Keeping on the botting theme, this week's poll asks:
Do you feel that someone who uses someone else's botted buffers, though they did not bot themselves, are also at fault for cheating?
Cast your vote at on our latest poll, located in the right-hand sidebar of our main page at l2vault.ign.com You will also find the results of the last poll listed in the news headings.
A botted toon is a botted toon, no matter if somebody else botted it and then gave the toon to somebody else (account sharing comes into play here too, anyway). If you just solo somewhere and meet somebody else who has a known botted buffer with him, and he hands you a drive-by PoW/emp/whatever, that's nothing bad, I guess. But if you regularly use that buffer (e.g. you duo with the owner and he brings that buffer along), then you in my opinion get "tainted" xp, because you clearly benefit from somebody who was botting. Then you are no better than the guy who buys the buffer iiilghgiij which was seen in a varka silenos bot train only a few weeks ago and then uses that buffer (without botting it) for himself.
Do you feel that someone who uses someone else's botted buffers, though they did not bot themselves, are also at fault for cheating?
What do you mean by "using"?
Sharing accounts with buffers is cheating, botted or not.
Playing in a group where at least one toon is being obviously botted is cheating.
Plaiyng in a group where is a toon that has been botted is technically not cheating, but is not nice anyway.
Though they may not have botted it themselves, they are still reaping the rewards; rewards they would not have had otherwise. Then there's what was said about account sharing/purchasing. So on these two points, the person who uses somebody else's botted buffer (or any other character) is guilty of cheating (twice).
At this time, the "No, they aren't the ones who have done wrong." option is actually winning. I would propose that those people are merely deluding themselves and using "I didn't do it" as an excuse to indulge and "get away with it."
Very cloudy subject here....If you are sitting in a known bot group, then yes your subject to be banned. If you and someone else are live playing and there is a buffer following, this gets touchy. If you know the buffer is on walker then you are in violation, but if your not sure, maybe dual box, then would say you are fine, it's hard to prove that the buffer is botting.
It's a moral thing in your own opinion, although i have not really seen anyone in this game with much morals or honor. Sorry just my opinion.
I came into this game late so it is not unusual for other players to have buffers higher level than me. If I wanted to use high level buffs from someone playing OOP then I could a) look for someone who has been playing for 2+ years and grinded that buffer up or b) someone who botted that buffer up in 2 months or less, either way, I am still getting assistance from high level buffs which as an issue itself is not cheating.
Provided that the buffer plays legitimately when partying with me and that I play legitimately, whether the buffer was grinded or botted is of no consquence to my own XP.
If you are talking about me playing the buffer then that would involve account sharing which is against the EULA and IS therefore cheating.
you are responsible for your character, its not a players job/duty/responsibility to ensure that everyone they party with is now and has always played legit, for that matter, it isn't even possible. iiilghgiij got a paid name change and is now named SuperDoomCryerFromADarkCornerOfTheirMomsBasement, you don't really know if anyone is legit unless you knew them before they leveled, and even then you proably wouldn't know if they wern't.
That said, play legit, play smart, don't be ******ed, and don't play with ******ed people. This is really a topic that is best dealt with the simple phrase
thing with the account sharing is its in the EULA mainly for korea as they have all personal details hooked into the account. think somewhere theres a post by even HGMspam that its a grey area for NA. but the account share thing is always gonna be touchy seen a lot from UO and other games where someone befriends someone even goes so far as ot meet in rl etc they get really good friends then a year later account cleared and friend disappears into thin air.
but a botted toon is a botted toon end of. should be /gmed etc if you know about it and you manage to find it botting or is on walker following you regardless of wether its a clannies or the guy is a nice person etc. bots havent ruined this game, everyone turning the other cheek for the last few years has.
you are responsible for your character, its not a players job/duty/responsibility to ensure that everyone they party with is now and has always played legit, for that matter, it isn't even possible. iiilghgiij got a paid name change and is now named SuperDoomCryerFromADarkCornerOfTheirMomsBasement, you don't really know if anyone is legit unless you knew them before they leveled, and even then you proably wouldn't know if they wern't.
That is true, my example was only supposed to be about a situation where you KNOW the buffer was botted. If you honestly don't know, then of course it's not cheating. Cheating implies knowing that you get an illegal benefit. Knowing the buffer is botted and still accepting the benefits=cheating. And I guess that is what the original poster was asking about, the moral issue of benefitting from a botted account when you know it was a bot.
Now of course somebody will come and say "so you should not be banned for using a botted buffer if you do not know it", and that is true. But you won't be banned anyway unless a.) you are in a party with the buffer WHILE he is being botted or b.) you use the botted account from your own IP address, i.e. account sharing, which is illegal and which you can very well be banned for if it's a buffer account which is being used by like 20 different people in one clan.
thing with the account sharing is its in the EULA mainly for korea as they have all personal details hooked into the account. think somewhere theres a post by even HGMspam that its a grey area for NA.
It's not a grey area, Spam clearly said it IS illegal. It is just not high on their investigation priority list. But Spam did say that if an account gets used by dozens of different people so that it kind of catches their eyes (e.g. a buffer logged on by tons of people in one clan), that's clearly something you can get banned for.
We had this discussion a few days ago and it was locked.
There is NO exception to account sharing. I don't think NC would go as far as banning you for letting your partner or family member log on in the same household under the same IP address or whatever, but if you're letting someone 1000 miles away log in to your account then you are definitely account sharing. NC are too busy banning bots so this is probably the least of their worries, but I'd never risk it.
-edit- Account sharing is different than botting. (obviously botting = bad) (although still it doesn't bother me and no, I don't report people) If I want to give my friends and family the ability to login and play my accounts then why is it an issue with anyone but myself and the person(s) involved.
Silly rule on its own, but as a whole it covers for people selling and/or stealing accounts.
-edit- Account sharing is different than botting. (obviously botting = bad) (although still it doesn't bother me and no, I don't report people) If I want to give my friends and family the ability to login and play my accounts then why is it an issue with anyone but myself and the person(s) involved.
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well just from the OP thats a stupid assumption. even if someone is buffed by someone that would make them cheating if the buffer was botted to lvl... without knowing who all has botted it would be like a bot buffing everyone in a town... now they all have cheated when theres some noob going "hOLy CoW awesome buffs!!!!" ::BAN for botting:: and poor kid is wondering what happend.
or as u say Using the char for buffs. say oop buffer in a cata some where assuming they do not have them there logged in with them.. but someone else has it logged in... that person is just happy to have buffs and heals. n BAM BAN! ummm well how the hell would they know.
only way i would say yes is if the bought an accout from someone knowing that it was from a offsite that sells accounts. not to say all people who sell thier accounts would be botters but i would imagine a good % of them would be. but thats not here or there where it came from they still wouldnt know if it was botted.
either way a hard thing to prove. i just know i'd be ****** if i was in a party and the buffer buffed us and we all got banned for it. like i would bloody know.
How is a botter cheating when he is leveling live with someone else, and not on a program?
There's a big difference.
The only time someone is cheating is if they are leveling with someone who has toons on a program (to auto-buff, heal, rez, etc.).
If they are actually at the computer controlling them, they aren't doing anything wrong.
They can be the biggest cheaters in the world, but if a GM walked up to them while they were live, nothing will be done about it cause they aren't cheating.
I don't think it's wrong to Xp with an obviously botted toon. If I need to do my daily Kama on my EE and some botted toon wants to invite me to party to do it, there is nothing that will stop me from joining that gruop and getting my XP. Same for XP group.
The only requirement is that you are actually live whilst playing with me (in the same group) - you and all your toons. I don't care about what you do when you're not in my group. Don't know ya and you definitely won't have access to log in any of my accounts and get them banned by cheating with them...
There are too little players in this game to be dumb enough to refuse a party I'm looking for just becasue I seen someone afk in a field the other day. I have moral and ethical barriers, but I need to level my toons too. It's hard enough being legit, I'm not going to make it uneccesarily difficult for myself.
It's time people stop complaining about Account Sharing. There are to many loopholes and exceptions, to the point that worrying about it is a waste of brain cells.
If I want to give my friends and family the ability to login and play my accounts then why is it an issue with anyone but myself and the person(s) involved.
It becomes a server-wide issue when your clan powerlevels shared account OLs to dominate in mass PvP.
Nope, I'm not. Bottting is not account sharing. Botting is another EULA violation. If you tell to "fight fire with fire" to compete with clans who violate EULA in one way, why wouldn't you tell the same for the other violation as well?
But anyway, as I've replied. Account sharing is an issue for others than who share account when it compels others to break EULA too just to stay competitive.
No matter what that account still belongs to the person that set it up. You may be playing on it and you may even pay for it, but that account could still be "recalled" at any time. It is against the User Agreement to share accounts. But with that said we do not go on account sharing witch hunts. So if this is between you and a friend... so be it. But if the poo hits the fan and you call support to have something fixed or get a refund because the account was recalled. You will be out of luck.
basically means, same as it did in lin 1, simplified means 'We don't care, we arn't going to enforce this rule, the only reason we have it is in case there is a problem with someone sharing an account with someone else, it is their problem, not ours'
I think you need to look up the definition of legal. Sharing account, buying money and botting are in NO WAY illegal activities. They are against the terms of use IN A VIDEOGAME. Last time I checked NCSoft did not create the laws in the USA or any other country. Use the correct terminology. You are not going to jail even if NCSoft finds you have violated their terms of use and bans your account. If you murder someone, which is an illegal activity, you will go to jail.
I think you need to look up the definition of legal ...... Use the correct terminology.
I'm afraid you're victim to your own wisdom.
Thx for the tips. I will head to Dieon and/or Gludio tonight. No, I'm not talking to bots lol, and it's City of Heroes/Villains :)
Thanks again.
I emembered another question...
On my Mystic Elf, are they a ranged attacker? Do they use their staff to ranged attack enemies? Reason why i'm asking is b/c (and I do realize that I'm only lvl 6) i'm only able to melee with it atm. It's very hard to kill things and level like I would on my Kamael. Thanks again!
Actually you were trying to talk to bots... There is a lot of illegal program use on the servers and those you were seeing are either leveling back up because there was a mass banning or farming adnea/mats to sell.
If you happen to find dog biscuits with REAL dog in them, please let me know.
So by spam's own statement they do not ban for account sharing, so everyone can just get off the topic.
He stated the rule only exists sort of like lending your car out to a friend, if he gets into an accident after you let him have it don't go the police saying he stole it.
Yes, I know. I did actually re-write my post after you neg-repped me because I realised how unfair I was being. Check the Edit: Reason... (less anger!).
Just becasue I like to use Links in my Post don't make it bad if you don't like the Links don't click on it.:mad:
Again, another missed opportunity here, really...take the time to make this happen Ash, you won't regret it!
Buying items low and selling them high is cheating then, since your benefiting from people who ebay, getting prices you would not of otherwise?No, don't argue semantics. A line has to be drawn somewhere otherwise everything people do would be considered cheating. Draw that line along the terms of service, actions you can control and for which you are personally responsible. The market does not fall under this category.
it's amazing that he has played for so long to hit 82 and never even bothered to read the EULA or Code of Conduct
not really lets face it how many people do you think have read the EULA for this or MSN or any program. Its like manuals for a lot of things people just dont read those either
not really lets face it how many people do you think have read the EULA for this or MSN or any program. Its like manuals for a lot of things people just dont read those either
Then he should atleast had looked it up before posting what he did.
Draw that line along the terms of service, actions you can control and for which you are personally responsible.
that goes against your earlier statement that it is cheating, if the person your with is using a botted buffer, which rounds back to my earlier post. You are responsible for your account and char, not everyone you party with's chars, you cannot control them and are not personally responsible for them.
I never said anything about being with another person. My post was in the context of account buying/sharing - literally using the character. But if I knew somebody I was partied with botted/ing, they would of course be /reported, kicked, and/or unwelcome in this and future parties. To quote: That said, play legit, play smart, don't be ******ed, and don't play with ******ed people. We're not disagreeing here, stop twisting my words around.
No, don't argue semantics. A line has to be drawn somewhere otherwise everything people do would be considered cheating. Draw that line along the terms of service, actions you can control and for which you are personally responsible. The market does not fall under this category.
But GOD aka HGMSpam has already stated he will never ban someone for account sharing no matter how much you report them, it be in the EULA bu he is not going to enforce it.
Its about equal to jaywalking, it maybe on the books as against the law but many police will never give you a ticket for it.
We can also state that editing the text file for your client is illegal and is bannable but certain people still do it, right Tirena?
Keeping on the botting theme, this week's poll asks:
Do you feel that someone who uses someone else's botted buffers, though they did not bot themselves, are also at fault for cheating?
Cast your vote at on our latest poll, located in the right-hand sidebar of our main page at l2vault.ign.com You will also find the results of the last poll listed in the news headings.
What if someone's next door friends Boyfriend Father botted his main and power level his SE buffer up and then used the buffer to power level a PP and that someone used the PP to buff him while he levels is that cheating?
What if someone's next door friends Boyfriend Father botted his main and power level his SE buffer up and then used the buffer to power level a PP and that someone used the PP to buff him while he levels is that cheating?
Very few ever really understand Ashley, Sly. Don't worry ^^
And this question I find tedious, but my definite answer is no... unless this is a study on existentialist theory... then we'd have to go even deeper. I'm sorry, I can't correlate L2 with that...