:D I was actually wondering this this morning before work. Dion was about 1/10 of users, nobody, and i mean nobody in Branded during my early morning run.
Oh, to be a fly on the wall to know what and why would be a grand thing.
It will also be interesting to see / watch the market this weekend to see if this has a long term effect that all the chicken littles were screaming about if they suddenly went away.
Thanks for posting that bit of info, makes the day a bit brighter for sure !!
LOL I just took a look at few forums that is used alot by botters and it's funny how they cry.
I realy liked the post at bl** called "something is wrong"....I would call it "finaly now things are like they should".
If it's realy NCSoft that shut them down then I take my hat off for you and hope you close down the last 2 bot programs that are still out there and release a patch to block the current programs out.
to the botters at bl** that reads this...it took me 2.5 years to get 76/76 and enjoyed everymoment of it grinding with my friends and telling jokes on ventrilo.
Please say it's true! I can't wait to log in tonight and head to Varkas and actually be able to kill something.
from what I have seen in the other forum one of the 2 most used bot programs doesn't work at all at the moment and the other one will stop to work as soon as theyr bot time cards runs out. so you will see less and less bots in game I think.
The only thing that stopped working is their websites, they're now operating thru MSN so until the ppl behind those sites get shut down {the bots} will still be around.
Still it's a nice start, let's hope NC Soft will actually force them out of business and will also go after {other programs}(should be easy as those are run by Americans Go Go FBI) & {even more programs}(not likely as that's Russia).
{Made some edits. Im sure EVERYONE knows their names but for pete's sake lets not advertise them here. ~spam}
HOW is the manor??? Did anyone managed to exchange crops??
Do we have +1 for the live players??
I should read the posts more often, I could have changed the crops. :(
Al least someone tell me he did it, lie to me but make my day>
:D
Speaking on behalf on Bartz...
In the last 3 months, I have noted a HUGE increase in the ease in turning in manor crops. This has only gotten better and better over the past few months, and recently, I have been able to turn in popular seeds hours after manor restet time, even the NEXT DAY.
So, I have noticed the increased ease in exchanging seeds through the manor. It's been wonderful :D
In the last 3 months, I have noted a HUGE increase in the ease in turning in manor crops. This has only gotten better and better over the past few months, and recently, I have been able to turn in popular seeds hours after manor restet time, even the NEXT DAY.
So, I have noticed the increased ease in exchanging seeds through the manor. It's been wonderful :D
Not being mean but thats cause your server is dying. Its the same on Dev or Aria...try it on one of the busy servers. I am playing Phoenix and its a challenge.
Not being mean but thats cause your server is dying. Its the same on Dev or Aria...try it on one of the busy servers. I am playing Phoenix and its a challenge.
Server isn't really dying. You should come play here.
PvP all day long. I don't even have that much time to post on forums since I transferred back.
This thread got my attention and the thought of considerably less bots actually overwhelmed me. I re-subscribed and to my extreme surprise, a huge portion of bots are no longer with us (for now *crosses fingers*).
**** I wish it hadent taken them so very long to do this. So many players gone and the reason was consistantly "bots crowding players out". If they continue to finally have a fix for bots, their might be some hope to breath some life back to our servers.
It's better on some spots, but Varka and Bot Springs are still full. Funny to see botters coming with yet another train when the place is already crowded with them. It's nice that botters suffer the problem of xp spots full of bots, but in the end the real players are still those who get screwed.
Investigation takes too long, obviously. They need to quicken the process.
Funny thing is the bots can play, i cant cause someone traded me someone gear and i got banned for that...
Waiting for 6 hours from support answer and still no clue if is even that, or maybe i have been messing too mutch minds with my bot reports and the lack of action from Gm's
I just feel stupid at this point with the game support i dont mention the in game support as a lot of players already gave up on that, but the account support taking ages to be answered!!!
I never played any other game waiting ages for customer service answer, but maybe i was playing the wrong games, at least the recorded message on the account support phone is funny wonder if the one who have recorded ever played the game
Yeah we're all buffbots according to Pirotesa. Including us that sometimes don't even use macros to buff (yes, I do tab to my Prophet every 20 minutes to MANUALLY buff everyone).
So you know, I'm a buffbot because I set my buffer in autofollow. Oh my -cuts wrists-
-rolls eyes- It's a lost case, Rohirrim. Trust me.
Plenty of bots still ingame, they are called your buffbots. But you all aren't part of the problem, I forget that.
I haven't had an active account again until just recently, but I've lurked these forums enough to see some of the nonsense that you post.
Fact the facts - a "player" using a boxed buffer is in no way, shape, or form the same thing (or even remotely as detrimental) as an illegal bot that's controlled using a program. I don't know how anyone, in their right mind, could think something so ridiculous.
yea it is BS that people think that a boxed buff (most of the time) is a botbuffer - ok.. the trains in the cats, yea, but not real players.
And it blows that the outsourced GM's would ban for trading or buying gear - so I guess that means that anytime you buy from a sell shop, you can now get band.
Spam - please stop outsourcing the GM team... it looks really bad on the good GM's that you have.
Yeah we're all buffbots according to Pirotesa. Including us that sometimes don't even use macros to buff (yes, I do tab to my Prophet every 20 minutes to MANUALLY buff everyone).
So you know, I'm a buffbot because I set my buffer in autofollow. Oh my -cuts wrists-
-rolls eyes- It's a lost case, Rohirrim. Trust me.
Yes, If you use one or more accounts simultaneously in order to only advance the level of only one other account, and that secondary account, or in most cases, tertiary, quaternary, quinary or senary account in conjunction with your then target main, then you are ousting other would-be players that would have otherwise filled your "bot/boxed" account as a LIVE player! You are a detriment to the entire game structure.
But of course this behavior is acceptable in regards to what NC Soft deems "right". So you are not at fault at all... nice to have an "official" soap bar in order to wipe your conscience clean, isn't it?
Yes, If you use one or more accounts simultaneously in order to only advance the level of only one other account, and that secondary account, or in most cases, tertiary, quaternary, quinary or senary account in conjunction with your then target main, then you are ousting other would-be players that would have otherwise filled your "bot/boxed" account as a LIVE player! You are a detriment to the entire game structure.
As far as I'm concerned, I have 14 mains and no alts. So your argument is not good ;)
Yes, If you use one or more accounts simultaneously in order to only advance the level of only one other account, and that secondary account, or in most cases, tertiary, quaternary, quinary or senary account in conjunction with your then target main, then you are ousting other would-be players that would have otherwise filled your "bot/boxed" account as a LIVE player! You are a detriment to the entire game structure.
But of course this behavior is acceptable in regards to what NC Soft deems "right". So you are not at fault at all... nice to have an "official" soap bar in order to wipe your conscience clean, isn't it?
From the very beginning of the game there should be a limit of 1 account running at the time per 1 pc. It would reduce boxing, which is not good for this game (kills lot of classes and kills team play) and also make things harder for bot trains. But... its too late.
sorry bot most of the bot trains you see in game aren't even using the official client and to make a limitation like you are saying requires it to be on the client side.
no client = no limit on number of accounts
result:
bots 1
legit 0
Firstible, it's really easy to know if some1 is botting a buffer or BOXING a buffer. If you can't tell that then you know nothing about the game. What's illegal is botting in any kind of way, meaning using external software, and you can tell that too.
This post is a lie, there is no decreasind botting activity. Yeah yeah there were like 5 bots banned, but we are talking about HUNDREDS!! hot springs, catacombs... for God sake, Garden of Beasts is just a **** joke, it's easier to hit a bot than a mob ^^
GM's need to be seriously helped out, first by NCSoft and then by players in order to do their job well. In the meanwhile, we are gonna have those **** soulless dwarves running in front of 1 buffer, 1 bladedancer and 2 healers...
my "buff bot" was made because all you ****** real buffers refused to be in a party with a loldorf
honestly how many times have you chosen to go xp with your O.P titan friend instead of the bh in clan? and how different is it that i choose to xp with my own buffers OOP - where i get more xp than you choosing to xp in a fully stacked archer or destro group instead of helping the classes that struggle for xp so you can get more xp?
how many of you QQing "real" buffers have a crafter alt so you don't have to sacrifice your precious adena and how does me having a buffer alt to help me buff differ from you having a crafter alt to help you craft?
is it because i need to pay $45 a month and grind my alts to 78 while you just have to use a character slot and grind to 70?
my current xp group consists of my 78 bd and PP OOP and my 78 WC which i decided to grind to 79, shouldn't be too hard since she usually gets 10% a day however i also have my friends PP who i let leech in my group, obviously the PP is not a real toon or it wouldn't be allowed in group but he wants help lvling so he can get POF and help me on my crusade to destroy all real support
about time i said this again but none of you "real" buffers are welcome in my group. i 5 box better than i've seen any of you guys play your own single toon and i assume it has something to do with the fact you spent 60 or 70 lvls sitting afk in xp groups with the only requirements being "buff every 20 minuets with your +0 homu/acu and your +3 bw robes of doom and keep out of my way"
my "buff bot" was made because all you ****** real buffers refused to be in a party with a loldorf
honestly how many times have you chosen to go xp with your O.P titan friend instead of the bh in clan? and how different is it that i choose to xp with my own buffers OOP - where i get more xp than you choosing to xp in a fully stacked archer or destro group instead of helping the classes that struggle for xp so you can get more xp?
how many of you QQing "real" buffers have a crafter alt so you don't have to sacrifice your precious adena and how does me having a buffer alt to help me buff differ from you having a crafter alt to help you craft?
is it because i need to pay $45 a month and grind my alts to 78 while you just have to use a character slot and grind to 70?
my current xp group consists of my 78 bd and PP OOP and my 78 WC which i decided to grind to 79, shouldn't be too hard since she usually gets 10% a day however i also have my friends PP who i let leech in my group, obviously the PP is not a real toon or it wouldn't be allowed in group but he wants help lvling so he can get POF and help me on my crusade to destroy all real support
about time i said this again but none of you "real" buffers are welcome in my group. i 5 box better than i've seen any of you guys play your own single toon and i assume it has something to do with the fact you spent 60 or 70 lvls sitting afk in xp groups with the only requirements being "buff every 20 minuets with your +0 homu/acu and your +3 bw robes of doom and keep out of my way"
Best is to run around whole cata with no free room. All characters inside are spoils with kh56hk and similar names. After you run and write down all such names to petition you can see it in next 15s declined.
Thats the best part of antibotting campaign.
Yes, If you use one or more accounts simultaneously in order to only advance the level of only one other account, and that secondary account, or in most cases, tertiary, quaternary, quinary or senary account in conjunction with your then target main, then you are ousting other would-be players that would have otherwise filled your "bot/boxed" account as a LIVE player! You are a detriment to the entire game structure.
But of course this behavior is acceptable in regards to what NC Soft deems "right". So you are not at fault at all... nice to have an "official" soap bar in order to wipe your conscience clean, isn't it?
And now you're assuming that all the people that have buffers don't take LIVE buffers in parties.
And assumptions... well, you know what they say.
Most DECENT players that have boxed buffers will not hesitate to take a live player as a buffer. And that's the part that you idiotically refuse to understand.
No, we're not a detriment to the entire game structure. You are. And if I were to choose between my boxed SE and you, you bet I'd choose him. But that's just for you, Piro. I don't trust someone that can't even understand a simple difference between a bot and a true, legit player to buff me correctly.
Again I say, it's not boxed buffers that don't give you parties. It's your attitude. I thought that you were an ok person on PM's. Your constant PMS behavior now is making me rethink that.
And this will be the last time I ever reply to you on anything, because apparently, you have no idea how much of a fool out of yourself you're making.
my "buff bot" was made because all you ****** real buffers refused to be in a party with a loldorf
honestly how many times have you chosen to go xp with your O.P titan friend instead of the bh in clan? and how different is it that i choose to xp with my own buffers OOP - where i get more xp than you choosing to xp in a fully stacked archer or destro group instead of helping the classes that struggle for xp so you can get more xp?
how many of you QQing "real" buffers have a crafter alt so you don't have to sacrifice your precious adena and how does me having a buffer alt to help me buff differ from you having a crafter alt to help you craft?
is it because i need to pay $45 a month and grind my alts to 78 while you just have to use a character slot and grind to 70?
my current xp group consists of my 78 bd and PP OOP and my 78 WC which i decided to grind to 79, shouldn't be too hard since she usually gets 10% a day however i also have my friends PP who i let leech in my group, obviously the PP is not a real toon or it wouldn't be allowed in group but he wants help lvling so he can get POF and help me on my crusade to destroy all real support
about time i said this again but none of you "real" buffers are welcome in my group. i 5 box better than i've seen any of you guys play your own single toon and i assume it has something to do with the fact you spent 60 or 70 lvls sitting afk in xp groups with the only requirements being "buff every 20 minuets with your +0 homu/acu and your +3 bw robes of doom and keep out of my way"
welcome back piro
Hey dont forget my bish that is a buffbot too cause its a sub, not a main! Btw following Pirotesas logic each buffer that is boxed INSIDE party isnt a buffbot cause it doesnt help only ONE account :o
I was so sure that I was a buffbot according to Pirotesa, now I'm not sure anymore. So it means if I help other people with my buffers while actively buffing (not using even macros sometimes) my friends (YES, they're OTHER PEOPLE!!) while in party and playing my main at the same time, I'm not a buffbot anymore, cause I'm helping other people and not just myself??? Or if I usually constantly party my buffers that are in another account, hence not using just ONE account, I'm not a buffbot anymore??? Oh my!!!
Gee I'm having an existential crisis right now! -sulks-
Nanashi_Naomhan is right on. I mostly solo'ed my TK through level 57 with no OOP buffs when there were no noob buffs or fancy tank exp'ing skills. I shouted for parties a lot, but got the usual "you're not a dd, so no," "you're a useless tank," "lol, you're a TK," and even "what's a TK?" Pretty much similar case for dwarves.
At level 57, I decided to create a second account for my new SE. For myself, it's a fun class to play. And it also comes in useful for buffs with my odd playing hours when none of my friends are online or can't party.
A lot of us like L2, but can't get buffers because we play 'useless' classes. You may see us making our own buffers, then blame us for yourself not having a party. Sorry, try looking at it from other points of view. If live support weren't so focused on what exp-rate they could get, maybe they would have partied us in the first place. They could have had more friends and extra party invites. My in-game friends are the ones that party me whether or not I'm playing my exp rate-impaired TK or some uber dd alt.
<condensed soup>
Don't be so quick to throw all 'boxers' into the same category as cheaters. There are those who play the game as if it were a single player one. Seems silly and sometimes selfish to me, but there's no problem so long as they follow the EULA. They wouldn't party you or I in any case. Some box because live support won't party them. A lot of them, including myself, will gladly leave their boxed support logged out on the rare chance live support will party them. Then, there are third party program users, for boxes, mains, or whatever else. I share your disdain for this group.
</just add water>
Those are my thoughts on my experiences so far. I hope I don't come off as angry, but I wanted to add to this part of the argument. If you're on Aria server, I'm always up for a party. <3 live support. My TK is Sela.
Shik is right, I play an OL and have a hard time sometimes even in a large clan getting a party. I have a second account with an SE on it, but I would gladly and enthusiasticly accept a live buffer instead of my "boxed" buffer. Fortunately, my clan gives me great support and for the most part I can party with them. On days I cant, I have support.
my "buff bot" was made because all you ****** real buffers refused to be in a party with a loldorf
honestly how many times have you chosen to go xp with your O.P titan friend instead of the bh in clan? and how different is it that i choose to xp with my own buffers OOP - where i get more xp than you choosing to xp in a fully stacked archer or destro group instead of helping the classes that struggle for xp so you can get more xp?
how many of you QQing "real" buffers have a crafter alt so you don't have to sacrifice your precious adena and how does me having a buffer alt to help me buff differ from you having a crafter alt to help you craft?
is it because i need to pay $45 a month and grind my alts to 78 while you just have to use a character slot and grind to 70?
my current xp group consists of my 78 bd and PP OOP and my 78 WC which i decided to grind to 79, shouldn't be too hard since she usually gets 10% a day however i also have my friends PP who i let leech in my group, obviously the PP is not a real toon or it wouldn't be allowed in group but he wants help lvling so he can get POF and help me on my crusade to destroy all real support
about time i said this again but none of you "real" buffers are welcome in my group. i 5 box better than i've seen any of you guys play your own single toon and i assume it has something to do with the fact you spent 60 or 70 lvls sitting afk in xp groups with the only requirements being "buff every 20 minuets with your +0 homu/acu and your +3 bw robes of doom and keep out of my way"
welcome back piro
LOL, and you still prove how much of a sad shart case you are, and weak as well. You HAD to resort to boxing/botting, the crutch of any boxer/BOTTER. I'm not going to argue a point that is well accepted by obviously yourself, followed and accepted by so many and even more so condoned by the farkers at NC Soft. I could point out a much more eloquent and far more diplomatic explanation within the forums here that would trump your entirely and exceedingly selfish and ignorant point of view. But that would take common sense on your part to even understand.
Create benefit for yourself, no matter the cost. Of course that mentality may not destroy you, but it destroys any enviroment that you inhabit. Buffbots/boxes were not created because buffers couldn't always be there for "YOU". You created them because you COULD NOT HANDLE THE GAME JUST BEING WHO YOU CHOSE TO PLAY IN THE GAME!
You were weak and so used the excuse that "I have to have Buffs to lvl" And then went and trashed the actual players that could buff you! Using comments such as "Well, you can at least buff yourself!" And of course the next completely hypocritical comment "You can buff yourself, how can I level?" as if the buffer/healers could lvl without you.
But because there were so many whining little girls like you, NC Soft decided to help you all out, in return further extending the hand that would even further wipe out the lesser played classes that made you stronger, that you didn't appreciate. This took form first in eliminating MANY of the undead classes in the lvl 30 areas, mobs that many support classes could use to solo level.
The next step taken in order to coddle your little sucker of a mouth was to have scrolls that you could use to buff yourself in replacement of what a real support player class SHOULD have given you. Later this was expanded to include even more than just what the human and D/Elf support classes had. Event buff scrolls were popular, but all of a sudden you could use AA to buy them as well as even more expanded scrolls covering even more support class skills across many races/skills.
Herbs and newbie buffs were added later to aid in your constant whining about not being to lvl without buffs. Yet the LIVE players that could actually provide these buffs could not compete with the lvl 70+ buffs that were given in the cause to satiate your whining need for buffs, further eliminating the playstyle for the classes that had this job of buffing you! Now, we have even more herbs and even higher lvl newb buffs.
The game now, almost 5 years after it's beginning, is a completely different beast. And both NC Soft and players alike are responsible for the curent state of the game. But the players always have a choice. It's what makes Lineage2 different from... LOL, well there's only ONE other game at this point. I don't have to spell out what that choice is at the moment.
In the current stage that Lineage 2 is in, it's ok to emulate human style behavior through software, which is obviously not human. It's ok to notice that style/definition and do nothing to alleviate it, especially on the provider side of the game, namely NC Soft. It's ok to follow the flow and trend in the emulation/automation of human style behavior. It's ok to accept Emulated humans that are willing to pay for time within the game. It's ok to provide MINOR tools within the game in order to justify the larger human emulation/automation cashcow. It's ok to use hardware sources that can emulate/automate human instructions and that circumvent mass emulation/automation, yet allow "devoted" players to facilitate obnoxious and tedious playstyles that are part of the game design, yet the same players are completely unwilling to deal with... and QQ and end up... LOL, as if it needs further explanation.
Player that use buffpets are weak. Players that use buffpets and also bot them are not even weak, these days, they are respected. Alt-Tab in order to manipulate your... "LIVE" played buffpets are laughed at. But "LIVE" played buffpets are legit and add nothing to the problem, RIGHT... Obviously lot's of folks don't know how seeds Germinate!
Everything what you say it is true, but small BUT.
Unfortunatelly/fortunately l2 sand box is for many players, so if you are not clanless or peacefull clan you allways will face enemies.
Guess who will win: you with self buff + herbs, or enemy full buffed (ok lets say without songs/dances) when gear is equal?
Yes I agree that all that stuff killing support classes. But in other case, if no clan buffer online, you cant even to go out of town, because you will be easy frag.
Luckily I am in clan with clan hall, so I can get average buffs from there. Also I using greater potions. 20mins jump between ch and exp spot is a little bit annoying but I can deal with that.
Boxing is not ok, but 90%+ active players do that, and you are forced to do same thing if you seeking to reach same power as oponents.
None of what he said is true..following his ******ed logic everyone should reroll SE or DD cause thats the only legitimate way to get plvled for him. But wait..why take a SE in party..cant they handle their class by playing solo?
So, Piro, basically what you're saying is that NCSoft's responded to their customer's demands? I have a WC and an OL. My WC never has a problem getting a group. I can log in and get pm'ed in 10 minutes or less from people on my friendslist looking for a buffer for party.
You might try developing your /friendslist to get a reserve of players who are looking for groups instead of flaming everyone on the forums. Just a suggestion, but I think if you behaved a little better, and wined less, people might invite you along.
None of what he said is true..following his ******ed logic everyone should reroll SE or DD cause thats the only legitimate way to get plvled for him. But wait..why take a SE in party..cant they handle their class by playing solo?
I'm quoting stupidity... ******ed stupidity...
The point is no one should box/bot, especially a supposed "LEGIT" player. NC Soft allows you to do so, that does not make it beneficial to the game in the long term. This game, as well as many other games is TEAM oriented. Simply because you can circumvent that play structure does not make it right. All classes were designed to rely on each other, initially of course. The balance has been thrown off for a number of years now, thanks to NC Soft. Support classes should never have been able to have the current nukes they have now. Even MoH should never have been given to true support classes. But also, letting one player have multiple accounts in order to support a main account is something that should have been stopped immediately! This destroys the balance of the classes for a team oriented playstyle. Now it's too late, and so you have herbs and Newbie buffs.
It's sad that a game like WoW can wipe their gameplay slate relatively clean in regards to class balance, but Lineage 2 cannot.
So, Piro, basically what you're saying is that NCSoft's responded to their customer's demands? I have a WC and an OL. My WC never has a problem getting a group. I can log in and get pm'ed in 10 minutes or less from people on my friendslist looking for a buffer for party.
You might try developing your /friendslist to get a reserve of players who are looking for groups instead of flaming everyone on the forums. Just a suggestion, but I think if you behaved a little better, and wined less, people might invite you along.
Like many, you think I "go on" about this issue because it's personally related to my current ingame status. It's far from the truth. This is a major flaw in the game that has continued to grow and fester, it needs to be resolved. Just because the majority of players do not think it's fun or kool to play a support class, does not mean that it is not ACTUALLY fun and kool to someone else to play a support class. NC Soft and the players within the game need to foster this type of gameplay in order for the game to grow outside of it's current mindset. The more variety of playstyles you have within the game, the more attractive the game is to more people. It's a joke to introduce drastically different classes within the only to have certain classes eliminated through automation or as the case in Lineage 2 is, Greed.
The point is no one should box/bot, especially a supposed "LEGIT" player. NC Soft allows you to do so, that does not make it beneficial to the game in the long term. This game, as well as many other games is TEAM oriented. Simply because you can circumvent that play structure does not make it right. All classes were designed to rely on each other, initially of course. The balance has been thrown off for a number of years now, thanks to NC Soft. Support classes should never have been able to have the current nukes they have now. Even MoH should never have been given to true support classes. But also, letting one player have multiple accounts in order to support a main account is something that should have been stopped immediately! This destroys the balance of the classes for a team oriented playstyle. Now it's too late, and so you have herbs and Newbie buffs.
It's sad that a game like WoW can wipe their gameplay slate relatively clean in regards to class balance, but Lineage 2 cannot.
If you wanna quote stupidity, quote yourself. It IS allowed to box, you wont stop us from doing it by calling us falsly "bots". From the beginning the game was not designed to balance the classes. Profit of taking live buffer is too low, xploss too big. Some supports were completly useless at the begining, other are now. You spewing crap from your butthurt b grade SE wont change anything except making you look even more ******ed than you already do.
If you play a healer/buffer you are a healer/buffer coz u can't do anything else, wether you solo or party. If you bot a healer/buffer then you are a buffbot and deserve to vanish from Aden forever. As simple as that. There is no live buffbot or afk healer/buffer... it's just anthagonic.
Do you want to know the reason I started to box a SE?
I'm a WS and I SOLOED my way to lvl 54 WITHOUT any buffs at all because where ever I asked if some buffer/healer was intrested in a duo or if some group had a free spot I got kicked from the party or the buffer/healer quit the party when they saw what class I was.
They parties told me that they don't want to have me leach exp and the buffers/healers told me that they could earn more exp solo than partying with me.
So I got a second account, made a SE and lvled it as my MAIN to lvl 49 where it stayed of almost 2 years before I started to lvl it again as my MAIN to lvl 75 (73-75 solo and it went hell of alot easier than with my WS)
Before I got my SE to 49 and started to use her OOP with my WS I had to spam around 2k healing pots everyday to stay alive and to be able to lvl. I'm talking about C4 here.
If the healers/buffers that I tryed to party for over 6months hadn't refused to duo with a WS I would never had bought my 2nd account, so please don't tell me that the ones that BOX are only reason that you don't get a party on your SE.
I ALWAYS take a LIVE buffer/healer over a boxed one anytime, but to be honest I have only met 2 buffers so far that was willing to duo with a WS in 3 YEARS of playing L2.
Oh and one more thing...how many of the WS in Giran do you think are someones MAIN or how many do you think have they own WS ALT on theyr account to craft all they need?
isn't that the SAME as BOXING a healer/buffer? the ones with a WS alt make more adena than a live WS since they can sit in Giran 24/7 and lower the price to the floor making having a WS as MAIN almost as useless.
Since the WS is my main I have to go out and exp, vitality drops to 0 and I setup a craft shop over night, I wake up and the vitality is lvl 1.
If the WS was an alt then this would happen:
Level the main, the vitality drops to 0, you log the char out during the night and log the WS alt, you wake up logout the WS and login on the main with vitality 2.
You can play however you want with your box account as long as you don't break any rules... so don't listen to anyone anymore about it. Box your toons to benefit yourself while soloing.. it's ok... Just don't refuse a live party because of 1 hour of less xp and adena coz you will miss a lot of fun.
The problem is when live players refuse live parties... we all know that bots are there, I just see them like mob stealing npc's (lmao) so, I like to box my chars when soloing but I never say 'No' to a live party. It's not a 'who does what' issue anymore... it's just an attitude matter.
So, don't need to justify if some ***** thinks you are botting because of having a boxed account, any real-good player can tell if your toon is a box or a bot, just ignore them... Enjoy the game and say YES to live parties!!!!
If you wanna quote stupidity, quote yourself. It IS allowed to box, you wont stop us from doing it by calling us falsly "bots". From the beginning the game was not designed to balance the classes. Profit of taking live buffer is too low, xploss too big. Some supports were completly useless at the begining, other are now. You spewing crap from your butthurt b grade SE wont change anything except making you look even more ******ed than you already do.
You failed to understand what Pirotesa was talking about. Of course it is allowed. Of course there are problems of balance between classes. That doesn't make buffbox a good idea.
Oh and one more thing...how many of the WS in Giran do you think are someones MAIN or how many do you think have they own WS ALT on theyr account to craft all they need?
isn't that the SAME as BOXING a healer/buffer? the ones with a WS alt make more adena than a live WS since they can sit in Giran 24/7 and lower the price to the floor making having a WS as MAIN almost as useless.
Since the WS is my main I have to go out and exp, vitality drops to 0 and I setup a craft shop over night, I wake up and the vitality is lvl 1.
If the WS was an alt then this would happen:
Level the main, the vitality drops to 0, you log the char out during the night and log the WS alt, you wake up logout the WS and login on the main with vitality 2.
who benefits the most?
No it's not the same. It's the same account. If you want to use a slot for WS, it's in the deal. And who knows, it may become your main one day. And you can play a WS as main and put another for manufacturing shop. If it's on the same account, they don't play another character at the same time. Like you, they choose between xping a character or letting one in town. The debate about WS who should be main and not alt is intellectual *********ion.
However, if you use another account to let a character in town while you're playing with another, there are similarities with buffboxes.
If you wanna quote stupidity, quote yourself. It IS allowed to box, you wont stop us from doing it by calling us falsly "bots". From the beginning the game was not designed to balance the classes. Profit of taking live buffer is too low, xploss too big. Some supports were completly useless at the begining, other are now. You spewing crap from your butthurt b grade SE wont change anything except making you look even more ******ed than you already do.
Bull sh
Have you calculated exp bonus when duo vs solo?
How you can compare buff box, which have minimal gear for not die and just buff main char?
That a stupid aproach to use support classes only as buffers. I will open yours eyes: support classes also can do damage! Realy! Support classes puts more survival to yours party! Like healing party members, crowd control mobs, sleep or root mobs.
If it is new for you what I have said, so start to learn l2...
It is possible to hook 1-5 buff boxes on yours super duper damage dealer, but such "party" will be effective only 30%. Much better and effective is to have live support.
i always say my se was born from the fire of a hundred booms
back when i was 57 i would literally kill 2 mobs and rest for HP, half my friggn posts on this forum was me chatting cause i spent 90% of my game time sitting to regen
i shouted for months looking for buffers - whenever i got a chance to aoe i was constantly turned down by buffers in favor of basically any other class (back before aoe nerfs when daggers/BD/SWS/tyrants poled better than dorfs), if it was single target killing the buffers were with the nukers or the archers or more likely with the daggers
the second i dinged 58 and got big boom all of a sudden my chat window was filled with PMs from buffers begging me for parties and i even took a few into party just so i could crack the double figures of total parties from 0-58
lucky for me i had advance warning of the big boom nerfs and knowing that i would never see another buffer in group again i started my SE
all the live buffers on my server currently exist only for HB groups or destro forge groups and wouldn't go near a dorf unless it was their buddy's crafter alt
once again none of you real buffers are welcome in my group, every single sub/box i've met plays your class better than you do and i get better xp without you.
claim selfishness as much as you want and yes i do agree, selfish buffers are the reason so many ppl are forced to dual box
Bull sh
Have you calculated exp bonus when duo vs solo?
How you can compare buff box, which have minimal gear for not die and just buff main char?
That a stupid aproach to use support classes only as buffers. I will open yours eyes: support classes also can do damage! Realy! Support classes puts more survival to yours party! Like healing party members, crowd control mobs, sleep or root mobs.
If it is new for you what I have said, so start to learn l2...
It is possible to hook 1-5 buff boxes on yours super duper damage dealer, but such "party" will be effective only 30%. Much better and effective is to have live support.
Easy example.. GC AoE, Im on Bish, my gf on Destro, we're boxing a BD oop. Now we take an EE from the ally in our grp and get suddenly haf xp.
2nd example. My main is SH, my gfs main is EE. Obviously we need to box a SE and sometimes a PP, and for sure we wouldnt be 79 if we wouldve taken live SE/PPs in party all the time.
Telling me to l2p and needing to rely on support with a DD is just hilarious. There are only few places left in L2 where you actually need live support, and on those places you obviously take them. TBH I DO prefer live BDs when Im playing my archer, simply if none is on in my clan/ally/fl Im just boxing my own. Too many bad experiences made me stop looking for random live support.
I do understand what Pirotesa is trying to say, shes just way too extreme, even blind in her rage. Boxes are not bots. Bots deserve to be hang, rolled over, set on fire and quartered..boxes are a necessity if you want to go somewhere in this game. Its not boxed buffers that "killed" live support. Its the gameflaw that was here from the beginning, the unability of NC to ban bots, and last but not least the greedyness of live support that was refusing to play with certain classes.
I do however agree that most of the 78 buffbots are indeed botted toons.
I have to say when i started the game in early C3 if you were and SE with VR you had absolutley no problems getting parties. EE"s were a little tougher to get into a party. Now you hardly see a "live" healer/buffer". When you say botting i think of the use of a third pty program running the toon and you can usually tell when that is happening. I created a second account myself but when using my box it is on another computer right next to me running in its own window. So i am technically live on both accounts. Also i have no problem putting people in party or even if they just wanna run back over for buffs every 20min. So you have to be careful how you sterotype a box as a bot. IMO
"All classes were designed to rely on each other, initially of course. The balance has been thrown off for a number of years now, thanks to NC Soft."
I agree here as well. If there was a fair amount of class balance, parties wouldn't be so biased in what classes they invite. If the dev's stuck to the initial principles requiring teamwork and reliance on others, there probably wouldn't be noob buffs, buff scrolls, shadow weapon tickets, or common gear. These all further remove player interaction and give players a solo mentality to begin with.
Starting from nothing, a player can make a new ranged, melee, or support with the current system. In none of those cases does the player have to interact with other players for some time while leveling at a decent pace.
Greed helps amplify these problems. Maximizing exp rate... toss the in-party support and leachers, make your own OOP support, and never invite other players. Need cheap ss... make one's own WS. Need mats... don't bother with the BH and use the manor instead. You can't get rid of people's greedy actions, but you can make those actions less enticing.
Overall, I agree with some points Pirotesa made. Hammering out fixes in Game Suggestions is probably more productive. And when that doesn't work and L2 is unbearable, the final choice is made with one's pocketbook. I'm going to quit posting in this train of a thread before it de-rails and explodes on its way over the cliff.
once again none of you real buffers are welcome in my group, every single sub/box i've met plays your class better than you do and i get better xp without you.
claim selfishness as much as you want and yes i do agree, selfish buffers are the reason so many ppl are forced to dual box
Welcome in Gracia Part 2. The players of support classes that excluded you from parties are for most not playing anymore. The current players of support classes have no clue what time you're talking about and already have enough difficulties with newbie buffs, pots and scrolls, so you don't need to serve them your out-of-date grudge that they can't understand.
It's time to be open your eyes and stop having the same wrong behavior that the people you don't like have. :cool:
it's not a grudge
"real" buffers taught me a valuable lesson, that being that you should do whatever is in your best interest to get the maximum amount of xp and adena even if it means screwing over other players for your own selfish needs
for me the max amount of xp and cash i get is soloing with my 3 or 4 OOP support so once again you are not welcome
i 5 box better than i've seen any of you guys play your own single toon and i assume it has something to do with the fact you spent 60 or 70 lvls sitting afk in xp groups with the only requirements being "buff every 20 minuets with your +0 homu/acu and your +3 bw robes of doom and keep out of my way"
I guess it's not that easy to find live support when you play from Australia :p
it's not a grudge
"real" buffers taught me a valuable lesson, that being that you should do whatever is in your best interest to get the maximum amount of xp and adena even if it means screwing over other players for your own selfish needs
for me the max amount of xp and cash i get is soloing with my 3 or 4 OOP support so once again you are not welcome
Oh no, they didn't teach you to be selfish, you figured it by yourself. Well, if you're so stuck with XP needs that you skip the interrest of having the game online and not offline, it's your problem.
But while you're posting, you don't get XP! :D
I don't care, I have fun in non-optimized parties too.
Okay, it seems that this thread has gotten a little flame happy and way off topic. Personal attacks or accusations of botting won't be tolerated here. Please keep future posts constructive and refrain from personal attacks or belittling language towards other players.