgrades for all levels. There's almost no variation in the game anymore. The game has become so cookie-cutter when it comes to leveling you can easily remove possibly 50% of the current game's armor choices, weapon choices and hunting grounds and no one in this game would be noticeably affected. I think it's time we all rethought how we ended up this way and take some steps to get it all back to formula.
Just my eight nickels.
good point, it goes to show the lack of planning that went into the game from the very begining - unless ofcourse the devs actually planned on having players reaching level 60+
So basically what you're saying is that people shoot through the game to get to an even playing field in PvP.
Not "to an equal playing field", but just "to matter".
You are constantly forgetting that L2 is not a 1 vs. 1 game. It's a clan vs. clan game. Where the clan that has more high levels, is better organized, is better equipped wins.
Sometimes to understand the nature of a thing, I like to to try to get an understanding of its beginning. I've tried to apply this concept to L2 in an attempt to find out where it deviated from it's original purpose. I imagine that when the developers first put pen to paper in designing this game they envisioned a free roaming, player controlled land in which gamers could immerse themselves into dire conflict, resounding resolution, the bonds of friendship, the fires of war, the overwhelming excitement of victory, and the sobering resentment of defeat. This is how the game started, and for a time, it was a blast!
And then the inevitable happened. It's a story as old as the world itself. Someone figured out a way to subvert the original purpose and thus a new paradigm was born. L2 was no longer about any of it's founding principles (at least to the majority), it became all about leveling as quickly as you can by any and all means necessary. Now there are some who still play L2 in it's purest form, but these guys more often than not find themselves to be alone in the world surrounded by a scant few like-minded players. Many have adopted the idea that quickly leveling is all this game is about. And why do they do that? Because the general populace has been convinced that you can't have any meaningful pvp until you reach your high 70's. The ludricrous part of all this is, a level 77 vs a level 77 is about the same as a level 40 vs a level 40 or a level 6 vs a level 6. You don't live any longer in equal pvp based on level. Any longevity is all in quick healing pots, CP pots, or gear. This is the same at all levels in the game. So why the rush?
The game has degenerated into five or six choice pieces of armor, weapons, and upgrades for all levels. There's almost no variation in the game anymore. The game has become so cookie-cutter when it comes to leveling you can easily remove possibly 50% of the current game's armor choices, weapon choices and hunting grounds and no one in this game would be noticeably affected. I think it's time we all rethought how we ended up this way and take some steps to get it all back to formula.
Just my eight nickels.
You were wrong from the beginning. L2 was never meant to be a sandbox, it was meant to be the hamster wheel which it still is. There was never any system put in place during the alpha or beta stages which would lead one to believe that players were meant to have a meaningful impact on the game world, nor was there ever any system for the gameworld to have a meaningful impact on the player. The only interaction you have with the game world has always been killing the same mob/player with the same set of actions over and over and over again. But players can only do this so many times before losing interest and moving on to try to find some more exciting game on the market.
The reason why we rush is because we are trying to find some non existent thing, chiefly fun. But L2 just doesn't allow us to control our characters to a sufficient degree. This click and autohit crap is more than likely the biggest reason. Every mob is killed in the same basic way with minimal player input. We think that the more we level the more skills we will get and perhaps eventually we will be able to subvert the autohit system. Obviously within the limited confines of this poorly designed game such a thing is truly impossible, but we still try. Perhaps in L3 NC will realize their folly and make the gameplay more akin to a Devil May Cry or something of that nature. But this is a complete deviation from the topic.
There are many ways to play L2, ranging from low lvl raids, RP, which some people still do, "just chatting in vent while grinding", etc...
However, the game was designed to be competitive about almost anything of value. There are obviously better and worse spots, there are many resources that you can't get to without musculing someone out of those...
Those things are all about the clan. Try for instance, to take a castle on Phoenix (I'm sure it's the same on all other servers), let's say, from such a pve ally like Unity. Even there you'll meet quite some resistance, and, trust me, around eighty pve players with half of them s-grade are sometimes too much even for a pvp clan. Now imagine that you want a siegeable clan hall, a fort, or some 2nd grade castle like Gludio. Expect to get a war the moment you show up there. And then it won't be about fun in levelling, it will be about your clan vs some other clan, and they won't care about your levels.
That's the thing - try to show up for Baium, and you'll get whacked just for the thought of doing an epic boss that 'belongs' to some of the big clans. And it does belong to them, if they can beat you to it.
So it's like that, really, quite simple: want to just play - fine, but want to compete for something, be ready to hold wars with those 77+ you mentioned. 'Cause it's not about honour or fun in pvp any more, it's about strategic assets, and nobody will care that your levels or clan member count are inferior and inadequate. Think before biting something, if you will be able to handle it.
Now, the game is not just about that, definitely, and I know many nice pve clans that play in mid 50s mostly, and don't wish for more. They are perfectly happy about it, and the only problems they get are the occasional troubles with some "big" clan (such as those that think they are worth something in pvp whereas they do everything just to never have any wars with FS or BHi, for instance, and therefore they only pick on the weak). Yes, if you're not planning to do pvp, be ready to leave your grind spot if a pvp clan member comes and asks. But it's quite unlikely, anyway, except for those 'fake pvp clans' that like bullying and are afraid of the real big fish.
So it's a choice you and your clan should make. Oh, and the nicest people I've met were/are still mostly around Dion. Curious, why? :)
nono, this thread contains so many if ridiculous posts, unrealized dreams and simply ugly ideas, so all these things need to be printed in a pocket book of soft 2-layer paper with perforation. lolz.
Every MMORPG evolves into a race-of-the-levels game after some time. First of all the "old" players are naturally rising in level as they play the game (so newer players are automatically lower in level if they don't speed themselves up). To actually experience something together with friends or clanmembers whose level gaps are immense the only ways are that either the higher one has an alt character he can use to play with you or you willingly play together with such a huge gap where you actually only get disatvantages.
The thing needed for this flaw would be some kind of mentoring-/sidekick-system like in CoH/CoV/EQ2
Another thing is, as you rise in levels you're as well able to visit new areas which are too dangerous for lower levels. Basically with each gained level you're able to visit more places all by yourself. You can explore more areas, you're generally stronger (as your stats are rising) and you're opening up more valuable ways of making money out of quite some things.
Then there is the PvP-aspect. Higher in level gives you automatically an advantage over your opponent as you have more/better skills (not the player skill) and your stats are higher (this depends on class as well though). While this advantage in stats is only slightly noticeable in a low gap it is really noticeable if you have a higher grade armor/weapon/jewelery and/or your character has one more class change than your opponent.
There is as well the drive to finally sub another class. Lineage2 so far is the only game I actually know of (besides Biosfear which is officially dead) where you almost never reach the end. Bringing your main class to the maximum level possible is almost impossible and even if it would be you can do the same on all suclasses. Even in theory if you'd succeed in this suicide-grind you can still try on the next OE level on your weapon/armor/jewelery.
But all togehter, this game as it is currently designed is not about getting the maximum level possible. It's about reaching a level where you can do just about anything you want with your friends/clan/alliance. Be it level 20 or level 78 just does not matters. Every player has his/her own imagination of L2 and how it is actually played. This implicts the goal they want to reach.
What you really can notice if you compare L2 to other MMORPG's is that it just has no end. In WoW you just grind to 70 and do PvP or PvE all the time to get the best equipment possible or you level a character to 19/29/39/49/59/69 and PvP only with them.
In the end it's all the same for most people: create a character, level it up, get the best equipment possible and try to make the best out of the character.
It's only that MMORPG's are not all about exactly this. You can as well roleplay, make money by trading/crafting and such. Everyone has his/her personal goal and a different inner drive.