As we all know the economy in real life is quite out of control atm., however, this also seems to be the case on Teon.
Over the last two months all items have risen in price. We are not just talking about a few thousand adena, we are talking millions and millions, and going up as I write these letters.
Say e.g. A grade sets; they went from 90m-120m to 250m-350m in just one month.
The price on material has skyrocketed; 30K for sop, 6K varnish, etc.
The price on soul crystals have gone up with 100m or so.
And so on....
I find it increasingly hard to get hold of materials, since people with walker programs always get the best seeds or all seeds, not to mention handing them in. So I almost never get materials from the manor system. Furthermore, buying material from the market is so costly atm. that the actual price of making a weapon seems to exceed the market price, thus pushing the price on items further up.
What can be done? I think we need a little divine intervention soon, because this crisis we are only making worse everyday.
Suggestions:
• Make it so that there is no limit to how many seeds can be bought or sold at the manor. Then maybe people can actually gain something from it. Make it so that seeding does not interfere with drop rate.
• Increase the drop rate and quantity of material from monsters. Maybe even add material drops to raid bosses. Change the drop rate back to chronicle II and III, where you got more of the same material when it dropped, regardless of the location.
• Buying of Soul Crystals 11-14 in the luxury store, of course for a high price, so that raiding the raid bosses for crystals still pays off. But limiting the price so that stage 12 doesn’t exceed 200m+
• Mammon selling EWS/EAS
• Remove common items, and reintroduce normal item drops, but keep the drop rate.
These suggestions would result in (maybe):
1. Market prices would decrease; “people would resist this because they are too greedy to care, now that their Tallum heavy sets have gone up with 200% in price.”
2. Less e-baying; cheaper items means that more people can afford to get good gear.
3. More overenchanting; more crystals
4. Stronger players; more raiding and pvp
These are only some small suggestions from a devoted Lineage II player, who is going “[censored]”, each time I look at a shop on Teon server
lol. But the oper is on to something, manor needs a revamp and needs to buy back alot more than its currently buying. Major difference between the amount of fruit bought back vs whats havested (saying 10 fruit leftover to 1 thats bought back on merged servers might not be a stretch). Drop tables have been [censored] since c3, even before c3 they weren't all that and need to be redone badly, including full drops :p Think you're already asking for alot from the dev team with those 2 things alone.
teon prices general trend is to be quadruplied,
and they keep going up,
if ncsoft doesn't do anything wonder how long the new
players that shoud be attracted by the new update
will play till quitting.
probably till lv 6x,
when they will see that spoiling is almost useless,
making aa in cata is almost impossible,
using the manor system is impossible,
and buying from the market is impossible.
Thank you Jkoster, I have sent the message to the support team.
I don't think it's a lot to ask too much Alex. It is in their best interest as well as ours. They are here to make money, we are here to have fun. If the product is currupted they won't make money and we will be discouraged to play, because it becomes impossible to reach even the smallest goals, at least for us who does NOT use our credit card to get where we wanna go.
- I think the Design teams should take some time to revisit the Manor System, as it currently benefits only 3rd party program users.
- Removing common items I don't see changing much, just casuing a fuss as many people make it through D grade exclusively on Common items.
- The drop rate is NC's pet. Not ours. They have it the way they want it and changing it to appease us would do more harm than good.
- RBs dropping large quantities of base or compound mats would be nice, though it would honestly have only a small effect when stacked against the thousands of bots gathering mats while we all sleep.
- I don't think Mammon should sell EWS/EAS becouse they are obtainable in other ways (olympiad). And becouse high end content should be harder to get than low end. And I think the same goes for the Soul Crystals.
Your complaint it genuine and does need to be adressed, but these suggestions are not fixes or solutions, they are just going to mask the systoms. To be honest, the economy on Teon is becouse of the players on Teon. The game was designed to facilitate a "player run economy" and that is what we are seeing... having NCsoft step in to regulate the cost of items would essentially be making a socialist economy, and I much prefer the freee economy in which I can charge what I like for my items and players can take it or leave it. I like the control and I like te proffit that it makes possible.
Your first suggestion was the greatest. Re-engineer the manor system to greater effect with no limits... or enormously larger limits, making it acessable to players who objec to using illegal programs.
Playing on Teon is is a unique experience... just try to weather the storm and ride it out. Make a proffit if you can. Prices fluxuate and always will... buy low sell high is how it goes. Rather than worrying about things being to expensive... sell your A grade sets and Weapons while they are worth 4-6x what you paid and buy them back when the prices fall... its a very easy poffit of serveral hundred million adena.
Thank you Jkoster, I have sent the message to the support team.
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to stop you from getting a discussion going. However, since you're trying to address concerns with support. Support folks are best contacted via the e-mail.
Unfortunately, I also think that because we exist in a player-controlled market condition, in which the players are able to set whatever prices they want, we won't see much of a positive response to your request.
I suspect that instead we'll see "This is not a place for support to get involved."
Guys the hole economy think is just based on a bug(or 2 bugs) they r fixing both in gracia part 2! just hope that the economy can come to normal back again after that!
Guys the hole economy think is just based on a bug(or 2 bugs) they r fixing both in gracia part 2! just hope that the economy can come to normal back again after that!
- I think the Design teams should take some time to revisit the Manor System, as it currently benefits only 3rd party program users.
- Removing common items I don't see changing much, just casuing a fuss as many people make it through D grade exclusively on Common items.
- The drop rate is NC's pet. Not ours. They have it the way they want it and changing it to appease us would do more harm than good.
- RBs dropping large quantities of base or compound mats would be nice, though it would honestly have only a small effect when stacked against the thousands of bots gathering mats while we all sleep.
- I don't think Mammon should sell EWS/EAS becouse they are obtainable in other ways (olympiad). And becouse high end content should be harder to get than low end. And I think the same goes for the Soul Crystals.
Your complaint it genuine and does need to be adressed, but these suggestions are not fixes or solutions, they are just going to mask the systoms. To be honest, the economy on Teon is becouse of the players on Teon. The game was designed to facilitate a "player run economy" and that is what we are seeing... having NCsoft step in to regulate the cost of items would essentially be making a socialist economy, and I much prefer the freee economy in which I can charge what I like for my items and players can take it or leave it. I like the control and I like te proffit that it makes possible.
Your first suggestion was the greatest. Re-engineer the manor system to greater effect with no limits... or enormously larger limits, making it acessable to players who objec to using illegal programs.
Playing on Teon is is a unique experience... just try to weather the storm and ride it out. Make a proffit if you can. Prices fluxuate and always will... buy low sell high is how it goes. Rather than worrying about things being to expensive... sell your A grade sets and Weapons while they are worth 4-6x what you paid and buy them back when the prices fall... its a very easy poffit of serveral hundred million adena.
This just reminds me 8 months ago, when you're 6x with FP + sls and 6 mils in your inv. It's so easy to make a few hundred mills of profit, I just cant believe it!
/sarcasm
No offence but old players who mainly discuss here they think that this game is quite ok atm, but they're looking from their point of view. Which is stupid.
This just reminds me 8 months ago, when you're 6x with FP + sls and 6 mils in your inv. It's so easy to make a few hundred mills of profit, I just cant believe it!
/sarcasm
With a capital of 70m I make 17% (more than 11m) pure profit. Per day. With a level 62 toon.
Back to the topic people. You can discuss who is the better linguist in another forum.
The point is that the prices on Teon go up each day; steel is now being sold for 65.000, and bought in buy shops at 40K. Have you tried calculating the cost of making any item at the current prices? I am too afraid to do that. But people are buying at that price, and making items like never before. Where is the money coming from? I'd like to say that my economy is quite good, and I am the owner of 6 A-grade armour sets, so if all, I should be thrilled at the current development. But I am not. I am just pointing out that the way the prices are going, soon no one will be able to craft or buy items, unless you are the "proud" owner of several trains harvesting the catacombs 24/7.
I do not believe that we should just ignore this. There might not be that many newcomers to Lineage II, but for their sakes and for ours I really hope that the financial situation changes.
ive seen masterwork IC, Arcana, Draconic armors on sale, seen Masterwork acana mace, FB, BB, and masterwork SOM, Soulbow, and several sets of masterwork BO and Taetossian.
and for all that the price of superior items has only increased by 10-25 mil since pt.2
I see only one solution for this crysis. Increase seeds and crops current limit by at least 10 times for month or so...
That of idiots need to stop paying the stupid prices for mats. People are only selling things for stupid prices, because people are actually buying them at those prices. If I have the mats, I would sell them for just as much too.
prices are a factor of what adena people have in hand. A couple of chronicles ago there were few people per server that had 2b+, nowadays every 78+ has maybe 4x 2b. Yes I m mostly talking about the euro servers.
I see only one solution for this crysis. Increase seeds and crops current limit by at least 10 times for month or so...
That of idiots need to stop paying the stupid prices for mats. People are only selling things for stupid prices, because people are actually buying them at those prices. If I have the mats, I would sell them for just as much too.
prices are a factor of what adena people have in hand. A couple of chronicles ago there were few people per server that had 2b+, nowadays every 78+ has maybe 4x 2b. Yes I m mostly talking about the euro servers.
You know, there a lot 80+ toons, specially on teon(most populated/boted server), and S80 takes HUGE amounts of mats to craft, and when craft's fails mats dissapears, but ADENA stays in market. And to collect whole mats for s80 by your self is just stupid..
It's like never ending chain: ebuyer buys atribute stones from s80 ppl -> s80 ppl buy mats from farmers(because to farm atribute and later buys mats is easier) -> farmes gain adena and sells it to ebuyers.
Why teon is feeling this so heawy? BECAUSE IT'S HEAWY! If other servers would have similar pop like teon i think prices would be very very similar.
So please take this in fact and say that we dont need to adjust manor, that would be posible for new player at least to collect some mats for top b grade craft by the time they hit lvl 80.
I see only one solution for this crysis. Increase seeds and crops current limit by at least 10 times for month or so...
If the manor is increased, those with fast reflexes and good clocks (...) would take advantage of it. Crops would still disappear in a second or two and guess how much those mats are going to sell for?
Plus this would impact the production of castles, with unknown consequences...
Something should be done indeed about the manor mechanics, but I'm not so sure about just increasing the amounts.
People are only selling things for stupid prices, because people are actually buying them at those prices. If I have the mats, I would sell them for just as much too.
This sentence best summarizes the situation.
If I see people buying my stuff quickly, I just increase the prices. It's what every reasonable seller would do, because it means buyers have money and that they don't care to spend it.
I see only one solution for this crysis. Increase seeds and crops current limit by at least 10 times for month or so...
If the manor is increased, those with fast reflexes and good clocks (...) would take advantage of it. Crops would still disappear in a second or two and guess how much those mats are going to sell for?
Plus this would impact the production of castles, with unknown consequences...
Something should be done indeed about the manor mechanics, but I'm not so sure about just increasing the amounts.
People are only selling things for stupid prices, because people are actually buying them at those prices. If I have the mats, I would sell them for just as much too.
This sentence best summarizes the situation.
If I see people buying my stuff quickly, I just increase the prices. It's what every reasonable seller would do, because it means buyers have money and that they don't care to spend it.
For castles is easy as it's, we increase crops by 10 times, and say lets increase castle goodies price by 7 - 8 times. It wount affect much that way, but we'll be able to get more mats, and I asume prices will only go up, because in the next updates you'll need 6k Mithril Aloy for s85.
Or there's easier sollution for this, add low a grade armor sets to luxury(sarcasm)
Drop rate re-balancing will do nothing if prices are not policed at some point.
Aka: if the buyback via a NPC is 400a for an item (usually this is half the value when you would pay if you bought it from an NPC ) then max price should never become higher then say 120% max. This would give people to make 20% profit right?
Those that farm can get the profit but the economy would be more structured. Of course the "complete" free market is then out the window. But we see how good this works right now are we not....... Inflation would be contained to some agree.
Ncsoft has many issue's that need to be (re-)considered and this clearly visible on servers like Teon as the proof is in the pudding as the proverb goes.
Also know that I read this article stating that some boys are now serving work sentences of stealing virtual goods from a fellow player in a game called RuneScape by a dutch judge.
If this is a prelude of what is to come we will see a far more stable economy simple since the game producers will have to be far more involved to able to give proof in cases like this. I only can hope this happening sooner then later to any MMORPG with "free" market structures.
Well manor has not been changed since c3(when it was implented) and I think NC did not take into consider adjusting manor while they were making that you need 3k of mithril aloy for a bow. Compare c3 crafts with nowdays crafts.. It's not even comparable how much more mats you need, plus still there're many guys who need a grade, so manor adjustemn would lower material prices by a lot.
I find it increasingly hard to get hold of materials, since people with walker programs always get the best seeds or all seeds, not to mention handing them in. So I almost never get materials from the manor system. Furthermore, buying material from the market is so costly atm. that the actual price of making a weapon seems to exceed the market price, thus pushing the price on items further up.
+1000
I have been so totally frustrated trying in vain to sell crops competing against the walker(bot) users for the past month... even buying seeds is a big problem.
This is no fun at all... and completely discourages legitimate players.
A complete revamp of the manor system is certainly due.
It is on the hands of castle lords to decide about seeds and buyback quantities.
So, if an alternative system is not provided in a subsequent update, the least NCSoft should do, is to somehow encourage the castle lords to buy a lot more crops.
As a special example, I will put forward Coal. My dorf ALT has over 2K Blue Codran fruits and last night, only the Schuttgard Castle would buy about 800 fruits for coal (reward 1).
Even if I could beat the bot users, and actually be the only person on the whole Teon server to sell Blue Codran for coal last night, I would still have lots and lots more Blue Codrans left.
and I bet that there are lots of people trying to manor for coal... (and ore, bone, enria etc.)
Is it not part fo this game to be able to gather your own mats if you like? (at least some of them)
Well , it cannot be done now and I fully agree that any new player, who does not want to eBuy, will be forced to quit L2 when they hit A-grade... it is unplayable for legit people, as it stands now.
You feel frustrated coz you cant turn in your seeds. So does probably about 20 more ppl on teon, who also have blue codrans. While the 5-8 ppl who know the exact time to click keep running back to their wh manager with their pockets full of coal.
Don't give up! Keep trying and adjusting the time you click. And by time I mean the exact second, find a clock to always follow and adjust it second by second, or you will never figure out the correct time.
They should implement a minimum buyback price for crops. The way things stand at the moment the system is way too cheap for castle lords and really bad for the market considering the strain s80 puts in mats
Don't give up! Keep trying and adjusting the time you click. And by time I mean the exact second, find a clock to always follow and adjust it second by second, or you will never figure out the correct time.
You didn't understood a point: fruits sales are controled by bots, they can generate thausand "sales click" per second. Ok, maybe not thausand, because of lag, but hundred. Anyway computer controled characters have big advantage against normal users in fruit sales, and there is allmost no chance to beat them in "sale click on correct time".
To make bigger sale/buy amounts will not fix a problem IMHO. Bot party per 24h can generate a lot of fruits. Lets do simple calculation: bot party kill mob (respawn, go to mob, kill mob, lets include chance of seed success) 1 in 30s. So, it will be 120 per hour and 2880 per 24h. After month that bot party will have ~86k of fruits...
Anyway, manor system should be change in order more peoples to gain wealth from that. I don't know how it can be done. One of options can maximum amount of crops/fruits sell per character.
Don't give up! Keep trying and adjusting the time you click. And by time I mean the exact second, find a clock to always follow and adjust it second by second, or you will never figure out the correct time.
I suppose you are joking... quite impossible really. Better chance to win the national lotto and eBuy adena from the farmers
Anyway, manor system should be change in order more peoples to gain wealth from that. I don't know how it can be done. One of options can maximum amount of crops/fruits sell per character.
Good thought, but not enough.
Edisson's suggestion is very nice.
that one could sell the fruit to an NPC for a standard price and the lords would have to offer a higher buyback price to attract the players.
Thus, everyone could sell ALL their fruits, worse case to the NPC.
At the very least, it should be forced upon the castle lords to buy at least as much fruit as they offered seeds for... bearing always in mind that one seed can produce many fruits on X3 or X4 mobs
My suggestion is .... that one could sell the fruit to an NPC for a standard price and the lords would have to offer a higher buyback price to attract the players
I take it you mean sell fruits and get mats, so I think this is very nice idea!
The NPC buys all fruits, with no limit, at a standard ratio and gives players mats in return. If players want to get more mats, then they try the old method.