Hello everyone.
I know this is something that has been discussed a lot and most people know this already but I want to share my thoughts about it, and want to know if I am the only one to think like this.
This is a post about the Lineage community, the players that make Lineage to what it is.
Cheating has turned in to something that is accepted and that no one cares about, and it is getting worse as time goes by.
In almost every clan that I have been in its been accepted to cheat if you are high level and if you bring fame and PvP wins to the clan.
People laugh at me if you say that you play legit and that you don’t want go all the way to the top by playing un-legit. The constant frase I hear over and over is
“Everybody does it” so why shouldn’t you? “
Before It was only the adena farmers that used progs to make automated play but now it has turned in to a easy way to fame and high level content.
It does not even stop at that, when they reach high level content they cheat to win with other progs.
I know that almost 90% of the people that read this post will only think either “old news get over it or leave” or “pff nobody cares”
Is it only me that is feed up with this?Is this ever gonna turn around?
Well, you're not alone. I've been playing for quite some time, and can honestly say that I've done it all on my own. I may not be some uber pally (if that even exists... lol), but I've enjoyed the trip, and I know I've still got a long ways to go :) Anyway, it may be "accepted", but not by all.
Your not totally alone theres still a few of us that are sticking it out and hoping for change. Never going to happen, but u know wishful thinking and all :p
Anyways just looking at these forums u see so many retired CM QA etc ppls that its no wonder ncsoft doesnt fix the problem. At this rate i wonder how many staff they even have left. Theres probably one lil midget running around duct taping the servers together while typing the petitions ppls submit ingame with his toes.
You are certainly not alone in these feeling Leon.
It's hard sometimes, to remain legit, and look at all the high level players, hoping to someday be apart of that, just to have them all laugh and call you noob for not cheating.
While there are a lot of fool cheaters out there, there also exists a good core of honest, decent players. They are worth hunting for. If you ever move over to Sayhe I will be glad to hook you up.
Only thing you can do now is Hope Omega turns it around now that he's in charge or quit :(
Me I already quit but I have time left on my Account. I just hope it's enough time For Omega 2 turn it around.
Hope eh. Omega isn't a new face around here... safe money is to expect the status quo from the company man who has been "working" on the same problem for the past 5 years.
Never having been exactly a fan of your Leonider, you're right in your OP.
The answer to the question you posed is "you are **** near completely alone".
And as tragic as that is--what is more pathetic is the apathy surrounding ebaying and botting and other haxxx.
You said it pretty close to dead on when you suggested nobody cares--cause very, very few still do.
My son recently left our clan and joined a prominent one (he wanted 'more pvp')--he was confronted with his unwillingness to cheat almost immediately. He found a 2nd clan--and though it wasn't basically demanded of him, he certainly understood nearly everyone in that prominent clan was cheating too. For all intents he has quit now--after grinding and working to hit 64.
This willingness to win at any cost (which certainly includes ebaying and botting) has pervaded the game almost completely. Basically if the other toon runs by you and they are glowing and have a weapon that hurts to look at--then they cheated like hell to get there.
Sure, I'm unable to say "always" and "all"--but whatever the % is it's pretty **** high.
So pervasive in fact that now EVERYONE cheats--newbies, lowbies, ubers......everybody.
I've said it before, it's simply amazing that of all the thousands of toons running around with 3 billion adena worth of gear equipped, that not 1 in 100 can tell you any credible way they manufactured that money in the game.
They say stupid [censored] like: "Oh, I manored....made 100 million in 3 days...", or the classic, "my buddy (unnamed) left and gave me all this".
Seriously to all of you who have 1 billion or more in gear and cheated like crazy to get it--at least come up with something plausible! It embarrasses ME to listen to those weak explanations from you.
There are a couple of places out there where real players--those with talent--can find like people. Look for them and celebrate the fact that you know what you're doing and accomplishing together. Personally, I have a lot of fun when our group needs to find a recipe somewhere that we don't really belong! Searching and working together and failing and then finally 'winning'--that makes the game worth logging in to.
Or do what most do--grab a credit card and get back to the siege field. Important stuff being done there....by posers, pretenders, and failures. Cause the other dirty little secret no one wants said here?
Those heroes and uber PvPers in the top clans? They CAN'T play the game legit. It's not possible for them. If they had to gear up with what they made in the game they'd be lvl 65 with a light crossbow and clan oath. They don't know HOW. They don't have the intelligence. They don't have the skill. They don't have the willpower.
For them it's cheat or quit--cause playing legit won't get them to l33t pwnage speak on hero chat.
The game its self encouraging such things... Stupid armor/weapon rcp quests with 2 items/hour, random factor and at the end chance to fail, dualboxing which basicaly means to create or find a party for new players is close to imposible, because you can see tons of players with their own buffers. So players who has no buffers are left behind.
And I'm always laughting from players who're saying the game is ok, just be a bit hardcore. But they have 2 to 4 buffers which makes game ok for them, but if you dont have the game is not ok. Anyway I dont think that they understand that. For me it took 6 or 7(I started exploration quest at the end of Kamael) months and I've lvl from 57 to 73 while i got my tallum set crafted and unsealed. And I'm glad that in gracia common jewelery was introduced, because I still would be wearing luxury C jewels.
Join a better clan then. I have a Box buffer and I have to ask for a day to hunt alone with my buffer. everyday My clan has something going on. Hell we do a Fortress every day and my buffer is right there keeping us buffed and healed.
The game its self encouraging such things... Stupid armor/weapon rcp quests with 2 items/hour, random factor and at the end chance to fail, dualboxing which basicaly means to create or find a party for new players is close to imposible, because you can see tons of players with their own buffers. So players who has no buffers are left behind.
And I'm always laughting from players who're saying the game is ok, just be a bit hardcore. But they have 2 to 4 buffers which makes game ok for them, but if you dont have the game is not ok. Anyway I dont think that they understand that. For me it took 6 or 7(I started exploration quest at the end of Kamael) months and I've lvl from 57 to 73 while i got my tallum set crafted and unsealed. And I'm glad that in gracia common jewelery was introduced, because I still would be wearing luxury C jewels.
This game is a MMO, it's meant that you should find other people to party with to reatch your goals.
Sure I box a SE sometimes if I can't find an active one, but that is only because there are almost no live buffers left in the game.
It took me 2 years to become noble (75/75) and another half a year to reach 76 on my main class and on my main.
Try to solo without buffs in gc or TOI, its imposible. Usually I was in party with WC or BD, but then you're playing 2-3 hours a day, it takes 2 weeks to get 1 set of quest items and then due to random dont get tallum plate rcp. Sometimes it took me quite a lot time to make a party. Well I was not angry about stupid quest, I was angry about that if you have litle time to play it's just imposible for you unless you have a 2nd account and as I said if you dont want to have 2nd account as I you're left behind.
Why does NCSoft never give a clear answer when it comes to cheating and bots? They avoid the subject as much as possible... I would never play this corrupted game if there weren't my friends
This game has the worst community I've ever seen :)
Try to solo without buffs in gc or TOI, its imposible. Usually I was in party with WC or BD, but then you're playing 2-3 hours a day, it takes 2 weeks to get 1 set of quest items and then due to random dont get tallum plate rcp. Sometimes it took me quite a lot time to make a party. Well I was not angry about stupid quest, I was angry about that if you have litle time to play it's just imposible for you unless you have a 2nd account and as I said if you dont want to have 2nd account as I you're left behind.
Why do you think the grind is so hard in L2 compared to other games?
Quests to get items is L2 for me, I wouldn't had played this game if I could get all I needed for an armor in 2 days.
It isnt/It wouldn't be hard as far as you have buffs, but even playing on teon(most populated server of all) To make a party takes some time, because almost every1 has it's own buffers. Well I'm not talking about 74+ content, atm I'm always in clan parties so its not hard.
But I'm talking from experience how I made up to 74, it was not easy. And that's why most of ppl bots, ebuy and so on.
EDIT: and if in case if dont want to have a clan and you prefer solo game, l2 rejects you imidiatly.
You are not alone. Been here sense April 2004. I have seen the cheaters come and go. Bots changed names, but are still run by the same company. Went from having a live GM ingame to no GM's at all. NCNA having ok customer service to worst customer service next to Veriz.
It is a shame that live buffers are all but gone from this game. I know first hand how hard it is to get groups as any Healer class. I've played them all. (OL,WC,SE,PP,EE)
Most people now adays treat this game like some Xboxx game they buy. They want to get to the end in a week.
If you want to be here in 2 or 3 years with some good friends. You should go fine a group that plays like you do. They are out there. Not every1 has gone to high level the way some here would lead you to think.
Ultimately there are two types of people in the world; the honest and the disshonest. I could write a very long book on the differences between the two, but I'll save you the trouble of reading it and just say that the honest people not only work for what they have, but that the process of working toward their goals have meaning to them, a meaning which is lost on other types.
This translates directly into L2. the people who draw some sense of accomplishment from actually earning what they have are (just like in RL) a very small minority. But that doesnt mean that they must play by any set of rules but their own.
I have played this game for a very long time and I have never pruchased adena, used a 3rd party program, or in any way violated the EULA. And I've had a blast playing. a handful of my friends also play L2 and we have nothing but fun together -all in the same clan, all hunting / raiding / exping together and not realy giving much thought to what other people do with their game.
Sorry. I rambled... I do that.
What I mean to say is that while you are a minority in wanting to play Legit, you are still able to enjoy every part of the game that others do and youll be able to do it knowing that you earned every item in your inventory and every point of exp.
What you suffer from is playing on a server with a very small population of legit players. Teon is rough... its the biggest server by far and has a long history of very competative players. (so competative that they often cheat to win).
Smaller servers with much less to offer can boast slightly larger quantities of legit players but they are often isolated and play alone becouse they don't like playing with cheaters or vise versa.
My suggestion to you is to find legit people to surround yourself with. People who think like you about what is and is not legit and you'll soon find that the problem of cheating just stops being important.
if you need help finding any players that are legit pm in game and I will offer any help I can.
the official forums are the bad side of the l2 community. Nothing but a bunch of bitter cubical workers who never play the game but rant about it while they are suppose to be doing their irl job...
I wanna to add you guyz to my friends list so when i'll reach your lv i'll can join you in a party ad have fun! ^^
Can't we open a thread where legit-players list will write? Or could this thread become that thread? Thanks a lot!
PS: You give me a little more hope to enjoy playing L2 in Teon.
Actually I am juggling playing alts so that I have characters low level enough to play with some of the newer clan mambers so when I said "pm me in game" what I meant was... "send me a private messege here on the forums or mail me in game."
Then why don't you stop posting in them if you think they're the bad side of the community?
Troll.
Oh, would you ignore someone who was ranting and raving outside of your favorite hang out, or would you kindly tell them to shut the hell up? You guys are bad and someone needs to come around occasionally and remind everyone else that you don't represent the ingame community, and that you generally don't have a clue about what's going on even though you try your hardest to pretend differently. Ncsoft should activate the ingame community forums and host their event feed backs there. They would get much more useful feedback. If they actually cared about the community they would, but they are content to get their field data from the rabble that pollute the offical forums. You guys are predictable and easily controlled and that's convenient.
I am glad to see that there are some humans left in Lineage2.
Although most of the Lineage2 content is out of my reach, I like this game very much and I'll play it only using "the game".
I, for one, can't be happy if I cheat because that would mean I'm not good enough to get something normaly, and that means I am a worst player than the ones who got the same thing without cheating.
So even if I can't get all the stuff that I need I waste more time manoring to get it.
and by the way I am not like the ones that tell you that they got 100kk in 3days type .....the best I could do was 30kk in one sell but I gathered fruit in 3 days and than it took me another 3 days to get lucky enough to get them sold to a castle; because it was the max number that the castle bought.
ofcourse now you can make more than 50kk with the same fruit ....due to mats price going sky high.
Many people I see with great gear look at me and say I cheat becasue they see the spoil effect on a kamael(who can't ever subclass a spoiler) :D so yes some of the "top players" don't even know what manor is, and since I am not that lucky, to enchat weapons and sell them, manor is my best money maker.
Then why don't you stop posting in them if you think they're the bad side of the community?
Troll.
Oh, would you ignore someone who was ranting and raving outside of your favorite hang out, or would you kindly tell them to shut the hell up? You guys are bad and someone needs to come around occasionally and remind everyone else that you don't represent the ingame community, and that you generally don't have a clue about what's going on even though you try your hardest to pretend differently. Ncsoft should activate the ingame community forums and host their event feed backs there. They would get much more useful feedback. If they actually cared about the community they would, but they are content to get their field data from the rabble that pollute the offical forums. You guys are predictable and easily controlled and that's convenient.
So what are you saying, that the cheating is not as spread out as I think? Am I wrong about this?
no, but with current state of L2 you shouldnt be worried about the players playing, be worried about the players not playing. the ones quitting and never coming back. if lineage2 has no more players it will not be fun. legit or unlegit
no, but with current state of L2 you shouldnt be worried about the players playing, be worried about the players not playing. the ones quitting and never coming back. if lineage2 has no more players it will not be fun. legit or unlegit
ofc we both agree on that more players equals more fun.
But there is two ways i guess, people leave becuse that there is to much cheating, and if all the people left that cheated there would be alot less people.
I for one think that the player base would be alot bigger if there were less people cheating.
You are not a lone at all and I feel your pain. It's very frustrating to the small percentage of honest players/clans left. Most of the honest players I've known over the years simply left the game due to this fact or moved on to other games. After playing 3+ years for around an average of 3 to 6 hours a day while others do the same in months and you can't be competitive with them just plainly sucks.
I still do enjoy the game so I continue to play but after the server mergeres, I've been re-evaluating the decision to do so as enjoyment has gone way down in the aspect of grinding. Hunting areas and Ancient Adena earning is quite difficult in areas due to vast number of these auto players consuming all the mobs. Kind of sad actually but I know it will probably always be like this to a large degree.
Part of me just wishes NC would just implement auto-hunting utilities in game and let everyone auto-level up but I really don't want that because I actually like playing the game other than the pvp side and enjoy the accomplishment of getting to be higher level. If the auto players bother you that much I'd suggest finding another game since I doubt it will ever change to a significant degree where honest players would be satisfied. Maybe I am wrong and I truly hope I am. Or maybe a lot more banning will occur to off set or thin out the large number of leet players. Fingers crossed.
I wish you luck and remember, it's just a game and if it's not fun to play anymore spend your money on better entertainment.
more players and there will be more competition for everyone big and small, in reality just merge all the servers until we have 2-3 left of the Us servers
no, but with current state of L2 you shouldnt be worried about the players playing, be worried about the players not playing. the ones quitting and never coming back. if lineage2 has no more players it will not be fun. legit or unlegit
This is nothing to worry about. It is common knowledge that the type of people who buy their acounts from otheres are the same type of people who get borred very quickly with them. They buy a Hero account for few weeks, maybe a month or two in rare cases, and then they sell it to some other fool. Thoese people leaving the game make no difference to myself or any other legit player. Realistically L2 has ten years or MORE of healthy gaming left in it. MMOs like this don't just die off. There are countless little free MMOs that wither and die by the month and never see more than a few thousand players. The big MMOs simply don't die... they will go on until the company that makes them no longer make enough proffit to keep up the servers.
And as far as the standard playerbase goes... the ratio of people laving / joining the game has always been a joke. For players in NA like myself, Lineage II was an obscure find;
WoW is the largest an most successful MMO in the United States with no competition. Lineage II is the largest and most successful EVERYWHERE ELSE. Wow advertises and L2 does not. It is not shocking that more players leave than join on the US front. That is simply not true in Korea/Japan/SEA.
And now, that is going to change in the US as well. Omega as very clearly stated for all of us that L2 is changing its game up here in the US. the formation of NC West promises to advertise and lead campaigns to increase awareness of the game and appeal to new customers.
When faced with the choise every sane player will choose L2. WoW has been on top here in the US becouse the only option available asa substitute until now has been EQ... please.
When NC West gets its wheels turning all this BS talk of Lineage being on its last leg will be forgotten. The players leaving are not going to concern anyone.
I am sorry for the long post but I hate it when I see people making posts about stuff like that. "boo hoo my friends quit playing" or "Lineage II is just going to die when Aion comes out". and so on. Clearly the people who post these things are clueless as to how a MMO market works. In all of MMO history there have been 3 lading games (L2 / Wow / EQ) and there has NEVER been a game to even come close the number of clients they pull in. They take Millions of dollars every year to maintain and bring in hundreds of millions in proffit. No sane company would ever abandon a project that brings in 100 million a year, no matter how many products they release after it. Hell, point and case, lineage 1 is still playable.
There were we... a party of 9. Some of us returning, some others exploring Lair of Antharas for the first time. All buffing and preparing up for the action. Our MA running to get agro mobs attention and the rest of the party supporting and assisting to rapidly finish our enemy. Ppl were happy, we were enjoying the game. Then a smaller party just looked at us and spoke in general chat "look... more bots"...
We all laughed and talked to the guy a little bit. We have no need to proove we were real, because you could tell we were real. Not a train runned by some dwarf, but actually 9 players working their own way to reach for the same objective. We continued regardless of the comments and the bot parties that wander 24/7 in that place.
The thing is... the game has been so perverted that most ppl thing gathering a 9 man party to grind is impossible, therefor they are botters... This is sad. There are a lot of legit players around, but they are only drowned by the comments of those real cheaters. Who's legit and who's a cheater... this is hard to tell by first sight. But when you get to know your clanmates and see them lvl up with you you KNOW who's legit and who's not.
This is not only NC's job. We all must contribute to making a better community, an honest community. New players doen't get a chance to be something now. What happens when new players reach S grade? It takes a lot of time, so ppl that were S grade already when the new player joined will be out of their league, maybe in S80 with RB jewels and +16 weapons. Is this encouraging for new players? I don't think so, and that's why ppl leave. I like the new idea they've come up with aion: whenever a clan or an alliance get's too strong, some npc's come to make their life uneasy and restore balance... Maybe we need something like that, coz right now the way the game has taken, only benefits more cheaters than real players, and I'm sure we all here are ****** off by that.
more players and there will be more competition for everyone big and small, in reality just merge all the servers until we have 2-3 left of the Us servers
More merges = more bots per server = less people joining and more people leaving. Bad for the game.
I'm out there on Sayha and I have been very very lucky.
No botting, no cheating and a single account (Main a BH no less) and I have just made Noble (sub Bishop). This is because I have had the help of great Clans and Friends. People that have let me join in their parties despite knowing that I am a XP leach due to class (though I have contributed some from spoiling and healing). We are friends and we enjoy each others company. No secret to that formula. I do tend to play way too much, something that is slowing changing, so maybe I am not typical.
As far as gear, I thank my Clans again because Shadowstorm pretty much outfitted me from C Grade to A Grade. I didn't have to spend adena or mats on the C and B grade stuff that I used until about lvl 70 on my main. I still wear Phoenix jewelery, including a common earring, because that is what I could gather recipes and mats for. Figs helped me get soul crystals leveled past 10 (I leveled BUNCHES to lvl 10 myself) and A Grade mats (Spoiler is good for that btw). My WS alt is entirely outfitted with common stuff that dropped for my main.
It was just recently that I acquired my first "glowing" weapon (+4), I decided to use all the enchants I am getting via the cube thingie, selling off the +5 d and c grade stuff to get enough adena to get the occasional A Grade weapon. I kinda chicken on the A grade stuff, but I have tried a number of times (The meteor shower that broke on +4 hurt).
Again, I am sure I am not the typical player, but I am legit. Certainly "under geared" and a "non factor" for the cheating types, but I am having a great time.
Having said all that, I agree with the poster that most of the cheaters don't really bother me. My friends and I are having a good time and that's all that matters. What DOES bother me is the cheaters that bot their way to hero status only to harass the "n00bs" and then cry because there isn't any PVP for them.
"Why don't you fight??? Just because we have the complete epic jewel set and +10 S80 armor, you BSOE from us... Whaaaaa...
And by the way +10 weapons or no balls"
That bothers me, but then again not that much because they will get bored and move on to another server or another game at some point. My friends and I will still be non-factors, but will still be here and still having fun.
This used to only bother me when they afk took up hunting spots or when I've been in pvp with opponents who were clearly cheated up and auto spamming/targeting/logging/whatever. That died down to where I can find a few places to hunt afker free. I'm at a good place with my gear to where more is just fluff. My clan now is a bunch of old foggies who are so far below the radar we're covered in mushrooms lol.
But over the past few years I've seen clannies get bit by the bug. And you know what? I have less respect for them. I feel like we can no longer share each other's accomplishment. I can't bring myself to say gratz on drops when all they did was start a program and go to work/bed. I cant say gratz when some clannies hit 76 on their subs cuz i know they weren't there all that time doing it themselves or had their OOP auto support with them when they were running live. A +1 pvp when u have an auto healer is just meh. It's not jealousy. Its just that the sense of comraderie is gone.
I avoid some long time friends now and I choose solo over partying with them. I can 3 box my superbuffer trio bd/se/pp by hand and do fine in lots of high lvl places on my own. I have options for other clans. But despite the distancing it would be hard to let go of some friendships i've had for yrs. Anybody have Dr. Phil's number?
I'm not going to jump in on the debates that I'm sure have spawned here...I'm replying to the poster who began this thread. :)
You're not alone. My husband and I and our clannies, though our clan is very small, all play legit. We've stuck with that focus and have kicked members in the past for cheating. We refuse to cave and go with what 'everyone else' is doing. We just keep chugging along, playing the game and having fun. And I have to say, it's VERY rewarding to know that every level, every bit of adena, every piece of gear, was something we obtained on our own with hard work and planning. I figure there's no point to paying money for what's supposed to be a 'game' if you're just gonna cheat. Besides, cheating is just like lying...it's wrong! I don't care what anyone says to rationalize it. It's been especially sad to me as I've watched countless friends 'sell their soul' to cheating...and then they try to 'recruit' us into doing it. Kind of reminds me of a fable about a fox who lost its tail...I think the motto was something like 'misery loves company'? ^_^
Anyway, even though it's a 'dying art' to play legit, power to you and everyone else that keeps doing it. :)
I am not incensed at the amount of cheating that goes on. I kinda ignore them because it's just not the way I do it, as I play the game for entertainment and the way I'm entertained is to actually play it :) -- although, with the new level caps and gears that I need, it is a bit overwhelming. I don't consider myself better than the "cheaters", nor do I consider myself less than them or stupid and idiotic for not using the same tactics.
I think that everyone has become too obsessed with the problem, that we all know that NCSoft is the one who has to take care of it, and there's not much we can do beyond reporting them if we see them and want to. There are too many threads on this forum that address it, and too many of the threads on other subjects get turned into threads complaining about cheating.
In the meantime, if I need to clear a room in a cata for myself, I will do it.... and it even adds a little pvp fun to my baby BD. :cool: :D ;)
I did most of my leveling up on my main in a small family-like clan. I was undergeared, a little poor, and we worked together to help each other get what was necessary to play. It created a great bond between us that I am very thankful for. In contrast, my subclass I leveled in a big PvP clan. I did most of it with friends in the same clan that were doing the same thing, leveling up their subs to become noble, and it created a great bond between us that I am very thankful for.
It could be that the fun of the game is taken away for you because you are too busy paying attention to somebody else's business instead of your own.
Cause without hesitation I'll tell you I **** sure am 'better' than all those who cheat....every single one of them and in every facet of the game.
Cheating (even 'just a little') erases ALL achievement that follows. It makes it all meaningless and indicates that the cheater was lacking and incapable. Period.
No apologies from me on that point. I agree with on the rest--but I am absolutely convinced I'm better than the cheaters, and I don't care if they glow and are CL for the biggest castle-owning PvP clan on the server. Since they cheated to get there......yeah, I'm better than they are.
Botting - The use of third-party programs to automate the leveling,item gathering process or for pvp of a user's character or avatar inside the game.
First time: Char Freeze 1 Hour and Send to GM Room
Second time: Char Freeze 2 Hours and Send to GM Room
Third time: Char Freeze 3 Hours and Send to GM Room
Forth time or more: 1 Day Character Ban
They think if they punish too hard the players will cancel account but they forgot the 500 000 players who cancelled account or never bought the game because they didn't punish hard enough.
Common questions on online game forums are like "Oh I want to get back to L2 but is it still overrun by bots?"
They think if they punish too hard the players will cancel account but they forgot the 500 000 players who cancelled account or never bought the game because they didn't punish hard enough.
Common questions on online game forums are like "Oh I want to get back to L2 but is it still overrun by bots?"
These are the WoW type players to be honest. Lineage2 is a game that DEMANDS a TON of free time or you have to bot. Thats the only way around it.