AmissWalker is the best dagger, they got the most damage output and thats what counts for a DPS class.
TH gets a very close second place though, mostly because of their op stealth skill.
Read the above posts... us soulbreakers can't be classified so we were thrown in here with them **** daggers like the pieces of fresh meat we are:)
soulbreakers are under the support class.
AmissWalker is the best dagger, they got the most damage output and thats what counts for a DPS class.
TH gets a very close second place though, mostly because of their op stealth skill.
TH are the best dagger thats how it is and always will be.
****... didn't want this to happen again... 1) SB are not support... 2) they are not daggers... and their skills aren't closer to daggers, if so they would be closer to a debuffer/nuker...
You cannot only play melee or nuker style, you need to combine them. That's about it.
****... didn't want this to happen again... 1) SB are not support... 2) they are not daggers... and their skills aren't closer to daggers, if so they would be closer to a debuffer/nuker...
You cannot only play melee or nuker style, you need to combine them. That's about it.
Im pretty sure there still support. and arent looked for in a pve / pvp party.
how the hell is a class with crit damage/chance passives high str and dex and heavy hitting melee skills a support class??
they got 3 buffs thats it. one does dark weapon one does unholy resistance and the other is a kamael only buff that adds 10% pattack and mattack and increases land rate on one skill.
Bladedancer and SWS are support DD's indeed... they buff the entire party constantly to really boost them up. Other than hitting hard and do good damage... I only see Soulbreaker support by annoying the opponent, but that can be for himself too. Don't thing it's enough to consider him only a support char, since when there's lack of the favourite DD's a SB can perfectly fill the spot.
Kamael parties where there are the 3 classes (I haven't partied with an inspector yet) are really lethal. They seem to complement each other and support each other... they can soul cleanse, kamael pride, blood pact and chain their skills to beautifully and perfectly kill their opponents. In this case, SB is support, coz it debuffs, roots, slows, poisons, fears the opponents so party members make a good, fast kill :)
****... didn't want this to happen again... 1) SB are not support... 2) they are not daggers... and their skills aren't closer to daggers, if so they would be closer to a debuffer/nuker...
You cannot only play melee or nuker style, you need to combine them. That's about it.
They are classified as fighters look ingame. their attacks are closet to daggers having high power, critical chance and a chance to miss. their magic is a utitlity, thats like saying SK's are mages cause they have magic.
Well, compared to SKs SB's magic hurts, badly. And with shots and empower/proper mage buffs they hurt like hell.
Hard to categorize, but from a melee standpoint they're closest to daggers yeah.
im going by first description which is fighter cause they start as troopers and either learn stronger magic or ditch it all together and just plain out melee but nontheless both options have melee.
like SK either your a fighter with buffs or a tank with magic but your still melee, its not like wizards have the option to continue in offensive magic or break out swords and start whacking people and spamming attack skills
how the hell is a class with crit damage/chance passives high str and dex and heavy hitting melee skills a support class??
they got 3 buffs thats it. one does dark weapon one does unholy resistance and the other is a kamael only buff that adds 10% pattack and mattack and increases land rate on one skill.
fact that you have a hidden support subclass and that class is the goal of all kamels to get... and its support the kamels other 2 classes just there the titan and a archer does better then both.
@Knight: There is only 1 dagger-like skill out the 3 they have. One is more like Triple Slash (but obviously a hell of a lot worse with no Ignore Shield def), and the last is an absolute beast that has a debuff requirement. Incidentally my highest personal pve crit recorded at lvl 70 A grade=14k+ on Buffalo (not many recorded pvp crits as I rarely get to spam it). I kill too fast now to really test it again effectively at S grade, unless I take on some stupidly hard mobs (which would be stupid ^_^). Normal crits do all the work (-+2k crit damage with 35 str).
With 180+(oe) dark attribute + a Surrender, their damage on spells is fairly potent and very (VERY) hard to resist. Lets say without counting jewels or S80 you have 120 dark resist + 40 from the buff, +20 from the potion (I'm not even sure this works tbh). That's 180 resist. You cancel out the elemental advantage. If surrender lands (non oe) that's -40 attribute right away (removed buff and -20 although you still keep the pot).
Now you have 140 attribute and despite all that effort, they still have +40 attribute advantage (probably +20 with how the system works I dunno).
SB's have low Matk... For a mage. With Emp3 and Pride (no zerk) it sits at around 700+ on a typical, safe OE S grade Rapier. However they also have access to the 2 most powerful magic skills in the game,although non spamable (I know Leopold has fairly high re-use, and Soul Strike is about 40 seconds I think)still they have 5 powerful long-range dark nukes.The last time I mage-crit someone in pvp (not even elemental, lvl70 or so) I hit them for 8k+ damage with CoD 'after' Stealing 7 buffs from them. Virtually 1 hit. The sorriest pally/DA I have ever seen...
Edit: Make that 7 nukes.
They do good damage with both physical and magical attacks.
fact that you have a hidden support subclass and that class is the goal of all kamels to get... and its support the kamels other 2 classes just there the titan and a archer does better then both.
That's some of the best logic I've ever read. No really. Now we all know every class in the game are support since they can all sub at least 1 buffer class also. Glad we cleared that up...
@Knight: There is only 1 dagger-like skill out the 3 they have. One is more like Triple Slash (but obviously a hell of a lot worse with no Ignore Shield def), and the last is an absolute beast that has a debuff requirement. Incidentally my highest personal pve crit recorded at lvl 70 A grade=14k+ on Buffalo (not many recorded pvp crits as I rarely get to spam it). I kill too fast now to really test it again effectively at S grade, unless I take on some stupidly hard mobs (which would be stupid ^_^). Normal crits do all the work (-+2k crit damage with 35 str).
With 180+(oe) dark attribute + a Surrender, their damage on spells is fairly potent and very (VERY) hard to resist. Lets say without counting jewels or S80 you have 120 dark resist + 40 from the buff, +20 from the potion (I'm not even sure this works tbh). That's 180 resist. You cancel out the elemental advantage. If surrender lands (non oe) that's -40 attribute right away (removed buff and -20 although you still keep the pot).
Now you have 140 attribute and despite all that effort, they still have +40 attribute advantage (probably +20 with how the system works I dunno).
SB's have low Matk... For a mage. With Emp3 and Pride (no zerk) it sits at around 700+ on a typical, safe OE S grade Rapier. However they also have access to the 2 most powerful magic skills in the game,although non spamable (I know Leopold has fairly high re-use, and Soul Strike is about 40 seconds I think)still they have 5 powerful long-range dark nukes.The last time I mage-crit someone in pvp (not even elemental, lvl70 or so) I hit them for 8k+ damage with CoD 'after' Stealing 7 buffs from them. Virtually 1 hit. The sorriest pally/DA I have ever seen...
Edit: Make that 7 nukes.
They do good damage with both physical and magical attacks.
That's some of the best logic I've ever read. No really. Now we all know every class in the game are support since they can all sub at least 1 buffer class also. Glad we cleared that up...
Rapier Mastery
Double Thrust
Furious Soul
Increase Power
Rush
Triple Thrust
Critical Sense
Pride of Kamael--Enhance Kamael abilities. Increases P. Atk, M. Atk, and ------------------Mortal Blow chances when a Kamael-only weapon is -------------------used. Usable only on Kamael party members.
Shining Edge
Checkmate
Curse of Life Flow
These skills deal with physical attacks and rapier ability which most conducts in critical attacks, piercing, mortal strikes, etc.
which follows the rapier's traits--low pattk, fast attack speed, low accuracy, high critical rate, high critical power
which is same as dagger
Im pretty sure there still support. and arent looked for in a pve / pvp party.
I bring soul breakers, sometimes, into high level mage parties. They do fine by switching the rapier for a weapon with higher m.atk. Even with a common SoM it's good enough.
Well i love my Soul breaker and it rocks i am only 56 lvl now but i owned a paladin lvl 64 in a grade lol , death mark+checkmate and 4k damage on him lol
Rapier Mastery
Double Thrust
Furious Soul
Increase Power
Rush
Triple Thrust
Critical Sense
Pride of Kamael--Enhance Kamael abilities. Increases P. Atk, M. Atk, and ------------------Mortal Blow chances when a Kamael-only weapon is -------------------used. Usable only on Kamael party members.
Shining Edge
Checkmate
Curse of Life Flow
These skills deal with physical attacks and rapier ability which most conducts in critical attacks, piercing, mortal strikes, etc.
which follows the rapier's traits--low pattk, fast attack speed, low accuracy, high critical rate, high critical power
which is same as dagger
Pride's 'Mortal Blow' clause only affects one skill: Shining Edge, the only skill that can miss if it's not a critical attack. (I but hey it might affect Checkmate at a stretch).
... their attacks are closet to daggers having high power, critical chance and a chance to miss.
This is what I was referring to when I wrote that there is only 1 dagger like skill. The whole popular idea that a SB = dagger-like thing is a bit misleading, while understandable (a Dwarf isn't really anything like a Destro for a bad example).
Coming back to Pride, I'd love it to increase crit rate or something also but unless it's a hidden stat, it doesn't work that way (besides it already says 'mortal blow' which we know belong to certain types of skills).
I believe it's main purpose is to fill the stat-gap problem caused by being a hybrid class. The Mortal Blow chance thing seems like more of an apology for Shining Edge not being anything like a true dagger stab skill (none of the perks, but all the downsides). Case in point, the Korean patch notes for CT3 included 'increased success rate of stabs'. No mention of Shining Edge in the skills listed.
It's a bit of an enigma tbh. High Str is a rec for any class that wants to skill-crit with high success but this flies in the face of most non-suicidal SB play-styles. Another reason for Pride? Perhaps...
Incidentally Curse of Life Flow works on all damage types, it's just harder to continually do damage with spells.
About SBs:
Actually they are good damage dealers, and in pvp can dish out some neat damage if they don't die too fast.. ...
I'd have them in any melee party any day, great DDs.
If you add them to dagger class add necro to summoner class list its simple.
Necros are in the nuker palce because they are nukers before summoners because they...nuke and drain and CDL and stuff...., they rely on nuking over summons
Daggers are in the damage dealers class, so, by simple logic, a DD must deal the max damage he can do, so in this case of course would be AW, the strongest (and coolest imo) dagger of L2 :).
AW and TH goes hand in hand in the vote. but the regular stats AW only have +1 str higher than TH. how come so many people say AW does higher damage from skills?
Which dagger classes is best for pvp at high end and pve?
i know there is a vote result, but i doubt about the expertise and level experiences the voters have.
I'd wager it has something to do with the fact that AW get both Focus Power and Focus Death. TH is certainly gifted (more so in fact) than the other 2 in terms of stats, but making people die is all about those skills.
I'm also very interested in hearing peoples opinions on who has the upper hand in end game pvp TH or AW they both seem good.TH has better stats and more con and more carrying capacity but AW has more killing power so it kind of seems like you choose if you want people to drop dead faster but have higher risk of being stun pwned or play it safe with TH with less chance of being stun pwned but make people die slower.Thats just my current understanding of that but im just 2 months old in lineage so don't rely on the accuracy of this post much.
the CP and elixir and other pots in this game make all classes with low CON survive long. but damage cannot be improve by others items beside buffs. I think i will go with AW sub. high dex for more escaping tactics and other pro.
the CP and elixir and other pots in this game make all classes with low CON survive long. but damage cannot be improve by others items beside buffs. I think i will go with AW sub. high dex for more escaping tactics and other pro.
And TH-s higher carry capacity gives him more pots over AW wich makes him able to outlast the AW in poting.
... and I say again, gluck potting lethals. The effect Focus Death has on stab rates means you will increase the frequency of lethals a butt-load, and Focus Power just makes everything hurt more. Nothing to do with 1 on 1 duels...
Both TH and AW have Focus Power, sure AW has Focus Death too and will mostly beat the TH 1 on 1 that point is totaly correct but I say it again that doesn't mean that AW is better agains all other classes than the TH.Or I'm missing something.
My point is a dead target can't hurt you that much. A significant increase in stab/lethal lethal/success makes things dead more ^_^. I am not talking about duels at all. Any dagger that gets too much attention in mass pvp is likely to die regardless.
TH have crappier human mdef for example. While AW have under 1k less base hp+cp. If the TH pushes it's stats around to get to the AW's STR and DEX there is almost no difference in base hp/cp (although the th still has much more actual con). Essentially they are very much in the same boat in terms of survivability.
Killing is a daggers best defense. Anything that helps them achieve this is more effieciently is good stuff.
If you want to talk about dagger 1v1, before 79 TH is probably stronger. After 79, it's kinda' up in the air. Assuming the gear/level/skill oe's are similiar. (In this fight I'd sooner have Counter Attack than Mirage any day of the week :P).
From my expirience (which is little because im new to the game) as a Berserker i eat AWs like cereal they are so easy to stun its not eaven funny opening blow is stun and by the time they are unstuned they are dead.On the other hand against a TH i don't succed on the stun so much which results in a harder fight and sometimes my death just because that stun failed so that extra con saves the TH most times from dieing before eaven hitting me.
(Both me and the enemys were A grade with mostly just 1 lvl difference usualy in their favour)
AW does the most straight damage with it's superior Strength (1 more than TH) but, the TH has the most melee dps owing to it's faster attack speed.
TH is the best choice in pvp, It has much more Con, HP/CP than any other Dagger.
In the end it comes down to the player and how you employ the character.
how do you kill a pro targeter with dagger class where you need to attack from behind? which attack have good success hit from the front?
Only Backstab requires you to be behind.
i heard TH miss alot with skills and AW is opposite. if you want to pve go TH and pvp go AW...
Nope,
http://www.lineage2.com/images/skill_icons/skill0409.jpg(lvl55-74) Critical Blow -With an increased chance of success, you attempt an extremely deadly attack on your foes. Lethal Strike is possible. Over-hit is possible. Requires a dagger. Power 3653. Effect 5
http://www.lineage2.com/images/skill_icons/skill0356.jpg(Lvl78) Focus Chance -Increases the critical rate and success rate of all Mortal Blow type skills. Effectiveness is dependent upon the direction of attack. Requires a dagger.
Also symbol of Assassin but meh, thats not self reliance
Dagger mastery increases land rate of mortal blow type skills and greatly decreases mp consumption for skills (lasts 5 seconds, actives on chance by criticals)
In Gracia final
All Lethal attacks switched to Half kills. All mortal blow type attacks have increased land rate.