Okay, just wondering a thing: For my BD should I have both +4 dex -4 str? Seeing as a BD is a support class I know I should be doing +4 dex because it's not about damage it's about critting and hitting as fast as possible, but I was wondering if doing +4 strength would do too much to my con? Any suggestions?
(For the record: If anyone says I should do only +4 strength I'm ignoring your statement, doing that would be silly because the dex is needed to up my crit rate and attack speed.)
Ok you guys aren't getting it, a BD is a support class not a DD class, their damage sucks already so it's all about their crits, unless someone can prove to me that it is better to go +4str -4con then i'll go for it, otherwise, I don't see the reason to + the strength when the BD isn't about doing damage.
Use l2calc (it is a bit out of date, but still very useful for basic comparisons like this).
I put in a lvl 80 SD with +4 S duals, IC set, lvl 78 Hierophant buffs (+zerk/PoF), Fire, Fury, Warrior and let it do the combat calculations against a test mob.
Conclusion: going +dex is not really worth it, because the bonus +dex gives is not really worth it. Compared to a no tattoo setup, damage/second actually goes DOWN if you go +dex/-str. Going -str is a big no-no on a bd, because a BD is not about crit rate, but about crit POWER. If you compare +dex/-con and +str/-con, the +str setup is the big winner - simply because a BD already has a huge base STR stat, so increasing it further gives a big boost (the higher your base stat, the bigger the boost you get from increasing it via a tattoo, compare e.g. +wit / casting speed on a SPS compare to a SH).
And a BD with the right setup and nice duals is actually a pretty decent damage dealer and VR tank for e.g. Pagans.
WTF are you on? You want dex because, and I'm quoting you now, "it's about critting and hitting as fast as possible".
And then you say "a BD is a support class not a DD class".
What exactly do you want crt rate and atk speed for if not for damage? Am I missing something? Do you need crt rate to stay alive longer? Do you want to sacrifice 4con for a meaningless decrease in dance and re-use time?
You simply don't make sense, sorry to be blunt.
If you want more damage go +str -con and forget dex. Dex is worthless in terms of damage when compared to str.
If you want more survival don't get any tats or +con.
If you want those 3-4 points of additional run speed then get +dex.
Oh and just for the record: Crit damage (on swings) is quite obviously directly proportional to patk. Some people don't seem to understand that.
Ok you guys aren't getting it, a BD is a support class not a DD class, their damage sucks already so it's all about their crits, unless someone can prove to me that it is better to go +4str -4con then i'll go for it, otherwise, I don't see the reason to + the strength when the BD isn't about doing damage.
At 71 I killed a 76 HE? :P
Now seriously.. if you keep the crits and have more damage.. its a lot more handy.. I've been soloing since 67 in WOA(Antelopes).. with Zerk and VR.. and only when I get 3+ Antelopes on me.. I need to use pots.. besides that.. I rarely lose more than 450 HP... out of 4100+ with Blessed Body 6.
If you want to go for Dex.. go.. but don't come and complain.. when you do 900 crits.. .when I do 1.5k+ :P
Nah dude no need to apologize for the bluntness that's exactly what i'm looking for in a response, i WANT people to be blunt, I hate it when people beat around the bush to make a point roflmao. See the mistake I made is, I didn't really see that the +4 dex is like... an extra .4 atk. speed hahahahaha. Yea i know guys i'm pretty stupid, however I am aware that crit damage is off of strength lol, anywho, it's really what whats-her-face (sorry forgot the name and don't wanna check) said that's making the point here... now i wonder how badly my HP would go down on that setup of +5str +4 dex... would that even be worth it at all or a waste of HP?
That really depends on what you are doing. Personally I consider +4str -4con to be the standard for BDs and based on that you can work out your prefferences.
If you really want to max your DPS you can add +1str +4dex so you'd have +5str +4dex. That would of course give you most damage but you will be heavily dependant on having good buffs.
When I lvled my BD sub I had +4str -4con the entire time and went with Tallum for A grade, that worked out really well and I didn't feel the need to have those 4dex since I had the atk speed from tallum and the crt rate from my OEd B duals.
Especially now with more mage crits and mobs that use SS I don't think it's wise to lower your con further, so I'd stick with +4 or +5 str and leave dex untouched.
Ok, I've got permanent 74 PP buffs on my buff account so that's not a problem for buffs... however in situations such as a quick PVP sounds like it would be better to just say screw it and leave my HP where it is (planning on going Tallum and +8% atk speed duals) so it looks like speed won't be a problem hahaha.
That really depends on what you are doing. Personally I consider +4str -4con to be the standard for BDs and based on that you can work out your prefferences.
Yes, that's what I am using, too. +4 str / -4 con, tallum heavy, tallum*dle duals. Decreasing con even further to add another +1 str and maybe +dex is tempting, but then HP *really* become a problem. It's all fine while you are hitting mobs, because VR makes sure that your hit points never really go down. But like you said, a mob getting lucky with a magic crit can then pretty much one-shot you - and let's not even talk about stun, already at -4 con it is ridiculous how often I get stuck in perma-stun when there are mobs which do AOE stun.
and let's not even talk about stun, already at -4 con it is ridiculous how often I get stuck in perma-stun when there are mobs which do AOE stun.
Yea lol. I helped a friend of mine do his 3rd class in HS on my BD. First I had my tallum and it was plain terrible, each mob stunned me at least once.
Then I made him lend me his maj heavy though and it worked fine :p
If I'd play my BD more regularely I'd perhaps consider switching to maj permanently, but as it is I pretty much only play it for raids and HB parties so I use my spare NM for some better survival. (and it saved my [censored] countless times already lol)
Yea lol. I helped a friend of mine do his 3rd class in HS on my BD. First I had my tallum and it was plain terrible, each mob stunned me at least once.
Then I made him lend me his maj heavy though and it worked fine :p
On that note then, should i do Tallum or Maj? I was planning on doing Tallum.
Tallum has the advantage that you hit faster and dance faster (quite noticable if you do 4 dances). Additionaly you can carry more shots and got the perfect resistances if you plan to hunt in FoD (which is a really nice spot).
Maj has the advantage that you have higher pdef, more accuracy (noticable if you hunt higher mobs) and stun resistance (good if you hunt in HS).
For strict DPS I'd choose tallum, I always really liked that set on my BD. But maj is a very valid alternative.
Nowadays I'm mostly in NM and health duals tho because as I said I mainly play my BD for HB parties and raids. And my dmg matters less than my survival there^^ (I'm only 75 on that sub)
Whatever you do, I would NOT recommended +dex as far as end game goes.
Many go +str, some even go +con, but +dex even though it seems like a good idea, is not that great. The crit and attk speed increase you get just isn't a huge leap in what you are sacrificing for it. (especially with what little CON BD's have naturally). Check L2p if you do not believe me.
If you are going for a speed set-up, (tallum hvy + atk speed duals) that is more than enough of a speed boost. In that case +str - con would be best.
If you are going for a power/endgame set-up, (maj/IC hvy and tal*dle), I personally recommend +str -dex. Or even +con, +str, -dex.
Honestly, your main concern is STAYING ALIVE because you are the BUFFER. You dead does no one any good, so you wanna try and stay alive as long as possible to benefit the most ppl and have them do the killing.
Even so it's silly, unless you ONLY siege, and even so you shouldn't be doing debuffs, only dances. so really in any circumstance it's pretty silly, the debuffs help you in solo pvp... and after that you've got -8str so you can't kill your rooted hexed enemy... so you stand there and keep rooting them til they get frustrated and bsoe? Or you could always try to sting and drain health them til they die! yea! Sorry mate, you become a sitting duck in solo pvp cause you can't kill them.
I can only see a use of that in you duo pvping with a nuker, and even then you really only would need the root. imo, there's no need to gimp your strength that much, it hurts more than it helps; you need to hit the enemy eventually.
IMHO.. plain stupid....unless you want a WS att speed!
But you're also the one that said +dex is good for PVE...
which is just plain wrong, no matter how you look at it.
You hit for less damage than +str
You do less damage over time compared to +str
You use shots even faster due to your boosted atk speed, but no matter what buffs you get with a +dex setup, a +str setup will do more damage, and do more damage over time
+DEX will make you do less damage, at an INCREASED cost in shots
+dex is only viable as a damage increase when you have already hit you +5 STR cap
to answer the actual question
+4STR +4CON is viable, Bit strange setup imo.
would personally go either +4STR-4CON or all out +5str+4dex-9con
One of the bigger problems with -dex will be accuracy I suppose. But if you got the buffs or the lvls to balance it it should work out I guess, especially if you hunt at a spot where you don't have to move much (Pagan, IT, Catas and so on).
Too lazy to do a calc right now on the accuracy^^
edit: okok I did it, with -9dex you loose about 7 accuracy. I don't know how much you end up with tho because calc is not accurate at high lvls due to those accuracy/evasion boosts. Basically tho if you can afford to use inspiration you basically only lose 3 accuracy, which isn't all too drastic excpt for high evasion stuff. So it should work.
Kind of a late response, but I'm a level 80 BD. I PvE in Drac and PvP in IC. You can over enchant your dual mastery passive for attack speed. Mine's +9 and there is a noticable difference. In Drac with buffs, dances, and pof I have 818 attk speed. I don't know what it is when I'm in IC, but it's a nice compensation for not having attack speed bonus from the armor. I am also a fan of the +str - con tat set up. I laughed when I saw the earlier post about BDs not being DDs. Haha, I don't consider us anything else. :)
No, still Suggan. It was Suggy for about a day after server merges because I didn't understand the box that appeared when you tried to login. I thought it meant I'd lost my name. My clan calls me Suggy though. :)
Have you made your decision yet cause there's a ton of answers here. Some are HORRIBLE but some are pretty good. :cool: If you need a 50th opinion I'm game...