I find it strange that no alarm is going off when ever a player is entereing the hide mode...they are basicly becoming GM's everytime they do that and to do that they have to send false packs/commands to the server.
nah, they send "lag packets" which are legit and even you send them from time to time when your pc lags/swaps, mostly noticable is it if you 2box and let the box follow you then when you reach so called load zone (lag zone) your 2box is low priority process and takes lot of time to load the new zone so it will send "lag packets" which will show as "hide", your 2box will disappear, lose follow and appear few secs later...same thing, ofc its not legit cuz another software is sending the packets, but its close to undetectable
Nothing is undetectable, each software has a name, size, data of creation, keylogs, etc etc and NC CAN do something to detect undesidered processes in your system and get your IP, account information, and the name of the process (a.k.a. cheat program) and BAN YOUR FREAKING ***. ^^ so, if you know that much about how radar works and the "lagg packets" which is also an intermediate-advance information you should know what I talk about too =) so nothing is even close to undetectable.
Nope, as far as I know, detecting other software withing client's pc is against law in some countries, for example USA. So NCNA cant detect other software running cuz they would break law and thats not good thing :D. Thats the most limiting thing of detecting most software. Thats why i say its close to undetectable on the server side where ncsoft actualy can do that.
Well.. I provided NCSoft these tools so that they would stop their excuses... but a new one came.
Fortunately the GMs are doing something.. or were. Even this morning I had a huge discussion with a GM.. because they took 11 hours to ban a player that was spamming an adena site in white chat.
I'll only say this.. this game.. with Blizzard's GM Team and Tech support would be awesome... but unfortunately we have a great game with lousy support team.. and they have a great support team.. with a lousy game. Natural balance..perhaps?
nah, they send "lag packets" which are legit and even you send them from time to time when your pc lags/swaps, mostly noticable is it if you 2box and let the box follow you then when you reach so called load zone (lag zone) your 2box is low priority process and takes lot of time to load the new zone so it will send "lag packets" which will show as "hide", your 2box will disappear, lose follow and appear few secs later...same thing, ofc its not legit cuz another software is sending the packets, but its close to undetectable
There is no lag packets. There are ValidatePosition and Appearence. And author of ur soft using it very well.
Well.. I provided NCSoft these tools so that they would stop their excuses... but a new one came.
Fortunately the GMs are doing something.. or were. Even this morning I had a huge discussion with a GM.. because they took 11 hours to ban a player that was spamming an adena site in white chat.
I'll only say this.. this game.. with Blizzard's GM Team and Tech support would be awesome... but unfortunately we have a great game with lousy support team.. and they have a great support team.. with a lousy game. Natural balance..perhaps?
Natural balance, haha =)
This game would be a real best seller with a competent GM crew, ooh how I morn.... :(
localhost: yea, propably, i call them lag packets, i never cared about L2 packets or anything like that so i odnt know exact way, but you know what i mean...and i dont use any soft, so author of my soft is not using it...but ofc proly all "hide" software use it
Natural balance, haha =)
This game would be a real best seller with a competent GM crew, ooh how I morn.... :(
Sorry to dissapoint you. But this game would never be popular with the WoW crowd. WoW is easy, there's no real challenge in it. That's why most people play that as their MMO (first MMO in many cases). Very few of the WoW population would play this game past the first 1-2 months
(doesn't make the game bad, good/bad is a matter of opinion, but it would never get over 250k-ish subs in NA/EU even if everything about it was perfect. It's an Asian grinder. Which means it's too slow paced for the majority of the MMO gamers.)
Even if i hate wow with all my guts I have to say that you're wrong, how can wow be more easy than L2 when in L2 they use the bot program and they go on with their lives. And when they come back home...Ohhh what do you know they are lvl 80. Lineage 2 is easy, would be hard indeed if the bots wouldn't be around and the adena market would disappear over night.
With the latest changes they made it even more user friendly and if they would actually take the time to resolve the bot problem then blizzard will start to worry about losing subscribers.
So in conclusion both games are easy to play. L2 will grow only if they will get rid of the bot problem. But that's never going to happen as we all know it.
Off the record: AION is full of bots, the test server is full of them. Could that be only a coincidence?
So many 3rd party programs are used that you can now see everyone on your radar with class, lvl, hp, cp, gear etc., have an alarm go off if enemy from a list comes anywhere near you, autotarget them, spam your cp pots for you and maybe in future a program that smashes your attack key for you too. With this and everyone on the big sides de-tagging to join bot trains every other day... god **** pointless.
So many 3rd party programs are used that you can now see everyone on your radar with class, lvl, hp, cp, gear etc., have an alarm go off if enemy from a list comes anywhere near you, autotarget them, spam your cp pots for you and maybe in future a program that smashes your attack key for you too. With this and everyone on the big sides de-tagging to join bot trains every other day... god **** pointless.
why do you think I just PvE?
Being legit and PvP against bots and people that use the radar or what ever it's called (usualy they are using both bot and radar program) is like a little mice trying to kill a lion.
Being legit and PvP against bots and people that use the radar or what ever it's called (usualy they are using both bot and radar program) is like a little mice trying to kill a lion.
nah, you can pvp them too...most of my const part ymembers dont use any software and we still manage to kill a lot, i still enjoy the pvp despite the cheating everywhere
Sorry to dissapoint you. But this game would never be popular with the WoW crowd. WoW is easy, there's no real challenge in it. That's why most people play that as their MMO (first MMO in many cases). Very few of the WoW population would play this game past the first 1-2 months
(doesn't make the game bad, good/bad is a matter of opinion, but it would never get over 250k-ish subs in NA/EU even if everything about it was perfect. It's an Asian grinder. Which means it's too slow paced for the majority of the MMO gamers.)
Sorry to disappoint you. But I wasn't talking about the WoW population, even though some of them would indeed play L2 instead.
nah, you can pvp them too...most of my const part ymembers dont use any software and we still manage to kill a lot, i still enjoy the pvp despite the cheating everywhere
your group is a very very small minority.
the reason you CAN pvp them with your group is simply because most of you probably got a full bossjewel set, s80 gear, oe'ed weap and at least 2 of you are hero.
as for most that refuse to join this cheatfest (with this i mean refuse to join a side) its a hopeless situation atm.
it's either ignore everything that happens at the "endgame" and don't be competitive at all or simply quit.
unfortunatly even when you try to ignore everything and play your own game you are still being grieved by these cheating scumbags that call themself "pro factors".
ps. ty nya and your group for everything you have done for me. the last few months were a blast for me :)
nah, you can pvp them too...most of my const part ymembers dont use any software and we still manage to kill a lot, i still enjoy the pvp despite the cheating everywhere
I'd be curious how you know this for sure. I knew people who were very anti-cheat when we were playing only to find out after we both quit that, yeah, they really did cheat.
Unless you're sitting on their lap while they are playing, you can't know. You just can't.
I'd be curious how you know this for sure. I knew people who were very anti-cheat when we were playing only to find out after we both quit that, yeah, they really did cheat.
Unless you're sitting on their lap while they are playing, you can't know. You just can't.
Ofc, i cant be sure of anything, but as with everything you can be sure enough to state it as "fact". I know for example c0ren so long that i am close to 100% sure that he doesnt use any software and i can say this about others. And tbh, ppl in ally like X and ITT dont really have problems to admit or even brag about cheating. For lot of players use of those software stopped to be cheating and stopped to be something to care about to hide to deny long time ago.
your group is a very very small minority.
the reason you CAN pvp them with your group is simply because most of you probably got a full bossjewel set, s80 gear, oe'ed weap and at least 2 of you are hero.
as for most that refuse to join this cheatfest (with this i mean refuse to join a side) its a hopeless situation atm.
it's either ignore everything that happens at the "endgame" and don't be competitive at all or simply quit.
unfortunatly even when you try to ignore everything and play your own game you are still being grieved by these cheating scumbags that call themself "pro factors".
ps. ty nya and your group for everything you have done for me. the last few months were a blast for me :)
Not having uber gear is no excuse of pvp.. check this image for example:
79 Dagger.. usual(and actual) hero.. full drac, was live.. and has a full boss jewel. Known botter.. and bought account.
I was wearing +3 Heavy Tallum / +4 Tall*Dam / +3 Majestic Jewels.
Point is never giving up.. I annoyed him so much and didn't let him get away when he got out of MP... so +1 for me.
I spent all the time since I came back being ganked and learning to pvp when in lower numbers / lesser gear.. eventually you'll be able to stand your ground.. and when you have equal gear.. your skill will rock them.
I've been losing the will to pvp.. because my enemies.. or 90% of them.. only can pvp, thanks to Sniffer. So.. while they consider them "pro-factor", I call them noobs and carebears.
thing is most of the players on my side will stop using 3rd party software if NC Soft would ban ppl for real as right now they only use it to counter the heavy usage of those progs by our enemies.. gotta love the good old "keeping up with the competition" argument..
if NC Soft can't make/keep this game Fair Play then expect to see soon 99% of the whole player base using them..
thing is most of the players on my side will stop using 3rd party software if NC Soft would ban ppl for real as right now they only use it to counter the heavy usage of those progs by our enemies.. gotta love the good old "keeping up with the competition" argument..
if NC Soft can't make/keep this game Fair Play then expect to see soon 99% of the whole player base using them..
Yep.
If NCSoft keeps "setting examples".. starting on heroes.. which are usually known people.. botters will eventually reduce botting times.. or maybe.. even stop completely.
... tbh, ppl in ally like X and ITT dont really have problems to admit or even brag about cheating. For lot of players use of those software stopped to be cheating and stopped to be something to care about to hide to deny long time ago.
Quoted for truth.
Even bot protectors in your own ally don't detag anymore. One RedSky dagger was so blatant at telling us to move out of an IT room so he could restart the bot train that we had just killed. Obviously we refused and then got a war invite with 3 minutes.
We try and be truly neutral and not prefer any of these major sides but when one of the big sides starts to bully you because your legimate XP gets in the way of their cheating then it gets a bit silly.
What I am basically trying to say is that nowadays cheating/botting is so commonplace and accepted that players have supreme confidence that they won't get banned for it - no matter how blatant they are. This is ultimately because there is no actual in game support.
79 Dagger.. usual(and actual) hero.. full drac, was live.. and has a full boss jewel. Known botter.. and bought account.
I was wearing +3 Heavy Tallum / +4 Tall*Dam / +3 Majestic Jewels.
Point is never giving up.. I annoyed him so much and didn't let him get away when he got out of MP... so +1 for me.
I spent all the time since I came back being ganked and learning to pvp when in lower numbers / lesser gear.. eventually you'll be able to stand your ground.. and when you have equal gear.. your skill will rock them.
I've been losing the will to pvp.. because my enemies.. or 90% of them.. only can pvp, thanks to Sniffer. So.. while they consider them "pro-factor", I call them noobs and carebears. Have you been recently in a Siege or vs botters who consistently 2-shots all <80 ?
Botting gives all the advantages a player can dream off :
- Time off to do something else
- Level while sleeping
- Dedicate 100% of your in-game time for pvp.
Basically, botting erases the worste of L2 with is the grind fest and xp penalty. While you need to spend 80% of your playtime killing mobs, they dedicate 80% of their time killing players.
After 1 year, considering we have 2 players effectivelly playing 4 hours a day.
Legit player will be level 75, with near to zero pvp experience but a great pve experience/abilities.
Botting player will be level +80, with near to zero pve experience but a great pvp experiene/abilities.
Botting not only destroys the economy.. it destroys the very essence of what a competition is and don't ***iin come here tell us legit that we got no excuses ! >.<
There is no competition possible whatsoever.. stop dreamin!
#######
The irony though is watching and reading botters, whining and moaning about the latest pvp botting program.. that totally cracks me up!
Oh and if you think I dislike/despise botters.. you can't imagine what I feel vs NC : they are ultimately responsible of this situation, kinda like a government that would leave to their citizen the job of their police while asking them to be "nice" or report any wrong doing. It supposed to be their job, not ours : denouncement systems are a bad solution.. it breaks the player community, puts suspicions and dissensions among us.
bah anyway.. cheater discussions are old news i just can't believe it's still debated here..after so many year of complacency from NC, you guys still believe there will be light in this tunnel? Come-on , I admit they've done a lot recently , much more than in the past 4 years and I'm to the point that its good enough for me. The other solution would be to quit.. and I'm not ready for it...yet.
If NCSoft keeps "setting examples".. starting on heroes.. which are usually known people.. botters will eventually reduce botting times.. or maybe.. even stop completely.
I think that will be the only way to get people stop is to ban the clearly botted hero's - the funny part is that while they are hero they still bot.
Have you been recently in a Siege or vs botters who consistently 2-shots all <80 ?
Botting gives all the advantages a player can dream off :
- Time off to do something else
- Level while sleeping
- Dedicate 100% of your in-game time for pvp.
Basically, botting erases the worste of L2 with is the grind fest and xp penalty. While you need to spend 80% of your playtime killing mobs, they dedicate 80% of their time killing players.
After 1 year, considering we have 2 players effectivelly playing 4 hours a day.
Legit player will be level 75, with near to zero pvp experience but a great pve experience/abilities.
Botting player will be level +80, with near to zero pve experience but a great pvp experiene/abilities.
Botting not only destroys the economy.. it destroys the very essence of what a competition is and don't ***iin come here tell us legit that we got no excuses ! >.<
There is no competition possible whatsoever.. stop dreamin!
yea, cheaters are usualy higherlvls, but if it wouldnt be cheaters, it would be ppl with destros friend aoeing fog you would be 2shoted by, lvl dif or beeing 2shoted is not really that much problem of cheating....cheating in pvp etc has much different effects, like autotargets, autoassits, radars, hide, pot spam, etc etc....my legit friend will proly 2shot most of you despite we are legit
Cheating, in any form of chape is the problem.. a legit 2shotting me is fair game : he/she put time and effort to achieve it, while I didn't. I'd be gladly 2shot like that.. problem is : atm you can't say that cause you can't know if they were or not cheating.
Hell, I see your sig and i'm thinking "holy gee.. only a cheater could be that high on so many toons! And until NC successfully bans the cheating there will be nothing you could say to prove me otherwise.
That's what cheating in L2 did : the competition has been deleted long ago.
Cheating, in any form of chape is the problem.. a legit 2shotting me is fair game : he/she put time and effort to achieve it, while I didn't. I'd be gladly 2shot like that.. problem is : atm you can't say that cause you can't know if they were or not cheating.
Hell, I see your sig and i'm thinking "holy gee.. only a cheater could be that high on so many toons! And until NC successfully bans the cheating there will be nothing you could say to prove me otherwise.
That's what cheating in L2 did : the competition has been deleted long ago.
you can think what you want, i know i am legit and thats enough for me...but you not helping the situation as well, some highlvl legit ppl will see that everyone thinks about them that they are cheaters anyway, so why not start cheating then if its no difference, i would never do it, but i bet tehre are ppl who would/did
After 1 year, considering we have 2 players effectivelly playing 4 hours a day.
Legit player will be level 75, with near to zero pvp experience but a great pve experience/abilities.
Botting player will be level +80, with near to zero pve experience but a great pvp experiene/abilities.
This is bad example. If you are 75 after a year of pve 4 hours a day, well... you fail. You should be at least 79. Or maybe you xp with no shots and buffs?
btw AlphaCentori, there are ways how to xp faster than 99% bottrains can xp, as I mentioned fog aoe with oop support and similar stuff,y ou can be 79/79 in weeks not years how you said and totaly legit
btw AlphaCentori, there are ways how to xp faster than 99% bottrains can xp, as I mentioned fog aoe with oop support and similar stuff,y ou can be 79/79 in weeks not years how you said and totaly legit
very few people have access to this kind of levelling capacity. its great that you and yours do, but saying "everyone should" or "this should be standard" or mentioning this in a casual tone really shows how much you know of the majority of L2 servers. good for you and congrats on your acheivements, it really is good and i applaud it - however very very few people will be able to follow this example.
very few people have access to this kind of levelling capacity. its great that you and yours do, but saying "everyone should" or "this should be standard" or mentioning this in a casual tone really shows how much you know of the majority of L2 servers. good for you and congrats on your acheivements, it really is good and i applaud it - however very very few people will be able to follow this example.
most ppl who wanna be highlvl have access to this kind of leveling capacity, if you want to be highlvl its not hard, if you dont really want that much, you lvl much slower, more effort = more results, all you need is 76 dest, highlvl buffer (there are crapload of them) and sws or bd, every decent clan has some of those, and you can lvl lot of ppl with that and very fast...if you dont have 76 dest, its pretty fast to make one...yea ofc for newbie player its not an option unless he has friends highlvl, but for all others its possible and there is not just fog, but mos aoe, pagans and other decent spots
I think that will be the only way to get people stop is to ban the clearly botted hero's - the funny part is that while they are hero they still bot.
That's because NCSoft has given them the "go ahead" to bot. Not enforcing their rules is the same as not having them in the first place.
While I applaud Spam's recent activities (and the global notification thereof) it is too little too late. Yeah, he's caught some but there is still a sense of it being safe (one only need read a few other forums to know this). Still, showing up to check out certain areas is the absolute worst way of getting rid of botters. It's high profile but low success rate.
NCSoft completely missed the boat (or bot) on this issue. It's done. Lineage II is a cheater's game. End of story.
Basically, botting erases the worste of L2 with is the grind fest and xp penalty.
Actually those 2 things you hate are the 2 reasons I even bother to play L2...Not for the PvP (got 16 or 26 PvP score after playing for soon 3 year active), but for the PvE and to have fun with my friends while doing so.
Sure I do kill bots, but I see them as just another type of mobs not as an actual player.
My main reasons are for friends and clan activities. I still get some fun in pve but it's not my incent to log in game now. ;)
Slayer, I gave a very simplistic example.. not a frakin thesis, thank you captain obvious for saying that Legit player could reach a different level. However, this was not the purpose of my example. Please re-read >.<
Oh and Nya, what SPudnik said,
You know very little about the average gamer community obviously. To read here, some of you posters, telling us we should all be 79 in weeks because we should/can all have access to at least 3 major support toons out of party and a major DD (obviously in top gears) that will gladly let us leech in a party 24/7 and for free... shows that you have absolutely no clue as to what a casual gamer is, what they want to achieve and most importantly how they want it!
Let me re-clarify : my reactions were after megatron's post about legits having no excuses for pvp and also some of Nya's points on this matter. So, again : botters & cheaters get all the advantages , erase all the penalties. It's not just about economics, it's the essence of competition we're talking about. PvPing with cheaters is not pvp and adds 0 (zero) added value to this game.
You were asking me why I'm not or should not be botting after all the stuffs I've said? Indeed, I've been asking myself the question for as long as i know about cheats in L2 (aka - prelude and the perching exploit, the bugged quests and dupe ones). I mean even ebaying would not be a problem for me : i could have absolutely no economic issue to buy full 80 accounts. Hell, I remember my PS one (Playstation) days were i would have used any cheats available in game when i was blocked. I couldn't care less about it.
So why don't I? Well simply because I chose not to... and that's precisely my biggest issue here (and shoud be yours too). Other than my own personal view on how I should play the game, there is near zero incent (or fear) to tell me not to. NC's recent (and great) attempts won't erase 4 years of complacency with all forms of cheats. Asking here for ban on those who are now botting their bots (lol) is just another proof that this game is totally rotten as for the competition aspect.
There is not competition in L2: quit dreaming, stop asking legits to compete vs cheaters..for "peeeveeepeee" or even PvE and welcome back to reality.
ps : Just let NC or should i say keep pushing NCNA to do their banning job not only on botters but also of all kind of cheats (ebay, account sharing, etc..) though, that's something they seem better nowadays.
Nya never said people should be 79 in weeks. Just IF you put dedication into it (like 4 hours/day as mentionned by someone else), there are ways to xp faster than bots, up to as fast as 79 in weeks. That means that you WANT to xp fast. If you stay in a friendly casual clan, of course you won't have as much opportunities to xp very fast. Still if you're in a half-decent clan, you shouldn't be stuck to crappy xp spots.
i'll warrant that you need to invest time in grinding to get your high level. but tbh 4hrs a day everyday is a bit much. most of my clan is on for 1-2hrs, sets a shop after that and is gone. most of my clan is 6x. and yes, some of them are live buffers. mains. they dont box, and ive de-activated my box in favour of them.
nya implied that my clan is somehow bad. we've all been playing for a long time. we've all got 5-6 alts all 4-6x. theres just not enough time for casual players to get to where you people are. just isnt.
if i asked someone in the top end of my server to buff me oop for 5 hrs while i smack things i'd be laughed at for two reasons: 1. im not part of their clan. 2. they have no reason to help me.
take your "every good clan has multiple oop buff*****es and a bunch of 76+Destros" and let me solo in peace.
i want to exp fast, but im not leaving my clan. thanks, but sorry.
Nya never said people should be 79 in weeks. Just IF you put dedication into it (like 4 hours/day as mentionned by someone else)
It's getting old, READ before answering me plx...
That someone else was me and it was a example regarding the stupidity of saying that legit should pvp vs cheaters. My answers to that are :
- There's no competition first of all because of cheating
- There is no way for you to prove me your 80+ are legit, because of NCNA historical lack of enforcment - so eat up your "you should be 79 in weeks of month".
- Stop whining and moaning about botters who bot their pvpve because it's unfair against botters who bot their pve only !
Now if you want to discuss about xp strategy for fast leveling, that should be done in another topic
Sorry to dissapoint you. But this game would never be popular with the WoW crowd. WoW is easy, there's no real challenge in it. That's why most people play that as their MMO (first MMO in many cases). Very few of the WoW population would play this game past the first 1-2 months
(doesn't make the game bad, good/bad is a matter of opinion, but it would never get over 250k-ish subs in NA/EU even if everything about it was perfect. It's an Asian grinder. Which means it's too slow paced for the majority of the MMO gamers.)
More stupidity.
He is not talking about WoW playerbase, moron.
He is talking about a competent GM Crew, like those of EverQuest, EverQuest II, World of Warcraft, and Warhammer Online.
GMs and players are different entities, and L2 is an easy game. It just takes longer to level, and things cost more. That dose not = a difficult game.
79 Dagger.. usual(and actual) hero.. full drac, was live.. and has a full boss jewel. Known botter.. and bought account.
I was wearing +3 Heavy Tallum / +4 Tall*Dam / +3 Majestic Jewels.
Point is never giving up.. I annoyed him so much and didn't let him get away when he got out of MP... so +1 for me.
I spent all the time since I came back being ganked and learning to pvp when in lower numbers / lesser gear.. eventually you'll be able to stand your ground.. and when you have equal gear.. your skill will rock them.
I've been losing the will to pvp.. because my enemies.. or 90% of them.. only can pvp, thanks to Sniffer. So.. while they consider them "pro-factor", I call them noobs and carebears.
Lol, your clan (SWAT) are uber cheaters and botter themselves. I used to be in Interimo when I transferred, before I deactivated my accounts and all the people who mattered left the clan.
There are a lot of brought toons that suck. The AW hero sold his account and used to be in NoFear, and he was a good dagger player. The new owner sucks. Gratz on killing a dagger who probably doesn't even know how to play his toon. Not all botters suck at playing L2. Look at the top ally (NoFear, which are filled with botters, and some of the players in your clan).