The problem I have faced since returning to L2 in Gracia is a problem of principle. I like L2, in fact I really enjoy some aspects of it, like the economy and clan wars. However, I don't enjoy cheaters and I certainly don't condone their behavior. Obviously, I am not alone in this situation.
I've decided that I wouldn't support a game or a company that catered to cheaters if it came out today. You'll notice that many new big MMO titles have released and many of them have failed for far less than having a game full of bots. Which leaves me confused as to why we tolerate it in L2.
The rest of the MMO community is far ahead of this one so I'm not worried about setting a precedent. However, with other big titles coming out under NCSoft's name, it's important for us to show them that we won't tolerate this nonsense a second time around.
The people in charge of L2 on the US end of things are not doing their part towards improving MMO gaming. Our devs are not honest with us, they are not open with us. Our discussions are all locked without comment as soon as we try to talk about something important. This behavior would kill any newly released title within the day.
As I said in the intro, this is a question of principle. After much thought, I have agreed with the general consensus that nothing will be done to improve the situation. After much research, I've noticed that all the "State of the union" posts promise the same undelivered dream. Finally, to sweep discussions about unfair play under the carpet and pretend they don't exist is by and far the worst policy I have ever seen used to deal with a problem.
For a moment you had me convinced there was nothing I could do to improve the problem. But then I realized that NCSoft needs the players. The bots and adena sellers need the players. And the players want to play the game, but we don't need to.
You can stop us from having a voice on your boards, but you can't stop us from having a voice on your financial statements. Here's to a better gaming envrionment. Farewell.
The people in charge of L2 on the US end of things are not doing their part towards improving MMO gaming. Our devs are not honest with us, they are not open with us. Our discussions are all locked without comment as soon as we try to talk about something important.
Finally, to sweep discussions about unfair play under the carpet and pretend they don't exist is by and far the worst policy I have ever seen used to deal with a problem.
NCWest have few, if any developers for Lineage II.
NCWest are not a franchise as such, but work similar to one. Korea is the big daddy.
What's kept you here this long... if 'cheaters' bother you this much then you should have left in C2 when they started overwhelming the servers.
You say the players don't need to play the game? Of course I don't need to... I WANT to. A game is for enjoyment. If I'm annoyed at bots being in my area, I'll log out and do something else or I'll find somewhere else to level.
You say the players don't need to play the game? Of course I don't need to... I WANT to. A game is for enjoyment. If I'm annoyed at bots being in my area, I'll log out and do something else or I'll find somewhere else to level.
Problem with that is when you log back in their still there,and still there, and still there, and still there, and still there, and still there, and still there. :D
Finally, to sweep discussions about unfair play under the carpet and pretend they don't exist is by and far the worst policy I have ever seen used to deal with a problem.
untrue. the spirit of closing these discussions is three fold:
1. these boards are "official". this means it has the be the most polished, highest standard of legitimacy around. the boards at bleh or other sites are shady. ruled by shady characters, with questionable discussions of questionable activities. cant have that here.
2. discussions on these subjects tend to flow into unconstructive flaming of individuals. for that reason many of them are locked.
3. discussing the specifics of questionable activites has its place on these boards and it is in ONE particular thread. if youll notice, it is one thread with a buttload more views than most threads around.
Problem with that is when you log back in their still there,and still there, and still there, and still there, and still there, and still there, and still there.
I can put this into many contexts.
Think about mothers in law (for those of you with them), tax men... and other criminals exist in reality, but you still go outside in spite of them?
Bots are now part of the game - I just play now, in spite of them. Because nothing noticeable has been done to eradicate bots for the whole of my time playing this game, I've become accustomed to them. I seed from them. I train them (it's fun and a break from the grind) and even tease them by clicking on the mobs when they spawn (they sometimes drop target).
All in all, they're part of Lineage II life. Little of what's been done in the past to stop them has worked and I'm not expecting that to change.
To everyone who starts threads to complain, whinge, cry QQQQQ ----- Live with it or /quit like the OP.
I can life with it. Sure, i hate it..but it doesnt interfear with my gameplay until now and never did until now at my lvl52. maybe more in the high lvl areas. But well, without them it would be much better.
I noticed that L2 is trying to do something against it. Other mmorpgs know they hav the same problem, even worse and dont do nothing about it.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I hate it too. I just couldn't see life without them. The economy would change.. for the better or worse.. who knows. Regardless - they're here and I live with them. They are the ones (if they're real players) jeopardising their accounts. If this new system works.. they're screwed because they actually have to PvE for once in their lives.
I remember once they paid 1 million to me a few others that were in my group for us to leave them alone. was the funniest thing EVER!
Thats 1Mill each btw.
I've decided that I wouldn't support a game or a company that catered to cheaters if it came out today. You'll notice that many new big MMO titles have released and many of them have failed for far less than having a game full of bots. Which leaves me confused as to why we tolerate it in L2.
which one?
The people in charge of L2 on the US end of things are not doing their part towards improving MMO gaming. Our devs are not honest with us, they are not open with us. Our discussions are all locked without comment as soon as we try to talk about something important. This behavior would kill any newly released title within the day.
because the same old topic were discussed over and over and over and over again. not only moderator/admin in this board lock/delete topics without reasons, lot of boards do that.
You can stop us from having a voice on your boards, but you can't stop us from having a voice on your financial statements. Here's to a better gaming envrionment. Farewell.
cheating is not the main reason why people left the game. i am not going to explain why since you are leaving.
Bye.
ps :can i have your stuff? i need adena for S grade..... :eek:
Problem with that is when you log back in their still there,and still there, and still there, and still there, and still there, and still there, and still there.
I can put this into many contexts.
Think about mothers in law (for those of you with them), tax men... and other criminals exist in reality, but you still go outside in spite of them?
Bots are now part of the game - I just play now, in spite of them. Because nothing noticeable has been done to eradicate bots for the whole of my time playing this game, I've become accustomed to them. I seed from them. I train them (it's fun and a break from the grind) and even tease them by clicking on the mobs when they spawn (they sometimes drop target).
All in all, they're part of Lineage II life. Little of what's been done in the past to stop them has worked and I'm not expecting that to change.
To everyone who starts threads to complain, whinge, cry QQQQQ ----- Live with it or /quit like the OP.
I agree. It's just amazing the crying. It's there. Do what you can do and just move on.
What about when they were live farmers and you had to actually deal with people? They were more of a pain in the neck.
I'm so tired of bot problem threads. I'm amazed that someone thinks they are going to say something so new and innovative that it will strike the heart of NCSoft and open their eyes to see!! and magically begin to make the problem go away.
I understand you want it fixed -- most do -- but even if it is now, it's way too late in the game to have any lasting effects.... and I have never read anything in a bot thread that has been much different than any other bot thread.
Sovrath, I'm not sure that the compound quote you referenced meant that your "crying" comment was said in my respect(the first part of the quote was mine). I've leveled with you a lot, when I was playing, at MOS. I don't cry about the bot problem but I remain open to discussion and even venting over the situation is, in a way, helpful for some. Your comments are always intuitive and I enjoy reading of your point of view but I haven't shed a tear over a game yet ;)
Sovrath, I'm not sure that the compound quote you referenced meant that your "crying" comment was said in my respect(the first part of the quote was mine). I've leveled with you a lot, when I was playing, at MOS. I don't cry about the bot problem but I remain open to discussion and even venting over the situation is, in a way, helpful for some. Your comments are always intuitive and I enjoy reading of your point of view but I haven't shed a tear over a game yet ;)
Nope sorry, not really in reference to you.
Sometimes I write while thinking of a specific instance or set of instances but forget to actually include that in what I am writing.
I'm so tired of bot problem threads. I'm amazed that someone thinks they are going to say something so new and innovative that it will strike the heart of NCSoft and open their eyes to see!! and magically begin to make the problem go away.
I understand you want it fixed -- most do -- but even if it is now, it's way too late in the game to have any lasting effects.... and I have never read anything in a bot thread that has been much different than any other bot thread.
I don't think you or Binary get my point. Rather, you're demonstrating a bit of it. My point is that it has become so normal that we get tired of reading threads about it and whatnot. This is a huge problem in and of itself and demonstrates the scale of our issue.
I agree it might be too late to fix it and that players need to either accept it or quit. I'm quitting, but there is definitely no need to shut up about the problem. You need to grow sick and tired of it too.
I'm so tired of bot problem threads. I'm amazed that someone thinks they are going to say something so new and innovative that it will strike the heart of NCSoft and open their eyes to see!! and magically begin to make the problem go away.
I understand you want it fixed -- most do -- but even if it is now, it's way too late in the game to have any lasting effects.... and I have never read anything in a bot thread that has been much different than any other bot thread.
Pretty weak. As customers you should always give your feedback. There is a time when it just might change ( arn't they adding a bots reporting button now?). but the reality is bots are bad for these games, and the active population of L2 proves it.
If you personally have seen your fill of bot complaint threads here is a tip ( oddly enough it is your own advice) deal with them, or leave. Simple huh? don't reply, don't read them, just ignore them, if that is too hard them stop using the msg boards. :cool:
Lulz. I basically do ignore them. However, I reserve the right to add my own two cents because I always have something to say :)
And if you want to beat a dead horse... go for it !!! Like I said, if anything new was said, it might be an interesting discussion thread. But instead it is the same old complaint with the same old answers. In case no one had recognized that, I thought I'd let you know...
I don't enjoy cheaters and I certainly don't condone their behavior. Obviously, I am not alone in this situation.
Get used to it. That's life. Move past it or move on. Putting energy into preventing cheaters is not worthwhile unless you are getting paid to do it.
I've decided that I wouldn't support a game or a company that catered to cheaters if it came out today.
Well then you wont have many options since most games have some element of cheating in them.
You'll notice that many new big MMO titles have released and many of them have failed for far less than having a game full of bots. Which leaves me confused as to why we tolerate it in L2.
I think many of those games you are referring to have failed because, to put it bluntly, they suck. This game doesnt suck which is why so many have put up with so much.
You can stop us from having a voice on your boards, but you can't stop us from having a voice on your financial statements. Here's to a better gaming envrionment. Farewell.
Since we all think that B's are oke and C's are oke then by all means get this game to work NATIVELY on any computer already without "violating" the EULA, hmmmm?
Get that annoying GG out of the game then as well. I mean less overhead on legal Win users, Linux users happy, Mac Users happy.
Seems to me a Win-Win situation.
Then everyone is happy, right.
(@ the OP, you are stepping on a road that I a long time ago choose to follow.)
BTW Siren. Could you get a padlock over here? kkthx
NCWest have few, if any developers for Lineage II.
NCWest are not a franchise as such, but work similar to one. Korea is the big daddy.
stop reposting fan boy fallacies that you make up to justify the abuse this company throws at it's player base. The company is at fault, not the players.
Ncna/NcWEST/Ncwhateveritiscalledlastyearandtheyearbeforectect is not the new kid on the block when it comes to mmorpgs. Nc Seoul staffed it with ex-origin back in 2002 and has continued the trend of putting people with tallent and experience in positions of authority in it's North American/European Division. They also continue to throw tons of money at their two flag ship titles (lineage 1 and lineage 2). There is no excuse for the poor service and support that we receive or the state the game is in. Stop making excuses for the leader in mmorpgs. Their hands are not tied. Stop making things up, especially when you haven't the foggiest idea about what you are talking about.
I don't think you or Binary get my point. Rather, you're demonstrating a bit of it. My point is that it has become so normal that we get tired of reading threads about it and whatnot. This is a huge problem in and of itself and demonstrates the scale of our issue.
I am not one to dwell on stuff. I whined about it early on; nothing was done. I got to xp spots, use the bots to my advantage (I remember getting to toi10 easy cuz of bot groups) and just keep moving, playing my game. We can complain until the end of times. NC Soft says they can't tell a bot group from live players... they need to investigate. Okay Fine. I did my part. Now i just move on because I'm not gonna let NCSoft or bots ruin my fun.
I just said there are too many threads about the subject. If there was a serious attempt to stop them, it would have already been in place. And random HGMSpam running through xp spots banning people who are using 3rd party programs is not the answer. The answer is to get rid of the bot farmers. If this had been done, the live players would not be using the program.
The answer is to get rid of the bot farmers. If this had been done, the live players would not be using the program.
Wrong!
You are putting the cart before the horse.
The correct answer is: get rid of the so-called "live players" that bot and purchase items and adena for RL currency, then the actual adena farmers (botted or not) will be gone in no time (due to having no customers).
It's cause and effect!
Never mistake one for another. :)
No, I'm not wrong. if the farmers using it were banned right away, live players would never have considered using it and the farmers would have no adena to sell. You have it wrong. We learn by example.
Pretty weak. As customers you should always give your feedback. There is a time when it just might change ( arn't they adding a bots reporting button now?). but the reality is bots are bad for these games, and the active population of L2 proves it.
If you personally have seen your fill of bot complaint threads here is a tip ( oddly enough it is your own advice) deal with them, or leave. Simple huh? don't reply, don't read them, just ignore them, if that is too hard them stop using the msg boards. :cool:
As a customer you should provide feedback yes, but it should be of a constructive nature. The OP's abuse of the forum system is not feedback.
As a consumer in general there is only one way to truly affect companies such as NCSoft: Choosing to pay or not to pay for their product. In its simplest form, my payment to NCsoft each month is my statement to them that I enjoy their game and wish to continue playing. If at any point I decide that playing this game is no longer alluring enough to merit the money I pay, than I simply stop paying for it.
I have said it before and I will say it again. These forums are NOT a petition. Making a post about how many bots there are in game, or how much you hate NCSoft's policies, is not going to change anything. NCsoft has no obligation to take action simply becouse enough people whine about it.
If leaving the game made the OP feel like his voice will be heard more, than that is something he/she will have to square with at some point; but to expect any difference from the rest of the playerbase is just ignorant and selfish.
I have always found it somewhat amusing that forums in general seem to attract a certain type of crowd. There are expeptions of course, as many people here on the boards are quite personable and even nice. But the majority of people that frequent forums of any kind, are troublemakers. They cry and whine and make a fuss over every little thing and expect the whole world to hear them, and when nothing is done to suite their fancy, they cry more and more and try and topple the whole community with them. (though it never works).
If it were my choice, and I were placed in a position of influence, I would simply eliminate the boards altogether and make every person with a complaint deal directly with NCsoft via the Support tab.
IMO NCsoft should block a LOT more threads than they do, and they should not only lock them, but delete them from the archives...
Think about the way people post. They address the players and say "we think" or "we are" a lot like they becouse they are speaking to the players. All the complains on the forums are directed to other players, not NCsoft. And that is precisely the point. It places people under the dellusion that what they make other players read will somehow create a wave that gets back to NCsoft, when they should be just talking to NCsoft directly. No one seems to understand that (yes I'm saying AGAIN) these boards are NOT a petition. No matter how many responses a topic gets, it has no more sway in the end that any other post. If getting responses is what matters to people than take your spam, and hate, and flaming to another board where you'll get the kind of attention you're looking for.
I can't believe all the posts ripping the OP a new [censored] over his venting of a very frustrating problem. It's a very real problem and thereby a very valid post. Flaming the disgruntled OP because you're tired of hearing people complain about bots is ******ed.
Of course we're all painfully aware of the problem and it's been around as long as the game has, but that doesn't mean for an instant that anyone should simply tolerate it as a reality of life and/or give up on trying to get a resolution. This problem shouldn't even exist to begin with.
Telling people to pretend it doesn't exist and/or "get over it" "deal with it" "stop crying" is flat out wrong. I can only imagine statements like that come from people who regularly bot themselves.
Anti-bot posts should be in every section of this board. It's such a problem that has had such a negative impact on the game that the board should be flooded with these posts in every area possible. Make the message as visible as possible so it might get some attention... someday... maybe.
I can't believe all the posts ripping the OP a new [censored] over his venting of a very frustrating problem. It's a very real problem and thereby a very valid post. Flaming the disgruntled OP because you're tired of hearing people complain about bots is ******ed.
Of course we're all painfully aware of the problem and it's been around as long as the game has, but that doesn't mean for an instant that anyone should simply tolerate it as a reality of life and/or give up on trying to get a resolution. This problem shouldn't even exist to begin with.
Telling people to pretend it doesn't exist and/or "get over it" "deal with it" "stop crying" is flat out wrong. I can only imagine statements like that come from people who regularly bot themselves.
Anti-bot posts should be in every section of this board. It's such a problem that has had such a negative impact on the game that the board should be flooded with these posts in every area possible. Make the message as visible as possible so it might get some attention... someday... maybe.
Than you are just as big a fool as the OP.
No one here is saying that bots aren't an issue. In fact many people have stated, just as you did, that we are ALL, very aware of the problem.
No one is telling the OP to give up, or ignore the problem. I encourage players to fight bots with everything they've got. Report every bot you see. Use the new button until you run out for the day, and then use the old petition system.
But what you all seem to be ignorant of is that fighting bots and posting about them on the forums are completely unrelated. These forums are NOT a tool for fighting bots.
It is no different than me trying to fight criminals in real life by whining and stamping my feet at home. They are unrelated and no matter how many times I stamp my feet or whine, it will yeild no results.
If you want to fight bots, do so, and with my support, but fight them correctly by writting a petition to the team and by visiting the support section of the website.
And for the sake of all of us stop crying about here on the **** boards!
As a customer you should provide feedback yes, but it should be of a constructive nature. The OP's abuse of the forum system is not feedback.
It's very constructive for them to read forums like this. If the OP abused the forum that I imagine that the thread would be locked or an admin would tell us. Get off your horse plz.
As a consumer in general there is only one way to truly affect companies such as NCSoft: Choosing to pay or not to pay for their product. In its simplest form, my payment to NCsoft each month is my statement to them that I enjoy their game and wish to continue playing. If at any point I decide that playing this game is no longer alluring enough to merit the money I pay, than I simply stop paying for it.
LOL. Wow, that's like not paying your taxes because you hate your government. "uhuh, you don't fix my problems so I'm not paying you." Sound stupid? That's because it is. If you don't like the way things are you deal with it diplomatically. Those in power don't negotiate with terrorists...
I have said it before and I will say it again. These forums are NOT a petition. Making a post about how many bots there are in game, or how much you hate NCSoft's policies, is not going to change anything. NCsoft has no obligation to take action simply becouse enough people whine about it.
Our anger has nothing to do with NCSoft's policies, where have you been? It's mainly due to NCSoft's inability to fix the problem; there policies are very clear when you install the game it's just too bad that we have useless pieces of garbage playing it that don't give a rats [censored] about being truthful.
If leaving the game made the OP feel like his voice will be heard more, than that is something he/she will have to square with at some point; but to expect any difference from the rest of the playerbase is just ignorant and selfish.
who asked you [censored] hole? If people want to quit playing the game because they can't stand the environment then that's actually a sad reality, not something to be scoffed at. Also, if people don't like their salary or the way their company is handling matters then they'll strike until the conditions get better. This is what is happening with some players at this time. There's nothing wrong with it so shut your mouth.
I have always found it somewhat amusing that forums in general seem to attract a certain type of crowd. There are expeptions of course, as many people here on the boards are quite personable and even nice. But the majority of people that frequent forums of any kind, are troublemakers. They cry and whine and make a fuss over every little thing and expect the whole world to hear them, and when nothing is done to suite their fancy, they cry more and more and try and topple the whole community with them. (though it never works).
I can see which group you fall into. 80% of your post is negative t words those that have decided to re-visit the issues once again. If YOU don't like what's being said here than YOU find something else to talk about somewhere else. Nobody invited you to speak here.
If it were my choice, and I were placed in a position of influence, I would simply eliminate the boards altogether and make every person with a complaint deal directly with NCsoft via the Support tab.
Thankfully your not in any position that would sully the integrity and professionalism of the support team. Nuff said.
I have said it before and I will say it again. These forums are NOT a petition. Making a post about how many bots there are in game, or how much you hate NCSoft's policies, is not going to change anything. NCsoft has no obligation to take action simply becouse enough people whine about it.
If leaving the game made the OP feel like his voice will be heard more, than that is something he/she will have to square with at some point; but to expect any difference from the rest of the playerbase is just ignorant and selfish.
I have always found it somewhat amusing that forums in general seem to attract a certain type of crowd. There are expeptions of course, as many people here on the boards are quite personable and even nice. But the majority of people that frequent forums of any kind, are troublemakers. They
I have always found it somewhat amusing that forums in general seem to attract a certain type of crowd. There are expeptions of course, as many people here on the boards are quite personable and even nice. But the majority of people that frequent forums of any kind, are troublemakers. They cry and whine and make a fuss over every little thing and expect the whole world to hear them, and when nothing is done to suite their fancy, they cry more and more and try and topple the whole community with them. (though it never works).
The only thing I want to share with you directly is my experience as a gamer. I have made many a constructive post that later translated into fixes and even public acknowledgements from the devs during alphas and betas.
I have been part of communities that had discussions with the devs on how to improve the game and saw those changes take place. I watched when a giant like Blizzard hotfixed a broken raid boss that only a couple top guilds were fighting (80 people out of 10million) because one of those guilds made an angry post about the impossibility of the encounter. I was there in tribes 2 when we played WITH the devs, let alone bounced ideas with them. Or in Planetside.
So if your experience is limited to one community, where the devs NEVER POST and your voice is never acknowledged, then you are likely to consider this normal and criticize the odd post complaining. The UO community was the complete opposite and they would rupture something while laughing hard at the idea that the players should not be heard.
So tell me that these communities are neither here nor there. That we are dealing with NCSoft and your post is still relevant. But I'll tell you, like I've told others in this thread, that your very defense of this behaviour is why I am posting. The problem of bots is just a consequence of this behavior, not a cause.
So here's the sentence that really got to me:
They cry and whine and make a fuss over every little thing and expect the whole world to hear them, and when nothing is done to suite their fancy, they cry more and more and try and topple the whole community with them. (though it never works).
I was going to refrain from going personally after you, but the quoted statement is at the very least IGNORANT. You must be completely disconnected from the rest of the world, let alone MMORPGs. I bet that if I linked you to forums where developers regardless of company bounced ideas off each other, your head might explode.
You think that people that take the time to post constructively on real issues (like bots in L2) are whinning and crying when they aren't heard and try to topple the whole community? I can't even insult you for entertaining that view because it is simply uneducated. Just try to remember what you read here when you play your next MMO and feel like a child on christmas morning when the community and the devs interact to make a better game.
And as for your final bit about "though it never works", you're right. I can't think of a SINGLE game that crashed from one day to the next because the community/dev relationship wasn't observed. Nope, not AC, Sims Online, DDO, Vanguard, SWG, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ2...
You didn't have a clue before this post but atleast now you're aware of it.
It's very constructive for them to read forums like this. If the OP abused the forum that I imagine that the thread would be locked or an admin would tell us. Get off your horse plz.
Wrong. If a thread is not locked if and when is becomes forum abuse that does not mean it is acceptable to the admins. Site admins works hours like the rest of us and they get to things when they get to them. If this thread has not been noticed YET that doesn't mean that it won't be.
LOL. Wow, that's like not paying your taxes because you hate your government. "uhuh, you don't fix my problems so I'm not paying you." Sound stupid? That's because it is. If you don't like the way things are you deal with it diplomatically. Those in power don't negotiate with terrorists...
LOL. Except not. So you can make an analogy, now try making one that applies to the topic. Apples and Oranges, son.
Our anger has nothing to do with NCSoft's policies, where have you been? It's mainly due to NCSoft's inability to fix the problem; there policies are very clear when you install the game it's just too bad that we have useless pieces of garbage playing it that don't give a rats [censored] about being truthful.
I am not going ot argue that we have some unsavory people playing, and that they are the crusp of the whole issue. But that is not what people complain about. And NCSoft's policies on how to deal with things has come into question many times on this thread alone.
who asked you [censored] hole? If people want to quit playing the game because they can't stand the environment then that's actually a sad reality, not something to be scoffed at. Also, if people don't like their salary or the way their company is handling matters then they'll strike until the conditions get better. This is what is happening with some players at this time. There's nothing wrong with it so shut your mouth.
Wrong again, son. Its not sad to men when whiners want to quite the game. I won't miss them or their whining, and the game is actually better for it.
I can see which group you fall into. 80% of your post is negative t words those that have decided to re-visit the issues once again. If YOU don't like what's being said here than YOU find something else to talk about somewhere else. Nobody invited you to speak here.
Just becouse you don't agree with what I am posting doesn't mean you have to resul to name-calling and bad language. In doing so you only prove my point further about what kind of people tend to frequent these boards.
Thankfully your not in any position that would sully the integrity and professionalism of the support team. Nuff said.
My only affiliation to NCsoft is that of a consumer. I absolutely LOVE Lineage II. It has offered me a unique experience absent in other games and provided me with countless hours of fun. Their staff is responsible for keeping the game running and I have nothing but respect for them.
And you're correct. My being in a position to influence the game would be a very bad thing most people. If it were within my power I would change many things, but as I am not in such a position I will do exactly as I think others should do and pay them a monthly fee to pay or refuse to pay and stop playing.
I simply choose to play. Anyone who ceases payment or "quits" the game as people so often do (exept not becouse they continue to post daily about unimportant BS) forfeit their right to share in the boards. Which proves another point. If the OP had actually quit the game, and cancelled payment, than his ability to even log into the boards would have been revoked as the forums account requires an ACTIVE game account to use.
Finally, to sweep discussions about unfair play under the carpet and pretend they don't exist is by and far the worst policy I have ever seen used to deal with a problem.
untrue. the spirit of closing these discussions is three fold:
1. these boards are "official". this means it has the be the most polished, highest standard of legitimacy around. the boards at bleh or other sites are shady. ruled by shady characters, with questionable discussions of questionable activities. cant have that here.
it is not run by shady people. you are shady, and so is your face.
Lulz. I basically do ignore them. However, I reserve the right to add my own two cents because I always have something to say :)
And if you want to beat a dead horse... go for it !!! Like I said, if anything new was said, it might be an interesting discussion thread. But instead it is the same old complaint with the same old answers. In case no one had recognized that, I thought I'd let you know...
But by all means, continue on!!!!!
Like I said take your own advice. Stop complaining about people complaining, or deal with it. Rather than come here and look like a moron telling people you are tired of all their complaining and they should stop trying. The truly Ironic thing is seeing these posts are completely voluntary, unlike seeing troops of bots ingame. you really do not have to peek in and read these bot complaint threads yet you do, so stop complaining about them you clearly enjoy chirping in with them :P
...But what you all seem to be ignorant of is that fighting bots and posting about them on the forums are completely unrelated. These forums are NOT a tool for fighting bots.
The admins read the boards... that's how posts get locked... they're not going to lock something unless they have read it... admins will & do read bot rant posts... and on occasion you'll see a message in a bot thread from an admin along the lines of:
"I was going to let this go to see what direction it would take but it's turned into a flame so now it's locked"
That tells me that the admins do in fact read these boards AND AND AND pay attention to what is written. Therefore every bot thread has value. Even the threads that are locked without comment are read. That sends a clear message to NC.
Therefore, this forum a very viable tool in the war against bots.
I am not going ot argue that we have some unsavory people playing, and that they are the crusp of the whole issue. But that is not what people complain about. And NCSoft's policies on how to deal with things has come into question many times on this thread alone.
That's not what people complain about? Your delusional.
Wrong again, son. Its not sad to men when whiners want to quite the game. I won't miss them or their whining, and the game is actually better for it.
We're here to talk about THE issue. Your here to flame. Nobody cares who your gonna miss. This thread has nothing to do with you so why are you trying to divulge to us your personal feelings about the people instead of talking about the issue?
Just becouse you don't agree with what I am posting doesn't mean you have to resul to name-calling and bad language. In doing so you only prove my point further about what kind of people tend to frequent these boards.
What can I say, your ignorance annoys me. Bad language is censored so I'm covered. You got me - One of my weak points is stooping low enough to talk to rude, ignorant pubescent nerds.
Two things:
1)I'm not your son and yes, it is mildly annoying that you think so.
2)I have ceased to pay and have not forfeited any forum speaking privileges whatsoever in doing so. I haven't played this game in at least 6 months as other posts of mine have explained. Your assumption that those that quit cannot participate in the forums is dead wrong as is much else you say. The people at NCSoft have us speaking here because they value the experiences and knowledge of those that have quit remembering that its not the joy and entertainment of the game that is in question and that prevents some from playing. It's gonna take a hell of alot more than just a boyish addiction to bring most of us back. ;)
theres a reason why wow has so many players, and since this isnt korea, l2 will never have the high numbers that it does in korea
with that being said, if there werent any bots, there probably would be more players, but not the multiplatinum numbers that wow gets, ever
this is a business, not some community outreach program
bots that come back and keep paying make money, end of story, players give up and move on
if there werent any bots, there probably would be more players, but not the multiplatinum numbers that wow gets, ever
Fewer players mean fewer bots... and more bots mean fewer players.
L2 would never get to the wow levels and I think we'd be surprised at how few people came back and/or stayed. Most people have just been gone too long to care.
Loads of players quit over farmer bot frustrations and, most importantly, quit over the other non-farmer people who botted/ebayed to their super-dooper-uber-hero status and flaunted their ****... very frustrating to constantly get owned by those azzhats and still keep playing... and there were the very few who were individuals that were banned for botting.
If farmer bots were banned in the early days then individuals would have been too frightened to try it. Every player would have leveled of their own merit and we'd have a much much larger player base today. The only way we're going to see player growth today is through an NC marketing of the game, which NC says is coming through the new NCWest. Maybe I'll still be here to see that happen.
I have played online games since they started, yep i`m one old ****. In all those years i have seen one common fact, once a game becomes popular it starts having bot problems. The reason being botting is a business, they will not venture into a terriority(game) where they cannot turn a profit.
The key word here is profit, without profit there would be no bots.
Now some of you will not understand this next statement and prob flame the heck out of me, BUT if you would stop and really think about what i am about to say you would see it holds merit.
The only way you will ever see a game free of bots is to take away there livelyhood, how do you do that, sell the ingame currency ingame in a legit manner. NOW before you flame think, selling currency ingame would be no different then players buying ingame currency from bots, BUT you take the bots out of the picture, hence more player areas to hunt in.
The # of players buying currency legit versus bot would be NO different, either way people would buy currency, but atleast by selling currency ingame you take out the profit margin for the bots hence they leave.
Ingame currency from the game itself cost the game company nothing, 100% profit, the botters must pay its emploree`s, the people sitting behind a puter screen 24/7 farming so there is a markup they MUST cover there expenses.
I am not saying i condone currency buyers, but it is a fact of life now in every online game. If it is popular you can buy ingame currency from somone somewhere, as it is now each game suffers twofold:
1. Buyers of ingame currency are maxed out in the best gear, other players suffer.
2. Botting that it takes to supply the ingame currency for buyers takes hunting areas away from legit players, other players suffer.
As i said earlier the # of players buying ingame currency would not change, games selling currency/versus bot stores, but atleast you would not have to fight the bots for areas.
One of the plus`s to this is that then the game company makes more of a profit, more profit a game company makes the more it re invest into its product, hence better game updates, they would not want there game to die it is making them money, not only in monthly dues but also in ingame currency sales.
Now please before you flame think:
1. Players will always buy ingame currency
2. No bots, they could not compete with game company on currency price
3. Game company makes more profit hence more game updates
4. More open hunting grounds due to lack of bots
5. Monies spent on fighting the bots could now be used to design new updates, cause each company spends alot fighting bots.
The main argrument to this is, that it would ruin the ecomony, but it wouldn`t the economy is allready ruined by the bots.
Finally, to sweep discussions about unfair play under the carpet and pretend they don't exist is by and far the worst policy I have ever seen used to deal with a problem.
I agree with your statement completely. There is one other way to take away or seriously reduce the financial incentive for bots, without the need for NC to become the adena seller.
If stores would buy all mats you farm in game at prices commensurate with market resale prices, it would be easier for players to make in game money and reduce the reliance on bot money. The store would also sell the same mats at a slight profit to itself. In order to not completely ruin the in game economy, the stores should buy slightly below the player shop prices, sell at slightly above player shop prices, and only resell the same quantity that has been turned in. So if 10,000 bone have been turned in on Monday, they could only sell a maximum of 10,000 bone. Say the market buy price is 500ea, the store offers only 400ea. The market sell price is 750ea the store sell price is 850ea. Thereby you retain the viability of player shops but also give players a viable revenue stream by allowing them to turn in to stores at a fair price.
This process creates a more fluid revenue stream for players without undermining the free market system. The laws of supply & demand still affect cost structures. It won't completely eliminate bots because there is still a market for specialty items, but the bots would have to work a lot harder to make anything at all.
lets say NPC shop is selling at 1 adena. then i make player shop for 1mil (people do this all the time with stem). now NPC shop is selling stem at 1000001 adena and buying stem at 999999 ?? umm no ty. not a bad idea just needs to be completely rethought in order to account for the way player-based ecconomy fluctuates and is different on different servers.
Finally, to sweep discussions about unfair play under the carpet and pretend they don't exist is by and far the worst policy I have ever seen used to deal with a problem.
The new community manager knows nothing about PR.
FAIL - her job is not to be the PR person, there is a marketing staff for that. Her/His job is to communicate with the players - not turn on the PR machine and kiss our [censored] like Omega does.
I am not one to dwell on stuff. I whined about it early on; nothing was done. I got to xp spots, use the bots to my advantage (I remember getting to toi10 easy cuz of bot groups) and just keep moving, playing my game. We can complain until the end of times. NC Soft says they can't tell a bot group from live players... they need to investigate. Okay Fine. I did my part. Now i just move on because I'm not gonna let NCSoft or bots ruin my fun.
I just said there are too many threads about the subject. If there was a serious attempt to stop them, it would have already been in place. And random HGMSpam running through xp spots banning people who are using 3rd party programs is not the answer. The answer is to get rid of the bot farmers. If this had been done, the live players would not be using the program.
The worst feedback for a company is that customers stop trying to give feedback >.<
The OP still have faith in this company that it will change for the better, but most of us already loss faith in the company.
I still have faith in NCNA tho... even there's not that much left :p
theres a reason why wow has so many players, and since this isnt korea, l2 will never have the high numbers that it does in korea
with that being said, if there werent any bots, there probably would be more players, but not the multiplatinum numbers that wow gets, ever
this is a business, not some community outreach program
bots that come back and keep paying make money, end of story, players give up and move on
wow has so many players because the game is nothing but: If I'm begger than you (in lvl) I'll win! Oh..and one more thing: lvl 50 will own lvl 40 like a grown up will own a child! So, basically a bunch of immature kids who are striving for /IwannaRuleTheWorld is playing wow.
In l2 it is hard to lvl up after 81+ it is hard to kill an archer if you are a bishop or a dwarf and it requires tons of ppl who would actually play as support classes to help to survive those who are DD.... In its own way, l2 is a pretty good game! You just need understand that, although if you don't - just quit the game.
Of course, playing the game is much more fun ;) Just dont burn yerself out grinding all the time (if you have that much time) and dont look at it like a race to be top, just have fun dammit its a game :D
theres a reason why wow has so many players, and since this isnt korea, l2 will never have the high numbers that it does in korea
with that being said, if there werent any bots, there probably would be more players, but not the multiplatinum numbers that wow gets, ever
this is a business, not some community outreach program
bots that come back and keep paying make money, end of story, players give up and move on
I am not certain why everyone is under the delusion that WoW has a larger playerbase than L2... Nor do I have any idea how that misinformation is accepted as fact by so many people.
WoW has subscribers in ONLY the USA, Europe, and Australia. The few playerst that reside in other countries are so few in number that they don't merit being mentioned.
(WoW trying to start in China was an epic fail that cost Blizzrd a pretty penny).
Filefront / Gamestop / and Gameguide (All US Local sites) list WoW subsriptions at 11 million worldwide as of Oct 2008.
On the back of the frikken box on lineage the subsriber count worldwide was 21 million... that's just shy of DOUBLE.
Worldwide, Japan alone accounts for more than 90% of the world's gaming market. Korea, SEA are prbably a collective 6-7%. This leave all the US / Europe only 3-4% between them. My numbers seem crazy? read for yourself:
WoW is a joke, nothing more. So is Warhammer, and so is EQ. Between the 3 of them they don't have L2's numbers and probably never will.
Also, given that, up to this point, NCsoft had been relying solely on its Asian market to reach these numbers? What do you all think is going to happen when NC West starts launching adds in the US and Europe for L2.
What sane person will watch a commercial for WoW, and a Commercial for L2 and then choose to play WoW? come on people.
To get back on topic (sort of). Saying that L2 is loosing players becouse of bots is just ignorant. All MMOs have serrious BOT issues, and most are worse than L2 (especially WoW.. though EQ actually has a decent policing system).
I am not certain why everyone is under the delusion that WoW has a larger playerbase than L2... Nor do I have any idea how that misinformation is accepted as fact by so many people.
WoW has subscribers in ONLY the USA, Europe, and Australia. The few playerst that reside in other countries are so few in number that they don't merit being mentioned.
(WoW trying to start in China was an epic fail that cost Blizzrd a pretty penny).
Filefront / Gamestop / and Gameguide (All US Local sites) list WoW subsriptions at 11 million worldwide as of Oct 2008.
On the back of the frikken box on lineage the subsriber count worldwide was 21 million... that's just shy of DOUBLE.
I'm not quite sure where you're getting your numbers, and I think you're misinterprating some stats.
I'm guessing that the 22 million number for L2 (assuming there is such a count, as I lost my L2 box 4 or more years ago) is the total number of accounts there has ever been for L2. Active and inactive combined. Where as the subscription count for WoW is the actuall current active number.
In March of 2007 L2 had a reported 610,918 individual accounts. Thats a far cry from 21million.
FAIL - her job is not to be the PR person, there is a marketing staff for that. Her/His job is to communicate with the players - not turn on the PR machine and kiss our [censored] like Omega does.
One Definition: Public Relations is a set of management, supervisory, and technical functions that foster an organization's ability to strategically listen to, appreciate, and respond to those persons whose mutually beneficial relationships with the organization are necessary if it is to achieve its missions and values.
Long way of saying this: Marketing is there to get you to buy the game, once you buy it then their job is done. PR people are here to make sure that those of us who are here, stay here. We, the people who pay (including the bots accounts) are "those persons whose mutually beneficial relationships with the organization are necessary if it is to achieve its missions and values".
Questions:
Who are there more of? Players or bot accounts?
The answer would tell you to whom they would cater the most.