Over the past few years i've watched the attitude of players dwindle into a sallow pit of ignorance and narrow-mindedness.
For years people have been crying for change and due to the lack of input and support provided by NCsoft NA the once enlightened L2 community has receeded into a whirlwind of wallowing in their own self pitty. "Tell me something i don't know" i hear you ask... well then why not do something about it?
Im posting because over the past few days in all the threads i have read, the same answers to problems keeps cropping up... "deal with it" or "remove it from the game"... seriously people is this the attitude one should have for a paid service?
Im growing tired of all the elitists in this game who refuse to accept any change for the better and/or have grown to accept change will never happen... and you all know who you are. The type who seem to think there is only one difinitive way to play/equip a character or class, and those who are so wrapped up in their own selfishness they forget about other players in the community.
"you must wear X armor and you have to use X weapon..." etc.
As it stands we are just brainless flocks of sheep hopping over the same fence. Let's all look the same, act the same, kill the same etc etc.
How do you expect things to change when you just roll over and accept it like a pathetic dog.
The problem lies with you... you and your elitist attitude:
I'm end-game and super-high level so who cares about lowbies?
I have been playing for years so who cares about new (or potential) players?
I use all the best and OP gear so who cares about all the crap that's gimped?
Its always been that way why should it change now?
You are the ones that are making this game die a slow, grim and painful death... You are the reason that things aren't changing for the better. We are paying for a service and (although nothing is flawless) should expect nothing short of perfection. As im sure you are all aware there is even content in the game that is locked away from us... why? If you want change you must demand it, and do so in unity.
i have to agree with you and i like to add i am really anoyed when i see ppl writing "previus chronicle was better"!!!!! i know they dont mean it but they just wanna pretend the elite player that knows the games mechink better that the developers ...that he acctually discovered that previus chronicle was better!!!
Agree with you totally. Also I've made some suggestions that would make some useless things more usefull but atitude ''deal with it'' ''don't waste your SP'' is strong in this community. I get the impresion that community wants to leave things as they're now and are afraid of making smth.
I'm end-game and super-high level so who cares about lowbies?
I have been playing for years so who cares about new (or potential) players?
I use all the best and OP gear so who cares about all the crap that's gimped?
Its always been that way why should it change now?
I'm end-game and super-high level so who cares about lowbies?
I have been playing for years so who cares about new (or potential) players?
I use all the best and OP gear so who cares about all the crap that's gimped?
Its always been that way why should it change now?
You are the ones that are making this game die a slow, grim and painful death... You are the reason that things aren't changing for the better. We are paying for a service and (although nothing is flawless) should expect nothing short of perfection. As im sure you are all aware there is even content in the game that is locked away from us... why? If you want change you must demand it, and do so in unity.
Don't accept it as inevitability.
/QQmode off
NCsoft should be ashamed of themselves.
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Eggy ^_^I'll start out by addressing the end of your post.
None of us (I'm definitely part of this crowd) are making the game die, we realize nothing is gonna change FOR us, it will change for the Koreans, there is no point at all suggesting stuff here, cause it just wont happen (regardless of what lies you're told by community managers), any idea that has any value has been suggested in Korea, guaranteed.
I hate to say this, but anybody who believes the above is not true is wrong, The nature of how it works makes it impossible for us to supply any kind of feedback to the actual devs, when we get "new" content, it has already been out for several months in Korea, and they'll be working on the next thing (and probably be nearly done with it) They are too late in the development process to add in stupid little changes that come from here. From the moment something is suggested here til it can possibly come to our servers is going to be somewhere between 10-15 months, at which time out suggestions would quite simply be outdated.
I expect things to change, definitely, but I am not under the illusion that they will change because we want them to. This game is made by and for Korean people.
Secondly, some combination of dyes, armor, weapons, SA's, classes etc. just ARE better, and there are a lot of stupid people around who will tell you a NM robe set is a good set, or going +5MEN -5WIT with a Conversion weapon on a prophet is good because you can regen enough mana to buff a 9-man group. Things like that are just stupid. And if you don't let people know that it is, they will keep thinking its good.
Secondly, some combination of dyes, armor, weapons, SA's, classes etc. just ARE better, and there are a lot of stupid people around who will tell you a NM robe set is a good set, or going +5MEN -5WIT with a Conversion weapon on a prophet is good because you can regen enough mana to buff a 9-man group. Things like that are just stupid. And if you don't let people know that it is, they will keep thinking its good.
some ppl like the nm robe because of the matk
some ppl don't care if it takes 5min to buff a party if they got enough mp to buff them all
some ppl like the maj robe set for healers
some ppl like the dc robe set for healers/nukers
everyone has theyr own play style and it isn't 100% sure that your setup suits theyr play style.
and if everyone has to use the same setup on armor, dyes, weapons and jewels as everyone else on the server then what is the point of having different armor sets at the different grades? why don't they just have 1 armor set for all the grades like in S grade or S80 or S82 or S84?
why did they add dyes to the game if everyone has to run with the same dyes?
why do you have so many weapons and weapon types to choose from if you have to use the same as all the others?
why do they have so many different SA's if you have to use the same as all the others not to be called a n00b?
I agree with Eggy +1 , things should change but yeah alot of ppl have different taste and gamestyle.
And sometimes it makes me sad. I remember when i was kamael and ppl mocked because of it like they suck , they are bad at pvp and so on .
If i have believed them i wouldnt be a kamael this days.
So alot of ppl quit kamael then and move to archer/nuker , which is best for pvp
Some armors, SA's, weapons etc have been tested by trial and error way in the past. That is why there are "standard" setups after the game has been around for almost 5 years.
Some armors, SA's, weapons etc have been tested by trial and error way in the past. That is why there are "standard" setups after the game has been around for almost 5 years.
It has nothing to do with an elitist mentality.
they have been tested for PvP...the setup is different if you are only PvEing.
There is nothing in game the forbids you from using whatever armor wep/sa you want. How ever if you want to compete in pvp you will have to use the same setup as everyone else. That is not elitist it is just the way the game was designed. Unfortunatly everything is so expensive that most people just go with the prefered setup so they can compete. If you have the adena there are setups that are better for pve.
What is really sad is people who play this game for months or even years and continue to complain about stuff that has been the same since they started this game. There is nothing wrong with suggesting changes to the game just don't expect to see any done about it.
I'm end-game and super-high level so who cares about lowbies.
I have been playing for years so who cares about new (or potential) players.
I use all the best and OP gear so who cares about all the crap that's gimped.
Its always been that way why should it change now.
Yet I agree with lot of the things. Top players usualy feel like they are more than others. I usualy try to be nice to everyone, but the same way you ask "elitists" for tolerance you should tolerate "elitists".
I'm end-game and super-high level so who cares about lowbies.
I have been playing for years so who cares about new (or potential) players.
I use all the best and OP gear so who cares about all the crap that's gimped.
Its always been that way why should it change now.
Yet I agree with lot of the things. Top players usualy feel like they are more than others. I usualy try to be nice to everyone, but the same way you ask "elitists" for tolerance you should tolerate "elitists".
Yeah well, you worked hard and much longer than me so ;) Hope one time i can hit S80 too..I think its not hard..it will depend on which clan i am i think. Anyways, i have nothing against LEGIT high lvl players in top gear. They worked hard for it so be it. Maybe i will pvp when i hit high lvls :P :)
I wear NM robes because of the look. The stats aren't that bad (of course, DC would be better), but I am a fashion girl. If it looks ugly, it can have GODLY stats and I won't wear it. Not that DC looks ugly, but NM is the best looking robe set IN GAME.
That said... I agree with the OP up to a certain point. Elitist do ruin the game and not only, they chase newbies away, then complain that the game has nobody new and ask for merges, instead of helping the newbies through their levels so THEY can get to end-game as well.
The main problem though lies in the fact that unfortunately, most of the things we'd like to see implemented will not be implemented, simply because I do not believe that NCWest has much of a say in it. I believe in Korea, they're happy with the way the game's being developed, or at least I think they might be.
But here, it's a whole different market and some things should have been suited for us (like the Pathwork Finder guy, how HARD would it be to just open it to anyone that wanted a solo dungeon? Instead of leaving the guy there babbling to himself like he's a lunatic?). I don't think NCWest has the power to implement some things though.
I agree with you valy, but sincerly..we can talk about it and dream for better days that NCSoft reads this posts...but that will never happen. I mean, if until now they dont change it a bit to satisfy players, i dont think they are going to do it now :S Looks like they want all of us as soon as possible ultra high lvl since they made vit bar and 2 vit events coming. Sounds a bit odd but reality.
Yet I agree with lot of the things. Top players usualy feel like they are more than others. I usualy try to be nice to everyone, but the same way you ask "elitists" for tolerance you should tolerate "elitists".
I'm not asking for tolerance... in fact, im not asking for anything at all ^_^
It was just an observational post illustrating the sombre attitude people have towards this game, it's a sad state of affairs when people just accept things because they feel they have to... and as surprising as this may sound, it is the elitists that hold the most influence within this game and whether they believe it or not, they could make quite a difference.
So this was never a b*tch post at elitists, merely an opportunity for them to self-assess their attitude towards the game... even if they never decide to change.
I think the single most important thing to remember when playing MMOs.
There is absolutely nothing someone can tell me, that's going to stop me from having fun. I usually pick the "wierd" choice, try and play my class differently or try to make it do something you wouldn't expect. But most of all, I do my best to have a good time everytime I log in. And there isn't a **** thing anyone can tell me about how I play that's going to make less fun.
But then again, I am too old to care about online competition... especially in Lineage II, a game with such poor track record when it comes to cracking down on exploits. To compete in lineage is like playing Counter Strike on a server with no security enabled.
So, at the end of the day. Just have fun with it. Do what you feels suits YOU and not what suit "THEM".
Sounds a bit odd but reality slaps you in the face for real. :P
LOL yeah ^^,
Well maybe they want everybody high lvl enough to join the new gracia continent and content for 70+ players. Thats why all those vit lvl events.
Also i think there aint gonna be much new low or mid lvl content since you aare lvling to fast and its not worth introducing new content for those bases i think. Thats why they concentrate on the high and end lvl content which will be used by most players and much longer time rather the low or mid lvl content.
Well maybe they want everybody high lvl enough to join the new gracia continent and content for 70+ players. Thats why all those vit lvl events.
Also i think there aint gonna be much new low or mid lvl content since you aare lvling to fast and its not worth introducing new content for those bases i think. Thats why they concentrate on the high and end lvl content which will be used by most players and much longer time rather the low or mid lvl content.
Just remember that if players gain levels too fast they will be unable to earn the adena for equipment. Alot will then ebay Adena which helps the farmer bots and inturn this keeps NC Softs best customers happy.
Just think... how can farmers benefit from this event...normally thats whats behind what NC does.
Look at Aion NC's new game...they have bots beside where each mob spawns. It was shown on a morg site. NC is making a real name for itself in the market.
Just remember that if players gain levels too fast they will be unable to earn the adena for equipment. Alot will then ebay Adena which helps the farmer bots and inturn this keeps NC Softs best customers happy.
Just think... how can farmers benefit from this event...normally thats whats behind what NC does.
Look at Aion NC's new game...they have bots beside where each mob spawns. It was shown on a morg site. NC is making a real name for itself in the market.
Secondly, some combination of dyes, armor, weapons, SA's, classes etc. just ARE better, and there are a lot of stupid people around who will tell you a NM robe set is a good set, or going +5MEN -5WIT with a Conversion weapon on a prophet is good because you can regen enough mana to buff a 9-man group. Things like that are just stupid. And if you don't let people know that it is, they will keep thinking its good.
some ppl like the nm robe because of the matk
some ppl don't care if it takes 5min to buff a party if they got enough mp to buff them all
some ppl like the maj robe set for healers
some ppl like the dc robe set for healers/nukers
everyone has theyr own play style and it isn't 100% sure that your setup suits theyr play style.
and if everyone has to use the same setup on armor, dyes, weapons and jewels as everyone else on the server then what is the point of having different armor sets at the different grades? why don't they just have 1 armor set for all the grades like in S grade or S80 or S82 or S84?
why did they add dyes to the game if everyone has to run with the same dyes?
why do you have so many weapons and weapon types to choose from if you have to use the same as all the others?
why do they have so many different SA's if you have to use the same as all the others not to be called a n00b?
+1 to the OP
You misunderstood what I posted.
I don't care if you use bad armor sets, SA's or dye combinations. You're free to do so, but if someone asks you and me about what the best gear/dye option for a prophet is, and you say it's a NM robe set, -5WIT+5MEN with a conversion weapon I'm goign to say you're wrong. not because that is not an option, it is, but it's a terrible one.
what's "best" does not depend on playstyle any further than the PVE/PVP split, some things are better for pvp, some things are better for pve, some things are bad no matter the scenario.
agrre with sneeze
the fact is certain options are best with certain classes and i wouldn't call it elitist telling a +con, blunt useing PVE dorf he made a bad choice
and as far as faster xp meaning less adena you always have the option of using the extra time you have grinding adena
if NC changed all servers to be 10x xp and it used to take 10 days to get to 78 then you just gained yourself 9 extra days of adena grinding you wouldn't of had before
Just remember that if players gain levels too fast they will be unable to earn the adena for equipment. Alot will then ebay Adena which helps the farmer bots and inturn this keeps NC Softs best customers happy.
Just think... how can farmers benefit from this event...normally thats whats behind what NC does.
Look at Aion NC's new game...they have bots beside where each mob spawns. It was shown on a morg site. NC is making a real name for itself in the market.
No offense guy but virtually every post you make seems to be centered around bots. I understand they are frustrating; however, if you are that upset by it then perhaps you should take a break or find another game.
Do I think they could do more? Yea I do. Do I think there is some deep conspiracy between NCSoft and the bots? Probably not. Either way though, if it has reached the point where you start to see conspiracy in everything here then this has become something other than recreation, and you really ought to consider a change. Just my two cents, take it or leave it.
agrre with sneeze
the fact is certain options are best with certain classes and i wouldn't call it elitist telling a +con, blunt useing PVE dorf he made a bad choice
and as far as faster xp meaning less adena you always have the option of using the extra time you have grinding adena
if NC changed all servers to be 10x xp and it used to take 10 days to get to 78 then you just gained yourself 9 extra days of adena grinding you wouldn't of had before
To a certain extent I can agree with that, yet at some point the adena/mats becomes an issue. Eventually you need to upgrade gear in order to level efficiently, and if the mobs that you can handle with the gear you have are all dark blue then you find yourself with an issue. Of course there are probably ways of mitigating this, like dragging some xp leeching pet around. I like the vitality and am not complaining, but I could see how a corresponding adena bonus proportionate to one's vitality lvl would be useful. Although you're also using less shots if you level with vitality so perhaps it works itself out in the long run.
You misunderstood what I posted.
I don't care if you use bad armor sets, SA's or dye combinations. You're free to do so, but if someone asks you and me about what the best gear/dye option for a prophet is, and you say it's a NM robe set, -5WIT+5MEN with a conversion weapon I'm goign to say you're wrong. not because that is not an option, it is, but it's a terrible one.
what's "best" does not depend on playstyle any further than the PVE/PVP split, some things are better for pvp, some things are better for pve, some things are bad no matter the scenario.
Well, yes... if anyone asks me what's best, I will tell them what's best. But then I will also say, for example, that "Although a Tallum Light set is the worst A grade light set, it looks AMAZING on Kamaels and that's why I chose it".
I usually try to give people the options I would choose, be that the "best" or the "most awesome looking one". Cause there might be people out there that won't wear an ugly armor even if it's the best choice heh... I know I am one of them.
Well, yes... if anyone asks me what's best, I will tell them what's best. But then I will also say, for example, that "Although a Tallum Light set is the worst A grade light set, it looks AMAZING on Kamaels and that's why I chose it".
I usually try to give people the options I would choose, be that the "best" or the "most awesome looking one". Cause there might be people out there that won't wear an ugly armor even if it's the best choice heh... I know I am one of them.
not to mention that the mp regen in tallum light is very good if you are a light armor user that needs lots of mp
But then again, I am too old to care about online competition... especially in Lineage II, a game with such poor track record when it comes to cracking down on exploits. To compete in lineage is like playing Counter Strike on a server with no security enabled.
It is true, us more competitive and PvP orientated do just have to learn to accept the facts that the immorality is here in game because of how the real world is. Especially the bot issue, of course NC want's to seem to be playing both sides of the fence. When half the $15 a month comes from bots alone, are they going to "fix" their wagon?
The only thing I wanted to add was that there are not just elitists in the game. I know there is a clan/alliance on your server who genuinely is there for fun, full of hard working/playing people with children sometimes. The only space between the genuine noob who wants to join a group like that and the group is the communication.
It's hard to have a noob that jumps on the forum right away to find a clan that's perfect for them, or has the time of their lives with an academy where all the regular players are 75+.
I don't have a suggestion for this, it's just how the game is played. It's like you have to have a thicker skin to play L2... than say a Wow-like, hold your hand and burp you carebear-a-thon.
It's not an elitiest mentality. When people ask questions, or make suggestions on these boards, you will have people tell you good and bad things on ideas. Some of them are just *****, and most of them have merit, but either way they have every right to say what they want, and frankly if you don't agree then don't The majority of people who post on these forums do offer good advice that will help people, and prepare people, some others just like to brag, and a few are utterly clueless.
Because someone offers advice, and tells you something is not worth using because of Xyz, and you disagree with them, that's all fine. Although when people say your not making a wise choice because that other persons suggestion is something that is your best course of action, then expect for them to question you.
People use to love getting criticised, critiqued and corrected in the past, it is what made the player base stronger and better and people had thicker skin... Now people get upset, and all bent out of shape when someone tells them they are doing something wrong?
Over the past few years i've watched the attitude of players dwindle into a sallow pit of ignorance and narrow-mindedness.
For years people have been crying for change and due to the lack of input and support provided by NCsoft NA the once enlightened L2 community has receeded into a whirlwind of wallowing in their own self pitty. "Tell me something i don't know" i hear you ask... well then why not do something about it?
Im posting because over the past few days in all the threads i have read, the same answers to problems keeps cropping up... "deal with it" or "remove it from the game"... seriously people is this the attitude one should have for a paid service?
Im growing tired of all the elitists in this game who refuse to accept any change for the better and/or have grown to accept change will never happen... and you all know who you are. The type who seem to think there is only one difinitive way to play/equip a character or class, and those who are so wrapped up in their own selfishness they forget about other players in the community.
"you must wear X armor and you have to use X weapon..." etc.
As it stands we are just brainless flocks of sheep hopping over the same fence. Let's all look the same, act the same, kill the same etc etc.
How do you expect things to change when you just roll over and accept it like a pathetic dog.
The problem lies with you... you and your elitist attitude:
I'm end-game and super-high level so who cares about lowbies?
I have been playing for years so who cares about new (or potential) players?
I use all the best and OP gear so who cares about all the crap that's gimped?
Its always been that way why should it change now?
You are the ones that are making this game die a slow, grim and painful death... You are the reason that things aren't changing for the better. We are paying for a service and (although nothing is flawless) should expect nothing short of perfection. As im sure you are all aware there is even content in the game that is locked away from us... why? If you want change you must demand it, and do so in unity.
Don't accept it as inevitability.
/QQmode off
NCsoft should be ashamed of themselves.
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Eggy ^_^
Not that my opinion matters really but this one needs a few bumps and +1 for being honest. And mail me in game and will party with you anytime without QQ'ing.
my point of view is that this is clearly a cookie-cutter game. this game allows you to get all of the skills a class has to offer and not limit you within the class like diablo and other games do where you have to pick and choose from one or more skill trees.
in the end, it all comes down to understanding the game mechanics, pure skill in regards to acting in accordance to said mechanics, or the alternative of spending a year's salary on your toon.
Because someone offers advice, and tells you something is not worth using because of Xyz, and you disagree with them, that's all fine. Although when people say your not making a wise choice because that other persons suggestion is something that is your best course of action, then expect for them to question you.
My point seems to have been misconstrued along the way... The issue in regards to my original post is not towards elitists for being elitist. Im sure anyone with a shred of common sense knows which gear is better suited for their character than others.
The fundamentals of my OP lies with an elitist attitude towards changing that which is useless, gimped or no longer has use within the game due to other overpowered and/or more comprehensive Classes/Set Bonuses/SA's etc. etc.
Here's just one example... and a classic one at that:
The multiple threads aimed at killing Prophets... because they have minimal use in end-game parties (mainly due to the fact WC do pretty much the same job but faster) and are only good as boxed buff pets. Why remove them? Why not make them more useful...
The elitist answer to anything that isn't universally used and/or acclaimed is to remove it from the game.
The multiple threads aimed at killing Prophets... because they have minimal use in end-game parties (mainly due to the fact WC do pretty much the same job but faster) and are only good as boxed buff pets. Why remove them? Why not make them more useful...
The elitist answer to anything that isn't universally used and/or acclaimed is to remove it from the game.
When their demand should be to fix it.
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Eggy ^_^
Yea, but its only that NC hasn't decided on what to do with certain classes to balance them out yet.... and we all know they could take years to. Making the prophet balanced to WC when they've added so much to one class makes deciding what to add to the former a pains taking process. They should have balanced WC and PP way before they added things, but now its a GLARING responsibility they won't even comment on.
I agree with you 100%, but it take so much time once they nerf a toon to balance them out again it leads to frustration as to why the class was picked to begin with.
Some armors, SA's, weapons etc have been tested by trial and error way in the past. That is why there are "standard" setups after the game has been around for almost 5 years.
It has nothing to do with an elitist mentality.
That's assuming everyone at end game wants the same things from their equipment. If you want to be "the best" healer or fighter or whatever the case may be, than you will tend toward the mainstream choices and reap the benefits and consequnces of doing so.
But not everyone plays to be competative. The biggest misconception I hear (and have heard for years) about this game, is that it is a "PVP Game". Its just plain wrong. It is an MMO like every other MMO, and just has a different (and IMO better) PvP system. I myself, and my entire clan of over 130 people, almost unilatteraly agree that the game is more about being part of th community and enjoying it, than being the latest uber leet pvp ****. And we often make choices in armor/weapon settup that we prefer visually, regardless of how they affect our stats. (becouse tats always compensate anyway).
I could list a dozen or more reasons why this is the case, but ultimately I just wanted to say +1 to the OP. And don't let the fact other people's playstyle is an abortion of the game's intended design ruin your fun ^^
That's assuming everyone at end game wants the same things from their equipment. If you want to be "the best" healer or fighter or whatever the case may be, than you will tend toward the mainstream choices and reap the benefits and consequnces of doing so.
But not everyone plays to be competative. The biggest misconception I hear (and have heard for years) about this game, is that it is a "PVP Game". Its just plain wrong. It is an MMO like every other MMO, and just has a different (and IMO better) PvP system. I myself, and my entire clan of over 130 people, almost unilatteraly agree that the game is more about being part of th community and enjoying it, than being the latest uber leet pvp ****. And we often make choices in armor/weapon settup that we prefer visually, regardless of how they affect our stats. (becouse tats always compensate anyway).
I could list a dozen or more reasons why this is the case, but ultimately I just wanted to say +1 to the OP. And don't let the fact other people's playstyle is an abortion of the game's intended design ruin your fun ^^
pvp influences every last aspect of this game and it was designed to be so.
even the community itself hass only evolved thusly based on who is the top-dog in pvp.
they have been tested for PvP...the setup is different if you are only PvEing.
Not really say for example
a sword of Miracles
you have 3 SA options
Magic Power-15% mp consumption increase for 167 mattk
Magic Silence-10% chance to cast silence apon using bad magic
Acumen-15% cast speed
Now Lets see why there is really only 1 SA option
Magic power..you have 15% mp consumption increase for a little more mattk...which means you hit a little harder and run out of mp very quickly...not good
Magic silence....you have a 10% chance to land a debuff that has a chance after that too land...and after using nukes which chances are the target would be dead before it casted and there's always that chance to fail anyway
Acumen--you cast faster which means you have higher dps, you land stuff faster, you reuse faster(gone in gracia final) and
you kill the guy who went with magic power cause you cast much faster than him, cancelling him, or worse preventing him from even casting (sleep,silence,anchor,fear,cancels) or just messes him up quickly (vortexs,surrenders, cancel, other debuffs) or worse kill him flawless cause he got cancelled so many times casting so slow with that reuse.
you kill the guy with magic silence cause you cancel his casts with your much faster casts and even if he does get to casts, chances are that silence wont land due to not casting or resistance
There are a number of points in your OP, Eggy. A couple I agree with.
But let's go back a bit.
A population gives rise to a culture. It doesn't happen the other way around. Too, a true culture does not set from one or two individuals--it is dynamic and REFLECTS the population as a whole.
"Elitism" to use your term (though I'm not sure I agree it is the proper one for what you're trying to get at) is a "L2 game environment CONSTRUCT". It wasn't programmed by NCSoft, it wasn't purchased on Ebay. It DEVELOPED from significant portions of the player's typical behaviors.
It's endemic. Unfortunately for the sake of your argument, I see it as a reflection of a substantial portion of the playing population--not a symptom of a problem. Cultural norms certainly CAN be symptoms of serious problems! But I don't believe they are in this case.
L2 is ONLY a competitive platform. It is anonymous. It is dynamic (fluid). It is "player controlled". It is a virtual world of fantasy. So it WILL have a set of cultural norms--but interpreting them as we would interpret real life cultural reflections would be a mistake, I think. Because L2 is about as far from real life as it is possible to travel!
A bunch of players (initially small) use the first interactions to have fun and triumph. There are pretend winners and losers. The winners crow and chortle. L337-punks are born. And here's the ugly part--precisely because it is NOT real life (where social constructs devalue and punish punkishness), leet-bahavior flourishes and gets rewarded!!!
I don't think it's any more subtle than that.
A pretend world in a game that doesn't matter where the adult can be a child and the childish can be kings (for an hour or so)--but only pretend. Into this then comes the gulf of roles--someone needs/wants to be keeper of the knowledge! Someone needs/wants/is forced to be a bootlicker. Some few get to be king.
*Poof* (que the fireworks)---your 'elitism' is born. After all, it's good to be king.
The culture celebrates and sustains it. Over time it is often reinforced.
Are they "the" problem? No. I don't believe so.
At the end of the day you're actually just saying "I have a happy, optimistic hope for a bright future and anyone who disagrees or doesn't echo that sentiment deserves a tag or name with a negative connotation". You call them "elites".
Magic Power-15% mp consumption increase for 167 mattk
Magic Silence-10% chance to cast silence apon using bad magic
Acumen-15% cast speed
Now Lets see why there is really only 1 SA option
Magic power..you have 15% mp consumption increase for a little more mattk...which means you hit a little harder and run out of mp very quickly...not good
Magic silence....you have a 10% chance to land a debuff that has a chance after that too land...and after using nukes which chances are the target would be dead before it casted and there's always that chance to fail anyway
Acumen--you cast faster which means you have higher dps, you land stuff faster, you reuse faster(gone in gracia final) and
you kill the guy who went with magic power cause you cast much faster than him, cancelling him, or worse preventing him from even casting (sleep,silence,anchor,fear,cancels) or just messes him up quickly (vortexs,surrenders, cancel, other debuffs) or worse kill him flawless cause he got cancelled so many times casting so slow with that reuse.
you kill the guy with magic silence cause you cancel his casts with your much faster casts and even if he does get to casts, chances are that silence wont land due to not casting or resistance
Acumen is the only way
same with many other weapons
Magic Power is also a way to go if it allows you to do enough damage to one shoot the mobs when you maybe need to shoot 2 times with an acumen weapon and as a result make you save both mana and shots/bones
So people are going to have 2 Magic Weapons now? You save money on shots, bones and MP, but you get a second weapon for those mobs that need just that extra little M.Attack to kill them... So in the end, are you REALLY saving money? No. Your also surely not going to keep a Non-Acumen weapon as your primary weapon either. So in the end, where is the purpose of that +M. Power weapon?
So in the end, that's not people with an Elitest Mentality, that's just people providing Logical, and useful feedback and criticism.
Magic Power is also a way to go if it allows you to do enough damage to one shoot the mobs when you maybe need to shoot 2 times with an acumen weapon and as a result make you save both mana and shots/bones
The phenomenon you speak of would have to apply to just about every spot you will ever go to, if you are to opt for that SA on an A or S grade weapon....
So people are going to have 2 Magic Weapons now? You save money on shots, bones and MP, but you get a second weapon for those mobs that need just that extra little M.Attack to kill them... So in the end, are you REALLY saving money? No. Your also surely not going to keep a Non-Acumen weapon as your primary weapon either. So in the end, where is the purpose of that +M. Power weapon?
So in the end, that's not people with an Elitest Mentality, that's just people providing Logical, and useful feedback and criticism.
I used Magic Power weapon on my SH alt from lvl 40 to mid 55 without any problem...heck I even used a C grade magic power weapon on the 73-77 Pailaka on my then lvl 73 SE and I could kill all the mobs to the dragon + dragon in less than 20min.
So saying it's completly useless is kinda wrong in my opinion.
Sure casting speed pays a major role in PvP, but in PvE if you have acumen3 and concentration dance you don't realy need an acumen weapon.
I used Magic Power weapon on my SH alt from lvl 40 to mid 55 without any problem...heck I even used a C grade magic power weapon on the 73-77 Pailaka on my then lvl 73 SE and I could kill all the mobs to the dragon + dragon in less than 20min.
So saying it's completly useless is kinda wrong in my opinion.
Sure casting speed pays a major role in PvP, but in PvE if you have acumen3 and concentration dance you don't realy need an acumen weapon.
Well now when your higher level and you nuke and the mob has like another nuke's worth of hp left, or if your fighting social mobs where your gonna need the cast speed to down them before they down you (which is why i didn't like the gk transform...too slow and lesser power)
Well now when your higher level and you nuke and the mob has like another nuke's worth of hp left, or if your fighting social mobs where your gonna need the cast speed to down them before they down you (which is why i didn't like the gk transform...too slow and lesser power)
the GK allows me to clean toi10 so I don't see anything wrong with it
I used Magic Power weapon on my SH alt from lvl 40 to mid 55 without any problem...heck I even used a C grade magic power weapon on the 73-77 Pailaka on my then lvl 73 SE and I could kill all the mobs to the dragon + dragon in less than 20min.
So saying it's completly useless is kinda wrong in my opinion.
Sure casting speed pays a major role in PvP, but in PvE if you have acumen3 and concentration dance you don't realy need an acumen weapon.
I just have a hard time to justify that, especially with you being an SH. I mean, Acumen would make you Body to Mind faster, and much more. That's your best way to keep up Mana, not just a measly few extra M.Attack that is basically irrelvant on a Mage. Magic Power is good for classes such an SK, where the extra M.Attack prviedes a significant % increase from a Magic Power SA, opposed to a mage which gains like what, 2-3% from an SA like that?
Magic Power-15% mp consumption increase for 167 mattk
Magic Silence-10% chance to cast silence apon using bad magic
Acumen-15% cast speed
Now Lets see why there is really only 1 SA option
Magic power..you have 15% mp consumption increase for a little more mattk...which means you hit a little harder and run out of mp very quickly...not good
Magic silence....you have a 10% chance to land a debuff that has a chance after that too land...and after using nukes which chances are the target would be dead before it casted and there's always that chance to fail anyway
Acumen--you cast faster which means you have higher dps, you land stuff faster, you reuse faster(gone in gracia final) and
you kill the guy who went with magic power cause you cast much faster than him, cancelling him, or worse preventing him from even casting (sleep,silence,anchor,fear,cancels) or just messes him up quickly (vortexs,surrenders, cancel, other debuffs) or worse kill him flawless cause he got cancelled so many times casting so slow with that reuse.
you kill the guy with magic silence cause you cancel his casts with your much faster casts and even if he does get to casts, chances are that silence wont land due to not casting or resistance
Acumen is the only way
same with many other weapons
I have to agree and disagree. SA options are typically a relection of the alss using the weapon, not the weapon itself. I have never seen an SK using a Sword of Miracles, but it wouldn't suprise me if, in an instance, she opted to give the Magic Power SA in favor of the Acumen. Contrastingly, I Nulker of any type opting for Magic Power over Acumen makes much less sense economically, and stratigically.
But, what SK uses a Sword of Miracles? This is where the point I previously made comes back; not all people are attempting to be the "best" or most efficient. for example, I play to enjoy the game... it is social for me more than competative. I have many friends that I have known for years IRL that enjoy it with me. It is not unlike playing any other game, save that I play it with my pals, and we have a good time. Now, in my case, there are four of us "pals" that all play daily and work hard to be "legit" (another topic ofr another time). and we do this knowing that we will probabably always be a few levels behind the cap, so we make the game fun in other ways. We party all the time, and know each others toons intimately and make a very controlled, efficient dynamic.
This means we can justify making choices that other might find less efficient becouse we are not always dependant on needing to solo, and thus not dependant on having the highest DPS and so on and so forth. I myself play a Shillen Knight, and I myself love the way the SoM looks, its visually stunning to me and has great appeal. I will probably craft one at some point just for th esake of having it becouse it suits my fancy... regardless of the fact that its a grade below me and I have a much omre powerful S grade sword for the daily "grind".
I am not denying that one SA or Weapon choice is unilatteraly better than another at points in the game... but that's just becouse the game is too focused on adding end game content to revive the mid level content it o badly needs. What I am saying however, is that not all people feel the need to make the right, or correct choice in terms of being the next best leet pvp hax.
i have to agree with you and i like to add i am really anoyed when i see ppl writing "previus chronicle was better"!!!!! i know they dont mean it but they just wanna pretend the elite player that knows the games mechink better that the developers ...that he acctually discovered that previus chronicle was better!!!
Prelude and C1 were the best chronicles.... for BH :D
Magic Power-15% mp consumption increase for 167 mattk
Magic Silence-10% chance to cast silence apon using bad magic
Acumen-15% cast speed
Now Lets see why there is really only 1 SA option
...
Acumen is the only way
same with many other weapons
Then you change/improve the gimped SA's to make the weapon more viable for varied use.
Everything "should" in theory, have a purpose and if it doesn't then it "needs" to be altered to have a one... again in theory.
I think that maybe the use of the word "Elitist" here has muddled some people's opinion on what the OP was trying to say. I don't think its intended as an Elite bashing post, nor that common sense and logic in gear choice is a bad thing.
Simply it is about the fact that what content in the game isn't currently actively used is down to the fact the options aren't balanced and this issue should be addressed. The answer isn't "REMOVE REMOVE REMOVE!" (see the multitude of prophet posts for e.g.) but just to re-address and fix, re-balance. There should be a selection of choice in this game, to allow people to play things their own way and not for any one choice to be gimped over the other.
The game is becoming increasingly "choiceless" unless you want to bury your head in the sand and cry "no no Q.Q" just look at S grade onwards, where the core of the player base is now. I don't want to look the same and play the same as the next person beside me who is the same class, the whole point of an MMO is to be able to play with others and expressing individuality is a fun part of this that should be catered for.
I for one, am akin to ValerieRose in that looks is a factor which brings me as much enjoyment out of this game as playing, as despite its age L2 is a beautiful game. Some people might scoff at this idea but that just reflects whats important to the person, there is nothing wrong with either way of thinking.
I'm not adverse to pvp but nor do all my choices swing on it either, thats just how I play from enjoyment in pve as much as pvp.
The sooner we all have viable choice the better. However looking at the content that has been recently added and forward to what is to come, i don't see that happening.
At the end of the day you're actually just saying "I have a happy, optimistic hope for a bright future and anyone who disagrees or doesn't echo that sentiment deserves a tag or name with a negative connotation". You call them "elites".
Actually... that's not what i'm saying at all.
I think that maybe the use of the word "Elitist" here has muddled some people's opinion on what the OP was trying to say. I don't think its intended as an Elite bashing post, nor that common sense and logic in gear choice is a bad thing.
Here's just one example... and a classic one at that:
The multiple threads aimed at killing Prophets... because they have minimal use in end-game parties (mainly due to the fact WC do pretty much the same job but faster) and are only good as boxed buff pets. Why remove them? Why not make them more useful...
The elitist answer to anything that isn't universally used and/or acclaimed is to remove it from the game.
Well, those threads are usually created by people who have Prophets as their mains :rolleyes:
You are just missing a big part of the message. Almost the whole message, tbh.
There are some things that NCsoft, according to their track record so far, is just not able to fix.
Those who state this NCsoft's inability don't do it because they are "elitist"... well, they might be, but not in this particular point. They just have been here long enough to see the track record.
Although there is something common between "you don't need it" and "NCsoft won't fix it" statements... it's called "experience".
Then you change/improve the gimped SA's to make the weapon more viable for varied use.
Everything "should" in theory, have a purpose and if it doesn't then it "needs" to be altered to have a one... again in theory.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Eggy ^_^
You can't squeez blood from a stone, Eggy. NCsoft simply doens't make that a priority. They would rather make a prodcut that they know will sell, than invest the time to make a truly wonderful product... its a consumer's world out there and the money just shows their way will earn them more of it.
To the detail minded among us, sure there are improvements that could make the game for... complete. Or even just more uniform... but NCsoft must go where there money is or there would be no Lineage II at all.
In addition... the team that originally took Lineage II from concept to complete... the first developers, probably had a vision... now, as is the case with most things, many of those designers may have left for "greener pastures" or just a different career and left NCsoft to fill their shoes with newer talent. I am not saying that the new Dev aren't as competent as the originals... but its easy to understand that they may not hive the same goals in mind for Lineage II that their predecesors did, and that just leads to inconsistancies. I.E. What had a perfect purpse in thet original design, no longer does in the design 2, or 3, or 12,487 as may be the case.
You are just missing a big part of the message. Almost the whole message, tbh.
There are some things that NCsoft, according to their track record so far, is just not able to fix.
Those who state this NCsoft's inability don't do it because they are "elitist"... well, they might be, but not in this particular point. They just have been here long enough to see the track record.
Although there is something common between "you don't need it" and "NCsoft won't fix it" statements... it's called "experience".
Although 3 years of play may not match up to most people... i'd still say it's long enough for me to have 'experience' with many issues that are well known amongst the community.
I may indeed have missed your point but you also seem to have missed mine... completely.
The threads about removing prophets arent really suggesting that, well they do but they dont :D
Those threads are more like exaggeration of current prophet status in game to show how bad nckr devs are. And yea, removing PPs would solve lot of things for us PPs, we could choose another class and no more QQs no more dissapointments and it would proly boost WCs and mb other classes. It would actualy solve so many things. But yet we stick with our chars, we keep playing PPs, because we kinda like that class, we just wanna be useful not overlooked etc etc. Those "remove PPs" threads are usualy filled of various suggestions and discussions how to make PPs better which is one of the purposes of those threads.
Although 3 years of play may not match up to most people... i'd still say it's long enough for me to have 'experience' with many issues that are well known amongst the community.
I may indeed have missed your point but you also seem to have missed mine... completely.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Eggy ^_^
Eggy, I'm really not trying to be mean here--but I read your posts as being so fixated on making your point that you aren't listening to anyone else.
The FACT is that NCSoft does not have a good track record from the perspective of NA players. That's not a guess or opinion.
The FACT is that NCSoft has made some major, bone-headed decisions and implemented them to the consternation of even their Korean players! The FACT is that NCSoft has PRIMARY MECHANISMS in place, as fundamental operating systems when working with customers, that are impersonal, unresponsive, and flawed.
So now you want to proclaim "maybe you elitists should shut up and NCSoft will do.....whatever...that will be an improvement!"
You can't honestly expect experienced players to NOT point out in response that the company has some issues in these regards!
If you haven't noticed the disregard for non-Korean customers of this game then quite frankly you haven't been paying attention!
I admire that you are positive and hopeful and seeking solutions. I certainly hope it comes out your way.
But what would I BET on? I'd bet on a pathetic company to continue to behave in a pathetic manner. Other than finance, there is no aspect that I can think of that will cause NCSoft to actually pay attention to you or to us.
As I've said before, I think they are REALLY lucky they have such a great product or the flight would be worse. The product, poorly supported and with no customer service is still worth $15 per month.
But keep your chin up--because at the end of the day the point is rather moot. NCSoft isn't going to listen to your 'elites' asking for PP's to be removed anymore than it's listened to anyone else.
Bluntly: if Koreans ask for PP's to go away then they will. Nothing posted here will influence that decision in the slightest. That's how I see it anyway.
I think that the people that make Walker should buy the rights for Lineage 2 in North America/Europe and manage the game for this market. I'm sure they know the game code quite well and could implement all the changes that could make this a way better game.
Unless, of course as some suspect, NC owns them :p
Agree with first post, everytime i read someone argue something totally logical about class or skills in need for a fix or upgrade or things like that, the post quickly become full of "dont cry", "reset", "do a sublass", "quit the game", and the post creator and anyone who defend it where verbally attacked as noobs, cryers, etc, no matter how true was what they where saying.
Seems to me that the general way of thinking is "my class kills good, so NC is doing well, if someone thinks a class/skill/etc needs a change is a noob"
Jesus, i dont think people pays money every month to do nothing and just go with it (im a bladedancer and i see people who said i HAVE to only give the party 3 dances and then wait in the back doing nothing cause my class cant kill and the party needs me to be alive to redance...so, im paying money to watch others do pvp?).
Maybe we cant do NC to change nothing, but at least people should be a little more undestanding about that problems and not add more wood to the logical dissatisfaction of other players
Eggy, I'm really not trying to be mean here--but I read your posts as being so fixated on making your point that you aren't listening to anyone else.
The FACT is that NCSoft does not have a good track record from the perspective of NA players. That's not a guess or opinion.
The FACT is that NCSoft has made some major, bone-headed decisions and implemented them to the consternation of even their Korean players! The FACT is that NCSoft has PRIMARY MECHANISMS in place, as fundamental operating systems when working with customers, that are impersonal, unresponsive, and flawed.
So now you want to proclaim "maybe you elitists should shut up and NCSoft will do.....whatever...that will be an improvement!"
Drakkos please... You are telling me nothing i do not already know... i am fully aware of the facts but you and many others seem to be misunderstanding the purpose of my post.
Allow me to retort:
I'm not telling anyone to shut up, im not trying to prove a point, im not "proclaiming" anything whatsoever. It was merely a self-observational, self-awareness post illustrating the negative attitude some of us have gained over the years. However the thread seems to have deteriorated in to an endless spiral of confusion.
You can't honestly expect experienced players to NOT point out in response that the company has some issues in these regards!
If you haven't noticed the disregard for non-Korean customers of this game then quite frankly you haven't been paying attention!
This is exactly what i am trying to say... NC is flawed, the game has flaws, we ALL know this.
Fresh players look up to the elitists as peers... they are respected. Elitists also usually have a large following/entourage... they have a LOT of influence and have the power to change peoples perceptions.
People make complaints about issues regarding the game, but instead of supporting the grievances some of us (and it's mainly the elitists) choose to disregard and criticise those opinions because of their own; and I myself have been guilty of this. We have devolved into a mindset that makes us think nothing and no-one will help us, and maybe they won't... but if you're giving up hope for changes and improvements, what kind of example do you think that sets for us as a player-base?
NC has probably given up on us because we have given up on ourselves... and THAT is my issue.
It seems you think i am flaming elitists for being so, when that couldn't be further from the truth.
Drakkos please... You are telling me nothing i do not already know... i am fully aware of the facts but you and many others seem to be misunderstanding the purpose of my post.
Allow me to retort:
I'm not telling anyone to shut up, im not trying to prove a point, im not "proclaiming" anything whatsoever. It was merely a self-observational, self-awareness post illustrating the negative attitude some of us have gained over the years. However the thread seems to have deteriorated in to an endless spiral of confusion.
This is exactly what i am trying to say... NC is flawed, the game has flaws, we ALL know this.
Fresh players look up to the elitists as peers... they are respected. Elitists also usually have a large following/entourage... they have a LOT of influence and have the power to change peoples perceptions.
People make complaints about issues regarding the game, but instead of supporting the grievances some of us (and it's mainly the elitists) choose to disregard and criticise those opinions because of their own; and I myself have been guilty of this. We have devolved into a mindset that makes us think nothing and no-one will help us, and maybe they won't... but if you're giving up hope for changes and improvements, what kind of example do you think that sets for us as a player-base?
NC has probably given up on us because we have given up on ourselves... and THAT is my issue.
It seems you think i am flaming elitists for being so, when that couldn't be further from the truth.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Eggy ^_^
Okay on this one I cannot aggree.
The way you are suing the word "elitists" is contextually incorrect. It is clear to me that your complaint is one against the "veteran" players. I use the word "veteran" lightly becouse it typically just referes to end-game level toons, regardless of their actual skill level.
In any case, Your point abount them being predominantly negative in regard to NCsoft's behavior is correct. But if you feel that they in any way influence the ebb and flow of people comming into or leaving the game itself, than you have placed them on an invisible pedastal that only you can see.
"Veteran" players are often biggots, who reach end-game levels by illegal methods, and illustrate for everyone in Hero chat that they are biggots. IMO "veteran" players are often the type of people who need gratification from others, and thus behave the way they do... when they manage to acheive a success as they see it, and bot or buy their way to end game, they feel great. But when NCsoft alters a small aspect of the game that exposes them for others to see, or removes them from the spotlight, or in some cases just makes them feel less uber, than they QQ here on the boards where it gets them the most attention.
This phenomena can be seen in every aspect of life from games (Lineage II) to pop culture. Look at all the young starlets across the globe who fall into the spotlight and have their momment of glory, and then some scandall takes it back... they always end up in tabloids and on talk shows QQing about it. These are the "veterans" of Lineage II
This is an observation that most people make after about 15 seconds of listening ot Hero chat... or a few solid minutes of browsing the forums here.
I suggeset to simply put them out of your mind, Eggy. No good can come from trying to change their behavior becouse they are resistant to change in every way. They have an insatiable hunger for the spotlight and always will... exposing them or confronting them in anyway will just aggitate them becouse it keeps them for their beloved center-stage. Instead, focus on trying to enjoy the game the way you play it... harbor no regard for the methods other people use and try to linger on the ings that make Lineage II the great game it is...
becouse honestly, if the game were truly as bad as they say... or if they were half as ****** as they prentend to be; they wouldn't be spending they monthly fee to play or keep their forum accounts active...
“Elitism is the belief or attitude that those individuals who are considered members of the elite—a select group of people with outstanding personal abilities, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes—are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.”
You need not to call people elitist if they say "you must wear X armor and you have to use X weapon..." etc.
You need to ask them “why?”
Depending on that answer you may draw your own conclusions
1st on the character of the people answering
2nd on the answer it self
It is only natural in a game with rules (and by that I mean the rules that come from the program of the game itself) for you to be able to maximize your performance if you take into consideration some peripherals you can use.
Thus one can conclude that it is only matter of time before everybody takes the same actions.
Hence the upgrades and patches that change the program.
Then state your opinion and be done with it. You can't speak for anyone, people can only speak for themselves. The amount of people not playing this game due to the elitists in it > the amount of people on this forum trashing the OP. There is a problem like this in this game, you read the forums.
I sort of agree with her on some levels, but I was addressing her saying that people are confused. Those who disagree with her seem to know exactly what she is saying and still disagree. The issue lies in her tone and ability to say what she is trying to say, not the message itself.
I did not say or mean everyone btw, just those who obviously disagree. To say "People like l2" does not imply all people like l2.
I sort of agree with her on some levels, but I was addressing her saying that people are confused. Those who disagree with her seem to know exactly what she is saying and still disagree. The issue lies in her tone and ability to say what she is trying to say, not the message itself.
I did not say or mean everyone btw, just those who obviously disagree. To say "People like l2" does not imply all people like l2.
The thread is useless anyways. These types of players exist in ALL games. There is just a higher proportion in this game because it's a PvP game that attracts those types of personalities.
You're not only using it incorrectly, but you're just plain wrong.
I get that people on this board have some odd desire to see their number of posts reach the quad didgits (I'll never know why, and certainly don't care to myself). But tat is no reason to make a post that people find to be incorrect, and when questioned about it, deny you meant you said.
Words and languages have existsed for a **** long time, and the reasons we call things by their name is becouse that's what they frikken are. Forks are forks, carrots are frikken carrots and so on. In all truth, modern language does NOT leave much for interpretation. What you said is what you said... saying some one didn't understand is akin to saying that they cannot read... its insulting, and child like on your part.
You made a decent point that was about 75% valid and the rest was conext... drop it... end of post. Serriously. Beating a dead horse doesn't make it run. And your constant statements of "you're misunderstanding me" is not just emo, is making this thread into a merri-go-round of derailed topics and ignorant flaming... get over yourself
You're not only using it incorrectly, but you're just plain wrong.
This one made me laugh...
You made a decent point that was about 75% valid
You totally contradict yourself.
Also the post is called Elitist Mentality... and is not about Elitists themselves.
So please Grimaldus, i find your tone very condescending in context... especially for someone which such shocking spelling. This post has about as much to do with my post count as it does to do "forks" and "carrots". Your post made absolutely no point whatsoever and as far as i can see, was a failed attempt to try and bash me purely because you disagree with what i say.
You see this is what forums are for, the ability to openly express opinion is the foundation of these boards... if you don't agree with what i say nor can you appreciate my opinion then im afraid it is YOU that is the child-like and naíve one.
On a side note who exactly was i flaming? The only flames seem to have been coming from your ignorant post. I seem emo? How exactly... you on the other hand seem very very angry. Tell me have i done something to upset you to insight such a hateful post? Not only are you an arrogant fool but you are needlessly confrontational, contradictory, and also completely incorrect.
"you must wear X armor and you have to use X weapon..." etc.
I know what you mean. I still remember someone telling me I *HAD* to hunt in tallum heavy and that my nightmare armor was only good for tanking. You know what? Tallum does not do it for me when I am on my Paladin. I like my red armor. Maybe it is not the best way to do things, but it is MY way.
you're all *********, if you want to play with those who are good at the game expect to be told you suck if you **** up or just suck cause you have ****** gear on. Otherwise you can just hang out in dion or heine all you wan't and noone will care what you do or how you play.
In the end its not about mentality at all, its just that it becomes more important for everyone to carry their own weight. Its not like leveling on a toi floor, if you're gonna do a good hellbound group for example you better have some sgrade armor and 150 weapon or you're gonna be a horrible group member and hold everyone else back. If you cant afford it fine, you just need someone to help you out, but if you do it by choice just because you want to be different then you're being an ******* for bringing down the rest of the group.
Well, yes... if anyone asks me what's best, I will tell them what's best. But then I will also say, for example, that "Although a Tallum Light set is the worst A grade light set, it looks AMAZING on Kamaels and that's why I chose it".
I usually try to give people the options I would choose, be that the "best" or the "most awesome looking one". Cause there might be people out there that won't wear an ugly armor even if it's the best choice heh... I know I am one of them.
tallum light is NOT best looking on kamael
**** elitists always trying to act as if they're right
you're all *********, if you want to play with those who are good at the game expect to be told you suck if you **** up or just suck cause you have ****** gear on. Otherwise you can just hang out in dion or heine all you wan't and noone will care what you do or how you play.
In the end its not about mentality at all, its just that it becomes more important for everyone to carry their own weight. Its not like leveling on a toi floor, if you're gonna do a good hellbound group for example you better have some sgrade armor and 150 weapon or you're gonna be a horrible group member and hold everyone else back. If you cant afford it fine, you just need someone to help you out, but if you do it by choice just because you want to be different then you're being an ******* for bringing down the rest of the group.
edit: wow at this censorship
Making PvE groups doesn't make a player good, and I don't think there are many players in this game that gear their characters horribly just "because they can".
This isn't b.lah. You cannot just use whichever combination of words that come up. Use the knowledge you learned... Be articulate and civil.
Making PvE groups doesn't make a player good, and I don't think there are many players in this game that gear their characters horribly just "because they can".I guess you haven't been in some very poorly constructed PvE groups then. There is definitely an art to it, especially in Hellbound, and those that know how to do it well ... well, let's just say, their groups are sought after since they help you accomplish what you need in the fastest route possible.
This isn't b.lah. You cannot just use whichever combination of words that come up. Use the knowledge you learned... Be articulate and civil.This is a pretty uncivil remark to me. Take your own advice, lol.
PS Yah, leave Valerie alone! She's in it for the fashion and we <3 her.
I guess you haven't been in some very poorly constructed PvE groups then. There is definitely an art to it, especially in Hellbound, and those that know how to do it well ... well, let's just say, their groups are sought after since they help you accomplish what you need in the fastest route possible.
Oh boy ain't that the truth!!
PS Yah, leave Valerie alone! She's in it for the fashion and we <3 her.
<3!
Fashion is where it's at!
And hey, when the most fashionable armor is also the most effective, then it's a plus. Too bad it doesn't happen so very often :( Although for my Necro, the DC robes are pretty AND the "best", but I was too obsessed with the Nightmare robes heheh!
And I'm sorry, I just can't look at my toon if they're wearing ugly clothes just because it's the "best" set. I'm already dreading the fact that if I choose to sub TH, my girl will have to look like she's wearing Karmian (EWWWW) throughout all C Grade, since Plated Leather looks like Karmian for human mystic girls. I think that will even influence my sub choices!! :eek: :D
And I'm sorry, I just can't look at my toon if they're wearing ugly clothes just because it's the "best" set. I'm already dreading the fact that if I choose to sub TH, my girl will have to look like she's wearing Karmian (EWWWW) throughout all C Grade, since Plated Leather looks like Karmian for human mystic girls. I think that will even influence my sub choices!! :eek: :DIMO, no bigger incentive to level into B grade than how ugly those armors look on us!!!! <3
you're all *********, if you want to play with those who are good at the game expect to be told you suck if you **** up or just suck cause you have ****** gear on. Otherwise you can just hang out in dion or heine all you wan't and noone will care what you do or how you play.
In the end its not about mentality at all, its just that it becomes more important for everyone to carry their own weight. Its not like leveling on a toi floor, if you're gonna do a good hellbound group for example you better have some sgrade armor and 150 weapon or you're gonna be a horrible group member and hold everyone else back. If you cant afford it fine, you just need someone to help you out, but if you do it by choice just because you want to be different then you're being an ******* for bringing down the rest of the group.
edit: wow at this censorship
So.. you are saying that being good at sucking is a bad thing?
I noble-subbed TH cuz I like the idea of all the stealth skills and I had a friend that was going to level up with me. Of course, you know he quit. So it was pretty hard to level up on my own at the time, and I ended up using a bow most of the time because it was the "age of the archer".
Now I've 2nd subbed a BD. It's pretty fun, actually. Especially once you get Fury. So my suggestion? Bladedancer. They are easy to get into groups with too, level pretty fast on their own, AND the sub-skill they give you is Celestial Shield Barrier, so that's pretty nice for a Necro.
I noble-subbed TH cuz I like the idea of all the stealth skills and I had a friend that was going to level up with me. Of course, you know he quit. So it was pretty hard to level up on my own at the time, and I ended up using a bow most of the time.
Now I've 2nd subbed a BD. It's pretty fun, actually. Especially once you get Fury. So my suggestion? BD.
I suggest you pick your friends more prudently ^,^
I guess you haven't been in some very poorly constructed PvE groups then. There is definitely an art to it, especially in Hellbound, and those that know how to do it well ... well, let's just say, their groups are sought after since they help you accomplish what you need in the fastest route possible.
No, I have been in some really good PvE groups.
This is a pretty uncivil remark to me. Take your own advice, lol.
PS Yah, leave Valerie alone! She's in it for the fashion and we <3 her.
It's not uncivil at all. It's pretty much common sense. You don't have to take up for you friend. It's okay to use your brain too.
"What the ****. This is bull ****. ************." is not the way to post on this forum. Duh?
It's not uncivil at all. It's pretty much common sense. You don't have to take up for you friend. It's okay to use your brain too.
I think her last sentence defending me had nothing to do with the guy you referred too, also because she was just being silly about my preference for fashion even over the "best" sets (since I wasn't the one using that kind of vocabulary on my post)
Guess you got things confused there a little, although I do agree that some vocabulary should never be used in any case. Just clearing things up since you quoted Armie's reference to me. I'm not sure the guy you referred to is her friend in any way, but... I could be wrong :D
Oh and thanks for the suggestions, Armie and Drakky. I've been tempted to go SH (yes because it's the whole nuking thing that I found out, after 3 years, that I really like), but to be honest, I needed an excuse to use my heavy armors and Tallum Heavy looks REALLY nice on the Female human mystics (there I go with the whole fashion again :D).
I think her last sentence defending me had nothing to do with the guy you referred too, also because she was just being silly about my preference for fashion even over the "best" sets (since I wasn't the one using that kind of vocabulary on my post)
Guess you got things confused there a little, although I do agree that some vocabulary should never be used in any case. Just clearing things up since you quoted Armie's reference to me. I'm not sure the guy you referred to is her friend in any way, but... I could be wrong :D
Oh and thanks for the suggestions, Armie and Drakky. I've been tempted to go SH (yes because it's the whole nuking thing that I found out, after 3 years, that I really like), but to be honest, I needed an excuse to use my heavy armors and Tallum Heavy looks REALLY nice on the Female human mystics (there I go with the whole fashion again :D).
Guess I'll decide in 4 levels!
Firstly, I didn't cut out the part about you. I don't care about you. The statement had nothing to do with you.
Secondly, she was talking about the statement I made to someone she knows; because, he said something along the line of "wow @ censorship" - speaking of his vulgarities being blotted out by the forums. The person is in the same clan as Armenuah, so I use the term friend to refer to him. Nothing to do with you.
Here's the post I replied to:
you're all *********, if you want to play with those who are good at the game expect to be told you suck if you **** up or just suck cause you have ****** gear on. Otherwise you can just hang out in dion or heine all you wan't and noone will care what you do or how you play.
In the end its not about mentality at all, its just that it becomes more important for everyone to carry their own weight. Its not like leveling on a toi floor, if you're gonna do a good hellbound group for example you better have some sgrade armor and 150 weapon or you're gonna be a horrible group member and hold everyone else back. If you cant afford it fine, you just need someone to help you out, but if you do it by choice just because you want to be different then you're being an ******* for bringing down the rest of the group.
edit: wow at this censorship
Civil, articulate posts are not censored at this forum. I have enough post cout, and enough warnings to know this.
Armenuah replied to the statement I made (as a reply to a post made by a clannie of hers). I just didn't cut out the part that refered to you because it frankly doesn't matter to me, and I don't care. Way to be confused, and tell me I'm confusing things.
It's okay tho, we are mean to each other because it's what we do. It's normal human behavior, I promise.
Well, for someone who doesn't care about anyone or anything, you sure give a hoot about your perception of forum etiquette!
I personally prefer a little color in the posts. And sometimes it's even fun to try and figure out which words were censored. In Dinin's post I'm stumped on a couple of them!!
So that you like them to be civil and articulate is just a preference, and one I don't care about :D
And Valerie,.... Yep, that is one of the main reasons I went with BD. The Tallum Heavy looks so awesome on me!! :D and the Full Plate too. Looks like this lovely brown suede skirt. Yep, yep. Good fashion choice! Our clan resident Prada expert, TheFairyTale, even told me how fabulous I look !!!! Go BD :D
Well, Trensharo, I haven't been mean to you cause I really don't like being mean to people. Haven't done anything to you to deserve a trolling, but like you, I don't really care. You should perhaps have edited the part where she talked about me, wouldn't take you too long, perhaps 2 seconds. But you know, laziness is very common.
Now you should maybe choose the people who you "troll". I was agreeing with you in the sense that vulgarities shouldn't be posted in forums. And you trolled me anyway, even though I was AGREEING with you.
Perhaps you should choose who to troll and who not to troll. I've respected a lot of your posts, and took a lot of insight especially when you talk about Necromancers. But your attitude towards me was uncalled for. Cause you're going around claiming that poster wasn't civil and articulate, yet you're being less than civil towards Armenua and myself.
Practice what you preach, perhaps?
+++++++++
Editing to say: Armie, I will take BD into consideration, since there's not any other heavy-armor using class I'd consider (I don't like tanking, I've tried the Gladiator and it got really boring past A grade, and all that). But I truly need an excuse to put my Tallum Heavy and my Kesh*Keshes to use, now that I'm deactivating the account where my Gladiator is.
Trolls troll forums, not people. They make posts and threads intended as flaim bait (like the one I replied to). See Exello in the "Necro- Anchor?" thread for a good example of "trolling".
"This game is dying, just quit" is trolling.
"You're horrible, and lolSPS horrible PvP class" is trolling.
"lolSR" is trolling.
"If you don't want you vulgarities censored, go elsewhere" is not trolling.
"I wasn't talking to you, you don't matter, and I don't care what you think" in response to a poster that misunderstood my post is not trolling.
You completely missed the MEANING of my post, instead, you chose to debate the use of the word just to disagree and cause problems. That's pretty much a Troll to me.
But yeah, you'll just say "You don't care". Good, no one cares about you either so, there you go.
But being uncivil towards other posters AND saying someone else is uncivil is being a hypocrite. You should practice what you preach before criticizing other people, to be honest.
But... for me you're nothing but a forum name who seems to enjoy being nasty to people, even when they agree with you, which not only makes you look foolish, but also makes anything CONSTRUCTIVE that you might have to say be meaningless because you simply fail at social interaction.
All power to you if that makes you happy. I couldn't care less.
I don't really care. I just thought it was pretty childish to use a thousand vulgarities in your post and then complain about "censorship" in an edit.
There you go, being confused.
Im not confused, jeez. I'm pretty clear. It's just apparent u didn't catch that Dinin was just a lil shocked and not QQing. But, I suppose that's nuance and it went right over your head. And Im sure he doesn't need a champion. He's pretty capable guy on his own.
If you don't care, then stop replying. Stop "trolling me"! (Lol)
I didn't read enough of your post to see if you agree'd or not (and still haven't). I do not read posts from people who fail to display an ability to read and understand the posts of others. If your post is based on a misunderstanding, it will painful to read, anyways. Therefore, I let u know that I wasn't talking to you, don't care what you think, and pretty much don't care that you are in the thread; and move on.
It's a healthy compromise for me. Don't want to end up with CPS or eye issues.
Im not confused, jeez. I'm pretty clear. It's just apparent u didn't catch that Dinin was just a lil shocked and not QQing. But, I suppose that's nuance and it went right over your head.
<3 <3 Tren
I know he was shocked, but I don't know why someone would be shocked that vulgar language is censored on the official forums.
I got warnings for trying to use loopholds and l337sp34k to get around it :)
I know it's hard to understand that I actually don't care about things that I am posting/replying to/etc. It's cause I need to get a life.
WTB, fair price.
EDIT: I also think Valarie is taking it a bit too seriously. Chill a bit, it's just a forum, and you can't relay emotions and tone well without the overuse of emoticons sometimes. If you need clarification on something you can always use the PM function to make sure you are not the target of any rebuke.
I'm not taking anything too seriously. As I said, I don't really care. I just think it's funny that you're being completely uncivil to people and yet you're criticizing other people for being uncivil...Yeah, saying "You don't matter, I don't care about you" to anyone, be that a forum, email, telephone, face-to-face, with one hundred emoticons or not, IS NOT being civil towards a person. And no, you haven't hurt me by that, and don't worry, I won't stay up at night cause you've been "mean" to me. You're just a forum name, that's all.
I don't know, I was taught that a behavior like that is hypocrisy. In general I respect your posts, you have a lot of interesting insight most of the time. But the urge to be "mean" is something I can't understand, be that in you or any other poster.
It's like I said, if that makes you happy by the end of the day, go ahead. I just won't have much to say to you otherwise, but I know your answer already: "I don't care".
Pity though, because it doesn't hurt to be nice -shrugs-
Not that it is any of my business... but Tren likes to debate. It isn't really a bad thing, but he will post in areas where there COULD be a debatable discussion, just for the chance at it. We (I think) have argued about things before, but we don't throw a fit over it, it's just a disagreement.
Valerie, I do think you are overreacting. Saying you don't care, calling him a "forum name, that's all" and calling him a hypocrite... are these not "mean" by your standards? You will say no, because you are just saying what you feel, what you see, and having a discussion, but if that was me arguing with him, you would say both of us are being "mean." I don't think I've ever really seen him post something mean before ever. People shouldn't hate each other during a debate, it is just Tren using emotion to try to get the other side to see his way, which is an effective strategy.
Not that it is any of my business... but Tren likes to debate. It isn't really a bad thing, but he will post in areas where there COULD be a debatable discussion, just for the chance at it. We (I think) have argued about things before, but we don't throw a fit over it, it's just a disagreement.
Valerie, I do think you are overreacting. Saying you don't care, calling him a "forum name, that's all" and calling him a hypocrite... are these not "mean" by your standards? You will say no, because you are just saying what you feel, what you see, and having a discussion, but if that was me arguing with him, you would say both of us are being "mean." I don't think I've ever really seen him post something mean before ever. People shouldn't hate each other during a debate, it is just Tren using emotion to try to get the other side to see his way, which is an effective strategy.
Gotta take Val's side on this one.
You may think that being so rude or uncivil that it irritates your opponent into a less comfortable position is a "strategic move" and your correct... if this were a chess game or a battle.
But this is an online forum... its a common area maintained by some one other than ourselves for the free exchange of knowledge, information, and opinions. Not only is being rude extremely immature... on a technical level, it is also prohibited by the forum guidelines.
Stooping the level of name-calling, or refering to another player in a derogatory fashion (noob, etc...) its just the railing of lesser, inadequete people in a public display not unlike a juvenile tantrum.
Also, implying that "strategy" has any impact on a forum topic, or "debate" implies that you want to "win". and there are no winners or loosers in a free exchange of opinions. a simple statement like the one quoted above, though only a few sentances... speaks volumes about its poster, and the parties mentioned wherein.
You may think that being so rude or uncivil that it irritates your opponent into a less comfortable position is a "strategic move" and your correct... if this were a chess game or a battle.
But this is an online forum... its a common area maintained by some one other than ourselves for the free exchange of knowledge, information, and opinions. Not only is being rude extremely immature... on a technical level, it is also prohibited by the forum guidelines.
Stooping the level of name-calling, or refering to another player in a derogatory fashion (noob, etc...) its just the railing of lesser, inadequete people in a public display not unlike a juvenile tantrum.
Also, implying that "strategy" has any impact on a forum topic, or "debate" implies that you want to "win". and there are no winners or loosers in a free exchange of opinions. a simple statement like the one quoted above, though only a few sentances... speaks volumes about its poster, and the parties mentioned wherein.
Debate doesn't imply winning. Where are you getting these word definitions? Debate implies a civil discussion and presentation of different stances/opinions in respect to a subject.
Yes, people like to say they win, but the purpose of a debate is to tell and understand your and other people's stances. It's just that people get butthurt when they are not right. I know I'm not always right, but we all think we are correct, all the time.
It's annoying to read posts based on misconception, and it's even more annoying to read posts filled with misused words like "troll" and "emo". Whether someone agrees with me doesn't matter. I have never posted on these forums in a manner that would lead someone to believe I need 10 other people agreeing with me to be satisfied with my ideas.
Strategy doesn't have anything to do with winning. It can be the process you use to present your ideas and opinions. Sometimes analogies work better than just using layman's terms. Some times being an elitist in a thread called "Elitist Mentality" and causing people to get a bit emotional about it is a good way to show them how it negatively affects other players (when they probably didn't really understand the reprocusions of it beforehand). Strategy & Tactics != I must win. Sometimes they mean, "You'll see, just give me a few minutes."
Continue... blowing my mind.
P.S. You're free to negrep me if you disagree. Just make sure you leave a comment (don't have to sight it, just write something a little comical).
so much forum elitism, I couldn't care less about the word filter. Maybe if I saw it before posting Id go around it but not gonna bother after I already wrote what I had to say. The wow was at how ridiculous it was, some of those words are like things you heard in a playground