Up until you stopped dropping gear on death. Up until you could have 5 pks before dropping gear.
Man, I remember dropping some 14k pants in the first few days of release. I had to run back through EF and barely made it to the back right as the server crashed. I thought my character was ruined. I petitioned a GM when servers came back up and they gave me my pants back!
But yeah, a huge part of the rush was the risk involved with everything you did.
I got my first sub (necro lol) back in c3 .... C3 was the first chronicle subs were introduced, if you want no subs you need to go back to c2 which sucked (th with starter dagger hit you idiot tank for 5k dmg)
Man, I remember dropping some 14k pants in the first few days of release. I had to run back through EF and barely made it to the back right as the server crashed.
But yeah, a huge part of the rush was the risk involved with everything you did.
Yeah i also loved that !
I remember running like hell to get my Dark Elven bow back in Execution Grounds !
Good ol' risky times...
before they started adding 75+ content and gear
back in those days you could compete at 70+ and didn't need to spend years grinding a few lvls and getting billions of adena for boss jewels/gear/element/skill enchants
I joined C3, lol. So thats my earliest memory :)
I enjoyed the risk element of dropping gear ^^ lost my mystic armor and had to kindly ask another player for it back.
the introduction of 7 signs was also pretty cool.
I miss chrono weapons too :D
I really liked C1, no bSps, healthy Gludio Town, possible to exp right outside a towngate, Mystics could exp on Golems and overall every spot was crowded. I also started in C1, maybe thats why I like it.
C2 added these nice Blue Wolf, ok, but every Golem had high Mdef all of sudden, every Imp in the ruins could 1-2 shot me, evey shop in Gludio vanished in a few days (since no one leveled in the spots they used to, RoD was complete emtpy on the 2nd day, the mobs around Gludio changed). C2 made me quit to WoW (but I rejoined L2 with C3).
C3 added catas/necros. At first it seemed nice, good exp, nice extras (seal stones, a buff, ...). But catas lead to a slow mob dieing in normal areas (areas around fellmere lake had lots of mobs, now just open fields without anything). Looking back I still wonder why its called 7-signs... Places like the lair became less popular (image a crowd of players sitting in the entreance and shouting for a party and it was a usefull spot for paladins). The idea of a subclass was nice, but the work-together came to late I think (nobless main class, being able to get skills on your main based on the sub). Also a big + for A grade.
C4 brought us Heros, a totally flawed system. PvP balance around the Oly is a joke, Hero skills are a joke, what is due to the small player base in NA/EU I think (compared to Korea). We got a new Dragon (the 2nd of 6 in the 4th major update) and the first series of S grade items. I wonder how the 2nd will look like... (no, S80 is a new grade IMO, I want some S grade robe for buffers/healers!). A big - here for the boss jewels.
C5, another really good update in my eyes. A grade recipes drop from mobs, instant herbs, a guide inside the map, Zariche (well, it missed a bit balance, but w/e). Schuttgart and rune were added, what brought new castles, new manor, new hunting spots for all levels (some are designed really nice, some never had and maybe will never have players inside like Swamp of Screams [I know some ppl are there, but overall the area is a fail]).
I'm stopping here, since C5 was the last cronicle. After all said I think every update after C2 wasnt this bad in its idea, the main problem I see is that the player base decreased too much over the years and that a lot of good ideas were never finished. Instead of fixing problems or improving existing stuff the devs come with new stuff (that also needs fixes then). I really wish the devs would start looking inside their game, see how the players accept the content and develope around the players. We dont need a LSD Island without any purpose, we need our leveling spots.
C3, pre heal nerf, pre sleep nerf, pre frenzy nerf, pre tyrant nerf.
best time of the game. before they overhauled it into ebay central. when crafting A grade was useful and fun, when overpowered skill OE was non existant, when there was no element stones and no S grade gear, when there was no forts.
but i wish C3 didnt have the dagger nerf. if it was C3 with no dagger nerf, this would be a wonderful game.
I loved C1. The game was actually populated then, whether you were in the newbie dungeons, Gludio, or the cemetery. People (strangers!!!) actually talked to each other in white and orange chat and enjoyed it. Pick-up groups were how everyone leveled. Clans and alliances were just starting to be formed and changed, sides shifting back and forth as different groups tried to rise to the top. (Later it was always side A vs. side B - and those sides stayed static for years at a time.) There was excitement in both PVP and PVE as people took more risks with their xp, back before they had invested enough time into their characters to care if they lost 10%.
C1 was also before I discovered that everyone hated my class. :P
C2 was ok, my main problem with that chronicle was that they nerfed xp for solo/small groups/etc. Everyone insisted on making perfect 9-person parties for the lair or TOI. If you didn't have a 58+ BD and SwS, people would refuse to party with you. As an EE, I spent hours trying to put together groups, constantly having the groups fall apart because the archers felt the xp wasn't good enough for them and would rather not xp at all than lower themselves to be in a less-than-perfect group.
C3 would be my second favorite chronicle. The game was still fairly populated but at least on Lionna, the population really started falling off near the end of C3, beginning of C4.
I played this game actively up until C3, but I quit in C4 and have played off and on since then, for the most part never really joining a clan or taking part in the actual politics/sieges/pvp/bosses etc. like I used to (I did for a short time in C5).
Ahh... this thread is making me nostalgic. I just found out last night that my last remaining friend in game is quitting, so I'm already a little bit on the nostalgic/weepy I-miss-C1 kick. :(
I remember Prelude when on Lionna KOR dominated with their top D grade (Yes D grade was the S80 of that era) and one dropped gear even when a kertir killed you. Back then Spellsingers and daggers where the class to be, and Spellhowlers were hated for their slowness. After that I found somethings good and bad each chronicle and i quited for a few years when Chron 5 hitted and now i just play for fun every now and then.
C1/C2... back when there were tons of people playing the game and action of all sorts was absolutely everywhere. Sieges were of epic proportion with hundreds of people on the battlefields. After siege PvP went on for hours. Whether you wanted it or not, PvP in general was as much of your daily L2 regiment as grinding.
WHile not a real chronicle, Prelude was my favorite as there was something magical to the atmosphere around light elven village at the time from the combination of the music and the visuals which is what got me started after beta was over. Dark elf village, Kamael village also have this same atmosphere, but I didn't spend a month in those areas.
Had I started on Talking Island, the orc or dwarf villages though I definitely wouldn't have continued post beta.
Prelude was the best chronicle, it featured the clean, core game design which was to make L2 such a fantastic game, it had no unnecesary additions, featured some of the most colorful and varied areas in the game and was a lot of fun to play.
The level design of prelude was amazing for its time, Elven village was simply one of the most beautiful starting areas ever, enchanted valley was very creative and interesting, oren was one of the best castle like cities I had seen at its time, Ivory tower and its crater. There was a lot of variety in prelude, every area was unique and creative, every dungeon well desigend.
The primary element that made prelude so good was its simplicity, the fact mobs didnt have overpowered skills, could run faster than you, spawn a million billion minions or whipe your entire party with one AoE, the best gear was obtainable by everyone and didnt require you to farm for months just to watch it fail on a 50/50 chance, the fact that there were no bots, no farmers and no ebayers. The game was pure, clean and new, and was at that time the best MMO ever made.
C1 broke a few things, namely the mob run speed was greatly increased, and soulshots now had weight, but it was also a great chronicle, there was still a semblance of balance, the game was fun to play for most classes. I think everyone would agree this was the most balanced chronicle pvp wise, while archers were very strong, mostly because of how fast they could level, there were still many other strong classes out there, tanks for instance, specially DAs and nukers were very strong now with BSPS.
DVC is my favorite dungeon of all time, by far it features the best level design of any dungeon in L2, and it ranks high on my list of favorite dungeons for any game ever made.
Aden, and its sourrounding areas also added much needed higher level solo/small group areas, I think everyone remembers the infamous hill of forbidden gateway, it was for solo players what DVC was for parties, a place to socialize and get some buffs, share some popcorn and watch archers kill each other over a spot, great times.
The game was still not complete at this stage though, lack of 58+ skils was a major issue that needed to be adressed, lack of armor texture for B grade also was a problem since it led to everyone looking exactly the same, but those were minor problems compared to the great gameplay C1 had to offer. Its hard not to name this as my favorite chronicle in favour of prelude, after all I was still having a lot of fun and the bots and ebayers where few and far between, but still the game had lost its innocence, even if it was a small tarnish to the purity of prelude.
C2 was truly the age of splendor, the peak of the game, unfortunatly it balanced what it gave us by breaking many many things, including the games balance, daggers became ******edly overpowered, so much so that it led to an unprecedented mid chronicle nerf. The game started to also go in the wrong direction, they needlessly nerfed small party/solo XP, they gave mobs overpowered attacks which rendered classes useless like paralize which basically meant EEs had hell getting a party.
This was where the game really suffered, making the mobs harder because we theoretically have better gear that most people cant afford was not a good idea, the mobs that now nuked were insanely stronger, and gave no more XP, no better drops or more adena, and many previously manegeable areas where now ridiculously strong leading to elitism in parties, and this wasnt a good thing, parties now had to be of a specific formation to function, classes where exculeded, people became far more elitist as a result and this led to many people not having a good time.
Tower of insolence was an example of real bad level design, it had some really big shoes to fill (L1 ToI) and not only did it fail miserably but its also one of the most generic and uninspired dungeons. The mob population is terrible, theres very few good spots and most of those are in the top levels of the tower and got nerfed after. Its no wonder everyone abandoned it after the novelty wore off.
Garden of eva was a great idea, fantastic concept let down by some truly obnoxious level design, the idea of roomless rings made it a very hard area to share, dropping mobs along a big ring in NOT good level design, this meant the only good room was the core, which is still one of my favorite rooms, sadly the addition of pointless automatic doors makes getting there a real pain and theres also only 1 core, so a whole dungeon for just 1 good room?
GoE could have been so much more, it had the potential to be a truly incredible area had they taken more time to design it right, and had they added the dragon they got a hidden room there for.
Heine was one of the worst cities in L2, not because it wasnt pretty, it was though I dissagree with the fake stair artwork to keep poly count low but because it was terribly complicated to navigate and gave the impression it was too empty, the shops and trainers where hidden in back areas which where invonvineintly located across many bridges. The areas around heine where also but a shadow of the great areas added around aden, I did like alligator island though.
Still, it did finalize the game, skills up to 75, fates whisper, it was the final product, the full game, I just wish they could of done that and kept the C1 mechanics, C1 level design and prelude non overpowered mobs.
C3 was what really started destroying the game, the XP table was totally reworked and while Im very happy it favored small parties/solo it totally disfavoured large parties of any sort, I agree, its still better than C2 but the addition of catcombs made it much harder to find a party outside your clan. DVC was a big social centre in C1-C2, people would come to the entrance and camp there forming parties and having a nice time talking to each other, most of the many great alliances and friendships come from such social interaction, C3 destroyed all that by introducing so many new dungeons without a centralized entrance for people to LFG and socialize outside their alliance.
The introduction of A grade was flawed at best, the drop rates even from raid bosses was ridiculously low for how often raids respawn, crafting one was next to impossible and buying one was for ebayers or psychotic dwarves that never leave town, it brought further inequality in pvp and promoted much more greed.
Since NC felt they had not bastardized the game enough they added subclasses, a concept that would have been cool if left entirely OPTIONAL and wasnt shoehorned in the game forcing everyone to essentially re roll and level again, true, that didnt manifest in this chronicle but we knew then what was coming.
Another big issue emerged, the boss jewel, as we became stronger it meant big raids were now able to be killed with relative ease, leading to major raids being killed basically as soon as they spawned, leading to top alliances obtaining highly overpowered jewelry which further imbalanced PvP, promoted greed and cheating, and highly antisocial behaviour.
Still, the game was somewhat enjoyable at this point, if you had a good clan you could go raiding and get something out of it, the grind was still tolerable and made sense, it was still the L2 we all knew and loved even with all the stuff they broke.
C4 was when the game really died for me, the bot infestation grew in the form of whole bot clans that would kill every raid boss in the server and nothing was done about it for months, and even when something was finally done it only took like 2 weeks for them to rebot back up and go on farming for months.
Nukers lost their crowd control element, rendering them useless to a party and rendering many parties just not worth doing any more, this age was mostly the age to solo, or at most trio.
The new released noble quest, and levels 76+ quests broke the previously entablished end game, for the first time the already high level cap was lifted, and the ugly exponential growth XP table L2 uses showed its true colors, its no wonder people took to botting, not only you had to get to 75 AGAIN to be competitive but also gain more levels that are increasingly twice as had as the already time consuming 75. It made no sense, most people hadnt reached 75 yet, just an elite minority, so it stole the chance to participate in end game for those who almost had reached it.
C4 was the age for the elite PvP minority, and everyone else either joined their ranks, learned to live as 3rd class citizens or quit the game, mostly the later.
C5 further continued with what C4 did in a very big way. Clans were to become larger, more PvP based, wars were to become longer and now 1 sided, the hero comp now meant the alliance with most heros had a gigantic advantage due to the new overpowered skills heros had and the introduction of overpowerd end game level 78 buffs made it impossible for anyone without them to be competitive in pvp.
This was the age of the CoV party, prophets were relegated to buff pets, no longer useful to anyone in party, it seems L2 was ahead of its time and going green.
It also meant the minority PvP elite now had many new weapons to keep the unwashed masses at bay, be good little peasants or face the wrath of our CoV archer parties, whats that? you want to raid antharas? sorry, cant have it, all mine.
At this point the game no longer made any sense, most people botted, ebayed and used walker for pvp, the new CP pots and elixirs made it much much harder to kill already overpowered classes, and made pvp more expensive in consumables for those that didnt ebay.
This chronicle was the nail in the coffin for L2, which now was a niche game that only appealed to a hardcore pvp minority, and everyone else was a carebear that was better off playing WoW.
Interlude was the most idiotic of all chronicles, while the nice presentation in korea brought back memories of the sweet old prelude days, a rebirth for L2, it was anything but. The level cap was needlessly lifted once more to level 80, ridiculously those 2 levels were meant to take months of hardcore grinding to achieve and gave no additional skills at the time, but we all knew they were coming, the XP tables for level 79+ are nothing short of madness. I could have accepted that madness if it came with a promise to never ever rise the cap again, but we all knew this wasnt the end of it.
Dino island, one of the most out of place, tastless introductions to L2, ripped off stright from jurasic park or WoW, take your pic on that, was absurdly hard and no one would ever hunt there if they hadnt shoehorned the area by making them drop top A gear and later spellbooks for out 79+ skills, worst level design ever, well at least since swamp of screams which thankfully had very little shoehorning.
The addition of clan skills, through the rep system also served to further the pvp gap between the top clans and the unwashed masses, not that it mattered because by that point the gap was so large you could sail the titanic through it.
Augments are another retatarded idea, expensive, needlessly random and possibly resulting in game breaking elements like celestial shield augment. Not only that but the fact for the first time in L2 history this meant the item was soulbound to your char you were free to PK as many people as you wanted without any fear of ever dropping your weapon.
The worst part of this chronicle is absolutly nothing good was added, nothing at all it only furthered the elite pvp agenda.
CT1 The kamael was a big comeback for L2, the first chronicle in over a year to bring something new to the game that was actually fun, the promise of a new race, the cool new areas, it was the first step in the right direction or was it?
The kamael was a very lazy made race, for all the wait and anticipation they werent interesting at all, poor class design, lazy subclass limitations led it to be an outsider class, one that clearly didnt belong in the game and had no purpouse, while fun at first it became clear they were something they added to please the korean player base without actually doing a lot of work on it, the kamael had the potential to be awesome, but they fell short.
This all can be simply translated as: we are too lazy to do new armor skins for a new race, so lets limit them to just 1 armor type, and by extension they can only be 1 of 3 possible classes.
Many would argue the background story supports this, but I dont buy it, background stories are made to support game mechanics in a game with its own intellectual property, not the other way around, so the designers made this story just to save themselves from doing the extra work, lazy, lazy, lazy.
Further than this once the joy of having a new class ended the other terrible additions showed, new 79 and 80 skills which made pvp even worse, specially overlord invulnerability and such ******ed additions. In a very big way CT1 furthered the elite PvP agenda even if it presented itself so well it was still nothing but more of the same.
I must admit though, it was the best chronicle since C3 simply because of the interesting new low level content.
Island of prayer also was an interesting addition, finally a good solo area for the 78+
Overall I liked CT1, it was the true interlude, the true comeback of L2 even if it didnt fix any of the core issues.
CT1: Hellbound
I know this is only a mid chronicle patch but it was in my honest opinion a bigger patch than interlude.
Hellbound itself wasnt a good area it followed the same principle as dino island, only worse, it was the posterchild of shoehorning of horridly designed areas, theres no place for small parties or solo players, the chance of dieing is huge and its the best place to get S80 gear. Once again L2 proved their level design team wasnt as good as the one the game started with and their areas were becoming increasingly tedious and aimed at the elite pvp minority. That isnt the whole story though, there was also a needless level 78 requirement to even be allowed to enter the area, and this was further enforced with a summoning banning and cant even swim there, begs the question why? why do this? makes no sense to me, theres far better places to powerlevel people if thats what you wanted to prevent and needlessly marginalizes anyone who isnt 78 yet.
There are also the elemental stones, which furthered once again the gap between the have and have not and between the ebayers and those who play by the rules.
Gracia
Was I the only one who thought this chronicle looked awesome? In paper it was our saviour, a much lighter tone from the ever dark motifs of C3+ chronicles, it looked and felt a lot more like the age of splendor didnt it?
The vitality system, the increased quest rewards, common cheap items, things we had been asking for years. ohh how good it looked in paper, but reality was about to show us what Gracia was all about
First of all gracia wants to trick you into believeing its 3 chronicles when in reality is a patch roughly the size of C2 cut in 3 pieces: the first would add much needed game mechanics improvements, the second would add game services we wont get because only the korean master race gets such things, and the final add all the new land masses and areas commonly asociated with an uptdate, of course to preserve the illusion that each patch could stand alone they decided to add just a few of all elements in all patches.
The vitality system cannot be desribed as anything other than an epic failure, while this is awesome at level 1-75 for some unexplained reason it becomes worthless after that, mostly because whichever code it uses it may as well be desigend by a chimp with a crayon and it would of been better. The game at this stage was one in which most people are over or near 75, and the problem was once they start smashing their face against the XP walls erected after those levels they get discouraged and quit or more likely bot, the vitality system does nothing to address this issue because at level 78 it would take you less than 2 hours to grind away 4 bars which take 4+ days to regain, I dont know what the universally accpeted definition of casual player is, but most casual players I know in L2 play a couple of hours every day after work, more on weekends, not once a week...
The quest rewards are amazing up to level 40 but after that you are out of luck, too bad yet another aspect that fails when we need it most.
Kamaloka, very fun up to level 50, then needlessly hard and tedious for very little reward, also you cant repeat it more than once a day making it very pointless.
This all can be sumed up as trying to patch up broken existing game mechanics with ******ed new additions instead of actually fixing whats broken in the first place, because god knows NC would never admit they did anything bad.
If gracia needed anything else to convince me the devs lost their mind it has it: level cap raised to 85, seriously... I wouldnt be two faced if CT3 raised the cap to 90, added S90 gear that needs 100 parts to craft and they drop 1 at the time from a reskined blue valakas that respawns once a month, can only be hurt by S80 weapons and takes 500 people to kill.
Like most people in this thread, most of my friends have quit, and the ones that havent play mostly because they still have a ever decreasing group of frinds that play. I miss the old L2, when the game had a community, when the bots where few and far between, when GMs roamed the land, when people spend time talking and socializing in DVC, when there were many strong clans with good people in them, when the game was about fun.
LOL A rant... wow.... you loose some serious reading comprehension points for that one spud.
That post was by far the most brilliant assessment of the game's history and current state that I have ever read. (And spud, I'm surprised, knowing how anti-bot you are, that you would dismiss her accurate accounting of how the game cultivated the current climate of bots and ebayers.)
...many previously manegeable areas where now ridiculously strong leading to elitism in parties, and this wasnt a good thing, parties now had to be of a specific formation to function, classes where exculeded, people became far more elitist as a result and this led to many people not having a good time.
Not having a good time.... and therefore quitting. This was the first major exodus I remember. I tried really hard to put together groups and keep morale up in my clan, but even in my own clan there was elitism. The dagger nerf was the next major exodus I remember. Lost a lot of friends from that.
C3 was what really started destroying the game, the XP table was totally reworked and while Im very happy it favored small parties/solo it totally disfavoured large parties of any sort, I agree, its still better than C2 but the addition of catcombs made it much harder to find a party outside your clan. DVC was a big social centre in C1-C2, people would come to the entrance and camp there forming parties and having a nice time talking to each other, most of the many great alliances and friendships come from such social interaction, C3 destroyed all that by introducing so many new dungeons without a centralized entrance for people to LFG and socialize outside their alliance.
I completely agree with this. Before C3 this game was so much more interesting simply because it was so easy to make friends (and enemies!) Having centralized locations where players met and partied up, as well as pick-up parties, really made the game what it was. After C3 the community became much more introverted (myself included.)
Since NC felt they had not bastardized the game enough they added subclasses, a concept that would have been cool if left entirely OPTIONAL and wasnt shoehorned in the game forcing everyone to essentially re roll and level again, true, that didnt manifest in this chronicle but we knew then what was coming.
I remember thinking at the time that rather than actually add interesting stuff for us to do, they just decided to add a subclass to give those who had reached 75 reason to stick around. In my mind, it was just more of the same (grind). Most of the first players on our server to hit 75 had been waiting for this chronicle to see what it added for them and when they found out they just quit. This was around the time I myself quit, not because I was that high but because I saw there was nothing in the future other than more grind. (obviously the game drew me back in later...)
C4 was the age for the elite PvP minority, and everyone else either joined their ranks, learned to live as 3rd class citizens or quit the game, mostly the later.
And it's been that way ever since....
Very long read, but well worth it, IMO. Arilyn wrote everything I myself have felt about the game (like, ever), only she said it better (and in more detail!) Also, she delves into the root of the problem; where we might know that droves of players quit at such-and-such time of the game, she points out the fundamental reasons why.
That post from Arilyn... wow... just wow... figging the war & peace of L2 posts.
I read it though... all of it... as laborious as it was... and couldn't agree more. That being said Arilyn... don't ever do that again!
Still illustrates C1/C2 as being the most active chronicles ever and the peak of the game. Not sure I agree with all the reasoning but for the most part, spot on. Maybe NC could learn from the insights. Would be great for me to see them learn SOMETHING from the dwindling player base that might save the game.
Spud & Edisson might have read it if it including some form of literature they're accustomed to... meaning there were no dirty pictures so that didn't happen.
Prelude and c1 were my favs...everything was new, not too extensive of a landmass (so you actually saw people all over). Hated c2 when vr was introed, ee was my main and getting a group that needed a healer was next to impossible :( C3 xp was increased, but drops were reduced (and a couple close friends packed it in and left) so not 2 of my favorite chons there, although c3 was that bad imo.
holy crap that post is epic
pretty sure that is the best post i have ever read on these forums and if the L2 devs could actually get a hold of that and listen to some of the logic L2 might actually have a hope of surviving
i could quote any part of that post but this is my favorite
Heine was one of the worst cities in L2, not because it wasnt pretty, it was though I dissagree with the fake stair artwork to keep poly count low but because it was terribly complicated to navigate and gave the impression it was too empty, the shops and trainers where hidden in back areas which where invonvineintly located across many bridges. The areas around heine where also but a shadow of the great areas added around aden, I did like alligator island though.
Well written post Arilyn, my compliments. Only thing you could have stressed more, in my opinion, is the game breaking introduction of Catacombs.
Catacombs = Too spread out player base, lost the sense of community and they rapidly became the perfect hiding spots for bots. No new scenary, just copy past dungeons on scattered places of the map. In short, the grind was introduced.
I still like the game in some odd way but the feeling of adventure in the air is forever gone.
Thank you all that took the time to read and respond so kindly to my post :)
EquilibriumOne, I did include that in my C3 section, and totally agree that was a vital aspect, I could have placed greater emphasis on it perhaps though belive it or not I was trying to keep the post short.
I agree also, the level design on catcombs was very very generic and lazy, I expected there to be a real aesthetic difference between a catcomb and a necropolis and ideally between the individual dungeons themselves, instead we got an amateurish job that lacked any show of creativity or innovation.
The spreading and concequent segregation of the community was indeed a major blow to the social aspect of L2 and while there were some futile attemts to revive it they never truly worked out, the introduction of the useless party matching system that very few people ever use, the comeback of big dungeons with Imperial tomb and Forge of the gods, both meant to replace DVC and ToI as centres of activity, why didnt they work then?
Well the party matching question is simple to answer, people dont like to use it because they have to wait staring at a blank screen most of the time, game design has taught us what people like is one large physical place to gather, chat, pvp, and physically LFG, thats why places like DVC in C1-2 or FG were so important for the social aspect of L2.
Game design wise these areas were also convinent, FG was one of the best XP spots for solo at the time, linking areas suitable from level 40 (Cemetery entrance) to Level 60 in the seal of shillen and adjacent areas. DVC was recognized as the best dungeon for the many reasons I listed, the area was and still is one of the best level designed areas on the game.
The failure of IT and FoG is of a totally different nature and has many aspects as to why they failed to replace DVC. First is the fact by the time they came the people had been segregated already for a very long time, a lot of the more social ones had quit.
Second we need to recognize the C3 nerf in group XP greatly hurted the social interaction almost as much as catcombs did, it wasnt the fact catcombs came as an alternative that killed DVC, it was the fact small parties were easier to form, yielded more XP and mobs in catcombs were considerably easy and less annoying than the chain spamming AoE/anchor/stun mobs we rutinarely encounter in the major dungeons since the shift in mob difficulty in C2. Again game design has taught us people will always go for whatever offers them the most reward for their effort, and the big dungeons, yielding now less XP for much more efforts were simply not worth it.
Third we need to look at the level design of IT and FoG, they are populated with some of the hardest mobs ever created and save for say the L room none of them are small or imperfect party friendly, if you wanted to hunt a good room like say for instance a bug room, you had to have an elite group with CoV, and most often those rooms would have been claimed by the dominant alliance which would not let the unwashed masses spoil the air with there presence.
I was introduced to the game by a friend at interlude so I have no idea about any chronicles whatsoever. I would of loved to have played this game when it first came out though ****it.
Arilyn gratz for your post..., i mean thats the image all ppl must put in mind, thats the global image l2 its all about atm!
For me prelude and C1 was the best of all, not cause was well designed or even balanced, was just cause ppl were all using the features of game has it was, NC had a epic fail mostly cause took the wrong way of nowdays reality..., i mean to have a healthy enverimont ingame you must creat mechanism to keep grinding systems flow and profits from hunting must flow like at low lvls areas!
Community its almost lost i mean almost cause there still are cool ppl playing, the problem is that to achieve something ... i mean higher lvls/gear you must invest impossible time that a normal person dont have..., in the way to be able to have chance in pvp ppl have only one option...., bot and ebay = community whitouth soul!
And i say this cause its the true, the most important changes to be made have to do whit grinding system and rewards, NC have to creat something that make gameplay worth it, hardcore its a minority population in every area of our society, if NC put the things easier and logic this game its almost perfect, every action players made or anything they have to achieve have a high cost in personal sacrifice, farm for hours, grind for hours, that is not possible if we think on what our real life became nowdays...we grow up we must work build a life, l2 must folow that way...lvl gap its fine sub system its fine all its fine atm just make it possible to achieve whit every day steps each player make not from entire bot partys farming for months, the key its make something better something that give value to community...listen and learn from them i think :)!
My Favorite Chronicle had to be C1. Too many reasons to mention, but it was exciting having to run everywhere always looking over your sholder in constant fear a pker may be after you.
Thank you all that took the time to read and respond so kindly to my post :)
EquilibriumOne, I did include that in my C3 section, and totally agree that was a vital aspect, I could have placed greater emphasis on it perhaps though belive it or not I was trying to keep the post short.
I agree also, the level design on catcombs was very very generic and lazy, I expected there to be a real aesthetic difference between a catcomb and a necropolis and ideally between the individual dungeons themselves, instead we got an amateurish job that lacked any show of creativity or innovation.
The spreading and concequent segregation of the community was indeed a major blow to the social aspect of L2 and while there were some futile attemts to revive it they never truly worked out, the introduction of the useless party matching system that very few people ever use, the comeback of big dungeons with Imperial tomb and Forge of the gods, both meant to replace DVC and ToI as centres of activity, why didnt they work then?
Well the party matching question is simple to answer, people dont like to use it because they have to wait staring at a blank screen most of the time, game design has taught us what people like is one large physical place to gather, chat, pvp, and physically LFG, thats why places like DVC in C1-2 or FG were so important for the social aspect of L2.
Game design wise these areas were also convinent, FG was one of the best XP spots for solo at the time, linking areas suitable from level 40 (Cemetery entrance) to Level 60 in the seal of shillen and adjacent areas. DVC was recognized as the best dungeon for the many reasons I listed, the area was and still is one of the best level designed areas on the game.
The failure of IT and FoG is of a totally different nature and has many aspects as to why they failed to replace DVC. First is the fact by the time they came the people had been segregated already for a very long time, a lot of the more social ones had quit.
Second we need to recognize the C3 nerf in group XP greatly hurted the social interaction almost as much as catcombs did, it wasnt the fact catcombs came as an alternative that killed DVC, it was the fact small parties were easier to form, yielded more XP and mobs in catcombs were considerably easy and less annoying than the chain spamming AoE/anchor/stun mobs we rutinarely encounter in the major dungeons since the shift in mob difficulty in C2. Again game design has taught us people will always go for whatever offers them the most reward for their effort, and the big dungeons, yielding now less XP for much more efforts were simply not worth it.
Third we need to look at the level design of IT and FoG, they are populated with some of the hardest mobs ever created and save for say the L room none of them are small or imperfect party friendly, if you wanted to hunt a good room like say for instance a bug room, you had to have an elite group with CoV, and most often those rooms would have been claimed by the dominant alliance which would not let the unwashed masses spoil the air with there presence.
Nope. You must not have been here for C2. The lfg system was originally an amazing system that almost everyone used. Then for some unfathomable and completely stupid reason they wiped out the old lfg system and implemented half of the crappy one we are left with today. Yes it was not global, but it did do the most basic thing a lfg mechanism should do which is what made the first one so good. THis was to generate a list of the people lfg and displaying their class and level range for anyone to see who was making a group. THis was also extremely nice to use when making raid/siege groups as you could get an immediate list of all the people who were not yet grouped and what class so they so you knew where to put them.
As for the reasons why later dungeons failed, this is due solely to multiple hp mobs giving inferior exp/sp/adena/material rewards compared to soloable mobs while at the same time also having more hp, armor and offense per hp quantum. When players could earn more rewards faster by soloing in the fields with an oop buffer who was not stealing your exp/sp/adena/mats there was no reason to party, in fact partying actually became a millstone. Had NC really wanted to try making partying a rewarding experience they would needed to reduce the price of shots such that you could actually still earn an income by killing mobs while in a group, they would need to reduce the defense of multi hp mobs, make all classes have significantly effective aoe skills and greatly increase the mp regeneration rate while also giving classes interesting skills to play with.
FoG is a great example of why all classes need AoE abilities. Come to think of it a lot of the new areas are just large clumps of mobs that favor classes which can effectively use pole weapons, particularly destroyers.
Nope. You must not have been here for C2. The lfg system was originally an amazing system that almost everyone used.
Were YOU here for C2? I was here for every last bit of it and the lfg system was NEVER used. I'm sure a few people used it, a few people still try to use it, but it was always a royal failure.
As for the reasons why later dungeons failed, this is due solely to multiple hp mobs giving inferior exp/sp/adena/material rewards compared to soloable mobs while at the same time also having more hp, armor and offense per hp quantum. When players could earn more rewards faster by soloing in the fields with an oop buffer who was not stealing your exp/sp/adena/mats there was no reason to party, in fact partying actually became a millstone.
This is pretty much exactly what Arilyn said... "Again game design has taught us people will always go for whatever offers them the most reward for their effort, and the big dungeons, yielding now less XP for much more efforts were simply not worth it."
Nope. You must not have been here for C2. The lfg system was originally an amazing system that almost everyone used.
Were YOU here for C2? I was here for every last bit of it and the lfg system was NEVER used. I'm sure a few people used it, a few people still try to use it, but it was always a royal failure.
LFG system was a thing taking up memory in the game, it was never used, not even in OB. What was used was going into shout chat and saying LFG!!!!!. and trade chat was used in OB too and was discontinued by c2
As for the reasons why later dungeons failed, this is due solely to multiple hp mobs giving inferior exp/sp/adena/material rewards compared to soloable mobs while at the same time also having more hp, armor and offense per hp quantum. When players could earn more rewards faster by soloing in the fields with an oop buffer who was not stealing your exp/sp/adena/mats there was no reason to party, in fact partying actually became a millstone.
This is pretty much exactly what Arilyn said... "Again game design has taught us people will always go for whatever offers them the most reward for their effort, and the big dungeons, yielding now less XP for much more efforts were simply not worth it."
People always partied, especially as cruma, cause no-one ran around in +6 d armor and +10-16 d weapons in OB, we ran around im puma or manticore, in chain or brig, in mith or knowlegde, with the newer people running around with piecebone and etc.
You are a wordy person, Arilyn, But I have to say that I largely dissagree with you about the development of this game. I started playing in C1, back before there were gremlins in the starting areas. When my first quest as a Human Fighter was to go outside Cedric's Training Hall and kill 5 keltirs to bring back the head master.
I remember back in C3 when the Seven Signs were introduced and first room in every cata was packed to the brim with players all looking for a party and chatting near the Gatekeeper Zigurats.
I think the Golden Age of Lineage II was C3. Until that point, everying that was added made the game more fun. I LOVED the catacombs and Necropoli. They made my grind more interesting. Clan wars were balanced, and even a clan of lower level characters could make a difference on a seige field. Characters of every level had something to do in C3 sinse at that point almost no one was 75+
C4, Interlude, Hellbound, The Kamael, Gracia Pt1, and Pt2 have all been big dissapointments for me.
After playing for years I had managed to reach lvl 72 on my main by C4, and I am a pretty casual player (a few hours a day, more on the weekends). But at C4 I hit a wall I have yet to pass... FIVE updates later I am STILL at level 72. Not becouse I stopped playing, but becouse the bots had grown so numerous that the only 2 places to hunt at that level were perpetually occupied. C4 cut a huge rift in the player base. The game was now dividedinto two types of players: 1-75, and 76+. Being 76+ meant that you could enjoy all the aspects of the game. and being 75 or lower meant that you no longer made a difference on the seige field. You longer had places to hunt that were always contested by bots. you had NO CHANCE in PvP with a player a single level ahead of you sinse the gap in stats between A and S gear was so enormous.
Gracia gave me some false hope of actually leveling my character with the vitality system, but that only makes a difference if you have mobs to kill and there are STILL no new places to exp at that level that aren't infested with bots.
Also, in gracia, the game took a huge turn for the worst IMO. What had made the game for me was the journey I had made from lvl 1 to lvl 72... it was long hard task, but it was the most fun I've had a game. No it takes only a few weeks to rush to my level... all my work meant nothing at this point becouse any idiot could no waltz into game and make a 60+ toon in 2 weeks. The Game design flushes all its players toward the "end game" content without adding any new content along the way, and devaluing all the items/quests/hunting grounds along the way. Lineage II is not itself anymore unless you are 80+ and in the largest most over-sized clan on your server.
When the game realy died for me though was when NCsoft kiled it by adding instanced hunting zones. The Rift was the worst thing to happen to L2 sinse subclassing, and has started a chain reaction wherein every update they release new "instance" zones to mask the symtoms of a dwindling landmass. There is not enough space in game and rather than creating new environments, they just keep making new instances that murder the social aspect of a social game genre.
In spite of all these things I retain hope. Hope that the devs will pick things up when NCWest is established and that maybe things will change for the better.
What 2 places do you think are the only 2 places a level 72 can hunt? I discovered long ago that bad xp is better than no xp. Rather than insisting I get the best xp spot every time like I used to try to do, I go where I can get any xp - and it adds up over time. I can see no reason why you haven't been able to get a single level since C4, because I myself was around 72 in C4 and since then I have soloed up to 78 on my main and 75 on my sub. (I've been clanless most of this time so I've done few parties.)
Here are some of the places I have spent a great deal of time XPing at levels 68-75 on my EE, Glad sub and SpS - VOS, FOTD, WOA, Blazing Swamps, 1/2 HP mobs outside Goddard, Beast Farm, I've even successfully soloed at Swamp of Screams (although, for some reason, I find it safer when I truly am solo without a buffer following me around). Those, plus the catas/necros.
You could, if you had a partner or good buffs, also go to Hot Springs or Ketra Orcs/Varka Silenos. Part of the time I was leveling up 68+ I was in a highly pvp oriented clan (or duoed with someone in one) so I had to find out of the way spots to xp in relative peace. I spent a good deal of time at the ketra orcs. They weren't the best xp, but it was xp. By just plugging away no matter how crappy the xp, I've gotten much farther than I would have if I insisted on the top 2 spots in the game.
Surely, out of those spots, you can find somewhere to level to 73! Of course, FOTD and VOS cater to ranged while WOA caters to melee, but there are still plenty of places to go. And like I said, xp is xp no matter how crappy it is.
I don't think, in your case, that you should blame the game for your not being able to level past 72. Since many people have done just that, legitly, solo, etc., it is obviously entirely possible to do.